Author Topic: Nikon NX studio  (Read 10470 times)

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2021, 23:46:39 »
Now I realized that after giving a rating, if I wait long enough, it will let me continue moving to other images with arrow keys, there is just a delay of several seconds which I must wait before attempting to move beyond the next image. Not a bug, just slow software. But the raw conversion seems to be happening at OK speed in NX Studio, so that part I'm quite happy with. Anyway, this observation will help me avoid frustration. I am just used to key presses being remembered so I can type as fast as I want, but this is not the case here.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2021, 02:33:21 »
... Not a bug, just slow software. ...

I used to have deathly slow response from Capture NX-D. Lately it's been much better. I don't know why. I tried the following and saw no change, probably no need. I may have tweaked this setting and forgot about it. Anyway I think it's worth a try. This has something to do with memory compression.

Nikon Gear...

Possible Speedup for Capture NX-D on Windows 10...

Flickr...

Helpful Hint Improve Speed of Processing/Rendering when using
Capture NX-D (may work for Photoshop as well)


Dave

---

On occasion I've found locating the Capture NX-D cache files and deleting them helps when CNX-D is acting strangely. The cache files can be deleted from inside Preference. Sometimes that helps, sometimes opening the cache folder and manually deleting everything inside it is required. I think this will work for NX Studio as well. I quit CNX-D. Delete the cache but do not empty the Recycle/Trash until I'm sure CNX-D is working correctly again. Again I believe this can fix things in NX Studio if the cache gets corrupted. In all cases the cache files are recreated as needed.

I've had problems with Photoshop where the preference get corrupted and have to be deleted. I learned to backup my PS preference so I can restore them (over-write the corrupted prefernces) to correct problems. If the PS preferences are deleted PS will create new default preference.

Dave

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MFloyd

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2021, 03:05:43 »
Although I discontinued to use Nikon software for years now, in favor of Lr/Ps; I still install the latest versions, mainly to check / verify some Nikon related parameters eg focus points. I’m running this on the latest Mac OS Big Sur release, without any apparent bugs or speed problems .  :)
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2021, 10:07:55 »
Although I discontinued to use Nikon software for years now, in favor of Lr/Ps; I still install the latest versions, mainly to check / verify some Nikon related parameters eg focus points. I’m running this on the latest Mac OS Big Sur release, without any apparent bugs or speed problems .  :)

The speed problem that I have is just that when I rate images (I typically give five stars if it is a really good image, four if it may be somehow useful but is imperfect) I want to type the rating and move to the next image to be rated really quickly. In NX Studio, after I have pressed the digit key corresponding to the rating, I can move to the next image immediately using arrow keys, but if I want to skip giving that a rating, then moving to the next-next image doesn't work immediately, I have to wait 3-5 seconds before it lets me go there. If I am patient enough, no problem. But I'd like to be able to do this very quickly (i.e as quickly as I can type). Otherwise the NX Studio works well on my system. Export (raw conversion and writing to TIFF file) takes maybe 3 seconds.

I can try the trick David proposed to see if that affects the performance.

arthurking83

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2021, 11:48:46 »
Nikon can do so much more with their Picture Controls .. quite frustrating in a way. And more so because it just oozes incompetence from the folks that make the choices that this or that software is now their new push.

Does anyone know, or have any hint of who is actually developing Nikon's recent software? .. anyhow doesn't matter, if they just outsourced it to a crew that knows how to make software .. and then listen to some of the feedback!
With the colour reversal comment .. it was so easy in CNX2 to adjust the tone curve to colour reverse the negative, save that job and use it to batch edit any other negatives I'd digitized.
In the utility, you can reverse luminance, just not colour tones. I can't imagine why they'd create such a limitation. Then(as they did back in the D3 - D300 era camera period) .. set up a website dedicated to Picture Control again where you can download Picture Controls, and make it a community based site where people can create and share their own efforts. If colour editing was incorporated into the tone curve variables, it would allow for the ability to reverse negatives .. thus negating the need for the colour negative entry in the D850's menu .. and only in jpg!!??

Yes definitely not free, but if Nikon sold 1 million ILCs in a year, that cost burden on the camera may only be one millionth of a cent!  ;D .. it seems to be approximately the amount that Nikon seem to invest in some of their recent software!
I stopped using CNX-D as soon as I tried Studio for the first time.
CNX-D on my 7 year old desktop was slow, and they never updated the font sized well enough for a 4K monitor(and not at all in ViewNXi, that I ever saw).
As I still cling to D800 and earlier cameras for now, CNX2 was still enough for me when I did get to take a photo, and most times VNX2 was enough, with a tweak to picture control/WB/exp/highlight/shadow .. that usually sufficed for a bit.

I don't doubt that Studio will progress like Nikon's other software ended up doing so.
I recall the beta versions of CNX-D operated very nicely on this old box .. then came the official releases and lacked pretty much every editing tool you got used too, and slow and buggy.
In the end for me it was just slow.

Øivind! .. awesome reminder .. thanks. Also must remember to change the link to it in Transfer, as I have transfer set up to open VNX2 upon completion of upload.

Illka, the other weird happening with ratings in Studio that I see pretty much all the time: I have every image that I deem to be worth saving 'rated' in some way, numbers or stars, as has been Nikon's method since day dot.
Up to CNX-D and VNXi, all those ratings were saved in the maker section of the exif.. ie. in the NEF.
Why Studio can't see (pretty much) most of those ratings across so many images .. strange indeed.
It's random too tho, some come up with a rating .. most don't.
Also, whatever Nikon's new method of embedding into the original file means .. doesn't appear to be the same as what it used too mean.
Any rating made in Studio will not appear in previous software that I've seen. That is their notion of having embedded the saved edit/info into the original file has changed from previous years.
I just re-installed CNX-D to confirm this too. So it seems that the rating system, at least, in Studio is a bit flaky.

In VNX2(sometimes CNX-D) any rating and keyword(into ITPC) is saved into the image itself(NEF, I don't shoot jpg).
I use a very old .. laughably so! .. Microsoft program from about 100 years ... Photo Gallery. It shows me that ITPC info, and catalogs it for me too(bit of a help, but not vital). Photo Gallery(no longer available) work with Windows itself, and in combination with the Nikon's codec, Windows also understands this keyword/tagged info too. So in effect, my 'cataloging sytem' is Windows' indexing/searching. ie. negates the need for any catalog system.
Only 'downside' in terms of loss of the 'database' is really, only if I lose a file itself. The database itself is not important, so if I reinstall Windows, yeah, I need to rebuild the 'database' but Windows is continually updating it's database anyhow .. and it doesn't take long either.
This system works for me if i ever need to find an image .. just type it in Windows search.

Anyhow, In CNX-D(and VNX-i) even tho they only use sidecar file systems for saving any edits .. they still respected the keywording and rating I gave any file via VNX2(mainly) and sometimes in CNX2, if I forgot too in VNX2.
This is pretty much my #1 reason for using VNX2. Any keyword entered into the edit, is saved in the NEF .. and any image that opens this NEF will also see this keywording.

Note: the point of this info is not about my 'database' system .. it works brilliantly and this is my 'vice' or prejudice .. for now I need nothing else.
So CNX-D and VNX-i were really of no use to me. VNX2 was really my main go too software. I had hoped that Studio could replace VNX2 .. eg. if I get myself a newer model camera .. and Studio did indeed save edits into the file in the traditional way it used too in days gone by .. but they changed something.
None of the previous software will read Studio edits, or ITPC/keyword data, Windows won't either.

Question is, is it just a bug? or is it an inherent change in the method for saving into the original image.
I have no fear to save data into the original image.

In 15+ years of doing so with Nikon software, I've never had an issue.. and that I've seen even the older method of saving edits 'destructively' is not really.
While it's true that the camera original image has been edited, the file can be restored faithfully back to the originally as shot parameters as set in the camera(ie. tones and colours and whatnot).
What can't be reversed tho is that if you ever wanted to reload that 'original' image back into the camera to view it on the camera again! .. why anyone would NEED this specific ability, is not something I can comprehend.
So while it's true that the 'revert to original' is not explicitly true in the technical sense .. it is as original as needed by most folks.
Nikon's software edits are only written to the 'maker notes' section that describe how the raw file should be converted into an image on screen. In effect it's non destructive anyhow.. just no need for external sidecar files and saved copies of images that are just duplicates of the out of camera NEF, and then backing up those files again over and over .. simplifies backups.

So far as can be noted... Studio has now broken some part of a previous Nikon file ecosystem .. so be careful with it. I'm treating it purely as beta software .. a bit of a curio until it's bugs are worked out.

Speed. can't complain on this old FX8350(AMD) slug of a desktop. Fast enough SSDs seem to keep it ticking over at reasonable pace. Better than CNX-D(reconfirmed just now too).
Viewer sped is still not VNX2 speed tho. More so at initial start up, as once opened and images in a folder viewed previews are fast enough.
Seems like the preview database/thumbnails may only be temporary in some way?

Apologies for the tedious reply .. finding stuff as I type ..

So as I type, I also find that there is no way to set the preview images as the NEF file or the jpg preview file. obviously the jpg file will be quicker, maybe this could be why I see slower previewing for now after every start up of the program, and why once viewed preview is then instant.
In VNX2, preview is instant, except for the condition that any new NEFs uploaded and viewed for the first time. once the thumbnail database has been built, it's instant preview every time.
Overall VNX2 is still much faster. SO much so that if I have a series of images shot moments from the previous and next images, holding the left/right arrow keys the preview on the main window looks like a 15fps video.. ie. instant preview for as long as you like.
IN Studio, all I see is a black screen, and the film strip moving, but the highlighter on the thumbnail not moving with it .. ie. much slower.
In a one at a time keystroke from image to image, Studio is good enough as a viewer, 1 sec display, but not instant like VNX2 is.
CNX-D   glacial on my desktop .. blurry image for a couple of seconds .. then finally! .. kind of experience.
Arthur

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2021, 12:48:11 »
Arthur, it's good to know that the ratings are incompatible across different Nikon software.

I can understand why they'd want to use sidecar files instead of modifying the NEF itself as a modified NEF may or may not work in 3rd party software or the camera. For example NEF files edited by Capture NX2 could not be used in DXO raw converter, a major problem for me at the time. That the edits are no longer stored in the NEF is a good thing from my perspective as I can choose to use DXO PhotoLab for specific images even if I have created TIFFs from them using NX Studio.

Ratings are a really important part of my editing workflow, and it's a pity that they are not maintained across different software.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2021, 00:14:06 »
From some quick experimenting it appears to me that VienNXi and NX Studio save and share XMP/IPCT data through the *.nksc, sidecar files. Capture NX-D and NX Studio share all adjustments for an NEF file in the *.nksc sidecar files as well.

I'm not aware of Capture NX-D ever writing to an NEF file, only to the *.nksc sidecar files. I recently did some bit by bit comparison of NEF files with and without XMP/IPCT data confirming this data is stored only in the *.nksc files.

ON1 Perfect Browser stores XMP/IPCT data in sidecar files as well. I don't remember the ON1 sidecar file extension. I haven't used ON1 Perfect Browser in a long time and don't have access to the computer it's installed on at this time.

Since the *.nksc sidecar files are probably proprietary to Nikon other programs that cannot access the *.nksc files will not see the XMP/IPCT data.

I hope I'm not talking trash: please correct me if I'm wrong.  :)

Dave
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Øivind Tøien

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2021, 12:11:09 »
Yes, it is one way street from ViewNX2 to the later versions that use sidecar files. Same with IPTC information. That is why I still like to initially rate and keyword in ViewNX2, as this information will stick to the file, and in case one want to start the edit over again by erasing the sidecar or want to use non-Nikon software, then that information is preserved and can be read back in to the sidecars again.
Øivind Tøien

David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2021, 23:01:15 »
Yes, it is one way street from ViewNX2 to the later versions that use sidecar files. Same with IPTC information. That is why I still like to initially rate and keyword in ViewNX2, as this information will stick to the file, and in case one want to start the edit over again by erasing the sidecar or want to use non-Nikon software, then that information is preserved and can be read back in to the sidecars again.

I don't think ViewNX2 will work for me. My primary camera is a Nikon D850. I wonder about ON1 Perfect Browser 10? It saves XMP/IPCT data in sidecar files but files I think ViewNXi could read them. I'll have to check. If so then the ON1 sidecars would not be proprietary. At the time I gave up adding XMP/IPCT data with ViewNXi as ViewNXi and Capture NX-D became deathly slow when previewing an NEF with XMP/IPCT data added. Perhaps my windows desktop had an issue with memory compression.

At this time I have too many NEF files with no added XMP/IPCT information added to help me locate a file. I save NEF in folders with names in the form of <user name> <Pictures> <Nikon_D850> <D850_2021-mm-dd_00000> with a file name of "D850_DSC0000". This means I have to remember the camera and approximate date of a photograph and then look at thumbnails to fine a specific photograph. This is a default method of saving NEF that I never improved as time went on. It's out of hand at this point and takes too much time to locate a specific file.

Thanks for your replies. I'm in need of a practical system since I'm now on my 4th DSLR and I rolled the odometer over on my D800 once and it's about to roll over a second time. It would have rolled over a second time if I hadn't bought a D850.

Dave

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Airy

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2021, 23:27:15 »
I finally got it running. The issue was with the C++ redistributable.

First impressions
- display is slightly more speedy, but
- output is definitely slower (I get that annoying message "wait until blabla gets prepared" for about 5 seconds, during which everything is prozen)

Still wondering what the point is for this new release.

On the other hand, the menu is a bit less messy, but I still miss the possibility to correct distortion of non-registered lenses (old Nikkors, Zeiss, etc.). Basic functionality.
Airy Magnien

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2021, 23:35:08 »
Still wondering what the point is for this new release.

Well, on my computer, ViewNX-i would sometimes (not always) take tens of minutes before it was willing to show the thumbnails in a folder after ratings have been set and 0's deleted, for example (no such problem with NX Studio). NX-D doesn't allow me to export to the current directory without each time setting the directory manually (also fixed in NX Studio). For my needs (which includes browsing, location map viewing, rating, raw conversion with Nikon algorithms with subsequent processing in Photoshop), NX Studio is a big improvement and has become my primary browser and raw converter after a seven-year exodus. Although I recognize it doesn't have all the features of NX-D (which in turn doesn't have all the features of Capture NX2) but these missing features are not ones that I would do in this part of my workflow (e.g. I crop in PS).

For some things I use Lightroom Classic instead of Nikon software. For example, for studio images I use xrite profiles and I apply them in LR.  Also, I use LR for printing typically when I need to print multiple images on one piece of paper, or generally for batch printing. I could otherwise use LR as a starting point in general but it doesn't show focus points, fine tune settings or much other camera-specific data.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2021, 23:46:39 »
Still wondering what the point is for this new release.

The ViewNXi and Capture NX-D scheme is a bit disjointed and probably relates to "Free" ViewNX2 and extra cost Capture NX2. Since ViewNXi and Capture NX-D free it makes sense to combine them in a single viewer and NEF developing program. NX Studio probably was pushed out before its time because of the MAC M1 and M1X CPU computers and compatibility problems with new releases of macOS. For the time I think Nikon will continue adding compatibility for new cameras to Capture NX-D but not for long.

I'm still using Capture NX-D as NX Studio is so unfinished and beta quality. I hope a more finished version of NX Studio is coming soon as I'll switch gladly when it does. Capture NX-D was a mess even when a v1.0.0 was released but in time I stopped using Capture NX2 as I found Capture NX-D more useable.

I hope people will keep pressure on Nikon to finish NX Studio into a ready for prime time offering. As of now even Undo and Redo are grayed out. This is shameful. I feel Nikon is shooting itself in the foot the way it did by dumping an unfinished Capture NX-D on DSLR customers.

Dave

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Well, on my computer, ViewNX-i would sometimes (not always) take tens of minutes before it was willing to show the thumbnails in a folder after ratings have been set and 0's deleted, for example (no such problem with NX Studio).  ...

No wonder you have switched already.

Dave
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2021, 23:45:30 »
An example of a Nikon algorithm that I have started to like and an example application.

Here I show the original image of a gull attacking a swan. I had just arrived and positioned my tripod and setup behind some grass in a place where I can get it close to the level of the water, the swan arrived and a gull made multiple attacks on it. I hadn't had time to make exposure adjustments.

This is what came out of the camera unadjusted and after application of Active D-lighting Extra High 2 and minor adjustments (curves + cropping), and the third image is with D-lighting Normal. I could have made masks in Photoshop for the birds but it would have taken time and with D-lighting I was able to recover a viewable image of a high-contrast situation with minimal work. D6, 300/2.8, f/2.8, 1250s, ISO 100.

arthurking83

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2021, 00:27:33 »
Arthur, it's good to know that the ratings are incompatible across different Nikon software.

I can understand why they'd want to use sidecar files instead of modifying the NEF itself as a modified NEF may or may not work in 3rd party software or the camera. For example NEF files edited by Capture NX2 could not be used in DXO raw converter, a major problem for me at the time. That the edits are no longer stored in the NEF is a good thing from my perspective as I can choose to use DXO PhotoLab for specific images even if I have created TIFFs from them using NX Studio.

Ratings are a really important part of my editing workflow, and it's a pity that they are not maintained across different software.

Interesting!

DXO Photolab is the only thirdparty(ie. non Nikon) software that I haven't deleted off my PC. All others tried have been uninstalled.

My test bench method for comparing the ability of thirdparty software is to always compare images edited in CNX2 to the new software, so always edit in CNX2 then try to edit file to a similar 'look' in new software. I've never seen any issues out of Photolab having edited the image in CNX2 first.

Don't really use Photolab any longer, as CNX-D got an update and introduced colour control points again, even tho I rarely used it too, and now Studio has this ability. I'm fairly inept at editing without CCPs. My primary reasoning for using all these software was the future outlook when the time came to update to a model no longer supported by CNX2 and VNX2.

In fact this software is so important to me, that back in the day when the D5600 was available at a reasonable price, I still pined for a D5500 simply because of compatibility with CNX2 and VNX2. D5500 was not a must have the latest and greatest purchase, it was a whimsical spur of the moment click of the buy button for my daughter who suddenly had an interest in proper .. ie. non smartphone! .. photography.
Arthur

David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon NX studio
« Reply #89 on: May 31, 2021, 05:48:19 »
Not a bug, just slow software.

I think there is a cleverly almost hidden progress bar perhaps on the lower left that shows the progress of saving those *.nksc sidecar files. I'm typing on a MAC that can't run NX Studio so I can't check.

If your computer is saving to a hard disk that has gone to sleep it may take some time for it to spin up. If this is the case the HD can be set to spin down or sleep only after it has not been used for perhaps 1 to 2 hours. Even at 2 hours an HD won't be left spinning 24/7. It's probably best not to spin an HD up and down frequently. If the computer in question is a laptop with an SSD then there is no need to have the SSD sleep. Some laptops have both an SSD and an HD so HD spin down could be an issue with these.

I don't think it's good to have an HD spinning 24/7 but also I read it's not good to have one spin up and down frequently. I think 1 to 2 hours is a good compromise. Did I just repeat myself?  :)

Some have reported that Capture NX-D was deathly slow and other that it wasn't too bad. Maybe HD spin down was the issue. If so HD spin down would cause the same problem with NX Studio. Again?  ???

Dave

I'm too tired to fix this post.
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