"FX" format: Nikon pushed down by Sony

[bjornthun]

No matter how one argues (yes...) Sony has moved upwards and forwards in a manner Nikon ought to study closer and learn from...and move accordingly. They haven't.

If we are to believe Thom Hogan, Nikon is just shuffling around its consensus based management. If that's right, I doubt they will study or learn anything at a sufficiently quick pace for Nikon to react to market changes.

When will Fujifilm announce that they are the number two APS-C maker? (With Canon as the number one.)

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Another thing that astonishes me is that Nikon users complain about the price of e.g. the 105/1,4 but for Sony you can pay as much for a 135/2.8. Two stops extra speed and beautiful in focus to out of focus transition is what you get extra by buying the Nikon. Yet people don't seem to think twice about Sony mount lens prices. 

I think a modern apo 135/2.8 is worth roughly 700€-1000€, not 2000€.

It feels a bit like Nikon-bashing has become a popular sport, similar to what lead to genocides in the past, or voting for some politicians with no rational arguments behind the behavior, just finding euphoria with agreeing to throw stones and feeling a sense of belonging in the crowd.

[Akira]

It feels a bit like Nikon-bashing has become a popular sport, similar to what lead to genocides in the past, or voting for some politicians with no rational arguments behind the behavior, just finding euphoria with agreeing to throw stones and feeling a sense of belonging in the crowd.

I also feel that is an unhealthy way to release one's frustration...

[BW]

Let people migrate to Sony by the millions. It's a win win situation for me. Dirt cheap second hand, quality gear that has hardly been used. How could that be wrong

[stenrasmussen]

I hope my wording isn't interpreted as Nikon-bashing. I still like Nikon's products. The matter of the fact is that Nikon is struggling and needs to do something. I sincerely hope this is happening but as long as they keep turning out updates of older camera models their sales aren't improving at sufficient rates.

[Jakov Minić]

Madonna did sell a lot more albums than Miles Davis.

Please report all bashing comments and I will delete them, thanks

[stenrasmussen]

Madonna did sell a lot more albums than Miles Davis.

Would I rather have Madonna than MD in mee hands ? 😆😆😆

[bjornthun]

Would I rather have Madonna than MD in mee hands ? 😆😆😆

[Jakov Minić]

A perfect opportunity to lock this topic considering the sexist remarks.

[Bjørn Rørslett]

OK, let's try again. Keep to the topic under discussion and all is well.

[simsurace]

Nikon is very present at big sports events, listening to pro photographers and their problems. They are conspicuously absent for all other users, in my view. You have to jump through hoops to get to speak to someone, and then you often feel the pressure of not being allowed to be completely straight. There is nothing wrong with Nikon products, both their entry-level stuff which is amazing value for the money as well as the high-end gear that has been offering many unique designs. But their marketing is not as effective as it needs to be: e.g. many people don't know about entry-level DSLRs capabilities (i.e. that they are so close to the high-end stuff for a very low price, and very tough). They continue to neglect the DX line by not giving users more lens options, because of fear of endangering Fx sales. There is eccessive moving stuff around on mid-range gear. They need to get real data and ask their existing users what would make them upgrade. I like that Nikon's designers are doing what they like and users get really cool stuff from them. But the ecosystem that would allow them to excel is not there, probably due to a management that is not agile and too conservative. They also need to improve their software: they are not realizing the potential of a more open software environment, both in allowing third-party companies full access to RAW specifications, and making the UI more customizable and modular. There they need to team up with excellent software experts instead of playing the protective game. What if users were allowed to tweak the algorithms? What are the chances that users could come up with superior results in areas that were neglected by the engineers, or came up with new apps that added functions that Nikon did not think of? I think they are quite high actually, and would benefit the brand value, particularly among the tech-savvy crowd.

[BW]

They also need to improve their software: they are not realizing the potential of a more open software environment, both in allowing third-party companies full access to RAW specifications, and making the UI more customizable and modular. There they need to team up with excellent software experts instead of playing the protective game. What if users were allowed to tweak the algorithms? What are the chances that users could come up with superior results in areas that were neglected by the engineers, or came up with new apps that added functions that Nikon did not think of? I think they are quite high actually, and would benefit the brand value, particularly among the tech-savvy crowd.

This is actually a great idea! As it seems like more and more people move away from using their gear for photography purposes and use it more and more for testing and discussing test results. Noise level in shadows at 100% crop etc, etc   There is a large group of people out there that think they know so much better than the designers and engineers so let them have a go at it. The worst thing that could happen is that they improve an already good product. I think the majority of the internett "engineers" would have a big problem coming up with viable ideas, though. Regarding Sony, I feel that most of the reasons why people choose to go there is because they are trying to downsize their gear. After they have done that, they use most of their time trying to figure out how to adapt second party lenses to their camera. The native lenses are of course too big and even bigger than the ones they have migrated from. And so the cycle keeps on spinning Comparing camera systems without considering that people may have different needs than one self is a suicide mission. The outcome is set once the discussion start.
I personally think Nikon should keep on producing market leading products as they have done up til now and innovate on their home turf, rather than imitate away from home. I have seen the the "other side of light" and it was not pretty    

[richardHaw]

lots of people are using Sony for video that's why 

[bjornthun]

Smaller system
You don't migrate from one full frame system to another to get smaller lenses, not even to DX. If you want smaller lenses you have to go to m43, with more noise. The size gain from going APS-C/DX is too small, imho. Some native Sony FE lenses are smaller, some not. Adapting lenses is easy, no big deal to figure out.

EVF
If Nikon had offered an FX camera with an EVF in 2014, I could have stayed with Nikon. Three years later on there is still no Nikon FX camera with an EVF. I can't properly focus an OVF and have wasted a lot of money on alt focus screens etc. to no avail. FM2 has a much better viewfinder than any DSLR. Go figure. It might be possible that Nikon could make a DSLR with an OVF to my liking, but so far no cigar, not even close. Should be on their things to fix list, but too late for me now. I have switched to Sony. Some people switch to Sony to get a full frame system with a viewfinder providing a (10x) focus magnifier. That's what I did. I'm not the only one. And no, liveview doesn't cut it.

Video AF
Sony and Canon have good video AF, something that Nikon has to fix ASAP. They didn't fix that with the otherwise excellent (from specs) D7500 either. The next iteration is two years away.

Apps in the camera
Sony offers apps for their cameras. The API for that is being reverse engineered, and focus stacking is one useful thing, that has come out of that, though still a proof of concept. Sony could do much more with the in camera apps. Focus stacking is just one small thing that an AF-S or AF-P lens can do. They do that already with CamRanger. Creating an open API for camera apps just one thing Nikon could do, and quickly lead.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Nikon should improve manual focusing on both the body and lens side. The bodies should have interchangeable focusing screens optimized for different aperture ranges, with and without manual focus aids and the screen position should be accurate. On the lens side, many "affordable" Nikon lenses have poor manual focus rings and I don't believe this has to be so at all. The 35/1.4, 58/1.4, 85/1.4, 105/1.4, and 200/2 I find to have fine manual focus rings, but e.g. 20/1.8 not so much. I am quite puzzled why they put the ring in there at all if its use has to be so difficult. If Nikon do not offer really good video/live view AF, they should at least work on the manual focus of the lenses so that they can be used reliably.

My experience is that with FX and Katz Eye focusing screen for the D700, I had no issue focusing the 28/2 ZF for example, manually, even wide open. Focusing angle lenses is one of the more challenging tasks in DSLR use, in my experience. I think it can be done a lot better than it is done by Nikon today.

For me focusing manually on a A7R II EVF didn't result in correctly focused shots when testing it with a 135/2 Apo Sonnar. I wasn't even able to get it close and was puzzled by the results. I cannot zoom in to focus when hand holding to photograph a person as I need to be able to monitor the overall composition and see the image as a whole without distractions. I am able to get correctly focused shots using my Nikons using the focus confirmation dot; with that lens on the D8x0 it works well.