Nikon Negativity

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Great vignettes, I agree Nikon has to change -- not to be glitzy for the sake of it, but to be more customer-centric. What are the use cases day to day where (non-paid) photographers are deciding whether to bring a camera or a smart phone to a social outing and want images to move quickly from camera to phone to sharing. I am not saying that is true for all my photography, but i want that option of speed and flow for the times I want it. 

Nikon do have Snapbridge which allows 2MP files to be transferred easily (albeit slowly) to a smartphone. In the first versions it didn't work well, but in the D850 (from 2017) I never had much problem in using it when I wanted social media sized images easily to the phone. The initial connection can take a while though, but reportedly in the Z6/Z7 it is faster and more reliable to connect and transfer the images. Also Nikon removed the restrictions and now the cameras support also direct wifi connections with 3rd party software without needing to use Nikon's own app to open the connection. Thus while this had a rough start it seems to deliver now what was promised. True, the software is still very limited in what you can do with it, but as 3rd party software can be used instead, they have more features.

[Jack Dahlgren]

Nikon do have Snapbridge which allows 2MP files to be transferred easily (albeit slowly) to a smartphone. In the first versions it didn't work well, but in the D850 (from 2017) I never had much problem in using it when I wanted social media sized images easily to the phone. The initial connection can take a while though, but reportedly in the Z6/Z7 it is faster and more reliable to connect and transfer the images. Also Nikon removed the restrictions and now the cameras support also direct wifi connections with 3rd party software without needing to use Nikon's own app to open the connection. Thus while this had a rough start it seems to deliver now what was promised. True, the software is still very limited in what you can do with it, but as 3rd party software can be used instead, they have more features.

Snapbridge got a recent update which seems to make connections more reliable. For photographing my construction project I've built the world's biggest selfie stick by epoxying a small ballhead on the end of a 4.5 meter wind sailing mast. I use a bungie cord to attach my phone to the other end. Using snapbridge to connect to the camera to preview image, control focus and shutter/aperture settings works pretty well. I'm more satisfied with it than with any other options I tried.

[arthurking83]

I like Thom, and enjoy reading his musings.
Doesn't mean you have to agree with everything he says/writes tho.
As an example, Thom seems to think that Nikon(and more broadly camera makers) would either lose less sales, or potentially increase sales of products that 'connect' more readily to the flavour of the month social sites craze that the world is afflicted by.
I personally can't see it myself.
That is, by what metric would the current photo enthused person dump their smartphone and use a dedicated camera to shoot and upload the images instantly to instagram/facebook/whatever social site?

Also the 'buzz buzz' argument .. also can't see that as a plausible tactic to increase sales in any way.
It's not an uncommon situation for the photo geek to eventually upgrade from Dx to Fx, and getting 'stuck' with Dx only lenses has no long term future.
Been there, done that .. kind of regretted having spent money on Dx only lenses in a mild manner. Not totally tho, just that had I known after the fact, at an earlier(DX only) point .. I'd never have bought some of my Dx only lenses, only one was the Sigma 10-20 that I never regretted in any way.
But I think what'd be a more productive sales pitch by Nikon, is a return to the E series type sale pitch. Cheaper. Don't have to even be f/1.8 lenses .. f/2's and f/2.8's would be fine.
But $700 for a 'nifty fifty' for the Z mount ... doesn't equate to a very affordable system in total.
Where's the $200 lens for those that are 'interested' but not that interested. Being the best isn't a priority for everyone. Having the best also doesn't rate a mention for some of us.

Should be noted, I'm not rich by any measure. In fact I'm in the higher side of the poor end of the socio-economic scale .. for sure.
What available funds I do have tho, I spend on 'toys'. I'd say 50% of(not a lot) of my allowable income has been spent on photo related gear. Not counting the cameras themselves, 10% of that has been Nikon.
I've tried to tally up how much I've spent on all manner of accessories, primarily lenses, 99% thirdparty(and old obscure stuff) .. Nikon generally don't even rate a mention for me.
Nikon are either over the top financially or tech/user unfriendly. While I'm sure the 70-200/2.8 FL E is an awesome lens .. it's so far off my radar that I barely know it exists. SO again, I don't need the best, I'm only interested in good value for money.
But that doesn't mean only cheap stuff tho. 200-500 could have been in my bag too, but this is where the the techy/geeky side of their gear fails.
I went for the $1000 more expensive Sigma 150-600 lens primarily as it has the USB lens dock system as part of the overall system.
Having been bitten before with sub par Nikon products(80-200/2.8D), this is now a priority for me too. So where are their user settable geeky accessories?
Nikon are too self absorbed to notice what's happening in the world.
Any argument that Nikon lenses don't need 'lens docks' is BS too . many recent lens issues massively highlight why they DID and still DO need this kind of product range.
Had any Nikon exec even considered this as user problem that needed to be addressed?
Self absorbed is the only way to describe Nikon's current management mindset and product ethic.
This extends to software, accessories and products/engineering environment.
I'm convinced that Sony's full frame mirrorless success, is primarily due to the internet buzz that the keyboard warrior geek types have fostered over the lifetime of this camera.
The mindless mass consumer type .. the types that all bought into the good camera syndrome, then all gravitated back to the smartphone is good enough scenario don't care for forums/geeky techy stuff and so forth .. but they have to come from somewhere.
And if those that graduated from smartphone soccer mom school to geeky techy type photography scour the net for info, they read Sony A7, Sigma(and tamron) lens docks .. etc.
All they read about Nikon is boring, closed shop, no future, big heavy DSLR only, corporate morons(which they are) .. unfriendly customer satisfaction .. etc.

Great vignettes, I agree Nikon has to change -- not to be glitzy for the sake of it, but to be more customer-centric. ....

And this is my experience.
I've had bad experiences with Nikon corporate philosophy with some of my products. Met with resistance from my local Nikon (Aus) people. Issue with the 80-200/2.8 D and then the D800E(the 10 pin port).
Both obvious issues that were product fails, not user related.
80-200 issue, all I wanted was it to be tweaked so that it didn't backfocus. All they bothered about was it was out of warranty. I never asked about warranty. Not a customer focused ideology in sight!.
To the customer this reeks of liability avoidance on their part. I never brought the issue up, and was more than happy to have the lens work properly and pay for it. My instinct went with avoid the idiots as all they'[re interested in was not having to pay for the issue inherent in their product! Fail No. 1
Fail No. 2 was the 10 pin port on my D800E fell into the body, ie. came loose and no longer usable. Via email, all I got was that there was no recurring issue, and that it'd have to be assessed on a case by case basis. I know exactly what the outcome would be(in that I'd have to pay). Moron contact couldn't give me an estimate time and price. JUST REPLACE the 10 pin port .. how much? I wasn't asking for his personal bank data ... for crying out loud.
Couldn't give me an estimate as it needed to be examined!
I then replied I want nothing other than to replace the 10 pin port. . no service, no SLA, no examination .. NOTHING! .. just how much to replace the 10 pin port(even tho it was a week out of warranty) .. I'm happy to pay.
Sorry can't help.
ps,. I searched the net and found many cases of fallen in D800 10 pin ports on the net, and even a claim from Nikon Germany that it was an issue and would be fixed if out of warranty too.
I posted this info to the moron Nikon person I was emailing and it stopped there.

Nikon : customer centric  .. two mutually exclusive terms .. and never the twain shall meet!

And just now, I read on DPR that Canon's new 70-200/2.8 RF lens is backfocusing in some instances. Could well be only a small handful of vocal keyboard warriors doing the shouting, but Canon's response was swift and precise!
They investigating, have found a possible issue and will be releasing a firmware update ASAP.
Contrast that with historical Nikon issues .. lenses, camera bodies whatever else. Nikon have always resisted use issues, as they have this self centric corporate mentality.
THAT's what Nikon's issue is.
I'm a bit of a masochist, and I'll endure morons(like Nikon) with my own workarounds .. eg. I buy lenses from companies that have even a small amount of customer focused spirit in them .. ie. the lens dock. If a problem is found, download the firmware, connect lens, presto!
If Nikon don't address the customer focused problem, they will continue to lose sales. I used to be a vocal Nikon proponent myself. I may have been an insignificant amount of noise on the net for them, but I know I've influenced some new to photography types directly.
Now my noise is more about the corporate ideology, and how bad it is(my experience) .. and I know there are others .. and it all adds up. New to photography types pretty much ALL use the net to find more info to help themselves, and for Nikon(who are too stupid to see this) .. ignore it!

Any more stupid own goals from Nikon(in terms of camera) and I'm out. I won't take any more camera body stuff ups at a personal level. Was going to buy a D850 and possibly a Z6 or 7 this year, but finances took a smashing this year(out of work). So maybe will next year if I can get back on my financial feet. But it may be some other newer/better model that they release in the interim. Probably won't ever buy a Nikon lens ever again .. to many better value for money alternatives to waste it on Nikon.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

I don't really agree; all my issues with Nikon equipment have been resolved and I've always encountered the most positive and constructive response from Nikon. Some problems are harder to fix and take more time; there may not be a solution immediately available. However, this is not specific to Nikon.

In this thread starting from May (there were earlier threads on the topic so this is not the first report but it is the longest discussion on it):

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1595119

they discuss an IS problem with 600/4. It seems that Canon for a long time denied a problem exists and told customers that they have subject movement blur.  Finally as the lens was about one year since launch, they issued a firmware update which alleviated the problem (but did not completely fix it). This is not too different to Nikon's response in a similar situation. Of course, the real fix is to use EFCS (but not all cameras support it in viewfinder shooting).

[arthurking83]

I don't really agree; all my issues with Nikon equipment have been resolved and I've always encountered the most positive and constructive response from Nikon. ....

probably a regional difference?
Do you have NPS membership?

I don't, and on the regional possibility, Nikon here in Aus has a fairly well known reputation for  .. 'not so high customer satisfaction' .. for everyone.
Some folks get it, many don't(here in Aus).

I totally get that some gear can have issues at launch, but it seems that recently Nikon had hit many own goals with far too many of their modern high profile gear.
Obviously other makers have also had issues, never said they hadn't, but Canon's recent response .. the swiftness of their response to be more accurate, with the very recent 70-200 RF lens was good to hear about.
Can't help but wonder what Nikon's response would have been tho.
I guess time will tell, if some newly released product falters in some way in the future.

As an aside, maybe some regional Nikon outlets simply have differing customer satisfaction strategies, but my issue is with Nikon Aus, not Nikon's primary HQ. I've never dealt with Nikon other than Aus.
Maybe my reply should have been more specific in that Nikon HQ should be directing any regional base to be less abrasive towards their customers, if they are.
Many possibilities for methods for head office to keep a check on the regions effective customer relation quality .. and so forth.

Oh! and another aside(from many years ago).
A long time ago(here in Aus) Nikon HQ never had a direct presence here. The authorised importer were a company called Maxwells. I don't know when it all changed, but back in about 1998, my ex had an FG. ( I had an EM as well, but it was past it's best before date)
Anyhow, on a trip we discovered(too late) that it had leaking seals, so all images from it were light damaged. Some parts usable.
I knew Maxwells, due to some work we used to do, so one day while working popped in, chatted to an chap about it, he said come back in an hour .. due to work missed that day, but a couple days later when delivering another lot of stuff to them, same chap at the counter gave me back the FG, all fixed .. no charge.
Customer satisfaction was secured at that point, and to be honest no other camera maker was in contention when I bought my D70s back in 2006.
I consider myself a 'loyal customer' on the whole. This applies to many aspects, not just camera equipment.
 
One other experience I had on a similar note.
One of my favourite lenses had been the Tamron 28-75/2.8 for a long time. On both the D70s and then the D300 it appeared to backfocus. I searched the net for Tamron distributor in Aus, and it turned out to be Maxwells.
Contacted them by email, and explained the issue. A couple of days later they sent me a courier bag for me to ship the old lens(at this stage maybe ~5 years old).
It was not as much an issue as the N 80-200/2.8 tho, as the focus collar was movable even tho it was an AF-D type lens. All I needed to remember(easy to do) was to not so much move focus, but to counter the .05mm of slack in the AF-D gear train using the lenses AF collar. Just taking up the slack in the AF drive got me back to 'acceptable' sharpness(only at 75mm end).

Nikon HQ did themselves a monumental disservice having cut ties with a proper customer centric company, and gone it alone.

[Cyril]

The reasoning behind this is, you guessed it, lenses. Given the fact that Nikon never filled out the DX lens lineup means that cameras like the D3500, D5600, and D7500 just shouldn't be in Nikon's future. They're dead ends without lenses.

Oh my god. I stopped reading at that point because of how stupid and funny that was. Before they give the author the position of CEO in the Nikon company, someone should tell him that someone using a D500 or any DX camera.. wait for it... CAN and WILL use DX or NON-DX lenses alike. There's no point making an entire line-up of DX lenses... there's already a good number of them and above all, there are a lot of F mount lenses in production that work perfectly fine with DX cameras..
And guess what? Some DX cameras like the D7000 even work with 50 or 60 year old Nikon lenses 

So let's have a laugh at that quote again, shall we?

They're dead ends without lenses.

Everyone, quick, sell your Nikon D500 for cheap, there's no lenses for your camera 

[chambeshi]

Oh my god. I stopped reading at that point because of how stupid and funny that was. Before they give the author the position of CEO in the Nikon company, someone should tell him that someone using a D500 or any DX camera.. wait for it... CAN and WILL use DX or NON-DX lenses alike. There's no point making an entire line-up of DX lenses... there's already a good number of them and above all, there are a lot of F mount lenses in production that work perfectly fine with DX cameras..
And guess what? Some DX cameras like the D7000 even work with 50 or 60 year old Nikon lenses 

So let's have a laugh at that quote again, shall we?

Everyone, quick, sell your Nikon D500 for cheap, there's no lenses for your camera 

Nikon's line up in DX vs the many more options in FX optics speaks for itself. Nikon is mirroring this strategy with the Z50 in the excellent 16-50 DX + 1 tele / travel DX zoom ....more than fine, in fact great for its niche. Otherwise investing in DX lenses is to head down a cul de sac.I moved incrementally to FX from DX and the D500 was my last, which I sold a year back with mixed feelings to afford the Z7. The only DX lenses I invested in were the 10-24 and 40 Micro-Nikkor. Otherwise FX and the D500 is still one of the very best wildlife cameras ever made but then so are the D850 and D5, with the D750 and D4 lineages not far behind.

The Z cameras are excellent, subject to improving AFC and missing options in the Custom menus (which we take for granted in DSLRs).  Each and every Z-Nikkor is excellent. Overall, there is little to quibble about, especially looking at the Z Roadmap. OTH we still have yet to even hear about a fully functional FTZ adapter (ie for F-Nikon lenses older than DSLR era models). The silence from Nikon about a possible FTZd adapter with full exif for AIS lenses + S'driver AF detracts from what Nikon stands among many of its established clients. This is far more serious than some apologists try to make out: dismissing a FTZd as trivial. For one, these gaps in rounding off the Z System invite Nikon-Bashing: ie incomplete adapter support and delays to update AFC and Custom menus.

[chambeshi]

Recent cutbacks of Nikon's support (in S Africa and Brazil are 2 countries) don't bode well. Reliable timely service is vital to minimize disappointments and hold on to future upgraders. Negative experiences have the tendency to be shared in forums etc. Some switchers probably hesitate because of reports of shoddy service from Sony , well at least those not deceived by the youtube spin doctors. More strategically, the main camera companies must all realise they have to improve support to remaining customers to maintain loyalty in the shrinking ILC market.

Expansion of FX MILC systems opens up yet another threat to undivided loyalty to one brand (aka Lens-Mount). The L-Alliance is an entirely new strategy. This is one of 2 ways why it is feasible and affordable to build heterogeneous systems. Aside from a pure L-Mount system it will become easier and affordable to use  DSLR lenses (eg EF and F) on Sony or L-Mount or Z Nikon cameras. These opportunities will grow as the rival FX MILC systems mature.

The keys lie in the parallel rise of 3rd party smart adapters. The ZE adapters for Sony on Nikon Z and ZEF also for Canon optics are recent. They are attracting attention. Similar adapters to L-Mount are likely. But it remains to be seen, (1) how smart such adapters are and (2) what %age of enthusiasts pursue these options. In this context, the strategic status of the Z-Mount is also interesting. It is the universal Lens-mount. So we may see a "mixed family" of lenses on a single camera.

[Cyril]

Nikon's line up in DX vs the many more options in FX optics speaks for itself. Nikon is mirroring this strategy with the Z50 in the excellent 16-50 DX + 1 tele / travel DX zoom ....more than fine, in fact great for its niche. Otherwise investing in DX lenses is to head down a cul de sac.I moved incrementally to FX from DX and the D500 was my last, which I sold a year back with mixed feelings to afford the Z7. The only DX lenses I invested in were the 10-24 and 40 Micro-Nikkor. Otherwise FX and the D500 is still one of the very best wildlife cameras ever made but then so are the D850 and D5, with the D750 and D4 lineages not far behind.

The Z cameras are excellent, subject to improving AFC and missing options in the Custom menus (which we take for granted in DSLRs).  Each and every Z-Nikkor is excellent. Overall, there is little to quibble about, especially looking at the Z Roadmap. OTH we still have yet to even hear about a fully functional FTZ adapter (ie for F-Nikon lenses older than DSLR era models). The silence from Nikon about a possible FTZd adapter with full exif for AIS lenses + S'driver AF detracts from what Nikon stands among many of its established clients. This is far more serious than some apologists try to make out: dismissing a FTZd as trivial. For one, these gaps in rounding off the Z System invite Nikon-Bashing: ie incomplete adapter support and delays to update AFC and Custom menus.

But if anything, buying a D500 meant you had access to more lenses, not fewer! FX and DX. So the initial statement of the gentleman in the article is simply false.

You see the switch from DX to FX or Z as an upgrade but is it really? I don't own either of those, so only you can tell us if -- taking into account the 1,500 euro difference --  the Z7 is definitely superior in every way, or is it a different camera and a different tool in the sense that both cameras are good in their separate roles.
Regards

[MILLIREHM]

I have got several FX and DX SlR and a Z6. But - besides I have accumulated dozens of FX lenses of all sort (ranging from old manual focus to the newest) there is only one DX lens in my arsenal (the 12-24 f/4 Nikkor I bought for the D200 my first DSLR ever) and I did not ever feel the need for more DX lenses at all for most of the time (well the 16-80mm F2,8-4 E ED might be worth going for it sometimes). And i have acquired only one Z-mount lens so far (but the FTZ Adapter of course). I see none of these lines as a replacement for each other. The Z is great in low light but i prefer optical viewfinder in good dayligtht, their ergonomy and speed is behind and to stay compact I need  one of my pancake type lenses.

I could say I have got enough but nevertheless am interested that Nikon stays vital enough to develop additional products and accessories and keep mirrorless and SLR as a parallel development, so some things make me concerned that I consider management failures.

Personally no other camera is a replacement of what the D500 is doing for me, so despite rumors showing the opposite I hopefully wish that they keep at least a top-DX model in line and upgrade the D500 some time in the future. (That there wont be a Df2 is more acceptable)
I am looking forward to the D6 and hope it will be a significant leap forward but even a D6 wont be able to replace the D500 (as well as my current D4s could not). I am wishing Nikon lots of commercial successwith the Z50 but a Z- DX combo it is not of interest for me.

[MILLIREHM]

what really alerts me is this news

https://nikonrumors.com/2019/12/09/nikon-is-killing-its-authorized-repair-program.aspx/

combined with chambeshis message about similar things in Brasil and South Africa.

(BTW as i am Austrian and Austria is mentioned in nikonrumors update, As far as I have heard Nikon did not cancel the contract but its franchise partner - just recently got aware that repair facility is actually not run by Nikon itself was running in sever financial troubles and hat to stop business - repairs are sent to Germany actually, similar situation as we had some two decades ago)

[RobOK]

... I agree Nikon has to change -- not to be glitzy for the sake of it, but to be more customer-centric. What are the use cases day to day where (non-paid) photographers are deciding whether to bring a camera or a smart phone to a social outing and want images to move quickly from camera to phone to sharing. I am not saying that is true for all my photography, but i want that option of speed and flow for the times I want it. 

When I said Customer-centric, some of the replies were about customer service. I was thinking about the image flow and getting images off the camera. I guess snap bridge is improving so I’ll have to check that as well as other connection options with the Z6.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

I guess snap bridge is improving so I’ll have to check that as well as other connection options with the Z6.

Yes; it's worth a try. There is both improvement in the performance of the old cameras but the Z6/Z7 are said to have faster pairing and transfers. I sometimes use the D850's Snapbridge to get first impressions images to friends about something I'm shooting in the field and although it is slow, it's fun to be able to communicate nearly in real time. 

It's not only Nikon who have hiccups about effective use of cameras to create content for social media and sharing. Adobe has these mobile-based editing tools and cloud-based storage of images, and when I tried it it seemed very pleasant to use but I quickly ended up uninstalling it. I like the idea of having access to my photos from mobile devices anywhere, with the idea that edits are available immediately in the other devices. However, I found some issues. First, I have the images in my desktop computer as NEFs. If I want to send them to the cloud, and be able to edit them using desktop and mobile based tools, I first create a catalog in Lightroom Classic, import the images into the catalog and then synchronize with the cloud. Can I choose to upload images from multiple catalogs? No, I can't. So what happens when I upload the images is that LR creates another copy of the raw files in another directory (was it appdata, I don't remember) so now you have to have additional capacity in the internal drives for spare copies of all the images that are to be synchronized to the cloud. Then the images appear in the mobile applications. Already there are two things that I would consider impossible: not being able to work with multiple catalogs and the extra space for the copy of the raw images uploaded. I tested downloading the images from the cloud to Lightroom classic and some information was lost, I don't remember the details but I ended up frustrated and discarded the edits made on mobile and uninstalled the mobile applications. Maybe it has improved since? I am not motivated to try. Perhaps in 5 years I'll give it another try. It's not that I don't want fluid editing across platforms - that is valuable. But the implementation has to be sustainable in terms of preserving all the information of the original files and cannot make additional copies of raw files on local disc just to facilitate the cloud-based applications.

[RobOK]

It's not only Nikon who have hiccups about effective use of cameras to create content for social media and sharing. Adobe has these mobile-based editing tools and cloud-based storage of images, and when I tried it it seemed very pleasant to use but I quickly ended up uninstalling it. I like the idea of having access to my photos from mobile devices anywhere, with the idea that edits are available immediately in the other devices.
[...]
Maybe it has improved since? I am not motivated to try. Perhaps in 5 years I'll give it another try. It's not that I don't want fluid editing across platforms - that is valuable. But the implementation has to be sustainable in terms of preserving all the information of the original files and cannot make additional copies of raw files on local disc just to facilitate the cloud-based applications.

It has improved but you may well still not like it. Lightroom Mobile is really fantastic now. Consider using it even on its own.

Lightroom now has two ecosystems, their Classic which can sync (as you pointed out) only one catalog to the cloud. Lightroom CC, which they now call just Lightroom, refers to their newer Desktop, Web, and mobile apps.  You can ingest NEF into these (without file renaming I'm afraid) and the original NEFs go both into the Adobe cloud AND to your Classic synced catalog. I won't go into it more here, but I was heavily in a thread on the topic here: https://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/threads/workflow-advice-needed-cc-and-classic-with-multiple-compters.38956/

Towards being customer-centric, I think both Adobe and Nikon have the challenge of moving forward while staying backward compatibility. To stretch the analogy, Adobe went to Lightroom CC based on a whole new foundation with some rough linkage to the Classic, a hard move for them. Nikon went to Z mount with adaptability backwards, a new foundation. Arguably Nikon's spot was harder as it is physically manufactured things.

[Dario]

Long time Nikon users (30+ years). Relatively new here from a posting perspective. My take on Nikon is fairly negative as well for the following reason: Nikon is not doing much to help my older collection of lenses be functional on the Z bodies. I get that there's an adapter. It's functionally just an F mount for many of my lenses. Even the ancient D200 does more to support these lenses than the Z body + adapter.

I get that that Nikon needs to sell new lenses. And if I buy a Z body I'd undoubtedly get some new lenses. But if I have to buy new lenses to use a Z body, I have to question why I would not consider other options like Sony. What should be an obvious buying decision for me is now a question mark.

I have no issue with Thom. I approach his stuff from the point of view that his goal is to sell books and keep that in mind.

Great being back here. Appreciate all the great info you guys post.