Author Topic: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes  (Read 47300 times)

Øivind Tøien

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 1891
  • Fairbanks, Alaska
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #90 on: April 15, 2017, 09:34:20 »
Does the D3400 have an aperture stop-down lever? If so, the limitation of not metering with AF-D lenses is purely by design.

Nikon's classic way of thinking. To save on parts they removed the sensor that checks if a lens is at minimum aperture. Ergo one cannot be sure that the user is clever enough to make sure that the lens is set correctly - so disallow the user to potentially operate the camera incorrectly.

A firmware hack could do away with this limitation, as there really is no physical reason the body cannot meter correctly with an AF lens and control aperture as long a the user operates the lens correctly. It would be easier to stay away from the D3400 altogether though.
Øivind Tøien

Ilkka Nissilä

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1712
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #91 on: April 15, 2017, 13:40:43 »
Wow, it looks like the metering of non-CPU lenses has now disappeared from the specifications at least on Nikon USA page. So, apparently no stop down metering, then.

Akira

  • Homo jezoensis
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 12825
  • Tokyo, Japan
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #92 on: April 15, 2017, 13:56:36 »
Does the D3400 have an aperture stop-down lever? If so, the limitation of not metering with AF-D lenses is purely by design.

No, it doesn't.  It is designed NOT to meter with AF-D.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

MILLIREHM

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 863
  • Vienna, Austria
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #93 on: April 15, 2017, 14:44:19 »
... yet it feels like design by bean-counters: attract customers with some nice new features but otherwise give the very minimum that will be acceptable and no more. The risk of this strategy is that the customer feels they do not get value for money and decide not to buy Nikon at all. ...
+1
I had similar thoughts
Wolfgang Rehm

Matthew Currie

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 679
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #94 on: April 15, 2017, 15:29:17 »
No, it doesn't.  It is designed NOT to meter with AF-D.
I had not noticed this, and it really surprises me.  The D3200 and 3300 have a minimum aperture switch, which allows full metering with AFD, AF and AIP lenses, and I can't understand why that simple and cheap feature was dropped on the 3400.  With a chipped lens no AI follower is needed.

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #95 on: April 15, 2017, 15:49:57 »
No, it doesn't.  It is designed NOT to meter with AF-D.

The picture does indeed show the opposite, viz.  a stop down lever in the camera throat ... thus there is obvious the D3400 could have metered with the older lenses if Nikon had not prevented this option,

However, if a lens with a 'G' CPU is attached, this constraint is circumvented. Meaning you will be able to meter even with manual focus lenses.

The conclusion is that the D3400 and its ilk are designed exclusively for 'G' (and, by extension, 'E')  lenses.


CS

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1240
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #96 on: April 15, 2017, 18:34:31 »
If anyone is interested Thom Hogan had a few words about the D7500 in his announcement of the model. He mostly gives it a thumbs up, and yes, some of use disagree with that. http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikon-introduces-the-d7500.html

First 4K video is a yawner for me because I don't care about video, I'm a still shooter. I'll trade the video capabilities for non-cpu metering, which appears to be a very generous offer on my part.  ;D

Carl

bjornthun

  • Guest
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #97 on: April 15, 2017, 19:01:44 »
If anyone is interested Thom Hogan had a few words about the D7500 in his announcement of the model. He mostly gives it a thumbs up, and yes, some of use disagree with that. http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikon-introduces-the-d7500.html

First 4K video is a yawner for me because I don't care about video, I'm a still shooter. I'll trade the video capabilities for non-cpu metering, which appears to be a very generous offer on my part.  ;D
Without video capabilities, Nikon DSLRs would be a much tougher sell. You wouldn't want that to happen.

Akira

  • Homo jezoensis
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 12825
  • Tokyo, Japan
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #98 on: April 15, 2017, 21:45:27 »
The picture does indeed show the opposite, viz.  a stop down lever in the camera throat ... thus there is obvious the D3400 could have metered with the older lenses if Nikon had not prevented this option,

Okay, I thought you meant the minimum (maximum?) aperture ring position detector.  D3400 does have the stop-down lever and is compatible with AF-S and later lenses.  So, it is incompatible with Ai AF, AF-D and Ai-P chips?
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

Akira

  • Homo jezoensis
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 12825
  • Tokyo, Japan
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #99 on: April 15, 2017, 21:48:44 »
Without video capabilities, Nikon DSLRs would be a much tougher sell. You wouldn't want that to happen.

I don't really care about 4k either, but for a different reason.  NHK (Japan Broadcasting Corporation) is starting the experimental broadcast of 8k.  They are striving for the official start of 8k broadcasting in 2020 in synch with the Tokyo Olympic games.  I guess the shelf life of 4k video machines will be shorter than the 1080/60p ones.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

Ilkka Nissilä

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1712
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #100 on: April 15, 2017, 23:22:29 »
Well I struggle with the processing demands of individual frame 36MP images, let alone a 24 or 60 fps stream of them.

I have a 4K TV (55") but apart from the smoothness of the fonts in the text that is added to the footage, I can't really tell the difference between HD (nationally broadcast, netflix or blu-ray) and 4K footage (from Netflix) from a normal viewing distance where I would watch this size of a TV. Furthermore I am not in the slightest bothered by SD material on DVD compared to broadcast FullHD; if the content is good, either works fine for me (even excellently). For nature shows such as those made by BBC, FullHD is advantageous, as well as for some sports where there are many players visible at the same time, but for movies, I'm fine with DVD quality. I just don't see a purpose in going from FullHD to 4K or beyond even if the material was available to me. It's a different situation with photographs which can be printed large and viewed and studied for a long time, and let the details "sink in"; when watching films, I'm interested in the plot mainly, and wouldn't pay much attention to how much detail there is since the images are changing.

I can see the idea of using a 4K or higher TV set for slide-showing photographs though I prefer the permance of prints. Even for stills I find 24MP or 36MP adequate for any need I might have, and mostly shoot 20MP nowadays. 12MP was a little too little though. I think adding pixels is largely just a waste of storage space, computing power and thus also electrical power and natural resources. The internet is already consuming a large chunk of our energy and increasing the amount of data would necessarily entail increased need for the production of electricity that might exceed all other uses (and thus result in increased pollution and global warming).


Øivind Tøien

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 1891
  • Fairbanks, Alaska
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #101 on: April 16, 2017, 00:03:35 »

Along the same lines an 8K sensor in a DSLR 2:3 aspect ratio would be about 43 MPix...
Obviously pretty excessive for normal  live broadcast.
Øivind Tøien

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #102 on: April 16, 2017, 00:07:57 »
Okay, I thought you meant the minimum (maximum?) aperture ring position detector.  D3400 does have the stop-down lever and is compatible with AF-S and later lenses.  So, it is incompatible with Ai AF, AF-D and Ai-P chips?

This model can *only* handle 'G' and 'E' lenses. However, as long as the aperture mechanism is linear (ie. AIS), the 'G' might be equivalent to 'P' CPUs. Meaning one could mount any 'F' mount lens and have it fully operational as long as the chip in it is 'G'.

Akira

  • Homo jezoensis
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 12825
  • Tokyo, Japan
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #103 on: April 16, 2017, 00:13:26 »
I'm just talking about the plan of NHK.

Personally I would totally agree with Ilkka and Øivind.

I'm pretty much satisfied with the SD quality movies rented at iTunes Store viewed on my 19" computer monitor.

I saw a slide show of the images of various Nikon DSLRs, from D200 to D810 at the Nikon Showroom in Shinjuku shown on a 4K display.  The "lowly" D200 image looked no inferior to those from D810 in terms of resolution.  Yes, 4k is a 8MP image which is still outperformed by the 10MP D200.

So far as the quality of still image on a display is concerned, the bit depth may be more important.  I'm not sure if the professional 10bit 4:2:2 is adequate for stills.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

Akira

  • Homo jezoensis
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 12825
  • Tokyo, Japan
Re: D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes
« Reply #104 on: April 16, 2017, 00:18:29 »
This model can *only* handle 'G' and 'E' lenses. However, as long as the aperture mechanism is linear (ie. AIS), the 'G' might be equivalent to 'P' CPUs. Meaning one could mount any 'F' mount lens and have it fully operational as long as the chip in it is 'G'.

I see.  So, D3400 has gone one more step further to abandon the compatibility.  Now it (officially) only supports G, E and P lenses.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira