Author Topic: Nikon D5 - first impressions  (Read 146410 times)

Roland Vink

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #105 on: March 22, 2016, 20:41:30 »
Quote
1) The AFS 24-70mm/2.8G VR seems to be the early bird in this generational change. Electronic aperture control, VR, etc. But the 82mm filter size seemed odd to me at the beginning. As it is a very unusual filter size.
Nikon have made lenses with 82mm filter size previously, although it is uncommon:
- AF 300/4 (also accepts 39mm rear filters)
- Reflex 500/8 (new) (also accepts 39mm rear filters)
- Old 85-250 and 200-600 zooms

During the manual focus era, the standard size filter was 52mm for small lenses, and 72mm for larger. With the AIS range 62mm was added as an intermediate size. Since the AF era, the "large standard" increased to 77mm, starting with the AF 80-200 in 1987. Since then virtually every high-spec lens has used this filter size, including many recent releases such as the AFS 300/4 PF and AFS 20/1.8. It would be hard to persuade photographers to now buy another set of even larger, more expensive filters. I'm hoping the 24-70 VR is a one-off.

Andy

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #106 on: March 23, 2016, 00:11:14 »
Over at Nikonrumors, Bill Claff's data points for the D5 vs. D4 are discussed.

As expected there is significant discussion about the lower dynamic range at low ISO settings. Like with most cameras and lenses, there seems to be a need to find an easy to communicate "weakness/defect/issue" per model, that warrants lots of debate in the months to come. The AF issue early D800's had, the spots on some D600s, the VR issue of the 300mm PF lens, to name a few. Ok, seems to be necessary these days. :)
http://nikonrumors.com/2016/03/21/nikon-d5-now-shipping-additional-coverage-hint-there-is-a-new-lord-of-darkness.aspx/#more-103127

But my favorite quote of the day comes from commenter NWCS:

Someone needs to start a therapy group for photographers: Coping With Specification Disappointment.
And then a recovery group: In Pursuit of Pictures Not Measurements.


:D
Andy

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #107 on: March 23, 2016, 00:27:30 »
Most of these gearheads over at Dpreview and suchlike arenas will never use a D5 nor buy one. Their contribution is in generating internet noise in order to feel all-important.

We saw this in the debacle around the Df and all its alleged short-comings. Responses go on auto-repeat regarding the D5.

Andy, do enjoy your D5 when it arrives in the near future. I'm sure you will make great stuff out of it.

I signed up for a review camera, but to be honest I'm more anxious to get my hands on the D500. Nothing wrong with the D5, but it is the D500 I already have on order.

Andy

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #108 on: March 23, 2016, 01:39:13 »
Thanks Bjorn,
I already enjoyed the weekend with the D5, even if it this sample was not mine.
The familiarity with the existing Nikon bodies facilitated much to get immediately decent results. The learning curve is pretty fast because it is so low.

I do think (no evidence, just thinking) that the D500 will have a few things of benefits in common with the D5. I could imagine that the exposure meter might be as stable as with the D5. The balanced WB measurement could be similar. The measurment might be the same, but I don't know if the D500 sensor has an identical color reproduction curve like the D5. If they are based on the same sensor architecture, then this would be simpler to achiieve. If the sensors are of fundamentally different architecture, this could lead to a different color reproduction vs. the D5 (not saying that either is better. Just different).

With more D5's now coming to users, I'd love to see then the broader perspective of use cases outside my type of photography this camera is capable of.predecessor
While the innovation period for the D5 was approx 2 years (since the D4s was launched), the D500 has the potential to demonstrate much more improvement as a package. The D300s would probably be the closest predecessor from a DX "package" perspective, with the D7200 being a valuable benchmark for sensor performance.

Only a month to go (hopefully) and we will know more about the D500.

rgds, Andy

PS:
I am sorry for not spending all the time with test charts etc.
While on tour with the D5, I was sometimes distracted - or shall I say "intrigued" - by the smell of delicious cheese. Like here. Please see what a D5 cheese snapshot looks like ;)
(Taken from NEF with NX-D, lifted shadows slightly by +10, no further pp, resized to 1920x1280)

chris dees

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #109 on: March 23, 2016, 07:54:03 »
.......

I signed up for a review camera, but to be honest I'm more anxious to get my hands on the D500. Nothing wrong with the D5, but it is the D500 I already have on order.

It would be nice if you have your copy of the D500 before Scotland. :)
Chris Dees

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #110 on: March 23, 2016, 09:40:16 »
Andy one: The Cheese would have been nicer with the 45PC. Focus on the well lit cheese the somewhat chaotic dark structure as a blurry BG.

Andy two: Did you test some slow AF primes like the 85s and the 50s? How does the AF on the D5 differ compared to earlier AF system incarnations?

Andy three: I was tinking a lot about your concept of the "photon budget". Yes, the D600 has 3x photon budget compared to the D3 ... BUT ...  We compare apples & oranges here as one is measured at "base ISO" 200 the other at 100. Should we not look at the photon budget depending on our intended light levels?

http://sensorgen.info/NikonD600.html
http://sensorgen.info/NikonD700.html
http://sensorgen.info/NikonDf.html

That said it seems like a great idea for Nikon to shell out another D5, name suggestion D5L (for "Low" ISO) featuring the buffer, the fresh Exspeed, the AF, the ruggetized body, all I want and need as a cradle for the 24MP genius.

The combination of the D5 and the D5L as a two body set will give the best of both worlds to any PJ or agency worker.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #111 on: March 23, 2016, 09:53:02 »
It would be nice if you have your copy of the D500 before Scotland. :)

Pushing for it and crossing fingers it'll be there. I'm on the first batch of allotments for NPS members. Nikon Nordic says "April arrival" but so far no clue as to when in that month.

However, the world doesn't end if I have to wait for my camera. There are plenty of alternatives floating around in the lens house...

Andy

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #112 on: March 23, 2016, 10:07:04 »
On the german Nikon website, a link to the D5 User manual is available since today:
http://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/de/products/320/D5.html

Here is the Nikon/UK link for the english version:
http://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/320/D5.html

rgds, Andy

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #113 on: March 23, 2016, 10:16:56 »
Page 54
Silent Mode
!!!GREAT NEWS!!!!
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Erik Lund

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #114 on: March 23, 2016, 10:53:22 »
Frank, I'm afraid you're comparing the apple to the orange here, not Andy,,,

Not trying to answer for Andy, but it is just collected data, just comparing cameras, remember different tools for different jobs.

Great work Andy Et Al.
Erik Lund

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #115 on: March 23, 2016, 11:40:20 »
Erik:

at ISO 200 the

D600 has a photon budget of 4028 x 6080 x 38610 per frame = 945.568.166.400 photons counted per frame
D700 has a photon budget of 2844 x 4288 x 47215 per frame = 575.790.324.480 photons counted per frame
Df  has a photon budget of 3292 x 4992 x 66217 per frame = 1.088.187.929.088 photons counted per frame

That is comparable data. No apples and oranges.

The way I understand it this means that the Df should deliver about the same quality output @ISO200 as the D600 (trading in tonality for spatial resolution)


PS: The D810 has at ISO 200 a photon budget of 4928 x 7380 x 24822 =  902.742.382.080 photons counted per frame  (trading in more tonality for more spatial resulution)

PPS: I expect the D850 carrying the Alpha7R2-Chip, loosing less photons to constructional issues, combining super tonality with extraordinary spatial resolution

PPPS: For me the question remains: Where is the threshold for perception? When can one actually "see" the difference in photon budget?
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Hermann

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #116 on: March 23, 2016, 19:15:29 »
I am sorry for not spending all the time with test charts etc.
While on tour with the D5, I was sometimes distracted - or shall I say "intrigued" - by the smell of delicious cheese. Like here. Please see what a D5 cheese snapshot looks like ;)
(Taken from NEF with NX-D, lifted shadows slightly by +10, no further pp, resized to 1920x1280)

Nice. I really, really like cheese ...  ::)

BTW, how do you find NX-D works with the NEF files from the D5? On the whole I think NX-D is slowly getting there, seems much more stable and somewhat faster now than the ealier versions were, even on a slow system with only 4GB RAM.

Hermann

Andy

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #117 on: March 24, 2016, 00:34:10 »
The NEF Codec update with D5 support for Win/Mac is available since today:
http://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/170/NEF_Codec.html

Talking about Nikon links.
In the past and starting with the D3X, the NPS team has produced technical guides of selected cameras, like the D3s, D3X, D4, D4s, D800/E and D810.
It will probably take time for the appropriate D5 information, but my guess is that when it will show up, it will show up in this place.
http://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_solutions/

Hermann:
I am a long time Capture NX user, "forced" by recent camera acquisitions to use NX-D (D750, D7200 and now D5) as CaptureNX doesn't support them anymore. Haven't used NX-D too much yet, but initial usage and experience is not bad. Good to see that CPUs with 4 cores seem to be using all of them for selected operations. For speed critical activities like image selection and finding old files, I continue to use other - much faster - tools.

rgds, Andy

Andy

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #118 on: March 24, 2016, 01:31:43 »
For me the question remains: Where is the threshold for perception? When can one actually "see" the difference in photon budget?

Frank, one quick example.
For instance, comparing a D600 and a D200. You want to capture the same scenery and the final output size should be the same.
The D600 can capture about 10x more registered photons than the venerable D200. A D600 image, underexposed by 3 EV has still more "photons" available than the properly exposed D200 photo, for rendering the image at a certain quality level.

It will be interesting to see, what the "budget" for the D5 will be.

rgds,
Andy

Pics:
1) Comparing  D600 and D200
2) A D600 image, intentionally underexposed to minimize the highlights of the small street lights and lights from the snow cannons (D600, AFS 16-35mm/4, f8, 30s)
3) same image, just applied 2 seconds of post processing efforts in CNX (I think it was: Set ADL to HQ )
4) Larger version of (3), 1920x1280
5) 100% crop of the processed 24MP image. On one of the recovered very dark areas on the mountain side. Still decent texture

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Nikon D5 - first impressions
« Reply #119 on: March 24, 2016, 08:30:48 »
Thank you Andy. In your #118 example the comparison between D200 and D600 extends only to sensor data.

My question was aiming more at the visual comparsion. So.

Can I see the difference in photon budget between 2 Billion and 3 Billion photons per frame?

Can we produce proof as in footage?

In the studio I did a proper test with a Schneider APO Digitar a while ago.

Candidates were the D800E and the D600. Result: Although the Pixel budget was not much different
skin tones on the D800E looked "flatter, less fleshy, less lively" while on the D600 skintones looked natural
very soft gradients very nice. The D600 had visually less spatial resolution visible in fine hair and pores
The lens outperforms both sensors. The footage can be found on the old site iirc

used D3X or new D600? """" was the topic title.

You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/