Nikon Negativity

[Jack Dahlgren]

Long time Nikon users (30+ years). Relatively new here from a posting perspective. My take on Nikon is fairly negative as well for the following reason: Nikon is not doing much to help my older collection of lenses be functional on the Z bodies. I get that there's an adapter. It's functionally just an F mount for many of my lenses. Even the ancient D200 does more to support these lenses than the Z body + adapter.

I get that that Nikon needs to sell new lenses. And if I buy a Z body I'd undoubtedly get some new lenses. But if I have to buy new lenses to use a Z body, I have to question why I would not consider other options like Sony. What should be an obvious buying decision for me is now a question mark.

I have no issue with Thom. I approach his stuff from the point of view that his goal is to sell books and keep that in mind.

Great being back here. Appreciate all the great info you guys post.

My older collection (AIS and earlier) of lenses work better on Z6 than on D200 or Df. Focusing is Sooooo much easier and adding image stabilization is great.

[Roland Vink]

Maybe Nikon need another FTZ adapter which does away with the in-built aperture stop-down mechanism and replaces it with the AI follower (maybe a pre-AI linkage also). The adapter would give full functionality with electronic diaphragm (E) lenses, and stop-down metering on other lenses with an aperture ring. It would give better exif data for non-cpu lenses than the current adapter.

Ideally it would be nice not to have stop-down metering, especially for those who tend to use smaller apertures since the EVF will become noisy in low light, and with "permanent DoF preview" the DoF will become too large - focus peaking won't be able to distinguish "in-focus" from "nearly-in-focus". I'm not sure there is room in the adapter for the Ai-linkage and the auto-aperture-stop-down mechanism.

[Hugh_3170]

Nikon has a very bad habit indeed of issuing "hobbled" cameras without AI followers that provide less than full functionality with non-electronic lenses. 
It goes a long way back to their entry level electronic cameras such as their film SLRs (F60, F50, F55 etc)  as well as the first DSLRs (D100, D70, D70S, D40, D50,D90, D8-, D3xxx, D5xxx, D7500 and so on.........).

A Df approach is what is needed - a new FTZ adapter and in-camera firmware and menus providing the same lens compatibility that they offered with the Df (and even the F4 back in the film days).

Actually they could do a better lens compatibility job, if they wanted to,  with the current FTZ adapter if they offered camera firmware and menus to get the most out of the current cameras and adapter.  They don't even offer the little green focussing light (altough focus peaking and magnification does a more precise job I must concede).

Of course, I strongly suspect that I am dreaming!  It will just never happen under current Nikon ownership and management. 

Maybe Nikon need another FTZ adapter which does away with the in-built aperture stop-down mechanism and replaces it with the AI follower (maybe a pre-AI linkage also). The adapter would give full functionality with electronic diaphragm (E) lenses, and stop-down metering on other lenses with an aperture ring. It would give better exif data for non-cpu lenses than the current adapter.

Ideally it would be nice not to have stop-down metering, especially for those who tend to use smaller apertures since the EVF will become noisy in low light, and with "permanent DoF preview" the DoF will become too large - focus peaking won't be able to distinguish "in-focus" from "nearly-in-focus". I'm not sure there is room in the adapter for the Ai-linkage and the auto-aperture-stop-down mechanism.

[chambeshi]

Ideally there should be no need to discuss - let alone complain - about compatibility issues of the F-Nikkors with the Z System. AT the auspicious televised launch of the Z System (23 Aug 2018) in Tokyo, it did seem Nikon had delivered. As we know there is no Aperture reading in EXIF (ie no AI mechanism) and No AF with "Screwdriver" lenses.
The gripes persist on forums.

These gaps hit 2 groups of clients:
#1. The hobbyists and enthusiasts who enjoy adapting older lenses, not least Classic F-Nikon optics. They choose not to buy a Z MILC and stay with older DSLRs. No upgrades that could lead to also more sales of Z-Nikkors.... Loss to Nikon;

#2) Aspiring photographers on a budget. For this category, the camera is a big outlay and so a Z50 is affordable, but then there is the price of new modern lenses. If a FTZd was bundled with a Z MILC, then they could start off with Used F-Nikkors, and grow into Nikon over time. The alternative is the lack of compatibility sends them to another camera system.... Loss to Nikon

Earlier this year, I submitted a detailed document via official channels toward Tokyo. This is critical but aims to be constructive. The key issues are only ~25% of F-Nikkors are functionally compatible with the Z system; important AIS and AFD Nikkors are listed sold New, and there is a persisting investment in these older optics. Used especially. Even Nikon itself acknowledges the significance of this "Old Lens Revival". But will be very surprised if such feedback. I will post the transcript in following post... It leads to Point #3. Nikon has yet to honour its marketing claims. This is poor for such a traditional company, who launched its auspicious new camera system on the occasion of its Centenary :-(

Nikon has a very bad habit indeed of issuing "hobbled" cameras without AI followers that provide less than full functionality with non-electronic lenses. 
It goes a long way back to their entry level electronic cameras such as their film SLRs (F60, F50, F55 etc)  as well as the first DSLRs (D100, D70, D70S, D40, D50,D90, D8-, D3xxx, D5xxx, D7500 and so on.........).

A Df approach is what is needed - a new FTZ adapter and in-camera firmware and menus providing the same lens compatibility that they offered with the Df (and even the F4 back in the film days).

Actually they could do a better lens compatibility job, if they wanted to,  with the current FTZ adapter if they offered camera firmware and menus to get the most out of the current cameras and adapter.  They don't even offer the little green focussing light (altough focus peaking and magnification does a more precise job I must concede).

Of course, I strongly suspect that I am dreaming!  It will just never happen under current Nikon ownership and management. 

[chambeshi]

Submitted to Nikon April 2019

SUBJECT : Compatibility of F-Nikkor Optics with the Nikon Z System

When can we expect Nikon to honour marketing statements, and upgrade the FTZ adapter to enable:

1. Full support of AE with AI and AIS F-Nikkors on the Z System?

2. An acceptable autofocus on System Z cameras with "screwdriver" F-Nikkors including many AFD lenses, such as the superb Defocus-Control Nikkors, 200 f4AFD and 180 f2.8AFD?
Thanks to the built-in motor, the autofocus on D lenses works properly on the D850 and similar DSLRs. The ideal FTZd (to coin a term) needs a built-in focusing motor together with a functional Aperture-Indexing mechanism. There is a significant cohort of Nikon Owners, who will not hesitate to buy such an adapter for their Z Nikon cameras. As I explicate below, the FTZd will appeal to first time buyers too.

As we read, the marketing copy emphasizes:
 “Great glass endures. That's why Nikon cameras—from the Nikon F in 1959 all the way to D850—have remained compatible with nearly all F-mount NIKKOR lenses. Why would things be any different with the Nikon Z? The Mount Adapter FTZ lets you keep shooting the lenses you know and love while also gaining the benefits of the new Z system. The legacy of compatibility continues.

And reading further:
 “…So many possibilities.
Compatible with a huge selection of NIKKOR lenses.
The Mount Adapter FTZ works with approx. 360 lenses in total, 90 of which are AF-S, AF-P or AF-I type and have full AF/AE capability.”

More specifically, we read: “Nikon’s new mount system plays an essential role in the realization of this unprecedented imaging system. What’s more, the Mount Adapter FTZ allows long-time Nikon users to continue utilizing their existing NIKKOR F lenses seamlessly with the new system. Shooting with AE is enabled with a total of approx. 360 types of NIKKOR F lens from AI type onwards, while shooting with AF/AE is available with 93 types of AF-P/AF-S/AF-I lenses, ensuring the same operation as with the new Nikon mirrorless camera system.”
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gpU-PYm90DZMEpiBfbO3-FJzqncadCQDB7qgnqlp_FU1k8_9LXUEfLw9PlLkA==/Misc/NIKKOR-Z-Brochure.pdf

Only 25% of F-Nikkors are Z Compatible : The total given of 360 F-Nikkors must be an underestimate. For how many pre-AI lenses (ie older models) are adapted to Auto-Index on Nikon cameras? Moreover, is not “Shooting with AE is enabled with a total of approx. 360 types of NIKKOR F lens from AI type onwards” stretching the scope of an advertising slogan? At least 75% of these lenses do NOT register the aperture setting in the EXIF fields of a Z6 nor Z7 camera. This is infuriating in my experience. In light of the F-Mount legacy maintained into the higher level DSLR models, compatibility of only 25% (likely less) of F-Nikkors is a poor show in the support of acceptable functionality on Z Mirrorless cameras.

The above problems with the FTZ adapter continue to fan heated discussion on Online Photography Forums – two are Digital Photography Review and Fred Miranda. There can be no excuses here. Should you hasten to reply that these lenses are older pre-AFS models, there are dedicated Nikon agencies who still sell 8 AIS lenses as New, and no less than 11 AFD models. We must single out the two Defocus Nikkors – the 105 f2AFD and 135 f2AFD. These are unique optics not updated to any G or E portrait prime lens. There are many more Classic Nikkors: the 28 f2.8AIS, 55 f2.8AIS, 85 f1.4AFD and 105 f2.5AIS are four of my great favourites.
See: https://www.graysofwestminster.co.uk/products/lenses-manual.php and https://www.graysofwestminster.co.uk/products/digital.php

The Strategic Fulcrum : Nearly all these AIS and AFD F-Nikkors are in many cases unique and unavailable in G or E mounts (without switching to a Sigma or Tamron). Besides the bonuses of IBIS, Focus peaking, and VR, AF support on the Z6, or Z7 will be a big help to anchor swift focusing with AFD lenses, there are many Nikon owners who treasure these Classic Nikkors for their unique character in rendering the image. And do not overlook how many videographers still favour Classic Nikkors as the optics of choice; is not the video is market a focus of the Z system? The venerable, if not iconic, status of these Nikkors is one manifest reason why complaints will persist against dropping compatibility off the FTZ.

May I suggest Nikon marketing read through the discussion threads on online Forums - with due attention. It can be argued these posters can only represent a minority of the global population of Nikon owners of pre-AFS F-Nikkor lenses. Dare I suggest certain of these posts point out the strategic advantages to Nikon to prioritize closing the gaps in F-Nikkor compatibility? Beyond Nikon honouring the marketing slogans [viz. “Shooting with AE is enabled with a total of approx. 360 types of NIKKOR F lens from AI type onwards”] there are obvious strategic benefits to expand its customer base. For one, a fully functional FTZ adapter will give the leverage to emerging photographers to buy their first Z Mirrorless camera, because the FTZd will enable them to start with affordable Used F-Nikkors; as a first step into the Greater Nikon Ecosystem. These Classic Nikkors are the first critical step: the functional lens system they can grow, given time. Yes, they may not even buy a system Z kit lens, but the strategic benefit hinges on growing the percentage of younger buyers of a Z-Mount Nikon camera. For many, their purchase is the cusp of an investment. They will expand it to own Z-Mount optics.
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62323663
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61761736

This cadre of potential Nikon customers is exemplified by the students, on tight budgets, who buy into a Z Nikon MILC as their first proper camera, but they then struggle to afford new lenses. It would be a serious mistake to dismiss students and younger ranks as low spenders. Consider, given time, how many of these owners of a Z MILC will become higher income earners? Once employed, a notable percentage will fulfil their aspirations, and build up the Nikon system they bought into earlier (as a teenager, or thanks to an anniversary gift, or inheritance etc). Consider the alternatives open to aspiring photographers - buy a Canon  or Sony kit, and get locked into that lens mount.

If the strategy is to set constraints: thus to try and force committed Nikon owners to buy G or E Nikkors, then please rethink the tactics very, very carefully. Many customers see through the obvious. In response, one hears some are selling up their older Nikon gear for new Canon or Sony etc. For not all are heavily invested in current Nikkor optics. In my case, these include 58 f1.4G, 70-200 f2.8E, 300 PF, 400 f2.8E, 500 PF, and all 3 teleconverters (to itemize eight optics). As the situation stands, I persist with the Nikon system begun in 1984, which I know and grown to trust. Thus, I also rely on AIS Micro-Nikkors, and keep shooting my other AI, AIS and AFD lenses. The latter make up a total of 12 optics; I keep at least 2 of these in active use since 1988. My list of current equipment is registered with my Nikon UK account.

Great Glass Endures : Nikon’s legacy of “Retro-Compatibility” has persisted with the top range DSLRs (D850, D5 and others), which maintain F-Mount compatibility. The lapse of support of acceptable functionality since the introduction of the Z system impinges on customer trust. The current FTZ undermines potential. It sours the user experience with these superb cameras. Effectively, Nikon has discarded practicable support of no less than 75% of the capable F-Nikkor optics, which remain fully functional on the top-tier DSLRs. Support of less than 25% F-Nikkors is nothing to be proud of. For their loyalty, committed Nikon owners deserve better reciprocal support.

So we should also think long and hard about the ‘Old Lens Revival’, as its aptly termed by Nikon’s own Optical Maestro, Mr Haruo Sato [1]. He describes how this new market has its own momentum, such that certain Classics now cost more, and are becoming harder to find - “Over the past few years, we have seen the revival of one old lens after another. I think that the primary reason for this is the fact that mirrorless cameras support mount adapters that allow users to play with a wide variety of lenses. Photographers are taking a new look at their old lenses, and rediscovering the soul that still resides in these once dead-stocked lenses. This is a wonderful thing. Many F-mount lenses especially have an incredibly long life if not discarded, enabling users to enjoy unique differences in their rendering characteristics.”

Great Glass endures, definitely. Surely, it is Nikon’s own Z cameras we should see spearheading ‘the revival of one old lens after another’? Many of us Nikon owners sincerely hope you close this glaring gap in FTZ compatibility with the Z Cameras. In today’s digital imaging market, the strictures and challenges of selling Interchangeable Camera systems demands exploiting the tiniest of strategic advantages. F-Mount compatibility has set Nikon apart since 1959. Has Nikon now dismissed this unique strategic strength? The choice rests with Nikon. Although we rely on the latest advances in optical and imaging technology in the newest Nikon cameras and lenses, quite a few of us are fiercely proud of our collections of Classic Nikkors! The current situation should not undermine the excellence of Nikon’s emerging flagship – the Z System. Please embrace and extend this unique opportunity. Many of us aspire to see Nikon’s status not only endure but grow.

[1] The Thousand and One Nights No.65  https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0065/index.htm

[Dario]

My older collection (AIS and earlier) of lenses work better on Z6 than on D200 or Df. Focusing is Sooooo much easier and adding image stabilization is great.

Thanks for this perspective. There clearly are some positives. And I agree getting VR is nice. But no recognition of the lens/exif data and no diaphragm control are big issues for me. I really have to try the camera to know good or bad focusing is with AI lenses. Of all the features I want AF/AF-D auto-focus is least important to me. I can see why Nikon would want to leave this out of the FTZ for cost and size.

Ideally there should be no need to discuss - let alone complain - about compatibility issues of the F-Nikkors with the Z System. AT the auspicious televised launch of the Z System (23 Aug 2018) in Tokyo, it did seem Nikon had delivered. As we know there is no Aperture reading in EXIF (ie no AI mechanism) and No AF with "Screwdriver" lenses.
The gripes persist on forums.

These gaps hit 2 groups of clients:
#1. The hobbyists and enthusiasts who enjoy adapting older lenses, not least Classic F-Nikon optics. They choose not to buy a Z MILC and stay with older DSLRs. No upgrades that could lead to also more sales of Z-Nikkors.... Loss to Nikon;

#2) Aspiring photographers on a budget. For this category, the camera is a big outlay and so a Z50 is affordable, but then there is the price of new modern lenses. If a FTZd was bundled with a Z MILC, then they could start off with Used F-Nikkors, and grow into Nikon over time. The alternative is the lack of compatibility sends them to another camera system.... Loss to Nikon

Earlier this year, I submitted a detailed document via official channels toward Tokyo. This is critical but aims to be constructive. The key issues are only ~25% of F-Nikkors are functionally compatible with the Z system; important AIS and AFD Nikkors are listed sold New, and there is a persisting investment in these older optics. Used especially. Even Nikon itself acknowledges the significance of this "Old Lens Revival". But will be very surprised if such feedback. I will post the transcript in following post... It leads to Point #3. Nikon has yet to honour its marketing claims. This is poor for such a traditional company, who launched its auspicious new camera system on the occasion of its Centenary :-(

Thanks much for this and for posting your letter to Nikon. You're way ahead of me on this and I appreciate you sharing.

[Erik Lund]

I see the Nikon Z as a transition and for some an addition camera line to the F.
It will of course take many years to evolve into a complete system and obviously will not be a 100% or 1 to 1 transition since photography has evolved a lot,,, film to digital, high resolution and ISO etc. and the fact that many especial long tele lenses has zero advantage of the Z mount.Also most can definitely keep their DSLR F mount while slowly adding new Z lenses over the next decades Just like when F mount was introduced - There was not 350 F mount lenses released during the launch! 
Why not just enjoy the new Z system as an addition to the F
Surly everybody know that marketing is,,, not flawless in any business,,,

[Jack Dahlgren]

Thanks for this perspective. There clearly are some positives. And I agree getting VR is nice. But no recognition of the lens/exif data and no diaphragm control are big issues for me. I really have to try the camera to know good or bad focusing is with AI lenses. Of all the features I want AF/AF-D auto-focus is least important to me. I can see why Nikon would want to leave this out of the FTZ for cost and size.
Thanks much for this and for posting your letter to Nikon. You're way ahead of me on this and I appreciate you sharing.

Have we really gone so far that not being able to know the aperture at which a photo was shot is “infuriating” or is a “big issue”?
For most of the working life of pre-AI and AI lenses there was no such thing as EXIF. I do not think I’ve ever checked aperture in EXIF files. I can think of some cases where it might be interesting, but none where it is essential. Maybe I’m doing it wrong.

Controlling the aperture is a different thing. It is somewhat annoying to not be able to directly view it while photographing. However, the ability to always be in preview mode rather than having the lens at widest aperture while focusing more than makes up for it, at least in my opinion. My first Nikon was an FG with no aperture preview control so you could not be certain that what you saw in the viewfinder had the correct depth of field. Then I used view cameras which you could see exactly what you would get, but if you stopped down far enough, the image could be quite dim. Mirrorless makes all of that preview routine go away. It is incredible if you ask me. Turn the focus ring to get subject in focus. Turn the aperture ring until you have DOF you want. Press viewfinder magnification button if you want absolutely precise focus.

All I can say is that Z6 is far better with AI and pre-AI lenses than the Df or any film camera. Sure it is not perfect, but it is better in the ways that really matter to me.

[Bill Mellen]

Have we really gone so far that not being able to know the aperture at which a photo was shot is “infuriating” or is a “big issue”?
For most of the working life of pre-AI and AI lenses there was no such thing as EXIF. I do not think I’ve ever checked aperture in EXIF files. I can think of some cases where it might be interesting, but none where it is essential. Maybe I’m doing it wrong.

Controlling the aperture is a different thing. It is somewhat annoying to not be able to directly view it while photographing. However, the ability to always be in preview mode rather than having the lens at widest aperture while focusing more than makes up for it, at least in my opinion. My first Nikon was an FG with no aperture preview control so you could not be certain that what you saw in the viewfinder had the correct depth of field. Then I used view cameras which you could see exactly what you would get, but if you stopped down far enough, the image could be quite dim. Mirrorless makes all of that preview routine go away. It is incredible if you ask me. Turn the focus ring to get subject in focus. Turn the aperture ring until you have DOF you want. Press viewfinder magnification button if you want absolutely precise focus.

All I can say is that Z6 is far better with AI and pre-AI lenses than the Df or any film camera. Sure it is not perfect, but it is better in the ways that really matter to me.

I completely agree with you Jack! I was just thinking the same thing when I read your post. I do not have a single negative or slide with EXIF information on it.  I think we have all become a bit spoiled with these nice new cameras.

When it comes to screwdriver AF lenses, someone might figure out how to make an adapter that works.  I am guessing there is a market for it, but probably not as big as a lot of people imagine.

[tommiejeep]

Jack and Bill, I am with you.    There are many things I want from my cameras which are much more important than EXIF data.   I am still paring down my lens collection but that is determined by their use and not MF/AF/EXIF.   What I would like is for lenses, on dumb adapters registered in the non-CPU list to show me the FL, but having shot Sony with many lenses on dumb adapters,  I can live without it.   So far I have not come across any problem with my Z6 that I did not expect.   I am not too sure that I will buy another camera of any type/brand in the future.  I am very interested in a possible rumoured D780.   If I cannot get the shot with one of my various cameras then it is me that is the problem.   New cameras are almost always fun but very few have ever made me better.   The biggest single change for me has been the ability to shoot totally silent but even that has some problems.   Over time I have found my own workarounds for most of the things that troubled me with MILCs'.   I still prefer OVF for some shooting.
Edit: I would most likely not buy an adapter just to have AF on my 85 1.4D or DC105 f2D (or others) .
Cheers,

[Dario]

Have we really gone so far that not being able to know the aperture at which a photo was shot is “infuriating” or is a “big issue”?
For most of the working life of pre-AI and AI lenses there was no such thing as EXIF. I do not think I’ve ever checked aperture in EXIF files. I can think of some cases where it might be interesting, but none where it is essential. Maybe I’m doing it wrong.

Controlling the aperture is a different thing. It is somewhat annoying to not be able to directly view it while photographing. However, the ability to always be in preview mode rather than having the lens at widest aperture while focusing more than makes up for it, at least in my opinion. My first Nikon was an FG with no aperture preview control so you could not be certain that what you saw in the viewfinder had the correct depth of field. Then I used view cameras which you could see exactly what you would get, but if you stopped down far enough, the image could be quite dim. Mirrorless makes all of that preview routine go away. It is incredible if you ask me. Turn the focus ring to get subject in focus. Turn the aperture ring until you have DOF you want. Press viewfinder magnification button if you want absolutely precise focus.

All I can say is that Z6 is far better with AI and pre-AI lenses than the Df or any film camera. Sure it is not perfect, but it is better in the ways that really matter to me.

I'll respectfully disagree. I could live without knowing the F-stop used for a given photo. I find it harder not knowing which lens was used. I find this particularly useful for macro work. The argument that we didn't used to have this information doesn't make sense to me. That's like saying people got buy without stoves for 200,000 years so we don't really need them. Why not just shoot film, since all of us over a certain age got by with it? These are features I've grown accustomed to having and appreciate.

Regarding stopping down, every Nikon camera I've owned had a stop-down preview. I don't doubt there have been Nikons without it, but it's a feature it's hard for me to imagine not having. Are you saying that always being in f-stop preview mode is a benefit? This seems like a bit of a stretch.

The Z cameras with my current lenses feel like a big step backward for me. As I said before, I'm I'm going to need to buy new lenses, I have no reason to stay with Nikon. It doesn't mean I won't. It does mean it makes sense for me to see what else is out there. Given my investment in Nikon glass buying a Nikon body has always previously been a no-brainer for me.

I completely agree with you Jack! I was just thinking the same thing when I read your post. I do not have a single negative or slide with EXIF information on it.  I think we have all become a bit spoiled with these nice new cameras.

When it comes to screwdriver AF lenses, someone might figure out how to make an adapter that works.  I am guessing there is a market for it, but probably not as big as a lot of people imagine.

We all have different preferences. The lack of a motor for AF lenses is not something I'm concerned about. I'd use it if it were offered. I don't mind having to manually focus my non-AF-S lenses.

[Bill Mellen]

...I could live without knowing the F-stop used for a given photo. I find it harder not knowing which lens was used. I find this particularly useful for macro work ...

At least, the Z6 and Z7 both allow you to store up to 20 Non-CPU Lens Data Entries.  You enter the Focal Length and Max Aperture of the lens in the list and select the appropriate one when you mount the lens.  The focal length and max aperture are stored in the image's EXIF data.  Not quite as nice as a chipped lens, but better than nothing.

[Jack Dahlgren]

I'll respectfully disagree. I could live without knowing the F-stop used for a given photo. I find it harder not knowing which lens was used. I find this particularly useful for macro work. The argument that we didn't used to have this information doesn't make sense to me. That's like saying people got buy without stoves for 200,000 years so we don't really need them. Why not just shoot film, since all of us over a certain age got by with it? These are features I've grown accustomed to having and appreciate.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Z cameras have 20 spots to register non-cpu lenses. Df has 10 as did many others. You have more functionality here, not less.

Regarding stopping down, every Nikon camera I've owned had a stop-down preview. I don't doubt there have been Nikons without it, but it's a feature it's hard for me to imagine not having. Are you saying that always being in f-stop preview mode is a benefit? This seems like a bit of a stretch.

I am saying that always being able to see what your image will look like is a benefit. How could it not be? You even state that it is hard to imagine not having. The old way where you had to press a button was because of limitations of the optical viewfinder, not because it was better.

The Z cameras with my current lenses feel like a big step backward for me.
We all have different preferences. The lack of a motor for AF lenses is not something I'm concerned about. I'd use it if it were offered. I don't mind having to manually focus my non-AF-S lenses.

We certainly do have different preferences. For me the Z6 is a huge step forward with manual focus lenses. How long have you been shooting with a Z camera? It takes some time to get used to the differences.

[Dario]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Z cameras have 20 spots to register non-cpu lenses. Df has 10 as did many others. You have more functionality here, not less.
I am saying that always being able to see what your image will look like is a benefit. How could it not be? You even state that it is hard to imagine not having. The old way where you had to press a button was because of limitations of the optical viewfinder, not because it was better.
We certainly do have different preferences. For me the Z6 is a huge step forward with manual focus lenses. How long have you been shooting with a Z camera? It takes some time to get used to the differences.

Because it's harder to see and harder to focus. Not having the lens wide open before taking the shot is certainly not a benefit for me.

I don't have have a Z camera.

[Jack Dahlgren]

Because it's harder to see and harder to focus. Not having the lens wide open before taking the shot is certainly not a benefit for me.

I don't have have a Z camera.

No, it is actually easier to see, and easier to focus. You have to try it. I’ve been using mine for a year now. I would not go back.