NikonGear

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Birna Rørslett on November 07, 2018, 22:02:29

Title: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 07, 2018, 22:02:29
Finally -- very much delayed and awaited -- my first Z system parts arrived. This evening I received the Z7 kit (Z7, 24-70/4, FTZ), and the 35/1.8 S-Line Nikkor. Still awaiting the Z6 and probably in spring 2019, the mighty new Noct 58/0.95.

First observation is that my Foolography GPS unit, as I (hoped|expected) did work flawlessly on the Z7.

Will now scour the internet to find a suitable L-bracket for these camera models.




This is a continuation of the older thread http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,7705.0.html
As people now are getting their Z's, we can contribute actual experiences more than idle speculations

All NG members are welcome to participate, of course
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 07, 2018, 22:05:07
My foolography did not arrive yet...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 07, 2018, 22:08:33
Spoke to Oliver Perialis the CEO of Foolography today. He told me they had been flooded with requests and the last days sent out several thousand of the new 'Unleashed'. Your unit might be there, Frank.

I moved an older model, Dx00'09, from one of my Nikons just to test whether it worked on the Z7. Which it did without any issues. Thus, now my camera has seen its first modification, as one part of the rubber gasket on the left hand side has been cut away for the GPS device.

Also threw away the hot shoe cover thingie. Another small step in the direction of a personal camera set up.

Now, time to cue suitable music and find a comfortable chair. The manual is thick.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Erik Lund on November 08, 2018, 01:50:48
Congratulations  ;)  enjoy! We are all looking forward to hear and see your findings good and bad  ;)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 08, 2018, 14:24:23
The Z7 is like most new Nikons -- an enjoyable piece of camera gear. Although the menu system is pretty extensive, the basic functions are easily configured and one is ready for actual shooting very quickly indeed.

A quick trip to deliver my little red Peugeot to the repair facility this morning produced some photos as "collateral damage". Morning hours are very dark this time of the year, so I just pushed the release and hoped for the best.

Z7, 35/1.8 (everything on "A"). This lens is very sharp and quite light weight to boot.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Airy on November 08, 2018, 14:32:46
Very crisp rendering indeed (settings ?).
I was surprized to see the results with the Noct. Although the lens was clearly the resolution-limiting factor, using it with the Z7 seemed to improve things slighlty. Of course, camera settings (such as sharpening) could have been tweaked; I could not check, not knowing where to look in my short experimentation time. A pity I could take the XQD card for further scrutiny.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 08, 2018, 14:37:48
A few tidbits of observations.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on November 08, 2018, 14:44:37
After using the Z7 for 5 weeks, it is the focus by wire as implemented in the S-line lenses that bothers me most. The speed-dependent, non-linear (and jittery) MF operation just does not work for me. It is not that focus by wire cannot be done properly; for example the Sony GM lenses have a much better focus by wire implementation by means of linear behaviour (like mechanical lenses) and properly damped focus rings. Also, the Sony A7rIII EVF is much faster in magnified mode, a boon for MF work. (I know, the Sonys have some issues too but that is outside the scope of this thread).

Second thing I don't like is working with a single adapter, it makes changing lenses when both Z-mount and F-mount lenses are used in combination with a single FTZ adapter much more cumbersome. The solution is either to buy more adapters (one for each f-mount lens) or to go back to the D850 body for F-lenses. I did the last.

I am on the second 35/1.8S now, the first one had a bad right edge at far (infinity) distances.


Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 08, 2018, 14:59:22
To be frank, I think love for the S-line Nikkors will be an acquired taste for anyone familiar with the old Nikkors. The new lenses are excellent optical designs, no doubt about that, but at the same time they are a little - let's point the finger on the issue - a tad soulless. They deliver crisp and sharp images and produce few surprises of their own. The casing is slick, non-personal, and similar to the design of so many other contemporary lenses. The focusing action., if done by MF, is not perfect if you work with gloves as there is too little friction on the focusing ring itself. Whether the plastic shells are resistant to knocks and bumps only time will tell.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 08, 2018, 15:06:01
... and I still await the new Noct 58/0.95. S-line design, or not.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 08, 2018, 15:44:15
A few tidbits of observations.

  • the 2.1 cm f/4 Nikkor will *not* mount to the FTZ adapter. In essence good as this prevents a destruction of the adapter.
  • the various old fisheyes with long rear ends will all mount and work well. Tried with 7.5/5.6, 8/8, 10/5.6 OP. No more "fooling" the reflex mirror!
  • non-AI lenses such as the 50/2 will mount and operate properly. This implies a new spring for the oldest Nikkors.

I'm honestly very excited by this last statement.  I am anxious to get the Z6 and try out my MF Nikkors on it. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 08, 2018, 15:55:51
The time to get those nice old Nikkors whilst they are cheap is *now*.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: simato73 on November 08, 2018, 16:03:53
Judging from what I can read (but have not been following very carefully), if the Z-series Nikon mirrorless had arrived four years ago, I probably would have not switched to Fuji, but I have now reached a state of "good enough" and am not that interested in more purchases, including of Fuji gear.
Unless I win the lottery and have cash to burn, it is now late.

Having said that, I hope to have the opportunity to see the Z6-7 in the flesh at a future NG get-together.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 08, 2018, 16:05:38
The latter wish is my command.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on November 08, 2018, 16:13:43
Judging from what I can read (but have not been following very carefully), if the Z-series Nikon mirrorless had arrived four years ago, I probably would have not switched to Fuji, but I have now reached a state of "good enough" and am not that interested in more purchases, including of Fuji gear.
Unless I win the lottery and have cash to burn, it is now late.


The Fuji's with the right lenses attached are still smaller and lighter compared to any other 24x36mm ILC (except the Leica). For this reason I kept the X-Pro 2 with both 23/2 and 50/2. The other Fuji stuff had to go.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 08, 2018, 17:09:53
I think winning the lottery is a good idea and meeting NG in Scotland is another great idea. I hope I can join you in may if work and construction site allow. I am interested in the Z6 performance.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 08, 2018, 20:50:36
I haven't won the Lottery for decades, yet here it is: the Z7. Seen with the FTZ adapter and the mighty 105 mm f/1.4 Nikkor, a combination that actually handles -- and balances -- very nicely. AF is on the slower side with this combination, but the very low light levels under testing probably didn't help. Focus was spot on, though.

To put things in perspective, the L-bracket for my Olympus E-M1.2 is very nearly a perfect fit for the Z7. The Z7 is the same width as the Olympus m43, but the body is a tad thicker and the viewfinder a bit fatter due to the FX coverage.

The small Foolography GPS unit (lifted temporarily from a Df until my new unit arrives) plugs into the USB port and does the job of plying the camera with GPS data without any problem at all.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on November 08, 2018, 21:17:56
Very promising combination
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on November 09, 2018, 05:51:25
An Olympus E-M1.2 eh?  :o   I did not realise that you also had one of these machines from the dark side (yep, I have one as well and I also have the older E-M1 Mk 1).

Is your L-Bracket for the Olympus the two piece unit from RRS?  In searching for Olympus E-M1.2 L-Brackets, it is the only one that appeals to me.  How have you found yours?

..........................................................

To put things in perspective, the L-bracket for my Olympus E-M1.2 is very nearly a perfect fit for the Z7. The Z7 is the same width as the Olympus m43, but the body is a tad thicker and the viewfinder a bit fatter due to the FX coverage.
..........................................................
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on November 09, 2018, 07:48:30
Some interesting things about the Z7 to be found on the site of Jim Kasson:

https://blog.kasson.com

Among various things a comparison between fully mechanical and EFC shutter w.r.t. vibration.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 09, 2018, 08:14:32
An Olympus E-M1.2 eh?  :o   I did not realise that you also had one of these machines from the dark side (yep, I have one as well and I also have the older E-M1 Mk 1).

Is your L-Bracket for the Olympus the two piece unit from RRS?  In searching for Olympus E-M1.2 L-Brackets, it is the only one that appeals to me.  How have you found yours?

I got the Olympus and the 7-14/2.8 lens for an underwater housing. Needed something "smaller" for my current project, which involves a lot of (air) travel. The camera works for the intended purpose, but otherwise I'm not particular smitten by it, to be honest, and the image quality leaves somewhat to be desired as well.

The L-bracket isn't RRS, but is in two pieces. Actually I got it on the whim that I might be using the Olympus system also for general photography, but any such thoughts were quickly put to rest once the Nikon Z6/Z7 were announced.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on November 09, 2018, 08:45:39
Thanks Birna.

Sadly the RRS bracket wasn't available when I was buying, so the two piece bracket that I am using is marketed here as a ProMaster L-Bracket.  The side portion of the ProMaster has not been well designed in respect of either the fold our rear screen or access to the four connection sockets/ports on the left hand side of the body, so I often leave my side portion detached.

The 7-14mm f/2.8 lens seems to be getting a lot of indifferent reviews.  I have used one and it certainly has quite ugly distortion around the edges, so I went with the 9-18mm instead.

I got the Olympus and the 7-14/2.8 lens for an underwater housing. Needed something "smaller" for my current project, which involves a lot of (air) travel. The camera works for the intended purpose, but otherwise I'm not particular smitten by it, to be honest, and the image quality leaves somewhat to be desired as well.

The L-bracket isn't RRS, but is in two pieces. Actually I got it on the whim that I might be using the Olympus system also for general photography, but any such thoughts were quickly put to rest once the Nikon Z6/Z7 were announced.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 11, 2018, 22:16:27
Now, back to the camera under scrutiny.

One reason I got the Z7 was to use it for macro work. A good start is exploring how it copes with photomacrographic lenses and auxiliary devices.

A potentially useful gadget for low-magnification work in the field with hand-held camera is a short-focal dedicated 'macro' lens in conjunction with a ring flash. Not the type of gear normally used for creative work, perhaps, but an indispensable tool for documentary  stuff.

I have used the old Olympus OM 38mm f/2.8 lens combined with the Nikon SB-21 ring flash for decades. The AS-14 controller for the ring flash can operate in M or TTL mode and the latter option hasn't been available since the opening of the DSLR era. No practical issue as using M with the AS14 and judiciously playing with the various settings on the ring flash itself allows for sufficient control of exposure (after a little practice ...).

Here is a snapshot of the photomacrographic setup on the Z7. I used the camera hand-held and as one can see from the 100% crop, results of this technique are excellent as the old lens is no slouch with the high pixel count of the Z7.

(images straight off the camera, no sharpening)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 11, 2018, 22:24:34
With the above-mentioned setup, the EVF no longer functioned well as the projected image gets very dark. One can increase the output of the rear LCD panel, but this makes for a rather tiresome and eye-straining exercise in the longer run. If lighting is predominately fluorescent some flickering is hard to avoid. This issue normally is no problem with ordinary use of the Z7 and its EVF or rear screen.

For optical viewfinders one could rely on the astonishing ability of the eye to accommodate low light, thus with proper focusing technique, focusing at high magnification was not too problematic. The EVF works differently as it increases gain instead and hence there is a point where the image in the finder simply breaks down in a sea of noise and no useful information can be gleaned.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 11, 2018, 23:23:04
Over to another field -- again.

One of the really exciting news of the Z system launch was the mighty Noct 58mm f/0.95 Nikkor S-line. I have pre-ordered it, as it would compliment the Nocts I already own (AI and AIS versions).

I have to make do with my "old" Nocts for now, but since this time of the year is really dark in my country, putting a Noct (+ FTZ) on the Z7 was mandatory. I'm pleased to say this combination handled very well and focusing via the EVF was quick and easy. Moving the zoom magnification feature to one or both of the front function buttons added to the ease of getting pin-point sharpness with the fast Noct -- even if it is "only" f/1.2.

Nikon Z7, Noct-Nikkor 58 mm f/1.2  @f/1.2, 400 ISO

Depth-of-field is very shallow even at this distance (around 10m), but the beautiful bokeh allows the transition to unsharp areas be very gentle.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 12, 2018, 12:12:30
Nikon always publishes a list of incompatible lenses for their new cameras (my manual has these listed on p. 223, but the actual page might differ between nationalities).

Once again, the list is a curious mixture of fact and fiction and I have this suspicion the text writers simply do a copy-paste from previous manuals?

In the case of the Z6/Z7 and the FTZ adapter, the usual stated exceptions for the older fisheye lenses (7.5/5,6, 8/8, 10/5.6 OP) no longer are valid. All of them mounts to the FTZ and work perfectly. The same applies to 200-600/9.5, the older 50/2, 180-600/8, 360-1200/11, 35/2.8 PC (first version), 200/5.6 Medical, the lens heads using CU or AU-1 focusing adapter, and so forth. A very few of the oldest pre-AI Nikkors might encounter problems if their aperture ring is too thick.

The vintage 2.1cm f/4 really is incompatible, as stated on the Nikon list, and fortunately will not mount at all on the FTZ. The older 5.5cm/3.5 Micro-Nikkor will mount, but not focus any further than approx. 2m due to its unusual rear lip design. 

The K2 extension ring is on the incompatible list, whilst strangely the K1 isn't. Both can be mounted to the FTZ, however the fit is very tight and one should likely trim each of these a tad to ensure they would not chafe on the CPU contacts in the adapter mount.

AF or AFD lenses with 'screwdriver' focusing will meter via the FTZ, but there is no AF since the mechanical linkage is no longer present.

Seen as a whole, Nikon has done a remarkably good job of keeping the famed backwards compatibility with the F-mount legacy.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 12, 2018, 13:01:12
I was very curious about the ability of the new Z system to use GPS recording. Medium-high end Nikons, with very few exceptions, have catered for this feature since the early 2000's. Being a botanist the capability to record geo-coordinates automatically and embedded in the file eXIF has been indispensable and all my Nikons (plus the Fuji S5Pro) have GPS devices attached to them.  However, at the European Z launch in London, UK earlier this year, none of the Nikon reps apparently were aware of any such feature. I examined the ports of the Z cameras and found the similar USB port as on my Df. After pestering higher-ranked reps afterwards I received an evasive statement to the effect, 'yes, we believe Z7 supports GPS" (but we don't know)'.

Later, at Photokina in September this year I spoke to Mr. Oliver Perialis, the CEO of Foolography, a Berlin-based company specialising in GPS devices for Nikons (and, more recently, Canon), and he told me they had tried their device briefly on a Z camera and it worked. Great news. I immediately ordered a module for my pre-ordered Z6/Z7.

Reading through the entire Reference manual  (pdf downloaded from Nikon), I think now I understand why Nikon has been so evasive. Their camera indeed has GPS support, as always, but their own GPS module has been discontinued!

Under Technical Notes in the Reference Manual p. 412, I found the following

When connected to the camera
accessory terminal, existing GP-1/GP-1A units can be
used to record the current latitude, longitude, altitude,
and UTC (Universal Coordinated Time) with pictures
taken with the camera. Note that production of GP-1/
GP-1A units has ended


How very Nikonesque.

For the record: the Foolography module (Dx000'09) plugged directly into the USB port of my Z7 and delivered GPS data to the EXIF seamlessly. No need for any special configuration.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on November 12, 2018, 13:41:06
The Foolography website leaves the impression that they now only sell the new Unleashed product, to be connected to a smartphone.

I only need the camera's internal Bluetooth to connect with a GPS mouse, and I only need my smartphone to behave like a very reliable Bluetooth GPS mouse.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 12, 2018, 13:46:34
They still sell the older product.

Even with the new 'Unleashed', you don't need using it through a smartphone app. Any compatible BT unit sending out NMEA data will do.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 12, 2018, 14:42:56
has someone here been delivered an "Unleashed"???
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 12, 2018, 14:50:42
I ordered the older model as I don't need the bells and whistles accompanying the new product.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 12, 2018, 15:20:23
By the way, here is proof that Nikon's list of "incompatible"  lenses is in error. Taken with the 400mm f/4.5 Nikkor-Q and the AU-1 focusing adapter, a combination on the official no-no list.The lens is tack sharp, but its age is shown by the chromatic aberrations fortunately most of which are dealt with by Photo Ninja.

View from my veranda. I no longer live in the city :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 15, 2018, 22:02:34
I spent a bleak and soaking wet November days shooting the new 35/1.8 Nikkor S-line on my Z7. I do not like some of the handling details of this, or the other S-line designs, as the casing is pretty slick and tend to offer too little firm grip when lenses are changed. Nikon could do well to look back  (in anger) at the [chrome] mounting rings of the older Nikkors, which in this respect were far superior.

I shot only in AF modes) whilst trying to come to grips with all the new AF modes this camera has to offer. Suffice it to say that towards the day I still struggled although AF results started to get closer to my intended outcome. I probably have yo yield and read the manual. Sigh.

Also found out while the idea of using the rear screen not only for monitoring but draw on its touch-screen capability to focus and take a picture by point-and-tap sounded great, the introduced movement of the camera and lowering of image quality was quite evident.

AF focusing was very quick at daytime with the 35 lens when I got everything right, however as darkness descended the focusing became noticeably slower.

The new 35/1.8 Nikkor is a very good performer of anyone should doubt this. Here is a snapshot of Mari, one of the nice shop hands of Interfoto, my main photo gear dealer. This impromptu image was taken with the 35/1.8 at f/3.5, 1/25 sec, ISO 800, and basically coming straight off the camera. White balance is auto from the camera, no later change. For a wide-angle, this is really good performance in my book. The bad lighting and the slow shutter speed are not conducive to top image quality I'd surmise.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 15, 2018, 22:30:36
Other tidbit of information is I now have been allocated a Z6 so that camera will arrive in the not too-distant future. The Nikon rep I spoke to had noticed my annoyance of being at the rear end of the delivery queue for the Z7 thus probably wanted to improve our relationship? I appreciated that gesture.

Perhaps even more importantly, I spoke to my Nikon repair tech and had him order a handful of factory spare Z bayonets. For once the spare prices weren't that bad. The Dremel era is not over by the arrival of the Z models. I plan on modifying a lot of the exotics in my cupboards for use on a Z body. With some luck these parts arrive within a few weeks.

I did go through the spare parts diagram and drawings of all parts of the Z7 together  with my repair tech, but all pages were watermarked as 'secret' by Nikon thus I couldn't copy them despite the temptation to do so.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 15, 2018, 23:10:00
A few more examples with the 35/1.8 + Z7 package from downtown Oslo today. 800 ISO and camera run on auto everything. These are jpgs delivered by the Z7. No change except for downsizing to fit the NG pages plus setting the profile to sRGB.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on November 15, 2018, 23:42:07
A few more examples with the 35/1.8 + Z7 package from downtown Oslo today. 800 ISO and camera run on auto everything. These are jpgs delivered by the Z7. No change except for downsizing to fit the NG pages plus setting the profile to sRGB.

The first image looks amazing with both the sky and the tiny light bulbs (LEDs?) are exposed correctly with the light bulbs retaining their incandescent color.

The colors of the sign in the second image looks impressive.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 15, 2018, 23:52:03
The quality of the 35/1.8S holds up for close-ups too.

f/3.5, 1/25 sec, 800  ISO, windy.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 00:03:27
I was amazed of the amount of image detail retained by hand-held exposures around 1/6-1/8 sec with the 35/1.8 S Nikkor.

This is from the Central Station, Oslo. 800 ISO and f/4, 1/8 sec. Direct jpg from camera, just downsampled and converted to sRGB. Everything on automatic.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Wally on November 16, 2018, 02:03:22
Other tidbit of information is I now have been allocated a Z6 so that camera will arrive in the not too-distant future. The Nikon rep I spoke to had noticed my annoyance of being at the rear end of the delivery queue for the Z7 thus probably wanted to improve our relationship? I appreciated that gesture.

Just received confirmation that my Z6 ships in the next few hours (California time). FYI I ordered within the first 3 hours after orders were accepted.
Can't wait  ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on November 16, 2018, 05:37:26
Excellent! I just ordered a 35 f/1.8 DX, I'm anxious to see how it renders on my D7200.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bill De Jager on November 16, 2018, 06:23:49
Birna, Lloyd Chambers has reported significant focus shift (https://diglloyd.com/blog/2018/20181019_1634-NikonZ30f1_8S-aseries-SageAspenAndWaterfall.html) with this lens.  Do you have any thoughts or observations on this matter?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on November 16, 2018, 07:01:03
The first of the Z6 bodies are due here in Melbourne today. 

Most high street Melbourne shops now seem to have Z7's, FTZ's, and the 24-70mm & 35mm Z type lenses.

Just received confirmation that my Z6 ships in the next few hours (California time). FYI I ordered within the first 3 hours after orders were accepted.
Can't wait  ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 09:01:00
Birna, Lloyd Chambers has reported significant focus shift (https://diglloyd.com/blog/2018/20181019_1634-NikonZ30f1_8S-aseries-SageAspenAndWaterfall.html) with this lens.  Do you have any thoughts or observations on this matter?

Haven't seen anything of the sort. The images so far have been crisply focused precisely as intended.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on November 16, 2018, 10:49:31
The Z7 normally focusses at the selected aperture from wide-open until f/5.6, so in typical use focus shift should not be an issue. Only when the aperture is changed after focussing it might become an issue.
I specifically checked my own 35/1.8S  for focus shift, and don't see anything that I would call significant.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 11:23:42
Just did a few tests in which I focused at a small aperture and shot wide open, and vice versa. No change in focus as far as I could ascertain, with the caveat these were images in the not so distant range. If the opportunity arises I might rerun the exercise for landscapes as well.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on November 16, 2018, 11:34:00
Lloyd Chambers reported that his 35/1.8S had a bad left side; I wouldn't trust conclusions about focus shift from that lens.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 11:36:13
Lloyd Chambers reported that his 35/1.8S had a bad left side; I wouldn't trust conclusions about focus shift from that lens.

Could well be related issues. My copy of the 35/1.8S is sharp into the corners at f/1.8, and with negligible field curvature to boot.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on November 16, 2018, 11:45:15
My copy of the 35/1.8S is sharp into the corners at f/1.8, and with negligible field curvature to boot.

My second copy has the same behaviour, sharp into the corners at f/1.8 including landscape distance (my first copy had a bad right side at landscape distance).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 16, 2018, 13:01:20
My foolography did not arrive yet...

Frank: contact Foolography directly, do not use the forum for suchlike stuff

feel free to delete this. I am frustrated. already lost 1000€ on the bankrupt Meyer Optic Görlitz this year
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 14:47:13
Five axis of stabilisation is no guarantee for sharp images ... from a sequence on fake christmas trees which populate the city at present.

Shutter speeds varied from 1/20 to 1/40 sec, some came out perfect, others were -- well  -- not so sharp :D

Z7, 35/1.8 S, 800 ISO, VR on, jpgs from camera unaltered except downsizing/cropping and a change to sRGB for display. No sharpening.

Note to self (added): apparently, mirrorless cameras are no guarantee against my usual -1.5 degree of camera tilt either...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on November 16, 2018, 15:37:23
Oh dear - I too often have this issue.  I have resorted to programming one of the buttons on my cameras to display the levels (i.e. where the camera offers an electronic spirit level capability).

I have often wondered why manufacturers do not record the angle of tilt in the EXIF data so we can easily correct the tilt in each image where it is not desired.

.....................................................................

Note to self (added): apparently, mirrorless cameras are no guarantee against my usual -1.5 degree of camera tilt either...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 15:58:54
Oh dear - I too often have this issue.  I have resorted to programming one of the buttons on my cameras to display the levels (i.e. where the camera offers an electronic spirit level capability).

I have often wondered why manufacturers do not record the angle of tilt in the EXIF data so we can easily correct the tilt in each image where it is not desired.


I do the rotation in Photo Ninja - just plug in the "correct" angle and all is well. I'm surprisingly consistent as the numerical correction ranges from -1.3 to -1.6 degrees. I tried the level indicator in the finder as this feature is available of many of my cameras, but it bothers me more than helps.  For tripod shooting the level can be helpful, though.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 16:06:19
Another example of the manner in which the Z7 handles massive contrasts and mixed light sources. This is an advertising billboard with built-in backlight contrasting the dull, wet and bleak streets surrounding it. Advertising is for a skiing holiday in the Norwegian mountains, which could be an escape from the grim reality of today. However sufficient snow in those alpine regions will not be present for months?

Focusing this scene was a breeze with the easily moveable AF points on the Z7. Jpgs as before.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Airy on November 16, 2018, 17:04:18
I do the rotation in Photo Ninja - just plug in the "correct" angle and all is well. I'm surprisingly consistent as the numerical correction ranges from -1.3 to -1.6 degrees. I tried the level indicator in the finder as this feature is available of many of my cameras, but it bothers me more than helps.  For tripod shooting the level can be helpful, though.

All my Nikon cameras display a view in the OVF that is tilted compared with reality. This becomes apparent when keeping both eyes open (which I often do). Quite annoying.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 16, 2018, 18:15:17
Well....good news....NikonUSA charged my credit card this morning for my Z6.   Just waiting for the website to get updated order/tracking information.

Unless they ship it overnight (I highly doubt it), I'm guessing the Z6 and 24-70/4S should be in my hands Monday or Tuesday of next week.

/EXCITED!!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bill De Jager on November 16, 2018, 19:12:02
Haven't seen anything of the sort. The images so far have been crisply focused precisely as intended.

Thank you, Birna.  Whatever the idiosyncracies of the very first Z models may be, to me the lenses are a larger concern.  Bodies are refreshed much more often than lenses.  Past shortcomings with bodies have often been corrected in later models, which is why I purchased a D810 rather than a D800.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 19:34:01
Well....good news....NikonUSA charged my credit card this morning for my Z6.   Just waiting for the website to get updated order/tracking information.

Unless they ship it overnight (I highly doubt it), I'm guessing the Z6 and 24-70/4S should be in my hands Monday or Tuesday of next week.

/EXCITED!!

Do feel free to contribute to this thread when you lay hands on your own Z camera, Andrew. The more input the better.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 16, 2018, 20:07:02
Do feel free to contribute to this thread when you lay hands on your own Z camera, Andrew. The more input the better.

I’ve been told I’ll have one on Monday - with the kit zoom. Looking forward to testing and publishing findings.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 20:15:57
So do we all.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 16, 2018, 20:24:42
Do feel free to contribute to this thread when you lay hands on your own Z camera, Andrew. The more input the better.

Absolutely.  I plan on putting the Z kit up against the D750 with 24-70/2.8G, then running the Z with the FTZ and all the lenses I have that will mount on the adapter.   Might take me a few days to do it all justice, but I will get there!  :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on November 16, 2018, 20:29:59
Excellent! I just ordered a 35 f/1.8 DX, I'm anxious to see how it renders on my D7200.

Oooops, I ordered a G lens. not an S, my error.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 20:39:06
Still should  be an excellent performer.

Compatibility F vs Z systems is unidirectional. F lenses can be used on Z via the FTZ or similar adapters, whilst Z lenses have far too short register distance to be on the F range. Besides, the electronics employed are widely different. Basically Z lenses are 'E' type i.e. aperture is operated electronically.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on November 16, 2018, 21:17:03
Still should  be an excellent performer.

Compatibility F vs Z systems is unidirectional. F lenses can be used on Z via the FTZ or similar adapters, whilst Z lenses have far too short register distance to be on the F range. Besides, the electronics employed are widely different. Basically Z lenses are 'E' type i.e. aperture is operated electronically.

I had been looking into the 35 G prior to ordering for my D7200 and D200, so I had 35mm on the brain! When I saw your posts where you were using a 35mm, I glossed over the fact that you were talking about an S model, and responded, which was not exactly on topic WRT to your posts.  :-[
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on November 16, 2018, 22:24:33
Another tidbit: the Z7 shutter is limited in EFCS (Electronic Front Curtain Shutter) mode, shortest speed is 1/2000s. This in contrast to the D850 which goes all the way to 1/8000s. Seems a little unpractical, but bokeh is known to suffer in EFCS mode at shutter speeds shorter that 1/1000 - 1/2000s. So it can be seen as a kind of protection, intentionally implemented or not.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 16, 2018, 22:28:29
This "limitation" brings one back to the glorious time of the Nikon F2
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Øivind Tøien on November 16, 2018, 22:56:38

Yes, in those times 1/2000s was cutting edge.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on November 16, 2018, 23:36:43
I enjoy my faint memories of FM2 days on my current D750.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 17, 2018, 14:23:10
My daughter is playing her harp. AFS 105/1.4 0+ FTZ + Z7, 3200 ISO, f/1.4. jpgs straight off the camera as before, everything on auto. She is highly focused on the challenge at hand.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 18, 2018, 12:22:54
The in-camera VR of the Z models extends the acceptable range of slow shutter speeds to pretty amazing figures with the hand-held camera. With the 24-70/4S I got consistently  sharp images to 1/6 sec and occasionally even to 1/4 or 1/3 sec.

This is from a test sequence of my book shelf (my flimsy excuse for the test target: early Sunday morning, a wet blanket of fog in combination with near-zero temperature makes the outside unattractive, and my coffee tastes better here in my living room). Hand-held Z7, 24-70/4S, f/4.5, 1/6 sec, 1000ISO. As before, jpgs straight off the camera. No sharpening.

Entire frame and 100% crop.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on November 18, 2018, 12:40:54
Amazing sharpness, you have a steady hand ;)
This would not have been possible without help from the VR
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on November 18, 2018, 12:50:09
Aaah... Arrakis and the Spice...  ;D (giving credit to the sharpness )!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 18, 2018, 12:52:00
Amazing sharpness, you have a steady hand ;)
This would not have been possible without help from the VR
My hands are notoriously unsteady -- long term use of asthma medication ensures that.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 18, 2018, 13:47:22
Now, putting my AFS 200/2 VR through its paces in the same manner as the 24-70/4S. The wet foggy blanket is about to lift, thus shutter speeds were "fast" around 1/10 sec.

Entire frame and 100% crop. Hand-held Z7, AFS 200/2 VR, f/4.5, 1/10 sec, 1000 ISO. Jpgs straight off camera, no additional anything except for a change to sRGB and downsizing (entire frame). Due to the details of the 100% crop I had to reduce jpg quality from the usual 12 to level 10, so keep that factoid in mind when looking at the outcome.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on November 18, 2018, 13:56:44
The VR surely works as advertised :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 18, 2018, 14:01:12
The VR surely works as advertised :)

I reached the similar conclusion myself.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 18, 2018, 15:51:23
I enjoy my faint memories of FM2 days on my current D750.

my FM2 did 1/4000 s and 1/250 s flash sync
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 18, 2018, 15:52:43
My hands are notoriously unsteady -- long term use of asthma medication ensures that.

very impressive VR performance when needed.

I fight with subject movement currently.

Looking forward for Z6 findings
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on November 18, 2018, 19:20:15
my FM2 did 1/4000 s and 1/250 s flash sync

Strictly speaking, that is FM2n.  The flash sync speed of the original FM2 was 1/200 sec., which is exactly the same spec as that of D750.   ::)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 18, 2018, 19:42:39
Already ordered the new Markins L-bracket for the Z models. Today, added this for the FTZ:

https://www.photoproshop.com/Kamerazubehoer/Kamera-L-Winkel/Nikon/Markins-Kamerawinkel-Nikon-FTZ.html

In case I decide to use the Z6/7 on tripods ... I will get another FTZ adapter with the upcoming Z6, thus intend to have one of the FTZ adapters with an L mounted permanently, the other without.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on November 18, 2018, 21:45:02
I have tried the z7 in a shop in Madrid with the 24-70 and 50mm 1.4g with ftz adapter. I was very happy with what I felt. I´m still on the list for a z6 and should get it withing 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: longzoom on November 18, 2018, 23:02:47
very impressive VR performance when needed.

I fight with subject movement currently.

Looking forward for Z6 findings
If you have 70-200E, or any G2 2.8 lens, you will realize immediately that your lens is outresolving  Z6 sensor, what is not in case with Z7. Nothing wrong with that, as for me, but your opinion may vary. LZ
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 19, 2018, 09:06:47
If you have 70-200E, or any G2 2.8 lens, you will realize immediately that your lens is outresolving  Z6 sensor, what is not in case with Z7. Nothing wrong with that, as for me, but your opinion may vary. LZ

I have my D850 for high res shooting.
Currently I use my Fuji X100T for silent pic aquisition in churches, theatres or concerts
The 24MP Z6 should outperform the D5 in high ISO  and surely outperforms her in silent shooting
the X100T will be outperformed for sure
most of my lenses outresolve the D850 at ISO 1800, not so much at ISO 64

My interest in the Z6 is
... small package
... highest ISO
... silent shooting

Even if I had a Zoom and not only top notch prime lenses I would not be tempted to use it on a Zx

I might be tempted to use the 1.4/105 at ISO 100k and f/1.4 in a theatre or church to show things difficult to show because of low light levels
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on November 19, 2018, 12:02:12

I might be tempted to use the 1.4/105 at ISO 100k and f/1.4 in a theatre or church to show things difficult to show because of low light levels

But how would you focus? For low light shooting, CDAF in mirrorless is important, and Nikon Z do not use CDAF when adapted lenses are in use, only PDAF.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 19, 2018, 12:24:25
But how would you focus? For low light shooting, CDAF in mirrorless is important, and Nikon Z do not use CDAF when adapted lenses are in use, only PDAF.

Push the shutter release half down, or use AF-ON. Works with the 105/1.4 AFS even under very low light. Maybe the AF action isn't setting any speed record, but it hits the mark as it were and fairly quickly too.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 19, 2018, 12:36:58
But how would you focus? For low light shooting, CDAF in mirrorless is important, and Nikon Z do not use CDAF when adapted lenses are in use, only PDAF.

even if I do not use AF I might highlight the sharp edges on screen and use live view on a tripod. I hope that the highlighting works in the EVF too then I can MF in a theatre
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 19, 2018, 12:40:30
Try the combination Frank, you might be positively surprised.

For what it's worth, tried the edge highlights and preferred other approaches to getting accurate focus.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 19, 2018, 12:41:39
Lest Jakov should be disappointed, here is the 100mm f/1.6 Rodenstock on the Z7.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 19, 2018, 13:10:56
Just got a text message from my Nikon repair tech that the spare Z bayonets I ordered only a few days ago already arrived today ... that was really fast! Nikon to the rescue :D

I'll pick up these Z spares tomorrow and start experimenting with some of the stranger exotica floating around here. Should be much fun to be had.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on November 19, 2018, 14:41:53
Push the shutter release half down, or use AF-ON. Works with the 105/1.4 AFS even under very low light. Maybe the AF action isn't setting any speed record, but it hits the mark as it were and fairly quickly too.

In lighting conditions where using f/1.4 one requires ISO 102400 to get an acceptable exposure? I find that difficult to believe that there would be reliable focusing under such circumstances. Of course it also depends on the directionality of the light and the contrast on the subject. The subject, of course, may move in a theatre etc.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 19, 2018, 14:53:06
We have to make do with the actual lenses available until the might new 58/0.95 comes along??

With the Z7, I had no problems doing AF with the 105/1.4 AFS at f/1.4, 1/8 sec, 25600 ISO.

One has to surmise the Z6 would perform even better in this respect.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 19, 2018, 14:58:11
In lighting conditions where using f/1.4 one requires ISO 102400 to get an acceptable exposure? I find that difficult to believe that there would be reliable focusing under such circumstances. Of course it also depends on the directionality of the light and the contrast on the subject. The subject, of course, may move in a theatre etc.

It may not be too far fetched, given the fact that a hybrid AF system only need a sufficient amount of contrast to be able to lock focus.   Olympus has been doing it for quite some time in the m43 bodies (starting with the EM1.1) and Sony for a while as well.  The PDAF is superior for knowing which direction to start focusing and contrast is superior for being able to lock down precise focus without the need for calibration.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on November 19, 2018, 15:13:37
We have to make do with the actual lenses available until the might new 58/0.95 comes along??

 :)

Quote
With the Z7, I had no problems doing AF with the 105/1.4 AFS at f/1.4, 1/8 sec, 25600 ISO.

Ok, that sounds very good.

On the DSLR side, I find the 105/1.4 to be one of the best autofocusing lenses (not necessarily fast but very precise).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on November 19, 2018, 15:17:21
It may not be too far fetched, given the fact that a hybrid AF system only need a sufficient amount of contrast to be able to lock focus.   Olympus has been doing it for quite some time in the m43 bodies (starting with the EM1.1) and Sony for a while as well.  The PDAF is superior for knowing which direction to start focusing and contrast is superior for being able to lock down precise focus without the need for calibration.

Nikon Z6/Z7 don't use CDAF when an F mount lens is used (including the 105/1.4); only the PDAF sensors are used. That's why I am wondering how is it possible to work in such lighting conditions. I would expect the native lenses to be more confident in such circumstances because the image pixels are used to focus so there is more light that is used for focusing.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 19, 2018, 15:50:21
When my Z6 arrives, I'll do a field test again to ascertain where the darkness limits are to any reliable focusing at all.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 19, 2018, 16:35:20
Nikon Z6/Z7 don't use CDAF when an F mount lens is used (including the 105/1.4); only the PDAF sensors are used. That's why I am wondering how is it possible to work in such lighting conditions. I would expect the native lenses to be more confident in such circumstances because the image pixels are used to focus so there is more light that is used for focusing.

You are correct.  Wasn't thinking about that.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 19, 2018, 18:26:13
In lighting conditions where using f/1.4 one requires ISO 102400 to get an acceptable exposure? I find that difficult to believe that there would be reliable focusing under such circumstances. Of course it also depends on the directionality of the light and the contrast on the subject. The subject, of course, may move in a theatre etc.

When I used the D5 for a week I had such situations and I did not have an EVF to simulate actual exposure. The D5 AF was able to focus in such situations although I could use 28k to 36k most of the time, some shadow parts of the stage allowed to explore 80k and 100k...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 19, 2018, 18:29:34
When my Z6 arrives, I'll do a field test again to ascertain where the darkness limits are to any reliable focusing at all.

thank you, very interesting
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Wally on November 19, 2018, 19:33:41
First Z6 OOC @20000 ISO, all Auto, only resized and sRGB
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 19, 2018, 19:40:55
That certainly looks promising.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: charlie on November 19, 2018, 20:35:42
Lest Jakov should be disappointed, here is the 100mm f/1.6 Rodenstock on the Z7.

Did you happen to note the longest focus range with this lens and the Z7?

With the 100mm/f1.6 mounted to the F mount with no extension the focus is around 3 feet, I'm curious how that compares to the Z mount cameras.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 19, 2018, 20:45:27
Tomorrow I probably will have opportunity to pick up a handful of factory spare Z lens bayonets. They have arrived at the repair facility. Then testing what they can achieve with my various exotic lenses.

Apparently the 100/1.6 will be able to focus to infinity. I need to find a focusing mount for it on the Z. Maybe scavenge an existing surplus lens, put the 100/1.6 inside and add a Z mount to the rear end will do?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Wally on November 20, 2018, 03:31:01
A few more from the first few hours -
First ISO 18'000
Second ISO 32'000 and 100% crop
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 20, 2018, 07:33:39
@Wally: This is the Z6? Wow.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 20, 2018, 08:19:44
Paid the invoice on my Z6 yesterday, so it'll arrive shortly.

Apparently the new EXPEED 6 image processor adds extra zing to the files. Over in my part of the world, the days now are becoming very dark, thus having a camera capable of delivering good image quality under those conditions is promising indeed.

Now, off to pick up Z spare mounts.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on November 20, 2018, 13:56:42
Picking up my 6’er kit tomorrow. Despite its strengths, my Sony couldn’t win the fight.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 20, 2018, 14:26:43
Got an email from Nikon at 2:00am this morning.  My Z6 & 24-70/4S kit will be delivered today.  Next time, since I am an NPS member, I think I'll have them send it to my local camera store and pick it up.  My camera store had them in and available for sale on Nov. 16.  Not that I couldn't and have not been patient, but would have been nice to have a weekend with it right from the get-go.

Anyway, enough of my belly aching!!   My Z will soon be in my grubby little hands!  So many lenses to test, so little time!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 20, 2018, 14:29:08
Oh glorious days -- picked up the first set of factory spare mounts for the Z range -- now, lots of experimental and enjoyable tinkering can be expected in the days ahead :D

I did notice the spare mounts are made in Thailand, not at the usual Sendai plant of Japan.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 20, 2018, 16:08:09
My first impressions of Z6 with 24-70 kit lens:

This is a great camera for people with older eyes. I used to have perfect vision in my youth, but my close vision is now poor. Viewfinder magnification is incredibly useful. So is brightness in low light (where I usually find myself)

This is the first camera that I feel autofocus is useful on as thyou can select a point anywhere in the field. I still have only a couple of lenses that do autofocus, but I’ll try manual focus lenses today.

Kit lens is solid and balanced well with the camera. I’d recommend is over a larger 24-70 on an adapter as it is more in the spirit of the camera.

Wow to VR. I’m not the steadiest photographer but was easy to get steady shots down to 1/4 second and even longer at 24mm. Not sure how well it will work with F mount lenses, but great with kit lens.

I shoot with my left eye so buttons and screen are in my face. I also prefer the EVF since it has diopter correction so will have to learn the positions of the buttons without having to look at them. Delete is next to playback and I deleted a shot by accident when trying to review, but I’m sure I’ll get used to it. Will try using back display today and see what happens. It seems to be articulated enough for most situations I’ve ever shot in (held over head, at floor level, straight up, straight down at arms length, from the waist...)

WiFi and Bluetooth seem to work well with SnapBridge. Have to check effect on batteries, but it captured location from my phone by Bluetooth which is nice. Has some low power settings as well.

I love my Df, but this camera does some special things too.

High ISO images (viewed on the back screen) seem quite usable. 50K is grainy, but 20k is still better than tri-x 400. Will have to try mono today. This could be a great camera for street photography.

Anyway, more to come, but after reading many bad things about Z series cameras on the internet, I found it is exceeding my expectations.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 20, 2018, 16:14:09
FTZ adapter has square baffles which reduce the throat depth to somewhat less than a centimeter. This reduces ability to adapt M42 lenses which have a much shorter flange distance. Will be interesting to see what Burns cobbles together with spare bayonets. How would I get one of my own to play with?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 20, 2018, 16:35:44
Try order one or a few from the regional Nikon service? The part code is 127EC (as seen on the photo I posted). I didn't get the proper screws right now as they are on back order, but this minor issue won't prevent any of the experiments I'm concocting at present, and eventually the screws will arrive. I paid around $40 per bayonet (incl. screws), which as spare parts go is a steal.

As the 100/1.6 Rodenstock indeed will focus to infinity on the Z cameras, I'm now scouring eBay etc. to find suitable focusing helicoids for it. I might butcher a surplus defective 18-140 if nothing useful turns up, but my guess is that there are viable solutions to be had without sacrificing an entire lens :D

Among other prime candidates for "Z-modding" are the 55/1.2 Nikkor-O (CRT) and several ultrafast Rodenstock/Oude Delft etc. optics. I also plan for a special adapter for my RF Nikkors, but will need the assistance and skill of Erik (aka 'Dr. Lens') to accomplish that project. I do have the required parts, but they need to be properly assembled.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on November 20, 2018, 16:50:06
My first impressions of Z6 with 24-70 kit lens:

Anyway, more to come, but after reading many bad things about Z series cameras on the internet, I found it is exceeding my expectations.

I haven't seen "many bad things about Z series cameras" here. Quite the opposite!  :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 20, 2018, 19:04:58
Anyone have any idea why Nikon is listing that the 35mm f/2.8 Nikkor-S Auto is not compatible with the FTZ adapter?   Is it incapable of mounting or is there something I should know different?   My curiosity is to protect myself from damaging the adapter.

Also, one thing to not do....download the UPS Mobile app and then get sucked into watching the delivery truck bop about your neighborhood, get within 2 streets of your house, only to see it in the next minute to go the other direction and be 10 streets away!  LOL  Damn you,technology!   :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 20, 2018, 19:06:23
I haven't seen "many bad things about Z series cameras" here. Quite the opposite!  :)

This forum is remarkably free of trolls. Those Norwegians know how to keep them under control.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 20, 2018, 20:03:05
This forum is remarkably free of trolls. Those Norwegians know how to keep them under control.

In fact, the NG admins are 1 Norwegian, 1 Dane, 2 Dutch, and 1 American. Thanks to the intentional non-commercial nature of NG and our loyal subscribers, we can run a tight ship without any advertising or other modern side effects of web sites.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 20, 2018, 20:07:07
The preliminary analysis of the need for special adapters leads me to making the following three general kinds: M42-Z, M52-Z, M58-Z. All of which can be made extremely flat and thus only adding a minimum of extension to the optics to be mounted.

I will keep the last 2 units for bespoke solutions for specific lenses.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Roland Vink on November 20, 2018, 20:11:15
Anyone have any idea why Nikon is listing that the 35mm f/2.8 Nikkor-S Auto is not compatible with the FTZ adapter?   Is it incapable of mounting or is there something I should know different?   My curiosity is to protect myself from damaging the adapter.
The Nikkor-S 35/2.8 rear lens protector is quite long between about 5 - 7 o'clock, maybe it extends too far and conflicts with the internals of the FTZ adapter. If so, I would expect other pre-AI lenses like the Nikkor-S 5cm/2 and Nikkor-S 5.8cm/1.4 to have similar limitations. Nikon is often over-cautious here, I'd be tempted to try - very gently - to see if it fits, if you encounter any resistance stop before you do any damage. if you do this with the adapter not attached to the camera, you can look through the rear to see what's going on.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 20, 2018, 20:33:34
Yes, once again Nikon follows the usual protocol of being overly cautious. However, no harm trying a combination if you pay attention to signals of stuff not mating correctly.

They do list the K-2 as being incompatible, but not the K-1 -- both (when not having seen much prior use) are extremely close fit and need to be trimmed ever so slightly.

I compiled a short list of optics claimed to be incompatible for the Z6/7, but which in fact will fit, in an earlier post. Sometimes i wonder whether the listings of incompatibilities given in manuals are obtained by copy-paste.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 20, 2018, 22:42:41
A Z camera in one end of the recording chain, at the other end? who knows.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 20, 2018, 22:58:29
A Z camera in one end of the recording chain, at the other end? who knows.

Very nice.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: paul_k on November 20, 2018, 23:14:07
Picked up a Z6 + FTZ adapter set (not interested in the Z series lenses) this afternoon at a small 'brick and mortar' shop in 'the provinces' (at the main pro dealers in the Amsterdam/Rotterdam region this set already is on back order only a few days after the release date  8) )

As I don't plan to use the touch screen for changing the settings, just copied the options I have in the My Menu tab of my DSLR's (and a few extra for which the Z6 lacks the buttons) on the Z6
Must say it, maybe because of that,  feels very familiar already after only a very few hours (much or which I spent setting up the My Menu tab), and really like it

Took some pictures with a modified pre AI 1.8 85mm Auto Nikon H for fun ( and play with the focus peaking) in my study, mostly wide open, of boring things like lens caps on my desk, and books and magazines lying around
Images looked amazingly sharp and clear/crisp despite the lighting consisting of a single 'house hold' bulb
Also the 'bulb' at the bottom of the FTZ adapter makes nice extra support for holding the lens in balance with the 'smaller' mirror less body

Promises a lot of good for the future (re)use with the (more then a dozen) pre AI and Ai lenses I  have had lying around for ages from my film shooting days
Previous never really liked using them on any of my previous (and present) DSLR's, even my DF (although manual focusing and camera/lens balance already were much better with that body compared to my D3 and D800/850's)

Having hard thoughts what to do with the DF though, love the 'form' of it, and the IQ/image rendering of its sensor, but fear it won't see use in the future anymore

Luxury problems :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 20, 2018, 23:16:28
A Z camera in one end of the recording chain, at the other end? who knows.

dunno how you pictured this but the result is worth the effort
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 21, 2018, 00:59:06
dunno how you pictured this but the result is worth the effort

Tinkering with bits and pieces, Frank.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 21, 2018, 01:10:05
Proof of concept.

The M58-Z adapter was easy, but as usual in this line of business, one runs out of spare parts before anything is completed. Thus I had to improvise.

Z7, Oude Delft 65mm f/0.75, 1/200 sec, 1600 ISO in a really dark corner of my living room. Hand-holding this massive contraption without a finished adapter was not something I wish to to often .... There is no depth-of-field. None.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 21, 2018, 03:35:27
Picked up a Z6 + FTZ adapter set (not interested in the Z series lenses) this afternoon at a small 'brick and mortar' shop in 'the provinces' (at the main pro dealers in the Amsterdam/Rotterdam region this set already is on back order only a few days after the release date  8) )

As I don't plan to use the touch screen for changing the settings, just copied the options I have in the My Menu tab of my DSLR's (and a few extra for which the Z6 lacks the buttons) on the Z6
Must say it, maybe because of that,  feels very familiar already after only a very few hours (much or which I spent setting up the My Menu tab), and really like it


I didn’t think I’d be that interested in the new lenses either, but the 24-70 is pretty good.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: pluton on November 21, 2018, 03:46:04

Having hard thoughts what to do with the DF though, love the 'form' of it, and the IQ/image rendering of its sensor, but fear it won't see use in the future anymore

Luxury problems :)
Blazing bright sunlight = Df.  Darker and darkness = Z6
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 21, 2018, 07:35:23
An example with the kit lens
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4904/31042038327_f0ea61a2e9_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Pi5yvn)811_0069 (https://flic.kr/p/Pi5yvn)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 21, 2018, 07:39:18
Photogenic rebar :D The 24-70/4 has a useful close focus.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 21, 2018, 09:29:01
This time of the year -- always a surprise for the car drivers.

Z7, 24-70/4.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 21, 2018, 18:21:37
Just checked my older A/C power solutions for the Z7. In studio, for stacking and similar tedious operations, I regularly use D8xxx with various A/C power adapters (EH-5/EH-B; rated 9V 4500mA) and a battery insert EP-5 of various incarnations, latest I believe was engraved EP-5b. Same setup will work with V1(!), D500, and now verified, also for Z7.

As my future plans for Z7 would be using it mainly for close-up and photomacrographic work, it's good to know the camera can safely be run on unlimited A/C. 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 21, 2018, 18:50:17
All Nikon users are, or should be, familiar with the legendary David D. Duncan and his importance as the kickstarter of Nikon's appeal world wide. If you don't know the story, this http://blog.iamnikon.com/en_GB/pro-photographers/david-douglas-duncan-nikon/ should give an idea.

The Nikkor lens DDD "discovered" and used for the coverage of the Korean War was 8.5 cm f/2 Nikkor-P, which of course is a rangefinder lens. For me, coupling up this lens to the latest Nikon was a fascinating thought, however I tried it on a Sony A7 series quickly abandoned for the camera's poor handling, and it was a bit longish for my 1 Nikons although I made the adapter for RF(S) Nikkor to CX and used the combination once in a while. Still didn't *feel* right. Something was amiss.

Yesterday I picked up the spare Z mounts and made a makeshift RF(S)->Z just so I could ascertain what could be achieved. Not a permanent solution and there are mechanical issues to sort out, but that can wait for later.

Finally, my copy of the RF 8.5cm f/2 lens mounted on the Z and I quickly took a snapshot out the kitchen window. Light levels were low as usual so the Z7 ran at 3200 and 6400 ISO.

The image below is not, by any stretch of imagination, noteworthy for its photographic quality, but for me it proves the legendary 8.5cm Nikkor really had *something* about it.

My copy is from early '50s, presumably around 1953 thus is a respectable 65 years of age and works silky smooth too.

Whole frame and 100% crop from the focused area in the centre. The latest incarnation of Photo Ninja can now handle Z7 thus was used here with the NEF.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on November 21, 2018, 18:55:02
Anyone have any idea why Nikon is listing that the 35mm f/2.8 Nikkor-S Auto is not compatible with the FTZ adapter?   Is it incapable of mounting or is there something I should know different?   My curiosity is to protect myself from damaging the adapter.

Also, one thing to not do....download the UPS Mobile app and then get sucked into watching the delivery truck bop about your neighborhood, get within 2 streets of your house, only to see it in the next minute to go the other direction and be 10 streets away!  LOL  Damn you,technology!   :D

If there's anything that I'm good at it's doing that which I should not do, so naturally I DLed the UPS Mobile app. I have, up until now, managed to ignore the prompts from UPS claiming that I needed this app. Of course that was before you told me not to do it!

Since I have a 35mm AF-S G on it's way here, by way of what seems like a slow boat from China (actually UPS ground from Adorama), I find my patience growing slimmer by the minute! Now I will get to follow the delivery van though our city's nefarious unexpected delays such as red lights, accidents, and other assorted traffic impediments.  I'm not sure that I'm up to this much drama, maybe i should not have opted to go with free delivery. Aaaaaarrgh!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 21, 2018, 22:11:00
Carl: I am still asking myself what has a F-mount lens delivery to do with Nikon's mirrorless system?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on November 21, 2018, 22:16:17
Carl: I am still asking myself what has a F-mount lens delivery to do with Nikon's mirrorless system?

It's not exactly on topic, just a response to Andrew's post about waiting for his Z stuff.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 21, 2018, 22:58:37
Excitement is the common denominator, Frank ... Although AFS-G is "old hat" now, these lenses still fit the Z range :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 21, 2018, 23:10:21
Entering the tinkering and playing-with-components stage in my exploration of the Z range now.

Unfortunately, I'm going tomorrow on an already scheduled trip thus have to leave all the stuff and possibilities for some days. This is a social call on behalf of the transgender community hence photography plays no major part in it.

Fortunately, as more and more of our members get their Z cameras, information on the new range can be updated from alternative sources meanwhile.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 23, 2018, 05:01:19
is there going to be an official spreadsheet or thread where we list out the compatible f-mount lenses?  I have the original Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 VC and just tested it on the Z6.  more hunting in low light than on a DSLR,  but it did  AF, meter just fine.  In case anyone wants to know about that lens. 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 23, 2018, 06:09:08
is there going to be an official spreadsheet or thread where we list out the compatible f-mount lenses?  I have the original Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 VC and just tested it on the Z6.  more hunting in our light then than on a DSLR,  but it did  AF, meter just fine.  In case anyone wants to know about that lens.

Sounds like a good idea. I can create a shared spreadsheet tomorrow morning. The official Nikon list is not completely accurate.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 23, 2018, 10:25:07
Rather, completely inaccurate.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on November 23, 2018, 13:44:02
Maybe just some naughty misbehaviour on the part of the manufacturer in order to drive up sales of the new Z-mount lenses when they arrive?

Or am I just a cynical old man?  I remember being told many years ago that film era lenses would not properly suffice for use on DSLRs when they first became available.  Yet such "film" lenses are still alive and well and giving good service on DSLRs when in the hands of those who know how to use them . . .

Rather, completely inaccurate.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 23, 2018, 13:58:53
It all depends on the parameters used for the assessment of such lenses. Old lenses might not always appear critically "sharp" on  a modern, high-pixel count camera, but will this imply it is useless? Absolutely not. It just behaves differently and deliver another kind of imagery. If heavy emphasis is placed on the ability to do autofocus many old lenses will "fail", but they can still be focused in the old-fashioned manual way. And so on.

I have almost exclusive used old, manual-focus lenses on my Df for many years (since 2013) and have obtained the occasional useful image during those years. There is no reason a Z camera shouldn't be able to deliver similar results.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 23, 2018, 14:21:07
it is the drawing, the style, how the lens renders that can make a huge difference.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 23, 2018, 14:31:43
"Sleepless in SeattleGjøvik"

The party I attended last night was pretty hectic and true to ancient Nordic tradition, rivers of fire water heated our bodies and influenced our souls. Back at the hotel, I found myself having trouble getting sleep, an unusual situation for me, thus at the middle of night (0400) grabbed the Z7 with its 24-70/4 attached, and started documenting the neighbourhood.

Perhaps due to the imbibed spirits, or being cross-eyed by tiredness, I could hardly see anything in the viewfinder thus the Z7 was transformed into an advanced point-and-shoot camera. Outside it was very dark so ISO had to be set to 12800 in order to keep shutter speeds around 1/20-1/30 sec with the lens "wide" open f/4.

This is one of the night scenes. Jpg straight from the camera, just converting to sRGB and downscaling to 2000pix wide. The 100% crop shows the quality delivered under such adverse conditions (on my behalf, and the low light level).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 23, 2018, 15:40:42
Later same troubled night, I tried the AF functionality by focusing on Venus, as our sister planet shone brightly and high on the [very] early morning sky. Again, 12800 ISO, "wide" open 24-70/4, even more shaky hands. Due to the dawn light, shutter speeds now crept up to 1/100 sec or thereabout.

Venus - morning star. Shot at 70mm focal setting. Entire frame, and 100% crops of Venus itself and image corner. Apparently the 24-70 is a decent performer. My eyes were even worse then on the previous occasion and too early for morning coffee.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: armando_m on November 23, 2018, 18:07:08
... I tried the AF functionality by focusing on Venus....
wow, I'm impressed it focused on such a tiny dot

that could save a lot of time when preparing for an astrophotography session
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on November 24, 2018, 09:46:52
OK, a big question, (and I realize early days) , anyone planning on replacing their Df with a Z6/7?   I love the Df but financially it might have to go to help fund new system.   I use the MF Aids on my Sony a7rii and a7iii quite often with adapted lenses.  I will keep the D500 for action, birds and sport.  A couple of Df owners feel the metering, AWB, auto ISO and skin tones are at least as good on the Z6 and Z7 , thoughts?
Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 24, 2018, 10:22:34
My current plan is to keep the Z7 mainly for close-up and photomacrographic (stacking) tasks, while my Z6 (en route at present) will be combined with my Df for everything else.

I embellished the Z7 with a nice red "7" (nail polish) and already borrowed the corresponding green stuff from my girl friend to do likewise a "6" on the Z6. The bodies are virtually identical thus colour-coding them seems a prudent and practical move.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Chris Dees on November 24, 2018, 12:41:08
OK, a big question, (and I realize early days) , anyone planning of replacing their Df with a Z6/7?   I love the Df but financially it might have to go to help fund new system.   I use the MF Aids on my Sony a7rii and a7iii quite often with adapted lenses.  I will keep the D500 for action, birds and sport.  A couple of Df owners fell the metering, AWB, auto ISO and skin tones are at least as good on the Z6 and Z7 , thoughts?
Cheers,
Tom

I'm in the process of selling my Df (and probably my D500) in favour of the Z6. Sensor, IBIS and focus peaking are other reasons to get the Z6.
The more user reports I read the more I'm convinced the Z6 (and Z7) is a terrific camera. I've no idea why those you-tubers are tumbling over each other to burn the Z's to the ground.
I'll keep my D850 for action, birds and sport and when I need the second slot.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: paul_k on November 24, 2018, 13:20:09
OK, a big question, (and I realize early days) , anyone planning of replacing their Df with a Z6/7?   I love the Df but financially it might have to go to help fund new system.   I use the MF Aids on my Sony a7rii and a7iii quite often with adapted lenses.  I will keep the D500 for action, birds and sport.  A couple of Df owners fell the metering, AWB, auto ISO and skin tones are at least as good on the Z6 and Z7 , thoughts?
Cheers,
Tom

I regret to say I do :( even if I really really like my DF
Bought it shortly after its introduction, partly out of GAS, partly especially for use with the several pre Ai and AI lenses
I still have lying around

Having shot with classic film bodies like the F2AS and FE made the old fashion look a welcome blast from the past,
while as a former film shooter the dial based UI was a non issue
The relatively small body is a near prefect, compared to my D3 pr D800 much better balanced, set up with eg
my small sized manual focus 1.4/50mm AI, 2.0/28mm Ai or 2.0/50mm pre AI Nikkor H Auto lenses
But looking back over the years I find I used it relatively very little, preferring my D800's for my 'serious'/professional work,
saving the DF for use at 'special occasions' (resulting in only around 8800 clicks in 4 years)

Recently got a Z6, after reading enthusiastic user reviews (see eg Ross Harvey) about the focus peaking on the Z7, and playing
with in particular that option at several NPS Clean and Check days, with my some of my own manual lenses I brought along
While manual focusing, even with the standard viewing screen, on the DF in my experience already is much better then with
my D3 and D800, the Z6/7 focus peaking is superior in that respect
(Never tried focus peaking on my D850 but that is only possible in Live View, which I never use, that's not a viable option for me)
As a consequence I don't need the DF for that purpose anymore

While I don't need the Z6's video, nor its 12 fps, having a (compared to the D850 much better implemented and usable)
'silent shutter' option is a very welcome option (obviously much more silent then the 'Quiet' setting on the DF)
AF of course (just look at the difference in price) isn't on the same level as the D850, but really isn't as bad as many 'reviewers'
try to make believe, and in my non scientific opinion at least on par with the D800 (even under less then optimal light)
High ISO and IQ are at least on par with the DF (and maybe even D850, haven't tested that yet)
Also I like the EVF much better then I had anticipated before

I could keep the DF as a maybe redundant, but yet cherished body, but I already have kept my Hasselblad 500CM, F2AS, FE, F90X and F100 for that
So 'head over heart' tells me to better sell my DF ........ :'(
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 24, 2018, 13:55:32
OK, a big question, (and I realize early days) , anyone planning on replacing their Df with a Z6/7?   I love the Df but financially it might have to go to help fund new system.   I use the MF Aids on my Sony a7rii and a7iii quite often with adapted lenses.  I will keep the D500 for action, birds and sport.  A couple of Df owners feel the metering, AWB, auto ISO and skin tones are at least as good on the Z6 and Z7 , thoughts?
Cheers,
Tom

As much as I'm loving the Z6, there are still some lenses that the Df can handle that the Z cannot.  Instead, I'll most likely be selling the D750.

The Df will probably go to the grave with me unless it dies before I do.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 24, 2018, 14:51:58
The Z cameras have admittedly grown upon me over the months since I first used them. However, pleasant as they might be, there is a weak spot in my mindset for the Df. After all, the Df was the camera that made photography after all these years once again enjoyable and fun. The Z's are in that context more matter-of-fact machines. I confess to like them, absolutely, and more than I had imagined initially. However, at present that's where the relationship ends. Maybe the arrival of the Noct 58/0.95 precipitates yet another change,
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on November 24, 2018, 15:01:13
Perhaps it is because they don't use cameras to make photographs as such - maybe they just see the Z6/7 as something to make you-tube grumble sessions about?

(Just my 0.02c worth.  ;) )

.....................................................
I've no idea why those you-tubers are tumbling over each other to burn the Z's to the ground.
.....................................................
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: jpgrahn on November 24, 2018, 16:37:52
Oh, please start to sell you Dfs!  :)
There is hardly ever any body for sale here (Sweden).
Last time I saw one the asking price was 12000 SEK.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 24, 2018, 16:43:19
I was looking at used prices for the DF yesterday after using the Z6 with manual lenses earlier in the day. While in some ways the DF is still superior in some ways (battery life is great, can see what aperture I used with old lenses, simplicity of interface) the Z6 viewfinder with focus peaking and magnification, articulated screen, silent mode, focus shift, and video which I’ve hardly explored yet, is turning out to be a wonderful camera.

But what is really putting it over the top is IBIS which gives very stable shots at twice focal length reciprocal (100mm at 1/50th second). My eyes are not as sharp and my hands are not as steady as they were in the 1980’s so it almost feels like cheating to use a camera like this.

Prices are already pretty low for the DF (~1250 US) so I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to sell it before price drops (it already has), but if the Z is reliable over the next few months I will probably be looking to sell the DF to finance purchase of the 14-30 S line lens.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Airy on November 24, 2018, 18:45:17
Oh, please start to sell you Dfs!  :)
There is hardly ever any body for sale here (Sweden).
Last time I saw one the asking price was 12000 SEK.

Significantly, it has disappeared from the catalogue of "Le cirque" (one of the big Paris shops), whilst the Z6 and Z7 are there of course.
Still hugging mine; Z6 will come when it passes away.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on November 25, 2018, 07:24:38
Significantly, it has disappeared from the catalogue of "Le cirque" (one of the big Paris shops), whilst the Z6 and Z7 are there of course.
Still hugging mine; Z6 will come when it passes away.
Airy, Nikon India still lists the Df, at approx. $2500, but none of my dealers can get one.
Thanks all, selling the Df is a last resort.  For me the silent shooting, with all of the provisos, is very important.  The Sony a7rii, a7iii and Olympus EM1/Pen F have it but would love to get back to Nikon UI.
I figure I could get the funds together by selling tons of misc. gear (bags, filters, L-brackets , etc) to save the Df  :) .  Neither of my dealers of choice have the Z6 kit so have some time.   May just get the body, zoom and adapter and then see what happens  ;).   The 35 1.8Z maybe since I've sold my AF 35mm's.
Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 25, 2018, 09:41:29
I guess as soon as the production is ramped up and the holiday season over the price and availability should be better.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on November 25, 2018, 20:21:40
I have been trying the z6 for the last 3 days. I´m definitely keeping her.
   Have never done this before but I´m going to try to summarize my experience so far and how is going to fit with my work. From the beginning hig iso performance, auto-focus and specially silent shooting were my primary concerns. It delivers in everyone of them.

   ISO: better than the d750. Shooting at 1600-3200 is better in my eyes and it has at least equal and I thing more latitude in post. I´m using Capture NX-D for it and maybe it helps too. Images sooc look better anyway.
   Here a singer at 3200 iso + 2.14 ev in post

   
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on November 25, 2018, 20:29:32
I have been trying the z6 for the last 3 days. I´m definitely keeping her.
   Have never done this before but I´m going to try to summarize my experience so far and how is going to fit with my work. From the beginning hig iso performance, auto-focus and specially silent shooting were my primary concerns. It delivers in everyone of them.

   ISO: better than the d750. Shooting at 1600-3200 is better in my eyes and it has at least equal and I thing more latitude in post. I´m using Capture NX-D for it and maybe it helps too. Images sooc look better anyway.
   Here a singer at 3200 iso + 2.14 ev in post

 

Good one, Paco!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on November 25, 2018, 20:33:56
Focus is working with moving dancers. They are faster than singers but slower than birds... The jury is still out for moving targets as I´m spoiled by the d500. After all, I was not expecting the z6 to be that good ad sports-like but pintpoint focus is very very accurate. I have specially seen difference at extremes of the 58mm 1.4 wide open, 200-400 at distant subjects, etc... That´s before even talking about manual lenses. Focus peaking and 1:1 magnification on the viewfinder (plus ibis) makes using all the manual focus so easy it feels like cheating. 105mm 2.5 is nuts, rodenstock easier to get something in focus if that what you want, El-nikkor! Just have been playing with them but you get the idea. I thought it will be like this but it really is.
   All out with face detection enable has focused on the eye so far. I know is not the general impression so I hold my criteria, just playing

   Surprised eye, 105mm 1.4 @1.4, 3200 iso +1.5ev in post, 1/125th handheld.
   Nikon textures with 105 f4 @ f11 I think  ::) on tripod. Wireless flash.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on November 25, 2018, 20:42:53
    Silent shutter is a godsend for theater. Picture of guitarrist playing coming. No one was disturbed during the taking of such image. I have to get use to it. I´m not sure yet I took one
 I have managed to get weird forms in cars going at high speed opposite me but as it is not my intended use, I´ll "clank" away if it comes to that. Even the sound is very low compared to other bodies I have been using until now.
   I still have to get banding. Have tried to provoke it with florescence light at various speeds. I want to get to know what to avoid, as I did with the movement. Any advice welcome.
   On top of that, I have managed to get a sharp image with the 200-400 at 1/20th of a second. Finally. Distant subject. The focus point is in the car.

   
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on November 25, 2018, 20:52:45
VR-IBIS works. I have been able to shot stage images with the 105mm 1.4. It was challenging to do so handheld before because shutter speed goes aorund 160th-200th of a second a lot of times and it is not good enough. At that same speed I can get sharper images now.

   I have added silent shooting and VR on to the "I" menú to be able to change it without taking the eye from the viewfinder. Af modes are in one of the function buttons on the front, focus peaking in the other; non cpu lenses pressing the joystick and 1:1 magnification in the record one. I´ll keep it like this until something better comes along.
   A few handhold with the 105 1.4. Mostly at 2.8, mostly at 1600-3200 Iso

  Last one is full of detail in the clothes and hair.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on November 25, 2018, 21:12:11
I still have to play with the video. One try that same night shows again that the ISO performance is excellent, the vr works much better than I thought and using the viewfinder is more discrete in a dark place. I´m ready to record in 10 bit with external recorder and n-log. The bottleneck will be my skill. I´m a bit concerned about how much I can record with one battery in one go. I hope it covers at leas 90-120 min to be able to get a whole show in one take.
   

  A few perks and questions:

    Biggest one so far: the viewfinder shows a brighter image than is recorded in dark environments, not so much with bright light. Histogram helps but not so much and it is distracting. I have tried to bring the brightness down a couple of points but is still confusing. One of the reasons to push pp so much to star with. I´ll get use to it but any idea in that regard will be appreciated.
    Highlight mettering works better than in the d500 too but still not perfect. Manual is the way to go.

  I can´t get a clean image in the screen. There is always something over. It bothers me. I´ll make it an option too.

 14 vs 12 bits? It speeds it up. 12 fps is nuts. I can live with 9 fps without problems but I can´t decide if it is worth the extra space. All my cameras has been shooting in 14 bit when possible until now. Ideas?

   The manual lenses with cpu all work like a D, locking it at the smallest apperture and controlling it from the dials.
Non cpu AI and AIS do not record the apperture even if the correct info is in the memory back and, weird, the 80-200 ed does not work. It ask for the lens to be stopped down and lock even if it already is. That led to a little experiment: it works in the d200, d700, d500, and d750; it does no in Z6, d5300 and it does not work in the d80 ir (Lola) but it did before  :o I don´t know why.

   Overall I´m very happy with her. I hope this gives useful information


   

   
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on November 25, 2018, 21:57:16
Paco with those nice pictures you deserve it  :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on November 26, 2018, 00:04:26
Great examples, Paco!

I have a question to Paco and other Z owners who have shot in the dark situations like at night or in the theater:

Was the pitch black frame of EVF screen easily descernible in the very dark situations?  I've often struggled with the framing with EVF and missed the center of the image frame when something pitch black things comes to the borders of the screen.  That also happenes when I shoot with my iPhone SE.  Panasonic GH5, the only mirrorless camera I've used that shares the latest 3.69MP OLED, suffered with the problem much less than the older ones, but the problem still persisted somewhat.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on November 26, 2018, 00:37:35
I haven´t paid attention until you asked. It means is not difficult. As long as there is a bit of light the deep black lines on top and bottom are very clear. Even if there is no light, information icons in white, also top and bottom, go to the four corners and that, I realize just now looking, helps with framing in the dark.
   There is always turning on the grid (item menu d9). It is made of white lines. It can be distracting but it works if needed.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 26, 2018, 01:27:25
Paco, your description is as clear as your images!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on November 26, 2018, 01:30:08
I haven´t paid attention until you asked. It means is not difficult. As long as there is a bit of light the deep black lines on top and bottom are very clear. Even if there is no light, information icons in white, also top and bottom, go to the four corners and that, I realize just now looking, helps with framing in the dark.
   There is always turning on the grid (item menu d9). It is made of white lines. It can be distracting but it works if needed.

Thank you for sharing your observation.  I preferred simpler screen image and kept the displayed information to the minimum, so I highly depended on the frame.

On Panasonic cameras, EVF or LCD, will display light gray (not white) lines at the border of the frame to indicate the selected format (1:1, 9:16, etc.).  It is a brilliant idea and I had absolutely no problem of discerning the lines.  Unfortunately, the border of the screen was still used as part of the frame, so I sometimes struggled with discerning it.  :(
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: armando_m on November 26, 2018, 02:18:50
Paco, fantastic review, thank you
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 26, 2018, 06:24:02
very helpful information, Paco. Thank you.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on November 26, 2018, 07:56:23
Thanks to all for useful tips/info!
After fiddling with my Z6 for a few days there is one thing that stands out; ease of using MF lenses. I’ve assigned the front lower (Fn2) button to 100% zoom and this makes for an ergonomically smooth way of focusing.
I also set the d2 (Apply settings to live view) off to leave the EVF as neutral as possible.
Still lots to investigate...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 26, 2018, 15:45:33
The Markins L-bracket (LN-Z7) arrived today. It is a nicely finished piece of robust aluminium and fits the Z camera like a glove. My GPS device (Foolography) now sits safely ensconced inside the L and even the unlikely event of receiving a hammer blow to the side of the camera won't harm it.

The associated bracket for the FTZ adapter is on back order, but hopefully will be dispatched within this week.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 26, 2018, 15:48:05
Landscape again suddenly changed appearance over night. We had a moderately cold spell (-10C) but sufficient to cover everything in the glaciated grip of winter.

A snapshot with the 200/2 AFS from my veranda to document the change. The shadows are intensively blue due to open sky and very low solar elevation. Jpg straight off camera.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 26, 2018, 20:17:52
A snapshot to demonstrate the quality of the 24-70/4S.

Z7, f/4.5, 200ISO, 1/400sec.

(the 100% is from the NEF processed in Photo Ninja 1.3.7, as this opens shadows better than the direct jpg)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 26, 2018, 20:34:39
#172 looks a tad underexosed and shadow/highlights tamed a lot
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 26, 2018, 20:39:47
The first image was a downscaled jpg straight off the camera. Afternoon winter sunshine is very soft, by the way.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 26, 2018, 21:42:22
The first image was a downscaled jpg straight off the camera. Afternoon winter sunshine is very soft, by the way.

so it is an orange tinted soft light of the low angle winter sun?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 26, 2018, 22:24:36
Yes, that is correct. The automatic w/b is spot on. The sun was almost grazing the horizon.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: aerobat on November 26, 2018, 22:25:08
Thanks Birna for demonstrating the 24-70mm resolving power. Impressive!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Wally on November 27, 2018, 01:15:34
The proof is in the pudding  8)
VR works great, an example of 58mm @ 1/8sec
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 27, 2018, 03:31:58
Yes, this 24-70/4S is pretty impressive.  I need to post process the images from tonight... But I'm all set to sell off the 24-70/2.8G if it turns out to be what I hoped.  I
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 27, 2018, 18:37:35
The VR really works iff you really want it to. Otherwise, feel free to experiment.

Z7, 105/1.4 AFS, 100 ISO, setting sun behind frozen deciduous forest in my neighbourhood.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on November 27, 2018, 18:39:55
Z6+ftz+helicoids+ring adapter+el-nikkor 105mm 5.6 (1st) and 80mm 5.6 (2nd and 3rd)  This combination has always being very difficult to focus. Any of the el-nikkors for that matter. Even with a split focusing screen, I have always to resort to live-view. Evf and easy magnification plus ibis makes it very very easy. The control over what is in focus is excellent. The struggle is over. I looked today for some subjects with details. I´ll not bore you with the many keepers -focus wise- One far, one closer and as close as possible with today´s gear. All at f8, all handheld. Having so many focus points to choose from there is no need to recompose.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 27, 2018, 18:43:14
Z6+ftz+helicoids+ring adaptor+el-nikkor 105mm 5.6. This combination has always being very dificult to focus. Any of the el-nikkors for that matter. Even with a split focusing screen, I have always to resort to liveview. Evf and easy magnification plus ibis makes it very very easy. The control over what is in focus is excellent. The struggle is over. I looked today for some subjects with details. I´ll not bore you with the many keepers -focus wise- One far, one closer and as close as possible with today´s gear. All at f8, all handheld. Having so many focus points to choose from there is no need to recompose.

I've set up F1 and F2 buttons with 50% and 200% zoom. It makes fine focus really easy,especially when the light is dim.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 27, 2018, 18:45:15
My Z7 is set up in a similar manner. Quite useful approach, me thinks.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on November 27, 2018, 19:26:07
The VR really works iff you really want it to. Otherwise, feel free to experiment.

Z7, 105/1.4 AFS, 100 ISO, setting sun behind frozen deciduous forest in my neighbourhood.

That....is very cool!   8)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Roland Vink on November 27, 2018, 21:39:57
Shun Cheung from photo.net has an interesting observation on the FTZ adapter:

Quote
With any AF, AF-D, and AF-S lenses on the FTZ, as well as native Z-mount lenses directly on the Z camera, during composition, when you control the aperture with the sub-command dial, the lens' aperture actually closes down from the maximum to f5.6, but when you change the setting to something smaller such as f6.3, f8, f11, the aperture on the lens would not close further down below f5.6, during composition and metering. Hence we are using partial stop-down composition and metering.

This is an interesting feature. It largely eliminates problems with focus shift that can occur between full-aperture focusing and the stopped-down shooting aperture. Focus shift happens mostly at wider apertures, any residual focus shift beyond f/5.6 will be minor and covered by the increased depth of field. Not stopping down beyond f/5.6 ensures enough light reaches the meter for accurate metering in low light conditions. Very neat. I wonder if the same occurs with the Z lenses mounted directly on the camera?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Seapy on November 27, 2018, 21:57:40
I wonder if the same occurs with the Z lenses mounted directly on the camera?

In the first sentence "as well as native Z-mount lenses directly on the Z camera".
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Roland Vink on November 27, 2018, 22:13:04
doh!  :o :o
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on November 27, 2018, 22:20:06
This feature has already been reported over here a few times. It also works dynamically in S an P modes, with a “risk” that the aperture changes after focussing due to recomposing to a different exposure condition.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 29, 2018, 01:23:40
Earlier today, I briefly tried the legendary 55mm f/1.2 Nikkor-O ('CRT') on my Z7. This is one of the exotic lenses generating a lot of speculation as to its 'Z' performance. Now, some questions can be answered. (observe: the adapter to Z is still very preliminary thus it's difficult to align the lens properly)

Can it focus to infinity?
Yes

Does it cover the entire FX format towards infinity? No.

Is it sharp across the entire frame? No. Given it is optimised for approx. 1:4 magnification, that should be no surprise.

In fact, at f/1.2 the 55/1.2 CRT is quite sharp on axis and very much less so anywhere else. All this had been predicted in advance thus my test shot seems superfluous. However, surprises sometimes happen even though it didn't this time.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 29, 2018, 01:52:30
Another (semi-)legendary lens in the 'exotics' department is the Rodenstock 100 mm f/1.6. This has been a beloved lens for creating dreamingly blurry close-ups, when the lens is mounted on any ordinary DSLR. However, with the arrival of the Z range, this lens might be a better (in optical terms) performer.

My Rodenstock-Z adapter is again on the tinkering stage, but with the inclusion of a newly arrived helicoid, I could do a few night shots. It *will* focus to infinity on the Z camera, and it *will* deliver sharpness across the entire range. Good news for the owners of this heavy piece of glass.

The fluorescent lights in this night scene produce some blue colour fringing that probably would disappear under a better balanced light regime. Otherwise sharpness appears to be excellent and the bokeh qualities are exquisite.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on November 29, 2018, 05:29:47
Earlier today, I briefly tried the legendary 55mm f/1.2 Nikkor-O ('CRT') on my Z7. This is one of the exotic lenses generating a lot of speculation as to its 'Z' performance. Now, some questions can be answered. (observe: the adapter to Z is still very preliminary thus it's difficult to align the lens properly)

Can it focus to infinity?
Yes

Does it cover the entire FX format towards infinity? No.

Is it sharp across the entire frame? No. Given it is optimised for approx. 1:4 magnification, that should be no surprise.

In fact, at f/1.2 the 55/1.2 CRT is quite sharp on axis and very much less so anywhere else. All this had been predicted in advance thus my test shot seems superfluous. However, surprises sometimes happen even though it didn't this time.

At infinity it looks a bit dismal, but I find it is still lovely close in:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4885/45078363625_35f1d04550_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bFqoZX)811_0161 (https://flic.kr/p/2bFqoZX)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: charlie on November 29, 2018, 07:22:04
Another (semi-)legendary lens in the 'exotics' department is the Rodenstock 100 mm f/1.6.....

That's good news, almost makes getting a Z camera worth it in itself. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Øivind Tøien on November 29, 2018, 09:30:33
It looks like the spacial hot pixel suppression algorithm in Z7 is a similar gentle one as in D850, D8100E, D810, D810a, D500 and D7000 setting max from nearest 24 neighbors (all color channels). So for astrophotography  there should not be any problems with star colors (typically small stars turning green) that can happen in D5300/D5500, D7100/D7200, D7500 (latter a bit different) using only 8/12 pixels of same color: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/635441-aa-filter-spatial-filter-and-star-colours/page-4 (https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/635441-aa-filter-spatial-filter-and-star-colours/page-4)

Battery consumption and sensor heating is another matter though.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on November 29, 2018, 11:39:26
At infinity it looks a bit dismal, but I find it is still lovely close in:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4885/45078363625_35f1d04550_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bFqoZX)811_0161 (https://flic.kr/p/2bFqoZX)

beautiful
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: John Geerts on November 29, 2018, 12:07:04
That's good news, almost makes getting a Z camera worth it in itself. Thanks for sharing.
Yes. agree.  Thanks for the test !!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 29, 2018, 12:17:40
This was bound to happen ... been experimenting with the Oude Delft Rayxar 50mm f/0.75 this morning. Adapting it to the Z is not that difficult once one has the factory mount, finding a useful balance between image rendition, area covered, and crazy bokeh is another matter. Eventually I decided to position the lens slightly further away from the sensor plane than the minimum possible. Firstly, this protects the shutter curtain from being snagged, secondly, one gets better coverage across the frame and less vignetting.

I can insert a thin 52mm thread ring to move the lens even farther out, if deemed necessary. At the same time, keeping a 52mm thread at its rear end allows using the lens on my DSLRs as before with a CPU inserted as well.

The lens casts the view through it into a pretty psychodelic experience. I need some time to adjust. However examples will follow in due time. Now off to do other pressing chores.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Patrick Berg-Pedersen on November 29, 2018, 12:20:11
Another (semi-)legendary lens in the 'exotics' department is the Rodenstock 100 mm f/1.6. This has been a beloved lens for creating dreamingly blurry close-ups, when the lens is mounted on any ordinary DSLR. However, with the arrival of the Z range, this lens might be a better (in optical terms) performer.

My Rodenstock-Z adapter is again on the tinkering stage, but with the inclusion of a newly arrived helicoid, I could do a few night shots. It *will* focus to infinity on the Z camera, and it *will* deliver sharpness across the entire range. Good news for the owners of this heavy piece of glass.

The fluorescent lights in this night scene produce some blue colour fringing that probably would disappear under a better balanced light regime. Otherwise sharpness appears to be excellent and the bokeh qualities are exquisite.

ISO on the respective image (the one of the little ball bing outside your apartment) was??
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 29, 2018, 12:22:52
ISO 3200.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Patrick Berg-Pedersen on November 29, 2018, 12:38:55
ISO 3200.
Thanks!😊
I saw that blue fringing on some poles at the ball bing, is this a JPEG??
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 29, 2018, 12:46:02
Yes, I'm posting mainly jpgs here in this thread unless otherwise noted.

However, fluorescent lights can cause similar fringing with 'normal' lenses as well. The 35/1.4 Nikkor (MF) is a well-known example.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 29, 2018, 16:59:49
A fledgeling Bird Phoenix arising ... Z7, Oude Delft Rayxar 50mm f/0.75 (NEF processed in Photo Ninja 1.3.7).

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Erik Lund on November 29, 2018, 23:07:26
Now we are talking! Beautiful executed I really like it  8)


Something that shows off the mirror less ability to use exotic lenses. Thanks B
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 29, 2018, 23:26:38
I'm proud that I managed to make the adapter without your usual assistance and guidance, Erik :D Other projects might not be equally easy to complete on my own, though. Assembling bits and pieces for the various combinations these days.

The bokeh of that 50/0.75 is really special.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jakov Minić on November 30, 2018, 13:34:32
Birna, that is what I am talking about!
I suppose the Rodenstock TV Heligon 42/0.75 would be a prime/better match for the Z7?
I remember you telling me how it woud have been better on a C-mount...

Have you tried the wireless capabilities of the Z7. I know you don't carry a smart phone, but how about transfering files to your laptop?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 30, 2018, 13:57:39
Don't have a 42 Rodenstock any more, or equivalently, cannot find it .... I do have other exotica that could be brought to bear on the Z's, though.

For file transfer, an XQD card reader is the solution. I wouldn't bother with wi-fi for that task.

As to the Rodenstock 100/1.6, I found it's so heavy that a helicoid mounted between it and the camera easily will jam due to the leverage effect of the optics. The 100/1.5 is much heavier than the f/1.6,  believe it or not, and would be hopeless to operate unless it is sunk into a large helicoid.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: chambeshi on November 30, 2018, 14:30:29
I shot my D850 and Z7 intensively over 10 days earlier this month in Kruger Nat Park. The Z7 can indeed perform as a superb wildlife camera. No surprises here as it's very well suited to take portraits under decent conditions...

But too often I experience the Z7 AF missing subjects. and not only moving subjects, which the D850 rarely misses. The reasons appear to be shortfalls in AF algorithms and/or setup of the Z7 compared to the excellent AF in Nikon's DSLRs (see commentary on the WWW - notably Thom Hogan's Z7 Blog). Hopefully, a Firmware can fix at least some of these Z AF options/implementations. Too often I find in single-point Mode on AFC, the Z7 will lock on to extraneous objects adjacent to the subject. This can be a twig / branch etc close to the subject. This factor is a photo-killer - lost opportunity in each case. The area of the AF cursor in the respective Single-point modes of the Z7 and D850 are very similar (if not identical); obviously, the relative coverage of the subject by the AF point is contingent on shooting distance and magnification.

Yes, Pin-Focus mode in these Z Nikons - via the EVF - gives one the advantage over a DSLR. It can drill on to the tiniest detail in the subject; but Pin-Mode is confined to the slower AFS mode. I find AFS too risky to try and rely on where there's the chance a subject moves suddenly....

These recent experiences comparing these 2 top end cameras has reinforced my decision to keep my D850. The Z7 is excellent in so many ways... the best for my needs for landscape and remote shooting. The silent shutter is a boon. But, instead of a Z6 as backup and 3rd body, the 2019 plan is to search out a Used bargain of a 2nd D850. Some examples of more obliging subjects not obscured by clutter (both Nikon Z7 + 70-200 f2.8E FL Nikkor):
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Randy Stout on November 30, 2018, 17:32:52
I have had my Z6 for several days now, and went walking this morning (southern Michigan.)  We had a recent heavy wet snow, with lots of interesting subjects .  I was struck by this tree, that made me think of a snow covered ent sleeping in the forest.  I can almost see the large hands, bowed head.  I was quiet so as to not disturb him.

Z6 with 24-70 S,  f/4, ISO 100 1/400s.  Post converted to tiff and processed in Photoshop, Silver Efex pro.

I have really enjoyed the Z6 so far. One of my favorite features is the ability to assign the exposure compensation function to the focus ring on the lens.  Makes it so easy to adjust the exposure, and with the EVF, I can see what is happening, without having to chimp all the time.  I have other options for action shooting, but will give it a fair trial at my local bird sanctuary soon.

Cheers

Randy
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on November 30, 2018, 19:03:42
The big brother to the "small" Oude Delft 50mm f/0.75 Rayxar is the mighty 65mm f/0.75. Once again, not difficult to adapt to the Z provided one has the required parts, but care is required as the lens is very heavy. It can be set to give focus 5-6m away, perhaps slightly more, but the danger of a conflict with the shutter curtain is great and there is heavy vignetting to restrict the useful imaged area. I decided to forego maximum distance and set the lens to focus approx. 1m away. That makes for coverage almost into the extreme corners plus not too bad sharpness distribution either. Although it is only fair to state that the Rayxar makes the concept of 'sharpness' highly relative. This lens is about bokeh, nothing else matters.

Thus, the 65/0.75 allows dreamlike portraits. No need to do any additional Phtoshopping at all :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Chris Dees on November 30, 2018, 19:30:12
Just ordered a Z6 + FTZ + 24-70
So the waiting started, with a little luck just before Christmas. ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on November 30, 2018, 21:42:50
Here is the route I have been taking of late with the Nikon Z7. I have M39 and M42 adapters for the Nikon Z7 on order, coming from China. These will be used on the Z7 to mount lenses like the Nikkor “O” CRT lens and other exotics, hopefully gaining increased focus-range.

I am still looking for a wide-angle view-camera lens that reaches infinity. It will be used for landscapes and not-so-close work. I can use it on the tweaked Cambo Mini-Actus or the Cambo XL 35 (larger) view camera. If you have any ideas about great lenses that are wide for view-camera use, I would like to hear of them. The Cambo Actar 24mm lens is just not corrected well enough for my purposes, so I am looking for something else, like a wide-angle bellows lens that is APO (highly corrected). Know any?

Meanwhile, I did succeed in getting a rear-standard Z7 bayonet mount for the Cambo-Mini Actus view camera. This is made for the Actus Mini G, the one with the exchangeable rear standard bayonets. It allows me to get closer than my D850 because the camera is smaller. Also, by using the smallest of my bellows (the shortest), I can bring both front and read standards closer together. Remember, if you have the FTZ adapter, you can plug into any view camera with a traditional F-Mount bayonet. It just adds a little more distance to the bellows.

I enclose a shot I just took with the Cambo Actus Mini with the Nikon Z7 on its own bayonet, using the APO El Nikkor 105mm f/5.6 lens, one of my favorite lenses. Not much difference, but I like using the Z7 with this smaller view camera. My Nikon D850 sits on the larger Cambo Actus XL 35 view camera.

I do (finally) have a site of some of my work, for those interested.

https://michaelerlewine.smugmug.com/

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 01, 2018, 01:18:45
I have a question for NIkon Z7 owners. Using LiveView, I have not figured out how to leave it on permanently. It stays bright for many 20 seconds and then partially dims out. Anyone know how to make it stay on? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: fish_shooter on December 01, 2018, 07:55:20
I have a question for NIkon Z7 owners. Using LiveView, I have not figured out how to leave it on permanently. It stays bright for many 20 seconds and then partially dims out. Anyone know how to make it stay on? Thanks in advance.

Set standby timer to no limit - in C3
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 01, 2018, 08:20:23
Set standby timer to no limit - in C3

Appreciated. That helps.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 01, 2018, 09:23:30
Set standby timer to no limit - in C3

I'd only recommend this if the camera is run on A/C power. Otherwise battery drains fast.

(the Z's use the same A/C adapter and power supply as the D8xx and D500 series)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Fons Baerken on December 01, 2018, 09:40:20
Search results: the AC adapter nikon EH-5c.

https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/ni/NI_Article?articleNo=000003739&configured=1&lang=en_US (https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/ni/NI_Article?articleNo=000003739&configured=1&lang=en_US)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 01, 2018, 09:43:42
I'd only recommend this if the camera is run on A/C power. Otherwise battery drains fast.

(the Z's use the same A/C adapter and power supply as the D8xx and D500 series)

That's true, but much of my work, at least in winter, is done in my small studio, where one more AC cord is one more thing to be aware of. I have a bunch of batteries and I keep them full, so I would rather must swap out a battery and have less cords to mess with. Just my preference.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 01, 2018, 09:54:39
Individual preferences are non-negotiable, I suppose.  As I already have Stackshot rail(s) and flash running off A/C, another cable is no hassle for me. I just dress the cables to be away from the main work area (in this case,  work table).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 01, 2018, 10:08:24
Individual preferences are non-negotiable, I suppose.  As I already have Stackshot rail(s) and flash running off A/C, another cable is no hassle for me. I just dress the cables to be away from the main work area (in this case,  work table).

I have a Stackshot, but it is cabled to pillars with Velcro and used seldomly anyway. I don't have a table, but move around a lot, setting up the context for much of my close-up work. This includes a couple of tripods already, and other stuff. Since my studio is not large, there is a lot of rearranging and moving stuff around, endlessly. Tethering my cameras with AC cords is just another element to compete with the tripods, lights, stands, baffles, diffusers, etc. As you say, these are individual preferences and as mentioned I have a stack of full batteries within arm's reach. It is easier for me to just use those.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Termite on December 02, 2018, 22:25:33
Birna: more Rayxar pictures, please!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: beryllium10 on December 03, 2018, 05:13:47
Some examples of more obliging subjects not obscured by clutter (both Nikon Z7 + 70-200 f2.8E FL Nikkor):

In reply to Woody, whose post has now dropped back a page.  Just want to make sure that someone says what an engaging picture the photo of the little monkey is.  Didn't want it to disappear into the thread without trace.

Other than that, don't own a Z6 or Z7, no plan to buy one.  But will be glad to come back to all this information some time in the indefinite future if that seems like a good idea.

John

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on December 03, 2018, 06:11:22

I have really enjoyed the Z6 so far. One of my favorite features is the ability to assign the exposure compensation function to the focus ring on the lens.  Makes it so easy to adjust the exposure, and with the EVF, I can see what is happening, without having to chimp all the time.  I have other options for action shooting, but will give it a fair trial at my local bird sanctuary soon.

Cheers

Randy
Randy, nice Tolkien
Many thanks for the tip on EC. Subject of fine tuning Nikon F (G) lenses on the adapter has come up on several forums .  So far no definitive answer so If you have any non-"E" long lenses , your experiences will be appreciated.  I'm not counting on the Z6 as a camera for small, fast BIF but would use the 500 f4G vr with/without TC1.4 EII for sitting birds.
Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bruno Schroder on December 03, 2018, 22:51:15
I did a quick try of a few manual lenses on the Z7 over the weekend. The light was absent and I must say I'm quite pleased with the stabilization. Micro Nikkor 105/2.8 AIS
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 04, 2018, 00:01:50
Have an example of the effects of silent shutter mode on the Z6.  This is a projector that showed on a white screen behind the singer.  The background should be a solid blue with light blue circles.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: pluton on December 04, 2018, 04:33:33
Have an example of the effects of silent shutter mode on the Z6.  This is a projector that showed on a white screen behind the singer.  The background should be a solid blue with light blue circles.
I note that the shutter speed was 1/500th.  This kind of frozen partial display illumination is not unexpected at that shutter speed, be it global, rolling electronic, or traveling slit.  The capture of this source might look radically different at 1/60, for example.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 04, 2018, 04:52:22
I note that the shutter speed was 1/500th.  This kind of frozen partial display illumination is not unexpected at that shutter speed, be it global, rolling electronic, or traveling slit.  The capture of this source might look radically different at 1/60, for example.

true.  given the lighting and that I was using the Nikon 300/4.5 AI lens, I wanted to keep the shutter speed realistic to an actual shooting condition.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: charlie on December 04, 2018, 05:49:29
As Keith mentioned, strange things happen with projectors & fast shutter speeds.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: chambeshi on December 04, 2018, 07:16:56
In reply to Woody, whose post has now dropped back a page.  Just want to make sure that someone says what an engaging picture the photo of the little monkey is.  Didn't want it to disappear into the thread without trace.

Other than that, don't own a Z6 or Z7, no plan to buy one.  But will be glad to come back to all this information some time in the indefinite future if that seems like a good idea.

John

Thank You :-)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 06, 2018, 00:13:45
   I have used the z6 and d750 today side by side with the 24-70 2.8 vr. There is a big difference  in how both bodies handle the same lens. Z6 files look much clear, more spot on with the autofocus and I don´t know if there is some auto twerking of the images but the also make the same lens look sharper  ??? Anyone has this kind of experience with this or other lenses?
     
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 06, 2018, 02:11:25
   I have used the z6 and d750 today side by side with the 24-70 2.8 vr. There is a big difference  in how both bodies handle the same lens. Z6 files look much clear, more spot on with the autofocus and I don´t know if there is some auto twerking of the images but the also make the same lens look sharper  ??? Anyone has this kind of experience with this or other lenses?
   

D750 still has an AA filter, while Z6 doesn't.  That could make difference.  Z6 has the advantage of focusing simply because it focuses on the sensor itself.  That said, I would check out the AF adjustment of D750 and/or the lens.  Yes, Z6 doesn't need such a procedure, which is one of the great advantages of mirrorless system.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 06, 2018, 02:42:55
I thought the z6 did have low pass filter and z7 didn't. I'm going to look into af adjustment but I also tried the d750 with live view af and manual focus with 100%magnification, still difference.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 06, 2018, 03:25:06
D750 still has an AA filter, while Z6 doesn't.  That could make difference.  Z6 has the advantage of focusing simply because it focuses on the sensor itself.  That said, I would check out the AF adjustment of D750 and/or the lens.  Yes, Z6 doesn't need such a procedure, which is one of the great advantages of mirrorless system.

I believe the Z6 DOES have an AA filter, while the Z7 DOES NOT.   I feel that any sharpness gain between images is more likely due to focus accuracy of the contrast detect systems being able to fine tune the exact focus on the sensor plane.

I've noticed this on all the mirrorless cameras I've used.  If you can dial in the PDAF on a DSLR with AF fine tune, they tend to not have any difference worth mentioning.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 06, 2018, 12:50:18
I thought the z6 did have low pass filter and z7 didn't. I'm going to look into af adjustment but I also tried the d750 with live view af and manual focus with 100%magnification, still difference.

I believe the Z6 DOES have an AA filter, while the Z7 DOES NOT.   I feel that any sharpness gain between images is more likely due to focus accuracy of the contrast detect systems being able to fine tune the exact focus on the sensor plane.

I've noticed this on all the mirrorless cameras I've used.  If you can dial in the PDAF on a DSLR with AF fine tune, they tend to not have any difference worth mentioning.

My bad!  I confirmed that Z6 does have an AA filter.  Sorry for the confusion!   :-[
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 06, 2018, 15:12:43
The 'Z' adapter for the mighty Oude Delft Rayxar 65 mm f/0.75 lens is now ready and I gave it a spin today.

Meet my friendly neighbour, Smret from Eritrea. She thought -3C was very cold and had attired accordingly. A perfect test subject for the 65/0.75.

(Z7, entire frame, downscaled)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: atpaula on December 06, 2018, 15:21:23
Very nice portrait. The oof borders are from lens or pp?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 06, 2018, 15:24:30
Straight off the camera. No extras ....

Do remember the nominal aperture is f/0.75. Thus forget about 'DOF' - it doesn't exist.

I take the opportunity to state that the shallow register distance (16mm) of the Z cameras really makes a difference when one experiments adding exotic lenses to it. I could make the 65mm focus further away, but vignetting would be very severe and the danger of snagging the shutter curtain is not to be ignored.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 06, 2018, 16:00:16
Spiegel im Spiegel (or mirrorless on mirrorless)

The hauntingly beautiful almost unendurably meditative work "Spiegel im Spiegel" by Estonian composer Arvo Pärt emanates from my loudspeakers. I'm trying the 11-27.5 Nikkor (CX) on my Z7. There is control neither of aperture nor focusing, of course, but the combination makes an image never the less.

If you are not familiar with this music, try here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV4LlCtvgwE
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on December 06, 2018, 16:45:04
Thank you for this link  -  yes, the music is indeed hauntingly beautiful.  A nice track to finish what has been a difficult day, not helped at all by 36 Deg C summer temperatures.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 06, 2018, 16:51:38
Outside now is -6C. Perhaps there will be snow. We live indeed in different worlds ...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: armando_m on December 06, 2018, 17:05:19
   I have used the z6 and d750 today side by side with the 24-70 2.8 vr. There is a big difference  in how both bodies handle the same lens. Z6 files look much clear, more spot on with the autofocus and I don´t know if there is some auto twerking of the images but the also make the same lens look sharper  ??? Anyone has this kind of experience with this or other lenses?
   
you meant tweaking ?

Pretty sure if the camera was doing auto twerking it will be rather difficult to use it hand held  ;D ;D ;D

ps: sorry couldn't resist using the typo for a funny comment
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: armando_m on December 06, 2018, 17:09:04
The 'Z' adapter for the mighty Oude Delft Rayxar 65 mm f/0.75 lens is now ready and I gave it a spin today.

Meet my friendly neighbour, Smret from Eritrea. She thought -3C was very cold and had attired accordingly. A perfect test subject for the 65/0.75.

(Z7, entire frame, downscaled)
Beautiful portrait

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 06, 2018, 19:02:26
Spiegel im Spiegel (or mirrorless on mirrorless)

The hauntingly beautiful almost unendurably meditative work "Spiegel im Spiegel" by Estonian composer Arvo Pärt emanates from my loudspeakers. I'm trying the 11-27.5 Nikkor (CX) on my Z7. There is control neither of aperture nor focusing, of course, but the combination makes an image never the less.

If you are not familiar with this music, try here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV4LlCtvgwE

Thank you for the link, Birna.  I know some pieces by Arvo Pärt and have attended a press meeting with him in Tokyo.  But this serene piece was new to me.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 06, 2018, 19:55:43
What was I thinking...  ::) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 06, 2018, 21:06:40
Have to be careful with the speed of the camera. Tried out my first rehearsal with the z6 today. 1186 images and some video, normal and 120 fps. 20% of battery left by the way. No problem I could tell with fluorescent light with silent shutter at 1/400-1/640. Auto flicker reduction on.
   
    Question: is there much difference, if at all, shooting 12bit vs 14bits when shooting iso 1600 and above?


   Have to figure out how to make the af work for dancers. Trying af-c area kind of work but have to get use to it. Auto everything I have to get use to also. Today I finally got to experience the learning curve coming from a d750 and d500

   
 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 06, 2018, 22:20:11
I'm in the same situation.  I need to find some valid subjects for testing out the AF-C.  AF-S I'm perfectly happy with.
Just, this time of year - those opportunities for me are few and far between.  I might have to just go out and track some moving cars in traffic or something.   lol
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on December 06, 2018, 22:46:36
I'm in the same situation.  I need to find some valid subjects for testing out the AF-C.  AF-S I'm perfectly happy with.
Just, this time of year - those opportunities for me are few and far between.  I might have to just go out and track some moving cars in traffic or something.   lol

Isn't AF-C where Hogan reported that he had AF problems when the subject was in shade and the background was in the Sun?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 06, 2018, 23:26:12
Yes.

  My specific problem so far is with where the camera starts to focus. The whole area in auto is to unpredictable and the smaller ones are slow to move around.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 06, 2018, 23:27:41
Towards the evening the promised snow fall commenced. I spent an enjoyable hour driving my little red car on snow-filled slippery roads, with the car stereo at full blast doing Marek Bilinski: "Po Drugiej Stronie Światła"* from the album ''E = MC2''. Haven't had this much fun in a long time, very invigorating and a reminder of why I love this country so much.

Snow depicted with Z7 + FTZ + 200/2 AFS (800 ISO, f/2, 1/10 sec, hand held).
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvCmmXUr36E
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 06, 2018, 23:32:40
Isn't AF-C where Hogan reported that he had AF problems when the subject was in shade and the background was in the Sun?

I believe so, but I never use the fully automated focusibg modes.  I'm normally in either single point or d9 or d25.  Maybe group sometimes on the D500. 

So if single point AF-C and the d9 equivalent are good, that is my question.  And even then, this is going to be the wide to medium lensed camera.  The D500 is going to be doing the heavy lift for for tracking action.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on December 06, 2018, 23:42:51
I believe so, but I never use the fully automated focusibg modes.  I'm normally in either single point or d9 or d25.  Maybe group sometimes on the D500. 

So if single point AF-C and the d9 equivalent are good, that is my question.  And even then, this is going to be the wide to medium lensed camera.  The D500 is going to be doing the heavy lift for for tracking action.

Gotcha, thanks. I have enjoyed the Z examples that you've posted, keep 'em coming!   :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 07, 2018, 00:47:09
Birna, bravo. Again
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bill Mellen on December 07, 2018, 01:06:44
Thanks everyone for the extensive feedback and excess temptation....  :)

I stopped by our local Best Buy and they had a Z6 on display.  Handled it, loved it and ordered one with the 24-70 and FTZ adapter on the spot. I should be able to pick it up at the store next Friday when I am back in town.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: BEZ on December 07, 2018, 01:21:59
B, ZZZ0411 is fascinating  ....my eyes know what they are looking at but don't want to see. I have settled on it being a close up of polar bear fur in a snowstorm.
I have gone back to the image a few times and now that is all I can see. And yes I realise I am talking utter nonsense.

The photograph in fact freezes a reality our eyes can only partially glimpse. Well done!

Cheers
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Randy Stout on December 07, 2018, 02:41:17
BEZ

I absolutely see the polar bear fur as well. Fun one

Randy
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Chris Dees on December 07, 2018, 08:41:39
It's like a van Gogh painting. Especially under the lantern.
Same for I'm returning again and again to this image. Vert, very beautiful!!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on December 07, 2018, 09:00:37
Birna, bravo. Again
+1
Your past hobby with cars is not forgotten ;)
Very nice picture
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hermann on December 07, 2018, 11:01:53
B, ZZZ0411 is fascinating  ....my eyes know what they are looking at but don't want to see. I have settled on it being a close up of polar bear fur in a snowstorm.
I have gone back to the image a few times and now that is all I can see. And yes I realise I am talking utter nonsense.

That's funny. When I looked at that shot last night I couldn't stop looking and seeing all sorts of things in that image. Went back to it first think in the morning. Same again.

A great shot. Fascinating.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hermann on December 07, 2018, 11:36:47
I'm still on the fence with regard to the Z6/Z7. There's a lot of stuff I really like about these cameras, and ever since using the 1V1 I really wanted to have a more capable mirrorless camera. Even tried an Olympus 4/3 for a while that didn't really work for me as I'm too used to the Nikon UI and couldn't be bothered with the Olympus UI. So the Z6/Z7 seems like the answer, especially because it can take all my old AIS lenses via the FTZ adapter. I'm not even bothered about the lack of EXIF data when using the adapter (none of my old manual lenses are chipped). I'm not a pro, and if the EDIF data are missing on my shots I'm not too worried.

However, most of my current F mount lenses are DX. I also rely, at least to some extent, of the reach of the smaller sensor for wildlife photography. I know I can shoot the new Nikons in DX mode, however, with the Z6 (the model I'm most interested in) that would cut the resolution to ~10 megapixels. So I'd have to either get a couple of FX lenses or rely on my old AIS lenses.

That leads to my question: I've seen quite a few shots taken with AIS lenses - but how easy is it to focus them on the Z6? And how fast can you focus an old manual lens on the Z6/Z7? I find focussing my old lenses on my Nikon DSLRs pretty tedious as I find I can't really rely on the green dot, especially not in bad light.

The lenses I'm thinking of are my old longer lenses like the AIS 5.6/400 IF-ED, the 4.5/300 IF-ED and possibly the 5.6/600 IF-ED, but also the 4/105 Micro. I'd also use all my other old AIS lenses of course, like the 2/35mm, the 2,8/55mm micro and so on ... All these lenses have been sitting in my cupboard for years now, and getting a Nikon Z may give them a new lease of life. If the focusing is fast enough and reliable.

Hermann
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: elsid on December 07, 2018, 11:39:11
Hello Birna,
Having seen you drive on the mountains of Crete, I can imagine how you do it on your mountains.
Great shot, unique.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 07, 2018, 11:42:08
Hermann: most older Nikkors are very easy to focus on the Z cameras. Even the fast f/1.2 lenses.

That being said, I have no problems with these lenses on my Df either.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 07, 2018, 12:42:26
Mondrian in the winter.

Z7, AFS 200/2 + FTZ.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: aerobat on December 07, 2018, 13:11:05
Piet Mondrian - well seen Birna!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 07, 2018, 13:22:35
I'm still on the fence with regard to the Z6/Z7. There's a lot of stuff I really like about these cameras, and ever since using the 1V1 I really wanted to have a more capable mirrorless camera. Even tried an Olympus 4/3 for a while that didn't really work for me as I'm too used to the Nikon UI and couldn't be bothered with the Olympus UI. So the Z6/Z7 seems like the answer, especially because it can take all my old AIS lenses via the FTZ adapter. I'm not even bothered about the lack of EXIF data when using the adapter (none of my old manual lenses are chipped). I'm not a pro, and if the EDIF data are missing on my shots I'm not too worried.

However, most of my current F mount lenses are DX. I also rely, at least to some extent, of the reach of the smaller sensor for wildlife photography. I know I can shoot the new Nikons in DX mode, however, with the Z6 (the model I'm most interested in) that would cut the resolution to ~10 megapixels. So I'd have to either get a couple of FX lenses or rely on my old AIS lenses.

That leads to my question: I've seen quite a few shots taken with AIS lenses - but how easy is it to focus them on the Z6? And how fast can you focus an old manual lens on the Z6/Z7? I find focussing my old lenses on my Nikon DSLRs pretty tedious as I find I can't really rely on the green dot, especially not in bad light.

The lenses I'm thinking of are my old longer lenses like the AIS 5.6/400 IF-ED, the 4.5/300 IF-ED and possibly the 5.6/600 IF-ED, but also the 4/105 Micro. I'd also use all my other old AIS lenses of course, like the 2/35mm, the 2,8/55mm micro and so on ... All these lenses have been sitting in my cupboard for years now, and getting a Nikon Z may give them a new lease of life. If the focusing is fast enough and reliable.

Hermann

The peaking and punch in focus make manual lenses super easy to use.  Definitely try one out to see for yourself.  Well worth it in my opinion.  Since getting my Z6, I have not picked up and used my EM5.2 or PEN-F.  It's only been a few weeks, but still that is a telling thing for me.  I want to use it everywhere!!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on December 07, 2018, 16:14:05
I'm still on the fence with regard to the Z6/Z7. There's a lot of stuff I really like about these cameras, and ever since using the 1V1 I really wanted to have a more capable mirrorless camera. Even tried an Olympus 4/3 for a while that didn't really work for me as I'm too used to the Nikon UI and couldn't be bothered with the Olympus UI. So the Z6/Z7 seems like the answer, especially because it can take all my old AIS lenses via the FTZ adapter. I'm not even bothered about the lack of EXIF data when using the adapter (none of my old manual lenses are chipped). I'm not a pro, and if the EDIF data are missing on my shots I'm not too worried.

However, most of my current F mount lenses are DX. I also rely, at least to some extent, of the reach of the smaller sensor for wildlife photography. I know I can shoot the new Nikons in DX mode, however, with the Z6 (the model I'm most interested in) that would cut the resolution to ~10 megapixels. So I'd have to either get a couple of FX lenses or rely on my old AIS lenses.

That leads to my question: I've seen quite a few shots taken with AIS lenses - but how easy is it to focus them on the Z6? And how fast can you focus an old manual lens on the Z6/Z7? I find focussing my old lenses on my Nikon DSLRs pretty tedious as I find I can't really rely on the green dot, especially not in bad light.

The lenses I'm thinking of are my old longer lenses like the AIS 5.6/400 IF-ED, the 4.5/300 IF-ED and possibly the 5.6/600 IF-ED, but also the 4/105 Micro. I'd also use all my other old AIS lenses of course, like the 2/35mm, the 2,8/55mm micro and so on ... All these lenses have been sitting in my cupboard for years now, and getting a Nikon Z may give them a new lease of life. If the focusing is fast enough and reliable.

Hermann

A few quick thoughts - if Z series is successful (I think it has been so far) there likely will be APC format Z cameras in the future.

Focusing manual lenses on the Z6 is as good or better than DSLR. The ability to zoom the viewfinder with the touch of a button is very helpful.

In body image stabilization makes it possible to calm shaky hands or take photos in low light. I was just trying some shots this morning and it looks like with some luck - exposures handheld at 1/2 second are possible.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: John Geerts on December 07, 2018, 16:20:17
Is there a possibility to use the Auto Focus for AF-D lenses in the future?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 07, 2018, 16:24:48
Is there a possibility to use the Auto Focus for AF-D lenses in the future?

Only if someone makes another FTZ like adapter with a screw drive motor in it.  Possible, but the likelihood of that is very slim IMHO.  I think we'd get an FTZ like adapter with an aperture follower on it way before non AF-S AF adapter is available. 

I'd really love that and for Nikon to update the Z camera firmware to accept that or barring that, at least allow the aperture wheel to record the same aperture as on the lens, like the Df does.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: John Geerts on December 07, 2018, 17:21:42
Thanks for replying Andrew.  Let's see what the future will bring.  I am still in the 'experimenting phase' with the D850 so there is no urgent need to step into the new Nikon mirrorless world.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on December 07, 2018, 17:25:45
The new Z cameras seem to be able in replacing my Sony bodies but am patiently waiting for the necessary wide angle lenses and adapters to make a jump worthwhile.

Pleased to see Novoflex added the NIKZ/LEM adapter to my favourite black coated adapter lineup:
https://www.novoflex.de/de/produkte/adapter/adapterfinder/adapterfinder-produkte/nikon-z-spiegellos/adapter-leica-m-objektive-an-nikon-z-kameras.html?rgerg=31

Fits my split adapter approach perfectly as I've normalised several mounts to Leica M :)

Btw I did not like the other Novoflex adapters, using completely different materials, fit was too tight and mounting was not as smooth as the black coated adapters:
https://www.novoflex.de/de/produkte/adapter/adapterfinder/adapterfinder-produkte/camera/nikon-z-spiegellos/objectiv/38.html

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on December 07, 2018, 17:29:47
Did anybody already find a decent sensor comparison between de Z6 & 7 vs the Sony bodies?

Looking for the best balance between high ISO and DR and DxO is busy relocating which apparently takes them ages to do  ::)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bruno Schroder on December 07, 2018, 18:07:20

That leads to my question: I've seen quite a few shots taken with AIS lenses - but how easy is it to focus them on the Z6? And how fast can you focus an old manual lens on the Z6/Z7? I find focussing my old lenses on my Nikon DSLRs pretty tedious as I find I can't really rely on the green dot, especially not in bad light.

The lenses I'm thinking of are my old longer lenses like the AIS 5.6/400 IF-ED, the 4.5/300 IF-ED and possibly the 5.6/600 IF-ED, but also the 4/105 Micro. I'd also use all my other old AIS lenses of course, like the 2/35mm, the 2,8/55mm micro and so on ... All these lenses have been sitting in my cupboard for years now, and getting a Nikon Z may give them a new lease of life. If the focusing is fast enough and reliable.

Hermann

I've tried a Z7 with a few manual lenses, including the 600/5.6 on a monopod, last weekend with satisfying results. I find it easier to focus than on the DF. With the 100% zoom and 200% zoom on the focus point with F1 and F2, focus is pretty obvious, despite the amplified shake of the stabilization. At least you know it works :).

If the rain stops, I'll go out again this weekend and can post a few pictures.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hermann on December 07, 2018, 20:41:29
A few quick thoughts - if Z series is successful (I think it has been so far) there likely will be APC format Z cameras in the future.

I think so, too. In the long run the mirrorless cameras will take over, no doubt about that. However, nobody knows how long it will take until Nikon starts making DX mirrorless cameras, and nobody knows if there will ever be mirrorless cameras in that format that won't just be entry level models. And then there's a chance they'll be crippled, just like the present entry level Nikon DSLRs. Still, maybe I should stick to my present setup for a while and see what happens.

Focusing manual lenses on the Z6 is as good or better than DSLR. The ability to zoom the viewfinder with the touch of a button is very helpful.
In body image stabilization makes it possible to calm shaky hands or take photos in low light. I was just trying some shots this morning and it looks like with some luck - exposures handheld at 1/2 second are possible.

Excellent. Easy focusing of manual lenses, that's what I'm looking for. And the in body stabilization is of course the icing on the cake.

Hermann
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: antonoat on December 08, 2018, 01:28:12
Towards the evening the promised snow fall commenced. I spent an enjoyable hour driving my little red car on snow-filled slippery roads, with the car stereo at full blast doing Marek Bilinski: "Po Drugiej Stronie Światła"* from the album ''E = MC2''. Haven't had this much fun in a long time, very invigorating and a reminder of why I love this country so much.

Snow depicted with Z7 + FTZ + 200/2 AFS (800 ISO, f/2, 1/10 sec, hand held).
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvCmmXUr36E
thanks for your thoughts re the camera, the music is most agreeable!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bruno Schroder on December 08, 2018, 12:02:47
A few quick shots with the 400/5.6, handheld, leaning on a wall.

I find it quite handholdable. 100% and 200% zoom are useable despite the stabilization shake. At first, it was strange to not see the image becoming stable when VR kicks in but I easily got used to it. I did shoot this in "real life" conditions, as I would be out in the woods with little time to focus. Absolutely no esthetic consideration, my only goal was to assess how stabilization and focus work.

Z7 400/5.6 at f5.6 100% center crop of the intended focus point. ViewNX-i conversion, no PP except crop, which is awfully slow with Z7 NEF
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 08, 2018, 12:06:47
The built-in VR obviously works -- hand-holding a 400mm lens is tricky, in particular the rather light-weight 400/5.6 Nikkor.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 08, 2018, 12:22:53
Isn't AF-C where Hogan reported that he had AF problems when the subject was in shade and the background was in the Sun?

No problems apparently, using the AFS 200/2 in this case. A snowy white-out background has to suffice as a sun replacement as the solar disc hasn't been seen around here for a while ...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 08, 2018, 12:30:48
The 35-200/3.5~4.5 Nikkor is the first one of the older lenses that I feel is not entirely up to the challenge of the Z7's 45 MPix sensor. I did some landscapes at 200mm setting and they became quite soft. However, at close range results were much better. Perhaps this is a lens better suited to the Df?

I also notice that matrix metering of the Z7 tends to underexpose snow scenery. That was somewhat unexpected as the motif should be easy to handle by the matrix metering algorithm. The exposures is consistently -1 EV off. Well within the dynamic range of the Z camera, of course, but food for thought nonetheless.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bruno Schroder on December 08, 2018, 12:34:57
Indeed, it works. It also works with the 105/4 on PN1.

A few quick shots with the 600/5.6 AI-S. I find it not handholdable. I really need a monopod. At minimum focusing distance, 5.5m, I can't use the 200%zoom, the stabilization shake is too large. It is better at 15m but, for me, only 100% works. I did shoot this in "real life" conditions, as I would be out in the woods with little time to focus. Absolutely no esthetic consideration, my only goal was to assess how stabilization and focus work. On the last 2 pictures, if you know how active these birds are, you have a good idea of the time I had to focus.

Z7 600/5.6 at f5.6 100% center crop of the intended focus point. ViewNX-i conversion, no PP except crop, which is awfully slow with Z7 NEF
Last picture is full size, for context and relative size of the crop.


Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 08, 2018, 13:32:26
Don't the Z bodies let you input the focal length of the attached MF lenses, so that the movement of the stabilization is optimized for the lens?  All Panasonic and Olympus bodies with IBIS have that function...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bruno Schroder on December 08, 2018, 14:40:14
Don't the Z bodies let you input the focal length of the attached MF lenses, so that the movement of the stabilization is optimized for the lens?  All Panasonic and Olympus bodies with IBIS have that function...

Indeed it does and it is perfectly fine in normal viewing mode.  What I'm referring to is the amplification of the stabilization movement at 100% or 200% focus peaking. With the 600mm, for something as small as a blue tit at 17 meters, the amplitude is still too large at 200%, at least for my rather unsteady hand. I can manage 400mm though.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on December 08, 2018, 18:45:33
Indeed it does and it is perfectly fine in normal viewing mode.  What I'm referring to is the amplification of the stabilization movement at 100% or 200% focus peaking. With the 600mm, for something as small as a blue tit at 17 meters, the amplitude is still too large at 200%, at least for my rather unsteady hand. I can manage 400mm though.

Handholding the old AI 300mm f/2.8 is possible, but I agree that when zoomed to 200% it is not possible to have a steady view. This does not mean you can’t focus or take a good photo, just that there is more movement in the finder than I’m comfortable with. Indeed, it allows very precise focus as long as you have a subject that you can keep in the finder. 600 must be quite a challenge!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on December 08, 2018, 19:37:39
My first real trial trip today. Here's one shot of some vegetational species.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on December 08, 2018, 22:41:06
The 35-200/3.5~4.5 Nikkor is the first one of the older lenses that I feel is not entirely up to the challenge of the Z7's 45 MPix sensor. I did some landscapes at 200mm setting and they became quite soft. However, at close range results were much better. Perhaps this is a lens better suited to the Df?

I also notice that matrix metering of the Z7 tends to underexpose snow scenery. That was somewhat unexpected as the motif should be easy to handle by the matrix metering algorithm. The exposures is consistently -1 EV off. Well within the dynamic range of the Z camera, of course, but food for thought nonetheless.
My D500 and D800 also have problems with snow, tend to underexpose, May even more than -1, my D700 was spot on in the scenery.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 09, 2018, 11:17:19
Strangely enough, shooting snow scenes with my AFS 200/2 yielded much more correct exposures. However, in this case contrast was higher as some trees had direct sunlight whilst others were in the shade. I'll post some examples after my morning coffee break.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 09, 2018, 11:40:58
Here is AFS 200/2 with Z7, snow landscape with shade and sunlight. Auto exposure has expanded the histogram of levels perfectly (in the NEF).

This is the living room view, by the way. This is how December should look at my latitude. Sunlight is soft as the sun is near the horizon.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 09, 2018, 13:42:05
Multi-exposures on the Z cameras evidently is designed completely different from what I'm used to with my "normal" DSLRs. There are a lot more options, not every one very intuitive, and you cannot get a final NEF with the result. Instead, you get a jpg of the size you have set the camera to record, and optionally each individual exposure as separate NEFs. Not how I would like to see this feature implemented, that's for sure. However, if you have the stamina and patience, the individual NEFs can be processed and then assembled as layers in Photoshop or similar application.

I need to read the manual, and digest the information contained therein, before I can make a final evaluation of the multi-exposure capabilities of my Z's.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Seapy on December 09, 2018, 15:14:23
I wouldn't bother with the manual Birna, that image is more than good enough.   ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 09, 2018, 16:14:14
My worries were more about the feature(s) implemented than the final result, the later being dependent on the user not the camera :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 09, 2018, 16:20:39
you say it is not possible to shine light on the same piece of film more than once? The camera always records independent nefs and mixes a jpeg from them? That seems more like in camera editing than multi exposure.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 09, 2018, 16:24:30
Among the many options available is adding input on a pixel by pixel basis if I understand correctly. Meaning, this is the digital equivalent to exposing the same piece of film more than once. If an area gets overexposed, it will remain so. Do note there are other modes such as "average gain", that simply calculates a mean of the light intensities at a given point. This mode is very alien to film practice.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 09, 2018, 21:12:11
I remember in Scotland I used the superb implementation of the D500 to shoot the "ten castles"
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Arne Hvaring on December 09, 2018, 21:20:02
Has anyone found a way to get out of magnified view by half pressing the shutter button? This is the way it is implemented in all mirrorless cameras I know (Sony, Panasonoic, Olympus), but by default the Z7 requires a second push on the chosen magnify button.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 09, 2018, 21:47:52
Has anyone found a way to get out of magnified view by half pressing the shutter button? This is the way it is implemented in all mirrorless cameras I know (Sony, Panasonoic, Olympus), but by default the Z7 requires a second push on the chosen magnify button.

Similarly, I couldn't find the way to assign the (pushing of the) joystick to get the AF point back to the center: you have to push the "OK" button to do that, which is frustrating.  GH5 allowed to do that as default, which it more natural and reasonable.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: fish_shooter on December 09, 2018, 21:53:47
One has to press the minus button that is just below the plus button. The alternative that I have programed into my Z6 is to use the lower fn button to do 100%. Pressing it again exits the mode. Same button can be used both for taking and for chimping.
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: fish_shooter on December 10, 2018, 00:35:26
It stopped raining and shifted to snow then started to clear. Ran out to local park about 500m away from home with the Leica WATE lens and got off just a few shots before it started snowing again. Last shots have OOF water drops from melted snow on lens so I quit. I posted a "clearing storm" shot done at the infinity setting and one of a fallen spruce tree (happened within the last week - we had storm force winds along with the rain) on my flickr site here:   https://www.flickr.com/photos/tomkline/46200143552/in/photostream/
Both shots at 16mm and f/8.

WATE = wide angle Tri Elmar. It is a 16-21mm zoom lens with detents at 16, 18, and 21mm.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hermann on December 10, 2018, 00:38:33
A few quick shots with the 400/5.6, handheld, leaning on a wall.

I find it quite handholdable. 100% and 200% zoom are useable despite the stabilization shake. At first, it was strange to not see the image becoming stable when VR kicks in but I easily got used to it. I did shoot this in "real life" conditions, as I would be out in the woods with little time to focus. Absolutely no esthetic consideration, my only goal was to assess how stabilization and focus work.

Thanks a lot for those shots. It certainly looks as though the Z6/Z7 work really well with those old lenses.

Hermann
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 10, 2018, 00:51:00
Sure, I'll do it tomorrow. Now off for a nightcap and a book.

Very easy, took me 10 minutes once I had the parts and figured out how to do it.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 10, 2018, 04:57:10
https://youtu.be/La9wHvWLPT8 (https://youtu.be/La9wHvWLPT8)

Just thought I'd share.  Video from Z6 and 24-70S.
No grading or sharpening.  Transitions and slow motion done in premiere elements 2019.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 11, 2018, 20:14:45
The unbelievable happened: I got my Z6 this afternoon, after it being in transit  in a seemingly never-ending loop between Oslo and my small home town for nearly 2 weeks now. Back and forth. Back and forth. I finally managed to track its whereabouts today and managed to intercept the parcel at a crucial point so I could lay my hands on it. An idiocy generated by PostNord, certainly the most incompetent carrier in northern Europe.

My complaints about the missing delivery even were escalated to Nikon Europe and only then I managed to get a tracking number in order to unravel the mystery.

Oh well. It is here, charging its battery and waiting to be decorated with a bright green "6" numeral to differentiate it against my Z7, which carries a corresponding red "7".  The advantages of surplus nail polish :D

Tomorrow I'll drop by my Nikon dealer in Oslo and pick up the 50/1.8 S waiting for me there. It'll be interesting to learn how it behaves.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 11, 2018, 21:10:02
As the z6 is slowly getting in my workflow I´ll be interested in your opinion about their strengths and shortcomings compared to each other. Specially if you find any difference in the af behavior, high iso capabilities, and what those extra pixels are worth.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 11, 2018, 21:12:59
Those points were already foremost in my mind, Paco.

I do hope the Z6 will be the day-to-day work machine, in combination with my Df,  and the Z7 conveniently set up to do mainly close-ups & photomacrography in the studio.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 11, 2018, 21:41:45
Testing ISO 51200 on the Z6. Looks quite useful to me.

By the way, the screen image is of the 50/1.8S I'm collecting tomorrow.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on December 11, 2018, 21:57:23
My 50/1.8S arrived yesterday. Some limited testing inside the house only, but it became already clear that it is already very very good over the whole field wide open. The thicker barrel (compared to the 35/1.8S) handles imho a little better, and surprisingly the hood is a little shorter compared to again the 35.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 11, 2018, 22:01:38
The MTF graph already published for the 50 indicates it ought to be an excellent performer. I'm looking forward to learn its good or bad properties tomorrow. I wonder what its concave front element means in terms of highlight blur shapes, in particular into the corners.

An extension tube for the Z range seems a useful gadget to have, if it is equipped with pass-through contacts.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: fish_shooter on December 12, 2018, 01:12:50
Stopped precipitating today for a bit. Did some more testing of my Z6 with Leica M lenses. This time with a 35mm Summilux ASPH. Summilux is (or was as they recently released an f/1.7 Summilux lens for micro4/3) Leicaspeak for f/1.4 lenses. This lens came out in the 90s and was Leica's first lens with molded aspherical elements - denoted by ASPH in the name. There is a newer version out with floating elements but I have the older one. Pix shot at either f/1.4 or 5.6 in auto-ISO which I used to reconstruct aperture used. The shot with the dead alder leaf in the center was done at 0.7 meters which is the minimum focus distance and one disadvantage of using Leica M lenses. Shots can be found here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tomkline/with/31341114667/
BTW the fallen tree I shot a few days ago (WATE lens test shot) has been removed except for the stump which was righted to fill the hole.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on December 12, 2018, 02:11:44

An extension tube for the Z range seems a useful gadget to have, if it is equipped with pass-through contacts.

I’m wondering about the possibility of a Teleconverter designed for F lenses but with Z flange distance and mount. It would require different optics, but it might keep length down.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: fish_shooter on December 12, 2018, 02:35:05
We seem to have negative teleconverters already. Kipon just announced- https://nikonrumors.com/2018/12/11/kipon-announced-8-different-baveyes-focal-reducers-for-nikon-z-mount.aspx/
A long time ago (decades) I had a Hasselblad to Nikon F adapter. Even with just the 80mm lens it was ungainly and heavy so got rid of it. Maybe if I owned a Superachromatic things would have been different, ROTFL.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on December 12, 2018, 05:50:25
A set of modern day metal extension tubes with pass through contacts for the F range would also still be most useful.

Whilst third party providers have such F range extension tubes, the mechanical fit and quality of the ones that I have seen are woeful to say the least and many of them are made of plastics that lack the necessary rigidity to carry heavier lenses without flexing.


...................................

An extension tube for the Z range seems a useful gadget to have, if it is equipped with pass-through contacts.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Alaun on December 12, 2018, 18:18:21
JUST UPDATED, ACR can now handle the Z6  :) ;) 8)

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 12, 2018, 18:57:15
A set of modern day metal extension tubes with pass through contacts for the F range would also still be most useful.
Whilst third party providers have such F range extension tubes, the mechanical fit and quality of the ones that I have seen are woeful to say the least and many of them are made of plastics that lack the necessary rigidity to carry heavier lenses without flexing.

Dr. Lens makes full contact Nikon extension tubes from Nikon teleconverters: http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=4544.0

I own two of these and find the 23mm (TC14E deboned) very very useful, esp in combination with the Nikkor 4/300PF
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Wally on December 12, 2018, 21:49:38
First review of the new Z 50mm, compared against the Zeiss Otus:
https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-z-50mm-f1-8s-review/
My GAS has jumped up after reading this test  8)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on December 12, 2018, 23:26:47
One gotta test for the dreaded "stripes" when pushed. Here +5EV in ACR...good enough for me. 24-70/4 @ 70mm. EXIF: ISO 100, f/7.1, 6s, -0.67EV.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on December 12, 2018, 23:51:43
Thanks Frank.  Yes, I was aware of Erik's solution to this issue.

Actually 23mm is a useful intermediate extension between that of the PK-12 and the PK-13 tubes.

(BTW, the extensions of Nikon's metal tubes being PK-11 / PK-11A with 8mm, the larger PK-12 with 14mm, and the PK-13 with 27.5mm.  The PN-11 is larger again at 52.5mm.)


Dr. Lens makes full contact Nikon extension tubes from Nikon teleconverters: http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=4544.0

I own two of these and find the 23mm (TC14E deboned) very very useful, esp in combination with the Nikkor 4/300PF
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 13, 2018, 11:33:32
Picked up my copy of the 50/1.8 S-Line Nikkor last night and had occasion to pull off some shots in the darkness on my return home.

Short story, this is probably the best 50mm ever made by Nikon. Really wets my appetite for getting to know the 58mm f/0.95 Noct S due to arrive in early 2019 (and pre-ordered).

Sharpness extends all over the frame even with lens set to f/1.8, more or less the same behaviour as my 35/.8S. Handling of point light sources is excellent and coma is very low - my first impression is the new lens trounces the old faithful Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2 in this respect. Early days yet, but I am enthusiastic about the 50.

Nikon Z6, 50/1.8S, f/1.8, 1/160 sec, 2500 ISO
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 13, 2018, 11:54:51
Nikon Z6, 50/1.8S, f/1.8, 1/160 sec, 2500 ISO

Are you happy with the high iso of the Z6? I mean really high 36k, 51k, 80k or 100k?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 13, 2018, 12:07:11
Are you happy with the high iso of the Z6? I mean really high 36k, 51k, 80k or 100k?

ot really done any in-depth testing for the high ISO speeds yet, plus Photo Ninja hasn't been updated to process Z6 NEFs (only does Z7 files). Thus I have to fall back on the jpgs and who knows how these have been doctored by the EXPEED 6 machinery inside the z6.

50K (51200) ISO is a calibrated setting and works pretty well as assessed from the jpgs.  Same can be said for the Hi ISO's, however colour saturation starts to decline and image noise is more visible. Still, the 100K(102400) ISO would be useful for the odd shot if required.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 13, 2018, 12:28:30
ot really done any in-depth testing for the high ISO speeds yet, plus Photo Ninja hasn't been updated to process Z6 NEFs (only does Z7 files). Thus I have to fall back on the jpgs and who knows how these have been doctored by the EXPEED 6 machinery inside the z6.

50K (51200) ISO is a calibrated setting and works pretty well as assessed from the jpgs.  Same can be said for the Hi ISO's, however colour saturation starts to decline and image noise is more visible. Still, the 100K(102400) ISO would be useful for the odd shot if required.

The 100k shots from the D5 are very useful if you switch off the Noise Reduction. I guess the Z6 should outperform the D5 in this respect.

Can you use the Capture NX-D for processing the Z6 files? After buying the D500 & D850 I really learned to appreciate NX-D for preprocessing, Photoshop CC for finishing

bill claaf has measured

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon%20D5,Nikon%20Z%206,Nikon%20Z%207
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on December 13, 2018, 13:03:40
Picked up my copy of the 50/1.8 S-Line Nikkor last night and had occasion to pull off some shots in the darkness on my return home.

Short story, this is probably the best 50mm ever made by Nikon. Really wets my appetite for getting to know the 58mm f/0.95 Noct S due to arrive in early 2019 (and pre-ordered).

Sharpness extends all over the frame even with lens set to f/1.8, more or less the same behaviour as my 35/.8S. Handling of point light sources is excellent and coma is very low - my first impression is the new lens trounces the old faithful Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2 in this respect. Early days yet, but I am enthusiastic about the 50.

Nikon Z6, 50/1.8S, f/1.8, 1/160 sec, 2500 ISO
Maybe the new lenses should be the reason for buying into the Z cameras, very nice quality, my 50/f1.2 would not make such a clean image even at f1.8
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 13, 2018, 16:24:48
Maybe the new lenses should be the reason for buying into the Z cameras, very nice quality, my 50/f1.2 would not make such a clean image even at f1.8

I am very happy with what I already own. Later a silent super high ISO camera like the Z6 might be an option. Not as an early adopter though...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 13, 2018, 20:11:49
Another question arised:

Is the distortion of the F-mount lenses (especially of the wide and standard zooms) corrected as default when mounted via FTZ adapter?  I'm pretty sure that the distortion of the native Z lenses are corrected as default, as with the mirrorless cameras of other brands.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 14, 2018, 13:08:36
There is a distortion control setting somewhere in the menus. I have turned it off.

Nikon Z6, 50/1.8S, f/1.8, 2500 ISO
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 14, 2018, 13:32:46
There is a distortion control setting somewhere in the menus. I have turned it off.

Thank you, Birna, for the confirmation.

Nice christmas tree a la Matisse style!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 14, 2018, 13:39:09
Another early afternoon test with the Z6/50mm f1.8 at f/1.8. 2500ISO.

In focus, then defocused. The nice blur circles contribute to the overall smooth bokeh. The "cat's eye" phenomenon is detectable, but gentle in appearance.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on December 14, 2018, 13:53:04
Looking forward to see the Z7/6 in Scotland  :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 14, 2018, 14:07:54
You certainly will, Bent. More than one of these, I wager a guess :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Erik Lund on December 14, 2018, 14:18:54
Congratulations on the new Z6 and 1.st 50mm both looks like strong performers, the blur circles of the 50mm f/1.8 looks very large, please compare it to ordinary similar 50mm when you have time og course :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 14, 2018, 14:38:03
Test with Z6 at various ISO (equivalence) settings.

Hi-2 200K ('204600')

Hi-1 100K ('102400')

50K ISO (51200)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 14, 2018, 14:47:17
Congratulations on the new Z6 and 1.st 50mm both looks like strong performers, the blur circles of the 50mm f/1.8 looks very large, please compare it to ordinary similar 50mm when you have time og course :)

Can someone explain to my how these "blur circles" (which I take are Circles of Confusion) work. By saying they are very large, is that good or bad, please?

Also, I am very interested in the NIKKOR Z 58mm f/0.95 S NOCT. Where can one preorder it?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 14, 2018, 14:54:29
Blur circles are a function of the physical size of the aperture, its shape, *and* image magnification. Smooth blur circles that overlap make smooth out-of-focus rendition.

I have a pre-order of the 58/0.95 Noct via my personal Nikon contact at Nikon Nordic. The Nikon subsidiaries do not take normal pre-orders for this lens yet, as it still is on a prototype stage of development.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 14, 2018, 15:04:20
Blur circles are a function of the physical size of the aperture, its shape, *and* image magnification. Smooth blur circles that overlap make smooth out-of-focus rendition.

I have a pre-order of the 58/0.95 Noct via my personal Nikon contact at Nikon Nordic. The Nikon subsidiaries do not take normal pre-orders for this lens yet, as it still is on a prototype stage of development.

Thanks. So what does Erik's comment suggest by saying they are very large for the new 50mm S. Based on your comments, I am thinking of getting that lens. It is inexpensive enough for the quality that you suggest. And, most of my MANY lenses have been (in the past) at your suggestion. LOL.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Erik Lund on December 14, 2018, 15:05:36
Here are some samples from the Noct Nikkor F-Mount 58mm f/1.2 in the post its compare to the shorter focal lengt same aperture 50mm f/1.2 Ais at same camerea subject distance,,,
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,3183.msg45381.html#msg45381

In the thread are several showcases of the Noct blur circle Bokeh, in fore and back grund.
We can hope the new Noct Z-Mount surpass this performance! It should since it's a real showcase Nikkor!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: fish_shooter on December 14, 2018, 18:49:02
Can someone explain to my how these "blur circles" (which I take are Circles of Confusion) work. By saying they are very large, is that good or bad, please?

Also, I am very interested in the NIKKOR Z 58mm f/0.95 S NOCT. Where can one preorder it?

Circle of confusion is the criterion used to calculate depth of field. A good basic photography text will cover this. Not having one on hand...
See this:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_confusion
Scroll down to the table to see how it varies by format. The formula used is in the paragraph just below the table. The more one blows up (enlarges) an image (negative or digital image) the smaller the coc one should use (coc is much larger for the the large formats in the table). Therefore when one pixel peeps one should use a smaller coc, hence depth of field is less. 35mm contact prints look pretty good but when you blow them up maybe not!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hermann on December 14, 2018, 19:42:41
Birna:

Those shots with the Z6 at high ISO are unbelievably good! Really remarkable.

I can only hope Nikon will make a Z with a DX sensor in the not too distant future.

Hermann

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on December 14, 2018, 21:25:53
#312, 319, and 321 are striking, IMO.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 14, 2018, 21:44:16
Test with Z6 at various ISO (equivalence) settings.

Hi-2 200K ('204600')

Hi-1 100K ('102400')

50K ISO (51200)

do you have 100% crops with NR=OFFF???

these are JPEG ooc?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bill Mellen on December 14, 2018, 22:23:32
Z6 rocks!

Not perfect but plenty good enough for me.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on December 15, 2018, 00:43:33
The Auto distortion control (Photo shooting menu) directly affects out-of-camera jpg’s; but for .NEF raw files it only records its setting in the .NEF metadata. It is up to the raw converter to honour this setting and compensate automatically for distortion or not.

It looks like “people move on, nothing to see here, same as in the DSLR’s” but there is something different with the Z cameras.

Firstly, ACR (and Lightroom) read the built-in lens profile (for both native Z-mount lenses and F-mount G and E lenses), and always correct for distortion, completely disregarding the auto distortion setting in the metadata. It does not seem possible to disable distortion correction. In my eyes unwanted, bad behaviour.

Secondly, with a Z-mount S-line lens attached, when auto distortion control is set to ON, the viewfinder and monitor image are LIVE corrected for distortion. I really had to check this a few times before I could believe my eyes. Very neat. It doesn’t work however with adapted F-mount lenses (I checked both E and G lenses).

Is it a useful feature? I think so, even when shooting raw. In many cases having a distortion corrected viewfinder image makes it just a little bit easier to keep the camera at level. And with a proper raw converter distortion correction can always be disabled.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 15, 2018, 02:15:12
The Auto distortion control (Photo shooting menu) directly affects out-of-camera jpg’s; but for .NEF raw files it only records its setting in the .NEF metadata. It is up to the raw converter to honour this setting and compensate automatically for distortion or not.

It looks like “people move on, nothing to see here, same as in the DSLR’s” but there is something different with the Z cameras.

Firstly, ACR (and Lightroom) read the built-in lens profile (for both native Z-mount lenses and F-mount G and E lenses), and always correct for distortion, completely disregarding the auto distortion setting in the metadata. It does not seem possible to disable distortion correction. In my eyes unwanted, bad behaviour.

Secondly, with a Z-mount S-line lens attached, when auto distortion control is set to ON, the viewfinder and monitor image are LIVE corrected for distortion. I really had to check this a few times before I could believe my eyes. Very neat. It doesn’t work however with adapted F-mount lenses (I checked both E and G lenses).

Is it a useful feature? I think so, even when shooting raw. In many cases having a distortion corrected viewfinder image makes it just a little bit easier to keep the camera at level. And with a proper raw converter distortion correction can always be disabled.

Eddie, thank you for sharing your detailed observation.

I had used the latest ACR until about a month ago, and do know that the automatic aberration correction based on the lens profile can be disabled (either or both for the distortion and the chromatic aberration).

I left both correction "on" when I used mirrorless cameras, but I switched "off" the distortion correction for the DSLR.

As you pointed out, what I see and frame in the EVFs or LCDs of the mirrorless cameras is the image whose distortion is already corrected, and thus my framing won't be affected during the processing.

On the other hand, what I see and frame in the OVF is the image in which nothing is corrected.  When I correct the distortion in the processing software, the framing changes, which I don't like.

If Z bodies won't correct the distortion of the F mount lenses even if they are attached with the genuine FTZ adapter, I would switch off the distortion correction in the software.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 15, 2018, 09:20:58
Additionally one needs to set Option d8 ('apply settings to live view') to ON to make the finder and monitor show the corrected view. Otherwise only jpgs are corrected. Photo Ninja politely ignores any such setting in the NEF.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on December 15, 2018, 09:35:19
Additionally one needs to set Option d8 ('apply settings to live view') to ON to make the finder and monitor show the corrected view. Otherwise only jpgs are corrected. Photo Ninja politely ignores any such setting in the NEF.

Yes, forgot to mention this. This d8 setting is on by default b.t.w.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: atpaula on December 15, 2018, 12:04:09
Blur circles are a function of the physical size of the aperture, its shape, *and* image magnification. Smooth blur circles that overlap make smooth out-of-focus rendition.

I have a pre-order of the 58/0.95 Noct via my personal Nikon contact at Nikon Nordic. The Nikon subsidiaries do not take normal pre-orders for this lens yet, as it still is on a prototype stage of development.

Did they give you an estimate of the cost of the lens?
I suspect I'll have to sell a kidney to get the funds for it.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 15, 2018, 12:28:40
Did they give you an estimate of the cost of the lens?
I suspect I'll have to sell a kidney to get the funds for it.

No idea of the future asking price for this lens apart from it being something very expensive. However, this lens interests me more than some of the long exotic super telephotos which I could afford today, if I had a perceived need for these. Thus I'm not too worried - and intend to keep my kidneys :D.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 15, 2018, 13:03:05
Additionally one needs to set Option d8 ('apply settings to live view') to ON to make the finder and monitor show the corrected view. Otherwise only jpgs are corrected. Photo Ninja politely ignores any such setting in the NEF.

Thank you, Birna, for the follow-up.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 15, 2018, 13:09:39
I have already the Markins L-bracket (LN-Z7)  in use for both Z cameras. This bracket is very well made, not intruding upon the handling of the camera at all, and enhances the versatility of the camera both hand-held and tripod-mounted.

Yesterday I finally got the extra bracket LN-FZ made specifically for the FTZ adapter, and must say I continue to be impressed. Markins have achieved the feat of making this accessory fully compatible with the Z system with or without the camera's L-bracket.

I have added the LN-FZ to one of the FTZ adapters and keep another FTZ without the bracket. The first setup takes care of medium length lenses,  up to about 200mm, plus my Voigtländer 125/2.5 APO lenses, whilst the latter mainly serves wide-angle or normal lenses.

Only drawback of these Markins products is the pretty steep asking price, however there are makers that ask for more (no name mentioned).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on December 15, 2018, 13:25:11
The LN-FZ is very well made indeed. With only one FTZ adapter around I have it permanently attached to it.  Only one issue, I find it impossible when clamped (in a normal position to the RRS clamp) to remove the body from the FTZ. Simply not enough turning space for that.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 15, 2018, 13:37:04
The LN-FZ is very well made indeed. With only one FTZ adapter around I have it permanently attached to it.  Only one issue, I find it impossible when clamped (in a normal position to the RRS clamp) to remove the body from the FTZ. Simply not enough turning space for that.

True enough with any Arca-type clamp I've tried. However, as one can just slide off the whole package from the clamp then remove the camera, it is a minor annoyance only.

I have several third-party mount adapters for the Z system, and they usually lack the tripod mount option thus cause no additional problems. At the same time, the lack of direct tripod support means these adapters are mainly useful with non-CPU shorter lenses, or with (non-CPU) long lenses having their own tripod collar.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on December 15, 2018, 13:46:47
True enough with any Arca-type clamp I've tried. However, as one can just slide off the whole package from the clamp then remove the camera, it is a minor annoyance only.

I have several third-party mount adapters for the Z system, and they usually lack the tripod mount option thus cause no additional problems. At the same time, the lack of direct tripod support means these adapters are mainly useful with non-CPU shorter lenses, or with (non-CPU) long lenses having their own tripod collar.

Yes the issue is non-existent when exercising a little patience. For attaching the camera clamped on a the tripod with lenses like the 105/1.4E mounted  this adapter was mandatory to me.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on December 15, 2018, 22:37:10
ot really done any in-depth testing for the high ISO speeds yet, plus Photo Ninja hasn't been updated to process Z6 NEFs (only does Z7 files). Thus I have to fall back on the jpgs and who knows how these have been doctored by the EXPEED 6 machinery inside the z6.

50K (51200) ISO is a calibrated setting and works pretty well as assessed from the jpgs.  Same can be said for the Hi ISO's, however colour saturation starts to decline and image noise is more visible. Still, the 100K(102400) ISO would be useful for the odd shot if required.

Forgive me for asking the obvious question, but how do you access the settings above 51,200? They don’t show as available from ISO button+rear dial. I can’t find any place where they are limited. I did find limits which apply to autoISO, but that doesn’t seem to work either.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 15, 2018, 23:05:48
Forgive me for asking the obvious question, but how do you access the settings above 51,200? They don’t show as available from ISO button+rear dial. I can’t find any place where they are limited. I did find limits which apply to autoISO, but that doesn’t seem to work either.

I guess the ISO higher than 51200 (extended range) is displayed as something like H 0.5, H 1.0, Hi 2.0, instead of the actual ISO value.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 15, 2018, 23:29:36
The question was how to get these values ... go to Photo Shooting Menu, select ISO settings. Turn auto ISO off and you are free to dial in any setting wanted.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 15, 2018, 23:34:58
The question was how to get these values ... go to Photo Shooting Menu, select ISO settings. Turn auto ISO off and you are free to dial in any setting wanted.

I thought that Jack already tried with the Auto ISO off as well and just doesn't see the actual ISO value.   :o :o :o
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 15, 2018, 23:58:03
The Hi (and Low) settings are "ISO equivalents", as they are not calibrated. The camera report them as Hi 0.3,Hi 0.7,Hi 1,Hi 2, and Lo 0.7,Lo 0.3,Low 1, respectively.

Raw converters and EXIF readers typically cast these value into ISO numbers for convenience, but this is an approximation only.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 16, 2018, 00:04:41
I finally finished my initialed use of the Z6 and 24-70/4S lens.  I hope it is ok, that I post the link to it here.  If not, let me know and I will delete it or the mods can remove the post.

https://bestlightphoto.blogspot.com/2018/12/nikon-z6-and-24-704s-z-mount-lens.html (https://bestlightphoto.blogspot.com/2018/12/nikon-z6-and-24-704s-z-mount-lens.html)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Wally on December 16, 2018, 00:48:35
The question was how to get these values ... go to Photo Shooting Menu, select ISO settings. Turn auto ISO off and you are free to dial in any setting wanted.
EFCS needs to set to OFF though otherwise your upper ISO limit is 51k
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 16, 2018, 00:52:35
That's true. Not easy to keep memorising all the caveats and conditions associated with the rich feature set of the Z models.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on December 16, 2018, 01:18:27
I thought that Jack already tried with the Auto ISO off as well and just doesn't see the actual ISO value.   :o :o :o

Ah, silent shutter was set to on. Did not realize that was related to high ISO.
H 2 is pretty grainy with High ISO noise reduction off. With NR on it becomes a little  smeary, but potentially useful in a pinch. Not a huge amount worse than 51k.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on December 16, 2018, 05:41:36
Good work Andrew - thank you for this.  Thanks also for your Z6 & OMD observations in your review.

(And thank you to Birna and everyone else that have shared their Z6 / Z7 experiences with us thus far.)

I finally finished my initialed use of the Z6 and 24-70/4S lens.  I hope it is ok, that I post the link to it here.  If not, let me know and I will delete it or the mods can remove the post.

https://bestlightphoto.blogspot.com/2018/12/nikon-z6-and-24-704s-z-mount-lens.html (https://bestlightphoto.blogspot.com/2018/12/nikon-z6-and-24-704s-z-mount-lens.html)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on December 16, 2018, 11:03:39
Good work Andrew - thank you for this.  Thanks also for your Z6 & OMD observations in your review.

(And thank you to Birna and everyone else that have shared their Z6 / Z7 experiences with us thus far.)
+1
Interesting to see that Nikon is not going for a big space saving, actually the optics has grown in size.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on December 16, 2018, 11:52:41
+1
Interesting to see that Nikon is not going for a big space saving, actually the optics has grown in size.

IMHO size comparisons make the most sense if referenced from the sensor plane. Measured in this way,  the new 50/1.8S is only a tad longer than the 50/1.8AFS including the FTZ adapter.
With the sensor plane markers aligned, it becomes obvious how much the mirrorless Z cameras have grown behind the sensor. 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 16, 2018, 12:02:43
IMHO size comparisons make the most sense if referenced from the sensor plane. Measured in this way,  the new 50/1.8S is only a tad longer than the 50/1.8AFS including the FTZ adapter.
With the sensor plane markers aligned, it becomes obvious how much the mirrorless Z cameras have grown behind the sensor.

The total length of Z body with Z 50/1.8 attached (from the viewfinder eyepiece to the front edge of the lens) is much greater than D750 body with AF-s 50/1.8.  This Z combo is also 65g heavier than the F combo.

Who said mirrorless is smaller and lighter?   :o :o :o
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 16, 2018, 12:04:22
As I stated earlier, that is the price to pay if the optical path cannot be folded up (via a mirror) and one demands superior quality of the finder.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 16, 2018, 12:18:11
As I stated earlier, that is the price to pay if the optical path cannot be folded up (via a mirror) and one demands superior quality of the finder.

That makes sense, but the body itself is lighter and smaller.  I wonder why the latest technology is not incorporated to make the lenses any smaller...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 16, 2018, 12:47:29
Nikon wanted to make these lenses *better*, not necessarily smaller. Longer optical designs are a known approach to this end.

A wise move in my opinion.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 16, 2018, 13:33:54
A few more samples with the Z6.

Firstly, windows in an office building 35/1.8S at f/11, ISO 2500

Secondly, something strange remotely related to the current season, AIS 200-400mm f/4 Zoom-Nikkor ED, 400 ISO (shot during snowfall)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on December 16, 2018, 14:12:09
The total length of Z body with Z 50/1.8 attached (from the viewfinder eyepiece to the front edge of the lens) is much greater than D750 body with AF-s 50/1.8.  This Z combo is also 65g heavier than the F combo.

Who said mirrorless is smaller and lighter?   :o :o :o
Akira, when I bought the EM-5 it was all about size  ;) .    At the time I was shooting D3s, D700, D300s and D300 with 2 MB-10's in the mix.  Not fun to travel with and as airline restrictions became tighter it meant changing.   Now most FX mirrorless are more or less the same size and weight and lenses are getting bigger.   Due to advancing age I have started using adapted lenses for travel and most walkabout.  The Df/58 f1.4 are still a favourite, even for travel.  I will take a7iii, Df and Pen F on my next trip.  Huge difference from D700,24-70 2.8G, 70-200 2.8G (ii), 85 1.4D, and 35 f1.4 .  I may have the Z6 before my next trip so I shall see what goes and what stays for the trip.
The smaller and lighter has pretty much disappeared from Sony full frame forums   ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 16, 2018, 15:44:23
Nikon wanted to make these lenses *better*, not necessarily smaller.

Yeah, they appear to offer a lot of calorie...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 16, 2018, 15:48:17
The smaller and lighter has pretty much disappeared from Sony full frame forums   ;D

Tom, that's true for all the manufactures now.  As you say, even the newer m4/3 lenses are all huge!

That said, the latest Z 50/1.8 made me forget about AF-S 58/1.4 and prompt me to switch to Z... ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 16, 2018, 15:49:42
A few more samples with the Z6.

Firstly, windows in an office building 35/1.8S at f/11, ISO 2500

Beautiful color!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Wally on December 17, 2018, 00:58:58
Here's a comparison of OOC 100% crops at high ISO @ 102k with different NR settings. The manual focus is on the lamp stand.
I think Frank was looking for this.

001: low NR, converted in NX-D, no post
002: no NR, converted in NX-D, no post
003: low NR, jpeg straight OOC

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nasos Kosmas on December 17, 2018, 05:35:50
You may find comparisons here
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z6-first-impressions-review/5 (https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z6-first-impressions-review/5)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on December 17, 2018, 06:29:18
Tonight I finally took off the 24-70 and put on 55 f/1.2. That lens has not always been easy to focus wide open, but it is so simple on Z6. Super bright! Focus peaking is great for general focus and zoom if needed for precise focus. And with stabilization easy to shoot at 1/30th or lower if needed. The more I use this camera, the more I like it.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 17, 2018, 09:28:42
Here's a comparison of OOC 100% crops at high ISO @ 102k with different NR settings. The manual focus is on the lamp stand.
I think Frank was looking for this.

001: low NR, converted in NX-D, no post
002: no NR, converted in NX-D, no post
003: low NR, jpeg straight OOC



thank you, Wally. No NR looks great as input for any Postproduction, but even resize only would make it look smother. Also the ooc JPEG looks phantastic. Remember: this is ISO 100.000 at 100% crop. Thank you. Phantastic!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 17, 2018, 10:11:50
Actually, "ISO" 102400 = 100K

Same confusion as in sizes of computer hard drives.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 17, 2018, 13:52:27
I used the z6 this saturday to shoot a dance show.

   ISO: 3200 works very good, 1600 much better. I´ll be happy with any but I need room for pp. I have shot in both settings and I´m happy with it. Take into consideration that I may print any of the images big, either for expo or for posters for the show so my tolerance may be lower than most.
   AF: I have settle for now with AF-C Dynamic area and 1/2"every other point" active (menu item A5). That gives me a very precise focus that I can move around fast. Note, if you get to the far end to any direction and push the joystick again, the point will go around and appear on the other side of the screen, like pacman. I didn´t know that but I used it a few occasions. Full area with face recognition may work sometimes but It can focus on random places if no obvious face is on the frame.
    RAW: lossless compressed 12 bit. Gives maximum speed and buffer. I have not encounter any limitations. Rather, I came home with waaay too many images. 12 fps even in silent mode
    WB: as usual for me I set it to K3500. AWB can be all over the place and this way I have a good starting point to set as needed.
     Finder: menu d8 "apply settings to live view" on and neutral picture control makes for a reliable preview. Still, images can be darker than the evf suggest so I have to compensate, a bit, accordingly. D11 "view all in continuous mode" also ON. Other, viewfinder brightness is set to "auto" and is working well. I may try the manual compensation to better match what is going on on stage...will see.
     Stealth: in the set up menu, control panel brightness was set to 1 and later to completely off. I became noiseless and invisible  8) that bring me to silent shutter. The most appealing feature of the camera for my needs. Luck will have it, this particular show had a lot of intimate silent scenes. I had a blast shooting away worry free. At some point and just for fun, I moved at less than 3 feet from one of the people in the audience. He didn´t even notice and I was doing 12 fps  8)

    I have save all this to U3. Is the closest to M. Only drive mode can not be saved.

    I had the d500 with me. I didn´t use it other than to compare at the beginning. Still a brilliant camera for shows. Sound made the cut.

   

   
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jakov Minić on December 17, 2018, 14:13:07
Paco, Paco, Paco!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on December 17, 2018, 14:23:01
Beautiful capture and rendition, Paco!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 17, 2018, 14:39:43
Actually, "ISO" 102400 = 100K

Same confusion as in sizes of computer hard drives.

a wise woman once said that these settings are not calibrated anyway so 100k is roughly 100k
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 17, 2018, 14:41:16
Shot some senior pics last night. Overcast skies, then into the night. Decided to give the face tracking a try. Shot over 250 images, out of all those images, who wants to guess how many were out of focus?

Answer: 2

I'm a bit in shock that it was that few. I'll post up samples once I get the images processed and to the client.  I will admit that I never trusted the face detect on other systems so never used them.   I might not be as surprised if I had.

The other thing that I tried was the Auto tracking. From all the reviews it stated that to get this feature to work you have to be in Auto focus point mode, then press the ok button, use the thumb stick or rear screen to select the target to track, then press ok again.

What I found to work was to be in Auto point mode, press ok, place the box over the target then by pressing the shutter half way to focus, tracking activated as well. Didn't try this with back button focus, but guessing it should activate it as well.

While it is a pain to have to press the ok button first, it is not as bad to use as some of the vloggers made it out to be. As with the face tracking, I was very surprised how well this worked and out of all the images I took with this method, all were in focus.

Now I've got to find some more moving targets to keep experimenting with the AF-C and find that optional mode. Still need to work with the wide-s and wide-l and see how they do. Might head back down to the dog park and chase the mutts running about.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 17, 2018, 14:45:21
the Z6 seems to be a winner.
I will ask NPS for a test package...
though I still did not like the ergonomics ...

I did shot again with the D850+grip+105E ... a pleasure, a real thing, a hand warmer, lovely.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on December 17, 2018, 14:49:29
I used the z6 this saturday to shoot a dance show.

   ISO: 3200 works very good, 1600 much better. I´ll be happy with any but I need room for pp. I have shot in both settings and I´m happy with it. Take into consideration that I may print any of the images big, either for expo or for posters for the show so my tolerance may be lower than most.
   AF: I have settle for now with AF-C Dynamic area and 1/2"every other point" active (menu item A5). That gives me a very precise focus that I can move around fast. Note, if you get to the far end to any direction and push the joystick again, the point will go around and appear on the other side of the screen, like pacman. I didn´t know that but I used it a few occasions. Full area with face recognition may work sometimes but It can focus on random places if no obvious face is on the frame.
    RAW: lossless compressed 12 bit. Gives maximum speed and buffer. I have not encounter any limitations. Rather, I came home with waaay too many images. 12 fps even in silent mode
    WB: as usual for me I set it to K3500. AWB can be all over the place and this way I have a good starting point to set as needed.
     Finder: menu d8 "apply settings to live view" on and neutral picture control makes for a reliable preview. Still, images can be darker than the evf suggest so I have to compensate, a bit, accordingly. D11 "view all in continuous mode" also ON. Other, viewfinder brightness is set to "auto" and is working well. I may try the manual compensation to better match what is going on on stage...will see.
     Stealth: in the set up menu, control panel brightness was set to 1 and later to completely off. I became noiseless and invisible  8) that bring me to silent shutter. The most appealing feature of the camera for my needs. Luck will have it, this particular show had a lot of intimate silent scenes. I had a blast shooting away worry free. At some point and just for fun, I moved at less than 3 feet from one of the people in the audience. He didn´t even notice and I was doing 12 fps  8)

    I have save all this to U3. Is the closest to M. Only drive mode can not be saved.

    I had the d500 with me. I didn´t use it other than to compare at the beginning. Still a brilliant camera for shows. Sound made the cut.

   

 
Paco, cool image :)
Many thanks for the explanation .   I shoot 2nd camera for my wife at string and vocal concerts 2 to 3 times a year.   Last time I was using a7rii and Pen F while she was shooting the new a7iii.  Fortunately the small concert hall is a couple of hundred years old and the lighting was updated probably 30 years ago so none of the new types of lighting.  Silent shooting is required by the organizers .   Except for a  few fixed spots controlled backstage it is pretty easy.  Unfortunately some of the Venues keep updating the lighting so I need to go and do some tests.  Good thing they do not require Silent  :) .  Mostly EDM and loud, live bands  :)
Cheers,
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on December 17, 2018, 14:58:07
the Z6 seems to be a winner.
I will ask NPS for a test package...
though I still did not like the ergonomics ...

I did shot again with the D850+grip+105E ... a pleasure, a real thing, a hand warmer, lovely.

Looking at the contacts inside the battery compartment, they look to be for battery purposes only, there will never be an Z6/Z7 grip with release button, joystick, AF-ON button etc. Only a simple battery-pack without controls seems possible...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: armando_m on December 17, 2018, 15:12:13
I used the z6 this saturday to shoot a dance show.

   ISO: 3200 works very good, 1600 much better. I´ll be happy with any but I need room for pp. I have shot in both settings and I´m happy with it. Take into consideration that I may print any of the images big, either for expo or for posters for the show so my tolerance may be lower than most.
   AF: I have settle for now with AF-C Dynamic area and 1/2"every other point" active (menu item A5). That gives me a very precise focus that I can move around fast. Note, if you get to the far end to any direction and push the joystick again, the point will go around and appear on the other side of the screen, like pacman. I didn´t know that but I used it a few occasions. Full area with face recognition may work sometimes but It can focus on random places if no obvious face is on the frame.
    RAW: lossless compressed 12 bit. Gives maximum speed and buffer. I have not encounter any limitations. Rather, I came home with waaay too many images. 12 fps even in silent mode
    WB: as usual for me I set it to K3500. AWB can be all over the place and this way I have a good starting point to set as needed.
     Finder: menu d8 "apply settings to live view" on and neutral picture control makes for a reliable preview. Still, images can be darker than the evf suggest so I have to compensate, a bit, accordingly. D11 "view all in continuous mode" also ON. Other, viewfinder brightness is set to "auto" and is working well. I may try the manual compensation to better match what is going on on stage...will see.
     Stealth: in the set up menu, control panel brightness was set to 1 and later to completely off. I became noiseless and invisible  8) that bring me to silent shutter. The most appealing feature of the camera for my needs. Luck will have it, this particular show had a lot of intimate silent scenes. I had a blast shooting away worry free. At some point and just for fun, I moved at less than 3 feet from one of the people in the audience. He didn´t even notice and I was doing 12 fps  8)

    I have save all this to U3. Is the closest to M. Only drive mode can not be saved.

    I had the d500 with me. I didn´t use it other than to compare at the beginning. Still a brilliant camera for shows. Sound made the cut.

   

 
Paco, great practical advice about how to use the camera! Seems that you are truly enjoying it
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 17, 2018, 18:58:52
I simply *had* to modify the FTZ adapter. By judiciously inserting a tiny piece of plastic, the minimum-aperture sensor is (semi-)permanently disabled. An easy DIY-fix taking 15 seconds at most to implement.

No more the dreaded "F--" error that prevents a shot when one changes lenses in a hurry and forgets to lock the aperture ring. Plus many lenses, in particular third-party ones, lack a proper aperture lock anyway so the lens can easily become unlocked -- very frustrating when you try to get the shot and the error message flashes and the release is jammed.

Even greater advantage (to me) is that I now can study details in the image rendition accurately when the lens aperture is set anywhere in the range from its maximum value to f/5.6, simply by rotating the aperture ring. Most useful for close-up work.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 17, 2018, 21:47:55
I simply *had* to modify the FTZ adapter. By judiciously inserting a tiny piece of plastic, the minimum-aperture sensor is (semi-)permanently disabled. An easy DIY-fix taking 15 seconds at most to implement.

No more the dreaded "F--" error that prevents a shot when one changes lenses in a hurry and forgets to lock the aperture ring. Plus many lenses, in particular third-party ones, lack a proper aperture lock anyway so the lens can easily become unlocked -- very frustrating when you try to get the shot and the error message flashes and the release is jammed.

Even greater advantage (to me) is that I now can study details in the image rendition accurately when the lens aperture is set anywhere in the range from its maximum value to f/5.6, simply by rotating the aperture ring. Most useful for close-up work.

Since I am not very adventurous when it comes to operating on gear, let me be clear. You are talking about that little protruding pop-up on the lens side of the FTZ, correct? What you did was to jam something into that hole that keeps the pop-up piece depressed, correct? Any particular kind of plastic used. Just jam it in gently?

Once we do this, what does the adapter no longer do, please? I do a lot of close-up works, so I was intrigued by your mentioning that. 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 17, 2018, 21:51:18
The FTZ continues to operate exactly as before. The modification only concerns the previewing part of its function.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 17, 2018, 21:53:27
I am getting increasingly interested in using the Z7, more than I imagined. I thought I would be using only with adaptive lenses and ignore the three native lenses, but I seem to be changing my mind. I find myself assembling a small kit to go on the road with, which will be something like:

Nikon 7
Nikon Z 24-70mm S
Nikon 50mm S
FTZ
CV-125 mm

What other non-native lenses are folks finding that they want to carry with them. I would like to hear some of your favorites.

For me, perhaps the Voigtlander 180mm, the voigtlander 90mm macro.

Of course I could lug some big lenses, but may not.

If the native lenses continue being this good (correction-wise), this could change my whole lens approach.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 17, 2018, 21:55:47
The FTZ continues to operate exactly as before. The modification only concerns the previewing part of its function.

So, the idea is to just jam that little pin down, correct? And by doing that in wider apertures <= f/5.6 I see the actual aperture setting and not the wide-open one?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 17, 2018, 22:32:21
So, the idea is to just jam that little pin down, correct? And by doing that in wider apertures <= f/5.6 I see the actual aperture setting and not the wide-open one?

You observe the actual set aperture, yes.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 17, 2018, 22:37:05
I could not use the 80-200ed because of FF--error but this trick fixes it. I can dial the aperture from the camera even. Thanks Birna
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 17, 2018, 22:37:38
I´m truly enjoying the Z6  ;)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 17, 2018, 23:20:58
I could not use the 80-200ed because of FF--error but this trick fixes it. I can dial the aperture from the camera even. Thanks Birna

You are most welcome, Paco. The small details are important :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 18, 2018, 00:04:47
I am getting increasingly interested in using the Z7, more than I imagined. I thought I would be using only with adaptive lenses and ignore the three native lenses, but I seem to be changing my mind. I find myself assembling a small kit to go on the road with, which will be something like:

Nikon 7
Nikon Z 24-70mm S
Nikon 50mm S
FTZ
CV-125 mm

What other non-native lenses are folks finding that they want to carry with them. I would like to hear some of your favorites.

For me, perhaps the Voigtlander 180mm, the voigtlander 90mm macro.

Of course I could lug some big lenses, but may not.

If the native lenses continue being this good (correction-wise), this could change my whole lens approach.

Natively, I'm using the 24-70 and I just got the 35/1.8.  f mount in using the 50/1.8 G and the FX 70-300/4.5-5.6 AF-P VR.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on December 18, 2018, 00:21:31
I am getting increasingly interested in using the Z7, more than I imagined. I thought I would be using only with adaptive lenses and ignore the three native lenses, but I seem to be changing my mind. I find myself assembling a small kit to go on the road with, which will be something like:

Nikon 7
Nikon Z 24-70mm S
Nikon 50mm S
FTZ
CV-125 mm

What other non-native lenses are folks finding that they want to carry with them. I would like to hear some of your favorites.

For me, perhaps the Voigtlander 180mm, the voigtlander 90mm macro.

Of course I could lug some big lenses, but may not.

If the native lenses continue being this good (correction-wise), this could change my whole lens approach.

I find the 24-70 to be quite good, so have not checked much in the way of lenses between 24-70, but 180ED AI is pretty nice. 55mm f/1.2 is super bright (but still blooms wide open), O Nikkor is easier than ever to focus (by moving back and forth). I will try wide primes sometime soon. Also used 300mm f/2.8 AI but way too heavy to travel with.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 18, 2018, 06:44:54
You are most welcome, Paco. The small details are important :D

As I understand the trick is reversible?
It is just insulation of a contact?
"Jam down" sounds irreversible?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 18, 2018, 06:59:03
The modification is entirely reversible. No epoxy glue has been applied (for once) :D

The contact sensor is not "insulated", but jammed in the 'down' position so as to inform the camera the lens is set to its minimum aperture, whether this is true or false.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 18, 2018, 08:41:54
The modification is entirely reversible. No epoxy glue has been applied (for once) :D
The contact sensor is not "insulated", but jammed in the 'down' position so as to inform the camera the lens is set to its minimum aperture, whether this is true or false.

Now I understand. It is a mechanical lever held into the position of your liking!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 18, 2018, 12:57:09
A few from this weekend.  24-70/4S used in these shots.  I have a few more low light shots with the 35/1.8S in still processing.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 18, 2018, 13:24:11
Today's test shooting was with the new fisheye zoom AFS 8-15mm f/3.5-4.5 Nikkor ED-IF on the Z6.

The lens does pretty well. AF is not speedy, but hits the mark every time. These examples were at f/9 800-1600 ISO.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 18, 2018, 14:09:27
I went into a deep dive into the portraits I took this weekend.   In some of them, I did notice evidence of shutter shock in the images taken around 1/60 to 1/80 shutter speed range.   Nothing that ruined any shots, but it is there.  Seems to have gone away once I hit 1/100.

I think that I will investigate using EFCS in those situations where I know I will be shooting with that shutter speed for any length of time.  Although, since ISO is not really a concern with me on this camera, I might just shoot manual with auto ISO and force the shutter speed to stay above 1/100.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 18, 2018, 14:14:27
I don't doubt shutter vibrations might occur, but so far I haven't encountered any issue in this regard. My shake-prone hands apparently are the minimum factor to determine image technical quality.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on December 18, 2018, 14:30:04
Nice work, Andrew!  :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on December 18, 2018, 14:33:48
So far I keep EFC on at all times. I´ll turn it off if in need of faster than 1/2000th shutter. There is no benefit to turn it off that I can think of. It uses half of the shutter movement -and so cuts wear in half as well?- and more importantly is faster, quieter and no vibration until the end of the exposure.

    Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on December 18, 2018, 15:06:21
After seeing the fantastic night shots with the Z 50mm I wonder if the Z 35mm is equally good at f1.8?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 18, 2018, 15:06:36
Nice work, Andrew!  :)

Thanks, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 18, 2018, 15:20:38
After seeing the fantastic night shots with the Z 50mm I wonder if the Z 35mm is equally good at f1.8?

Yes, it is.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on December 18, 2018, 15:42:46
So far I keep EFC on at all times. I´ll turn it off if in need of faster than 1/2000th shutter. There is no benefit to turn it off that I can think of. It uses half of the shutter movement -and so cuts wear in half as well?- and more importantly is faster, quieter and no vibration until the end of the exposure.

    Am I missing something?

I don't think so; the 1/2000s EFCS limit protects against the very short shutter speeds where EFCS has a bad influence on background blur. Reason is that in EFCS mode the second mechanical shutter blade moves in a plane in front of the sensor, and the first electronic blade moves in the plane of the sensor. At a very short shutter speed with a small slit this leads to asymmetry issues.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 18, 2018, 16:45:38
Yes, it is.

I am wondering if you would comment on this thought:

With the Z7, I have the 24-70 S and am getting the 50mm S today... and am considering the 35mm S lens as well.

No, these lenses don’t seem to measure up to the best lenses I have. Like you, I have a lot of great lenses, especially “APO” lenses, whatever we can agree they are. I go by what I see, etc.

Yet, this new generation of Z7 native lenses, while not at the level of the best lenses in my collection, are pretty darned good and they are native and not so big or heavy. And they seem well corrected and sharp.

It occurs to me that I might end up using them because they are convenient and don’t seem to constantly irritate me (CA, etc.) like so many lenses do.

I could see myself actually using these lenses quite a bit or even a lot. And this is just the opening salvo. What’s to stop other companies (like Zeiss, etc.) from making lenses that fit the Z7 and take advantage of this new mount?

I never thought (up to now) that any of this mirrorless stuff (of which I have tried most of them) would budge me from where I stand, but, you know, it just might do that.

I am especially interested in the forthcoming NOCT S lens, which as a manual lens which is very fast and (hopefully) very, very well corrected. That is a lens I could use everyday and it is native to the Z7. Your thoughts, if you have time.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 18, 2018, 20:04:34
I fear using the native Z-lenses in your case will be limited by the lack of suitable extension.

However, seeing that an extension ring only needs pass-through contacts, I am now looking into the opportunity to build one or two myself. I only need a few additional spare parts (camera mount, baffle and contact pins) that my helpful Nikon contact might assist me with.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 18, 2018, 21:06:21
I fear using the native Z-lenses in your case will be limited by the lack of suitable extension.

However, seeing that an extension ring only needs pass-through contacts, I am now looking into the opportunity to build one or two myself. I only need a few additional spare parts (camera mount, baffle and contact pins) that my helpful Nikon contact might assist me with.

I agree with you and am looking for the same thing. I received my 50mm S lens today and It is very nice. I have to get used to the fly-by-wire. Other than that, it looks great, especially for travelling which I believe I will start to do more of.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on December 19, 2018, 02:13:43
Perhaps a business opportunity to make and sell stongly made Z extension tubes with contacts?

(And if you do, for goodness sake, make the tube portion of metal!  ;D )

 Rather sadly Nikon have for quite some time now neglected the updating of the accessories side of their product line up - I am thinking of bellows, extension tubes, high quality diopter lenses etc

In the meantime my PB4 soldiers on and I still occassionally buy K-Ring and PK and PN-11 tubes when they sometimes come on Ebay at affordable prices.



I fear using the native Z-lenses in your case will be limited by the lack of suitable extension.

However, seeing that an extension ring only needs pass-through contacts, I am now looking into the opportunity to build one or two myself. I only need a few additional spare parts (camera mount, baffle and contact pins) that my helpful Nikon contact might assist me with.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on December 19, 2018, 14:03:53
Just wanted to add this little tidbit.  I'm over 1000 shots on the Z 6 current battery.  Went through a portrait shot, a 30 minute show and walking around taking pictures at a lantern festival.  All outside and in average temps of about 30F.

Honestly, I think CIPA needs to re-evaluate their battery testing procedures for mirrorless cameras.  Even years ago with my Fuji and Olympus cameras, I got way more shots than per charge than the CIPA numbers showed. 

I know they do a worst case scenario kind of thing, but I was sitting in the cold, and for 30 minutes I was using full C-AF and continuous high drive mode along with everything else, plus a ton of image review.

It's not new news, but thought others would be interested in the information.

I have some third party batteries, and they do not fair as well as the en-el15a or b Nikon batteries, but even those are not even close to the low standard number published.

I've said for years that I think mirrorless cameras should be measured against a powered on time.

I find with the Olympus em1 Mark 2, that just being on drained the battery, so if I shut down completely between lulls in shooting that the battery life was much improved and this is similar to what I find with the Z 6.

Just some of my non scientific observations.  Hope you find them useful.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 19, 2018, 14:34:14
These battery numbers mean little as photographers develop their own individual patterns of usage, ambient temperatures vary,  and hence  arrive at vastly different figures. For example, so far I have attained around 180-220 exposures per charge (lowest on the older EL-15a). Compared to my Df, it's about 40% less. The conclusion is I need to carry more spares for the Z cameras. I got 2 extra batteries for each camera and that should suffice for my own work.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 22, 2018, 15:20:45
Work pace slows down towards the end of the year. All required botany articles are submitted to the Ministry of the Environmental and I even got the final payment as well. Thus, time to enjoy music,reading, friendship, and some camera experimenting :D

Here is the final version of the M42 adapter for the Z cameras. Many solutions are feasible and I have tried several of them, before eventually making the adapter as thin and as simple as possible.

The required parts of the adapter (plus the M42>39 step ring and the 55/1.2 Nikkor-O) are shown below. The making of the adapter is the simple matter of trimming the M42 mounting bracket (from an old Petri M42 kit) so it fits inside the Z lens mount, adding epoxy glue, and cure for 40 minutes at 100C in the oven to ensure maximum binding strength. Then, add any suitable M42 helicoid and one is ready to explore any M42 (or m39) lens on the Z camera.

I had the famous Nikkor-O 55mm f/1.2 in mind so this is the lens I experimented with. It will focus to infinity with ease provided the helicoid is short enough (approx. 17mm will do with the helicoid fully closed), and only length of the expanded helicoid plus any extension tubes defines the near limit.

The examples below, taken with the Z6 and the lens set to f/1.2, illustrate the huge focusing range available for the 55/1.2 Nikkor-O. Towards infinity the image is sharp only on-axis, as expected, and there is visible vignetting in the corners. Up close the sharpness extends across the frame and corner vignetting is minimised.

Happy shooting :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on December 22, 2018, 15:49:53
Work pace slows down towards the end of the year. All required botany articles are submitted to the Ministry of the Environmental and I even got the final payment as well. Thus, time to enjoy music,reading, friendship, and some camera experimenting :D

Here is the final version of the M42 adapter for the Z cameras. Many solutions are feasible and I have tried several of them, before eventually making the adapter as thin and as simple as possible.

The required parts of the adapter (plus the M42>39 step ring and the 55/1.2 Nikkor-O) are shown below. The making of the adapter is the simple matter of trimming the M42 mounting bracket (from an old Petri M42 kit) so it fits inside the Z lens mount, adding epoxy glue, and cure for 40 minutes at 100C in the oven to ensure maximum binding strength. Then, add any suitable M42 helicoid and one is ready to explore any M42 (or m39) lens on the Z camera.

I had the famous Nikkor-O 55mm f/1.2 in mind so this is the lens I experimented with. It will focus to infinity with ease provided the helicoid is short enough (approx. 17mm will do with the helicoid fully closed), and only length of the expanded helicoid plus any extension tubes defines the near limit.

The examples below, taken with the Z6 and the lens set to f/1.2, illustrate the huge focusing range available for the 55/1.2 Nikkor-O. Towards infinity the image is sharp only on-axis, as expected, and there is visible vignetting in the corners. Up close the sharpness extends across the frame and corner vignetting is minimised.

Happy shooting :D

That's nice, of course. I don't have any very small helicoids, but I will look. Here is a question for you:

I believe the ideal magnification ratio is !:5 for the CRT lens. It seems this wonderful lens is not-so-sharp outside of that range, almost disappointing to see this lens turn ordinary. I also have a Z7 M42 adapter, which I have not played with. What lenses would you suggest for that?

P.S. I finally picked up a used Burzynski Ball head. It is in slightly rough shape, but can be cleaned up. I am tiring of my Arca C1 Cube heads, mainly because of the knob to tilt the whole head , which has never been solid (it's springy), this geared head's worst feature, IMO. I am hoping the Burzynski will be lower down and more stable. I may put it on one of my Sachtlers or RSS tripods. For the kind of stuff I do, I need solid, stable, and more solid.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 22, 2018, 16:05:11
The 55/1.2 CRT will do pretty well outside the optimal range 1:4 ~1:5 so consider 1:2 to to 1:20 as the likely workable magnification for close-up purposes. Some cropping might be required in particular for the smallest magnifications, as vignetting etc. will creep in.

It is true the lens shows bad performance towards infinity, which is of course not to be held against it as the optics never were computed for such distant range. Only on-axis we observe vestiges of the familiar high-quality rendition. However, I think it can be used well outside the close-up range for portraits etc. if  the inevitable off-axis decline in image performance can be made part of the composition. Its use for landscapes will be an acquired taste to put it mildly :D

For the M42-Z adapter, any M42 screw mount lens by definition can be attached, but unless it has its own focusing arrangement, some kind of helicoid or bellows device must be included.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 23, 2018, 21:51:34
The Z6 handles high contrasts very well. This was taken earlier today when I visited my parents' grave with my children. Straight into the light and the shaded headstone on the left hand side still has a lot of detail despite being so dark.

Z6, 35/1.8s at f/4.5, 1/60 sec, 1600 ISO
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 28, 2018, 13:12:58
One of the underlying reasons for my piqued interest in the Z range was the potential of using my old Nikkor RF (S-mount) from the '50s on these cameras. A true revival of the rangefinder items in the digital era. I tried first with the RF Nikkors on a Sony A7-series and disliked the camera intensively thus sold it off after merely 3 months. Hiatus then until the Z range was launched.

I now have a nicely finished Nikon S(RF) to Nikon Z adapter with external bayonet for most of my ancient Nikkors. Nearly all of the 50mm lenses of that era relied on using the built-in internal helicoid of the S cameras. I do have an adapter to allow focusing such lenses on the Z bodies, however I have not completed the adapter yet as there still remains some focus fine-tuning before I'm satisfied.

Below is a comparison side-by-side view of two 35 mm lenses for Nikons. One is the W-Nikkor 35/1.8 from the late '50s, the other of course the newest design 35/1.8 S-Line Nikkor from 2018. They are 60 years apart along the optical development scale -- a massive change in design and appearance.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 28, 2018, 13:24:41
Let me be crystal clear: the newer optics are superior to the old. Period. That, however, shall not entail the older lenses are useless. Far from it. They are surprisingly good in many cases and have a character of their own often lacking from today's super-corrected computerised designs.

Taking the 35 mm Nikkors of the previous post as an example, here are full frame images at f/1.8 (wide open) and f/5.6 (around the peak performance of each lens). Z6 on tripod, 1600 ISO. Camera is stationary between the test series.

First comparison, f/1.8 Old and New.

Second, f/5.6 Old and New.

I was positively surprised how good the vintage 35mm  really was, in particular closed down. The new lens excels in low vignetting and evenness of sharpnes across the frame even wide open, but the difference at f/5.6 is remarkably small.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: pluton on December 28, 2018, 20:52:19
Thank you Birna, for allowing us to follow along with your explorations.  It seems that, at least in this case, what was a good lens then is still a good lens now.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on December 29, 2018, 07:34:32
Thank you for sharing your findings on the Z-Cameras and the modern Z 35mm f/1.8 and its very old forebear, the rangefinder 35mm f/2.8.

In respect of the older rangefinder lens, its rearmost optical lements are never-the-less closer to the film/sensor plane than those of the F-Mount 35mm f/2.8 lenses which then leads me to firstly ask if you have had a chance to compare an F-mount 35mm f/2.8 lens to the new Z-mount 35mm lens? 

Or maybe the latest FX F-Mount lens, the 35mm f/1.8G which presumably has the latest design technologies, glasses, and coatings (which of course the Z-Mount 35mm lens has)?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 29, 2018, 13:09:05
Actually, it was the rangefinder lens W-Nikkor 35 mm f/1.8. That line-up did not have an f/2.8 model amongst the 35mm lenses. I have the f/2.5 and f/3.5 versions as well, but always had a soft spot for the f/1.8 version.

I don't own any modern 35/1.8 in F-mount, but there are f/1.4 (AIS and AFS) or f/2 models (AI, AIS) if I would feel the urge to do more testing. However, the main point with the reported comparison was to assess the very old rangefinder model against its  Z-mount incarnation. The handling of the F-mount 35mm lenses with the FTZ is not as nice and the appearance not as inconspicuous as the rangefinder 35/1.8 with its corresponding Z-mount adapter.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on December 29, 2018, 14:14:07
Thank you - it was the f/1.8 - my bad as they say.

The old 35mm f/1.8 on your Z7 does look nice - quite the part!  ;D

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 29, 2018, 14:48:17
With the external bayonet (RF Nikkor)-Z adapter, time has come to the corresponding adapter for RF Nikkors without their own focusing helicoid. These are the 5cm f/1.4, f/1.5, and f/2 rangefinder normal lenses. In addition, there are two versions of the even faster, and vastly more expensive, 5cm f/1.1 Nikkor, one with and the other without helicoid, however I never was able to convince myself of the necessity to purchase one of them. Same goes for the 5cm f/3.5 RF Micro-Nikkor, by the way.

In connection with my previous fling with Sony E-mount/A7 series and the old rangefinder lenses, I had tracked down and finally obtained the Amadeo adapter with focusing helicoid that allowed use of the normal lenses. After a period of intense tinkering, I decided to combine the Amadeo with a factory spare Z mount. Further testing indicated I could achieve infinity focus with this combination, provided the Amadeo was trimmed a wee bit to fit inside the Z bayonet.

Here are the parts, and several RF normal Nikkors to show the variation in size between them. The '50s 5cm f1.4 models were tiny, whilst the newly designed 50mm f/1.4 from the revived Nikon S3 jubilee camera is much bigger albeit still small compare to DSLR items.

Just been taking some test pictures to verify the new adapter is operating properly. Now it is left to cure in the oven over night. Steam punk is serious fun....
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on December 29, 2018, 16:38:05
Birna is having a lot of fun in the adapter business
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on December 29, 2018, 16:52:54
Birna is having a lot of fun in the adapter business

Yes ! I guess that the path between a biologist and an engineer is a very fine one, specially when threading with photography  8)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: John Geerts on December 29, 2018, 17:53:16
Thank you Birna, for allowing us to follow along with your explorations.
Yes, indeed, thanks !!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Erik Lund on December 30, 2018, 21:03:45
The old 35mm f/1.8 far surpass my expectations! Really impressed. Considering the vintage and the size looks like a really nice set!
I have been disappointed by many LEICA M lenses on the new digital LEICA cameras even more so on Sony etc
The tempered behavior on NIKON Z must be due to the very thin cover glass.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: fish_shooter on December 30, 2018, 23:04:59
The old 35mm f/1.8 far surpass my expectations! Really impressed. Considering the vintage and the size looks like a really nice set!
I have been disappointed by many LEICA M lenses on the new digital LEICA cameras even more so on Sony etc
The tempered behavior on NIKON Z must be due to the very thin cover glass.

Thus far I have noticed corner "issues" with the Leica M Summilux ASPH at f/1.4 that were reduced on stopping down to f/5.6. The WATE lens performed much better. I need to do more testing - need longer days and better weather. I brought just a 75mm Apo-Summicron with me on Xmas travel which performs quite well as you might expect. Not as convenient to use as the Z kit lens, brought it for the aperture.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on December 30, 2018, 23:39:11
I have no expectations of old optics being "better" than native lenses on the Z cameras. I do hope their characteristics otherwise transfer well to the new system, though. That suffices for me. The newest Nikkors in F mount should be equally well capable of making quality records with the Z as with their native F mount camera, however.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 02, 2019, 12:25:15
Spent the New Year's Eve in company of a lot of merry people. Amongst them a genuine Leather Man in full regalia, with a partner recently emerged as transgender to complicate matters further. We had a lot of thoughts to share and discuss adding to the event being even merrier.

He asked me to shoot a few  pictures and I obliged using the Z6 and the 50/1.8S. Light was lousy thus had to up ISO to 12800 or higher, which the Z6 easily took in its stride. Processing the NEFs later was less easy as Photo Ninja still lacks Z6 support (it handles Z7 files well, though).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 02, 2019, 16:21:19
the 1.8/50S seems to be a real winner. Wow.

the story is also a good one.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 03, 2019, 16:04:22
The next lenses to assess on the Z cameras are the following,
Both lenses are tiny compared to the native Z-mount optics and as they are quite recent designs, should provide decent performance as well. A native Z lens this wide will not appear for a while it seems (plans for a 14-30/4 do exist though).

The Heliar sits snugly inside a "dumb" F-Z adapter (Fotasy), whilst the 50 Nikkor rides atop the Birna-Amadeo Z-adapter I completed a day or two ago.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 03, 2019, 23:34:37
The next lenses to assess on the Z cameras are the following,
  • 15 mm f/4.5 Voigtländer Heliar (made by Cosina in native F Nikon mount, early '00s)
  • 50 mm f/1.4 Nikkor (2005 model for the Jubilee Nikon S3 camera)
Both lenses are tiny compared to the native Z-mount optics and as they are quite recent designs, should provide decent performance as well. A native Z lens this wide will not appear for a while it seems (plans for a 14-30/4 do exist though).

The Heliar sits snugly inside a "dumb" F-Z adapter (Fotasy), whilst the 50 Nikkor rides atop the Birna-Amadeo Z-adapter I completed a day or two ago.

Do you have any idea where I might get a short extension (like 8mm or so) for Z-mount to Z-mount?

Also, received the RRS L-Bracket for the Z cameras. It is nice and it extends to the left (facing forward) to allow the various HDMI connections, etc. to fit in without effecting the vertical mounting. I have other L-Brackers, but this is expensive but nice, IMO. It also has an Allen wrench inset into the L-Pracked held there by two magnets.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on January 03, 2019, 23:46:30


Also, received the RRS L-Bracket for the Z cameras. It is nice and it extends to the left (facing forward) to allow the various HDMI connections, etc. to fit in without effecting the vertical mounting. I have other L-Brackers, but this is expensive but nice, IMO. It also has an Allen wrench inset into the L-Pracked held there by two magnets.

So they copied what Kirk did with their monopod head and attached an Allen wrench to the device. Good idea! Another good idea, IMO, is this better wrench from Acratech.

https://www.acratech.net/accessories/stainless-steel-allen-wrench
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 04, 2019, 00:20:58
Do you have any idea where I might get a short extension (like 8mm or so) for Z-mount to Z-mount?
---

I repeat what is already stated: this is only trivial if the rear end is Z mount and the front is not. Native Z-Z extension will probably not surface in a while. The reasons are quite obvious as the native Z lenses require electronic communication with the camera thus one has to have a proper Z *camera* mount and pass-through contacts installed. Plus, the Nikon engineers will be horrified to learn that users wish to abuse their carefully optimised corner-corner sharpness lenses by adding extension to them :D :D Do not forget that added extension never can improve the quality of a lens, only reduce it.

However, as I already have an appointment with a rep of Nikon UK next week, I will relate to them a wish for a Z extension tube. I might even build one myself after talking to my insider Nikon repair tech who might provide me with [some of] the required parts.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on January 04, 2019, 01:04:58
I'm thinking about trading in some of my older Nikon gear toward a Z6/24-70/FTZ. WTH, I don't use the old stuff, so I think I would get more value from trading it for something that I would use, like a Z6/24-70-/FTZ combo. Comments?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: pluton on January 04, 2019, 02:19:43
So they copied what Kirk did with their monopod head and attached an Allen wrench to the device. Good idea! Another good idea, IMO, is this better wrench from Acratech.

https://www.acratech.net/accessories/stainless-steel-allen-wrench
Wouldn't it be infinitely better to eliminate the Allen head and use a slot that can be turned with a coin, as the inexpensive Sunway gear does?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: pluton on January 04, 2019, 02:23:30
I'm thinking about trading in some of my older Nikon gear toward a Z6/24-70/FTZ. WTH, I don't use the old stuff, so I think I would get more value from trading it for something that I would use, like a Z6/24-70-/FTZ combo. Comments?
If you have lost interest in it and will have no use for it, why not get something new and fun to play with?
I got OK trade in value from KEH for my good condition Nikon F3 cams just a year ago.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on January 04, 2019, 05:05:58
Good luck with your request/discussion regarding Z to Z extension tubes with pass through contacts. 

Any chance of reminding them of producing upgraded (metal bodied)  F to F extension tubes, also with pass through contacts?  (Please.......  ;D)

... 

However, as I already have an appointment with a rep of Nikon UK next week, I will relate to them a wish for a Z extension tube. I might even build one myself after talking to my insider Nikon repair tech who might provide me with [some of] the required parts.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 04, 2019, 11:22:42
Also, received the RRS L-Bracket for the Z cameras. It is nice and it extends to the left (facing forward) to allow the various HDMI connections, etc. to fit in without effecting the vertical mounting. I have other L-Brackers, but this is expensive but nice, IMO. It also has an Allen wrench inset into the L-Pracked held there by two magnets.
Hi Michael, could you please post an image of the brackets?

I'm looking for a plate which covers the entire bottom of the camera so includes a grip extension, Smallrig has one and I expect RRS has the same design but somehow they were unable to have any images on their website so you'll be the first to do so :)

Here's the Smallrig, which is very modular:
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-l-bracket-for-nikon-z6-and-nikon-z7-camera-2258.html
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 04, 2019, 13:29:49
Hi Michael, could you please post an image of the brackets?

I'm looking for a plate which covers the entire bottom of the camera so includes a grip extension, Smallrig has one and I expect RRS has the same design but somehow they were unable to have any images on their website so you'll be the first to do so :)

Here's the Smallrig, which is very modular:
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-l-bracket-for-nikon-z6-and-nikon-z7-camera-2258.html

Here is the insert. Like all RRS, it is the best quality. It allows me to extend the vertical component away from the side of the camera so that I han use HDMI, etc. plugs. It does not address the FTZ component. It does cover the bottom of the camera. I have other ones I could use, but this is the best so far.

You do NOT have to remove the plate to replace the battery on the RRS L-BRacket
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 04, 2019, 13:30:59
The depicted 'Smallrig' (posted by Jan Anne) I suppose will be OK for video usage, but turns the camera handling rather awkward for still photography with a hand-held camera. Also noted that the FTZ adapter is properly supported only for landscape mode as there is no connector for verticals on it. In this respect, the Markins bracket for the FTZ seems much better.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 04, 2019, 13:35:25
Oh well, out for a short spin with the old 50 mm f/1.4 RF Nikkor (2005 revised 'Olympia' model apparently) on the Z6. The lens handles nicely on the Z, however the Amadeo helicoid gets rather stiff in cold weather so one has to work slowly. Which I guess is a major reason for using such a makeshift lens on the new camera anyway :D

A shop girl trying her best not to slip on icy, treacherous frozen ground ...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on January 04, 2019, 13:45:55
Without pictures of the RRS plate available yet, question is if the plate does extend below the battery door / grip area. If so, the additional height obtained this way will improve the grip on the camera. It might be needed however to remove the plate in order to exchange the battery. The RRS plate for the Sony A7iii/A7riii/A9 is like this, with the option of moving the (removable) battery door to the plate.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 04, 2019, 13:50:17
Without pictures of the RRS plate available yet, question is if the plate does extend below the battery door / grip area. If so, the additional height obtained this way will improve the grip on the camera. It might be needed however to remove the plate in order to exchange the battery. The RRS plate for the Sony A7iii/A7riii/A9 is like this, with the option of moving the (removable) battery door to the plate.

You do NOT have to remove the plate to replace the battery on the RRS L-BRacket. I will try to get photos on the camera, but right now I am babysitting my 5 year-old granddaughter. LOL.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 04, 2019, 14:36:20
Without pictures of the RRS plate available yet, question is if the plate does extend below the battery door / grip area. If so, the additional height obtained this way will improve the grip on the camera.
Exactly, I had this type of plate on all three of my Sony's and it really improves the handling, really don't want to go back 5 years in time and use a regular generic shaped plates.

It might be needed however to remove the plate in order to exchange the battery. The RRS plate for the Sony A7iii/A7riii/A9 is like this, with the option of moving the (removable) battery door to the plate.
Also don't like this for two reasons; I want to keep the camera sealed at all times when in the field as I do shoot in the rain and also want to keep the battery door out of the dirt when placing it on the ground.

I've used cheap eBay brackets for the Sony's which worked pretty well as a grip extender but had too much flex for serious tripod use, they were OK for the few times a year I actually used a tripod but for the Z6 I want to have a solid plate with a grip extender.

Maybe my eyes are fooling me but based on early reports of the Smallrig on DPReview it seems that their design also has too much flex when heavier lenses are mounted, see the attached image.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on January 04, 2019, 14:43:07
Doesn't look good to my eyes either...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on January 04, 2019, 14:51:31
I'll be getting the SmallRig only because they seem to be the only one I can find that has a bottom plate that runs the entire length of the bottom of the camera.  I just want a little more space for the grip.  The price seems right as well and the side plate can be completely removed.

I'm not as demanding for tripod work as some of you are, so should fit the bill quite nicely.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 04, 2019, 14:52:19
JA: the lens in question with the Z and 'Smallrig' is 24-70/4 which by no means of imagination can be considered 'heavy'.

Either the bracket is sloppily attached to the camera, or the design is flawed. You guess is as good as mine.

Andrew might enlighten us further when he receives his 'Smallrig'.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 04, 2019, 15:17:45
JA: the lens in question with the Z and 'Smallrig' is 24-70/4 which by no means of imagination can be considered 'heavy'.
In the mirrorless domain any lens of half a kilo and up is considered heavy ;)

Most small primes are within the 250 to 400 gram range, my Voigtlander 15mm FE is only a mere 247 grams.

My 35/1.4 is over 600 grams which I do consider doable but on the heavy side for a small mirrorless camera.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on January 04, 2019, 16:07:32
J.A., my wife shot about 80 staff portraits  using a7iii Batis 85 and Batis 135 using the SmallRig.  No flex.  I do not know if it is substantially different to the one for Nikon Z.  It is not light so I normally have a leather half case on the Sony's.  Gives me the added height plus protects cameras.
Still no Z6 available here.
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on January 04, 2019, 16:32:21
JA: the lens in question with the Z and 'Smallrig' is 24-70/4 which by no means of imagination can be considered 'heavy'.

Either the bracket is sloppily attached to the camera, or the design is flawed. You guess is as good as mine.

Andrew might enlighten us further when he receives his 'Smallrig'.

I might need some pointers for use cases of the l-bracket when I receive it.  I have never used one before, so if I am going to test it out, I may need some pointers to get the data you need reported in a meaningful way.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Tom Hook on January 04, 2019, 18:18:37
Quick shots of RRS plate. Note the hex wrench on the front held by two magnets embedded in frame of plate. Also, the bottom can expand to accommodate UBS, HDMI etc. wires.

It fits the camera very nicely.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on January 04, 2019, 19:08:29
Quick shots of RRS plate. Note the hex wrench on the front held by two magnets embedded in frame of plate. Also, the bottom can expand to accommodate UBS, HDMI etc. wires.

It fits the camera very nicely.

I'm glad you posted pics of the bracket, as they are missing from the RRS website.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on January 04, 2019, 19:35:51
I'm glad you posted pics of the bracket, as they are missing from the RRS website.

Yeah, and isn't that curious. B&H shows a sketch, but no photos. Maybe Tom should ask RRS if they wanna buy some images of their product.  ;)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Chris Dees on January 04, 2019, 20:00:00
Hi Michael, could you please post an image of the brackets?

I'm looking for a plate which covers the entire bottom of the camera so includes a grip extension, Smallrig has one and I expect RRS has the same design but somehow they were unable to have any images on their website so you'll be the first to do so :)

Here's the Smallrig, which is very modular:
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-l-bracket-for-nikon-z6-and-nikon-z7-camera-2258.html

I have the Smallrig + FTZ extension. It fits nicely. I'll have it with me next Friday, you can judge yourself :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on January 04, 2019, 21:07:59
Quick shots of RRS plate. Note the hex wrench on the front held by two magnets embedded in frame of plate. Also, the bottom can expand to accommodate UBS, HDMI etc. wires.

It fits the camera very nicely.

Thanks Thom for posting these pictures, very helpful.

It is good to see that the plate enhances the grip of the camera without blocking the battery door. Things are not so good imho with the l-part. Depending on its mounting position it will block the plate mounting screw, and the plate without the l-part will have two sharp edges at the left bottom side that might become a little uncomfortable on the palm of the left hand. RRS solved this differently in the Sony plates (l-part between plate and body, so edges pointing upwards). The reason for this l-part mounting scheme could be a locking pin on the plate that fits in the hole on the right side of the bottom of the Z camera, is that pin really there??
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 04, 2019, 22:39:16
A quick photo to show how the RSS Z7 L-Bracket extends to allow me to use various ports, in this case a corded remote.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on January 05, 2019, 02:49:40
I have the Smallrig + FTZ extension. It fits nicely. I'll have it with me next Friday, you can judge yourself :)

Based on your pics I ordered the Smallrig setup.  Seems about perfect for what I need. 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Tom Hook on January 05, 2019, 03:45:08
Thanks Thom for posting these pictures, very helpful.

It is good to see that the plate enhances the grip of the camera without blocking the battery door. Things are not so good imho with the l-part. Depending on its mounting position it will block the plate mounting screw, and the plate without the l-part will have two sharp edges at the left bottom side that might become a little uncomfortable on the palm of the left hand. RRS solved this differently in the Sony plates (l-part between plate and body, so edges pointing upwards). The reason for this l-part mounting scheme could be a locking pin on the plate that fits in the hole on the right side of the bottom of the Z camera, is that pin really there??

Eddie,

These two edges are not what I would I would call sharp, and in fact are nicely machined to a proper smoothness. However, depending how you hold the camera, it could conceivably be uncomfortable. For me it is not a problem.

As for the pin, yes it is there and does fit into the hole you mention.

Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 05, 2019, 08:37:36
Seeing the RRS bracket I'm glad for choosing the Markins (LN-Z7 + LN-FZ). For my hands much more comfortable. Plus it handles vertical orientation of the camera with FTZ better.

The L-bracket for Olympus E-M.2 is constructed in similar manner to the RRS and using that camera hand-held with the bracket is not comfortable (for my hands).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: chambeshi on January 05, 2019, 10:41:49
The SunwayFOTO L-bracket for my D850 works fine on the Z7

fyi 2 more options for L Brackets
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/01/03/new-3-legged-thing-zelda-l-brackets-for-nikon-z-series-cameras.aspx/ (https://nikonrumors.com/2019/01/03/new-3-legged-thing-zelda-l-brackets-for-nikon-z-series-cameras.aspx/)

https://www.acratech.net/l-brackets-and-nodal-rails/extended-universal-l-bracket/ (https://www.acratech.net/l-brackets-and-nodal-rails/extended-universal-l-bracket/)

I've settled on Acratech quick-release plates and their "dry" ballhead + levelling base. lightest and win all round, especially the QR mechanism.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on January 05, 2019, 13:19:35
Seeing the RRS bracket I'm glad for choosing the Markins (LN-Z7 + LN-FZ). For my hands much more comfortable. Plus it handles vertical orientation of the camera with FTZ better.

The L-bracket for Olympus E-M.2 is constructed in similar manner to the RRS and using that camera hand-held with the bracket is not comfortable (for my hands).

This morning the postman delivered the Markins PN-Z7 + LN-Z7. The plate PN-Z7 is fine, but the l-part LN-Z7 imho not. It is considerably weakened due the thin area where there is no dovetail. It is very easy to (visibly) flex it by hand when mounted. This one will go back.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 05, 2019, 16:55:43
For my use with the Nikon Z7, I find the RSS L-Bracket on the camera plus the Markins Quick Release L-Bracket-Nikon on my FTZ adapter the perfect fit. This allows me to use the camera or the FTZ adaptor, each either horizontally or vertically... independent of one another. Sometimes I need the added strength of the FTZ adapter to handle large lenses like the Otus series, and so on.

The RRS camera L-Bracket allows me to extend the vertical piece of the L-Bracket so that I can accommodate the various plug-in devices on the left side of the camera. I typically use a corded remote, for example.

I also have the ProMediaGear PLX4 | 4 inch Universal L Bracket which is only $89 and does a lot of what the RSS L-Bracket does, but not as elegantly, IMO.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Kenneth Rich on January 05, 2019, 18:21:24
All this focus (pun intended) on brackets, plates, extensions for the Z6/7 and other camera bodies is indicative for this miopic reader that Nikon designers/engineers missed out or knowingly, woefully ignored  an opportunity  to end this "sawn off" look on its line of digital reflex cameras (the Df being a noteworthy exception, and a design feature plus of utility and aesthetic balance that instantly drew me towards the notion of becoming a Df owner), by designing a body that simply incorporates what is lacking so obviously, in the current designs. The third party designers, like the creators of the RRS and other extensions designers were quick to see the failings of the very recent Z designs and so endear themselves to those who see this basic flaw in Nikon Z design. The RRS design, for one, "looks good" so good, that it has become a part of the Z camera body- horse and rider as one, to steal a Nipon philosophy. 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on January 06, 2019, 13:22:01
All this focus (pun intended) on brackets, plates, extensions for the Z6/7 and other camera bodies is indicative for this miopic reader that Nikon designers/engineers missed out or knowingly, woefully ignored  an opportunity  to end this "sawn off" look on its line of digital reflex cameras (the Df being a noteworthy exception, and a design feature plus of utility and aesthetic balance that instantly drew me towards the notion of becoming a Df owner), by designing a body that simply incorporates what is lacking so obviously, in the current designs. The third party designers, like the creators of the RRS and other extensions designers were quick to see the failings of the very recent Z designs and so endear themselves to those who see this basic flaw in Nikon Z design. The RRS design, for one, "looks good" so good, that it has become a part of the Z camera body- horse and rider as one, to steal a Nipon philosophy.

I’m quite happy to have a camera without a bunch of plates bolted on to it. I’ve never felt the need to add brackets and the like.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 06, 2019, 15:02:18
L-brackets have been constantly a part of all my cameras reaching decades back. They allow the versatility and flexibility one requires when working with camera on a tripod. Plus their sturdiness have saved breaking a camera more times than I care to remember.

The point raised by Kenneth about the altered shape factor is shared by me as well. The Z's aren't that bad compared to some early digital inventions, but still the camera feels lopsided for a lack of a better term. The form factor of the Df is far superior.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 06, 2019, 15:44:13
It's not just L-brackets, but a great many adaptors, rings, camera bayonets, extensions, plates, etc. And the same is true for tripods and tripod heads, focus rails, view cameras, and on and on. The camera brand can only go so far. We have to morph it the rest of the way depending on where we are headed. Nikon does not know all of what I use or need.

If you don't use tripods, heads, adaptors, L-Brackets, and so on, of course you don't need them. I need them, especially if I am going to try and take a hundred or so images without anything moving and then combine them into a single image. And I am not even going to mention software, which also is crucial or computer storage. 

IMO, we each are on our photo path and journey. Only we can determine what we need to bring with us. You are free to go "naked" of any encumbrance. I am also free to accompany my camera with whatever makes the job easier or possible.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 06, 2019, 18:37:13
Thanks for posting the images of the plates gents, really appreciated :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on January 06, 2019, 18:56:25
B&H has pics of the Kirk plate and L-brackets. One L-bracket for camera body and another for the FTZ, which appeared very stout. I saw them in the link below under Accessories/Dedicated L-Brackets & Plates:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1431755-REG/nikon_z6_mirrorless_digital_camera.html
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: David on January 08, 2019, 04:01:39
Nikon has made an announcement on adding additional new features for Z6/Z7  in the firmware to be released later.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on January 08, 2019, 04:11:10
Official info on the 14-30 f/4S
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-lenses/nikkor-z-14-30mm-f%252f4-s.html (https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-lenses/nikkor-z-14-30mm-f%252f4-s.html)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 08, 2019, 07:36:09
The MTF curves for the 14-30/4S are promising another excellent performer in the native Z mount. I haven't seen anything like that at the wide end. Long end is excellent too. Price is not too bad either. As my AFS 14-28/2.8 Nikkor seems to be on loan to friends all the time, it's only natural to order the 14-30 as well :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: chambeshi on January 08, 2019, 08:04:13
Less than half the mass of the 14-24 f2.8G AND it takes 82mm filters  :)

The IQ can only be an improvement with 4 ED + 4 aspherical elements

https://photographylife.com/news/nikon-z-14-30mm-f-4-s-announcement (https://photographylife.com/news/nikon-z-14-30mm-f-4-s-announcement)

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on January 08, 2019, 10:44:56
https://m.dpreview.com/news/7011682215/nikon-to-add-eye-af-raw-video-support-and-cfexpress-support-to-z-series?fbclid=IwAR1UeHoDt_dFUviPnIcSgJBQRCU8EtGQXPbbvLPZZkW_c-3NEw-syRrNfJI

   Eye af, raw video and CFexpress support. They look like on the way
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Fons Baerken on January 08, 2019, 10:56:26
That 's good news, maybe they will give this update for the D850 as well.

Btw they should issue a  ZTF adapter :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 08, 2019, 15:00:35
The ZTF adapter would serve no useful purpose ....

I have ordered the 14-30 today.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 08, 2019, 15:17:26
The ZTF adapter would serve no useful purpose ....

it must be made of antimatter to adapt by antimeters ,,😙😂😂😂😂🤣😂
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 08, 2019, 15:36:53
My comment were addressing two issue of using the native Z lenses on an F mount camera.

Firstly, one needs to have full electronic communication camera-adapter-lens otherwise the lens cannot be controlled or operate properly. The data protocols would have to be reversed from what the FTZ implements. This might require a major redesign of the electronics.

Secondly, all Z lenses when put on say an F camera will have approx. 30 mm added extension to them, meaning infinity focus is impossible and only close-ups could be attained. In case of the 24-70/4S, adding a constant extension to a  zoom lens creates  a host of other issues too.

I will however campaign for an Z-Z extension tube in upcoming talks with Nikon.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 08, 2019, 15:40:40


I will however campaign for an Z-Z extension tube in upcoming talks with Nikon.

That's what I would like to see, a Z-Z extension tube, the narrowest possible.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 08, 2019, 15:42:58
I hear you, Michael, although the optical engineers over at the Mothership will be horrified about learning this user wish. And with good reason seen from their point of view, as an extension can only destroy much of the superior performance they have created in these new designs.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 08, 2019, 15:45:30
I hear you, Michael, although the optical engineers over at the Mothership will be horrified about learning this user wish. And with good reason seen from their point of view, as an extension can only destroy much of the superior performance they have created in these new designs.

I totally agree, but I also know a very thin extension tube can be useful. I am thinking of the Z NOCT lens and wanting to get just a wee bit closer. That's if I can afford the lens. Any idea what the price will be? However, the Z NOCT is exactly the kind of lens I like best.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: chambeshi on January 09, 2019, 07:44:26
Design of the Z6 / Z7

https://www.nikon.com/about/technology/design/works/z7_z6.htm (https://www.nikon.com/about/technology/design/works/z7_z6.htm)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 12, 2019, 22:56:11
After reading there will be a 50 f/1.2 and after seeing what the Z6 can do I am possibly interested in that combination...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 12, 2019, 23:02:47
Just for the record, I have submitted the wish for an Z-Z extension tube through the official Nikon channels. No idea whether the product will be manifested though, but it never hurts to make the wish for another feature known to the makers.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JohnBrew on January 13, 2019, 03:14:53
When I read of a Novoflex adapter for Leica M lenses I have, surprisingly, started to show some interest in this setup. I’m still waiting for a native lens which can approach the awesomeness of the Zeiss Otus, which I have, but would never consider for the Z due to weight considerations. A Z, an F adapter and an Otis? The mind boggles.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on January 13, 2019, 10:11:01
Finally had some time yesterday to take some pictures. I grabed the Z6 and Micro 55mm 3.5. Focusing and shooting handheld is a pleasure.

   Sunflower seed on a bench
    and the weapon of choice -phone image-
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 14, 2019, 17:37:54
The Nikkor 50/1.2 Ai-S and Canon 85/1.2 FD mounted on the Z6 using stacked Novoflex adapters, both lenses are normalised to the Leica M mount like my Heligon 100/1.6 which are then mounted on the Z6 with the brand new Novoflex NIK Z/LEM adapter.

If so desired the Novoflex Leica M extension rings can be placed between the two adapters as shown here with the Heligon:
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,8043.msg135178.html#msg135178

As the Nikon FTZ adapter doesn't communicate the used aperture value of unchipped manual focus lenses either there is no loss of functionality but this setup does loose the tripod mount bump under the FTZ and is also a little lighter (105 vs 133 grams).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 14, 2019, 18:15:05
So, you have purchased the Z6 now?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 14, 2019, 18:21:11
DHL delivered it last Friday when Chris Dees was visiting with his Z6.

Needles to say we had lots of fun playing with our new toys :)

I've sold the a7RII a while back and kept the a7S for the Voigtlander 125 APO, can not do without that lens and a Nikon Z adapter is not available yet....
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 14, 2019, 18:48:30
Welcome to the Z users group :D

Does your 125 CV end in Canon EF mount? Probably just a question of time before third-party adapters are available.

FD-Z is available already if memory serves. Better to use a single adapter than a combination of two, in terms of stability. There are excellent F-Z adapters already on the market and they are more compact than the FTZ accompanying your Z6. I'm using such adapters for my Voigtländer 15 mm f/4.5 Heliar etc.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 14, 2019, 20:32:47
I have been using split adapters for a few years now and am perfectly fine with it, I had no IQ issues and it opens up a plethora of opportunities not possible with single adapters. Plus I only had to buy one NIK Z / LEM adapter to use my lenses in Leica M, Nikon F and Canon FD mount instead of buying three :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 14, 2019, 20:35:10
Your choice, of course. As long as the stuff delivers all is well.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 14, 2019, 20:42:50
I have been using split adapters for a few years now and am perfectly fine with it, I had no IQ issues and it opens up a plethora of opportunities not possible with single adapters. Plus I only had to buy one NIK Z / LEM adapter to use my lenses in Leica M, Nikon F and Canon FD mount instead of buying three :)

what is a NIK Z/lem adapter and perhaps a link to where I can read about ti or buy it, please.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 14, 2019, 21:11:45
Nikon LM-Z:  (Leica bayonet) >  Z mount. Plenty of those on eBay.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 15, 2019, 00:16:05
what is a NIK Z/lem adapter and perhaps a link to where I can read about ti or buy it, please.
This one: https://www.novoflex.de/en/products-637/lens-adapters//adapterfinder-products/camera/nikon-z-mirrorless/objectiv/31.html

Please be aware that the image isn't of the actual Nikon Z to Leica M adapter, I received one from the first batch today and they will probably update the image on their website soon. I might post an image tomorrow if somebody is interested, the one posted looks more like the one I have for the Sony FE mount.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 15, 2019, 01:28:23
This one: https://www.novoflex.de/en/products-637/lens-adapters//adapterfinder-products/camera/nikon-z-mirrorless/objectiv/31.html

Please be aware that the image isn't of the actual Nikon Z to Leica M adapter, I received one from the first batch today and they will probably update the image on their website soon. I might post an image tomorrow if somebody is interested, the one posted looks more like the one I have for the Sony FE mount.

Yes, I would like to see the image. Is a screw mount for the Leica?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 15, 2019, 09:12:10
Leica M, ie. bayonet.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 15, 2019, 10:55:27
Why not cut to the chase and install your 55mm f/1.2 CRT Nikkor directly on a focusing helicoid, Michael? 42mm thread helicoids abound on eBay and are quite cheap. Add a 39-42 ring in front and put a Z bayonet at the other end, and you're good to go.

The setup depicted below allows focusing the 55 CRT from 20 cm to approx. 5m, the latter being far outside its effective working range so one perhaps only needs 20 cm to 1 m. However, this was the only suitable helicoid floating around at present on my work table so will have to do for now. Most importantly, the focusing extension now covers the optimum design range for the 55 CRT (1:4 ~1:5x).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 15, 2019, 11:04:04
Why not cut to the chase and install your 55mm f/1.2 CRT Nikkor directly on a focusing helicoid, Michael? 42mm thread helicoids abound on eBay and are quite cheap. Add a 39-42 ring in front and put a Z bayonet at the other end, and you're good to go.

The setup depicted below allows focusing the 55 CRT from 20 cm to approx. 5m, the latter being far outside its effective working range so one perhaps only needs 20 cm to 1 m. However, this was the only suitable helicoid floating around at present on my work table so will have to do for now. Most importantly, the focusing extension now covers the optimum design range for the 55 CRT (1:4 ~1:5x).

where would I get a Z bayonet?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 15, 2019, 11:07:12
I can order for you ...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 15, 2019, 12:25:19
I can order for you ...

How kind of you. If they are easy to get, I would take a couple and send you by PayPal whatever is needed. I could really use those. Thank you.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 15, 2019, 12:29:52
No problem. Shall we say 2 mounts? Might take a few weeks to get as the repair shop orders parts only twice a month, though. I can put in the order during the day.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on January 15, 2019, 12:36:08
No problem. Shall we say 2 mounts? Might take a few weeks to get as the repair shop orders parts only twice a month, though. I can put in the order during the day.

That would great. I am liking the Z7 a lot. It is very nice on view cameras too.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on January 15, 2019, 14:15:06
I think that BORG should be offering a Z-mount version of such an adapter sooner or later.

This thin camera mount has the 49.8mm thread for wich they also offer a 49.8 to 42mm adapter.  Then you can add virtually anything you want.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 15, 2019, 21:11:26
OK, here's a couple of quick snapshots with the iPhone of the Novoflex Leica M adapters on or with the Z6 and the original Sony a7S (the MKII+ models are much bigger).

The Leica M adapter for the Nikon Z mount is much larger than its Sony FE counterpart because the Z mount is much larger in diameter and the flange distance is 2mm shorter for the Nikon as well, with both things combined you end up with a Leica M adapter which is much larger in diameter and also 2mm thicker.

The adapter for the Zee mount is so big that Novoflex decided to move the lens lock button from the side of the adapter to the front of the adapter so operating it doesn't intervene with the two custom Fn1 and Fn2 buttons  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 18, 2019, 11:22:42
An annoying feature of the Z range is the inability to record multiple images into a final NEF format. You only get a jpg(fine). It escapes me why they haven't done the same implementation as say on the Df where you indeed get a composited RAW file??

Even more so as there is an option to store all intermediate captures as NEFs.

Z6, 58/1.4 Voigtländer, multiple exp.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on January 18, 2019, 14:27:32
So you "blended" that image in Post then?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 18, 2019, 14:36:58
Nope. This is the camera output.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: rosko on January 19, 2019, 00:15:29
Hello all !

I am showing some interests toward this camera. So far I was considering this new comer with a placid eye and didn't even try to find out about its potential, at least for my use.

So, having now more free time, I started to read this thread from the beginning this morning, and wow, no so bad, actually !

I already reached the 13th page and the read is leading myself to ask 2 questions :

# Is any M42/Z mount adapter able to give infinity without any glass inside of course ? I would say yes, as the distance from the sensor to the rear glass is much longer than the F system. just to be sure.

# Is the body fitted stabilisation system really efficient even with lens without VR ?

I am going to carry on my reading... ;D

thanks, Francis.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on January 19, 2019, 00:44:58


# Is any M42/Z mount adapter able to give infinity without any glass inside of course ? I would say yes, as the distance from the sensor to the rear glass is much longer than the F system. just to be sure.

# Is the body fitted stabilisation system really efficient even with lens without VR ?


Yes, the flange distance for Leica mount is deeper than Z so adaptation of lenses does not have focus distance limitations.

The in-body image stabilization (IBIS) works with my old AI and pre-AI lenses. It is best with the native Z mount lenses designed for the camera, but is still effective with old glass. With static subjects I think it is at least worth two stops. I've found it helpful handholding long lenses (300mm) and also with normal lenses in low light (longer than 1/10 second).

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 19, 2019, 00:45:13
Hello all !

I am showing some interests toward this camera. So far I was considering this new comer with a placid eye and didn't even try to find out about its potential, at least for my use.

So, having now more free time, I started to read this thread from the beginning this morning, and wow, no so bad, actually !

I already reached the 13th page and the read is leading myself to ask 2 questions :

# Is any M42/Z mount adapter able to give infinity without any glass inside of course ? I would say yes, as the distance from the sensor to the rear glass is much longer than the F system. just to be sure.

# Is the body fitted stabilisation system really efficient even with lens without VR ?

I am going to carry on my reading... ;D

thanks, Francis.

To answer your questions,

1. M42>Z adapter will give infinity focus and there is no glass inside the adapter

2. The VR is pretty effective. I have managed formerly unheard of feats such as shooting 200/2 AFS down to 1/3 sec with good-excellent results. For the similar focal length without VR, perhaps to 1/6 or 1/10. So yes, the built-in VR works.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 19, 2019, 00:55:20
By the way, Francis, there will be a good deal of Z cameras in the NG Meet-up in Scotland in May as several of the participants do use them. You will be able to indulge in the new camera range there  :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on January 19, 2019, 03:54:50
To answer your questions,

2. The VR is pretty effective. I have managed formerly unheard of feats such as shooting 200/2 AFS down to 1/3 sec with good-excellent results. For the similar focal length without VR, perhaps to 1/6 or 1/10. So yes, the built-in VR works.

I can't claim to have such steady hands, but was fine shooting 300mm at 1/15th in very dim conditions.

Here is a 100% view and the whole photo. This lonely wheelbarrow has been on this job for several months now and is getting close to end of life.

Note that without the rear display folding out and the ability to zoom in on the image in the viewfinder it is difficult for me to photograph in such dim conditions.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 19, 2019, 09:45:02
Awesome news for the Sony users whom are (thinking of) jumping to the Zee cameras, Gabale is working on an electronic Sony FE to Nikon Z mount!!!!

Check the details here at F&M:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1579875/16

This opens up a whole lot of possibilities for those whom invested heavily in Sony E adapters over the last couple of years.

Personally this would mean that one adapter can be used to:
- Adapt my Voigtlander 15/4.5 FE and Zeiss 35/1.4 FE
- Adapt the Voigtlander 125/2.5 APO with the Metabones Canon EF to FE adapter
- Use the Voigtlander close focus (helicoid) Leica M to FE adapter with the 50/1.2, 85/1.2 and 100/1.6 Heligon
- Make the mentioned manual lenses in to AF lenses with the Techart Leica M to FE autofocus adapter

Some examples here on NR where they've mounted a Sony 55/1.8 FE, a Canon EF 50mm and a Leica M lens:
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/01/18/this-is-the-upcoming-techart-autofocus-lens-adapter-for-nikon-z-mount.aspx/#more-131743

I was hoping for such an adapter but didn't think it would materialise so quickly.

And yes this is why I split my adapters, it's all about the Lego  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Seapy on January 19, 2019, 10:01:39
Awesome news for the Sony users whom are (thinking of) jumping to the Zee cameras, Gabale is working on an electronic Sony FE to Nikon Z mount!!!!

And yes this is why I split my adapters, it's all about the Lego  ;D ;D

Great  news Jan, better a 'wobbly' (a hair less than rock solid?) lens mount, than no way of making the connection.  The short and large Z mount really pays off for stuff like this.  A wide base makes a good foundation, think pyramid?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 19, 2019, 10:21:17
Quote
... And yes this is why I split my adapters, it's all about the Lego  ;D ;D

The Z mount is equivalent to a 'Duplo' brick in the Lego system :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Chris Dees on January 19, 2019, 11:16:30
So we have a Dr. Lens in the community and now a Mr. Adapter too. :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on January 19, 2019, 11:40:22
Hahahaha, don't know about that but did adapt Nikon F, Canon EF, Canon FD, Contax G, Leica M, Leica LTM / M39 and M52 lenses for the Sony A7 series in the last 5 years or so, combined with the native FE lenses that's 8 different mounts I've tried with various levels of success.

It's way more fun to explore the new capabilities of a mirrorless platform instead of focussing on what it does less well compared to a DSLR  :) :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on January 19, 2019, 11:53:50
Mirrorless cameras with the appropriate adapters are pretty much lens brand agnostic.  ;D

The Z Series with their 16mm lens mount/sensor register distance and their very wide throat mounts are likely to prove the most agnostic of the mirrorless cameras currently available.


..................................................................................................
It's way more fun to explore the new capabilities of a mirrorless platform instead of focussing on what it does less well compared to a DSLR  :) :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Chris Dees on January 19, 2019, 12:08:03
Hahahaha, don't know about that but did adapt Nikon F, Canon EF, Canon FD, Contax G, Leica M, Leica LTM / M39 and M52 lenses for the Sony A7 series in the last 5 years or so, combined with the native FE lenses that's 8 different mounts I've tried with various levels of success.

It's way more fun to explore the new capabilities of a mirrorless platform instead of focussing on what it does less well compared to a DSLR  :) :)
It's even more fun to take pictures. :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: rosko on January 19, 2019, 13:03:57
The in-body image stabilization (IBIS) works with my old AI and pre-AI lenses.

Thank you, Jack for these explanations. the picture of old barrow wheel tells a good news about the stabilization system !

My interest to this camera is growing... ::) :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: rosko on January 19, 2019, 13:15:14
By the way, Francis, there will be a good deal of Z cameras in the NG Meet-up in Scotland in May as several of the participants do use them. You will be able to indulge in the new camera range there  :D

Indeed !  I've already noticed many Z cam. owners are on the list of the meet-up. That'll be a productive subject.

Can't wait ! :P
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: rosko on January 20, 2019, 11:23:32
I just finished the whole reading of this thread.

Just one word : TEMPTING !

Oh dear ! ???

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on January 20, 2019, 12:17:28
Now what about a special version of the FTZ adapter with built-in teleconverter...  :( (D850 / 105VR, built-in stacking for dummies, Helicon Focus)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 20, 2019, 13:29:03
Apparently the "dummies approach" worked ... Nice product shot.

Not sure about the idea of putting a TC into the FTZ. You would upset the optical design of a lot of candidate lenses for the TC plus likely getting an issue with register distance. That is, unless the length of that particular FTZ is adjusted to bring the geometry correct and one actually ends up more or less with the same layout as shown in your picture.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 20, 2019, 14:30:22
Apparently the "dummies approach" worked ... Nice product shot.

Not sure about the idea of putting a TC into the FTZ. You would upset the optical design of a lot of candidate lenses for the TC plus likely getting an issue with register distance. That is, unless the length of that particular FTZ is adjusted to bring the geometry correct and one actually ends up more or less with the same layout as shown in your picture.

it is obviously stacked...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on January 20, 2019, 14:43:27
The empty space in the FTZ could be filled with additional elements for a potentially even better TC, it doesn't have to become shorter in length. The setup as shown is easy to use with patience, in times without that I prefer a single piece solution.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 20, 2019, 15:43:04
The empty space in the FTZ could be filled with additional elements for a potentially even better TC, it doesn't have to become shorter in length.  ---

The F-mount lenses are designed for a given register distance. Putting glass into an FTZ would wreak havoc on that.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on January 20, 2019, 17:00:49
The F-mount lenses are designed for a given register distance. Putting glass into an FTZ would wreak havoc on that.

The existing teleconverters change register distance and have glass in them as well (without it they are merely extension tubes) so they are already wreaking havoc. If we don’t limit ourselves to strict adherence to the FTZ, it certainly would be possible to create a one piece TC which fits between an F lens and Z body. Call it the FTCZ. Because of the additional space available with Z mount, it may be possible that it would perform better than current teleconverters.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 20, 2019, 18:57:04
The TC's of today all have the usual 46.5mm register distance of the F mount.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on January 20, 2019, 19:14:58
The TC's of today all have the usual 46.5mm register distance of the F mount.

This is because they have to! Other brands have teleconverters with different register distance so clearly that distance is not a magic number. Nikon could take existing designs and integrate a spacer the length of FTZ, or there may be an optical/cost/size advantage to designing one which does not require the extra distance.

The dumb approach of integrating a spacer removes one pair of mounts and contacts which means better weatherproofing, increased electrical reliability and better mechanical stability, and requires mechanical design only (no optical change). A more comprehensive optical redesign could achieve all that while also potentially decreasing size or improving optical quality.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 20, 2019, 19:20:47
I don't expect Nikon to do this feat. All TCs for F-mount do have the same register distance whether they are Nikon-made or not.

Of course Nikon can recompute existing designs, or make new ones, but I have a feeling their main thrust for native lenses of the Z range is on shorter focal lengths. Long lenses are very expensive and making a dedicated lens of this class for the Z system is not economic before the Z itself is a major player in their line-up.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on January 20, 2019, 19:41:08
I don't expect Nikon to do this feat. All TCs for F-mount do have the same register distance whether they are Nikon-made or not.

Of course Nikon can recompute existing designs, or make new ones, but I have a feeling their main thrust for native lenses of the Z range is on shorter focal lengths. Long lenses are very expensive and making a dedicated lens of this class for the Z system is not economic before the Z itself is a major player in their line-up.

Yes, it is all dependent on how prevalent Z system becomes. Also, seems the trend in teleconverters may be to build it into the lens itself.

I’m only continuing as it seems you are missing a point I’m trying to make. Nikon F mount and Nikon compatible TCs must have the same register distance, therefore they all have it. But Canon TCs have a different register distance as do other brands. The register distance is a design constraint. The point is that Nikon could easily extend the rear flange of existing TCs and add Z type mount with just a bit of mechanical engineering, allowing long lens design to stay the same for both F and Z mount. No recomputing necessary.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 20, 2019, 20:34:43
So, to what end? One particular lens would have to be made in two separate versions any way. At present the F system is the default, so one adds the ~30mm spacer required for F>Z. Were the opposite scenario manifested, the native Z version would require an internal spacer of the same magnitude to be able to be used on F and still one would have to remove a section of the lens.

That different camera systems and their lenses are designed with different register distances is a moot point here.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on January 20, 2019, 21:33:05
So, to what end? One particular lens would have to be made in two separate versions any way. At present the F system is the default, so one adds the ~30mm spacer required for F>Z. Were the opposite scenario manifested, the native Z version would require an internal spacer of the same magnitude to be able to be used on F and still one would have to remove a section of the lens.

That different camera systems and their lenses are designed with different register distances is a moot point here.

I’m only talking about a teleconverter for Z cameras to use F telephotos. Lenses stay the same. Removes the FTZ from the chain.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 20, 2019, 21:42:02
We'll see in a few years' time. A lens cannot be optimised equally well for both systems is my hunch. But I've been proven wrong before.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 21, 2019, 14:26:09
The Z6 is the "high ISO" champion in the Z range -- so far.

A quick demonstration of how it handles 50K ISO (51200), 80K ISO(eq.), 100K ISO(eq.) and finally 200K ISO(eq.). The 50K ISO (51200) rating is the upper end of the factory calibrated ISO settings, the remainder correspond to Hi0.7, Hi1, and H2, respectively.

All with the 50/1.8S on the Z6 a dark, cold winter night. Hand-held, f/9, and shutter speeds starting around 1/60 sec. NEFs run through Photo Ninja at flat settings expect for the noise reduction, that was set to 'moderate'. Downscaled and converted to sRGB before posting here.

My impression is that one can, given conducive situations, get a lot out of the camera even at these elevated ISO equivalents.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on January 21, 2019, 16:18:32
Impressive  :o
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 21, 2019, 18:22:20
The frames captured with the 50/1.8S can be compared to the one below, taken with the very flat 15mm f/4.5 Voigtländer Heliar at 24K ISO (25600) on the Z6. Same vantage point and processing as before.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: John Geerts on January 21, 2019, 19:22:40
That looks very impressive.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on January 22, 2019, 05:39:32
Birna, these images are unbelievable...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 22, 2019, 10:40:05
Birna, these images are unbelievable...

Even am impressed myself -- so cannot wait for the Noct* 58/0.95 S to be released. I have it on pre-order
* the darkness hunter
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on January 22, 2019, 11:41:23
Even am impressed myself -- so cannot wait for the Noct* 58/0.95 S to be released. I have it on pre-order
* the darkness hunter

You should be able to freeze a crow in flight at night.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 22, 2019, 12:12:38
Well, there remains the small problem of focusing -- the new Noct, in common with its predecessors in the F line, is a manual-focus lens only.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on January 22, 2019, 12:16:11
Well, there remains the small problem of focusing -- the new Noct, in common with its predecessors in the F line, is a manual-focus lens only.

Okay, then you could test the resolution by shooting a black cat sleeping...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 22, 2019, 15:26:56
Thank you, Birna. Even 200k are still usable and better than film at 1600 ASA. Stunnig.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on January 22, 2019, 15:37:38
Indeed, impressive.    I've still not had a need to shoot beyond ISO 12,800...but it is good to see that these images are possible well beyond what I am shooting.   I might need to experiment a little bit more!  :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 22, 2019, 15:44:31
Indeed, impressive.    I've still not had a need to shoot beyond ISO 12,800...but it is good to see that these images are possible well beyond what I am shooting.   I might need to experiment a little bit more!  :D

note that with earlier generations the exposure latitute gets smaller and smaller the higher you pump the ISO. With a rental D5 I saw similar results at ISO 100k, but half a stop makes a huge difference like it was with slide film in film days
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on January 22, 2019, 16:23:17
note that with earlier generations the exposure latitute gets smaller and smaller the higher you pump the ISO. With a rental D5 I saw similar results at ISO 100k, but half a stop makes a huge difference like it was with slide film in film days

True, I definitely keep those kinds of factors in mind when the need comes to shoot ISO 3200 and beyond.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: rosko on January 23, 2019, 23:16:15
For those wanting to have look inside the Z6 :

https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z6-disassembly-teardown/

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on January 27, 2019, 09:25:10
FWIW, here's the cross section of the comming 14-30/4.0 Zoom for the patent application.  L41 is the focusing element.

Source:
https://hi-lows-note.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2019-01-17
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 27, 2019, 10:52:03
A lens for all seasons ... already ordered.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Chris Dees on January 27, 2019, 11:28:05
A lens for all seasons ... already ordered.

Which one will be first? The new Noct or this one? :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 27, 2019, 12:21:14
Which one will be first? The new Noct or this one? :D

It's a toss-up at present, me thinks. Need to ensure there is enough funds in the banking account, though.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on January 27, 2019, 13:45:10
My wild guess is that both Neo-Noct and 14-30 zoom will be releast at the same time.  At this moment, they are the only Z lenses whose outlooks are known.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on January 27, 2019, 16:50:00
My wild guess is that both Neo-Noct and 14-30 zoom will be releast at the same time.  At this moment, they are the only Z lenses whose outlooks are known.

The outlook of the 24-70/2.8 S is also known, maybe the next in line after these two. Personally I am interested in both 24/1.8 S and 85/1.8 S, both coming this year too.

https://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Nikon-NIKKOR-Z-24-70mm-f2.8-S-lens.jpg
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on January 27, 2019, 17:00:06
My wild guess is that both Neo-Noct and 14-30 zoom will be releast at the same time.  At this moment, they are the only Z lenses whose outlooks are known.

Maybe it is just my perception, but it seems like Nikon is releasing product by product - Z7 -> Z6 ->50mm-> Z6 video kit ... rather than releasing a family or group of products at once. Certainly the new Noct is exciting enough to release by itself.  I wonder if the 14-30 will get its own release or be overshadowed by Noct.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Per Inge Oestmoen on January 27, 2019, 21:42:09
I’m only talking about a teleconverter for Z cameras to use F telephotos. Lenses stay the same. Removes the FTZ from the chain.


I would prefer a FTZ adapter having an aperture follower ring, ensuring true compatibility (without the old fashioned stop down metering) with the many admirably performing AI/AIS lenses.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on January 27, 2019, 21:51:25
The outlook of the 24-70/2.8 S is also known, maybe the next in line after these two. Personally I am interested in both 24/1.8 S and 85/1.8 S, both coming this year too.

https://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Nikon-NIKKOR-Z-24-70mm-f2.8-S-lens.jpg

Thank you for the additional info on 24-70/2.8 which looks as bulky as the AF-S VR version.   :o

You mean, 20/1.8?  The release of 24/1.8 is scheduled for 2020.


Maybe it is just my perception, but it seems like Nikon is releasing product by product - Z7 -> Z6 ->50mm-> Z6 video kit ... rather than releasing a family or group of products at once. Certainly the new Noct is exciting enough to release by itself.  I wonder if the 14-30 will get its own release or be overshadowed by Noct.

Both Nikon and Canon have to enrich their new mirrorless systems as quickly as possible before the Tokyo Olympic Games.  So, Nikon may release the lense in groups.  But indeed the neo Noct could be released alone, because it is sensational enough.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on January 27, 2019, 21:59:21
Thank you for the additional info on 24-70/2.8 which looks as bulky as the AF-S VR version.   :o

You mean, 20/1.8?  The release of 24/1.8 is scheduled for 2020.

In the updated lens roadmap the release of the 24/1.8 has been moved forward from 2020 to 2019, the release of the 20/1.8 S has been pushed back from 2019 to 2020...

https://nikonrumors.com/2019/01/08/updated-nikon-z-mirrorless-lens-roadmap-a-total-of-23-z-lenses-by-2021.aspx/
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: pluton on January 28, 2019, 00:13:41


I would prefer a FTZ adapter having an aperture follower ring, ensuring true compatibility (without the old fashioned stop down metering) with the many admirably performing AI/AIS lenses.
+1
Seems like something that Nikon could do if they wanted to.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on January 28, 2019, 00:24:30
I went out today with the z6 and 105mm 2.5 ai. This lens has a cpu upgrade and it works like a charm. Focusing is a pleasure with peaking and magnification at any distance.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on January 28, 2019, 00:42:51
In the updated lens roadmap the release of the 24/1.8 has been moved forward from 2020 to 2019, the release of the 20/1.8 S has been pushed back from 2019 to 2020...

https://nikonrumors.com/2019/01/08/updated-nikon-z-mirrorless-lens-roadmap-a-total-of-23-z-lenses-by-2021.aspx/

Oh, I missed the info on the NR.  Thank you for updating "my" awareness!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 28, 2019, 09:41:41
Paco's contribution shows the power of the old 105 is still present with the Z6. Not entirely unexpected, I'd say. In particular the first example is strikingly good.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JohnBrew on January 29, 2019, 18:41:54
I went out today with the z6 and 105mm 2.5 ai. This lens has a cpu upgrade and it works like a charm. Focusing is a pleasure with peaking and magnification at any distance.
Good to know. But, then i’ve never found a Nikon on which this lens wasn’t stellar. Someday (maybe sooner...) i’ll Try it on the Z7.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on January 29, 2019, 19:19:42
Since I don’t read manuals much: What «cable release» is currently the «ultimate» solution when >30 sec. is needed?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 29, 2019, 19:25:44
Plenty of alternatives - just ensure the camera end has the proper USB plug. Hahnel, Aputure, Hama... Cheap knock-offs work well enough (I have one labelled VHBW RS006, and at least one or two of other brands).

If you should purchase a Foolography GPS for your Z6, they tend to come bundled with a remote release. Mine did.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on January 29, 2019, 20:03:07
Plenty of alternatives - just ensure the camera end has the proper USB plug. Hahnel, Aputure, Hama... Cheap knock-offs work well enough (I have one labelled VHBW RS006, and at least one or two of other brands).

If you should purchase a Foolography GPS for your Z6, they tend to come bundled with a remote release. Mine did.

Foolography ... if they come at all ... waiting since Photokina
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on January 29, 2019, 20:07:15
They are located in Berlin -- give them a call. No need to wait for Godot (oops GPS). I got my Photokina order a long time ago. A perfect match for the Z6 and Z7.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on February 05, 2019, 22:40:05
Received my 50/1.8S today and despite darkness and no tripod I had to test it out. These images are not meant to be technically "perfect" rather I think they demonstrate the possibilities the new camera system provides.
All handheld.
EXIF:
First one is f/1.8, ISO 100, 1/50s.
Second is f/1.8, ISO 4000, 1/5s.
Third is f/1.8, ISO 8000, 1/4s.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 05, 2019, 22:44:51
I wager a guess the new lens worked to satisfaction?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on February 05, 2019, 23:09:09
I wager a guess the new lens worked to satisfaction?

Your wager is right. The lens is not perfect but for the money it is very, very good. Still a long canvas to paint before I can say I know this lens in ‘n out.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 07, 2019, 14:51:44
I now see the contours of a complete lens line-up for my Z6 using the "ancient" RF Nikkors ('S' mount) and equivalents. the latter being of course more modern developments made by Cosina/Voigtländer in the mid 'naughties (approx. 2005). Using the Roxsen N(RF)-Z adapter or a dummy F-Z (for the 15mm Heliar), the focal length ranges covered in the shot below are 15 to 105mm. It should be evident these lenses are surprisingly petite even with their adapters added. They are a lot of fun to use on the Z cameras and results are surprisingly good too.

Lenses depicted here are Voigtländer 15mm f/4.5 Heliar (F mount),  Voigtländer 21mm f/4 SC Skopar (RF mount), 3.5cm f/1.8 W-Nikkor, 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor 'New Olympia' (in a focusing DIY mount), Voigtländer 50mm f/1.5 Nokton (RF mount), 8.5cm f/2 Nikkor (RF, the legendary Nikkor) on the Z6, 10.5cm f/2.5 Nikkor ('Sonnar' type). I do have some of the longer RF Nikkors such as the  25cm f/4 and 35cm f/4.5 as well, plus the 13.5cm f/4 Bellows-Nikkor. I also have a nice black 13.5cm f/3.5 Nikkor RF.

Nikon enthusiasts will note this particular 8.5cm Nikkor is the rarer Contax version as indicated by the 'C' engraved on the focusing barrel, but of course this has no significance on the Z camera with its visual focusing.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JohnBrew on February 07, 2019, 21:01:52
Rented a Z7. I like it a lot. There are some features I like better than others. I really LIKE the placement of the ISO button. Probably because my thumb is double-jointed. The OK button will take some getting used to. At first every time I tried to navigate with the wheel I'd hit the OK button before the directional ring. First problem I've encountered is an inability to download files from the XQD card. My PC won't recognize it. My MacBook Pro recognizes it but won't download the files. I did download some stuff from Nikon which was supposed to facilitate the XQD, but didn't seem to be any real help. I have a call to my Nikon friend who has an 850 so I'm sure we'll be able to suss it out.

Not too impressed with the 24-70 so far. Comparing resolution between my 810 and Z7 on just the LCD's at 100% I see no advantage for the Z7. I suppose I would have to print larger than I am capable of to see an improvement from higher mp's.
Oh, the EVF is just fine. I expected I would hate it, but not the case at all.
More thoughts later...

BTW Birna, that 85 looks terrific on the camera.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 07, 2019, 21:13:41
Do you have an XQD card reader? It's a pretty standard USB 3 device that also should be USB 2 backwards compatible.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 07, 2019, 21:17:12
Rented a Z7. I like it a lot. There are some features I like better than others. I really LIKE the placement of the ISO button. Probably because my thumb is double-jointed. The OK button will take some getting used to. At first every time I tried to navigate with the wheel I'd hit the OK button before the directional ring. First problem I've encountered is an inability to download files from the XQD card. My PC won't recognize it. My MacBook Pro recognizes it but won't download the files. I did download some stuff from Nikon which was supposed to facilitate the XQD, but didn't seem to be any real help. I have a call to my Nikon friend who has an 850 so I'm sure we'll be able to suss it out.

Not too impressed with the 24-70 so far. Comparing resolution between my 810 and Z7 on just the LCD's at 100% I see no advantage for the Z7. I suppose I would have to print larger than I am capable of to see an improvement from higher mp's.
Oh, the EVF is just fine. I expected I would hate it, but not the case at all.
More thoughts later...

BTW Birna, that 85 looks terrific on the camera.

I guess you like to buy a Lexar Professional Workflow XQD reader with USB3...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JohnBrew on February 07, 2019, 21:45:04
Do you have an XQD card reader? It's a pretty standard USB 3 device that also should be USB 2 backwards compatible.
Yes, they sent one with the rental. It uses a USB-2 connection, made by Sony. I haven't tried the cable from the camera to download with - is that even an option?

Frank, you may be right! I guess I could get one from B&H before I have to return the camera.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 07, 2019, 22:01:20
Sometimes driver installation for new devices is all fucked up if you pardon the expression. I had issues with a Sony XQD reader on one of my Windows boxes and only managed to get it working by hooking it up to a USB 2 port, then install drivers, reboot and plug the reader into a USB 3 port. Now it just purrs along. Revenge of the Nerds, I'd surmise.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 07, 2019, 22:03:35
---  BTW Birna, that 85 looks terrific on the camera.

I thought the same thus I actually went all out and purchased another 8.5cm Nikkor to get it in black livery instead of the chrome version already in my possession.

Optically they are identical, but looks do count :D Now the 3.5 cm f/1.8, 8.5 cm f/2, 10.5 cm f/2.5, and 13.5 cm f/3.5 all are in satin black with a dash of chrome to them.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on February 07, 2019, 22:26:56
Birna, if I'm not mistaken, I see an S-mount 50/1.4 (the last version of Gaussian design) as well.  How do you find its image characterics on digital?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 07, 2019, 22:40:36
Yes, I commented it earlier as "Nikkor New Olympia" -- it is the 2005 Jubilee version that came with the Nikon S3 (2005) camera (which I also own together with a black S3 AP from mid '60s).

It is more contrasty than the older 50mm designs from the rangefinder era, no doubt thanks to improved optics and better coatings. Still it has the slightly softer, "rounded" rendition that make these older lenses so enjoyable.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on February 07, 2019, 23:21:33
Yes, I commented it earlier as "Nikkor New Olympia" -- it is the 2005 Jubilee version that came with the Nikon S3 (2005) camera (which I also own together with a black S3 AP from mid '60s).

It is more contrasty than the older 50mm designs from the rangefinder era, no doubt thanks to improved optics and better coatings. Still it has the slightly softer, "rounded" rendition that make these older lenses so enjoyable.

Thank you, Birna.  I didn't realize that the Jubilee version had the "Nipon Kogaku" designation on the front ring.  If I remember correctly, the original Olympia version was engraved "Nikon".
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JohnBrew on February 07, 2019, 23:39:12
Okay, my friend with the 850 solved the problem. And the answer is: go to Bridge, File, Get photos from camera. Then it will download what you have plugged in to the USB port. Interestingly the images came in to PS as D850 images. I think it is because I'm using an older version of PS due to problems with Windows 10.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on February 08, 2019, 01:22:12
I now see the contours of a complete lens line-up for my Z6 using the "ancient" RF Nikkors ('S' mount) and equivalents. the latter being of course more modern developments made by Cosina/Voigtländer in the mid 'naughties (approx. 2005). Using the Roxsen N(RF)-Z adapter or a dummy F-Z (for the 15mm Heliar), the focal length ranges covered in the shot below are 15 to 105mm. It should be evident these lenses are surprisingly petite even with their adapters added. They are a lot of fun to use on the Z cameras and results are surprisingly good too.

Lenses depicted here are Voigtländer 15mm f/4.5 Heliar (F mount),  Voigtländer 21mm f/4 SC Skopar (RF mount), 3.5cm f/1.8 W-Nikkor, 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor 'New Olympia' (in a focusing DIY mount), Voigtländer 50mm f/1.5 Nokton (RF mount), 8.5cm f/2 Nikkor (RF, the legendary Nikkor) on the Z6, 10.5cm f/2.5 Nikkor ('Sonnar' type). I do have some of the longer RF Nikkors such as the  25cm f/4 and 35cm f/4.5 as well, plus the 13.5cm f/4 Bellows-Nikkor. I also have a nice black 13.5cm f/3.5 Nikkor RF.

Nikon enthusiasts will note this particular 8.5cm Nikkor is the rarer Contax version as indicated by the 'C' engraved on the focusing barrel, but of course this has no significance on the Z camera with its visual focusing.

How are images from the 21mm f/4 and the 8.5cm? I think that might be a small kit to use (and doesn't overlap the kit zoom in focal length or character)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 08, 2019, 09:49:34
The 21/4 Skopar is a recent addition and I just have done some test shots with it. They look good enough although still early days to describe the inherent character of this lens.

Some examples from the 8,5cm f/2 Nikkor RF are presented below. Taken with Sony A7 and Nikon Z6.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 08, 2019, 12:00:58
Another of these oldies springs to life on the Z camera: 25 cm f/4 Nikkor-Q from the early '50s.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Olivier on February 08, 2019, 12:12:07
Birna, your car has a color that Peugeot makes only for you!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 08, 2019, 12:19:37
Birna, your car has a color that Peugeot makes only for you!

There is interference with caked grime and mud on it, as well.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on February 08, 2019, 13:16:33
Birna have you been to Copenhagen for shopping Z equipment ? ;)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 08, 2019, 13:18:57
Birna have you been to Copenhagen for shopping Z equipment ? ;)

No. I have alternatives back home.

Copenhagen is a nice, albeit windy, city which I have visited many many times. If Erik hadn't been so busy at present I would have liked to go there again in a short while. I just acquired a Laowa macro lens I intend for the use on the Z7. Some extra trimming is required. I might have to find a solution on my own. The temporary approach is using a thin CPU-modified extension ring. Has to do for now until I have recovered from the recent bronchitis attack and gained more energy.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on February 09, 2019, 00:37:55
Another of these oldies springs to life on the Z camera: 25 cm f/4 Nikkor-Q from the early '50s.

   Such a wonderful image Birna.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on February 09, 2019, 00:44:17
The more I use the Z6 the more I like it for what I do. I have a solid 1 step advantage in usable -for me- iso over the already great d750. And silent... It works wonderfully with both the 24-70 2.8 vr and the 70-200e, my main stage lenses for results and versatility.

   A shot to show the how the 3200 iso looks in low light and how the  AF learning curve is getting  better. 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ian R on February 10, 2019, 18:52:52
Really enjoyed this thread - and all the photos within. I have been using a Df and added a D850, and the Z range is something I would really like to get into so that I can use my manual Nikkors (like the 105mm f/1.8 and 200mm f/4) as well as the new lenses coming out.

Has there been a consensus for the one to go for - Z6 or Z7? Price is not such a deal as this purchase will be used and enjoyed hopefully for a good while.

The Z7 seems to be the one to go for, but if anyone has tried them back to back, any input would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 10, 2019, 19:02:34
For hand-held use I would prefer the Z6. I have reserved my Z7 for studio work.

In most respects, apart from MPix and ISO capabilities, they are interchangeable.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on February 10, 2019, 19:04:11
Really enjoyed this thread - and all the photos within. I have been using a Df and added a D850, and the Z range is something I would really like to get into so that I can use my manual Nikkors (like the 105mm f/1.8 and 200mm f/4) as well as the new lenses coming out.

Has there been a consensus for the one to go for - Z6 or Z7? Price is not such a deal as this purchase will be used and enjoyed hopefully for a good while.

The Z7 seems to be the one to go for, but if anyone has tried them back to back, any input would be appreciated.

I have Z6 as it is slightly better in low light and is cheaper. It is also said to be better for video, but I don’t have experience with that. Nikon put out their video kit with the Z6 as the base, so that should say something.

I’m expecting that there will be things learned from Z6 and Z7 that Nikon will roll into next generation bodies so I did not want to spend everything on a first generation camera.

Since you have a d850 I think you might want to think of the Z6 to fill the role of the Df. The d850 covers most of the uses for the Z7.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ian R on February 10, 2019, 20:57:48
Thank you - in fact reading a bit more the Z6 does sound more suitable. Just that I was so pleased with the D850 sensor so its 'known' as it were. Exciting times!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ian R on February 13, 2019, 00:23:13
Z6 ordered and arriving tomorrow. Got it from WEX.

I can now use all the lenses that have sat just waiting for a sensor such as the Isconar 100mm f/4 that I was servicing earlier along with some 1950's Rodenstock in DKL mount along with the new glass.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 13, 2019, 08:28:57
Congratulation on a new, fine camera. You will feel "at home" very quickly as it is just like any Nikon really.

The ability to adapt so many third-party lenses to the system is a bonus for the experimentally inclined photographer. Today I plan on finalising the focusing mount for my 100/1.6 Rodenstock, allowing it to reach infinity focus.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ian R on February 13, 2019, 12:08:52
Thank you Birna.

I have over the years acquired so many unusual lenses from my old workplace such as some custom made closed circuit TV lenses and the like it is going to be an interesting year.

I will have to order up some body caps to allow me to fit the lenses (into a tube or similar) as adpators are not available.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 13, 2019, 12:21:34
One can use spare Z mounts as well. I have ordered - and used - a handful of these during the last months. Today's project is, finally, a focusing mount for the 100/1.6 Rodenstock to allow infinity focus.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 13, 2019, 18:02:05
Today I finalised the infinity-focusing adapter for the Rodenstock 100mm f/1.6 Heligon and similar lenses on the Z cameras.

With bits and pieces all collected and accounted for, making the adapter itself was a 20 min job.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 13, 2019, 18:06:53
Surprising sharp lens that 100mm from Rodenstock ...

This is 100% crop from an image taken with Z6. The crane was approx. 200m away. What I initially thought was a speck of dust on the sensor turned out to be a bird in flight(!).

(http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8355.0;attach=37664;image)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 13, 2019, 18:20:08
I tested for infinity focus on the rear forested ridge in the picture below, distance about 10 km. Last view of the evening sky from my balcony with the hand-held Z6. The adapter will definitively allow focus to be moved even farther away if the need arises.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on February 13, 2019, 21:57:29
This is great. I have the same project at my hands now. Got the focussing collar. Still need to find the lens side of the Z bayonet.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 13, 2019, 22:04:23
I can order Z mounts for you, Sten. In fact, I'm going to Fotocare tomorrow for a talk with my friendly Nikon repair tech and get more parts.

The lens will fit into focusing helicoids with inner threads of 48mm or larger. I used 65mm helicoid 17-31mm extension (Pixco). Inner front threads 52 mm as this is my de facto standard for exotica. On the rear I cheated a little and used the combination of 58-62 and 58-52 that slips neatly over the mount itself.

Just PM me.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ian R on February 13, 2019, 23:13:32
Worth the effort for sure. Lovely results.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 13, 2019, 23:15:10
Still, by adding a K4 or K5 ring to the front of the focusing helicoid, the usual dream-like pictures can be had with this lens as before. Thus one loses nothing and gains versatility.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 15, 2019, 14:51:21
One can still extract wonderfully unsharp and blurry images with the Rodenstock 100mm lens, even in its Z-mount version. That ability is kept intact in combination with the option to focus to infinity.

(http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8355.0;attach=37710;image)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ian R on February 15, 2019, 22:17:30
Whilst not this lens, I have a few Rodenstock lenses and can vouch for them. They used to be much better known and were one of the lens options on the famous Kodak Retina series (where I first tried them).

These days they are mostly forgotten apart from by those who remember (or care) - but that they can be used on cameras like the Nikon Z is breathing new life into them. One of the legends was the Rodenstock 30mm f/2.8 of the early 1960's. Amazing quality for the time.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 15, 2019, 22:44:41
Just bring them on.

A worthwhile project whilst awaiting the arrival of new Z-mount Nikkors from the mothership :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 16, 2019, 13:30:59
Another example is this picture taken with the Oude Delft Rayxar 50mm f/0.75 lens. Here I actually added more extension than required to move focus a bit closer, otherwise corner vignetting would be too severe. An alternative would of course be to set the image frame to DX, remove the extension and shoot the lens on my Z7 instead.

For this I used a generic DIY 52mm thread>Z mount adapter that proves handy for many projects.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nasos Kosmas on February 16, 2019, 15:49:50
Excellent color and bokeh!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Chris Dees on February 16, 2019, 16:47:10
Some more recent lenses. :)
Z6 + 16/3.5 AI-d
Z6 + 70-300E, IMHO a very underrated lens
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on February 26, 2019, 06:39:06
Awesome news for the Sony users whom are (thinking of) jumping to the Zee cameras, Gabale is working on an electronic Sony FE to Nikon Z mount!!!!

Check the details here at F&M:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1579875/16

This opens up a whole lot of possibilities for those whom invested heavily in Sony E adapters over the last couple of years.

Personally this would mean that one adapter can be used to:
- Adapt my Voigtlander 15/4.5 FE and Zeiss 35/1.4 FE
- Adapt the Voigtlander 125/2.5 APO with the Metabones Canon EF to FE adapter
- Use the Voigtlander close focus (helicoid) Leica M to FE adapter with the 50/1.2, 85/1.2 and 100/1.6 Heligon
- Make the mentioned manual lenses in to AF lenses with the Techart Leica M to FE autofocus adapter

Some examples here on NR where they've mounted a Sony 55/1.8 FE, a Canon EF 50mm and a Leica M lens:
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/01/18/this-is-the-upcoming-techart-autofocus-lens-adapter-for-nikon-z-mount.aspx/#more-131743

I was hoping for such an adapter but didn't think it would materialise so quickly.

And yes this is why I split my adapters, it's all about the Lego  ;D ;D
JA, I watched the Vids.  Seems auto focus with the 55 f1.8 was a bit slow and I only noticed them using single point in the centre. The rear screen seemed to show correct info.  It would be nice if the family could use lenses (Nikon, Sony and Leica M) on both Sony a7xx and Nikon Z on trips.  My son has the VM 15 f4.5III in his bag and I have a tough time getting it away from him  :(
Hopefully some better information will be available once the adapters are in use.
Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ian R on February 26, 2019, 22:50:30
Inspired by Birna, I have just (for the first time) dug out my old Rosenstock lenses to use on my Z6. Mine are all DKL and whilst there is no Z-DKL adapter, there is a F-DKL.

I went out and tried one out today on the Df to get the feel for them on a known camera, but despite getting some pleasing photos, the rear protrusion of the DKL lenses makes for the mirror to hang in the DF on the return. So only Z6 use from now on.

Typical German results - lower contrast, but high resolution - and VERY pleasing colours.

For the Kodak Retina 35mm Reflex there are:
30mm f/2.8
35mm f/4
50mm f/1.9
50mm f/2.8
85mm f/4
135mm f/4

The 35mm f/4 was used for the below photos.

To have quality German glass available at low prices second-hand is almost a gift. And they make for a truly compact outfit.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 27, 2019, 09:04:43
Another option for that "old-fashioned", slightly muted look.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 27, 2019, 15:13:56
Inspired by Birna, I have just (for the first time) dug out my old Rosenstock lenses to use on my Z6. Mine are all DKL and whilst there is no Z-DKL adapter, there is a F-DKL.

I went out and tried one out today on the Df to get the feel for them on a known camera, but despite getting some pleasing photos, the rear protrusion of the DKL lenses makes for the mirror to hang in the DF on the return. So only Z6 use from now on.

Typical German results - lower contrast, but high resolution - and VERY pleasing colours.

For the Kodak Retina 35mm Reflex there are:
30mm f/2.8
35mm f/4
50mm f/1.9
50mm f/2.8
85mm f/4
135mm f/4

The 35mm f/4 was used for the below photos.

To have quality German glass available at low prices second-hand is almost a gift. And they make for a truly compact outfit.

the look appeals to me.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on February 28, 2019, 10:30:26
Impres-Watch posted a report of Nikon lenses and samples displayed at CP+2019:

https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/eventreport/1172164.html

The 24-70/2.8 zoom has an OLED screen to display the apreture or distance setting.

And this is a cut-model of Z Noct 58mm/f0.95 (copied from the article), a 10g/17e monster!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 28, 2019, 10:44:57
If Nikon has surplus samples of the Noct 58/0.95 to cut through, perhaps we'll see actual lenses occurring real soon?

Thanks for the heads-up, Akira. ありがとう、あきら
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on February 28, 2019, 10:48:01
If Nikon has surplus samples of the Noct 58/0.95 to cut through, perhaps we'll see actual lenses occurring real soon?

According to the report, the visitors can "touch and try" the actual new lenses; 24-70/2.8, 14-30/4.0 AND 58/0.95!

So, it shouldn't be too long before you can perform the hands-on test for yourself.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on February 28, 2019, 11:15:54
Then Cosina announced the development of VM-Z as well as VM-Z Close Focus adapters for Leica M mount lenses to put on Z bodies.  The Close Focus version has a focusing helix that allows 5.5mm extention:

https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1171710.html
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 28, 2019, 22:11:20
The 24-70mm f/4S Nikkor - the 'Z kit lens' - is talked down on several forums. I find it quite versatile and having a very good image quality across the entire frame. Although it is not very small it still is pretty light weight and makes for a great travel companion with the Z6. There are no immediate plans on my part for replacing it with the faster f/2.8 model now about to be released.

The photo below is @24mm and f/5.6. No later geometric correction.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on February 28, 2019, 22:42:11
The 24-70mm f/4S Nikkor - the 'Z kit lens' - is talked down on several forums. I find it quite versatile and having a very good image quality across the entire frame. Although it is not very small it still is pretty light weight and makes for a great travel companion with the Z6. There are no immediate plans on my part for replacing it with the faster f/2.8 model now about to be released.

The photo below is @24mm and f/5.6. No later geometric correction.

Birna,

I think the Z cameras seem to do correction in camera for this lens. But the results can't be argued with. I like it a lot and think F/4 hits more of my requirements than the f/2.8 would.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 28, 2019, 22:44:55
This is NEF processed in Photo Ninja, which doesn't know much about any Z camera. I have turned off whatever control I could detect in the menus.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 01, 2019, 00:51:30
This is NEF processed in Photo Ninja, which doesn't know much about any Z camera. I have turned off whatever control I could detect in the menus.

Does that mean that you disagree with what Jack said about the Z6 doing internal correction for this lens?

Let me add my agreement with that image you posted. Looks good to me!  :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 01, 2019, 09:12:42
None of the above. I simply don't know as the innards and mechanisms of these picture machines are hard to comprehend for the uninitiated.


"It has been most unconsciously done, however, ..."
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 01, 2019, 12:20:46
Another pleasant and useful aspect of the Z cameras is the true silent mode. I snapped this on the Oslo metro without the person just a few cm away noticing anything untoward. Shooting literally from the hip and AF picked the phone as the target point -- entirely in agreement with the passengers' attention too.

24-70/4S @24mm, f/4,ISO 3200, Z6
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 01, 2019, 13:09:50
ADDITIONAL INFO on CP+2019:

Nikon displays mock-ups of six Z lenses to be released in the future:

https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/eventreport/1172477.html

Seen in the second image from the top (from left to right): 24/1.8 (filter thread: 72mm) and 85/1.8 (67mm)

The third image: 20/1.8 (77mm), 50/1.2 (82mm) and 14-24/2.8 (apparently no filter thread)

Fourth image (far right): 70-200/2.8 (77mm)

Seventh image: the battery grip containing two EN-EL15 batteries for 1.8x battery life.

Hope this would be of any help and enjoyment.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 01, 2019, 13:17:38
There is recent talk about a "Z5" too -- a consumer model.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 01, 2019, 13:22:16
There is recent talk about a "Z5" too -- a consumer model.

There's no mention of Z5 at least in the reports from CP+2019, but there might be some announcement?  We still have two more days for CP+2019.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 01, 2019, 13:47:15
Z5 is mentioned here:
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/02/28/cp-show-report-new-nikon-z-camera-designed-for-consumers-will-be-coming-soon-nikon-z5.aspx/#more-133012
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on March 01, 2019, 13:49:28
Akira - an interesting link - thank you.

I also see Sony CFexpress cards depicted in the link - alongside a Z7.  I wonder how far off these cards are?


ADDITIONAL INFO on CP+2019:

Nikon displays mock-ups of six Z lenses to be released in the future:

https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/eventreport/1172477.html

Seen in the second image from the top (from left to right): 24/1.8 (filter thread: 72mm) and 85/1.8 (67mm)

The third image: 20/1.8 (77mm), 50/1.2 (82mm) and 14-24/2.8 (apparently no filter thread)

Fourth image (far right): 70-200/2.8 (77mm)

Seventh image: the battery grip containing two EN-EL15 batteries for 1.8x battery life.

Hope this would be of any help and enjoyment.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 01, 2019, 13:51:44
Z5 is mentioned here:
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/02/28/cp-show-report-new-nikon-z-camera-designed-for-consumers-will-be-coming-soon-nikon-z5.aspx/#more-133012

Thank you, Bent.  The camera in the picture look like Z6/7 though.

Akira - an interesting link - thank you.

I also see Sony CFexpress cards depicted in the link - alongside a Z7.  I wonder how far off these cards are?

You are welcome, Hugh.  The release date of the CFexpress cards is not mentioned, but the next firmware update for Z6/7 includes the added compatibility to CFexpress.

Another section of Impress-Watch mentiones that Sony is planning to release the 128GB CFexpress card in this summer.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on March 01, 2019, 16:20:37
Some help please
Today I took some of my f mount lenses down to my dealer planning on picking up the Z6 kit if I was happy with AF.  Never got as far as testing AF since EVF stayed completely blown out.  So bright I could hardly see the targets.   I had my own card and the images were not over exposed but camera was unusable.   I have shot Z6 and Z7 before
Changing settings and doing a re-set did not do anything  but when we put the 24-70S on the camera all was good.  Owner is going to try working it out and I am going back Monday or Tuesday
Some setting we are missing?  I was using tc 1.4 II in 300 2.8vr in  very bright,  flat light.
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 01, 2019, 16:42:01
Might be an issue with the FTZ adapter? You can try attaching the 300 without the TC to learn whether that changes the outcome as well.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 01, 2019, 18:18:25
Some help please
Today I took some of my f mount lenses down to my dealer planning on picking up the Z6 kit if I was happy with AF.  Never got as far as testing AF since EVF stayed completely blown out.  So bright I could hardly see the targets.   I had my own card and the images were not over exposed but camera was unusable.   I have shot Z6 and Z7 before
Changing settings and doing a re-set did not do anything  but when we put the 24-70S on the camera all was good.  Owner is going to try working it out and I am going back Monday or Tuesday
Some setting we are missing?  I was using tc 1.4 II in 300 2.8vr in  very bright,  flat light.
Tom

I’ve noticed that if I’ve zoomed the EVF that it will not respond to changing light levels. Zooming back out let’s the camera meter/reset auto iso again. Check setting d8 as well.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 01, 2019, 19:07:19
Thank you, Bent.  The camera in the picture look like Z6/7 though.


The low-cost should were mentioned in the text.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: rosko on March 02, 2019, 01:28:05
After about one week with the Z6 I am discovering...

Very nice rendition and tunes of the colours with great dynamics.

However I hardly cope with the menus...Ergonomics are quite different.  You have to go in the menus if you need to change anything while you have buttons with the Df. So I have to define all my needs in the ''U'' modes.

This object seems robust and well finished. I didn't get the 24-70 f/4 S as I want lenses I can use on the Df, so I got a second hand AFS 24-85 f/4,5-5-6 in mint condition which operate beautifully. Very happy with this combo. I don't think is heavier than the original kit.

A small detail I like : the switch can be turned on with one finger (like D700) no like the Df one which is hard to turn without the little tab, you need two fingers.

Also I am very impressed with the electronic viewfinder, after having read many complaints about it. Really useful ! Focus peaking helps a lot with manual focus lenses.

I have of course to get used with it.

Some features I didn't find so far :

# DOF control with manuels lenses;

# I couldn't fire the flash SB900;

Some pics will follow. :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 02, 2019, 01:48:11
z6 with 58mm @ 1.4  1/160th iso1600 very underexposed, needed +2.4 ev in post. Impressed. AF worked very good with the lens fully open with this low light levels.

  Surfers at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on March 02, 2019, 04:38:08
Might be an issue with the FTZ adapter? You can try attaching the 300 without the TC to learn whether that changes the outcome as well.
Birna, many thanks.  I have the feeling that it is the TC.  I will certainly try taking it off.  My wife was double parked on a very busy street while we were trying to change settings so did not have as much time as I would have liked.  I did try the 58 1.4 inside the shop and it was fine but did have problems with AF in the mixed, bad light in the shop.   I am reasonably happy with the Sony a7iii for fast action shots but only have FE70-200 f4 as long lens so my quandary is buy a Z6 to use on my 70-200 f2.8G VRII, AFS 80-400G, 300 2.8 G VR and 500 f4 G vr or Sony 100-400.  The Z6 kit is cheaper than the Sony lens (not to mention a TC 1.4 added).   I can always just use my D500 and take more care with Fine Tuning.
Jack, I will pass your comment to the owner of the shop.  He is an Ex Nikon shooter who has gone to Sony but does have a very good Nikon shooter working for him who was not present.
For the moment my Df is not for sale :) and am back to thinking about a D750 ;) for the ISO (cheapest option ) .
Many thanks
Interesting but was surprised to see the WB figure in the exif box using ViewNX-i
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 04, 2019, 05:32:56
This footage was posted by Impress-Watch.  The introduction of 58/0.95 Neo-Noct starts at 2:00.  On the large monirotor next to the tripod, you can see how the lens sees the world.  Could be an itching teaser?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=120&v=GBOLr8qtRSI
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 04, 2019, 09:19:01
Except for no obvious "cat's eyes" to be seen, really hard to tell anything about the 58/0.95. I didn't understand the spoken words in the video so any  hidden goodies of information in the conversation were not obvious to me either.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 04, 2019, 10:37:15
Except for no obvious "cat's eyes" to be seen, really hard to tell anything about the 58/0.95. I didn't understand the spoken words in the video so any  hidden goodies of information in the conversation were not obvious to me either.

Sorry for your inconvenience.  Actually, they don't offer any new or interesting info worth translating.  The footage offers only the approximation of the "lens' view" other than the content of the article shared previously.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 04, 2019, 11:26:00
You probably would encounter similar problems with a video conducted in Norwegian :)

When one observes the 58/0.95 on a camera and has people around as a yardstick, it doesn't look impossibly large to handle. I must start reallocating funds for the upcoming purchase ...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 04, 2019, 11:52:58
Z6 has taken a prominent place in my normal everyday picture taking and at work as well. A token of one of the latest promotional shoots. An alley next to Jerez´s cathedral works as a background. Lens working between f1.4 and f2.8
1.58mm
2. 28mm (close to dx crop)
3. 105mm


   I have shot a couple of shows with led lights, one bad, one horrible but the little z6 manage to work them through
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Fons Baerken on March 04, 2019, 12:01:03
Great images, Paco. So rewarding to have a willing model :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Fons Baerken on March 04, 2019, 12:34:12
This footage was posted by Impress-Watch.  The introduction of 58/0.95 Neo-Noct starts at 2:00.  On the large monirotor next to the tripod, you can see how the lens sees the world.  Could be an itching teaser?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=120&v=GBOLr8qtRSI

I read a rumour of a price of 6000.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 04, 2019, 13:01:09
Thanks Fons  :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 04, 2019, 15:22:47
This footage was posted by Impress-Watch.  The introduction of 58/0.95 Neo-Noct starts at 2:00.  On the large monirotor next to the tripod, you can see how the lens sees the world.  Could be an itching teaser?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=120&v=GBOLr8qtRSI

cateye bokeh like the 1.4/105E
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 04, 2019, 16:24:34
I read a rumour of a price of 6000.

The price seems to be higher than OTUS by a whole step.   :o :o :o


cateye bokeh like the 1.4/105E

You would need to double the diameter of the front element to avoid the catseye bokeh.   :o :o :o
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on March 04, 2019, 16:45:45
Z6 has taken a prominent place in my normal everyday picture taking and at work as well. A token of one of the latest promotional shoots. An alley next to Jerez´s cathedral works as a background. Lens working between f1.4 and f2.8
1.58mm
2. 28mm (close to dx crop)
3. 105mm


   I have shot a couple of shows with led lights, one bad, one horrible but the little z6 manage to work them through
Paco, very nice.  I particularly like the B&W  ;) .  Interesting, Jerez (and surrounding area) has always been one of my favourite locations in Europe.  :)
Cheers,
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Erik Lund on March 04, 2019, 16:50:36
The price seems to be higher than OTUS by a whole step.   :o :o :o

...
It's also a step brighter  ;D
Similar priced to a 200mm f/2 AFS VR - Seams reasonable  8)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 04, 2019, 16:53:22
You would need to double the diameter of the front element to avoid the catseye bokeh.   :o :o :o

I own and love the 1.4/105E, I just bought the 2/200VR and will see if I love it...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 04, 2019, 16:56:23
Z6 has taken a prominent place in my normal everyday picture taking and at work as well. A token of one of the latest promotional shoots. An alley next to Jerez´s cathedral works as a background. Lens working between f1.4 and f2.8
1.58mm
2. 28mm (close to dx crop)
3. 105mm


   I have shot a couple of shows with led lights, one bad, one horrible but the little z6 manage to work them through

all my best to Olga, I love the third best, great natural expression
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 04, 2019, 16:56:43
It's also a step brighter  ;D
Similar priced to a 200mm f/2 AFS VR - Seams reasonable  8)

Yes, especially compared to Leica Noctilux.   :o :o :o
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 04, 2019, 16:59:31
Z6 has taken a prominent place in my normal everyday picture taking and at work as well. A token of one of the latest promotional shoots. An alley next to Jerez´s cathedral works as a background. Lens working between f1.4 and f2.8
1.58mm
2. 28mm (close to dx crop)
3. 105mm


   I have shot a couple of shows with led lights, one bad, one horrible but the little z6 manage to work them through

Paco, you and your Z6 do justice to the excellent flamenco dancer.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Fons Baerken on March 04, 2019, 17:01:39
I own and love the 1.4/105E, I just bought the 2/200VR and will see if I love it...

You did huh, i was thinking but i have a 300/2.8, enjoy.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 04, 2019, 17:06:48
You did huh, i was thinking but i have a 300/2.8, enjoy.

and the 24PCE too...

You will see more cat's eyes

 ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 04, 2019, 19:47:38
I'm still processing images from my big 4 day Arnold Sports Festival in Columbus.

I was hired by a company to work on Saturday for them all day.  They gave me a D5 and 24-70/2.8 to use.
On that, quickly before getting into the Z6....I am so glad I cannot afford the D5.  My GOD that thing is a crafted piece of beauty and power!

I had it powered on from 8am until 8pm, took almost 3000 shots with it and the battery was still registering full.  I had it on CH12 and AF-C/D9 and it just killed it all day long.  Even swapped out the 24-70/2.8 and popped on my Tamron 70-200/2.8 VC.  Didn't miss a beat.

Now for the Z6.  It killed it too.  I'm honestly starting to get a little PO'd with the internet Youtubers and bloggers.  They trashed the hell out of this camera for AF performance.   While I will concede that it is not at a D5/D500 level...I'm getting as good an AF performance out of this thing as I was my D700/D750 for the boxing I shot, images attached below.

I shot H+ motor drive, AF-C with dynamic area AF.  Where I was shooting from I held the camera down on the ring apron below the bottom rope and used the rear LCD, actuated the shutter with the normal release.    I used the Z 35mm f/1.8S and it was fantastic.  Tack sharp, quickly focused on what I needed.

I even shot standard JPG...so I'm not even tapping into the power of RAW with the images below.  When Nikon decides to crack the ultimate performance of the on sensor phase detection....well, that's another discussion for another time.

Anyway, please enjoy the images below.   I was shooting between 1/500 and 1/1000 of a second at f/2.2 and f/2.8.   ISO was running around 1600-2500.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 04, 2019, 20:13:28
The Z6 is great theVloggers are dead wrong. Thank you for enlighting us!!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 04, 2019, 20:37:37
The power of the Z range emerges more clearly day by day ....

I'm now seriously considering having another Z6 modified as a dedicated UV or "broad spectrum" camera.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 04, 2019, 21:30:58
The power of the Z range emerges more clearly day by day ....

I'm now seriously considering having another Z6 modified as a dedicated UV or "broad spectrum" camera.

I'd love to see the results of that. 

I'd love to have a dedicated B&W camera, one without the color filter array and purpose built for monochrome.  I guess I could get an existing camera modified.  Not sure if that is any cheaper than getting something like a Leica monochrome...I think I'll just live vicariously right now through my Fuji X-E3 and shooting it in Acros film simulation.   ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 04, 2019, 21:35:24
Oh, and another point about the Z6 and the boxing I shot.

Fresh battery before start of the day.  Took 1200 shots that night, battery was at 67%.   And yes, that was even with some chimping in there for good measure.

Turned around and used the Z6 all day, took another 1300 shots with very similar battery life characteristics.

I did shoot a lot more bursts for capturing action...but it is possible to get a good amount of shots out of the en-el15b batteries.   I thought for sure that I would need a ton of batteries, but thankfully I'm only really needing 1 extra at this point.   Good that I can share same battery with the D500.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 04, 2019, 21:42:54
My experiences with battery capacities on the Z6 are very different. Never got anything above approx. 200 shots per charge. I pack a couple of extra batteries and don't worry too much, however.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 04, 2019, 22:23:10
I'm still processing images from my big 4 day Arnold Sports Festival in Columbus.

I was hired by a company to work on Saturday for them all day.  They gave me a D5 and 24-70/2.8 to use.
On that, quickly before getting into the Z6....I am so glad I cannot afford the D5.  My GOD that thing is a crafted piece of beauty and power!

I had it powered on from 8am until 8pm, took almost 3000 shots with it and the battery was still registering full.  I had it on CH12 and AF-C/D9 and it just killed it all day long.  Even swapped out the 24-70/2.8 and popped on my Tamron 70-200/2.8 VC.  Didn't miss a beat.

Now for the Z6.  It killed it too.  I'm honestly starting to get a little PO'd with the internet Youtubers and bloggers.  They trashed the hell out of this camera for AF performance.   While I will concede that it is not at a D5/D500 level...I'm getting as good an AF performance out of this thing as I was my D700/D750 for the boxing I shot, images attached below.

I shot H+ motor drive, AF-C with dynamic area AF.  Where I was shooting from I held the camera down on the ring apron below the bottom rope and used the rear LCD, actuated the shutter with the normal release.    I used the Z 35mm f/1.8S and it was fantastic.  Tack sharp, quickly focused on what I needed.

I even shot standard JPG...so I'm not even tapping into the power of RAW with the images below.  When Nikon decides to crack the ultimate performance of the on sensor phase detection....well, that's another discussion for another time.

Anyway, please enjoy the images below.   I was shooting between 1/500 and 1/1000 of a second at f/2.2 and f/2.8.   ISO was running around 1600-2500.

Nice work, Andrew, the Z6 looks pretty capable to me. 

I have to say that a couple of those fighters look like they're been around the block more than once. Probably tougher than nails!  ;)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 04, 2019, 22:27:36
My experiences with battery capacities on the Z6 are very different. Never got anything above approx. 200 shots per charge. I pack a couple of extra batteries and don't worry too much, however.

That is a large difference in battery performance, between you and Andrew. I wonder what is causing it?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 04, 2019, 22:48:09
Different ambient conditions - different usage patterns - different users.

I am not in the least surprised. The battery indicator on my Z6 now shows 32%, 92 frames taken.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 04, 2019, 22:48:57
In my experience the z6 uses a lot of power just to stay on. If shooting in a situation like a live show, with lots of images in 60-90 min, the performance is very good, easy north of 1500 shots with battery to spare. Walking around is a different issue. I usually turn int off  and on again just before the shot to extend the life as much as possible. In this situation, and specially if I´m using manual focus, taking more time and using magnification in the evf, reviews, etc...it can drop to 300 before it depletes a fresh battery. I guess the cipa takes time on in consideration in their test?
   Cold weather should not help either.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 04, 2019, 23:19:51
I  am guessing that with the Z  bodies IBIS is on as long as the camera is turned on too. So, slow composition & focusing,  with IBIS running, isn't helping with battery capacity. I'm also in the habit of turning off my cameras between shots. Old habits are hard to break, although I don't have a Z.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 04, 2019, 23:21:46
I turn off the camera frequently as I am a slow worker in terms of my shooting approach. Usually I only take 1-2 frames at the time.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Øivind Tøien on March 04, 2019, 23:23:56
That is a large difference in battery performance, between you and Andrew. I wonder what is causing it?

The conclusions from my empirical analysis of power consumption of  the D500, http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,8114.msg137385.html#msg137385 (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,8114.msg137385.html#msg137385) is just as valid for other bodies, and likely even more so for the Z-series: What matters most is how long the camera stays on. The number of frames shot in a certain interval of camera on-time matters very little. Taking long time to frame a subject and capturing only one frame at a time and having standby timers set to a long interval will cause dramatic decrease in the number of frames on a battery vs. short standby timer and shooting bursts the whole time.  It is really (mostly) not the frames that consume power.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 04, 2019, 23:31:02
Makes perfect sense, Oivind.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 04, 2019, 23:40:30
I turn off the camera frequently as I am a slow worker in terms of my shooting approach. Usually I only take 1-2 frames at the time.

Me too, I've never been one to shoot volume, 1 or 2 at a time.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 05, 2019, 07:48:01
The salient point is to *know* one's camera and its behaviour. The camera is just a pliable tool. If the maker's assumptions of usage pattern are invalid for your own use, change the attitude and instead of complaining about poor battery capacity, bring additional freshly charged batteries. Shooting experience shows how many batteries it is sensible to add to the gear pack of the day. I have typically 1-2 extra batteries with me for a day in the field.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Anthony on March 05, 2019, 11:20:50
The conclusions from my empirical analysis of power consumption of  the D500, http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,8114.msg137385.html#msg137385 (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,8114.msg137385.html#msg137385) is just as valid for other bodies, and likely even more so for the Z-series: What matters most is how long the camera stays on. The number of frames shot in a certain interval of camera on-time matters very little. Taking long time to frame a subject and capturing only one frame at a time and having standby timers set to a long interval will cause dramatic decrease in the number of frames on a battery vs. short standby timer and shooting bursts the whole time.  It is really (mostly) not the frames that consume power.

This is consistent with my experience of the Fuji system.

Shooting single shots through the day gets about 300 out of the battery.

Shooting sports at multiple fps gets about 1000 out of the same battery.

As the batteries are small and light, it is trivial to carry spares on occasions when I expect to do a lot of shooting.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Øivind Tøien on March 05, 2019, 12:29:58
For the Yukon Quest finish  I captured 657 frames and the D500 reported 50% battery charge left while still cold (-7°C), 60% after rewarming, most captures short bursts at 10 frames per sec. So at room temperature I would have expected to get 1657 frames if the battery was run to 0%.

Tonight I captured 422 frames at the Ice Alaska (ice carving) festival and the D500 reported 7% battery charge left while still cold (perhaps -10°C at the start, -16°C at the end), 17% after rewarming. Most exposures were on tripod at ISO 100, several seconds long, reviewed almost every frame and I used live view for perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 of the frames - sometimes forgot to turn off live view when moving between sites, actively shooting for a total of > 4 hours. Standby timer mostly on 6 sec. or 30 sec.

In other words, this is just as expected from our above experiences.

[Edited in battery charge after rewarming and corrected the number of frames. Also flight mode was on and no wifi etc active. (in response to Frank's question below).]
 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 05, 2019, 13:23:39
Does *flight mode* add to battery performance? Mobile phones tend to drain batteries faster with WiFi and other connections switched on.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 05, 2019, 13:42:13
I have wi-fi etc. off.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 05, 2019, 13:55:13
I have wi-fi etc. off.

thank you...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on March 05, 2019, 14:03:58
Frank, there are probably quite a few settings which impact on Battery life with Nikon  MILC bodies.  I have not yet bought a Z6 but having used the Olympus EM-1, Pen F and Sony a7rii I really know about battery life being bad, particularly if you start using WiFi  for transferring or tethering.  My son and I are using tethering cables.  For the Oly bodies I carry 3 or 4 batteries for a long day and same for Sony a7rii. The a7iii has a much better battery so 2 works.  I would have to check my settings but there are quite a few on the Sony bodies which impact on batter life. WiFi and Airplane mode are just two.  Certain things such as pre-AF also use more power.   I have not seen anyone make a list for the Z6/Z7.   I often shoot long events so normally keep the cameras on and awake so battery drain is bad.   Coming from D3S I really have to pay attention   ;) .

Fortunately I have a stack of batteries for the Z6 from other bodies.
Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 05, 2019, 14:14:31
Thank you, Tom. Øivind took a lot of effort to systematically test battery performance. Greatly appreciated. With my DSLRs the usual battery life is in the thousands, with my X100T only a few hundreds. I carry extra batteries for both, just in case....
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: BEZ on March 05, 2019, 14:26:33
As the batteries are small and light, it is trivial to carry spares on occasions when I expect to do a lot of shooting.

True Anthony but I need a least four battery's for a days shooting (I keep the camera constantly awake, not just on). When I don't have a camera bag I put them in my pocket. Annoyingly this seems to be a recipe for me losing them. It is starting to add up and be an expensive issue. I don't ever remember losing a Nikon battery. 

Cheers
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Anthony on March 05, 2019, 15:16:07
True Anthony but I need a least four battery's for a days shooting (I keep the camera constantly awake, not just on). When I don't have a camera bag I put them in my pocket. Annoyingly this seems to be a recipe for me losing them. It is starting to add up and be an expensive issue. I don't ever remember losing a Nikon battery. 

Cheers

I use Think Tank battery holders (I have a 2 and a 4 size) for my batteries.  They are very practical.  Used batteries go back with the terminal showing.  https://www.wilkinson.co.uk/think-tank-dslr-battery-holder-4-pouch/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIw-mlwJfr4AIV753tCh0u8wnOEAQYASABEgLKZ_D_BwE

I turn the camera off when not actually shooting.  I think that significantly improves battery life.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on March 05, 2019, 20:24:49
Time for another photo in this thread.
This one's from South Bank (London).
The 50/1.8S is not perfect...a pack of "seagulls" in the reflections in the water to the lower right. But still a very nice lens.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Ian Watson on March 05, 2019, 20:55:17

Now for the Z6.  It killed it too.  I'm honestly starting to get a little PO'd with the internet Youtubers and bloggers.  They trashed the hell out of this camera for AF performance.   While I will concede that it is not at a D5/D500 level...I'm getting as good an AF performance out of this thing as I was my D700/D750 for the boxing I shot, images attached below.


Thank you for this, Andrew. This thread has been slowly inclining me towards a Z6 but the assorted criticism of the AF elsewhere had been giving me pause. My mind, if not my wallet, can now be at ease.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: BEZ on March 05, 2019, 20:59:06
I use Think Tank battery holders (I have a 2 and a 4 size) for my batteries.  They are very practical.  Used batteries go back with the terminal showing.  https://www.wilkinson.co.uk/think-tank-dslr-battery-holder-4-pouch/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIw-mlwJfr4AIV753tCh0u8wnOEAQYASABEgLKZ_D_BwE

I turn the camera off when not actually shooting.  I think that significantly improves battery life.

Anthony,
Thank you for the link, the pouch should be useful when I don't have a camera bag.

For my style of shooting I constantly tap the shutter to wake up the camera. There is nothing worse than missing the shot because the camera is asleep. Unfortunately the battery only lasts a couple of hours even though I constantly use the OVF. I don't have this problem using my Nikon's, but may if I buy a Z camera?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 05, 2019, 22:20:05
Thank you for this, Andrew. This thread has been slowly inclining me towards a Z6 but the assorted criticism of the AF elsewhere had been giving me pause. My mind, if not my wallet, can now be at ease.

Glad to be of some assistance.  I'm just glad that there are forums like this were we can share true long term usage and experience and not "held the camera for 5 minutes and shot a model in dim bar lights" or "I don't usually shoot in AF-C, but I'm going to do that test, claim to be an expert".
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 06, 2019, 14:08:29
A few more shots from the Arnold Sports Festival 2019

Boxing:
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 06, 2019, 14:10:30
Arnold Sports Festival 2019

Powerlifting with the Z24-70/4S:


Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 06, 2019, 14:12:59
Arnold Sports Festival 2019

Pole Fitness Exhibition (Z24-70/4S):

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 06, 2019, 15:21:42
They really got into pole position :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 06, 2019, 15:24:26
Matt Granger offers hands-on review of 14-30/4.0, 24-70/2.8 and 58/0.95 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4mRO39CyU0

He is speaking English.   ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 06, 2019, 16:09:45
They really got into pole position :D

lol...good one!!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 06, 2019, 17:38:06
Arnold Sports Festival 2019
Powerlifting with the Z24-70/4S:

I guess these girls would be great protection for weak men in a bad neighbourhood ... I love strong women!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 06, 2019, 20:09:48
I discussed the details for building a pass-through extension ring for the Z system with my friendly Nikon repair tech today. My aims are of course firstly the 50/1.8S, and secondly the mighty 58/0.95 when it arrives. We went through all the technical part drawings (which I cannot reproduce as they are classified) and decided upon the parts required. They are now ordered and should arrive within a few weeks' time.

Afterwards, I snapped a photo of him in the bad tech-lab lighting and he did a complimentary free cleaning of my Z6 ... which was a bit more dirty on the sensor than I had thought.

It obviously pays to build and develop relationships.

(24-70, Z6)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 07, 2019, 00:21:21
I discussed the details for building a pass-through extension ring for the Z system with my friendly Nikon repair tech today. My aims are of course firstly the 50/1.8S, and secondly the mighty 58/0.95 when it arrives. We went through all the technical part drawings (which I cannot reproduce as they are classified) and decided upon the parts required. They are now ordered and should arrive within a few weeks' time.

Afterwards, I snapped a photo of him in the bad tech-lab lighting and he did a complimentary free cleaning of my Z6 ... which was a bit more dirty on the sensor than I had thought.

It obviously pays to build and develop relationships.

(24-70, Z6)

 Good one, of a good friend.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 07, 2019, 14:14:05
Candid face af vs stage face af. I have never thought the later will actually work but it does.
First one with 105mm 1.4, rest with 70-200 2.8e

 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 07, 2019, 14:17:52
Paco works. AF works. The Z6 works. All is good.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 07, 2019, 14:18:52
Smaller focus point and some more time. Beginning and end of the piece used light levels even lower and some artificial mist to boot. "Getting to now your gear" series.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 07, 2019, 14:23:45
Paco works. AF works. The Z6 works. All is good.
  :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 07, 2019, 14:50:00
Smaller focus point and some more time. Beginning and end of the piece used light levels even lower and some artificial mist to boot. "Getting to now your gear" series.

low light performance seems to be same ballpark as D5. Very impressive
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on March 07, 2019, 15:20:54
Paco, nice teaching aid and images.  I was surprise how quiet the Z6 shutter is EFCS.  Would not even need to go full Silent for much of my music shooting.
Many thanks for sharing.
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 07, 2019, 15:57:29
Smaller focus point and some more time. Beginning and end of the piece used light levels even lower and some artificial mist to boot. "Getting to now your gear" series.
You seem to know your gear by now, impressive pictures :)
Will miss you in Scotland.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 07, 2019, 18:03:34
How much menu diving is involved in the daily use of the Z6?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 07, 2019, 19:25:15
How much menu diving is involved in the daily use of the Z6?

Honestly, very little.
I have a few things in MyMenu just in case, but rarely do I go in there.  Mostly it is to switch out the manual focus lens info.  Other things like AF settings are in the "i" menu.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 07, 2019, 19:33:43
Honestly, very little.
I have a few things in MyMenu just in case, but rarely do I go in there.  Mostly it is to switch out the manual focus lens info.  Other things like AF settings are in the "i" menu.

Thanks, Andrew. The back of the camera lacks the controls found on some DSLRs, so I wondered if that was an issue in use, or not. Apparently not, which is good news.  :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 07, 2019, 19:55:18
Thanks, Andrew. The back of the camera lacks the controls found on some DSLRs, so I wondered if that was an issue in use, or not. Apparently not, which is good news.  :)

it hasn't been for me...and I thought it might initially.  I do much prefer to have the AF selection on the camera body, but the touch screen controls make things simpler.

You may find that is not something you like, especially if coming from a DSLR or not having used a mirrorless camera before.  Handling and use are the only way for you to know for sure if it is acceptable to you.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 07, 2019, 21:27:40
it hasn't been for me...and I thought it might initially.  I do much prefer to have the AF selection on the camera body, but the touch screen controls make things simpler.

You may find that is not something you like, especially if coming from a DSLR or not having used a mirrorless camera before.  Handling and use are the only way for you to know for sure if it is acceptable to you.

I'm not really in the market for a Z, I'm just nosey.  Thanks for the explanation.  :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 07, 2019, 23:49:56
How much menu diving is involved in the daily use of the Z6?

For me the answer is "very little"

There are plenty of buttons which can be used to change commonly used settings.
For things which I do less frequently, the i menu gives you a great way to access the next tier of functions.
I rarely go any further than that.

Use of U1, U2 and U3 modes can also reduce need to poke around in the menus, though it does take some time to set them up to begin with.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 07, 2019, 23:58:09
You seem to know your gear by now, impressive pictures :)
Will miss you in Scotland.
Thanks Bent. I looked today at the shutter count. I have using it almost exclusively since I got it. Many shots and situations later I´m getting comfortable with the changes and getting used to the strengths. Great tool. Silent shooting is the biggest news for me.
I always wanted to attend NG meeting but after Granada...I´m going to really miss you all and the chance to meet the others too. I´ll be paying close attention to the development!
 
Paco, nice teaching aid and images.  I was surprise how quiet the Z6 shutter is EFCS.  Would not even need to go full Silent for much of my music shooting.
Many thanks for sharing.
Tom
My pleasure. I still feel I owe you all many times over and I´m happy to share and contribute  :) . I use EFC most of the time. Quiet and fast, switching to silent when needed.

Honestly, very little.
I have a few things in MyMenu just in case, but rarely do I go in there.  Mostly it is to switch out the manual focus lens info.  Other things like AF settings are in the "i" menu.
Same here. Controls, function buttons and "I" menu take care of things. Only occasionally going into menus. Formatting the memory card and looking at battery status being my main reason to do so. 

it hasn't been for me...and I thought it might initially.  I do much prefer to have the AF selection on the camera body, but the touch screen controls make things simpler.

You may find that is not something you like, especially if coming from a DSLR or not having used a mirrorless camera before.  Handling and use are the only way for you to know for sure if it is acceptable to you.
  Touch screen comes in handy but it is not my main interaction with the camera. One of the things I´m using is assign the fn2 -front camera, down- plus dials to work as the dslr to select mode and focus area. Normally with every other point active to speed up the movement as it suits better my personal needs.
 
I'm not really in the market for a Z, I'm just nosey.  Thanks for the explanation.  :)
Questions are hard to come by. Please, keep it up  ;)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 10, 2019, 16:58:35
I've seen surprisingly little moiré issues with files from either Z6 or Z7. Or maybe I shouldn't be surprised. The first has an AA filter and the second has the extra-high resolution both measures of which combat moiré to a large extent.

Today, doing test shooting for a specific project involving an Olympus OM 28mm f/3.5 lens, I observed strong moiré for the first time. This issue was present in NEF files, but not with the corresponding in-camera jpgs. Thus it appears that the EXPEED 6 processor massages picture in an efficient manner to avoid moiré problems. I ran the NEFs through several RAW converters with similar result.

The entire scene is here, and below a section presented 100% to show strong moiré in the NEFs and the apparent lack of it in the camera-made jpg.

Have any of our Z camera users encountered such issues? Ping back here.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on March 10, 2019, 17:17:50
I've seen surprisingly little moiré issues with files from either Z6 or Z7. Or maybe I shouldn't be surprised. The first has an AA filter and the second has the extra-high resolution both measures of which combat moiré to a large extent.

Today, doing test shooting for a specific project involving an Olympus OM 28mm f/3.5 lens, I observed strong moiré for the first time. This issue was present in NEF files, but not with the corresponding in-camera jpgs. Thus it appears that the EXPEED 6 processor massages picture in an efficient manner to avoid moiré problems. I ran the NEFs through several RAW converters with similar result.

The entire scene is here, and below a section presented 100% to show strong moiré in the NEFs and the apparent lack of it in the camera-made jpg.

Has any of our Z camera users encountered such issues? Ping back here.

I have seen strong moiré on jeans and mesh-like structures (e.g. grid of Sonos loudspeaker) with the Z7 in combination with both 35/1.8S and 50/1.8S . The higher resolution of the Z7 in no way eliminates moiré, that is a myth.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 10, 2019, 17:33:26
Interesting observation. Have you seen what the corresponding in-camera jpgs look like?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 10, 2019, 17:42:29
I assume that the full size jpg is the result of your post processing of the NEF, and not from the in camera jpg. The 100% views show more detail differences than just the moire. Interesting.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on March 10, 2019, 17:54:53
Interesting observation. Have you seen what the corresponding in-camera jpgs look like?

No, because of only raw shooting. I might try to reproduce it with raw+jpg shooting.

Getting moiré requires good technique  :) ; just a little defocus or motion blur might hide it, and of course the lens has to be sharp enough.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 11, 2019, 22:25:27
Sooner than I had expected , the factory parts I ordered for making an extension ring for native Z lenses arrived.

I have to decide on extension thickness and a suitable platform to mount the parts, but the basic details including the contact pins and signal cable are now in place.

If the project is a success (to be seen), I can provide the part code numbers.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 11, 2019, 22:59:25
Sooner than I had expected , the factory parts I ordered for making an extension ring for native Z lenses arrived.

I have to decide on extension thickness and a suitable platform to mount the parts, but the basic details including the contact pins and signal cable are now in place.

If the project is a success (to be seen), I can provide the part code numbers.

Wondering about the power pigtail that is on the pin array. Does it connect into any of the pins? If not, what is it powering? FTZ appears to get everything through the 11 contacts. Maybe it just provides reference voltage?

-Jack
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 11, 2019, 23:02:25
Might be power to the AF motor of the lens? Early days yet, I just got the parts and have yet to decide on the final solution to the extension ring.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 11, 2019, 23:20:11
On another note, this is an example of the proverbial banding with silent shutter. All else equal, at 1/200th of a second, first shot with efc and second one with silent shutter. Even on the viewfinder the effect was present.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 11, 2019, 23:31:04
Might be power to the AF motor of the lens? Early days yet, I just got the parts and have yet to decide on the final solution to the extension ring.

Pins are on the mount side, not lens, correct?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 11, 2019, 23:33:06
That's correct. These are the parts for the camera bayonet.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: pluton on March 12, 2019, 07:22:20
On another note, this is an example of the proverbial banding with silent shutter. All else equal, at 1/200th of a second, first shot with efc and second one with silent shutter. Even on the viewfinder the effect was present.
This is a Z6/7 phenomenon that occurs with pulsed lights, like LED, is it not?
Apparently, museums are switching to LEDs.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Erik Lund on March 12, 2019, 07:45:10
Sooner than I had expected , the factory parts I ordered for making an extension ring for native Z lenses arrived.

I have to decide on extension thickness and a suitable platform to mount the parts, but the basic details including the contact pins and signal cable are now in place.

If the project is a success (to be seen), I can provide the part code numbers.


What a nice Nikon Lego set  ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 12, 2019, 10:36:35

What a nice Nikon Lego set  ;D


Yes, isn' it?

I have decided that a 65mm focusing helicoid be the basic foundation for the bayonets. Some samples are ordered. They will give approx. 25 to 50mm of extension for the native Z lens, which with the 50/1.8S should give about 1:2 to 1:1.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Erik Lund on March 12, 2019, 10:41:36
Yes, a focusing helicoid would also be my suggestion to make it as versatile as possible.

Very nice service from Nikon to offer these parts!

Too bad I don't have spare time,,,
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 12, 2019, 11:38:59
Yes, a pity we cannot enjoy building that extension ring together. Would be a truly nerdy endeavour in the best of NG traditions.

Meanwhile an improvised test to show how the 50/1.8S performs near 1:1 (lens at f/4, infinity focus). I deliberately shot a high-contrast subject to learn whether chromatic aberrations or flare were triggered, but obviously they are not present. Some increase in spherical aberration was expected and indeed is easily seen, but not detracting from the overall rendition to any significant degree. Shooting hand-held at 1/80 sec however did indicate slight blurring by camera movement not surprisingly as the parts were held together by hand as well :D

The inherently high optical quality of the 50/1.8S does survive sufficiently in this test to make this lens a future candidate for close-ups.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 12, 2019, 12:27:07
 :o
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 12, 2019, 12:28:52
This is a Z6/7 phenomenon that occurs with pulsed lights, like LED, is it not?
Apparently, museums are switching to LEDs.
   I don´t know what kind but I think it was some incandescent as for the temperature of the light. Pulsing was present even on the EVF
 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Roland Vink on March 12, 2019, 20:51:52
This is a Z6/7 phenomenon that occurs with pulsed lights, like LED, is it not?
Apparently, museums are switching to LEDs.
The bands look like they were generated in-camera, since the bands go though the entire frame - through shadows and across the floor and walls. If there was pulsed lighting you would expect the pulses not to show through shadows and they would be at different angles on the floor and walls.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 12, 2019, 20:54:29
Paco, is your camera set up for proper flickering protection (@50Hz) ?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 12, 2019, 22:37:17
Paco, is your camera set up for proper flickering protection (@50Hz) ?
The bands look like they were generated in-camera, since the bands go though the entire frame - through shadows and across the floor and walls. If there was pulsed lighting you would expect the pulses not to show through shadows and they would be at different angles on the floor and walls.

  Flickr reduction shooting is set to "on" on the Photo Shooting Menu, I´m not sure if you mean something else.
   I have another example. Took just two as the results were pretty much the same. Shooting data:
   previous image: 105mm, f4, iso 800, 1/200th
   here: 105mm, f2, iso 100, 1/160th


   Only the shutter mode was changed to get the banding, that´s why I assumed the all electronic shutter reading implementation was the cause .
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 12, 2019, 22:39:07
Going there to shoot again is possible as it is not far from my home and I have free access.  Maybe try with different shutter speeds?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 12, 2019, 22:44:50
You should try getting a longer shutter speed. Preferably not longer than 1/50sec. My hunch is that the banding is due to the light source.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 12, 2019, 23:04:09
You should try getting a longer shutter speed. Preferably not longer than 1/50sec. My hunch is that the banding is due to the light source.

Me too -in combination with silent shutter, that is- I´ll try with your suggested speed
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 13, 2019, 02:16:32
The bands look like they were generated in-camera, since the bands go though the entire frame - through shadows and across the floor and walls. If there was pulsed lighting you would expect the pulses not to show through shadows and they would be at different angles on the floor and walls.

Roland, a couple things to consider which make your argument weaker.

General illumination affects shadows too as some light is always bouncing around.

The sensor readout progresses horizontally across the frame so in effect the sensor gets exposed to brighter and darker conditions as it scans down. This would produce horizontal banding. It is not shadows which would be cast on different planes so would not be at different angles on floor and wall. The effect is caused when the light pulses several times during the sensor readout. Very similar to not having flash synchronization.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Øivind Tøien on March 13, 2019, 04:16:30

I thought banding in flickering light was a pretty well established byproduct of the electronic shutter when using silent mode (that both opens and closes the shutter). The electronic shutter does not open over the whole frame at a time,  but (horizontal) line by line. We have not gotten to the stage of instantaneous global shutters in these bodies - still too costly.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 13, 2019, 05:12:51
I thought banding in flickering light was a pretty well established byproduct of the electronic shutter when using silent mode (that both opens and closes the shutter). The electronic shutter does not open over the whole frame at a time,  but (horizontal) line by line. We have not gotten to the stage of instantaneous global shutters in these bodies - still too costly.

Yes, even Nikon warns of this.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 13, 2019, 08:55:14
Birna: I plead for more freelensing shots by you!!!!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 13, 2019, 08:58:46
On another note, this is an example of the proverbial banding with silent shutter. All else equal, at 1/200th of a second, first shot with efc and second one with silent shutter. Even on the viewfinder the effect was present.

it is the same with the D850.

difficult to reproduce though. Sometimes I get the jalousie effect, sometimes not. Even in the same room with the same light the effect can be present in some shots of a session and in some not. To be on the safe side use mechanical shutter, which is not nice where silence is mandantory
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 14, 2019, 13:37:21
I went back to the museum yesterday to document the banding effect at different shutter speeds. I kept the iso at 1600 when possible adjusting the f number to compensate and only in the last two increasing the iso to go all the way up -not linear, I think, but close-
   I took the 1/50th speed reference given by Birna as starting point. Going slower didn´t make much difference so I stopped at 1/13th. Going in the other direction probed interesting so I went  all the way to 1/6400th of a second. I think the reference of "like a bad synchronized high speed flash" is accurate.
From 1/100th the banding is subtle but cleary there and gets worse fast.
I think it shows the approach by Nikon to achieve high speed shutters with slower read-out.
  I also added a picture of the lights  and a mixed lighting situation.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 14, 2019, 16:46:25
Thanks Paco for taking time to redo this exercise.

I usually don't shoot in museums, but see a very similar phenomenon when shooting falling snow lit by street lamps.

Keep shutter speed preferably slower than a full cycle (50Hz in Europe) and you'll be fine -- no banding.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 14, 2019, 17:36:10
My pleasure.
I don't shoot in museums normaly but theater lights are changing to led more and more and that's my concern. Learning to deal with it may be crucial soon. Led color being the second biggest potencial issue.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on March 14, 2019, 17:37:44
My pleasure.
I don't shoot in museums normaly but theater lights are changing to led more and more and that's my concern. Learning to deal with it may be crucial in soon. Led color being the second biggest potencial issue.

Even shooting video, LED color lights can cause issues.   I struggle with this every Sunday.  I think right now my hurdle to overcome is the equipment.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JJChan on March 15, 2019, 02:55:16
Question for Birna:

How do AI-s lenses like Noct/105 2.5/28 2.8 do with the Z7 vs Z6? I'm currently undecided as to which Z to purchase and am wary that one may be more forgiving with old lenses than the other.
On saying that, old lenses work well enough for me on D850 so the question may be academic

TIA
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on March 15, 2019, 03:09:25
My pleasure.
I don't shoot in museums normaly but theater lights are changing to led more and more and that's my concern. Learning to deal with it may be crucial soon. Led color being the second biggest potencial issue.
Paco, yes, all of the venues I shoot in are modernizing.  Tungsten is gone but several conflicting types of energy saving lights and some venues have mixtures due to funds.  Means I really need to check each venue before going to shoot and check which lights will be on for the shoot.   Fortunately one venue where we shoot a Charity concert twice a year is a very old building and they will do it all at once at some point (they will re-wire the concert hall completely.
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 15, 2019, 05:01:04
Question for Birna:

How do AI-s lenses like Noct/105 2.5/28 2.8 do with the Z7 vs Z6? I'm currently undecided as to which Z to purchase and am wary that one may be more forgiving with old lenses than the other.
On saying that, old lenses work well enough for me on D850 so the question may be academic

TIA

I only have used the Z6 and don’t have. Nice, but all my old AI lenses perform well. I get tired of saying this, but zooming focus on the EVF and having the lenses stabilized with IBIS makes using them easier than ever. I can only imagine that the Z7 will perform well too.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 15, 2019, 06:06:04
I can only repeat what Jack already stated. The 'classic' Nikkors continue to do their service on the new camera range. On the Z7 zoom lenses such as the 35-200/3.5-4.5 begin to show a mild decline in ultimate quality compared to the best Nikkors, but I would be hard pressed to claim they *cannot* be used. Z6 is more forgiving and is the camera most used by me.

The only caveat is that slow wide-angle lenses in poor light sometimes can be tricky to focus with the EVF. Those are lenses such as 15/5.6 etc. which needed a dedicated screen (R-type in case of the 15) on an SLR anyway, so nothing really new here.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JJChan on March 15, 2019, 08:51:26
Thanks Jack and Birna
There's a massive sale on here in Perth and Z6s (sold out) and Z7s are discounted about 25%. In addition, purchase of an S lens adds an additional 10% off so my resistance to buying more gear has finally gone.
I was hoping to use the Leica as a mirrorless with attached EVF but it is not really usable and the sensor is not as pliable as the Nikon ones.

JJ
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: richardHaw on March 16, 2019, 05:44:15
True Story:

I was supposed to go out and buy the Nikon Z6...the mailman arrived and delivered a battered-but working Nikon FM3a.  :o :o :o

I thought to myself...do I really need the best and the latest when all I take are pictures of Japanese aunties and drunk salarymen.  ::)

BOOM, instant satori (Buddhist "realization moment"). what I really want is a Nikon Df2  ::)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Fons Baerken on March 16, 2019, 08:49:57
True Story:

I was supposed to go out and buy the Nikon Z6...the mailman arrived and delivered a battered-but working Nikon FM3a.  :o :o :o

I thought to myself...do I really need the best and the latest when all I take are pictures of Japanese aunties and drunk salarymen.  ::)

BOOM, instant satori (Buddhist "realization moment"). what I really want is a Nikon Df2  ::)


 ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on March 16, 2019, 10:10:24
True Story:

I was supposed to go out and buy the Nikon Z6...the mailman arrived and delivered a battered-but working Nikon FM3a.  :o :o :o

I thought to myself...do I really need the best and the latest when all I take are pictures of Japanese aunties and drunk salarymen.  ::)

BOOM, instant satori (Buddhist "realization moment"). what I really want is a Nikon Df2  ::)

That's exactly why I'm still using the "old" Df... ;)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 16, 2019, 12:35:58
Often one hears the Z files being 'pliable' in post processing. I would rather say 'malleable' as there is an amazing tolerance to grossly wrong exposure.

A case in point, from a recent sequence with the 100mm f/1.6 XR-Heligon on my Z6. The camera was in 'M' mode and the first shot came out so overexposed the preview was nearly all pure white. I had forgot about ISO being set to 3200 and thus maxed out shutter speed at 1/8000 sec. Reducing ISO to 250 and shutter speed to 1/200 sec got the exposure all right.

Run through Photo Ninja later, both NEFs produced quite similar output (depth-of-field is paper-thin with the lens at close range, so focus is not identical as I used a hand-held camera).

The first frame here is at least 5 stops off exposure-wise. Still most of the details are visible, except for some loss of extreme highlights.


Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: richardHaw on March 16, 2019, 12:40:24
That's exactly why I'm still using the "old" Df... ;)

the wife said: "what are you going to do with all the cameras that you have? isn't what you enough for you?"  :o :o :o end of discussion.

now, if only they came out with a better adapter that can at least allow me to shoot wide-open with Ai-S lenses and stop it down before exposure then that would override my fear for my wife  ::)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: richardHaw on March 16, 2019, 12:40:59
Often one hears the Z files being 'pliable' in post processing. I would rather say 'malleable' as there is an amazing tolerance to grossly wrong exposure.

A case in point, from a recent sequence with the 100mm f/1.6 XR-Heligon on my Z6. The camera was in 'M' mode and the first shot came out so overexposed the preview was nearly all pure white. I had forgot about ISO being set to 3200 and thus maxed out shutter speed at 1/8000 sec. Reducing ISO to 250 and shutter speed to 1/200 sec got the exposure all right.

Run through Photo Ninja later, both NEFs produced quite similar output (depth-of-field is paper-thin with the lens at close range, so focus is not identical as I used a hand-held camera).

The first frame here is at least 5 stops off exposure-wise. Still most of the details are visible, except for some loss of extreme highlights.

nice greens  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 16, 2019, 12:45:07
Put a pie
the wife said: "what are you going to do with all the cameras that you have? isn't what you enough for you?"  :o :o :o end of discussion.

all my wives are deceased.

Quote
now, if only they came out with a better adapter that can at least allow me to shoot wide-open with Ai-S lenses and stop it down before exposure then that would override my fear for my wife  ::)

Place a broken-off tooth-pick into the FTZ (to jam the min.aperture sensor) and you can do exactly that. For a more permanent solution, use epoxy glue.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 16, 2019, 12:47:55


Place a broken-off tooth-pick into the FTZ (to jam the min.aperture sensor) and you can do exactly that. For a more permanent solution, use epoxy glue.

Photo please
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 16, 2019, 12:55:19
Already posted in this thread ...

But can be repeated :D

(http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8075.0;attach=36696;image)

An alternative would be to forego the FTZ entirely and use a cheaper third-party adapter without transfer of electronic information. Since nearly all my manual lenses are CPU-modified by now, I prefer the toothpick approach ....
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: richardHaw on March 17, 2019, 13:16:52
i havent been following the thread since i am too busy lately but i think i have seen this mentioned somewhere ::)

this afternoon, i was convincing my wife WHY i needed the Z6...

I took the Nikon FM3a that I just overhauled last night and the Nikkor 45/2.8P with me to shoot st patricks day.

while at the shop, i tried the P with the FTZ and like what Birna or whoever mentioned, it did have some communication with the body so turning the aperture dial on the Z6 controls the iris ONLY up until f/5.6 and then it stops-down properly as i make an exposure. I did have to set my lens to f/22 though...

Now, i don't know why Nikon didn't just do this for ALL F-mount manual lenses and add a disclaimer that exposure won't be accurate for pre-AiS lenses because the iris isnt linear. it would have added more functionality to the Z6  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 17, 2019, 13:20:52
The presence of a non-linear aperture mechanism is less problematic on the Z cameras.

The f/5.6 setting can be entirely avoided with a third-party adapter. Or you get full aperture control from f/5.6 to the max.aperture of your lens by the tooth-pick trick.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JohnBrew on March 19, 2019, 22:03:59
Can anyone confirm that the Z6 & 7 have a Bulb mode and Long Exposure NR capable of being turned off? Reason I ask is it is not mentioned in the specs as it is for the DSLR's and I've already returned my demo  :-[
Thanks,
John
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on March 19, 2019, 22:18:35
Can anyone confirm that the Z6 & 7 have a Bulb mode and Long Exposure NR capable of being turned off? Reason I ask is it is not mentioned in the specs as it is for the DSLR's and I've already returned my demo  :-[
Thanks,
John

The bulb mode is accessed by selectinh «M» mode and turning the command wheel beyond 30 sec. LE NR can be turned off.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 19, 2019, 22:21:21
30", bulb, time, x200 is the sequence of options at the end in manual mode.
Long exposure can be on and off. Photo shooting menu between Active D-lighting and High ISO NR
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 19, 2019, 22:59:31
One can also increase ISO and shoot effortlessly in pretty dark situations.

Rodenstock 100mm f/1.6 XR-Heligon, 32000 ISO, Z6, hand-held at 1/250(!) sec. The winter night is open to explore with the Z range.

Timber is Scots Pine, by the way. Freshly cut logs smell divinely.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JohnBrew on March 21, 2019, 21:30:29
The bulb mode is accessed by selectinh «M» mode and turning the command wheel beyond 30 sec. LE NR can be turned off.
Thanks, just like always, eh? Don’t know why Ithought they might have changed it.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 21, 2019, 22:55:28
I'm now eagerly awaiting another Z6 that has been modified as "full spectrum" camera. Meaning it can do UV or IR as well. The perfect match for one of my UV-Nikkor lenses (I hope).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 24, 2019, 18:38:37
I was just reading this post on the Nikkor 55mm f/1.2 and noticed how it gives some insight into the reasons behind the much reduced flange distance of the Z cameras.

https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0049/index.htm (https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0049/index.htm)

Section I is most informative and comes to a close with a discussion of how the Increased flange distance of the SLR made large diameter lens design more difficult.

But lens designers possessed strong desire to commercialize again the f/1.4 and f/1.1-1.2 lenses they had successfully produced for range-finder cameras. Every designer apparently thought it was problematical that the future camera system that made its debut with so much fanfare was actually inferior to the existing system.

Also an interesting discussion of why the 50mm”normal” lens is actually 51.6mm.

I’d read this article ilong sfo but it becomes interesting again in the new context.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: chambeshi on March 30, 2019, 09:49:39
I was just reading this post on the Nikkor 55mm f/1.2 and noticed how it gives some insight into the reasons behind the much reduced flange distance of the Z cameras.

https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0049/index.htm (https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0049/index.htm)

Section I is most informative and comes to a close with a discussion of how the Increased flange distance of the SLR made large diameter lens design more difficult.

But lens designers possessed strong desire to commercialize again the f/1.4 and f/1.1-1.2 lenses they had successfully produced for range-finder cameras. Every designer apparently thought it was problematical that the future camera system that made its debut with so much fanfare was actually inferior to the existing system.

Also an interesting discussion of why the 50mm”normal” lens is actually 51.6mm.

I’d read this article ilong sfo but it becomes interesting again in the new context.

Thanks for pointing this out. Most informative, and new relevance 6+ decades on....

I posted this link in Lens Talk wrt the new 14-30 f4S. However, his interview by Imaging Resource's David Etchells has wider relevance to the ILC industry - let alone the Z-Mount.

Enjoy the nuggets of information given by Akihiko Obama and other Nikon executives
https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2019/03/29/mount-wars-z-mount-really-does-help-lens-design-and-af-nikon-tech-interview (https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2019/03/29/mount-wars-z-mount-really-does-help-lens-design-and-af-nikon-tech-interview)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 30, 2019, 15:37:24
Also an interesting discussion of why the 50mm”normal” lens is actually 51.6mm.

The angle of view of AF-S 50/1.8G and Z 50/1.8, namely the "latest" two standard lenses is 47 degree, as opposed to 46 degree of any older lenses like Ai-s 50mm f1.4 and f1.2, AF-D 50mm f1.4 and f1.8 and AF-S 50/1.4.  That may suggest that Nikon has set the actual focal length of their standard lenses to just 50mm.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on March 31, 2019, 10:05:41
The lack of eye AF...
Here's a quick test of the face detection performance (AF-C) with the Sigma 105/1.4 Art. To me the so-called lack of eye AF is perhaps not a big an issues as some want it to be. This model (read: the teenager in the house) would kill me if I didn't edit out a few spots here and there...so there you have it  ;D.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on March 31, 2019, 15:26:23
The lack of eye AF...
Here's a quick test of the face detection performance (AF-C) with the Sigma 105/1.4 Art. To me the so-called lack of eye AF is perhaps not a big an issues as some want it to be. This model (read: the teenager in the house) would kill me if I didn't edit out a few spots here and there...so there you have it  ;D.

Sten, these are nice portraits, except that she looks pi**ed...   ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 31, 2019, 15:48:49
Naaah, more like indifferent and impatient. Which is the normal mode for a teenager I guess.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on March 31, 2019, 19:14:35
Naaah, more like indifferent and impatient. Which is the normal mode for a teenager I guess.

Exactly, she's putting up with it, but she'd rather be doing something else.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 31, 2019, 21:27:32
The lack of eye AF...
Here's a quick test of the face detection performance (AF-C) with the Sigma 105/1.4 Art. To me the so-called lack of eye AF is perhaps not a big an issues as some want it to be. This model (read: the teenager in the house) would kill me if I didn't edit out a few spots here and there...so there you have it  ;D.

My cameradealer tells me about a soo to be expected firmware upgrade for the Z-Series that features "pupil"-detection to avoid focus getting stuck on the frame of glasses.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 31, 2019, 21:28:54
Naaah, more like indifferent and impatient. Which is the normal mode for a teenager I guess.

With three kids you should know, not gues ;-)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on March 31, 2019, 23:25:43
I have found the face-af to be pretty good in finding the eyes too with both longer lenses and wide angles. If the eye-ef will work better is of course welcome.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: ColinM on April 01, 2019, 23:02:35
she looks pi**ed...   ;D

I did a double-take when I read this comment originally.
I guess Akita meant “she looks annoyed, angry etc”

In English, when we use this expression it means the person is very obviously under the influence of alcohol (which as many parents will confirm, is entirely possible for a teenager....)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on April 01, 2019, 23:37:16
I did a double-take when I read this comment originally.
I guess Akita meant “she looks annoyed, angry etc”

In English, when we use this expression it means the person is very obviously under the influence of alcohol (which as many parents will confirm, is entirely possible for a teenager....)

You are right.  Does "English" mean British English?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Netr on April 02, 2019, 01:20:14
You are right.  Does "English" mean British English?

Yes, British English. Also Australian and New Zealand English.

In Australia and New Zealand, to mean “she looks annoyed, angry etc” we would say 'pissed off'
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on April 02, 2019, 02:25:00
Yes, British English. Also Australian and New Zealand English.

In Australia and New Zealand, to mean “she looks annoyed, angry etc” we would say 'pissed off'

Thank you, Netr.  I've also heard musicians from the U.S. using the expression quite often.  So, it would be common among the English-speaking folks?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: pluton on April 02, 2019, 04:42:20
In North American English, the complete expression is 'pissed off' [=angry, upset], but in use, it is frequently shortened---by North Americans--- to 'pissed'. Hence the confusion with the British English original.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on April 02, 2019, 05:15:33
In North American English, the complete expression is 'pissed off' [=angry, upset], but in use, it is frequently shortened---by North Americans--- to 'pissed'. Hence the confusion with the British English original.

I see.  Thank you for the explanation.  Indeed, I've heard both versions.

Colin, Netr and Keith, thank you, again, for the clarification.

Sorry for the deviation.  Let's go back to the original topic!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on April 02, 2019, 05:48:03
Akira, thank you for the unintended comic relief.  After a late night digging through my wife's filing system looking for a document the Airport immigration Officers said she needed to get back into India in three weeks time, I needed a chuckle  ;D .   I have those three weeks to decide on buying a Z6,   As an American living in London for 27 years I had a few brushes with the Languages  ;) .
I will post a question concerning Z6 once I have figured out the wording, still on my first cup of coffee .
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Erik Lund on April 02, 2019, 08:06:44
Sten, wonderful images! very nice texture and feeling.
She is a beautiful girl, her expression is what I would call, moody calm and lovely.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on April 02, 2019, 08:43:34
Akira, thank you for the unintended comic relief.  After a late night digging through my wife's filing system looking for a document the Airport immigration Officers said she needed to get back into India in three weeks time, I needed a chuckle  ;D .   I have those three weeks to decide on buying a Z6,   As an American living in London for 27 years I had a few brushes with the Languages  ;) .
I will post a question concerning Z6 once I have figured out the wording, still on my first cup of coffee .
Tom

Tom, you are welcome.  I re-realized that one should always be ready to respond to the unexpected learning opportunity.   :o ;D :o ;D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Anthony on April 02, 2019, 10:12:41
In North American English, the complete expression is 'pissed off' [=angry, upset],

That is the same in British English. 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JJChan on April 02, 2019, 10:33:45
I have those three weeks to decide on buying a Z6..
Tom

Tom
I got myself a Z(7) when a big sale came up in Australia. I found it much more intuitive to use than the Sony A7II and far more responsive. There is a lack of native Z mount glass at the moment but AFS and AIS work really well as have M mount and M42 lenses. In addition, I have always used CaptureNXD and so post processing was easy for me rather than struggling up the learning curve with CaptureOne/Lightroom which I just didn't have the time to learn properly. The colour profiles straight out were familiar, the controls were familiar, the menus - all just made it an easy transition. The battery life is also good compared to the Sony.

Although all camera systems work more than what I can really utilise, just simple usability has made the Z system the perfect mirrorless for me.

JJ
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on April 02, 2019, 12:50:06
Hi JJ, congrats , enjoy and post some images.   I will probably get the Z6 but would love for a big Sale to hit Goa  ;) .  The only thing I liked about the a7rii was the size of the sensor for cropping.  I have to work harder with 24/25 MP but the number of usable focus points helps.
Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JohnBrew on April 03, 2019, 15:09:56
Received email from Nikon this morning: Thank you for registering your Z7.
Interesting. It hasn’t arrived yet!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JJChan on April 03, 2019, 15:29:59
Some crop and mild lifting of shadow with C-NXD
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on April 03, 2019, 19:00:57
I have come to love shooting with silent shutter. It is so peaceful.
Most of the time it is great, but you need to be on the lookout for motion blur and banding due to light flicker.
Here is part of a shot from yesterday at 1/250th.
I hope that global shutter technology will progress so next gen cameras don't need to worry about this.
I recently saw a Canon industrial inspection demo which showed APS sensor with global shutter at 1/100th of a second.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: armando_m on April 03, 2019, 22:24:43
I have come to love shooting with silent shutter. It is so peaceful.
.
.
.
me too, one of my favorite things from the V1, and now also available on my x-t3
although sometimes I miss the feedback of feeling the mechanical shutter, particularly on the V1 which can sometimes take forever to wake up, focus and take the shot
easy to configure and switch on/off
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on April 04, 2019, 06:26:49
Jack, has to be the next big thing.   I only really use Silent shooting for events that require it and some Street/Documentary.   I still use the Df for many low light events.  Interesting, but looking back at images using Silent (mine and my wife's) , the Olympus bodies seem to have less problems than the Sony a7xx cameras.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on April 04, 2019, 14:40:30
I shoot this performance a month ago, February 28th. Very difficult venue with audience all around, very distracting background and even worse led light with horrible colors. Nice conditions  ;D 8) to try the Z6.

   In combination with the 70-200e everything works. Colors were easy recovered -white shirts helped a lot- Images are being delivered to client today.
   As already established here the strengths of the camera such as silent shutter, very malleable' :)  files, af accuracy and high iso performance made my day. Movement was on the low side for a dance-music-theater show.

   A token 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: armando_m on April 04, 2019, 16:42:30
.
.
.
 Movement was on the low side for a dance-music-theater show.
   A token
Low movement but they seem to be hot enough
Nice series Paco
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on April 04, 2019, 21:26:14
Thanks Armando. It was intense with some explosive moments.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on April 05, 2019, 07:03:03
Paco, nice.  I particularly like the guy in #5.  I always had problems with Sony a7ii and a7rii picking out  single face when AF was conflicted with higher contrast subjects close.  I thought the Z6/7 and 79-200 2.8 E a great combo but alas funding for Z6 will preclude upgrading my G mk II  :( .
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: John Geerts on April 05, 2019, 12:13:44
Impressive work, Paco.  You can see the emotions.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 05, 2019, 12:21:39
And no obvious banding either :D
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on April 05, 2019, 13:43:31
Thank you for your encouraging comments.

   About banding, that is my point. I can not find the information on the file on capture NxD metadata and I´m not sure after a month but most likely I was using silent full electronic shutter. Led lights, Z6, 70-200e @200mm and f2.8, 800 iso, 1/500. WB fixed at 4500k. Neutral picture mode.

   This is an image sooc
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 05, 2019, 14:52:38
pulsed light can lead to banding sometimes and sometimes not. I guess it has to do with the electronics driving the lamps.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 05, 2019, 15:02:57
... and the camera is blamed for being true to the character of the light ,,,,
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 05, 2019, 15:04:55
... and the camera is blamed for being true to the character of the light ,,,,

exactly
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 13, 2019, 13:02:35
My third Z camera, a Z6 modified to be "full spectrum", is on its way. It safely crossed the Atlantic in a minimum of time. However, for now it is stuck in Norwegian Customs and the upcoming Easter means there likely will be two weeks yet before they release it from their firm grip. After slapping a healthy amount of VAT on the shipment, of course.

Meanwhile, being grounded myself by an unfortunate car accident, I experimented with my current Z cameras to learn how effective they protect against any UV entering their sensors. Mounting the UV-Nikkor 105mmf/4.5 with the Baader U filter on either Z6 or Z7 does allow visual focusing even through that dense filter. Well, provided there is full daylight and finder illumination is increased from the zero setting. Still just enough to do manual focusing with the unmodified stock camera in UV.

I did some hand-held UV captures with the Z7 for fun, besides to learn how effective UV is suppressed by the stock sensor. Apparently UV is kept down at least 8 EV even when using the specialist UV-Nikkor lens, implying unwanted UV is very unlikely to be an issue for ordinary shooting.

Here is an example shot at f/4.5, ISO 25600 and 1/6 sec using the UV-Nikkor on my hand-held Z7. Not very exciting except for proving UV can be pushed through almost any optical system yet there is no guarantee of any final image quality.

Oh well. Back to waiting for the Customs to release my UV/IR Z6.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on April 13, 2019, 13:29:16

Meanwhile, being grounded myself by an unfortunate car accident, I experimented with my current Z cameras to learn how effective they protect against any UV entering their sensors. Mounting the UV-Nikkor 105mmf/4.5 with the Baader U filter on either Z6 or Z7 does allow visual focusing even through that dense filter. Well, provided there is full daylight and finder illumination is increased from the zero setting. Still just enough to do manual focusing with the unmodified stock camera in UV.

Oh well. Back to waiting for the Customs to release my UV/IR Z6.

Birna I hope you will up and fit again soon. There is only a month to our trip to Scotland.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on April 13, 2019, 13:31:42
My third Z camera, a Z6 modified to be "full spectrum", is on its way. It safely crossed the Atlantic in a minimum of time. However, for now it is stuck in Norwegian Customs and the upcoming Easter means there likely will be two weeks yet before they release it from their firm grip. After slapping a healthy amount of VAT on the shipment, of course.

Birna, hope your physical  damage is only recoverable without any aftermath.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 13, 2019, 13:32:15
Problem is my car not me this time :( As I live in the sticks so to speak, a car is necessary to be able to move around.

I most certainly will attend the NG Scotland meet-up 2019.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on April 13, 2019, 13:34:27
Problem is my car not me this time :( As I live in the sticks so to speak, a car is necessary to be able to move around.

I most certainly will attend the NG Scotland meet-up 2019.
Good to hear, that it is only mechanical problems
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on April 13, 2019, 13:36:55
Indeed.  I would say, it's a relief.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 13, 2019, 13:51:59
better car broken than Birna broken!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Wannabebetter on April 13, 2019, 14:33:28
better car broken than Birna broken!

My sentiments exactly! Besides which, I'm not nearly through, could I ever be, mining her brain for insightful lens evaluations and gear reviews in general. Why, the world would be populated by idiots wearing Nikons [sic] around their necks like so much expensive jewelry purchased to impress even more idiots. (Am I projecting -- too much? :-[) I'd personally much rather be a few technological generations behind the curve then suffer henceforth going into the future, new toys at my beckoning, with no Birna to crunch the numbers and still give a subjective take just to remind us it ain't all rocket science but art, too. Sometimes, both!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: chambeshi on April 16, 2019, 10:48:08
fyi As some of us are well aware, and appreciate for landscapes - the Z7 especially

https://photographylife.com/landscapes/nikon-z-cameras-for-landscape-photography
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Olivier on April 16, 2019, 11:35:10
So Birna, is the plan to get another red Peugeot?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 16, 2019, 16:20:31
There is no imminent plan of getting a new car -- however the current red Peugeout only has 3 out of 4 wheels intact and the upcoming Easter prevents me getting a replacement :(
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 16, 2019, 17:17:45
I got my third Z camera, this time a Z6 modified by LifePixel to become "full spectrum". Unfortunately, there have been problems with banding noise for UV capture and the issue is not fully understood or solved yet. Have a look over at our sister site Ultravioletphotography to learn the latest news http://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/index.php/topic/3228-nikon-z6z7-as-a-uvir-conversion-the-bad-news.

During the last 6 months with Z7 and Z6 I have not encountered any banding noise (except for what is caused by a flickering light which one really can't blame the camera for faithfully reproducing).

I'm now embarking on various  multiband- and IR photography with the converted Z6 to understand its behaviour better.

(http://ultravioletphotography.com/content/uploads/monthly_04_2019/post-2-0-55377500-1555424902.jpg)

IR with UV-Nikkor and the B+W 093 filter (~87C) on the modified Z6.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 16, 2019, 17:23:10
Meanwhile, a nifty accessory arrived just in time for spring flower exploration: the new Z extension tube made by Fotodiox. This 15mm ring has pass-through contacts so allows any native Z-mount lens to operate will all functionality intact. On the 35/1.8 S-Line Nikkor I got nearly 1:1 magnification, but the working distance at the near end is extremely short. One has to remove the sunshade from the lens. The Fotodiox tube suits the 50/1.8 S-Line better to yield around 1:3 magnification. Image quality with either lens in combination with the Fotodiox extension is surprisingly good.

Autofocus works with the extension, but is significantly slowed down in the near range.

The extension comes in a luxury, very posh wooden box, so one gets added bonus for the pretty stiff price of this item.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on April 16, 2019, 17:50:53
Meanwhile, a nifty accessory arrived just in time for spring flower exploration: the new Z extension tube made by Fotodiox. This 15mm ring has pass-through contacts so allows any native Z-mount lens to operate will all functionality intact. On the 35/1.8 S-Line Nikkor I got nearly 1:1 magnification, but the working distance at the near end is extremely short. One has to remove the sunshade from the lens. The Fotodiox tube suits the 50/1.8 S-Line better to yield around 1:3 magnification. Image quality with either lens in combination with the Fotodiox extension is surprisingly good.

Autofocus works with the extension, but is significantly slowed down in the near range.

The extension comes in a luxury, very posh wooden box, so one gets added bonus for the pretty stiff price of this item.

Ditto. My copy arrived as well. Nice package, not that I will keep it in that. LOL.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on April 16, 2019, 20:59:52
Birna, maybe something wrong with the conversion process? Or faulty Z before the conversion that carry it on to the full spectrum? Just two more options.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 16, 2019, 21:03:16
Various RAW converters by and large produce the same output. The banding is everywhere also in the brighter areas of the scene.

We are contacting LifePixel for advice and a possible refund. The Z cameras of the current generation appear not to be well suited for UV/IR work.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Netr on April 17, 2019, 05:13:13
Meanwhile, a nifty accessory arrived just in time for spring flower exploration: the new Z extension tube made by Fotodiox. This 15mm ring has pass-through contacts so allows any native Z-mount lens to operate will all functionality intact. On the 35/1.8 S-Line Nikkor I got nearly 1:1 magnification, but the working distance at the near end is extremely short. One has to remove the sunshade from the lens. The Fotodiox tube suits the 50/1.8 S-Line better to yield around 1:3 magnification. Image quality with either lens in combination with the Fotodiox extension is surprisingly good.

Autofocus works with the extension, but is significantly slowed down in the near range.

The extension comes in a luxury, very posh wooden box, so one gets added bonus for the pretty stiff price of this item.

Also Ditto (to New Zealand). Very well machined bamboo box.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on April 20, 2019, 12:34:11
FWIW, this is an impressing video of Z6 shooting volcanoes in Guatemala.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=kGh3cCmy5zg
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on April 20, 2019, 16:59:41
Impressive, thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 20, 2019, 21:48:20
My long awaited "full spectrum" Z6 turned out to be a mixed blessing. For UV shooting, pronounced image banding seems unavoidable at lower ISO values. There is an ongoing - and long - thread on our sister site Ultravioletphotography.com dealing with this problem: http://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/index.php/topic/3228-nikon-z6z7-as-a-uvir-conversion-the-bad-news. No need to repeat here.

Apparently IR does better and there is hardly any banding although internal flare continues to be an issue.

This is from today's shooting, using AFS 28-300 Nikkor and the B+W 092 filter (~Wratten 89B). ISO 800.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on April 20, 2019, 23:16:48
Impressive, thanks for the link.

You are welcome, Paco.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 21, 2019, 17:13:22
How long was Eve in Paradise? Shot IR with the 100mm f/1.6 Rodenstock today and lowered ISO to 200 as the lens lets a lot of light through ... B+W 093 filter (~Wratten 87C).

Heavy banding was immediately evident. Even stronger in presence for a follow-up shot at Low1 (~50ISO).

100% crop to show strong banding with the Z6 modified by LifePixel. The banding is seen everywhere not just in shadows.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on April 21, 2019, 17:35:04
How long was Eve in Paradise? Shot IR with the 100mm f/1.6 Rodenstock today and lowered ISO to 200 as the lens lets a lot of light through ... B+W 093 filter (~Wratten 87C).

Heavy banding was immediately evident. Even stronger in presence for a follow-up shot at Low1 (~50ISO).

100% crop to show strong banding with the Z6 modified by LifePixel. The banding is seen everywhere not just in shadows.

So. in light of this banding with the modified Z6, what are your alternatives and intentions?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 21, 2019, 18:23:50
Alternatives none, intention to return it for a refund.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on April 21, 2019, 18:38:00
Alternatives none, intention to return it for a refund.

I suspected that there wasn't much you could do with that banding issue but I didn't know that returning it was an alternative, since it has been modified.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 21, 2019, 18:39:58
The camera was bought new via Life Pixel and modified by them, before sending it to me.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on April 21, 2019, 23:38:19
Sorry to hear that. I was very interested in your findings. There is still hope as may be a faulty camera or conversion. Will see.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on April 21, 2019, 23:43:17
To continue praising the Z6 using older manual lenses:

   I went home with the Z6, 105 2.5 (with CPU) and 35mm 1.4. I´m very happy with the results but will show here some challenging scenarios at night. 105@ f2.8 and 35mm @ 1.4 ISO 3200 was needed and the magnification on viewfinder continue to work with no problems. I¨m well know for my lack of skills for manual focusing...

 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on April 26, 2019, 03:57:52
Youth Soccer and the Z6 + FTZ + TAmron 70-200/2.8 G2
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on April 26, 2019, 13:56:24
I like these images Andrew. 

The rising American interest in soccer amongst its youth and womens teams augers well for the sport and the US as an emerging soccer force - good stuff.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on April 26, 2019, 13:59:10
The Z system seems ok for sports.
Nice pictures.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Airy on April 27, 2019, 20:54:39
I could test a Z7 for about 3/4h today. The lens was a Summicron-R 50/2 (adapted to F-mount), so I had to work in stopped-down mode.

EVF is comfortable to the eye. It gets a bit muddy when stopping down to f/8 in a dark place - well, that's hardly surprizing. When using focus peaking, manual focus is relatively easy, but the Df is at least as good in that department. Using magnification seems indispensible to get pinpoint focus accuracy. Using the ill-placed (+) and (-) buttons for that purpose is a pain in the neck, though. I wish there were a loupe function at half-pressed shutter release, but could not find it.

The stabilizer works reliably down to 1/8s. Consistently getting sharp shots at 1/4s proved more difficult; for that purpose, I activated the silent mode, electronic 1st curtain, and 0.2s shutter delay, and all was fine. Stabilization is very good, but not overwhelmingly so: I could get the same result with the Tamron 45/1.8 VC on the Df, and could go down to 1/2s with the Olympus E-MD OM-1. Still, it is a useful feature. Combining stabilizer and magnifier indeed allows precise manual focussing, and that's essential.

Needless to say, image quality is outstanding. Lots of pixels for sure, but darn good pixels. Cropping is certainly an option with that sensor.

Handling is OK. Probably a bit better than the Df (rudimentary grip!), but still not the best fit for my hand. Menus are similar to Df, I'd say: so-so. Customization is possible, and needed.

Bottom line : I think I'll resist the NAS. But that's because the Df is so well-designed. I'll probably wait for the next iteration, hopefully with better battery life and a half-pressed-shutter-release-loupe-mode. If you do not have a Df, beware...

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Airy on April 27, 2019, 21:07:36
For reference, here's a 100% crop of a picture taken, handheld, at 1/4s. Remember, there are 45 million pixels or so.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 27, 2019, 21:12:17
The + and - buttons on the rear are indeed awkward to use and most suited for working with a tripod-mounted camera. The usual work-around is putting the zoom function to the Fn1,2 buttons on the front as they are easily engaged when you look into the finder. They also have the advantage of being on/off meaning first push to zoom in, next push to zoom out. Quite practical.  I use 100% and 200% zoom factors on my cameras.

In poor light and in particular in conjunction with wide-angle lenses of the less than very bright variety, getting pin-point focusing accuracy with a mirrorless camera is not easy. The enlarged finder image tends to break up and having focus peaking engaged only adds colour to the grain noise. Under such situations using my Df with its split-image screen is far superior.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Airy on April 27, 2019, 21:20:46
We both own at least one Df, but you have a Z7 and I don't. Lucky you. That sensor is really, really good.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 27, 2019, 22:53:56
We both own at least one Df, but you have a Z7 and I don't. Lucky you. That sensor is really, really good.

I also have 2*Z6, of which one is modified and not to my liking. The stock Z6 is the Z camera most used by me. Waiting for delivery of the 14-30 Z which should be a nice combination with either Z6 or Z7.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Airy on April 28, 2019, 07:30:12
Why does your Z6 see most usage?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 28, 2019, 09:46:15
Why does your Z6 see most usage?

I purchased the Z7 mainly for close-up and photomacrographic work, and the season for those fields is still in its infancy.  No need for 45MPix otherwise. Anchored to its Stackshot rail, the Z7 now sits patiently waiting for tasks. It will see extensive work later this year, though.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Anthony on April 28, 2019, 11:00:16
Interesting to read all these comments about the Z cameras.

What are the overall views about the Zs as compared with their DSLR near equivalents?  Which do people prefer, and why?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on April 28, 2019, 11:03:57
So is the Z6 a worthy successor to the venerable Df, or is the Df still safe in its special ecosphere?

I pose this question with general handling in mind, image quality, and in respect of the pros and cons of how these two cameras can utilise MF lenses (with and without metering CPUs).

TIA to those with both Df and Z6/7 experiences.

Edit:  Anthony's question and mine have overlapped in timing and have some commonalities - maybe both could be answered together?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Airy on April 28, 2019, 11:18:44
I got such accustomed to the Df, since 2014, that any response may be biased by my own inertia. It is not about hostility to change or aversion against EVFs - I have started using Olympus cameras some years ago and found them a delight; it's just that m43 sensors imply a bit more "chemistry" and the results are not as rich as a full-frame RAW file.

Access to ISO and, above all, exposure compensation is much easier on Z6/7; to me, the latter is a big plus. I was never enchanted by the handling of exposure compensation on Df.

Manual focus is, I'd say, a draw - Z7 can achieve critical focus with more ease than the Df (zooming in the EVF is better than zooming on the rear screen in live view mode), but under less critical circumstances, the Df seems a bit easier to focus.

I have the impression that, for a Df owner, there is no compelling reason to switch to Z6/7, except you'd badly need the extra pixels or the extra dynamic range. Another reason could be, the 50/1.8 Z and its intrinsic qualities - that lens has no real F-mount equivalent.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: chambeshi on April 28, 2019, 11:50:26
The Z focus-peaking does much - in fact far better with MF lenses. I prefer the Z control layout too but probably this is a bias from enjoying the haptics of the D500 and now the D850. The loss of Image-protect button is a BIG -ve, and quite a few users find these MILCs are short of a Fn button.

Although the D4 sensor in the Df is legendary, posted images and tests reveal the Z6 has the edge over the Df in lowlight: at least as far as less noise. The IQ out of the Z7 is exquisite, especially at an ISO < 1600. I rate the Z7 be best camera for landscape photography. The silent shutter of the Z MILCs is a boon for many of my sensitive wildlife subjects.

Another big negative is the FTZ does not write the aperture setting into exif. There is no AI ring. Some users may try and diminish this gap in backward compatibility. But I find it irritating, especially in an adapter that costs more than the 50 f1.8AFD, which BTW does not AF on a Z MILC. There is no support of S'driver AF either. However, although the cpu in a MF lens (AIP also) registers all the exif data.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Kenneth Rich on April 28, 2019, 17:36:51
A Pink Lady is not a Granny Smith.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on April 29, 2019, 09:04:52
Airy, interesting  :) , I have pretty much decided that if I can get the funds together, without selling the Df, I will get the Z6.  IBIS is not a huge deal since I shoot mostly people so not low shutter speeds.  :) .  I've been using both EVF and OVF for some years now.  For travel I will probably continue to use my collection of Leica M mount lenses (small size and weight) .  Have used Sony a7xx for the past few years, any quirks with the Z6 should not be a problem  ;)
Thanks for posting
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JJChan on April 29, 2019, 14:07:43
Tom
I’ve now got a Z7 and for me it handles far better than the A7II. The EVF is really quite good - almost invisible so much so that I often do not notice that it is not optical. In addition, it really goes not get in the way of shooting unlike the Sony where I seemed to always notice a lag and I struggled with all the buttons that I didn’t spend enough time adjusting to. The battery life is massive compared to my Sony.

The files are VERY malleable - you will especially appreciate the skin tones in black and white that you do so well. What you may also find is that IBIS does actually make a big deal. 100% view (I use this to gauge focusing accuracy) and the viewfinder jumps all over the place without. And I have pretty steady hands too...

However, when I pick up the Df it feels great and the mechanical shutter is addictive. I’ve recently started using a rangefinder and am still struggling with it. Getting back to my Df is beautiful and comfortable. The Z7/6 and DSLR are complimentary and go well together. I’m glad I haven’t sold the SLRs yet.
JJ

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on April 29, 2019, 14:30:47
Thanks JJ, I really do not need another camera  ;) , I can get images I like with the Sony bodies but, for me, shooting has to be a pleasure/fun.  I still feel like I am continuously fighting with the a7rii (not so much with a7iii) .  At the moment the D500 handles most Wildlife (birds) and Sport and the Df for other action event where the ISO is going to climb.  My Pen F is just a lot of fun to use for Street/Documentary.
So I would like the Z6 just to see if it is more enjoyable to use.  If so, then my wife will get the a7iii which she already uses and my son will continue to use the a7rii for his course (which involves Vids) .  His EM1 is not strong on Vids.
Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JohnBrew on April 29, 2019, 23:29:51
I was happy to trade in my Df on a Z7. Several factors were at work when I made the decision. I liked the Df just fine. I hated the grips. Which I found a tad contrary as I much prefer my Leica M’s, which have no grips at all!, for the same type of shooting. But you hold them entirely differently so I suppose it was an ergonomic thing.
I rented a Z7 first before buying. As I have aged the weight thing has become a bit of an obsession. While there is a lot to like with the Z7 - the EVF is life changing as is the ability to zoom in with the viewfinder - the IBIS made it possible to get rid of my heavy tripod and ball head. Now I can do landscape photography without having a long tripod and using the tiltable LCD on a shorter tripod.
So for me it has been a positive experience. Now if I can only find someone to take my D810 off my hands!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on April 30, 2019, 19:34:32
Some general thoughts from Df + Z6 user.

Moving zoom function to F1 and F2 buttons is essential. I use 200% and 50% and keep 100% on the Ok button. When I want really fine focus, 200% is more useful than 100%, when I have a moving target and just need a quick confirmation of focus 50% is more useful than 100%. I guess you can tell I never use 100%.

Poor Df is sitting on a shelf everyday while I take the Z6 with me everywhere. It took a month or so to convert me, but now I just don't see a reason to go back. Some situations I might still use Df - long trip without power would be one as Df battery lasts forever.

Here are the features of Z I appreciate most:
Zoomable finder. - Df optical finder looks better in many situations, but Z6 is functionally better for me.
Tilting rear screen - great for low/high angle shots which I'm quite fond of. Switching between viewers was painful at the beginning, but have gotten very used to it.
Histogram in EVF - better idea of what is being captured than the over-under mode of Df. Not perfect, but better.
IBIS - It really works and adds a stop or two even with manual non-VR lenses.
Video - Not present in Df

Some pain points remaining:
FTZ adapter works fine, but it is one more piece of gear.
No AI/AI-S aperture follower, so no aperture info available in viewfinder/EXIF
Battery life is not as long as the Df which lasts forever.

Both are wonderful, but the Z6 is working better for me right now.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on April 30, 2019, 22:42:36
One of the main differences between the Z cameras and DSLR's is startup time; nearly instantaneous for a Nikon DSLR but it takes a while for a Z. Also, in bright light it takes the EVF some time to brighten up. It takes time getting used to this and one has to anticipate for it.

In magnified mode the Z7 EVF has a rather slow frame rate, the Sony A7rIII competition is doing much much much better with respect to this.

Nikon really has to consider to get rid of the (rotational) speed-dependent manual focus with the focus-by-wire Z lenses; IMHO it makes very precise manual focussing too difficult. Luckily I don't need MF that often with these type of lenses.


The ILC market is not doing well at all. It is interesting to see how prices of both Z6 and Z7 have dropped during the last weeks.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 30, 2019, 23:16:25
Never encountered a fly-by-wire focusing lens that gave anything near the precision what a good MF lens (with long focus throw) could provide.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on April 30, 2019, 23:19:21
Never encountered a fly-by-wire focusing lens that gave anything near the precision what a good MF lens (with long focus throw) could provide.

Try a Sony 24/1.4GM or 85/1.4GM...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: CS on May 01, 2019, 00:02:01
One of the main differences between the Z cameras and DSLR's is startup time; nearly instantaneous for a Nikon DSLR but it takes a while for a Z.

This reminds me of how things were when Nikon first introduced digital cameras. Admittedly, the workings of new Z bodies are a total mystery to me, but, I'm surprised that a startup delay would once again become an issue after all of the time that has passed since then.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Tristin on May 01, 2019, 04:07:11
Never encountered a fly-by-wire focusing lens that gave anything near the precision what a good MF lens (with long focus throw) could provide.

I am interested in giving the Zs a whirl, haven't yet, but have never used a fly-by-wire that didn't feel terrible in comparison to mechanical.  I hope the new Noct isn't the only Z mount lens that will retain mechanically operated focus.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on May 01, 2019, 10:18:41
The Z series are being heavly discounted here in Australia by retailers during black friday sales and Nikon Australia also have a $A700 cash back special running at the moment. 

Australian retailing is generally weak at this time of a federal election, with a likely change goverment creating uncertainty in the minds of both purchasers and businesses.  Very grim times.


...
The ILC market is not doing well at all. It is interesting to see how prices of both Z6 and Z7 have dropped during the last weeks.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on May 05, 2019, 20:11:49
It doesn't seem to get a lot of attention, the New Nikkor Z 24-70mm F/2.8S. Compared to the F-mount version(s) it feels relatively small and light, it handles very well on the Z and from what I have seen so far it is a very good lens. I never liked the original 24-70/2.8G that much, especially at the wide end, and as a consequence it wasn't used a lot and left the house. This one is different and is going to stay.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Luc on May 10, 2019, 21:43:20
Eddie, nice image of Calatrava architecture in Valencia!


I had my first Z6 outing this afternoon. A guick Jpeg. Z6 + 70-200mm f4.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47819095091_3ee6dba241_h.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Noct on May 11, 2019, 09:38:43
I had my first Z6 outing this afternoon. A guick Jpeg. Z6 + 70-200mm f4.

Nice and colourful jpg Luc, good to see you here.


It seems that a fully 100% reliable BT connection for location data between the Z7 and my iPhone is still a Fata Morgana, but things got better recently with the latest iPhone update.
Once the BT connection is made there is no problem, but re-establishing a connection after switching on the Z7 still fails once in a while. The trick is to switch off the camera, enter the SnapBridge app and after that switch on the camera again.
Another issue is that the SnapBridge app can only work with one camera at the same time, and does not automatically switch between them. Still room for improvement...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on May 17, 2019, 12:17:08
I´ve upgraded to firmware 2.0 got right away to try the "eye AF". Looking for a tough test I started with 105mm at 1.4 with not so good lighting conditions. It worked very well. It can be fooled if you try hard with eyebrows and glasses at f1.4. Know your limits. Other than those few time when I tried to make it miss -we humans are like that...-it worked very very good. With the 2.8 zooms it didn´t miss a single shot.
   Not happy with that I went to a dance rehearsal. Overall experience with the new af system is very positive -it was already positive before-  Enabling "eye af" during performance worked too. Just be aware that the camera will choose to focus on a face-eye if there is one present no matter were it is on the frame, front of back, center or otherwise. Fast and accurate response. It worked even with the 58mm 1.4 fully open, and that is something to write about.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on May 17, 2019, 12:23:46
It finds faces everywhere and it is faster with lowlights, even just a feet :) . I think it also consumes battery faster but that is a sensation and will have to be tested properly.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on May 24, 2019, 12:05:24
At last -- received and paid the proforma invoice on the 14-30mm f/4 Z from Nikon UK. Thus my copy of it should be on its way ... so strange allocation patterns Nikon Europe has used in the recent years, northern Europe obviously being pushed to the end of the delivery queue. We had the same experience with all Z products so far.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: longzoom on May 24, 2019, 13:24:20
It finds faces everywhere and it is faster with lowlights, even just a feet :) . I think it also consumes battery faster but that is a sensation and will have to be tested properly.
Very, very good images, some of them even stunning, with its deep mood and razor composition. Well done!  And yes, batteries drained much faster, became a problem.  LZ
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: ColinM on May 24, 2019, 16:11:57
It seems that a fully 100% reliable BT connection for location data between the Z7 and my iPhone is still a Fata Morgana, but things got better recently with the latest iPhone update.

My Italian is non-existent so I had to look it up. My Wikipedia says:

Fata Morgana 
"a complex form of superior mirage that is seen in a narrow band right above the horizon.
It is an Italian term named after the Arthurian sorceress Morgan le Fay"

I love that expression - yes that Morgana was a complex and devilish piece of work in the Legends of King Arthur
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on May 26, 2019, 16:39:42
Very, very good images, some of them even stunning, with its deep mood and razor composition. Well done!  And yes, batteries drained much faster, became a problem.  LZ

  Thank you.

  I have been using the camera in a new show this past two days. I have still some traveling to do but will share some here is anything interesting pops up.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on May 28, 2019, 21:16:05
Although I am generally not a zoom-person I am still trying to get used to the 24-70/4S. Here's a landie shot at 70mm.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on May 28, 2019, 23:13:58
Z6, 70-200 fl @2.8, silent shooting mode. Manual exposure. AF changing from full auto face and eye C, to dynamic area C. 1600 iso with adjustment in post as needed.
   In entertaining the unthinkable: to sell the d750. Silent in theater has become a must have for me now.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on May 28, 2019, 23:33:06
Z6, 70-200 fl @2.8, silent shooting mode. Manual exposure. AF changing from full auto face and eye C, to dynamic area C. 1600 iso with adjustment in post as needed.
   In entertaining the unthinkable: to sell the d750. Silent in theater has become a must have for me now.

  My mistake. This is the image I was talking about.


  Now, the previos is  d500, 300mm vrII @ f2.8, 1600 ISO, 1/500th. Doesn´t belong here anyway.... ::)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: JohnBrew on May 31, 2019, 12:25:39
Yes, it is hard to get rid of old technology that still works well.

In Lisbon at the moment. Plenty of tourists but no Z sitings yet...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on June 08, 2019, 06:26:12
Awesome news for the Sony users whom are (thinking of) jumping to the Zee cameras, Gabale is working on an electronic Sony FE to Nikon Z mount!!!!

Check the details here at F&M:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1579875/16

This opens up a whole lot of possibilities for those whom invested heavily in Sony E adapters over the last couple of years.

Personally this would mean that one adapter can be used to:
- Adapt my Voigtlander 15/4.5 FE and Zeiss 35/1.4 FE
- Adapt the Voigtlander 125/2.5 APO with the Metabones Canon EF to FE adapter
- Use the Voigtlander close focus (helicoid) Leica M to FE adapter with the 50/1.2, 85/1.2 and 100/1.6 Heligon
- Make the mentioned manual lenses in to AF lenses with the Techart Leica M to FE autofocus adapter

Some examples here on NR where they've mounted a Sony 55/1.8 FE, a Canon EF 50mm and a Leica M lens:
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/01/18/this-is-the-upcoming-techart-autofocus-lens-adapter-for-nikon-z-mount.aspx/#more-131743

I was hoping for such an adapter but didn't think it would materialise so quickly.

And yes this is why I split my adapters, it's all about the Lego  ;D ;D
The Techart TZE-01 Sony E to NZ can be ordered and is due to ship in about a week.   I am still awaiting more info on using it with the Techart Pro LM -E for AF of my LM Mount lenses on the Z6.   I will wait until I've had more info from my contact in China before ordering.   I have high hopes for my favourite Batis Lenses and small LM lenses.   At the moment orders can be made on eBay UK, most likely others.   You can also order on Techart site.   Interesting that eBay does not mentioned the rumoured included USB Dock for FW updates.
Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on June 08, 2019, 07:59:13
The Techart TZE-01 Sony E to NZ can be ordered and is due to ship in about a week.   I am still awaiting more info on using it with the Techart Pro LM -E for AF of my LM Mount lenses on the Z6.   I will wait until I've had more info from my contact in China before ordering.   I have high hopes for my favourite Batis Lenses and small LM lenses.   At the moment orders can be made on eBay UK, most likely others.   You can also order on Techart site.   Interesting that eBay does not mentioned the rumoured included USB Dock for FW updates.
Cheers,
Tom

I have had one on order from Techart since they first posted ordering. I want to use the Voigtlander Sony E 65mm Macro with the Z7. I have other Voigtlanders (125mm, 180mm, etc.,) but they are in Nikon-F mount, so I can use then now (and I do) with the Nikon adapter. Waiting.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: gryphon1911 on June 10, 2019, 13:18:49
One second hand held experiment backstage of a fitness competition.
Z6 + 24-70/4S

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on June 10, 2019, 13:31:42
Very succesful experiment
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on June 12, 2019, 17:59:22
Very succesful experiment

Couldn't agree more. The old adage "sharpness is a bourgeois concept" still holds.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on June 12, 2019, 18:09:44
Many people world wide know I have struggled with my second Z6, modified by LifePixel to be "full-spectrum". There have been all sorts of issues with the camera, first and foremost a very strong striping of the images in UV, plus the register distance is way off the mark.

I will not attempt describing these problem on NG as they are amply dealt with on our "sister site" here: https://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/index.php/topic/3228-nikon-z6z7-as-a-uvir-conversion-the-bad-news/page__fromsearch__1 . Go there and enjoy the 'pleasure' of being an alpha tester for a camera conversion service.

For now, I decided to keep the Z6 -- despite the banding issue (which can be dealt with using the Topaz Denoise plugin, awkward but doable) and its offset register distance. For the latter I decided to add shims to the various adapters I either have, or are constructing, for this camera. The advantage is the shims can be easily removed once the camera has had its register distance corrected, but as of now, the local Nikon repair techs neither have the repair manuals nor the required tools for such operations on any Z. Until the situation improves I can use my custom adaptation.

The native Z lenses are suitable only for IE emulation or IR, and as of now, only the 14-30 and 50/1.8 are usable candidates to this end. Apparently they have sufficient focal adjustment to cope with the bad register distance of my converted Z6.

Today, I commenced the adjustment project by adding 0.6mm shims to the Nikon S (RF) - Z adapter and this measure made my old rangefinder lenses focus properly with a little to spare in the distant region. As focus tends to move closer when using filters, this behaviour is about as good as it gets.

The old rangefinder lenses do have [simple] coatings yet pass some UV. Probably not very deep into the UV band, but sufficient to give the "UV look" to everyday objects. Filter threads are varying from 40.5 to 52mm thus a lot of step rings are required. Fortunately the legendary 8.5cm f/2 Nikkor (made famous by David D. Duncan in the Korean war) has 48mm threads thus the Baader U fits directly. The lens flares badly unless a very long shade is provided, though.

Here is the "new" Z6 with the 8.5cm lens and a makeshift long hood.

(https://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/uploads/monthly_06_2019/post-2-0-91727400-1560346738.jpg)

I had a lot of fun using this combination today. It felt enjoyable to escape the pressure of getting "perfect" UV photos for a change :D

Lupines run rampant on a road verge. These species are now on the national Black List and it is forbidden to sell stock of them.

(https://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=15613)

The nearby river is in spring spate these days, thus heed the warning sign and mind your steps. Falling into the current might be fatal.

(https://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/uploads/monthly_06_2019/post-2-0-34116100-1560347284.jpg)

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on June 21, 2019, 12:58:03
I broke my D750 and Oly PEN-F so I am in the market for a new system. For now, I want to purchase only one camera.
The Z6 is my main option but I am wondering how balanced the system is with lenses like the 70-200mm f4, 300mm f4 PF , the 105 1.4E and the Zeus milvus 135mm, all obviously with FTZ Adapter.

Can anyone share their experience, e.g. in using these lenses with the Z6/Z7?

I may add a D850 or Z7 later.

Thanks for your help!

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on June 21, 2019, 14:13:06
Sorry to hear about your mishaps. Cameras can be replaced however, so hope there was no personal damage inflicted.

The Z6 balances and handles nicely with the 105/1.4E. In fact, I'm taking that very combination along on next trip (leaving for the southern coast tomorrow early). The 300PF does well too. No experience with the other lenses on your list. The DC-Nikkor 135/2 is a perfect match for my Z-cameras though.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on June 21, 2019, 16:07:32
Sorry to hear about your mishaps. Cameras can be replaced however, so hope there was no personal damage inflicted.

The Z6 balances and handles nicely with the 105/1.4E. In fact, I'm taking that very combination along on next trip (leaving for the southern coast tomorrow early). The 300PF does well too. No experience with the other lenses on your list. The DC-Nikkor 135/2 is a perfect match for my Z-cameras though.

Thank you!
Ps: no personal damage. Just dropped the cameras and the sigma 35mm lens ;-(
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Luc on June 22, 2019, 10:13:55
I broke my D750 and Oly PEN-F so I am in the market for a new system. For now, I want to purchase only one camera.
The Z6 is my main option but I am wondering how balanced the system is with lenses like the 70-200mm f4, 300mm f4 PF , the 105 1.4E and the Zeus milvus 135mm, all obviously with FTZ Adapter.

Can anyone share their experience, e.g. in using these lenses with the Z6/Z7?

I may add a D850 or Z7 later.

Thanks for your help!
Hi Peter, sorry to read about your mishap with the D750 and Pen-F. I own/handled the 70-200mm f4 with FTZ on the Z6 and that's a very nice combination. Nikon still knows how to design ergonomically sound cameras.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on June 22, 2019, 23:51:59
Used with the full-spectrum Z6, the 21mm f/4 Voigtländer (RF-S mount) shows a weak colour spot on axis,  but with the strong IR filter such as the B+W 093 (Wratten 87C equivalent) , results are acceptable none the less.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Luc on June 23, 2019, 00:18:33
Looks nice Birna, lots of lines in this image.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on June 23, 2019, 00:21:42
Lifepixel had really botched the conversion of the full-spectrum Z6 by delivering a modified camera badly off the proper register distance. I needed a total of 0.6mm shims to get the camera to focus acceptably. The Z mount itself only allowed 0.1mm of shims were the signal pathway to continue to  be functional, thus the remaining 0.5mm had to be added to the front mount on the various lens adapters.

Looks nice Birna, lots of lines in this image.

Pure UV shows lots of striping, IR less, and false-colour emulated Infrared Ektachrome virtually none. Most of these cases can be dealt with by the Topaz Denoise plugins, or by processing the NEFs in RawTherapee which has a built-in anti-striping filter.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on June 23, 2019, 01:18:54
Pure UV shows lots of striping, IR less, and false-colour emulated Infrared Ektachrome virtually none. Most of these cases can be dealt with by the Topaz Denoise plugins, or by processing the NEFs in RawTherapee which has a built-in anti-striping filter.

I guess Luc was referring to the geometric lines converging towards the center of the image.    ::)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Luc on June 23, 2019, 12:01:43
I guess Luc was referring to the geometric lines converging towards the center of the image.    ::)
Akira obviously knows my shooting style and preferences very well, so yes I was referring to that non-technical aspect.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jan Anne on June 23, 2019, 13:26:32
The Techart TZE-01 Sony E to NZ can be ordered and is due to ship in about a week.   I am still awaiting more info on using it with the Techart Pro LM -E for AF of my LM Mount lenses on the Z6.   I will wait until I've had more info from my contact in China before ordering.   I have high hopes for my favourite Batis Lenses and small LM lenses.   At the moment orders can be made on eBay UK, most likely others.   You can also order on Techart site.   Interesting that eBay does not mentioned the rumoured included USB Dock for FW updates.
Cheers,
Tom
I've ordered one today, mainly for the Voigtlander 15/4.5 VME and 125/2.5 APO but also the Sony Zeiss 35/1.4E which still seems to be best mirrorless 35mm out there.

Will also test the LM-E AF adapter :)
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on June 23, 2019, 13:40:40
I've ordered one today, mainly for the Voigtlander 15/4.5 VME and 125/2.5 APO but also the Sony Zeiss 35/1.4E which still seems to be best mirrorless 35mm out there.

Will also test the LM-E AF adapter :)

I have two on order, one from Tech-Art and the other from another vendor, in hopes that one actually gets here soon. Tech-Art has yet to respond to any questions that I have sent them. I have the two Voigtlander macro lenses (65mm and 110 mm APO) with Sony E mounts sitting here waiting for their first use. The Voigtlander 110 APO Macro is said to be a perfected CV-125, which I want to see with my own eyes. The 65mm APO Macro is supposed to be somewhat better close-up.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on June 23, 2019, 16:53:04
I broke my D750 and Oly PEN-F so I am in the market for a new system. For now, I want to purchase only one camera.
The Z6 is my main option but I am wondering how balanced the system is with lenses like the 70-200mm f4, 300mm f4 PF , the 105 1.4E and the Zeus milvus 135mm, all obviously with FTZ Adapter.

Can anyone share their experience, e.g. in using these lenses with the Z6/Z7?

I may add a D850 or Z7 later.

Thanks for your help!

I have no experience with those lenses, but if you choose the Z6 please consider the kit with 24-70 f/4. It stays on my camera all the time when traveling.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on June 24, 2019, 08:25:19
J.A.,  I look forward to your views on the adapter with the Sony lenses and with the LM-EA7.   Could save me a ton of money and allow me to hold onto the Df  ;) .  I have many questions on how the Combo of the TZE-01 and the LM-EA7 communicate with the Z6.   There was a guy on Dpr testing and providing information but the thread has been deleted (???) just as he was due to post a newer review after installing the new F.W.
I am reasonably happy with a dumb adapter for my LM mount lenses on the Z6 but the Batis lenses are a PITA for MF.
I would love the little 35 f2.8 I bought from you to work well as small Street lens.

Michael,  I am looking forward to your views also but I shoot nothing like you do and am just in awe of your skills in Macro so I look forward to your images more.
Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on June 24, 2019, 13:09:17
May I ask one more question regarding the Z6/Z7?
How does the EVF perform in bright sunlight for someone with glasses compared to OVF? With my (ex) Fuji X-T1 I had to shield the EVF with my hand.

Ps: thanks for the suggestion, Jack! Although I prefer primes, the 24-70 seems to be a great option
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on June 24, 2019, 13:50:11
May I ask one more question regarding the Z6/Z7?
How does the EVF perform in bright sunlight for someone with glasses compared to OVF? With my (ex) Fuji X-T1 I had to shield the EVF with my hand.

I've done the same on all mirrorless cameras with EVF tha I've used over the years.

I also have to make a shade when I look at the LCD screen in the strong against-the-light situations.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on June 24, 2019, 15:00:53
I've done the same on all mirrorless cameras with EVF tha I've used over the years.

I also have to make a shade when I look at the LCD screen in the strong against-the-light situations.

Thank you, Akira. I was already afraid of that and it might be a reason to buy another D750 instead of a Z6 despite the multiple advantages of the Z6 compared to the D750
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on June 24, 2019, 17:05:15
Thank you, Akira. I was already afraid of that and it might be a reason to buy another D750 instead of a Z6 despite the multiple advantages of the Z6 compared to the D750

Peter, I would have to add that my eyes are very sensitive to the bright light, which exacerbates the problem.

In addition, it is often difficult to discern the border between the screen and the pitch black area around the screen when very dark area comes to the edge of the image frame.  In that case, I often lose the center of the image, and the framing resulted picture is way off.

So far as I know, Panasonic and Fuji offers a function to add a thin light gray line around the edge of the frame which offers a very clear border between the screen and the surrounding black area.  I highly regard the function.  I'm not sure if Nikon camera offers that.  I'm sure the Nikon 1 didn't.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on June 24, 2019, 23:55:00
Akira, if there is one, I have not seing it.

   Still using the z6 more than any other camera I own.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on June 25, 2019, 01:31:57
Akira, if there is one, I have not seing it.

Thank you for the feedback, Paco.  The thin bright gray frame is always "on" on Panasonic, and can be "switched on" on Fujifilm by checking the "Framing Outline" checkbox in the Display Custom Setting menu in the Screen Set-up menu.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: armando_m on June 25, 2019, 04:49:38
Thank you for the feedback, Paco.  The thin bright gray frame is always "on" on Panasonic, and can be "switched on" on Fujifilm by checking the "Framing Outline" checkbox in the Display Custom Setting menu in the Screen Set-up menu.
thank you Akira ! Very useful tip
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Akira on June 25, 2019, 04:58:35
thank you Akira ! Very useful tip

Armando, activating the "Framing Outline" function is highly recommended!
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on June 25, 2019, 11:06:46
Akira (and others), thank you for your thoughts and attention area.
This morning I bought the Z6+FTZ+24-70mm kit and 35mm lens. Thanks to the cash back I saved 500 euros.
I purchased no batteries as. I want to check first how the EN-EL15 batteries that I used in the D750.
The next step is to decide whether I send the D750 for repair.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on June 25, 2019, 12:11:24
Peter, I do not know how many Nikon F-mount legacy lenses that you have, but if you do have a number (like I do), then I suggest that you first need to try them out on the Z6 with the FTZ adapter and form your own personal judgement as to whether their operation on the Z6 is to your liking in comparison to how they worked for you on the D750. 

Whilst the Z6/7 are effectively lens brand agnostic, some flexibility is lost in the instance of those lenses without metering chips in them  That said, there is a whole plethora of non-Nikon lenses that the Z6/7 can utilise via adapters that a conventional Nikon DSLR cannot use because of the difference in lens register distances (46.5mm for the DSLRs versus 16mm for the Z6/7).

I like my Z7, but I will not be getting rid of my Nikon DSLRs anytime soon.  YMMV.


.................................................................
The next step is to decide whether I send the D750 for repair.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on June 25, 2019, 17:10:49
Peter, I do not know how many Nikon F-mount legacy lenses that you have, but if you do have a number (like I do), then I suggest that you first need to try them out on the Z6 with the FTZ adapter and form your own personal judgement as to whether their operation on the Z6 is to your liking in comparison to how they worked for you on the D750. 

Whilst the Z6/7 are effectively lens brand agnostic, some flexibility is lost in the instance of those lenses without metering chips in them  That said, there is a whole plethora of non-Nikon lenses that the Z6/7 can utilise via adapters that a conventional Nikon DSLR cannot use because of the difference in lens register distances (46.5mm for the DSLRs versus 16mm for the Z6/7).

I like my Z7, but I will not be getting rid of my Nikon DSLRs anytime soon.  YMMV.

That is an excellent idea! Thanks. I already noticed that I can’t use the aperture ring of my Zeiss 135mm lens. I have to set it to max and control aperture via the aperture wheel.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Roland Vink on June 25, 2019, 22:42:46
If you tape over the Zeiss 135mm contacts, you can (must) use the aperture ring, if that's what you prefer. But then you have to manually set the focal length/max aperture and lose some exif data...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on June 26, 2019, 05:13:23
Yes, and be prepared to work at the taking aperture when doing the metering - which might get a little dim if the light is bad.

If you tape over the Zeiss 135mm contacts, you can (must) use the aperture ring, if that's what you prefer. But then you have to manually set the focal length/max aperture and lose some exif data...
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on July 05, 2019, 06:36:15
Just for info:
I just received this from my preferred dealer , not Techart,

"...But the problem is Techart said it's not support use together with the LM-EA7 yet. They planned to support but there is still tech issue can't be solved. so it's not work with EA7 now.  "

I do plan on using my Batis 25. 85, 135, Loxia 21, 50 and FE 35 f2.8 on the Z6 so the question is to wait or buy now???   I would be much happier if my Leica M mount lenses worked as well.  I do not know if the "...tech issue..." can be resolved with a FW or if it would be a new adapter???

I will see if Techart answers my email.  If, and when, I receive a response I will up-date
Cheers,

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: richardHaw on July 05, 2019, 16:30:38
i just realized that it doesnt have a dedicated botton for AF modes or CSM  ::)

and....

you cant assign it to the custom buttons  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on July 05, 2019, 16:42:39
I have sent MANY emails to TechArt and never received a single response.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on July 11, 2019, 16:05:40
Three things struck me in using the Z6 for a few days and looking at the RAW files in LR:
1. The colors are rather saturated compared to those of the D750.
2. Noise levels seems to be higher than those of the D750 at comparable ISO levels.
3. Besides applying the camera profile, LR mystically adjusts exposure ,highlights, shadows, sharpens with a 2.0 radius and reduces both color and luminance noise.

Am I doing something wrong or do others have similar experience?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Birna Rørslett on July 11, 2019, 20:33:00
I run my Z files through Photo Ninja. Haven't noticed anything untoward. On the contrary, the results are usually spot on in terms of colour rendition and -saturation, and noise levels are very low for Z7 (which I always shoot at low ISO, it being now mainly confined to studio work). The Z6 comes out of PN with low noise too, but of course the results cannot be directly compared to those of Z7 as I often shoot Z6 at much higher ISO settings (it is my to-go camera together with the Df).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: pluton on July 11, 2019, 20:45:33

3. Besides applying the camera profile, LR mystically adjusts exposure ,highlights, shadows, sharpens with a 2.0 radius and reduces both color and luminance noise.

Am I doing something wrong or do others have similar experience?
No Z-cam here,  but just as a reminder: there is the possibility of controlling the settings applied at import in Lightroom.  Do you have "Auto Tone" selected here?...
Import>Apply During Import>Develop Settings>Auto Tone
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: fish_shooter on July 11, 2019, 22:47:27
Three things struck me in using the Z6 for a few days and looking at the RAW files in LR:
1. The colors are rather saturated compared to those of the D750.
2. Noise levels seems to be higher than those of the D750 at comparable ISO levels.
3. Besides applying the camera profile, LR mystically adjusts exposure ,highlights, shadows, sharpens with a 2.0 radius and reduces both color and luminance noise.

Am I doing something wrong or do others have similar experience?

Go to the photo shooting menu and set picture control to flat and see what happens the next time you import raw files into LR.
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: rs on July 12, 2019, 00:27:55
Yes, it seems that Lightroom take the camera settings metadata that applies to JPEG files and uses those as the initial settings for raw files.

See this discussion:

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=128614.msg1118076#msg1118076

Regards,

Richard
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on July 12, 2019, 09:00:23
Thank you very much, Richard, Tom, Keith and Birna.Very helpful.
 I am not sure if I like what LR does but I will change the jpeg settings in-camera. And test some alternatives. I still have PhotoNinja and I am also curious to see what Luminar does.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on July 13, 2019, 22:07:14
Today I had my first real test of the Z6 in the field at an event. I must admit that I have to get used to it. The system has its advantages but it is not as snappy as the D750. Especially the startup time is annoying. However, the most disappointing part is the poor battery life. I used EVF only but the battery was dead after appt. 250 shots. Fortunately the d750 batteries work fine so I could finish the job. But I am sure I will get used to it.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on July 17, 2019, 18:46:28
Today I had my first real test of the Z6 in the field at an event. I must admit that I have to get used to it. The system has its advantages but it is not as snappy as the D750. Especially the startup time is annoying. However, the most disappointing part is the poor battery life. I used EVF only but the battery was dead after appt. 250 shots. Fortunately the d750 batteries work fine so I could finish the job. But I am sure I will get used to it.

I now have shot a couple of days with the Z6 and I must admit that the camera is not ideal for shooting events. I've missed at least 10 spontaneous moments because of the wake-up time, also after extending the power-on time. I have to half-press the shutter button to activate the EVF and by the time it is awake the moment is gone and/or the camera misfocuses. I can think of some workarounds but I am curious what other people do.
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: tommiejeep on July 26, 2019, 04:16:12
OK, I now have the TZE-01. Some wrong info being put out on some sites.

First, it works very well with my Batis and Loxia lenses on the Z6.  I do not use Eye AF but will get around to trying it.

It does not work with the Techart Pro to AF my LM mount lenses however it does give AF confirmation beep and green square and reports data entered into the non-CPU data so if you already have it it is more functional than my dumb Kipon L/M-N/Z which reports nothing in MF.

Interesting that when I turn on the Z6 the Techart Pro does cycle through its' out/in movement (got me excited  ) . No communication to the motor for AF but MF works.

I do not know why some have said you cannot even take a photo. I will post some with ZM 50 1.5, Leica M 75 f2.5 and VM 35 1.7.

I am not much of a 'tester' .  It will make a difference in what lenses I buy for the Z6.
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on July 26, 2019, 06:38:38
I find that some lenses, like the Laowa 100mm F/2.8 2X Ultra Macro APO Lens for Sony FE require a DUMB adapter, one without a chip, in order for the Nikon Z7 to fire the shutter. The Kipon is a dumb adapter and allows the Laowa 100mm F/2.8 2X Ultra Macro APO Lens for Sony FE to fire.

 

 
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: PeterN on July 27, 2019, 13:59:51
A little more than a week ago I was able to put the Z6 through the test during a Golf event of my golf club, so I thought to share my current thoughts (it is a work in progress). Although my point of reference is the Nikon DSLR (D750 and D810) I also used other mirrorless systems before (Fuji, Olympus).

Generally speaking I must say that I do not know how much of an improvement the new Z-system is compared to the DSLR systems, in my case the Z6 vs the D750. I do know that “mirrorless” apparently is the way to go and I do think that the larger mount brings some interesting possibilities for the future. However, when I compare the cameras “In the field” it does not really show yet.  At the end of the day, what counts is that I can create a photo that is able to communicate what I saw or felt. Let me tell you that is quite a confession for someone like me who is definitely a gadget-freak!

Does the Z6 allow me to create photos that communicate what I saw or felt! Definitely. But so does the D750 or any other camera. Honestly, comparing the 2 side-by-side, opting for another D750 or a Df would have saved quite a bit of money.

What are - in my opinion for my type of shooting - the biggest advantages and drawbacks in using the Z6 (compared to the D750), especially in shooting events?

The number one advantage is the quiet shutter.  Another is the ability to quickly reset the camera to 3 user modes instead of 2. Another is that the EVF makes it easier to focus manually. I am happy about the quality of the Nikon EVF. There is no noticeable lag and it works well in various lighting circumstances. I also like the ISO button on top. The ISO button on the D750 is positioned rather akwardly which makes changing on the fly more of a challenge (I always hit the wrong button when I keep my eye close to the OVF of the D750).

My number one annoyance is the start-up time between shots. Even after extending the “on” time, the camera switched off quickly, making me miss about 10-15 crucial moments during the week. I haven’t found a good solution yet. My second annoyance is battery life.The camera also heats up quickly compared to the D750. The third one is that the easy-to-accidentally-use-joystick changes the focus point, also making me miss quick shots. I guess there is solution for that but I haven’t looked into that yet. And my last big annoyance: The pronounced shape of the finder blocks the view on the LCD when you hold the camera on a lower level. Very annoying.

Connectivity is an attention area (so not an annoyance).  To my knowledge there are no readers for iPad and tablets yet, so WiFi is the way to go if you are on a trip.  I also do not like the one card slot solution. I was used to using one card for storing raw files and another for jpegs. I used the latter for quick processing and sharing via my iPad. I now have to use the wifi connection in the field. loading photos into my iPad to select and send photos that needed to be shared quickly.

When it comes to size, weight, IQ the two cameras are comparable. The Z6 looks smaller but does not really weight less when you hold the two cameras. In fact, since the D750 is a bit larger, it is more comfortable to hold for a day.

 The FTZ works easy but when I mounts the Zeiss, there is some play (not sure if that is the correct word) and I need to set the lens at maximum (or minimum depending on your perspective) aperture to get an aperture reading and to be able to make a shot.

The 24-70mm f4 lens puzzles me. I need to shoot more before being able to say something about it but the AF and/or sharpness seems to be a bit of an issue.

I can’t really comment on image processing yet. To quickly share photos, I decided to use jpeg instead of raw, which I normally use. I was not happy with the results of the Standard setting(s) which resulted in unnatural, oversaturated colors (at least on my calibrated Eizo screen). Using the Neutral setting helped somewhat but I like the results of the D810 and D750 better. I can only guess about the cause of this, including my lack of experience in using the Z6. I haven’t worked with camera/color profiles either.

Due to the Z6 "annoyances", I decided to send my D750 for repair. The camera is now like new again, so I can choose the best one for each situation.  And then there is my little PEN-F for travel and documentary work.

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Hugh_3170 on July 27, 2019, 15:32:04
On my Z7, the Picture Control setting straight out of the box was "A Auto", which lead to the same unnatural colours that you have observed.  I have chosen the "SD Standard" setting as my go to setting, which is a tad more neutral IMHO  than the "Neutral" setting.  I am still tweaking this one.

A dumb arsed choice of default setting on Nikon's part if you ask me!


..............................................

I was not happy with the results of the Standard setting(s) which resulted in unnatural, over saturated colors (at least on my calibrated Eizo screen). Using the Neutral setting helped somewhat but I like the results of the D810 and D750 better. I can only guess about the cause of this, including my lack of experience in using the Z6. I haven’t worked with camera/color profiles either.

Due to the Z6 "annoyances", I decided to send my D750 for repair. The camera is now like new again, so I can choose the best one for each situation.  And then there is my little PEN-F for travel and documentary work.

................................................

Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Nikfuson on August 02, 2019, 23:28:52
I tested the eye AF before and after updating the firmware to 2.01. I was curious whether there was any change in the distance of detection. I tried with the 50/1.8S and the Sigma 105/1.4Art on my Z6 and nope...just as before. I used the house model walking towards me several times (with both lenses applied) and the before/after FW update changed to face, then eye AF at identical distances. I've seen reports about the eye AF hitting the eyelashes instead of the cornea/pupil and to test this I applied the 105 to the task. Sure, a mere +3 in AF fine tune seem to yield slightly better results but this needs more testing before any firm conclusion can be drawn.
Here're two shots with each lens wide open (the second one with the +3 AFFT).
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Michael Erlewine on August 03, 2019, 18:19:49
I am trying to install the firmware update 200.1 for the Nikon Z&. I have a fresh battery. I have the firmware update-201 on the top level of the Card. However, when I go and look. I only see firmware 200 shown and Z_7_0201.bin not show or any button to trigger the update. Obviously, I am doing something wrong. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Eric Borgström on August 04, 2019, 12:12:10
Michael,
I first had this problem. What was wrong was that I had expanded the original update file twice and ended up with an updatefil named: Z_7_0201.bin.cpgz
Check your card.

Hope this will help,
Eric



Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 26, 2019, 00:00:47
I shot the Z6 today for the first time and I AM BLOW AWAY

Sorry, folks, but I shot the D5 very early and a lot of other very nice equipment. This one is AMAZING.

Just three spontaneous snapshots:
Title: Re: Nikon Z6/7 mirrorless system
Post by: golunvolo on August 26, 2019, 00:48:29
Beautiful and spontaneous they are. How did you use the AF for this? They are spot on all of them. Beautiful lighting too. This gear seems to  work very well with your style and reflexes