Author Topic: Nikon D5  (Read 97561 times)

Akira

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #330 on: March 14, 2016, 13:57:19 »
Personally I don't dislike the shutter sound.  Rather I like the shutter sounds of Nikon cameras in general better than those of other brands.  Basically I feel the same way as Almass does.

I just don't think that Q mode makes as much sense as the designers intended.
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Jan Anne

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #331 on: March 14, 2016, 14:06:54 »
Thats why I also don't use silent mode on the Sony's by default, but I do use the electronic first curtain which gives me nice damped mechanical shutter sound :)
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #332 on: March 14, 2016, 14:13:51 »
I wasn't talking about quiet mode :)

Quiet mode specfically slows down the components of the release cycle  (mirror up, aperture closing, shutter open, shutter closed, aperture open, mirror down) so you get less intense sound but the "dead time" of the AF system between shots increases, thus your  continuous focusing on moving subjects works less well. In my opinion, impairing the AF performance of an action camera to reduce the sound intensity doesn't make sense, unless it is for a specific situation (such as a concert) where AF tracking performance is less critical since the subject moves less fast, and for this situation they offer the quiet and silent modes.

If I use a smaller than maximum but still continuous fps rate in a fast camera, I do it precisely for one reason and one reason only: to get better a higher AF keeper rate, by giving the AF system more time between shots to do its thing. Slowing down the release cycle would counter this goal. I am normally a single shot shooter, and one of the reasons I never liked high fps on the D3 was that it couldn't really keep the focus on the subject in an approaching subject scenario at a wide aperture, if I used 9fps. By using a lower 5fps or 7fps rate the rate of success increased a lot, and this is because the AF system had enough time with the mirror down between shots, to keep the AF sufficiently on the target. I believe the AF system continues to focus even while the mirror is up but it gets no data on the subject distance so it basically is operating under the assumption that the movement is constant velocity or the acceleration is constant. If the movement changes velocity in an unpredictable way then the way to improve AF results is to speed up the mirror movement so that the mirror up time is as short as possible. Shorter mirror up time is one thing I recall Nikon advertised for the D4s already, so I have high hopes the D5 will be similar or better. I'm much more interested in the AF performance than high fps rate actually, as I prefer to time my shots manually except in unusual circumstances.

In a camera like the D810 the camera can be quieter because the main intended application is not fast action (but the highest resolution and image quality at low to mid ISO), so they emphasized low vibrations in the design, and the side effect of that is quieter operation.  I suppose they could put in a semi-quiet mode in the D5 where things are slowed down a bit (not as much as in quiet mode) but then it would be really difficult for photographers to adopt to the effects of the changing settings depending on fps rate selected. I think most sports photographers would primarily elect to get the best AF rather than ever so slightly quieter operation.  For wildlife photographers the D500 may be the better choice as the mirror and shutter are smaller and you get more pixels on the subject with the same lens. The D500 felt very impressive in the hand and the release cycle is quieter so perhaps it's the better choice for daytime wildlife photographers. DX is quite elegant for telephoto work in my opinion.

In a hide I would expect that using a blimp would be possible, with the lens on tripod. This would probably be a less distractive approach to the animals than shooting in the open in any case.

bjornthun

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #333 on: March 14, 2016, 14:37:52 »
Would it help to use liveview and electronic first shutter curtain? That would however limit the AF to contrast detection.

Jan Anne

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #334 on: March 14, 2016, 14:44:25 »
The D500 only allows the use of the electronic front curtain in MUP mode, not sure if the MUP mode on the D5 / D500 still involves any mirror movements. Would be nice to shoot these cameras as a mirrorless camera when needed.

Electronic front-curtain shutter minimizes internal mechanical vibrations
When you want to reduce camera blur as much as possible, for instance when shooting landscapes or astrophotography with a telephoto lens, the electronic front-curtain shutter (only selectable in MUP mode) can be used to minimize mechanical vibration. By making the camera’s image sensor act as the front curtain of the focal-plane shutter, the camera eliminates vibrations caused by movement of the mechanical front curtain. Used in live view photography, where there is also no reflex mirror movement, the benefits are even more noticeable.

Note: When using the electronic front-curtain shutter, the fastest shutter speed available is 1/2000 s, and the highest sensitivity available is ISO 51200.
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bjornthun

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #335 on: March 14, 2016, 16:20:44 »
OSPDAF, EFCS and an attachable EVF or a hybrid EVF/OVF would have done trick.

I interpret the text to maybe say that EFCS is available in liveview mode as well. I think Nikon got rid of the mirror up and down cycle in the LV mode of the D800. If memory serves both the D300 and D700 were plagued by this.

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #336 on: March 14, 2016, 17:43:21 »
EFCS should be available in LV mode but is probably tied to M-UP drive mode (as in the D810), requiring two presses of the remote. I think Nikon is trying to make EFCS use very deliberate as it can apparently cause some issues so the default is the fully mechanical shutter. Nikon reports uneven exposure with fast shutter speeds using PC-E lenses with EFCS active and movements applied. I haven't noticed these but I haven't been looking for the effect, either. Also it may cause rolling shutter effects.

However EFCS is not by itself silent, there is the sound of the rear curtain closing. A silent mode (to be truly silent) would require keeping the aperture in the stopped down position and a fully  electronic shutter. It will be interesting to see what Nikon has come up with. With live view, there may be some additional delays (paradoxically enough). The D800 was super slow to recover from a shot made in LV mode as it wrote everything to card before another shot could be taken. The D810 and D750 do not have this problem, they can do continous high speed in LV mode thankfully.

pluton

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #337 on: March 14, 2016, 18:10:14 »
My understanding is that with the D810, Nikon went to a mirror driven by stepper motor, which contributed to the reduction of vibration and noise.  Canon also is using motors in their newest 5D iterations, so may we assume that the new Nikons (D5, D500) also use the new, quieter mechanism?
FYI: For photographers that shoot on film and TV sets, while the action is being recorded/transmitted, using a blimp has been a way of life for many decades. 
That's changing now, with increasing numbers of unit photographers using Sony A7 or Fujifilm XT-1 cams, and employing full electronic shutter for those periods where absolute silence(noise below the ability of the audio equipment to record) is required.

Keith B., Santa Monica, CA, USA

Akira

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #338 on: March 14, 2016, 19:40:04 »
The full electronic shutter of the mirrorless cameras are indeed perfectly silent, but this is only when the lens is used wide open or with the adapted manual focus lenses.  The actuation of the aperture makes audible noise in a very quiet situation.  I don't know this can be tolerated in the film and/or broadcast industries, but the genuine lenses do make noises, ironically.
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bjornthun

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #339 on: March 14, 2016, 19:49:08 »
The full electronic shutter of the mirrorless cameras are indeed perfectly silent, but this is only when the lens is used wide open or with the adapted manual focus lenses.  The actuation of the aperture makes audible noise in a very quiet situation.  I don't know this can be tolerated in the film and/or broadcast industries, but the genuine lenses do make noises, ironically.
Zeiss Loxia E mount lenses offers de-clickable aperture with stopped down metering, so they will be perfectly silent. In practice some lenses will be inaudible and some not, so a case by case testing may be required to determine suitability of lenses with electromagnetically controlled aperture. Olympus claims that they have "MSC", movie and stills compatible lenses.

Akira

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #340 on: March 14, 2016, 19:54:56 »
I used M Zuiko 25/1.8 on E-M5 MkII.  It made a quite pronounced aperture noise.  Panasonic 25/1.7 made similar sound.  Apparently Panasonic cameras move the aperture whenever necessary in order to adjust the brightness of the live view image, which also made small click noises.

I only used 16/2.8, Zeiss 24/1.8 and 16-50 kit zoom among the genuine E mount lenses.  I don't remember if their aperture made audible noise.  However, the focusing of 24/1.8 and zooming of kit zoom made, although not that loud, quite unsophisticated mechanical noise.  The same went with RX1R in this regard.
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Roland Vink

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #341 on: March 14, 2016, 20:18:35 »
Quiet mode specfically slows down the components of the release cycle  ...
Does quiet mode also reduce the amount of camera shake? I wonder if it might be useful for hand-held shooting when VR is not available or desirable.

Akira

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #342 on: March 14, 2016, 20:22:06 »
It does reduce the mirror slap to some extent.
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Jan Anne

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #343 on: March 14, 2016, 20:45:31 »
With MUP or Live View in combination with the electronic first curtain there's no mechanical movement before an image is taken, a real boon with long lenses and slow shutter speeds.
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Akira

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Re: Nikon D5
« Reply #344 on: March 14, 2016, 20:51:25 »
With MUP or Live View in combination with the electronic first curtain there's no mechanical movement before an image is taken, a real boon with long lenses and slow shutter speeds.

Yes, I would use the live view (even if the electronic first curtain is not available) rather than Q mode, because the critical focusing in the magnified live view will be necessary in such cases.

Also, an IR remote is very handy in such cases.  I wonder why Nikon has eliminated such a handy and trouble-free solution (unlike wifi) from the high-end models and Nikon 1 series.
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