Author Topic: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)  (Read 1935 times)

David H. Hartman

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2021, 08:54:33 »
If you have Bridge, you can use it to Search for a word by any selected category including Keywords in the metadata.
LR and other DAM programs can do the same thing.

My old MacBook Pro has a defective logic board. Any program that swiches the graphics from the integrated (in the CPU) to a discrete graphics processor gives me an instant blue screen with vertical black stripes, crash or reboot. My Windows disktop is seven years old and I never bought a GPU but used the i7's integraded graphics.

It looks like my computer are rather lacking for 2021.

Dave
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Birna Rørslett

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2021, 10:33:07 »
Keywords likely need to be augmented by opportunity for free-text searching, map and location searches, date ranges, and so on.

golunvolo

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2021, 13:37:49 »
Thanks for the link Ann

Ann

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2021, 21:42:16 »
The kind of GPU which you have is becoming rather critical with the current software on the Macs and, although I could replace my graphics card in my very old Mac Pro tower, I don't believe that it is very easy to do (or even if one can do it at all) in MBPs.

I don't know what the situation with GPUs may be on Windows 10 but it may be similar?

David H. Hartman

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2021, 22:06:47 »
Without GPS data macOS Preview can't access XMP/IPCT data that was embedded into an NEF by the camera. Tools> Get location data> is grayed out. Irfanview on Windows can read the XMP/IPCT data if present. There is no macOS version of Irfanview.

What the hell is so special about GPS data that without it Apple Preview can't or won't read IPCT data? Windows ViewNX-i help only addresses searching for keywords if location data is present and it's about finding key words from wikipedia or similar.

For most of the photographs I've taken in the last few months GPS data is irrelevant. I will want to strip GPS data from most if posting to Flickr or similar. If traveling I'd want GPS data but for now tagging my photos with GPS is just an exercise for when I will want or need it.

Dave

At this point I see no use in adding keywords to NEF files with Nikon software as Nikon software can't search a folder and its subfolders for keywords. It a total waste of time bottle in a proprietary *.nksc sidecar file. This is stupid beyond belief.
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David H. Hartman

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2021, 23:26:19 »
Wait!

Key words and descriptions added with ViewNX-i are embedded in JPG files exported from ViewNX-I and those key words can be searched with macOS High Sierra's Finder!  :o

Is this useful? I suppose a small JPG could be exported for a folder full of NEF files with key words?

Preview opens an NEF with a large red, transparent rectangle. Film at eleven...

Dave

Is it me or is this XMP/IPCT keyword thing Epic Stupid?
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Ann

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2021, 00:31:35 »
I am now on Catalina on the MBP (with Mojave on my tower because that old machine can't be upgraded beyond Mojave) so I probably can't test much for you.

The newer software is becoming more and more dependent on the GPU and ACR is definitely a case in point.

I think that Preview actually displays a Preview from a NEF "as shot" but it can't read edits and Keywords which have been added to the file's xmp in ACR.

You apparently need to convert the NEF to a TIF before you can edit it further in Preview but I don't actually ever use Preview so I don't know much about its capabilities.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2021, 01:00:03 »
Perhaps adding key words with ViewNX-i or NX Studio to one or two images in a folder then exporting a small JPG of each might be a way of using Finder to locate that folder. Do I understand Windows Explorer can do the same? I'm tying on the MBP at this time.

I have a Windows 10 and MAC El Capitan computer networked now in my garage but the Windows 10 HP laptop I use here in my exile in a friend's house isn't mine. It's a school loaner so I haven't network the HP laptop and this MBP.

Dave

I have a mentally ill man living in my house. He has screwed over his last three landlords according to his daughter and he's doing it again to me. The US Postal Service is aware of him. The postmaster of the local USPS branch knows. He is apparently scamming the California EDD and Virginia Employment Commission. I strongly suspect he is dealing in identity theft. He should serve jail time for what he does to his landlords and prison time for identity theft. If California and Virginia don't care about their losses that's another story. Scores of mailings have come some with ATM cards. He is clearly a felon but the state of California protects him.

I'm ranting; I'll stop now.
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David H. Hartman

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2021, 08:50:22 »
Using the Root Admin and terminal I set these parameters...

sudo pmset -c gpuswitch 0

sudo pmset -b gpuswitch 0

This forces the use of the integrated graphics processor built into the Core i7 CPU and avoids the use of the discrete, high performance GPU that is defective.  -c is for on change Charge and -b is for on battery. Now this computer doesn't suddenly crash with a blue screen or reboot.

One more piece of the puzzle is a black screen after the computer goes to sleep and tries to wake. A pair of programs, Amphetamine Enhancer and Amphetamine.app keeps the computer from going to sleep even when the cover is closed.

OK, now I can run iMovie without instantly crashing this MacBook Pro. If I could find Adobe Bridge CS6 I could try Bridge. The latest Bridge is completely free but it won't install on High Sierra as the OS is too old. High Sierra is the latest OS I can install on the early 2011 MBP. All I can find is a 30 day trial for Bridge CS6.  :(

Dave

Adobe Bridge look impressive. I read a web page outlining what it can do. I'd like to give it a try.


How To Manage And Organize Your Images With Adobe Bridge
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Ann

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2021, 09:38:55 »
That was some very clever hacking!

You wrote: "The latest Bridge is completely free but it won't install on High Sierra as the OS is too old".

Well, it is sort of "free" but the free part of it is just the File Browser (which would be helpful anyway for Keywording) but unless you have either Ps or Lr as well, you wouldn't get access to ACR.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2021, 10:54:14 »
That was some very clever hacking!

The crashes with the blue screen with black strips looked to me like video memory failure. I know the i7 CPU has integrated graphics and that this MBP has a high performance GPU. Poking about the internet by the hour while bird sitting, kind of like watching a 3 year old child, I found bits and pieces. At this point this MBP is quite usable but rebooting may take 2 or 3 tries. I guess it normally tries to boot on the high performance GPU and then defaults to the integrated i7 graphics.

The problem of the high performance GPU failing is a common problem for this vintage MBP. A friend spent $700.00 to have the logic board replaced on her mid 2012. I guess the GPU is on that logic board. My MBP has only USB-2 ports and High Sierra is the last OS it will accept. It's long in the tooth and not worth spending much on. It has a mid level 250GB SSD, that's good. The keyboard is good and the flat screen display is quite good especially for it's age. It has a Firewire 800 port which is the only way to get data in and out quickly. Well this is what I have.

My normal workflow is Nikon Transfer 2 to ViewNX-i to Capture NX-D to Photoshop CS2 on the Windows 10 box. I use Irfanview to visually scan for photos, Irfanview and memory.

I'm tired and I'm rambling.

Dave
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arthurking83

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2021, 05:06:54 »
I just uploaded a dozen or so NEF(s) to this MAC using Nikon Transfer 2 v2.13.7 (c) 2019 with XMP/IPCT data added and an *.nksc file was created for each so no more embedding XMP/IPCT data directly into the NEF while transferred with Nikon Transfer, only sidecars.

Interesting!
My version of Transfer is 2.14.0(on Windows) and it still embeds the IPTC/Keyword data into the NEF.
My guess is that it could (possibly)be a operating system thing! .. or (more likely??) it could have something to do with the codec installed onto the OS.
I've pretty much always installed the latest version of Nikon's codec if I get a newer camera. Have you installed the Nikon NEF codec? Is one available for MacOSes?


[/quote]
I added a few keywords and a description to an NEF in ViewNX-i. I can't find a way by reading the menus in ViewNX-i to search folders for images with these keywords. I tried ViewNX-i help, nothing. I've searched online for tutorials and only find the bare essentials regarding ViewNX-i. Given what I've found so far adding keywords to an NEF (well it's sidecar file) is a total waste of time.

If all I have is ViewNX-i, Capture NX-D and finder on this MAC what is the value of adding keywords and or a description?

Dave

I'd say zero.. unless Studio can do something with those same sidecar files in the future. For now tho, nothing.

On Windows(sorry can't help with Mac), I know it works, and it works very well .. until it doesn't work very well! .. a bit more on this later)

If you have a Windows PC that you can work with, I'd say give it a try .. even for your D850 NEFs. Why, is that even with the extremely lowly Nikon ViewNX2, you can still embed ITPC data directly into the NEF. Once in the NEF and saved that way, no matter what software you choose to 'search' with, it will see the keywording you just added.
I'm going to upload some screenshots to show you how easy and simple it all is.

I mentioned before that you need the NEF codec from Nikon. Once installed(DON'T!!! use the Windows/Microsoft version of "all camera codecs" .. it doesn't work. You only need the version of Nikon's latest CODEC for your camera. If you require later version of the codec for later model cameras, then that's your choice too, and it still works. Later codec works on earlier cameras.

eg. I don't have a D850 camera, so don't need it. But for the sake of testing, I still download(not always install tho) this codec. Small file, so all archived for when things may go bang! .. and they can.
So using ViewNX2 .. noting that support for VNX2 ceased well before the D850 was released, and even just prior to the D810 too. So technically, ViewNX2 should not support neither the D850, nor the D810 .. let alone any of the Z model Nikons. But it does .. to a degree. This is where the codec comes into the equation.
If you install the NEF codec, VNX2 then uses the codec which allows you to view and edit rating and ITPC data only. Will not allow editing of the NEF file from those 'unsupported' cameras.
(this is not a worry for me as VNX2 is a terrible 'editor' for images. Far too basic, and pretty much useless. I wouldn't use it on JPGS either. All it offers as an advantage is that it's the easiest software to batch edit very simple stuff like WB or Picture Control or whatever, and the handiest software to add keyword and rating data INTO and NEF(if you prefer it that way).

I have rated and added Keyword data into cameras like the D850 and Z6 and Z7, not any cameras later than those two yet, but I suspect that if the latest codec was installed into Windows, it will still work.

So I download test files(of cameras I don't own) and test to see how it works .. and it works. If you try any of this, don't forget to save the file too.

I've never found any Nikon software to search for keyword data. Adding Keyword data via VNX2 is trivial, but has to be said can sometimes be annoying with a small bug that I cannot seem to eliminate. Ratings also easy to do .. then save NEF.



Note: the D850 NEF was downloaded from DPR. screencap of VNX2 with the D850 file open in NEF view mode. Note on the right hand side the keyword data added into ITPC area. The top three keywords were added when the D850 was a  new model and DPR had the sample files for download .. however many years ago that was. The fourth keyword tag was added this morning as I typed this reply .. just to be sure it still works(which it does).



This is the sometimes useless, although most often useful Windows Photo Gallery.
Note the LHS column where each keyword is listed. You can also 'search' for a keyword, but I normally don't. My searches are 99.9% directly in Windows searching facilities(depending on what I have open at the time. That is, if the question is posed I simply use the desktop search tool in the toolbar, and it locates any file with that search term.
If I have a Windows Explorer(same as Finder I guess) I type that into the upper RHS corner search bar in the file explorer window for the folder I need to search(more focused searching).
In Photo Gallery(WPG) it's there on the LHS column. The RHS column keyword is where you add or edit the tag data already in the file. The predictive component of this add/edit section is nice to have access too, especially if you do similar but slightly different tags.

The beauty of the 'system' is that between these Windows software(s) and Nikon's software(that actually helps in some way) is that there is a small degree of symbiosis. I can 'group' some tag data using the /(forward slash) separator in VNX2, which translates into a sub category tag data system in WPG.

eg. I have many sets of old manual lenses that I like to keep track of. Could be added into EXIF using some exif altering tools(EXIFtoolGUI) can work OK. But I prefer tag data. SO I have a header called Lens then a separator(/) and then the lens name type. in VNX2 Lens/Amar 105mm f4.5 translates in WPG as Lens heading with the sub category of Amar 105mm f4.5. Don't use the forward slash for the aperture value(ie. f4.5 not f/4.5) otherwise it creates a sub category again with the value 4.5 in WPG(and by extension Windows Search).

If you note on the RHS in WPG, it allows face regognition. If you do people photography(which I don't!) this could be extrememly handy. Once it's learned various aspects of a persons face, adding that person as tagged data is made so much easier using WPG, instead of VNX2. It's not perfect, it recognises dolls, and all manner of weird stuff too(as in the screencap the spiral patter in the DPR sample image!) but easy to ignore as well .. so not bothersome.

I think I've now tagged 100% of my images of my kids using this feature .. which I think would have taken me two lifetimes!.

It's not all roses tho, and it does sometimes skips a beat or two. Usually VNX2 and WPG work well together, and once tagged searching is also fluent and easy in Windows Search. But Windows itself allows adding or editing of tagged data in the NEF file .. again remember this is due to the NEF codec! without it, none of this works.
For some odd reason tho, I cannot add or edit any D850 NEF directly via Windows. Right click the NEF, select properties and open the details tab. You see the tagged data in the images, and normally you click on it, it will highlight blue and allows you to add/remove/edit the keywords and or ratings(stars).
I can't get it to do so on the D850's, but no problem on D810s, or Z7 NEF files that I have in my test folder.

In saying that tho, I do have some issues on this PC(random rebooting/crashing... even at BIOS stage) I think it may be the Nvidia GPU .. not sure.. I'm very close to needing a freshen up anyhow after 7 or so years of bloating it to high heaven! So Will. I know it has nothing to do with the codec with respect to either VNX2(which reminder shouldn't be able to even display D850 NEF files!!) nor related to WPG and the codec. Also not vitally important to have as a feature, but as you add tag data to bulk images in day long sessions, an typo or two is bound to rear it's ugly head every now and then. The ability to edit in Windows Explorer is just a little bit handy.

Like Ann said, it's horrifying(actually worse! .. actually supremely stupid IMO) that Nikon offer the ability to add keywording, but then you can literally do nothing else with it!(other than it's added into a jpg version of the file).
So they assume that the jpg is actually more valuable or important than the NEF file for some reason!
If this is not one of the clearest definitions of stupid! .. I can't imagine what else could be.
Why it's so stupid is that they used to offer a better alternative in ViewNX2 where the keyword tags were saved in the file and then it just goes with the file everywhere the file goes .. and is searchable via whatever software that can do so.

In my case, adding that last tag in the D850 test file via VNX2, then opening Windows Photo Gallery it was immediately indexed into it's database store and I can search for it.

Having the tagged info in a useless sidecar file, that no other software can actually use????:o

I think I've wasted and bored you to exhaustion by now .. but I hope I explained to a reasonable degree.
Arthur

David H. Hartman

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2021, 06:02:42 »
Interesting!
My version of Transfer is 2.14.0(on Windows) and it still embeds the IPTC/Keyword data into the NEF.
My guess is that it could (possibly)be a operating system thing! .. or (more likely??) it could have something to do with the codec installed onto the OS.
I've pretty much always installed the latest version of Nikon's codec if I get a newer camera. Have you installed the Nikon NEF codec? Is one available for MacOSes?

I'll have to make sure I've got the latest Nikon codec installed on both Win10 and macOS High Sierra 10.13.6.

Dave

I like using italics.  :)

I'll respond to more later. I have cockatoo to feed...


It appears that Nikon doesn't offer a codec update for macOS.  :o :o :o
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David H. Hartman

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2021, 07:30:14 »
Why, is that even with the extremely lowly Nikon ViewNX2, you can still embed ITPC data directly into the NEF. Once in the NEF and saved that way, no matter what software you choose to 'search' with, it will see the keywording you just added.

I do not believe the last version of ViewNX2 is compatible with a D850 or even the D810.

Dave

Views embedded JPG, will add keywors but will not develop RAW data (grayed out). More in other's replies below.
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Øivind Tøien

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Re: Help with DAMN! (Digital Assets Management Now! :0)
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2021, 08:01:31 »
Dave, the camera does not need to be fully supported by ViewNX2 to add IPTC information to the files. It will happily add IPTC info to my D500 nefs which are not supported for editing of course. Just turn off the raw viewing button and use the JPG previews in the nefs. (One flaw is that if an image is a 100% zoom, it will give an error message when moving to the next image unless it is the last one previewed, a minor problem).

Thanks for information about the Windows Photo Gallery (combined with NEF codec that I already had) in this thread. While not available from MS any longer I found it here: https://www.filehorse.com/download-windows-photo-gallery/download/ Site looks reasonably safe to me.

Not bad at all, there are quite a few searching options. One missing is the color tags, which I use among other things to tag IR images (red of course, however text search works well enough for that) and sometimes distinguishing among cameras, but that is mostly for sorting at editing stage in CNX-D. Another item I did not see is the ability to select camera based on EXIF. As I have been thinking it is redundant I usually do not include that in the keywords. I am still starting to feel that all that keywording over the years is finally paying off...
Øivind Tøien