Nikon D5 - first impressions

[Frank Fremerey]

EDIT: many people cannot see this link, so I posted the content I referred to into the thread further down.

Here we go: http://www.fotozones.com/live/index.php/topic/45866-old-d3x-or-new-d600/page-1

[Bjørn Rørslett]

Sorry Frank - this link leads to nowhere unless you are a subscriber to Fotozones and logged in concomitantly.

Don't post this kind of links as they are of little use to most people.

[Andy]

Thank you Andy. In your #118 example the comparison between D200 and D600 extends only to sensor data.
My question was aiming more at the visual comparsion. So.

Frank,
we are deviating a bit away from the D5 with this discussion. Post #118 wasn't a formal visual "comparison" between D600 and D200.
I used the D600 example as an "unilateral" example to show what is possible with D600 data, vs. what would have been a much larger "issue" if this very same picture would have been taken with the D200. Like many others, I've used the D200 extensively in the past and these kinds of of conditions where close to impossible to recover with a D200. So I thought the single D600 example was sufficient to show the progress we now enjoy so regularily with modern sensors. Sorry for this oversimplified approach to support my point.

If interested, we can start a separate thread on this topic, but I'd appreciate, if we rather stay on D5 themes in this thread.

wrt to D5:
When I picked up the D5 last Friday, I got a copy of the German edition of the new printed brochure which covers the D5, D500 and the new flash.
1) there was a reference to low light capabilities of the D5 stating, that it is able to represent colorful images at "astronomical twilight" conditions. I've never seen a camera manufacturer making such a statement (and it is not in the english PDF version of the D5 brochure)
2) While reading the brochure yesterday evening, I found 2 potential errors in it:
2a) There is a statement that with a fast USB3 reader the XQD cards can transfer 1000 NEFs in 35 sec to your computer. Given the average size of 25 MB/NEF I saw with my sample D5, this would translate to 710 MB/s - this is beyond the specification of currently available XQD cards and the specification of the USB3 interface (approx 500 MB/s). The max specified data rate for the Lexar 2933x card is 440 MB/s. This would amount to 15 MB/NEF, which I haven't seen yet. May be the reduced NEFs would be in this range, don't know. My guess is that they meant JPEGs, because this would be in the range of possible transfer rates. (JPEG's are between 10 and 12 MB per large/fine JPEG)
2b) The capture line of the image with the bear says "ISO 65535". Seemingly, the editors preparing this brochure used a computer which hadn't had the new NEF codec installed to be able to report the likely "correct" ISO of 102400, as I have never seen any D5 image with such a real ISO value. (For the non-computer geeks: 65535 is the largest value a 16-bit unsigned integer can represent and this number often indicates a potential error or unexpected condition in a software. With the new NEF codec the respective driver in the operating system was updated and corrected this initial issue)
3) wrt to the utility of the Hi3 and Hi5 settings which seemingly aren't usable for photography. Just an idea: They might be of "better value" when recording video in High Definition (1920x1080). The brochure showed which part of the sensor is used by which video mode, and while the 4k mode has a 1:1 pixel equivalency with the pixel on the sensor, the 1920x1080 HD mode covers almost all of the sensor surface (bar the top/bottom area to accomodate the 16:9 video aspect ratio on a 3:2 sensor). This allows a significant downsampling from the 5568x3132 recording pixels to the 1920x1080 output pixel (ratio = 8.4 : 1). Together with the usual blur of motion capture, the upper ISO limit of this video mode might be higher than for photography. As said, just a guess the reading of the brochure triggered. To be checked, when a camera is available again. (I am currently "D5-less" )
4) The brochure is the first brochure Nikon released for a single digit model in our language, which does not contain a section with technical data. Interesting (for a 28-page brochure).

rgds, Andy

[Erik Lund]

,,,,
Talking about Nikon links.
In the past and starting with the D3X, the NPS team has produced technical guides of selected cameras, like the D3s, D3X, D4, D4s, D800/E and D810.
It will probably take time for the appropriate D5 information, but my guess is that when it will show up, it will show up in this place.
http://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_solutions/
,,,,,,
rgds, Andy

Yes very nice tutorials as usual! Highly recommended

[simsurace]

When can one actually "see" the difference in photon budget?

Scenes with a high dynamic range and scenes with very low light. We keep pushing to domains that were previously inaccessible. But I still think: a shot with crappy lighting will always be a shot with crappy lighting, no matter how good your high ISO performance is.

[Bjørn Rørslett]

... a shot with crappy lighting will always be a shot with crappy lighting, no matter how good your high ISO performance is.

ain't that the Universal Truth ...

[Andy]

On page 99 and 100 of the english version of the user manual, Nikon lists some graphs and data on the interaction of lens types, TC combinations with lenses and their respective implications on the number of available AF cross sensors.
In a nutshell, the 500mm/f4 and 200-400mm/4 lenses can only use the center field AF cross sensors(with the exception of the 500mm FL version), the 600mm/f4 in addition one row of outer AF cross sensors on each side (no exception for the 600mm FL). Most other lenses below f4 have the full coverage of AF cross sensors.

please refer to the D5 manual for more detail (don't want to copy the 2 pages into the thread)

rgds, Andy

[Frank Fremerey]

Sorry Frank - this link leads to nowhere unless you are a subscriber to Fotozones and logged in concomitantly.
Don't post this kind of links as they are of little use to most people.

Sorry, did not know this. Andy, Erik & You were in this thread at the time. Ich will share the links to the footage in a second. The NEF are still on my own server to download...

[Bjørn Rørslett]

We have no influence on what material is accessible to visitors on Fotozones. Their access policy changes over time as well.

Only material available to the general public should as a rule be linked to and this applies to any web site.

[Frank Fremerey]

Here are the links to my site:

http://fotokontext.de/neutral_ooc.jpg (left D600 ooc JPEG, right D3 ooc JPEG ... idea: show the generatation gap in every respect also in low light) original caption: D600 vs. D3 all settings neutral, ISO4000, WB=Auto, JPEG out of cam 100% view in photoshop, both handheld with AFS2.8/60G

My wish concerning this post: Please someone compare D3, D4, D5 output side by side visually

The pictures:

-- same light
-- same portrait situation
-- Sinar P2 with Schneider APO Digitar 5.6/120mm (new version introduced at Photokina 2012) fully open
-- just together Nikon-Sinar-adapter
-- D3, D600 (RAW+JPEG L fine, WB=Auto, A1 for D600, base ISO, Neutral-Setting)
-- I did also shoot the D7000 but left the setting on RAW+JPEG M fine accidentially, so no fair chance for her
-- All MUP and cable release (D600 and D7000 IR)

I give you the JPEGs and the RAWs out of cam for examination plus a RFC.

Cheers

Frank

(D7k) http://fotokontext.de/HSC_1848.JPG
(D7k) http://fotokontext.de/HSC_1848.NEF

(D3) http://fotokontext.de/CEP_6181.JPG
(D3) http://fotokontext.de/CEP_6181.NEF

(D600) http://fotokontext.de/DSC_7706.JPG
(D600) http://fotokontext.de/DSC_7706.NEF



PS: Now I have to dig for the D800E footage too

PPS: Normal edited D3-shot (the rest is ooc): http://fotokontext.de/auswahl_CEP_1802_EDT.JPG

[Herbie49]

The D5 in action up in the Swiss mountains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLqe6ITFhpw&feature=youtu.be
Sorry, language spoken is Swiss German.

[Andy]

The "D5-less" period ended earlier today, picked up my copy (XQD version)

The SB-5000 did also arrive:
The flash unit is smaller than the SB-910, rather the size of the previous SB-800. While the size difference is more or less irrelevant when mounted on the bulky D5, it might be welcomed for those uses with smaller cameras like the Df and D750. Here are the 3 models with zoom ranges and GN number.
SB910: 17-200mm, GN(ISO100, 35mm): 34
SB800: 24-105mm, GN(ISO100, 35mm): 38
SB-5000: 24-200mm, GN (ISO100, 35mm): 34.5

Setting the zoom position to 200mm, the SB-910 has a GN of 53, while the SB-5000 has 55. The larger head of the SB-910 comes moste likely from the lower value at the wide end (17mm), vs. 24mm for the SB-5000. All 3 flashes can be set with additional means up to 14mm.

I don't have multiple SB-5000 flashes yet, so I can't check the new wireless system of this flash generation.
Anyway, the Gary Fong diffuser are easier to attach on the SB-5000 than on the SB-910, due to the smaller head size. This is positive for me, as I use the diffuser quite frequently when using flash.

On D5 serial numbers:
The earlier D5 from last weekend was one equipped with dual CF card slots. The serial number began with 65xxxxx. The D5 with XQD slots has a serial number starting with 60xxxxx. "6" is usually the number for European cameras, "2" for US, etc ... Don't know if the D5 will have multiple number"zones" (According to Roland's list, the single digit bodies normally don't - the D4 being the exception)


rgds & happy easter (*),
Andy

(*)  for the geos, where easter "apply"

[Andy]

Earlier today, my family visited a mountain farmer we knew since ages. When my kids where small and barely able to walk, we often visited her. Over the years we lost contact but decided to visit her today. She is approaching the age of 100 and still doing the farmwork by herself after her husband died decades ago. Due to the small window and the low-power bulb in one corner, the room was quite dim. While we spend the most time chatting, I also did some pictures without any particular attention to the photography part of the experience we encountered. As discussed before, the D5 extends the "no-brainer" range to ISO 6400-12800. It is such a good feeling to see how well the D5 handles the WB and exposure parts (and keep the ISO setting on auto with a max at either 6400 or 12800). It doesn't always need to be record breaking ISO capabilities, the sweet spot is much lower, imho.
Well, those images could have been done with other cameras, I am sure. And they might be of little value for others. But what was intriguing for me was the "ease" during taking and the no-need-to-postprocess which made this capturing of personal moments so enjoyable.

rgds, Andy

Here are a few examples (all images taken with the D5, AFS 24-70mm/2.8 VR, just resized, no postprocessing):
1) the farmer, still doing most of the work with her hands (ISO 6400, heavy mixed light conditions))
2) She still does the wood (ISO 5000)
3) The corner of the stable with 2 cows and 1 sheep. Very dark, the unaided human eye wouldn't see these colors in the corner.
4) every day's work (ISO 2800)

[Andy]

In case you are asking yourself, why some people need fast frame rates and a swift AF system.

This D5 captured a Formular 1 car crash a few days ago:
http://blog.iamnikon.com/en_GB/f1/crash-alonso-f1-australia-grand-prix/
Good, that the driver  - Alonso - escaped uninjured, despite some serious desintegration of his car he was sitting in.
The D5 AF seems to work well though ...


Marianne Oelund picked up a D5 as well (One of her D4 was at 900.000 frames).

Some AF experiences shooting Beach Volleyball.


rgds, Andy

[Jakov Minić]

Thank you Andy for all the D5 reviews. I am thoroughly enjoying reading them.
Having used the D4 and Df simultaneously I can vouch that there is a huge difference in handling and I know exactly what you mean when you say that you can simply rely on the camera to make the image you envisaged or not. Speed can be crucial sometimes and that's where the big D's reign supreme
(I wish I had one regardless of its size and weight)