Author Topic: How to Dampen Vibrations  (Read 8892 times)

Michael Erlewine

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How to Dampen Vibrations
« on: September 14, 2015, 02:50:42 »
I have a nice, but rather small, room in my house that I use for a studio. The light is perfect, with skylight, and large vertical windows, etc. What is not perfect is that the floor vibrates, ever so slightly, even if I am just standing there… trying to be still.

So, my question is. If, for example, I use a four-legged stool to set my subject on (a flower) and the camera is on a tripod. The tripod does not seem to vibrate, but he stool does.

What could I place under the four legs of the stool to dampen vibrations?
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Akira

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2015, 04:17:24 »
Michael, the first things that comes to my mind are some concrete blocks.  The same method for dampening the vibrations of the record players and speaker cabinets.
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Frank Fremerey

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2015, 09:03:13 »
I solved this once (in the case of a wooden floor, dancing, record player) by softly pumping the inner tupe of a bicycle and putting a marble slab on top, both of which I had in the closet by chance.

After that we could dance on the floor without the record jumping.

I guess though that the tripod might then be moving relatively to the Flower, so the construction might even be better if the tripod it on the mareble plate too.
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2015, 09:34:01 »
Mass alone is insufficient in the dampening of vibrations. What one needs is decoupling.

For speakers, standing them on spikes is a well known and recommendable practice. You can use a small metal piece underneath each spike to avoid marking the floor boards.

Alternatively, two heavy and torsionally rigid pieces of metal or stone, in between which an intermediate layer of hard rubber or similar pliant material is inserted, can be quite efficient. The shutter unit of the Nikon Multiphot follows this design principle.

Michael Erlewine

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2015, 09:41:37 »
Thanks all. I had come up with the idea of the two (or so) cement blocks and I have ordered some rubber vibration-isolation pads, so I will combine the two. This phenomenon does not seem to affect the tripod, but only the stool I have the subject (flower) sitting on. Obviously I have to solve this, because it affects every stacked photo... a lot.
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Frank Fremerey

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2015, 10:40:44 »
Thanks all. I had come up with the idea of the two (or so) cement blocks and I have ordered some rubber vibration-isolation pads, so I will combine the two. This phenomenon does not seem to affect the tripod, but only the stool I have the subject (flower) sitting on. Obviously I have to solve this, because it affects every stacked photo... a lot.

The rubberpads I tried they do not dampen / absorb the movement enough, they just frequency-modulate them. The bicycle tube did work much better, like an extremly slow levelling balance absorbing all kinds of vibration of different wavelengths.

Show a making off. when your done and tell us what did work and whatnot
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Les Olson

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2015, 11:42:42 »


So, my question is. If, for example, I use a four-legged stool to set my subject on (a flower) and the camera is on a tripod. The tripod does not seem to vibrate, but he stool does.

What could I place under the four legs of the stool to dampen vibrations?

Why not just put the flower pot on another tripod if the camera on the tripod is not vibrating? 

If you put a weight on a spring, then stretch the spring, then let it go, the weight bounces up and down, a little less each time, and eventually stops.  That is damping.  The time it takes to stop is related to the mass (the heavier the quicker it stops) and the stiffness (= elastic modulus) of the spring (the stiffer the quicker it stops).  So making the stool heavier or of stiffer material - steel rather than wood, eg - will damp the vibrations better. 

But if the vibrations are, eg, from nearby trains or trucks and reaching your floor through the earth damping will help but is not enough, because the vibrations do not happen in an instant and then decay.  You need uncoupling, as Bjorn says (which is probably why the tripod is not vibrating: it is very stiff and poorly coupled to the floor).

Uncoupling, however, is a bit counter-intuitive. It requires that the vibrations cross boundaries between materials of different density.  It is not that soft material, such as rubber, "absorbs" the vibrations, it is that they are lost at the interfaces between the light and heavy materials.  The loss depends on the difference in density, so steel on either side of rubber is much better than concrete either side of rubber, which is a poor choice because concrete is usually only a little denser than hard rubber.  Steel either side of bubble wrap is excellent.  Because only the interfaces matter it does not matter how thick the layers of material are: thin metal sheets are as good as thick ones and one layer of bubble wrap is as good as several - but many interfaces with different densities is many times better than one.       

Michael Erlewine

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2015, 17:18:54 »
Why not just put the flower pot on another tripod if the camera on the tripod is not vibrating? 
good as several - but many interfaces with different densities is many times better than one.       

Anyone know of a flat plate that we can mount at 90-degrees to the tripod head screw or quick-release clamp?
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Shane

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2015, 17:58:45 »
How about sorbothane telescope vibration pads?
http://starizona.com/acb/Vibration-Suppression-Pads-P680C0.aspx

Michael Erlewine

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2015, 18:24:38 »
How about sorbothane telescope vibration pads?
http://starizona.com/acb/Vibration-Suppression-Pads-P680C0.aspx

That's right. I have some already on order. These are the folks who really care about vibrations. I have checked it out.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Erik Lund

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2015, 09:33:44 »
Check out this set up:

http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,1570.msg16565.html#msg16565

Then there is no issue re camera and subject, unless you have other vibration issues in the house...
Erik Lund

Michael Erlewine

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2015, 09:40:15 »
Check out this set up:

http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,1570.msg16565.html#msg16565

Then there is no issue re camera and subject, unless you have other vibration issues in the house...

Well, as mentioned, the vibration issue I am look for a solution to is not related to camera and lens, but to vibrations in the floor itself. I am working on some possible solutions, which I will document here if they are successful.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Erik Lund

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2015, 09:59:57 »
........ The tripod does not seem to vibrate, but he stool does.

What could I place under the four legs of the stool to dampen vibrations?


Remove the stool from the set up!

Put the flower and camera on the same platform and put the platform onto the tripod.
Erik Lund

Bruno Schroder

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2015, 10:48:34 »
Uncoupling, however, is a bit counter-intuitive. It requires that the vibrations cross boundaries between materials of different density.  It is not that soft material, such as rubber, "absorbs" the vibrations, it is that they are lost at the interfaces between the light and heavy materials.  The loss depends on the difference in density, so steel on either side of rubber is much better than concrete either side of rubber, which is a poor choice because concrete is usually only a little denser than hard rubber.  Steel either side of bubble wrap is excellent.  Because only the interfaces matter it does not matter how thick the layers of material are: thin metal sheets are as good as thick ones and one layer of bubble wrap is as good as several - but many interfaces with different densities is many times better than one.       

Les,

Very usefull, I didn't know about this density variation impact.

In a sandwich, is it better to vary densities accross layers or will it not be significally different from a repeat of layers? In other words, would steel/bubblewrap/steel/bubblewrap/steel be equivalent to steel/rubber/lead/bubblewrap/aluminium?

Thanks.
Bruno Schröder

Frank Fremerey

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Re: How to Dampen Vibrations
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2015, 12:03:38 »
Remove the stool from the set up!

Put the flower and camera on the same platform and put the platform onto the tripod.

+1

Recording and sample  on the same platform AND decouple the platform
from the house vibration.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/