D7500 - Nikon gives and Nikon takes

[chambeshi]

Here's a table comparing D500 vs D7500 vs D7200

http://nikonrumors.com/nikon-d500-vs-nikon-d7500-vs-nikon-d7200-specifications-comparison/

[Ilkka Nissilä]

We simply don't know which model lines will be discontinued, if any. The D5x00 and D7x00 are best sellers. I have understood that the D3400 is selling poorly and it would not be surprising to me if it were discontinued soon. There has not been adequate progress in that line to make people want it.

[benveniste]

I can understand only one SD slot and lack of AI support on the budget 3xxx and 5xxx models, but removing these features from the D7500 when the earlier 7xxx models have it, seems a backward step.

I don't think it's a bad camera, nor even a bad set of technology choices, but why Nikon Marketeers chose to slap a D7xxx badge on it I'll never understand.  It won't be the first time I've been baffled by Nikon marketing nor is it the worst marketing decision I've seen them make.  What bothers me is that they've made this same mistake before.  The N/F80 (and by extension the D100) should have had AI support as well.

[Roland Vink]

Well, Nikon cannot make money (remember, their profit was in the negative last year) by competing with second hand manual focus lenses that sell for a fraction of the cost that they cost new (inflation corrected). To have this support of old lenses in new cameras, there is an additional cost (due to the components required) and for each camera body that is not at the very high end, Nikon must ask the question: which features the users of this particular body want to use their money on? In this case Nikon increased the buffer size, fps rate, processing speed, provided the additional motor to control aperture during live view and video, added the high resolution matrix meter to facilitate subject recognition and autofocus, etc. Quite a lot of things that didn't exist in the D7200 were included in the D7500. I think most users of manual focus lenses prefer FX for the larger viewfinder. There are of course exceptions such as macro or astrophotography, where one might prefer to use manual focus lenses but in the former case, the Ai coupling is not necessary, and in the latter case, metering isn't really useful, so for either of these applications the D7500 would seem to work even with manual focus.

I can't disagree with this ... yet it feels like design by bean-counters: attract customers with some nice new features but otherwise give the very minimum that will be acceptable and no more. The risk of this strategy is that the customer feels they do not get value for money and decide not to buy Nikon at all. Surely it is better for Nikon if a customer buys a camera and uses old second hand lenses on it, than the customer not buying the camera at all.

But I'm not really the best to argue this case, I waited until an affordable FX camera appeared (D600) until I bought a DSLR for my manual focus lenses. I would have never bought the D7500 or any predecessors to use with my AI and AIS lenses. I suspect many other photographers with arsenals of manual focus lenses did the same.

[chambeshi]

As many commentators have noted repeatedly in discussions on the theme of this thread, a new DLSR has to cater to a wide spectrum of user categories. Each has niche requirements - e.g. compatibility for MF lenses, travelers with Wifi communications; fast AF; Dual SD cards for backup etc. Any mid level camera has to sell in volume. Besides being competitively priced, a mid range DSLR as in the D7500 will logically target emerging photographers seeking to upgrade from their entry level DSLR or smaller format digital camera (or cellphone).
Nikon cameras lacking backward compatibility with the legendary F mount (well at least to AI lenses) antagonize older users who started with MF lenses on the F2, F3, FM Series etc. Today, G and E lenses are set to dominate current models. While many emerging users expect AF, they may consider D lenses obsolescent, because they lack VR. Hence, besides AI/AIS, the in-camera focus is an expendable cost cutting option on some DSLRs.
It will be interesting to see what market research will tell us about the proportional use by Nikonians of the different lens categories, and why they first selected their particular DSLR(s) and how they use the camera in practice (especially as their photographic interests evolve...)

Quote from: Roland Vink on April 12, 2017, 11:00:26
I can understand only one SD slot and lack of AI support on the budget 3xxx and 5xxx models, but removing these features from the D7500 when the earlier 7xxx models have it, seems a backward step.

I don't think it's a bad camera, nor even a bad set of technology choices, but why Nikon Marketeers chose to slap a D7xxx badge on it I'll never understand.  It won't be the first time I've been baffled by Nikon marketing nor is it the worst marketing decision I've seen them make.  What bothers me is that they've made this same mistake before.  The N/F80 (and by extension the D100) should have had AI support as well.

[David H. Hartman]

I don't think it's a bad camera, nor even a bad set of technology choices, but why Nikon Marketeers chose to slap a D7xxx badge on it I'll never understand.  It won't be the first time I've been baffled by Nikon marketing nor is it the worst marketing decision I've seen them make.  What bothers me is that they've made this same mistake before.  The N/F80 (and by extension the D100) should have had AI support as well.

I've wondered what Nikon was thinking about a number of camera model designations. They don't seem to have a plan except for the single digit series.

The D80 was based on the mechanical components of the F80/N80 and since these did not support AI and AIS metering it's no surprise the D80 didn't. The D80 was a volume selling entry model and a success. I found the viewfinder in it the worst I've seen in a Nikon dSLR or fSLR for that mater. There may have been others but none I tried.

Dave Hartman

[David H. Hartman]

Anyone: does the D7500 meter in Manual Mode with AI/AIS Nikkors? I'm under the impression that the D7500 gives center-weighted and spot in M.

Dave

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Anyone: does the D7500 meter in Manual Mode with AI/AIS Nikkors? I'm under the impression that the D7500 gives center-weighted and spot in M.

That's what the specifications say. That's all any one of us knows.

[Akira]

I just realized that D3400 cannot "meter" with AF-D lenses.  It can only be used in "M" mode without meter.

Obviously Nikon is abandoning the legacy lenses for the simpler future compatibility.  I won't be surprized if D7500 cannot meter with the MF lenses.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Many of my Nikon using friends do use older lenses along with the new. Backwards compatibility is a benefit.  However, be that as it may, many DX consumer DSLRs do not have full backwards compatibility and some 35mm film SLRs also were like this (F-401 series to my knowledge could not be used with non-CPU lenses). So the train went long ago if you wanted all Nikon bodies to support all old lenses (mid-1980s).  What we can do is select for our purposes a camera body which is fit for the purpose and not get emotional about features on other cameras that are for someone else. By buying an appropriate camera for our needs, we also inform Nikon on what their users need.

[Akira]

Yeah, but D3400 seems to be the first DSLR that cannot meter with the lenses even with the CPU (AF-D).

[bjornthun]

Yeah, but D3400 seems to be the first DSLR that cannot meter with the lenses even with the CPU (AF-D).

That piece of information surprises me, but I had a look at a detailed picture of the mount on the D3400, and you're absolutely right. There is a tab/lever missing in the lower left part of the mount on the D3400, that would be needed for the camera to know that the aperture ring is set to the smallest aperture/highest number.

[Akira]

The fact that AF-"D" doesn't work would suggest the aperture ring is no more relevant?  I'm not sure if D3400 can meter with the AF-D or full manual lenses in video mode.

[Bjørn Rørslett]

Does the D3400 have an aperture stop-down lever? If so, the limitation of not metering with AF-D lenses is purely by design.

[chambeshi]

Many of my Nikon using friends do use older lenses along with the new. Backwards compatibility is a benefit.  However, be that as it may, many DX consumer DSLRs do not have full backwards compatibility and some 35mm film SLRs also were like this (F-401 series to my knowledge could not be used with non-CPU lenses). So the train went long ago if you wanted all Nikon bodies to support all old lenses (mid-1980s).  What we can do is select for our purposes a camera body which is fit for the purpose and not get emotional about features on other cameras that are for someone else. By buying an appropriate camera for our needs, we also inform Nikon on what their users need.

Agree fully, and do not overlook the cost effectiveness of Used digital Nikon bodies that will continue be available for quite a few years hence. This will include superseded top models : as it stands D2, D3, D4, D600, D700 series, together with those older DX cameras supporting AI, AIS, D lenses. These bodies still work well and have their niche roles