NikonGear'23
Images => Life, the Universe & Everything Else => Topic started by: Michael Erlewine on April 09, 2023, 09:06:39
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In response to Birna's post on the future of NikonGear, I'd like to comment. With DPreview gone, and Luminous Landscape (IMO) moribund, we are fast losing some important photography forum sites. I don't want to see that happen, especially with NikonGear. And so, thanks to Birna for bringing this to our attention.
Can someone please remind me of how we contribute now? I thought we were automatically debited some amount each year? Please remind me. And let's raise the amount we contribute so there is not a burden on Birna who has given us so much over the years.
Let's figure this out please.
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Birna and all other friends we will not like to see Nikon gear go!
Simply put what would a new annual contribution mean per person to at least cover expenses?
Thank you, happy Easter holidays.
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It might also help to know
- how many NG Supporters we currently have
- how many NG Members we have who have made a post in the last (say) 6 months
Contributions could potentially come from people currently in either group
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The last count of supporters = 72.
(subscribers are debited an annual subscriber fee of 20 Euros or equivalent, done through Paypal)
Registered members = approx. 2500
Running costs = approx. $2200 and climbing
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The last count of supporters = 72.
(subscribers are debited an annual subscriber fee of 20 Euros or equivalent, done through Paypal)
Registered members = approx. 2500
Running costs = approx. $2200 and climbing
What plans do we have to continue? If the 72 members paid $30 per year we still are short. How about $35 per year or $40?
DPreview is gone, LuLa is not active, Lloyd Chambers is pretty much Medium Format, Thom Hogan is very active and helpful, and Nikon Rumors is useful.
what other forum sites do folks visit and find useful?
And what about the 2500 members? How do we get them to contribute?
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This sounds scary, if all pays only a few euros would be needed.
As many other sites are closing, some sort of information campaign might give the needed paying supporters.
This is a place that must not go away.
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I'm talking to people I konw personally, members but not supporters, that I know can, to give a try to the 20€/year subscription. Awareness about the special community, the no coockies/no advertising policies (thanks!!!!) and the many generous contributions of everybody here. The sense safe heaven. It is not free but it is very close...
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Raising the number of supporters should be the goal. If we can even decrease the amount needed from everyone the awareness will be there.
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it makes not much sense to discuss here, why most people do not understand, that everything they get for free, is paid by someone else
one the other hand, it is a must that Birna and her team do not pay one cent, for creating this excellent platform and knowlegde base
people, who are financially healthy enough to cover cost, should clearly rethink their actual membership
on the other hand, out of the 2500 mentioned members are for sure some, that just seeked an answer to a problem and then forget about the forum until their next problem occurs
my immediate action proposal is: NG team announces cost of 2023 soon and for the following years alway in the autum in advance
for the running period 2 indicator bars are shown beside the logo, which give everybody a clear view, how much of the running cost is existing and how much is covered.
this will increase the awareness of the situation. My hope is, then the 2 following reactions will take place:
1) after a nice meeting, a super support, or any other help form the forum, you may be willing to make extra donation
2) all those who do not want to become supporting member, or are only occassional here, got help, advanced in theirs skills, can give a small donation related to their benefit
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$2200 is extortionate!
I run https://nikondslr.uk for about £25 per year - the cost of the domain registration.
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OK. I'm in. I have two questions:
1--I don't use PayPal. Can I pay using a credit/debit card?
2--How? How do I contribute? I don't see a link to any method of paying (but I'm dense and may just be missing it).
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On 18 March I posted this inquiry in the Site Issues section in the thread Re: Supporter - Membership of Nikon Gear :
I no longer maintain a PayPal account.
I'd very much like to retain my subscriber status at NikonGear.
Is there any alternative to the use of PayPal for supporting Nikon Gear?
Bob
Birna very promptly replied:
I sent a PM to Jan Anne and he should be able to help.
After thanking Birna on that thread I've checked both the "My Messages" section of the board daily as well as looking for an e-mail from Jan Anne or any other of the powers that be here at Nikon Gear.
Truly, I'd like maintain my subscriber status in order to contribute to the upkeep of this site. I became a subscriber due to the civility practiced by members and guests alike as well as the quality of the posted images and depth of technical discussion.
Is an alternative to PayPal available? If not can some other means of payment be arranged?
Thank you,
Bob Foster
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OK. I'm in. I have two questions:
1--I don't use PayPal. Can I pay using a credit/debit card?
2--How? How do I contribute? I don't see a link to any method of paying (but I'm dense and may just be missing it).
When you have logged in, look at the bottom of the yellow banner. You will see assorted options including Home, Search, My Messages, etc.
Click on Profile and select Summary.
Just below the banner you will now see three options, one of which is Profile Actions. Click on that and the top option is Paid Subscriptions.
Payment might be made through PayPal but you do not need an account; a credit card will do nicely.
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Thank you Ian.
Despite the "button" being labeled "Order with PayPal" I was able to renew my subscription for another year. Yes, PayPal is the agent/means of making the payment but apparently maintaining a PayPal account is not necessary.
Bob
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Thank, Ian.
I am now a subscriber!
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Thanks for all the Information ,
I am now a supporter too
Jœrgen
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The NG is the only forum I think worth subscribing with payment.
Compared to the cost for the photo editor I subscribe (photographer plan of Adobe CC), the subscription fee for NG is very modest, I think.
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I'm just a lurker on this forum, but now I'm a supporting lurker...
Thx for the heads up.
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I have just renewed my Nikongear supporter subscription :)
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The server cost does seem astronomical. Seems logical that as well as increasing the number of paying members, the forum ought to be moved to a cheaper locale.
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I have just started frequenting this forum more than I have in the past so I just became a supporter as well. Thank you for letting us know.
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We will not raise the subscription fee above the current value of 20 Euros/year. If anything given a sufficient amount of subscribers, the figure ought to be lowered. NG is not run for commercial purposes.
As to costs of web hosting, remember there now is VAT to be paid and that the server handles a significant bandwidth load. There are a lot of other aspects, domain maintenance, and server features required that reflect in the price. The general price hike has been substantial over the last years, though.
The admins do pay attention to suggestions provided here and elsewhere, but in the end, economy will control the future of NG. A steady trickle of subscriptions is preferred over donations and in fact we would not accept the latter.
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I don't see an option for an automatic annual payment; am I missing something here?
Where annual payments rely on the likes of my flawed memory, things slip through the cracks as it were. I am not personally averse to signing up for an annual automatic subscription payment if there is an easy way of so doing.
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The renewal of subscriptions through Paypal should be automatic. At least it is for me? (and yes, like anyone else, I also pay the subscription).
Andrea wrote a thread on that topic here https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=8715.0
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I don't see an option for an automatic annual payment; am I missing something here?
Where annual payments rely on the likes of my flawed memory, things slip through the cracks as it were. I am not personally averse to signing up for an annual automatic subscription payment if there is an easy way of so doing.
I think it comes down to a setting on the PayPal web site. I paid the subscription for a year, but only noticed it wasn’t automatically renewed when I couldn’t start a forum thread. I went back to PayPal and paid again, but for the life of me I can’t remember the settings there about automatically paying each year.
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Back in the dark ages I maintained a website that included a BBS for an employer. I can attest to the fact that there is a not insignificant amount of labor involved . Even placing setup and software maintenance aside, the time invested by the principals here in the daily oversight of NG may not be burdensome but cumulatively represents an investment in our community. I give my thanks to the crew that has made and maintains Nikon Gear Revival.
Bob
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Thanks Richard. Any help in this matter would be gratefully received by me and no doubt others here.
I think it comes down to a setting on the PayPal web site. I paid the subscription for a year, but only noticed it wasn’t automatically renewed when I couldn’t start a forum thread. I went back to PayPal and paid again, but for the life of me I can’t remember the settings there about automatically paying each year.
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I don't see an option for an automatic annual payment; am I missing something here?
Where annual payments rely on the likes of my flawed memory, things slip through the cracks as it were. I am not personally averse to signing up for an annual automatic subscription payment if there is an easy way of so doing.
I have the same issue with memory. Personally, I do not need an automatic renewal but DID appreciate it when I would get a message around the time of renewal. That feature seems to have dropped off the platform and I had to check from this thread to see that mine subscription has expired.
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I am new-ish to the forum but have gotten so much out of it. Now a happy supporter too. Thank you!
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Thank you all who joins, rejoins and supports our community here on NikonGear!
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Is there any value in sending a short email to the 2,500 people who haven't subscribed?
(doesn't need to be "pushy")
At the moment, they'll only know the situation when they next log in.
I'm sure at least a few of them might happily subscribe if they knew.
Just a thought....
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Is there any value in sending a short email to the 2,500 people who haven't subscribed?
(doesn't need to be "pushy")
At the moment, they'll only know the situation when they next log in.
I'm sure at least a few of them might happily subscribe if they knew.
Just a thought....
Thank you!
This is definitely a very important topic and for sure we will look into what we can do to keep NikonGear up and running.
JA ensures me more subscriptions has been paid already! Thank you all for the support!
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I have the same issue with memory. Personally, I do not need an automatic renewal but DID appreciate it when I would get a message around the time of renewal. That feature seems to have dropped off the platform and I had to check from this thread to see that mine subscription has expired.
I also missed a reminder. I've now payed my supporter fee and added a yearly reminder in my personal Agenda. Simple and effective.
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Luc, that is what I have also ended up doing.
I also missed a reminder. I've now payed my supporter fee and added a yearly reminder in my personal Agenda. Simple and effective.
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If people are visiting NG on a more regular basis, they should also appreciate the need for having a solid funding for running the site. We don't making it compulsory to be a subscriber if you post images or otherwise use site resources. Let your conscience be the necessary guide.
It is at present unlikely we'll send out mass "beggar" mails. What we might hope for is the future number of supporters increase to a level at which subscription fee can be slashed significantly.
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If people are visiting NG on a more regular basis, they should also appreciate the need for having a solid funding for running the site. We don't making it compulsory to be a subscriber if you post images or otherwise use site resources. Let your conscience be the necessary guide.
It is at present unlikely we'll send out mass "beggar" mails. What we might hope for is the future number of supporters increase to a level at which subscription fee can be slashed significantly.
While I can appreciate that you don't want to send out a couple thousand "beggar" e-mails. What about a simple reminder for those of us who have, and are, supporters but don't track dates that well. How about something simple like a reminder positioned around the login/greeting:
"supporter status is active thru: date"
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Maybe send out a reminder message to everyone in about 12 months time since many people have renewed their subscriptions in the last week or so?
While I can appreciate that you don't want to send out a couple thousand "beggar" e-mails. What about a simple reminder for those of us who have, and are, supporters but don't track dates that well. How about something simple like a reminder positioned around the login/greeting:
"supporter status is active thru: date"
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When the subscription isn't renewed, the member loses the double yellow marks, and is shown in black not yellow font Thus the status change should be pretty obvious?.
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That is how I tend to remember but it does not work for our subscribing lurkers.
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Might be helpful if there were a highly visible link for new subscriptions, and an easy way to gift a subscription or two.
I’m seldom much of a contributor here, being a bit shy to post for no good reason, but I’ll remain a supporter until the end—whether mine or this site’s.
I enjoy the images and information and personalities, and especially the civil discourse. This is a community to be treasured (even from the periphery) and preserved.
Whenever someone leaves or is absent for periods, or passes away, I feel a sad, even though I don’t really know anyone here and no one knows me—sadness compounded if this community passes.
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I became aware that I was not a paying member anymore. So this has now been renewed. Knowing that I’m systematically refusing automatic renewals. Next time, I will to have to put a reminder to renew my subscription.
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If I remember and understand correctly, the posters name shown at the above-left corner of each post will turn from orange to brown when the annual subscription is expired.
So, posting even sparsely could be a good way to know when to renew the subscription. :)
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I have been looking at PayPal again, and I can’t see any way to set up automatic payment each year. Has anyone else managed to set it up?
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I have been looking at PayPal again, and I can’t see any way to set up automatic payment each year. Has anyone else managed to set it up?
When subscribing there is a checkmark to renew it automatically each year.
This was the default setting when setting up the payment mechanism in 2015 but this surprised some supporters in various ways, some did not want to extend and others extended twice by also doing it manually with subscriptions running till 2026+ as the automation simply extends the NG Supporter subscription period after each received payment. We refunded the additional payments after checking with the subscribers what to do.
So the automatic extension was made an opt-in feature a few years ago instead of an opt-out feature and we did not receive a complaint since about the double payments.
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I am a mostly lurker, sometimes poster. I am truly inspired in the art, craft, and science of photography by the people here, many who post daily or near daily. That inspiration and education is worth more than 20 EUR (less than 2 per month!) to me and I have other photography and media expenses that are far higher. I suspect there are many here who are willing to contribute more. Earlier in the thread there was a point about displaying the "health" of the forum (I am paraphrasing) and I think that or similar would be good.
If some of us want to support at a higher level, how do we do that?
Thanks to the whole NG team especially Birna!
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The NG forum will thrive well with say 150 paying supporters. At present we are around 90.
I think all supporters should contribute equal. If you really want to contribute more, why not invite a friend to NG and pay for his or her subscription?
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When you have logged in, look at the bottom of the yellow banner. You will see assorted options including Home, Search, My Messages, etc.
Click on Profile and select Summary.
Just below the banner you will now see three options, one of which is Profile Actions. Click on that and the top option is Paid Subscriptions.
Payment might be made through PayPal but you do not need an account; a credit card will do nicely.
Ian, thanks for the guidance.
Anyone have any clues how to bypass Paypal? For some reason I'm being "forced" to create a PayPal account when I try to pay with a credit card - the credit card payment is not accepted unless I also provide information for creating an account and accepting terms.
I've found this guide:
Even if you do not have a PayPal account, you can still pay with your debit or credit card as a guest by clicking on the Pay with Debit or Credit Card option as a guest.
... but I see no options indicating "..pay as a guest.."
Clues anyone?
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Perhaps you could clear any web cookies related to Paypal and NG, and try again?
Several members have asked for an indication of our status, and I now have added that as a subfield to the standard News headline. The aim is 150 supporters, however that aim might change in either direction in the future.
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Perhaps you could clear any web cookies related to Paypal and NG, and try again?
Several members have asked for an indication of our status, and I now have added that as a subfield to the standard News headline. The aim is 150 supporters, however that aim might change in either direction in the future.
Thanks for the suggestion Birna - makes sense, but unfortunately no change after deleting the cookies.
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Lars, is there no "pay with credit or debit card" option? It may not say "pay as a guest" but if the "credit/debit" option is available you can just click it and it will allow you to bypass Paypal's pay option.
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Lars, is there no "pay with credit or debit card" option? It may not say "pay as a guest" but if the "credit/debit" option is available you can just click it and it will allow you to bypass Paypal's pay option.
Thanks for helping Dogman. Yes, there is a credit card option, but not without being forced to create a PayPal account at the same time. However, I've gone through the payment process a few times more and it turns out that it's related to nationality (I'm in Denmark) - if I switch to, say US, then the screen changes and (second screen) there is a Pay as guest option. See below.
The last screen, Danish, says "Create a PayPal account" - button says "Accept and Pay". So, apparently the Pay as guest isn't available in Denmark.
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Never mind.
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Whatever is on a member's mind is worth describing or asking here on NG.
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Thanks Lars - this is useful to know - not only for NG payments, but for other payments as well.
Thanks for helping Dogman. Yes, there is a credit card option, but not without being forced to create a PayPal account at the same time. However, I've gone through the payment process a few times more and it turns out that it's related to nationality (I'm in Denmark) - if I switch to, say US, then the screen changes and (second screen) there is a Pay as guest option. See below.
The last screen, Danish, says "Create a PayPal account" - button says "Accept and Pay". So, apparently the Pay as guest isn't available in Denmark.
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After several hundred posts to NikonGear, it is now time for me to join the paid subscribers club and contribute to the expenses.
I just paid the subscription, in the Italian Paypal page (launched by the NikonGear Subscription page) there are two buttons:
ACCESS PAYPAL
and
PAY WITH A CREDIT CARD
so, I Accessed Paypal and paid with Paypal, using the associated credit card. Simple and painless. If I hadn't had a PP Account, I could just as well have paid with my credit card as a guest.
I am going to add the date Apr.22, 2024 to my memo service, it will start reminding me it's time to renew my subscription on Mar 22, 2024, and every week until the event. Also very simple 8)
I noticed my status has already changed from NG Member to NG Supporter (and two yellow squares instead of one). I have paid 5 minutes ago...
The STATUS line at the top of the page still indicates 89/150 paid subscriptions. Confident it will be updated soon!
Ciao from Massimo
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The news headline status has to be updated manually. I usually check the status before going to bed :)
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I thought I was on auto-renew, but it had quit...2021 being the last time it autopaid. Fixed now, but I'll check in a year.
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Auto-renew is on the PayPal side of things ....
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Seems stuck in a rut in the low 90s now. I really can’t see any way it can hit 150 :-(
With that in mind, is there a way to make 100 financially viable?
I don’t want to challenge the current admin, but the stated running costs seem a HUGE leap above what is the norm. Hosting is relatively cheap, and there are several open source forum solutions.
Again, I want to say that I am not challenging admin, but … surely there is a way to easily reduce running costs?
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Costs for hosting have increased nearly 50% over the last years. Remember we initially didn't pay VAT. Plus we need funds for domain registration/renewal, mail services etc.
We have had > 150 paying subscribers before, so the goal is not far-fetched.
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Dear NikonGear friends,
Renewed my membership just now. It's been crazy few years, so hobbies took a back seat. In the process, I missed a lot of communications and among them was the Birna's 'Response to the Future of NikonGear.net/.com/.org'.
K.
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Renewed a few days ago.
Nothing is free on the internet - if you don't pay, you are the commodity, or more precisely, your personal data and behaviour are monetised.
Appreciate a lot that NG is free of that!
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So did I.
The subscription is nothing compared with the inspiration and knowledge found here. The fact that it relies solely on its members is a big part of what makes it special.
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104
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Indeed. Heartfelt thanks go to all of our supporters. :) [I' m a supporter myself]
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Renewed too, would hate to see Nikongear go.
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I think I'm not a supporter (having been away and essentially out of it) but I will figure it out and re-join this PM.
I miss these familiar faces.
(Thanks to Birna for suggesting that I would not be unwelcome.)
Lew
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I read above thast we are at current status: 106/150 supporters ... much better, but not yet good enough
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The figure rises slowly. Currently at 107 supporters.
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Pardon me if this has already been addressed somewhere, but has the move to a new server (host?) had any impact on the cost of running the site?
The large gap between the number of supporters and 150 always makes me worry …
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The move was necessary simply because our old hosting service became too expensive. Towards the end of the lease I sometimes had to use funds out of my own pockets. With the move, we were able to cut down on costs, so running NG should be feasible at least 1 year more. However, balancing on a tight line is never pleasant and comfortable.
Thanks for asking, by the way.
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With DPreview gone, and Luminous Landscape (IMO) moribund, we are fast losing some important photography forum sites. I don't want to see that happen, especially with NikonGear.
Hello, the question is why are they dying? And where are the young members and newcomers? What has changed?
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I agree. The iPhone and Android phones are satisfying the need for photos for the masses. Only the odd bird like myself wants to have ultra-expensive cameras and lenses. And my experience with photo forums is that most pro photographers are unhappy and having not the time of their lives.
And then there is the deluge of new lenses, if not cameras, each inching up the price. Personally, I used to be on top of about all macro or closeup lenses that would fit the Nikons, but there are too many AND I have enough good lenses already.
We are witnessing the end of an era, and the new era has not yet dawned.
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Hello, the question is why are they dying? And where are the young members and newcomers? What has changed?
It may be that younger people do not favour these traditional internet fora. Is it just fashion? Or, as Michael suggested, are we witnessing the end of an era?
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It may be that younger people do not favour these traditional internet fora. Is it just fashion? Or, as Michael suggested, are we witnessing the end of an era?
That would mean that the ngf is dying with its old members?
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Hello, the question is why are they dying? And where are the young members and newcomers? What has changed?
In 2023, DP Review was temporarily dead, as Amazon had dumped it. It was soon picked up by another owner and has continued to function as before. Lula had also slowed down, but as of 2025 remains active.
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It may be that younger people do not favour these traditional internet fora. Is it just fashion? Or, as Michael suggested, are we witnessing the end of an era?
Both. The age of the users of DP Review now skews older, based on my reading of the posts in their Nikon forums. The teenagers /young adults are somewhere else. Social media photo groups? It may be that "old fashioned" still photography is less interesting to them, as they have been surrounded by easy automated digital photos most/all of their lives.
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It may also be that "old fashioned" still photography is less interesting to them,
We should try to rejuvenate this photography and making the ngf more attractive. Photography should not be old-fashioned.
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It's not about whether photography is older or more modern, classic or contemporary, I think this forum is about two things, first the photos and then the comments, and the forum doesn't respond to the comments, it's usually as if the photos don't suggest anything, and maybe that's why the number of members doesn't increase. Not at first, but over time it gets frustrating and people lose motivation.
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It's not about whether photography is older or more modern, classic or contemporary,
I agree, only the quality is important
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I think we are seeing a long distance view of a generational change.
The newer generations who have bought the millions of dslrs and phones with cameras, are in whose numbers swamp the relatively few of us that are actually really interested in the effort of learning and practicing.
Newer generations, on the whole, don't seem to want to be put the real effort needed to learn the intricacies and they see editing or post-processing as generally slapping on a 'filter'. The most disappointing segment is those who think that street photography is all shadows and angles or pictures taken of nothing.
That being said, the willingness of people to buy software has encouraged some amazing advances in post-processing software.
This image below is perhaps an attorney or a fortune teller in a marketplace near Bien Hoa, Vietnam, taken in 1967 and scanned from a fading color slide.
The original was a shot I would have discarded as being poorly exposed and so OOF as to be unusable.
Some work in LR and some extra focus recovering of the subject using Topaz AI made this, if not perfect, viewable.
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In my opinion we(the forum) need new or old supporting members, and of course generally more new and young members.
The ngf must get a magnet for photographers.
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Remembering Birna's comment on the long term financial viability of NG, we indeed need new (paying) members. The main difficulty I see with young members is the zero discoverability of NG on the platforms they use. Unless we do post something there with a link here, I don't think they will find their way to NG.
I don't know how to do that effectively. On Twitter, despite having only 79 followers, I'm getting 200 or 300 views and 10% of that in reactions (likes, reposts or comments), but that's through hashtags, same on BlueSky, and hashtags don't point to links. Getting them to click on a link will not be easy.
That said, what's unique here is the knowledge available and how easily it is to get a very well informed answer to problems you may have. You don't get that on the other platforms. If we could advertise that ...
Sorry, ramblings :)
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Bruno, agreed.
However we may need to face the reality that the "New" NG forum has been running for many years now, and there has been no fee increases in that time, so maybe now is the time to review fees.
Yes, no one likes fee increases and it can be argued that they may be a deterrent to new members joining.
However I would like to point out that many of us (me included) have acquired new cameras and/or lenses over the last year and it hardly needs to be pointed out that the price of a new cell/mobile phone can be as much as a basic new mirror less camera and kit lens, so even the cell/mobile phone brigade can hardly cry poor! An Apple iPhone 16 Max Pro with 1TB memory is around $A3k here in Australia.
My point is that for a few Euros extra, ongoing subscription to this site seems like bloody good value to me!
Stop being mean folks, sometimes wallets need to be unzipped!
Remembering Birna's comment on the long term financial viability of NG, we indeed need new (paying) members. ...............
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However we may need to face the reality that the "New" NG forum has been running for many years now, and there has been no fee increases in that time, so maybe now is the time to review fees.
Even Adobe is raising their fees, so there is precedent :)
My point is that for a few Euros extra, ongoing subscription to this site seems like bloody good value to me!
And how! For reference, a year ago Photography Life stopped allowing all adverts and asked people to pay for memberships. The regular site is still free (assuming there are enough paying members!) but members enjoy extra perks. It was a sink-or-swim choice on their part and enough people stepped up to make it viable. I pay $7 per month quite happily.
NikonGear is more valuable to me!
Stop being mean folks, sometimes wallets need to be unzipped!
To be fair, the main impediment is Birna's reluctance to raise the fees. Perhaps we could try accepting donations from those willing to pay extra?
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I am not in a high-income bracket, not even middle class by American standards. €20 is cheap. It could be raised to, say, €30. Others here may have other ideas?
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I am not in a high-income bracket, not even middle class by American standards. €20 is cheap. It could be raised to, say, €30. Others here may have other ideas?
The same here. And I made the same proposal on another thread, despite JPY is way too weak...
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I am not in a high-income bracket, not even middle class by American standards. €20 is cheap. It could be raised to, say, €30. Others here may have other ideas?
€30 would be very o.k. for me too. This would virtually raise member count to 140
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30€ is less than any photo trinket I bought last year, mem card, battery or a CPL. It is on par with the entrance fee to Elliott Erwitt's expo, train ticket included, and here, I get live comments from the photographer :)
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The main difficulty I see with young members is the zero discoverability of NG on the platforms they use. Unless we do post something there with a link here, I don't think they will find their way to NG.
500 visitors per day, not bad, and 2500(?) members have found the ngf. And only 100 members finance it, or 120? I do not know the exact numbers.
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At present, 93 paying supporters. There are approx. 2500 registered members and the site has up to 5000 visits per day.
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Do you know where they are coming from? Search, direct access?
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At present, 93 paying supporters. There are approx. 2500 registered members and the site has up to 5000 visits per day.
This is a little bit unbalanced
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I would be happy to pay €30 pa.
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I would be happy to pay €30 pa.
If it continues like this the next step could be 40€, and 50€ etc.
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Yes we could expect this increase by 10€,,, for every 10 year - Quite reasonable IMHO.
Please not I'm part og the NikonGear Crew 8)
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Yes we could expect this increase by 10€,,, for every 10 year - Quite reasonable IMHO.
That means fewer and fewer supporting members and more fee? Vice versa could be the other option.
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I would be happy to pay €30 pa.
me too
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If it continues like this the next step could be 40€, and 50€ etc.
We did not raise sice we started the thing
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That means fewer and fewer supporting members and more fee? Vice versa could be the other option.
My thoughts exactly. We cannot "save" NG by raising the annual subscription fee. What is needed should be more subscribers and more active participation from any member group, be they supporters or not.
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My thoughts exactly. We cannot "save" NG by raising the annual subscription fee. What is needed should be more subscribers and more active participation from any member group, be they supporters or not.
I don't think that raising the membership fee would reduce the number of supporters, but unfortunately nobody can know that in advance.
On the other hand, I think the fact that NG needs paying supporters to survive isn't communicated enough. Why is there no notice in a prominent place on the homepage saying that NG needs paying supporters for its continued existence?
I can imagine that many of the NG members don't even know that it is the contributions that make NG possible. Since membership status is free, I also suspect that many of the more than 2000 members are not active at all.
Is it actually possible to voluntarily pay a higher contribution than 20 euros? Then every supporter could answer the question about the need for higher contributions for themselves.
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My thoughts exactly. We cannot "save" NG by raising the annual subscription fee. What is needed should be more subscribers and more active participation from any member group, be they supporters or not.
I see it the same way.
But this is a discussion among supporters, it seems so that the other members do not worry about the future of the ngf.
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My thoughts exactly. We cannot "save" NG by raising the annual subscription fee. What is needed should be more subscribers and more active participation from any member group, be they supporters or not.
I admire that attitude very much Birna! And i agree with what really is the culprit/needs to happen.
However, NG needs to survive first, i'd say. If that means a (perhaps temporary) increase of the member fee, i'm all for it.
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Everybody can make a donation at any time without increasing the fee.
But money is not the solution for more interested photographers.
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Yes, I approve of what it takes for NikonGear.net to survive. Perhaps this is not the place or time, yet why is this happening, this diminishing of photography sites and forums.
Dpreview is on life support, as is Fotozones, and many others. I can go to a good number of sites and the posts that were there months ago have hardly been succeeded. Obviously, this is indicative of something beyond just our problem here.
Is it the triumph of the mobile phone camera finally taking hold? Is it the plethora of new lenses and whatever that folks can’t or don’t want to keep up with? Are many of us forum types just growing old?
I had a similar experience. I photographed five music festivals this past summer, quite thoroughly (thousands of photos), and for two of them it was their last festival. They were shutting down after some 30 or so years, each.
I was talking to another old-timer like myself, in my case going back to the mid-1960s for such events. And we were talking about why folks are not coming out for these festivals any longer. I mean, what’s not to like, being outdoors, sitting on a blanket, watching some class acts performing music?
And I pointed out that my kids like festivals, when my friend pointed out, “Maybe so, but our kid’s kids do not.” The idea of going out in the cold mornings and hot days, sitting on the grass or ground on a blanket, with the black flies, etc. and listening to music does not appeal as much to our grandchildren as it did with us. They apparently have other fish to fry, so to speak.
And so, we might want to examine what is happening that photography forums are declining. Any suggestions?
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Me too Anthony.
And I take the point that one can always include a donation payment at anytime.
I would be happy to pay €30 pa.
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Me too Anthony.
And I take the point that one can always include a donation payment at anytime.
I could not find out, how to make a donation to NG. I went to "profile info -> modify profile -> actions –> order" but a 20€ paypal payment just resulted in prolonging my subscription into the year 2026. So, anyone can tell me how to make a donation th NG?
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Lovely thoughts Michael and an interesting comparison with music festivals
And so, we might want to examine what is happening that photography forums are declining. Any suggestions?
So.
I've always visited forums like this one to
- Find out things
- Learn about new products
- Get inspired by the ideas and work of others
- Get feedback from others on my own ideas and creative output
Note, this could apply to photography, music, poetry etc
When trying to establish the decline in use of forums, what puzzles me is:
Where do people now go to satisfy the needs I've listed above?
Also new people are only going to find their way to Nikongear through
- A search engine
- A link somewhere else, like social media
We can't influence search engines much, but we each have the ability to share links to (for example) Facebook, "X", Instagram etc
Any thoughts on any of the above?
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YouTube is another possibility. I am sure Grey’s of Westminster would be happy to do a piece about it - if approached.
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Also new people are only going to find their way to Nikongear through
- A search engine
- A link somewhere else, like social media
We can't influence search engines much, but we each have the ability to share links to (for example) Facebook, "X", Instagram etc
Any thoughts on any of the above?
I'm writing a long piece with several follow up which I'll publish here and promote on my X, Bluesky and IG accounts. I also intend to "social post" pictures taken with the Heligon 42mm with a link to the post I wrote here several years ago explaining how to make it "camera ready".
I'm interested in seeing what happens.
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I'm writing a long piece with several follow up which I'll publish here and promote on my X, Bluesky and IG accounts. I also intend to "social post" pictures taken with the Heligon 42mm with a link to the post I wrote here several years ago explaining how to make it "camera ready".
I'm interested in seeing what happens.
1) If we increase unpaid for traffic I guess that the costs will go up at first. So we should encourage people to become paying members
2) more "newbies" will mean more moderation is necessary to accomodate people from "all walks of the net" to the ONE PLACE with next to no TROLLS
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I could not find out, how to make a donation to NG. I went to "profile info -> modify profile -> actions –> order" but a 20€ paypal payment just resulted in prolonging my subscription into the year 2026. So, anyone can tell me how to make a donation th NG?
My impression is that we send our money to the Paypal-Address: nikongear***2015***gmail***com where you have to replace the first three stars with nothing, the second with the at-sign and the third with a dot
I guess noone will be unhappy if we donate to this Paypal-Address, I will do it right away!
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Sie haben 200,00 EUR an nikongear2015***gmail***com gesendet.
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Thank you Frank ;D
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My impression is that we send our money to the Paypal-Address: nikongear***2015***gmail***com where you have to replace the first three stars with nothing, the second with the at-sign and the third with a dot
I guess noone will be unhappy if we donate to this Paypal-Address, I will do it right away!
I couldn't find this gmail address anywhere on the Nikongear website. While I'm sure you wouldn't send 200 euros to an address you don't know, I would feel more comfortable if the address for donations was listed on the NG website.
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I couldn't find this gmail address anywhere on the Nikongear website. While I'm sure you wouldn't send 200 euros to an address you don't know, I would feel more comfortable if the address for donations was listed on the NG website.
Look it up in Paypal.
It is the Paypal-Account you pay your subscription to.
You pay to exactly the same account as you pay your subscription
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Thank you Frank, done.
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Thanks to all for any contributions you make :)
Do keep in mind that participation in NG activities is the most valuable currency so to speak. That reaches beyond posting images - we also need discussions and interchange of opinions, suggestions of targets for trips and meet-ups, and whatever else occupies photographers' mindset. All within the framework of NG Guide Lines, of course. The NG admins don't want to step in to moderate exchanges more than absolutely necessary, and rather not at all.
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Thank you, Frank!
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NG makes advertisement for Nikon cameras and lenses, the Nikon company should get a supporter.
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NG makes advertisement for Nikon cameras and lenses, the Nikon company should get a supporter.
We say that we are "brand agnostic". I for example have at least 3 Camera systems: (Fuji), Sinar, Olympus, Nikon plus my Google phone
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Whilst I'm a heavy Nikon user, there are also Panasonic, Olympus, Sony, and Fuji cameras and lenses floating around here. Plus various microscope objectives. These items are used whenever their special properties and capabilities are called for. There even are a couple of Canon optics to be seen.
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Perhaps it would help to somehow put the 'brand agnostic' signifier clearly on the landing page, for those who are discovering it anew, and maybe think it's a a Nikon fan site?
The name "Nikongear" is what they now call a "legacy" name, initially signifying who is involved, since this forum was spun off (or broken away?) from another forum.
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I've taken the first steps towards your suggestion. Good idea.
Fixing the initial landing page is a little more involved, but will do. Done
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and maybe think it's a a Nikon fan site?
Isnt it a fan site, why was it called NikonGear and not PhotoGear?
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History. Or as Keith succinctly put it, a "legacy" name.
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Attracting new users
I've taken the first steps towards your suggestion. Good idea.
Fixing the initial landing page is a little more involved, but will do. Done
This will help anyone who stumbles upon us that isnt a Nikon user
But how can we get more people to search for us?
By having useful posts, "how-to's" and images that other potential members will be drawn to.
We already have the material - in spades
How do we attract other people?
How about a stealth approach:
- For example, Michael Erlewine has, over the years, posted countless detailed & fascinating threads.
Today he posted one on the Hasselblad X2D, commenting on how few others use it. - I did a quick google and found three other sites with items or reviews of it.
Posting comments on other sites that has a link to items on Nikongear, could well draw those users in
Obviously the Hasselblad is very specialised, but as an idea, what do you think?
I'm sure there are several good threads where the person interested needn't be a Nikon user to get drawn to us.
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Well, a really simple way would be to change our banner, with a running headline of all the cameras or systems we cover or post about, a simple band like:
Nikon - Sony - Canon -Hasselblad -- etc.
This would tell folks there is stuff here.
The truth is there are a bunch of us 'getting older' photographers that mostly talk about the same old topics, with very few new (much less younger) folks joining us.
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Good idea to change the banner, relatively simple and self explanatory
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Good idea to post comments on other sites with links to here, Colin.
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There is more to it, what needs is more interaction, comments, reviews, just "human behaviour" (compassion) like in the early days!
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The truth is there are a bunch of us 'getting older' photographers that mostly talk about the same old topics, with very few new (much less younger) folks joining us.
Unfortunetately this is the main topic
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With 750 guests online as I write this it seems the focus should be on how to encourage them to become members > before attracting fresh eyeballs. ??? ??? ???
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There is more to it, what needs is more interaction, comments, reviews, just "human behaviour" (compassion) like in the early days!
Yes, more activity leads to increased interaction.
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Make it more visible why members should be interested in becoming supporters. Maybe introduce a free trial period.
I became a supporter to support this site financially to keep it running after a very long period of being a member - I'm not sure what the benefits are and where to find that information. To me, one obvious and important reason is that we are not spammed with ads!
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I became a supporter to support this site financially to keep it running after a very long period of being a member -!
Me too, is this a solution?
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Here is a little more detail. Please don’t shoot the messenger.
Well, having been around the Internet looking for and at photo forums and sites, NikonGear is doing pretty well compared to the competition. Some others are more active, yet they also are more nationalistic and territorial, so much that I can’t go there.
For example, I’ve seen about everything on Hasselblad that exists on the Internet, and in a word, the coverage is pitiful. And NikonGear is not any better vis-à-vis Hasselblad because so few have that camera or even want one.
Aside from its obvious failings and warts, the Hasselblad X2D is an incredible camera, IMO.
The only photographers that cover Hasselblad pretty thoroughly (and he is behind a pay wall) is Lloyd Chambers, and many don’t like him because of the paywall or his focus on landscapes, which is very demanding of any lens, etc. And there is Vieri Bottazzini and he has moved on to an even larger sensor than Hasselblad, the PhaseOne.
Thom Hogan does a good job reviewing Nikon lenses and I trust his reviews as I do Birna’s reviews.
For my two cents, I believe we subscribers could be more welcoming and friendly to ‘outsiders’, which could become insiders with a little TLC.
I don’t post much here anymore because most are not interested in my approach and now there is about zero interest in the Hasselblad. I still have a full Nikon system with many of the best lenses that can be mounted.
I have been with NikonGear for many years and value it. I wish we had get-togethers with NikonGear folks here in the states as you folks do over there.
I am in northern-west Michigan in the Lower Peninsuala and have floated, now long ago, having a meeting at our center
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Make it more visible why members should be interested in becoming supporters. Maybe introduce a free trial period.
I became a supporter to support this site financially to keep it running after a very long period of being a member - I'm not sure what the benefits are and where to find that information. To me, one obvious and important reason is that we are not spammed with ads!
My own view is that a free trial period is not enough. What is needed is, as others have pointed out, interaction and comradarie, having fun and making new friends. Also, look at the plethora of new equipment. No one can keep up with that. So, what is our function? Perhaps we could make that clear to others, and also to ourselves.
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Most of the comments posted are about what to do once people have visited the site.
Not about how are you going to persuade or tempt them to come here in the first place?
My suggestion (https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=10681.msg205185#msg205185) earlier was about that.
Good idea to post comments on other sites with links to here, Colin.
Thanks Bruno.
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Most of the comments posted are about what to do once people have visited the site.
Not about how are you going to persuade or tempt them to come here in the first place?
My suggestion (https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=10681.msg205185#msg205185) earlier was about that.
Thanks Bruno.
I hear you, and agree that it is what we do here with one another that determines whether someone want to become a subscriber.
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Here is a photo to scare the hell out of us, one of some 15,000 images I have created by prompting the Midjourney AI graphic engine. I'm getting pretty good at it. AI is not going away.
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Michael, Out of purely idle curiosity, what was the verbal prompt that generated this particular image?
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Michael, Out of purely idle curiosity, what was the verbal prompt that generated this particular image?
I don't save the prompts and with some 15,000 I don't have them. Also the process of prompting is iterative. I try to prompt into the ballbark of what I am looking at and then fine tune it. I have met a number of folks who use Midjourney and think they are making great art.
I have always use Midjourney as an illustrator. I blog to about 20,000 people a day for my posts I like to have a graphic. I used to have to license graphics to illustrate my work, but Midjourney provides better illustrations than licensing because I can tailor each illustration to exactly what I want. It has saved me a lot of money.
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I believe we subscribers could be more welcoming and friendly to ‘outsiders’, which could become insiders with a little TLC.
There should be no difference between "outsiders" and "subscrivers" or "insiders". NG shouldt not be like an old pub table reserved for the regulars.
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I suggest to change the disclaimer to
The ad-free user-supported site for all brand name photo enthusiasts
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I suggest to change the disclaimer to
The ad-free user-supported site for all brand name photo enthusiasts
Frank, that disclaimer, IMO, is not as good as naming a few camera systems.
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Quote from: Lars Hansen on January 27, 2025, 20:37:25
I became a supporter to support this site financially to keep it running after a very long period of being a member -!
Me too, is this a solution?
Karl, I'm not sure I understand what you mean about a solution? My point is that I didn't become a supporter because of the advantages/benefits that follows and I obviously haven't missed them.
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Most of the comments posted are about what to do once people have visited the site.
Not about how are you going to persuade or tempt them to come here in the first place?
I have no better suggestions than what have been posted - but to have visitors become members and members become supporters .. and stay .. is also a concern is my impression.
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Well, you post links to NikonGear on other sties for key articles, within reason. Some sites will ban you for advertising yourself, so you might have to fudge the link wih comments about the article when that site has a similar topic, then it should work.
In my experience there are not a ton of good sites out there, certainly not ones of the caliber of NikonGear. Some other sites are rabid to attack anything at all.
I agree that NikonGear is great, but IMO not as good as it was, which means we should keep brainstorming, but more important is to have significant conversations and make friends.
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Well, you post links to NikonGear on other sties for key articles, within reason. Some sites will ban you for advertising yourself, so you might have fudge the link wih comments about the article when that site has a similar topic, then it should work.
In my experience there are not a ton of good sites out there, certainly not ones of the caliber of NikonGear. Some other sites are rabid to attack anything at all.
I agree that NikonGear is great, but IMO not as good as it was, which means we should keep brainstorming, but more important is to have significant conversations and make friends.
Many thanks for elaborating, Michael.
I guess we also don't like those who advertise for themselves here on NG ;)
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There should be no difference between "outsiders" and "subscrivers" or "insiders". NG shouldt not be like an old pub table reserved for the regulars.
It's not my impression there are, but we have different interests in the subjects we like to photograph and watch from other members, so I guess we tend to comment and discuss with like-minded members.
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It's not my impression there are, but we have different interests in the subjects we like to photograph and watch from other members, so I guess we tend to comment and discuss with like-minded members.
LOL. I hear you but that is just what is the case. Many of us have been here for years and years, so the old table at the local bar is a good quip.
It is like that. I even feel like an outsider because I am American, often. Of course, those of you in the center would perhaps not realize what being on the outside feels like. My guess is the NikonGear is just feeling what most forums feel like these days. Either it is slash and burn and put other people you don't like down or hang together.
I feel more welcome at Luminous Landscape yet they post about nothing. Fred Miranda is, IMO, a closed crowd where a few bullies hate and criticise what they don't like.
The odd tiny forum is struggling along. I believe photography is struggling along, buffeted by mobile phones which keep getting better and better. No, mobile phones are not a match for DSLRs or mirrorless major cameras, but they are good enough for more and more people.
I wish I knew the answer, but we may be beyond the pale, so to speak. I well remember when I first began doing focus stacking, being put down and made fun of right here on Nikon Gear. Now I am also experiencing with AE graphics, where the camera becomes a kind of supercomputer, and of course most photographers don't like AI photos, yet once again they are missing the point and the boat. AI graphics will not be denied and our only choice is to learn to use them well.
Here is another AI graphic I prompted and used as an illustration.
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It's not my impression there are, but we have different interests in the subjects we like to photograph and watch from other members, so I guess we tend to comment and discuss with like-minded members.
but all members and guests and visitors have equivalent photo interests, and very important: different interests, and we all are "like-minded members"?
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NG visitors, members, and supporters come from all walks of life. However, the interest in photography makes most people "like-minded" as there is a foundation common to all.
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NG visitors, members, and supporters come from all walks of life. However, the interest in photography makes most people "like-minded" as there is a foundation common to all.
Of course Birna, I agree. However, how do you see this current softening of interest and why are so many photo sites struggling?
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Much can be said on that subject, Michael, but then we are outside what NG is set up to be.
NG stands out since we are totally ad-free and 100% devoid of any nefarious cookie or advertising tracking.
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Much can be said on that subject, Michael, but then we are outside what NG is set up to be.
NG stands out since we are totally ad-free and 100% devoid of any nefarious cookie or advertising tracking.
Well, it is the "much can be said" I was looking for. I don't like ads, but more important to me than ads is the quality of the interaction in the site. How to improve that to me is most important. I guess that things just change with the seasons of time, and globally we have fallen on harder times for photography.
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but all members and guests and visitors have equivalent photo interests, and very important: different interests, and we all are "like-minded members"?
NG visitors, members, and supporters come from all walks of life. However, the interest in photography makes most people "like-minded" as there is a foundation common to all.
I agree - photography is the "like-minded" and common interest and the reason we visited this site in the first place. My point is that I do not watch or comment on photographic subjects that doesn't have my interest - I ignore it and spend time on what interests me. Fx, I don't intentionally look for motor sport photography or IR photography and I'm sure many members have ignored my many recent photos of trees if they don't find that subject interesting. That means I tend to comment and discuss with the same members that shares my interests.
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Sometimes it does one good to look at new or strange subjects and the way such are portrayed. There are areas of photography which are "traditional" in the sense most examples are bound by invisible frames into a degree of "sameness" or following the accepted manner of the topic. Some niches are by definition not clamped down by expectation of "correct" colours for example, so this is an enjoyable aspect of IR photography. However, to be outstanding, any kind of photography needs to garner and attract visitors by the visions and implied message(s) the images convey. Filters and superficial effects won't help much here.
Even held together by a common interest, our pathways needn't be completely shared. We are individuals.
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I agree - photography is the "like-minded" and common interest and the reason we visited this site in the first place. My point is that I do not watch or comment on photographic subjects that doesn't have my interest - I ignore it and spend time on what interests me. Fx, I don't intentionally look for motor sport photography or IR photography and I'm sure many members have ignored my many recent photos of trees if they don't find that subject interesting. That means I tend to comment and discuss with the same members that shares my interests.
I understand all that and I agree.
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I agree - photography is the "like-minded" and common interest and the reason we visited this site in the first place. My point is that I do not watch or comment on photographic subjects that doesn't have my interest - I ignore it and spend time on what interests me. Fx, I don't intentionally look for motor sport photography or IR photography and I'm sure many members have ignored my many recent photos of trees if they don't find that subject interesting. That means I tend to comment and discuss with the same members that shares my interests.
I understand all that and I agree.
Which makes it all rather shallow, and thats the issue!
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Since Michael's been posting images he didnt use a "traditional" camera for, I'm going to share one that I had trouble believing when i saw it.
I assumed it was taken with a "real camera" but no, a Huawei P40 pro phone
It costs less than the lenses most of us are using :)
I realise this doesn't really have anything to do with getting subscribers on NG.
But another reminder on how much the photographic world has changed
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a "real camera" but no, a Huawei P40 pro
the picture looks a little bit like ai generated, sterile, without emotion and "soul", superreal
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But another reminder on how much the photographic world has changed
I envy the easily-obtained depth of field of the tiny sensors.
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I envy the easily-obtained depth of field of the tiny sensors.
It's the tiny focal length not the sensor size that makes the illusion of immense depth of field ....
However this is a tangential discussion so any follow-up should occur separately in another board.
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I may be the only one interested in this but her eit is anyway :)
Following on the question of how to attract new photographers, I did a small experiment by posting the same material on different sites to assess their audience potential. I posted an intro to my post Migrant, traces ( https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=11136.0) on Instagram, X, Bluesky and LinkedIn.
My followers are vastly different on these platforms
- 3576 on LinkedIn, from my previous work, unrelated to photography
- 802 on X with my former professional persona,
- 79 on X on a recent photooriented account
- 202 on Instagram
- 41 on Bluesky
Results:
Followers Repost Total Followers Accounts Reached Coverage NG views
Linkedin 3576 0 3576 2401 67% 37
Instagram 202 0 202 53 26% 1
X ex-pro 802 1 802 121 15% 1
X photo 79 6 20070 525 3% 19
Bluesky * 41 2 1639 * Bluesky has no analytic tool. 20
In short: LinkedIn and Bluesky have the best impact. X (Twitter), despite reposts by other photographers to almost 21000 followers, had the same impact as Bluesky with 12 less followers. It seems to confirm that X is downrating posts with links. Instagram delivered a better coverage of my followers but generated little interaction.
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I even feel like an outsider because I am American, often.
Then something is wrong, nobody should be an outsider here. It should not give the "old table". We all are equivalent members, and the content of NG is photography, and this photography must be attractive and should develop further, this could be a magnet for new members. There should not be a standstill.
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Here we have a new one day old member
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Here we have a new one day old member
Wow, this is a nice combination of the motif and your photographic style!
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Wow, this is a nice combination of the motif and your photographic style!
Thank you, he(she) is a very sympathic black new member.
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We are still losing supporters. We are currently a 90/150. I really do not like the number
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I see this happening all over. Photography is reaching a kind of plateau , withmore lenses and stuff than I can even keep up with by reading about them. Forget about buy them. If we ae losing folks here, there must be some vitamin or ingredient missing.
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If we ae losing folks here, there must be some vitamin or ingredient missing.
Yes, I agree, we should only show high quality pictures, no mobile phone pictures.
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We do need "good" photos, indeed. I don't think the actual instrument making the photo is of any great importance, though.
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What do you think is important?
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The ideas of the photographer and the manner such are envisioned and manifested.
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And what is important for not losing members/supporters?
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.. deleted
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Lars, if discussing of specific aspects of the perceived image quality is to prevaii, do this in another thread.
NG members do photography in many ways. There is, and should not be, any "standard".
We do love our gear and these days, that includes our phones.
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We do love our gear and these days, that includes our phones.
We should also love new members and non-members and newcomers,
we could adjust and improve our old menu, that could be only one solution, only my opinion.
For pictures with a mobile phone you do not need any manual or consultation, every child can take pictures, that is a sensation, but nobody would need NG for that.
We must find an answer to the question why we are losing supporters.
In my opinion hardware, cameras and lenses and gear have come to a kind of boring standstill, nothing for young generations?
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I am doing a lot of hiking. Yesterday I hiked part of what is called the "Dragon Trail," a difficult trail following the mighty Muskegon River. This trail has a very narrow trail often 100 feet above the river with not a sheer cliff, but a steep bank and one that is very curved, banked, and would be very damaging if you slipped. There is no way I can carry my large cameras, tripod, etc. on that trail. Plus the sheer movement of my body to maintain my balance pushed my body so that it used muscles apparently I don't use hardly ever. It was very painful after I got home.
I have an iphone 16 Pro Max, which is about the best iPhone from Apple that is available. My rules for myself is that I use the bigger Nikons or the Hasselblad when I am not going too far from the car (less than 1/2 a mile or so) and I used the iPhone if I am hiking.
I consider the iPhone I have (45 MP or so) plenty good enough when I cannot carry the larger cameras. I agree with those who say whatever camera we want to use is a camera. It's up to us to be able to use it to advantage. Here is an iPHone image that is not great, but it captures what I could not capture. IMO, trying to limit equipment here on NikonGear is not something that would increase usage of this forum.
If we are dwindling in numbers, it's a reflection on us, of course, but it's happening all over also.
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but it's happening all over also.
That does not make it better, only a change would bring an improvement
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That does not make it better, only a change would bring an improvement
I don't post here much anymore because there is little interest, and since I am using the Hasselblad X2D more and more, there is less and less interest here for that camera. I can't say other forums are any better, but IMO we would have to change up quite a bit to remain current. There is the same crew here than tinkers with lenses and I support that, but other than the "themes" I don't find much happening here that interests me. And I am not 'theme' oriented myself, but it is a way to survive. There is so much new equipment being released that I doubt many of us could cover it all or are even interested in most of it. Looking at other forums, professional photographers are complaining about this or that and having more trouble making a living. I never chose to make money with photography. I am just an amateur in that regard. Frankly, I see no forum that I feel like hanging out at, so this is not a slam on NikonGear, but rather this is just the way it is right now. I post on my own blog site or on local groups of photographers because they are interested in what they post, but there is no technical discussion. I am still here, but am having trouble finding photos or discussion that interest me as they once did.
I am still doing still life such as this, with the Hasselblad X2D, XCD 80mm f/1.9 lens.
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I don't find much happening here that interests me. I am still here, but am having trouble finding photos or discussion that interest me as they once did.
That ist exactly the point, but not only for you, also for newcomers.
But my question is what would be interesting for you?
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I don't post here much anymore because there is little interest, and since I am using the Hasselblad X2D more and more, there is less and less interest here for that camera.
The reason could be the price, and most here have (Nikon) lenses, which do not fit
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Well, Yes! The price,. I had to sell dozens of fine lenses to afford a used Hasselblad X2D and enough lenses to make sense.
What originally interested me about NikonGear was the lens evaluation of B. Rørslet, a careful evaluation of a great many lenses. I still go back to that original site to refresh my understanding of those Nikon lenses. Other than that, there is Thom Hogan, who does a good job on lens evaluation and Lloyd Chambers, who does an excellent job of lens evaluation, but recently has spun off more into politics, which is not my long suit. When I watch YouTube lens evaluation, I just have to laugh. There is little to nothing there that I can learn.
Being an American, I'm by definition not European and can't easily get to your meet-ups. I'm sorry I can't hang out with many of you. I can't help but feel left out. And NikonGear is not so much about photographs as it is about photo gear, and that is fine by me. But there is not so much of even that of late.
The best living phorographer I have ever seen, and of course this is just my opinion, is Ming Thein.
https://blog.mingthein.com/
Thien is not only the best compositional photographer I know of, he went and worked for Hasselblad and is responsible for many designs in the Hasselblad X2D Camera, and for designing the Hasselblad X2D 80mm f/1.9 lens, the fastest Hasselblad lens, and although heavy and clunky to drag around, I drag it around all the time because of the incredible clarity and use it provides for my work.
I am no longer tinkering with the many Nikon 55mm macro lenses, but have moved on to the Nikon Mirrorless cameras and especially the Nikon "S" series lenses of which I have most of them. I find Hasselblad not only expensive, but the X2D offers me the best color I know of, and I have had all kinds of mirrorless cameras and lenses. The XCD lenses are incredibly good, IMO. They have pretty much cured me of focus-stacking, although I still do some.
One shot with the Hasselblad lenses and I have most of what I sought to get with my Nikons. I like to learn through photography.
As to how to attract young or even new members, I don't know of anything new under the sun other than comraderie, hanging out, sharing inspiration and enthusaism for gear and..... PHOTOS.
You tell me what you like about this forum. I don't think there is a better one, but good as we are, it seems we are flagging.
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Lars, if discussing of specific aspects of the perceived image quality is to prevaii, do this in another thread.
NG members do photography in many ways. There is, and should not be, any "standard".
We do love our gear and these days, that includes our phones.
Birna, I was reacting to Karls post and hoped for a simple reply. I'm not starting a discussion, but just wanted to know Karls definition of "high quality pictures" and if/how Karls own images fits that definition. An image example could be fine.
I reacted because I find it very relevant for the discussion in this thread - a site mantra of "only high quality pictures" could definitely put me off as a member. But maybe attract others.
I will remove my previous post - to avoid sparking a discussion :)
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Maybe the NG accounting systems are a little too “genteel” when a members subscription reaches its end date?
A gentle reminder perhaps should be automatically sent out to the individual by the NG systems as a PM on the expiry of their subscription?
I have put a reminder in my electronic diary, but I suspect that not all of us do this.
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Without entering into some of the arguments put forward here, I think we ought to ask ourselves a very basic question. A question as old as photography itself, I surmise.
Will better gear make us a better photographer??
Personally, I'll answer a rresounding 'NO'. Based on my own, life-long experience. Image quality comes from the photographer.
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Will better gear make us a better photographer??
No, but the question here is how can we stop losing supporters and members? And how do we get new members?
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The NG member community, and the no-ad policy, are what make the site unique. Thus all contributions and interactions therein are most welcome.
The reason I asked the question is to pin-point that we should likely concentrate more on the results, not the means to get to that end. It is of course thrilling to get new "toys", but will the toys change the mindset of the photographers?
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We are currently a 90/150.
What does that mean, 90 Supporters? Today 86?
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A lot of subscriptions have elapsed in the last days.
I look up the numbers usually in the morning, and sometimes not every day. The News headline should be up-to-date.
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The NG member community, and the no-ad policy, are what make the site unique. Thus all contributions and interactions therein are most welcome.
It may be that we have fallen into a companionable silence. There is no shortage of good photographs here but discussions have dried up. I will do my bit to think out loud more often.
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And NikonGear is not so much about photographs as it is about photo gear, and that is fine by me. But there is not so much of even that of late.
I disagree. Nikon gear was oriented more toward equipment at the beginning, but that has shifted over the years. The Themes and Daily/Weekly forums seem to be the most active. Should Nikongear compete in the Attention Economy, with click bait controversies and the like? I suspect no one here would be much interested in spending the time required for such an operation.
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A lot of subscriptions have elapsed in the last days.
I look up the numbers usually in the morning, and sometimes not every day. The News headline should be up-to-date.
The yearly reminder in the Google calendar that I set up last spring worked well for me this time around, avoiding the unintended lapse in renewal I had in the past. I highly recommend this simple measure.
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I disagree. Nikon gear was oriented more toward equipment at the beginning, but that has shifted over the years. The Themes and Daily/Weekly forums seem to be the most active. Should Nikongear compete in the Attention Economy, with click bait controversies and the like? I suspect no one here would be much interested in spending the time required for such an operation.
I see, NikonGear is not really for gear discussion anymore. Things have changed. I did not understand that, and will go elsewhere for discussing new lenses, etc.
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I must admit that after I noticed (two months late ..) that my membership had expired I didn’t rush to renew. As much as I love and admire all the images posted, it’s just not enough to make me want to pay for membership.
Something is missing, which as maybe stopping the 1000+, or more, non paying lurkers from not paying.
I love this place, and the inspiration I get here, but sadly I have to question if it is actually worth paying for.
Please don’t flame me. I am just saying it is as I see it.
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I must admit that after I noticed (two months late ..) that my membership had expired I didn’t rush to renew. As much as I love and admire all the images posted, it’s just not enough to make me want to pay for membership.
Something is missing, which as maybe stopping the 1000+, or more, non paying lurkers from not paying.
I love this place, and the inspiration I get here, but sadly I have to question if it is actually worth paying for.
Please don’t flame me. I am just saying it is as I see it.
I agree, I often think so, but what do you miss exactly?
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I see, NikonGear is not really for gear discussion anymore. Things have changed. I did not understand that, and will go elsewhere for discussing new lenses, etc.
In the beginning I also was interested in lenses and cameras, but in the meantime I see lens testing and lens glorification as a mistake and wasted time over years. I am only interested in results, these results are made by the photographer, not by lenses and cameras. Not everybody who has an expensive camera is a good photographer because of that.
I also do not think NG has a duty to make product advices and tests.
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In the beginning I also was interested in lenses and cameras, but in the meantime I see lens testing and lens glorification as a mistake and waisted time over years. I am only interested in results, these results are made by the photographer, not by lenses and cameras. Not everybody who has an expensive camera is a good photographer because of that.
I also do not think NG has a duty to make product advices and tests.
I have been taking meaningful photos since 1956. If this is what NikonGear has become, so be it. I am not interested in what you describe above, a sorry end to a great forum. If this is the general tone of this forum, may it RIP.
Nikon Z7II, Nikon "O" CRT 55mm f/1.5 lens
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i understand that NG is here to discuss photography-related topics. Gear is an important part of the photography simply because you cannot take pictures without the necessary equipment. So, the gear-related discussions, reviews, or technical advises are essential parts of this forum. That's why NG has dedicated sections for the gear.
On the other hand, I believe that all participants here know that the one behind the camera than the camera itself. Recently, I don't participate in the gear talks very much simply because I'm pretty much content with what I have now, and not because the gear talk is unnecessary.
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I have been taking meaningful photos since 1956. If this is what NikonGear has become, so be it. I am not interested in what you describe above, a sorry end to a great forum. If this is the general tone of this forum, may it RIP.
Nikon Z7II, Nikon "O" CRT 55mm f/1.5 lens
We have different opinions, this is ok. Your picture is for me an example of a "very high quality" picture, could be however also made with other lenses and cameras.
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We have different opinions, this is ok. Your picture is for me an example of a "very high quality" picture, could be however also made with other lenses and cameras.
Again, your reasoning leaves me cold. That photo could NOT be made (at least easily) with other lenses, due to the special character of that particular lens. So, please, enjoy your photography. Yet if you imagine you are representing this forum, your logic is not helpful to folks like me. If your approach 'IS' the general consesus, let me hear this from others and I will happily not hang out here. Creativity cannot be confined and also survive.
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It is not about me or my photography, we should think about the future of NG and find solutions.
Different opinions are quite normal.
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If we ae losing folks here, there must be some vitamin or ingredient missing.
In my book, CURIOSITY drives the people into or out of the forum. Second "secret ingedient" is Community. We are together now for 20 years and most of us came as fans of "nærfotograf / Bjørn Rørslett". We traveled together a lot as a community and organized in person meetups.
GEAR is in the name and this might be misleading.
AGE is important, we have nearly no members below 50. I guess we have less members below 40 than member over 80. With age comes bags of gear, so for the residents gear ist not so important anymore. I bought my last new item in November 2023, so one and a half years ago and it was important only insofar as I requested this from Nikon long ago. I asked for a FM-D camera as I called it and I got it with the Nikon Zf and interestingsly enough not with a Nikkor lens but with a Voigtländer Lens named Nokton Z 1.0/50mm. This gear made me take more photos and every person 60+ I met picked up the camera and felt at home "back in the days" ... I love the kit and enjoy it very much, because this is the way I learned to take photos in 1983!
What can get more people regularly involved into our forum?Statistics could help to find more Involvement
Which articles are most popular by number of views?Which artcles are most popular by number of replies?Which articles involve many "non supporters" we want to convert into supporters?What do these articles have in common and can we strengthen that strength?With the "daily blog" now called "weekly blog" I started a regular involvement effort in January 2016, which is now in its 10th year and counting: https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=2411.msg29009#msg29009 (https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=2411.msg29009#msg29009) Maybe we need more of that, like --- do you remember the "Edit Challenge" we used to have? The winner of the last Edis challenge posts a RAW file and everyone is invited
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...your reasoning leaves me cold.
+1
If your approach 'IS' the general consesus, let me hear this from others and I will happily not hang out here.
Michael, I would be very sorry se you leave if that is your intention. I've always enjoyed and valued your brand agnostic contributions, detailed articles and approach to your photography - imo very important contributions for the diversity on NG.
I've been a very, very happy Z7 owner for some years now - partly inspired by your posts. It's definitely the best camera I've had for my kind of photography. No mirror and very effective IBIS/VR - fantastic for handheld photography even in low light: improved gear, more flexibility yields better results and, to me, more joy and inspiration in my photography. Whether I'm a good photographer is of least concern for me here on NG.
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Hello Frank,
your thoughts about statistics and articles are very interesting and constructive.
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The yearly reminder in the Google calendar that I set up last spring worked well for me this time around, avoiding the unintended lapse in renewal I had in the past. I highly recommend this simple measure.
IO have "auto renew" plus I like to add some money manually to the address provided with the subscription
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I have been taking meaningful photos since 1956. If this is what NikonGear has become, so be it. I am not interested in what you describe above, a sorry end to a great forum. If this is the general tone of this forum, may it RIP.
Nikon Z7II, Nikon "O" CRT 55mm f/1.5 lens
Dear Michael!
I do not see the difference between you and Karl, except for the wording.
You got your style of imaging which is a kind of a spiritual journey as you have often described in the past.
I never quite understood your obcession with gear, because as you say, MEANING is what you aim for.
Love
Frank
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Dear Michael!
I do not see the difference between you and Karl, except for the wording.
You got your style of imaging which is a kind of a spiritual journey as you have often described in the past.
I never quite understood your obcession with gear, because as you say, MEANING is what you aim for.
Love
Frank
I don't have an 'obsession with gear', thank you very much. What does interest me is what the kind of gear we have can do as far the resulting photos we produce. I started learning about equipment years ago, of course, but got a huge boost from Birna's early site and learning about what makes lenses useful or not.
Trying to find (for me) the proper use of cameras and lenses has been important, but not at the expense of taking photographs. I have taken over a million images, and got very much into APO (apochromatic) lenses and how they add to the quality of my work. And they add a lot.
Photo by Nikon mirrorless Z7II and the APO El Nikkor 105mm f/5.6 lens on the Cambo Actus Mini.
I also have created about 15,000 AI graphic illustrations and am getting pretty good at it. Here is one I created for an article on mudras I wrote today for my Facebook blog. In this AI system, you can specify camera body by brand, and various lenses, so this is also coming, ready or not.
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I don't have an 'obsession with gear', thank you very much. What does interest me is what the kind of gear we have can do as far the resulting photos we produce. I started learning about equipment years ago, of course, but got a huge boost from Birna's early site and learning about what makes lenses useful or not.
Trying to find (for me) the proper use of cameras and lenses has been important, but not at the expense of taking photographs. I have taken over a million images, and got very much into APO (apochromatic) lenses and how they add to the quality of my work. And they add a lot.
Photo by Nikon mirrorless Z7II and the APO El Nikkor 105mm f/5.6 lens on the Cambo Actus Mini.
I also have created about 15,000 AI graphic illustrations and am getting pretty good at it. Here is one I created for an article on mudras I wrote today for my Facebook blog. In this AI system, you can specify camera body by brand, and various lenses, so this is also coming, ready or not.
Michael, is the second image AI generated?
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Michael, is the second image AI generated?
Of course it is. I pointed out that it is one of about 15,000 AI graphic images I have prompted and shaped. It is not easy to make great AI graphics, either.
It's coming and I like being on top of it rather thanbehind the 8-ball. A really good AI model, similar but better (IMO) to ChatGPT is Grok. Try it out.
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Of course it is. I pointed out that it is one of about 15,000 AI graphic images I have prompted and shaped. It is not easy to make great AI graphics, either.
It's coming and I like being on top of it rather thanbehind the 8-ball. A really good AI model, similar but better (IMO) to ChatGPT is Grok. Try it out.
Impressive, again. That's why I asked even after reading your comment. I'm sure it can not be easy. Most images I see generated with AI are not even close to what you achieve
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Impressive, again. That's why I asked even after reading your comment. I'm sure it can not be easy. Most images I see generated with AI are not even close to what you achieve
Well, I have been on Midjourney AI graphic engine since it first became available a couple years ago. I have done some 15,000 separate images, often taking many attempts to correctly prompt an image I find acceptable. It has save me many dollars from having to licence images online. I blog to around 20,000 folks and I like to illustrate my essays with an appropriate image. Licensing brought sub-standard images, while prompting properly produces good images. These are illustrations and not attempt at fine art, but they help a lot.
I don't make a big deal of my AI graphics. These are just illustrations and I don't worry over them as I do photographs. It is just easier to get reasonably good at prompting useful illusttrations than it is to sort through hundreds of thousands of commerical images, looking for one that will more-or-less go with my blog or essay, and then have to pay for it.
By creating my own images, I get illustrations that are much closer to what I need than any licenseable images. My readers can't even tell that many are not actual photographs although on each AI image that I post I clearly state:
[Midjourney graphic prompted by me.]
In a couple more years, we will not be able to tell the difference between AI illustrations of camera born images. Both are constructs. As they say, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Also, I am kind of keeping up with what's happening in image creating.
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Nikon Z7II, Nikon "O" CRT 55mm f/1.5 lens
Is this a single shot image or a "painting from several shots" as you like to do it in the past?
If it is a single shot I understand your sentiment about the lens because rendering is so beautiful.
If not than I am stunned and confused as always.
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You are on the cutting edge with this picture / illustration.
Question:
Is that Grok or Midjourney?
Did you promt a lens version?
just wow
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this is a photo I have taken today but in 2017. How would you prompt it, Michael?
You can take away the reflection from the window in the eye if you want and yes, the lens is the 1.4/35mm Nikkor Ai-S made in Japan in 2006
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this is a photo I have taken today but in 2017. How would you prompt it, Michael?
You can take away the reflection from the window in the eye if you want and yes, the lens is the 1.4/35mm Nikkor Ai-S made in Japan in 2006
As I find time, I will write an introdution as to how to get into prompting graphic images. It's not trivial, but like anything else requires our attention and there is a learning curve.
Like so many things, the only way to learn, IMO, is to have something you need, in my case an illustration to go along with an essay or blog. That's what drives me. I need illustrations on a daily basis.
Here is a Midjourney graphic I prompted for an article about the return of the sun in spring; it is cold here in northern Michigan.
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I have been taking meaningful photos since 1956. If this is what NikonGear has become, so be it. I am not interested in what you describe above, a sorry end to a great forum. If this is the general tone of this forum, may it RIP.
Nikon Z7II, Nikon "O" CRT 55mm f/1.5 lens
Michael which lens adapter do you use here?
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Michael which lens adapter do you use here?
I don't remember, but it is simply an adapter for, I believe, 39 mm.
Here is another image taken with the same CRT 55mm f/15 Nikkor.
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Discussion of AI Illustrations should have a place of its own. Here is an article about how to get started in AI graphics.
https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=11185.0
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Thank You
As I find time, I will write an introdution as to how to get into prompting graphic images. It's not trivial, but like anything else requires our attention and there is a learning curve.
Like so many things, the only way to learn, IMO, is to have something you need, in my case an illustration to go along with an essay or blog. That's what drives me. I need illustrations on a daily basis.
Here is a Midjourney graphic I prompted for an article about the return of the sun in spring; it is cold here in northern Michigan.
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I look up the numbers usually in the morning, and sometimes not every day. The News headline should be up-to-date.
The number 86 is now constant. Is that enough, respectively how long is it feasible with 86?
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We'll be in dire straits within 1-1.5 years, at latest.
However, I won't be surprised to see the figure dropping far lower than where we stand presently. Subscribers don't seem to be eager to renew their subscriptions and if that trend prevails, we are out of luck.
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because of missing only 1000€?
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I decided not to cover any deficit next time out of my own pocket.
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These are questions for Birna or for anyone in charge who knows the answer.
Is the drop-off in subscriptions something unique to NikonGear or is this something that is universal, happening everywhere to photography forums these days?
If it is unique to us, why is NikonGear not attracting new subscribers? What did we used to offer that we don’t any longer.? What is it that photo enthusiasts most want these days?
Where do we look on the site to see where our own subscription stands? I have trouble finding it.
If ‘Themes” are the only thing holding us together, we are in trouble, IMO. I don’t often do ‘Themes’ because I don’t have time to dig up images that fit the theme, so to me that feature is just stalling the inevitable.
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My comprehension is that NG -- involuntarily -- has become drawn into a general decline of photography forums over the last decade. Why the evolution has taken such direction? my guess is that the reasons are many and some if not all connects to "smartphones" and other aspects of the general dumbing-down trends.
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My comprehension is that NG -- involuntarily -- has become drawn into a general decline of photography forums over the last decade. Why the evolution has taken such direction? my guess is that the reasons are many and some if not all connects to "smartphones" and other aspects of the general dumbing-down trends.
Where do we look on the site to see where our own subscription stands? I have trouble finding it.
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Where do we look on the site to see where our own subscription stands? I have trouble finding it.
Profile info > Modify profile > Actions > Paid subscriptions
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If it is unique to us, why is NikonGear not attracting new subscribers? What did we used to offer that we don’t any longer.? What is it that photo enthusiasts most want these days?
Very good questions!
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Possible reasons for our particular forum:
Too Cliquish. Those who live close or who can gather can’t help but be friendlier with one another.
Lack of systematic dealing with new equipment, probably because of too much new equipment for any one of us to monitor. I can’t anymore keep up.
Too oriented toward one or two camera systems, not enough variety which is recursive, based on little variety of systems.
Every flower has its day. Perhaps we have reached the time when we are just ‘finishing up.” Most of us are older.
Lack of interest.
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For what concerns me I'm not giving up hope on the future of this forum. No other forum than this one I have been longer and that's mainly due to the friendly tone and good moderation here.
Countless things which I have learned over the years come from the many experienced photographers here.
People tend to be older yes but they also reply in a wisely manner rather than typing quicker than the brain can follow.
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The centrale question is: where does the money come from?
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Hopefully, the supporters.
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ah I feel really sorry - I only realized now that my subscription already ended - it's now paid again - mea culpa :)
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ah I feel really sorry - I only realized now that my subscription already ended - it's now paid again - mea culpa
You're not the first Daniel. Same happened to me.
Although its been raised before, i think this is still an area where we lose subscribers inadvertently
A polite note to anyone who's posted in the last 3 months, but has let their subscription lapse would be worth doing.
It need not be a heavy handed note , perhaps something like:
"We noticed that you're still finding Nikongear useful, but your subscription has expired.
Would you consider renewing, using this link?"
No other forum than this one I have been longer and that's mainly due to the friendly tone and good moderation here.
Countless things which I have learned over the years come from the many experienced photographers here.
Agreed Daniel
So whilst we think about ways to get new people to join, lets try to keep people who have been paying up until recently and may have lapsed by mistake
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Most of the other things I have subscribed to send me an email telling me it is time to re-subscribe. Let's do that. It would help me.
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I'm a member of a few other photography blogs, and all of them seem to be fairly inactive too.
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+1
Yes - an annual fee reminder PM capability is most definitely needed.
Most of the other things I have subscribed to send me an email telling me it is time to re-subscribe. Let's do that. It would help me.
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I think--but do not know with certainty--that the users of the "old" style forums, the ones that became well-known and well used 15-20 years ago have aged, and some have moved on to other interests.
Many of the younger people interested in photography use the Instagram-style social media model when they think of internet socializing (and commercial self-promotion) on the subject of photography.
I see quite a bit of 'Photographers of Threads" on the social media site/app Threads, which I mainly read for social/political/current events commentary.
(Threads is Meta's copy of Twitter's micro-blog setup, but so far without the disimprovements made when the the current owner took over Twitter in late 2022) Threads has a fairly active photo crowd which seems to skew younger. Lots of "youngsters" (people in their 20's and 30's) excitedly posting their latest film and digital shots. Some of great interest, some not, many styles are posted. Most viewing of Threads, X (the former Twitter,) Instagram, and the like is done on smartphone screens, but for the photography, is better viewed on larger tablet/laptop/desk monitors.
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Some Nikongear members detained for non-payment of dues.
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I see a lot of young/er phoytographers on social media. Bluesky even has a good number of Photographers Starter Packs, providing lists of accounts, up to 150 par pack, on various topics. The big difference is see, that it is for sharing their work. Discussions, technical questions or gear reviews do not happen there, because of the limitation in size of the messages. When they look for information or answers, they turn to search engines and mostly look for videos or tutorials. Forum is an accidental resource when nothing else pops up in the search. I was very surprised to see this in my own family. For work, they turn tp authoritative sources, always in text form but for hobby, it is mostly video.
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Hopefully, the supporters.
Where are the missing supporters?
1€ for all active members could be a fair payable solution.
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I'm looking into the subscription system and the list of supporters right now. Apparently many of the former supporters are no longer active.
There is an option for sending reminder e-mails for subscribers when their subscription is about to elapse, however it is not activated. I'm investigating how to reactivate the setting.
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I'm looking into the subscription system and the list of supporters right now. Apparently many of the former supporters are no longer active.
There is an option for sending reminder e-mails for subscribers when their subscription is about to elapse, however it is not activated. I'm investigating how to reactivate the setting.
Yes, please activate that. Also, I blog to a fair number of folks, so I will find ways to point my subscribers to NikonGear. That may help. They like my photos and perhaps will like hanging out with photographers. Here is a prompted AI image I just prompted for an article on how hard it is for me to get my body going after a cold Michigan winter.
On another forum, not to be named here, when I posted an article on AI graphics and shared a couple of photos, some folks went nuts, condeming AI, on and on and on.
AI photos further define what is a camera. And if we don't like images like this one, we had best get used to them because this is only the beginning. The curve for AI photos resembling our camera photos is just getting into our territory. It will be an exponential cuve my friends, so we should get used to it. Heaven forbid that some of us learn to take photos with it. LOL.
The Midjourney AI graphic engine that I use can imitate Nikon cameras and lenses. You can specify them specifically, a sign of how invasive this will become.
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Too Cliquish. Those who live close or who can gather can’t help but be friendlier with one another.
What do you mean by that, the "old pub table"?
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What do you mean by that, the "old pub table"?
I mean 'old-timers' failing to welcome new members and help them to become old-timers too.
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Here is a prompted AI image I just prompted for an article on how hard it is for me to get my body going after a cold Michigan winter.
AI could be a theme for NG, but has no direct influence on paying members?
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AI could be a theme for NG, but has no direct influence on paying members?
Of course it has influence, it is another way of thinking about photography and art.
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Of course it has influence, it is another way of thinking about photography and art.
I meant that ai pictures should be discussed on another thread.
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AI is basically a political globalist agenda, digital enslavement about to become the new world order.
The art aspect of this technique is a side-effect or a convenient distraction!
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And why do we not get more supporters with the ai theme?
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AI is basically a political globalist agenda, digital enslavement about to become the new world order.
The art aspect of this technique is a side-effect or a convenient distraction!
People's relationship with photography has changed. Photographers must be prepared if they want to win the race and play their role.
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Photographers must be prepared if they want to win the race
Which race do you mean? Do you see an effect on getting supporters?
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Which race do you mean? Do you see an effect on getting supporters?
I think to get followers you have to be agile, not annoying.
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I think to get followers you have to be agile, not annoying.
The idea that we have to be ‘agile’ I don’t understand, but whatever. What is needed, IMO, is kindness and a sense of welcoming new members to a group of us that have been here for many years. What we need is not only new members, but the experience of sharing what we have, especially if we don’t seem to be learning much new ourselves. Sharing with others is always satisfying and we have a LOT to share, given the right intention on our part. My two cents.
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I'm looking into the subscription system and the list of supporters right now. Apparently many of the former supporters are no longer active.
There is an option for sending reminder e-mails for subscribers when their subscription is about to elapse, however it is not activated. I'm investigating how to reactivate the setting.
Thank you Birna - much appreciated
Small steps, can't do any harm
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What we need is not only new members,
Yes, the theme in this discussion is: where are the additional supporters and how can we convince them to pay 20€
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We have a fair number of quite regular contributors who are not supporters.
I have set a flag to make *new* subscribers be notified when their subscriptions run out. Now, a tedious and manual DB update to the active subscribers is required. I probably will take NG offline later today or tomorrow for this purpose.
According to the hosting company records, NG hosting plans need to be repaid in 550 days. I have to double check this, though. In the mean time there are running costs to cover domain registrations, security certificates, and so on.
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If my tinkering with the innards of the NG database was successful, existing supporters should get a notification some days before the end of the subscription period. Or at least, that was my aim when rummaging and updating the MySQL tables! -time will show if this works.
If a supporter gets notification to renew, please report it here or send me a PM. I had to reset all potential notifications whether they related to inactive or active members first, before I could change the subscription parameters themselves. The DB scheme for subcriptions now should trigger a notification e-mail when 7 days remain of the paid period. However that procedure obviously will fail if you have a new e-mail address and forgot to update your profile, or your mailserver host blocks e-mails from NG. The latter has happened more than once, unfortunately. The former can happen to any human :)
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… What we need is not only new members, but the experience of sharing what we have, especially if we don’t seem to be learning much new ourselves.
Exactly that.
I had several issues that I couldn't solve and that were solved by the people here. I also often see photos here, I don't understand how they were made, a treat for me.
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+1
Thank you Birna - much appreciated
Small steps, can't do any harm
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I mean 'old-timers' failing to welcome new members and help them to become old-timers too.
I suggested a "welcome thread" which was established and which is still used by new folks
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AI is basically a political globalist agenda, digital enslavement about to become the new world order.
The art aspect of this technique is a side-effect or a convenient distraction!
I do not think the aliens will take over. more probable people choose comfort instead of freedom.
A real photos with D500 & 300PF plus Pixel 9 Pro taken today on a all rain walk
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I suggested a "welcome thread" which was established and which is still used by new folks
That is helpful. However, IMO, there is no substitute for actually working with the newbees and let them share with those of us who have been here for years.
I have run forums for Compuserve (music and film) and over 110 separate forums for Microsoft, so I do have experience in this. Yes, welcome them, yet beyond that it "..takes a villiage" as they say. We all talk with one another and have. Me not so much. Just fold in the new folks to our groups. I get asked about focus-stacking and some other things; I always respond. That kind of thing.
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I suggested a "welcome thread" which was established and which is still used by new folks
The"introduce" thread?
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Good news, there are eighty-eight supporters now, so two more supporters than a few days ago :-)
BTW I am a supporter and I have my Paypal do it automatized, lost the overview but after looking up it will renew on the 28th of April and will hopefully work as it has done the last years.
Should it be required I would also pay an increased contribution, and remaining deltas should not be Paid by Birna alone.
Furthermore I'd like to address that the existence of Nikongear is somewhat important tom me no matter whether I find time to be active or am struggling with my other obligations in a way that keeps me off for a longer period of time. And I dont feel any force to this in an economical cost/benefit view, in the way of do I get enough for the money
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Do report if you get a notification before your current subscription ends, please. (I sincerely hope my meddling with the DB settings activated the correct trigger :)
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The"introduce" thread?
https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?board=13.0 (https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?board=13.0)
look how old it is. The 13th board of all. 11th June 2015, shortly after the big move from South Africa
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2 in 2025 and 10 2024
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Do report if you get a notification before your current subscription ends, please. (I sincerely hope my meddling with the DB settings activated the correct trigger :)
I will, and I hope so too :-)
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Do report if you get a notification before your current subscription ends, please. (I sincerely hope my meddling with the DB settings activated the correct trigger :)
I renewed my subscription, just now. My subscription ended April 10. I did not get any email, but checked within my profile. Maybe the reminder email is just triggered for future subscriptions ending?
"Make this a recurring payment" was default checked, next year this should be effective.
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2 in 2025 and 10 2024
what?
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I renewed my subscription, just now. My subscription ended April 10. I did not get any email, but checked within my profile. Maybe the reminder email is just triggered for future subscriptions ending?
"Make this a recurring payment" was default checked, next year this should be effective.
The reminder e-mail option wasn't activate until a few days ago. The option is set by default now, but it remains to be seen whether elapsing existing subscriptions will trigger this behaviour.
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My subscription is ending on April 24, in a few days, I will let you now if I receive any notice
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You can just make sure of the color of your name appearing on the upper left corner of each of your own posts.
If you are a subscriber, your name will turn from orange to brown when your subscription expires.
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Do report if you get a notification before your current subscription ends, please. (I sincerely hope my meddling with the DB settings activated the correct trigger :)
Today I received the notification about the soon expiring subscription. So actually your meddling was not futile but successful :-)
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Today I received the notification about the soon expiring subscription. So actually your meddling was not futile but successful :-)
Hooray!
Nice work Birna.
it remains to be seen whether elapsing existing subscriptions will trigger this behaviour.
Its possible a one-off run of the routine against the database might be needed for that.
Even if only to produce a "report" of people still posting, whose subs have expired
But that's maybe getting even further into complex territory
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I already got the notification, I received as a spam ;D
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89 to 87? It has again become less
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89 to 87? It has again become less
That is due to subscriptions just elapsed and not being renewed :( I do check every day, to keep our status as up to date as possible.
NG supporters have joined at various times throughout the year. Thus the fluctuation in actual paying supporters is to be expected. What is worrisome is the longer-term trend, which signals fewer subscribers as time goes.
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Shrunk again to 87?
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Yes. Ups and downs.