Author Topic: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850  (Read 925 times)

Dogman

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2021, 18:27:21 »
Let me just throw this out for consideration.  It may be completely meaningless to most folks here but.... 

I'm unable to use EVF mirrorless cameras in bright light.  My eyes are extremely sensitive to light.  After being outside on a bright sunny day and then coming inside to a normally lighted room, I'm partially blind for a few minutes.  When I try to use a camera with an EVF outside, the irises in my eyes have closed down so much the image in the viewfinder is too dim to see fine detail.  Inside, it's okay but outside the cameras become useless to me.

I've tried using Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic cameras with EVFs and I get the same effect.  When a neighbor bought a new Z7 he brought it by to show me and the image was too dim outside for me to see when I tried it outside.

One more thing.  Gotta be careful with sunglasses.  Polarized lenses on sunglasses do strange things to the EVF image.  It's not there anymore.  Along with Nikons I also use Fuji X-Pro cameras--in OVF mode, not EVF mode.  Tried using an XP2 one day with my over-the-eyeglasses sunglasses in place and thought the camera had died (the displays in the OVF are all electronic).  Blank viewfinder, blank rear screen.  But of course it was the polarized sunglasses.  I felt like an idiot.  Bottom line for me is EVFs are not acceptable.

"If it's more than a hundred feet from the car, it's not photogenic."--Edward Weston

David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2021, 21:06:08 »
However, it does provide manual focus tools (peaking, which I find incredibly distracting by the way, and zoomed viewing, which is very unstable when hand-holding IMO) in the viewfinder which the D850 does not (I mostly use manual focus when working on a tripod, so for me this is not a major issue).

I've tried focus peaking with the D850 in live view and I also find it very distracting. Also I didn't find it useful for nailing the focus with shallow DoF. I haven't found focus peaking useful at all.

I've used 100% pixels in live view to focus a 20/2.8 AIS on my D800 then shifted back to the viewfinder to take a static photo of an atrium in a rehabilitation hospital. A tripod was not allowed. This worked but was clumsy and difficult.

I don't think it makes much sense to get a Z body unless you also intend to get Z lenses at least over a period of time if not immediately. In my opinion, the major advantages are in video and availability of lenses designed for a short flange back distance. There is also improved AF accuracy in some situations especially reported for longer distances (which is where DSLR AF tends to be more variable in result).

I would be limited to just a 24-70/4.0 lens for sometime so I'm afraid a mirrorless camera doesn't make sense for me so your point is well taken.

Since I don't have a business anymore and haven't for a number of years I don't need a 1:1 backup. I need an alternate to my D850 something to augment it. I'm wishing for a way to make more use of my legacy manual focus Nikkor lenses. I'm finding even the 0.75x viewfinder of the D850 isn't enough for aging my eyes.

What if you drop that Z6 II in the pond and by that time relied on its features as essential part of your kit?

That would be very difficult for me. At least I'd still have the D850. I came close this time but no harm, no foul. I haven't dumped a tripod since I kicked over my tripod in 1970 with a Nikon F and 55/3.5 Nikkor P. In that incident the standard prism on the F was damaged but still functional. The older one gets the more clumsy one gets. My mother used to say, "Your father is a bull in a china closet, but you're not that way." Well I'm getting clumsy like my father was at this age.

I'm toying with a number of options. A Z body probably doesn’t make sense for me. Maybe I need to consider F mount AF lenses for the D850. At least I could fall back on the D800. I came close to needing to replace my D850.

I’m an OK photographer, nothing great but photography is my passion. I’ve been hoping to make more use of my legacy Nikkors, AI and AIS. 

Thank you for your reply.

Dave
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Hugh_3170

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2021, 03:51:33 »
David, if the Z series is not for you, have you considered the 24MPx D750 and D780 as your backup machine? 

I have not used either, but they look like dammed good DSLRs to me and the D750 is pretty good value for money just now.
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Wally

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2021, 07:14:09 »
I would be limited to just a 24-70/4.0 lens for sometime so I'm afraid a mirrorless camera doesn't make sense for me so your point is well taken.

I am surprised nobody considers a (refurbished) Z7. What are your objections?
In late 2018 I replaced my Df with a Z6 for a) getting better/easier/reliable focus due to ageing eyesight and b) give new life to all these beautiful Ai and AiS lenses. I didn't look back and features like focus peaking work like a breeze. My D800 started to collect dust and is now relegated to slide copying. With all the amazing things surrounding the D850 I continued to lust for more megapixels. Nikon US had a recent promotion on Z bodies and I finally got a Z7 with that same great sensor. Brand new w full warranty for $2150 all inclusive. That's $350 + tax cheaper than the now discounted D850 and provides all mirrorless advantages. For me the DSLR era is closed. If you prefer a slower transition you could get a D780 now discounted at $1997 + tax. Not really cheaper than what I paid for the new Z7. Food for thought?
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Erik Lund

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2021, 11:03:41 »
Second hand Nikon Z7 are very affordable here on the used marked, actually super cheap compared to a new Z7 II
Same goes for used D850!
However Z7 is not a 'true back up' for all the things a DSLR like D850 is capable of,,,
Z7 is wonderful with the native lenses and acceptable with CPU modified Nikon Ai Ais etc.
The electronic viewfinder is acceptable bright and clear and it's lots of fun to use except for the slight lag when panning or shooting action - IMHO
Erik Lund

Jack Dahlgren

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2021, 02:33:42 »
The range of opinions around the Z cameras is quite wide it seems. A refurbished Z6 or Z7 would seen to be a good option. If you are mostly using manual focus AI/AIS lenses, then no need for the FTZ, you can use a dumb adapter.
I find that with viewfinder magnification my Z6 makes use of old lenses easier than anything else. I prefer it over the DF (though the DF handles exif information better).
The first month I had it, I thought I had made a big mistake. But then I figured out how best to set viewfinder, controls etc. and now I'd not go back.


David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2021, 04:35:48 »
David, if the Z series is not for you, have you considered the 24MPx D750 and D780 as your backup machine? 

Probably not: the viewfinder magnification isn't high enough and the control arrangement is quite different from the D850. The D500 viewfinder is a 1.0x finder and the control arrangement is pretty close to identical to the D850.

Dave
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David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2021, 04:50:00 »
None of my AI and AIS Nikkors are chipped so if I understand correctly the metering option with Nikon Z cameras and FTZ adapter are very limited.

Only three of my lenses are AF-S, G type. Four are AF-D type and two are AF (non-D). A mirrorless Nikon camera doesn't look like a good option for me since I can't afford a set of Z type Nikkors.

I recently sold a truck but the small amount I sold it for looks like it will go to legal fees as I have an illegal lodger living in my house.

Dave
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Jack Dahlgren

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2021, 18:16:03 »
None of my AI and AIS Nikkors are chipped so if I understand correctly the metering option with Nikon Z cameras and FTZ adapter are very limited.

Only three of my lenses are AF-S, G type. Four are AF-D type and two are AF (non-D). A mirrorless Nikon camera doesn't look like a good option for me since I can't afford a set of Z type Nikkors.

I recently sold a truck but the small amount I sold it for looks like it will go to legal fees as I have an illegal lodger living in my house.

Dave

Not sure what you mean by metering options being limited. I have no chipped AI/AIS lenses and metering works just fine. The thing it doesn't do is screw-drive AF. The in-body image stabilization is also magic for handholding old lenses.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2021, 21:01:12 »
Not sure what you mean by metering options being limited. I have no chipped AI/AIS lenses and metering works just fine. The thing it doesn't do is screw-drive AF. The in-body image stabilization is also magic for handholding old lenses.

My understanding is that AI and AIS lenses have no mechanical or electronic communication through the FTZ adapter.

No auto aperture function. Auto aperture has been a feature of almost all Nikkor lenses since original Nikon F.
No aperture indexing of any kind, no f/5.6 Rumba and no AI, Auto Indexing.
No EXIF data on what aperture was used for an exposure.
No Program or Shutter priority exposure modes.

I thought I read that matrix metering does no work with AI and AIS lenses only center-weighted and spot. Functionally there seems to be no difference between an AI and AIS lens and a Leica or Nikon rangefinder lens. It may be fun to use old rangefinder lenses on a mirrorless camera but I don't see them as practical for candid photography or any kind of action.

It seems to me that the FTZ adapter is only really useful for AF-S G and E type lenses.

I guess I knew that there was no auto-aperture but didn't think this out in a practical way.

Dave

I'm out doors with the sun bouncing off my laptop keyboard so there may be a lot of typos. I'll clean this up later.

---

I'm thinking I would probably like a Nikon Z 7II if I could afford maybe three Z type lenses and use my existing AF-S G lenses with the FTZ adapter. Otherwise fun with rangefinder lenses that can't be used with a single lens reflex, at least not to focus to infinity is not my interest. I might use my 135/5.6 and 150/5.6 EL-Nikkors and my 55/3.5 Compensating and 105/4.5 Micro-Nikkor with my PB-4 and or tubes not much else.

I just don't have the money for a Z system at this time.

Dave
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Jack Dahlgren

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2021, 00:40:06 »
My understanding is that AI and AIS lenses have no mechanical or electronic communication through the FTZ adapter.

No auto aperture function. Auto aperture has been a feature of almost all Nikkor lenses since original Nikon F.
No aperture indexing of any kind, no f/5.6 Rumba and no AI, Auto Indexing.
No EXIF data on what aperture was used for an exposure.
No Program or Shutter priority exposure modes.

I thought I read that matrix metering does no work with AI and AIS lenses only center-weighted and spot. Functionally there seems to be no difference between an AI and AIS lens and a Leica or Nikon rangefinder lens. It may be fun to use old rangefinder lenses on a mirrorless camera but I don't see them as practical for candid photography or any kind of action.

It seems to me that the FTZ adapter is only really useful for AF-S G and E type lenses.

I've always used aperture priority and so I must be used to it. I have no problem using the Z6 with AI lenses for candids and action. Set the aperture, set shutter if desired - or use A mode, let auto-ISO do the rest.

AI lenses never worked for shutter priority did they?

Anyway, I understand why you would hesitate to invest in a new system, but I do use mine extensively with AI and pre-AI lenses without difficulty. I just have 2 Z lenses and don't think I'll be getting any more lenses in the near future.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2021, 03:16:52 »
I've always used aperture priority and so I must be used to it. I have no problem using the Z6 with AI lenses for candids and action. Set the aperture, set shutter if desired - or use A mode, let auto-ISO do the rest.

AI lenses never worked for shutter priority did they?

Anyway, I understand why you would hesitate to invest in a new system, but I do use mine extensively with AI and pre-AI lenses without difficulty. I just have 2 Z lenses and don't think I'll be getting any more lenses in the near future.

if only there were a Brick and Mortar camera store within reasonable driving distance. I might be able to touch a Nikon Z 6II at Best Buy. Back in the day I had open accounts at Gayson's Camera in Glendale, CA and Lee-Mac Camera in Pasadena, CA.

I use Aperture Preferred or Manual most of the time. Funny, I don't know if AI lenses work on my D850 in Shutter Priority or Auto? Back in the day I used a Pentax Digital Spotmeter and a simplified zone system for B&W and classic Nikon center-weighted metering for Kodachrome or Provia.

I'm wondering about a Nikon D500 if I could us one with a DK-17M and still see the complete frame. That would offer a 1.2x viewfinder to focus on the matte screen.

What about shooting from the waist with a tilted rear monitor. The shutter lag with the D850 makes this impractical. Is it practical with a Nikon Z 6II and an AF-S G lens?

Dave

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Øivind Tøien

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2021, 04:22:17 »

I use my D500 with DK-17M the whole time. With my sunglasses on I can see the whole frame and the numbers if I press the viewfinder to my face (just tested), but I would not use the expression see it comfortably. I tend to push the sunglasses up in practical use, also because the darker view without that action. I suspect geometry of the face and glasses will affect the outcome, so the only way to be sure is if you can do a practical test.

D500 is an ergonomic dream, likely as good or better than your D850 in that respect and they would very much match each other in the layout. If you can live with or take advantage of a fast DX sensor body paired with you D850 (think though the wide side if used as backup), I personally would not care about the D500 being released quite a few years ago. It is still the best DX/APS DSLR body out there that has yet to be matched by anything, and at much better prices than when it was released. Sensors have pretty much plateaued since its release. With a Z6 (non-II) you could experience occasional banding, and there is still the issues of dealing with two lines of lenses or adapters.  I could be wrong, but somehow i sense you want a D500...  ;D
Øivind Tøien

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2021, 07:19:36 »
Of course buying a dk-17m will be the sticky point, as they seem to be discontinued.

David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikon D500 v. Nikon Z 6II as backup or alternate to Nikon D850
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2021, 12:43:26 »
I use my D500 with DK-17M the whole time. With my sunglasses on I can see the whole frame and the numbers if I press the viewfinder to my face (just tested), but I would not use the expression see it comfortably. I tend to push the sunglasses up in practical use, also because the darker view without that action. I suspect geometry of the face and glasses will affect the outcome, so the only way to be sure is if you can do a practical test.

Thank you for the reply!

This pretty much describes how I used a Nikon FE2. In those days I shot through glasses for the astigmatism correction. I could see the complete frame but I didn't roll my eye to see the corner or I'd have to shift the camera. I had a editor who occasionally did his own PR photography. He had to shift his FE2 to see the corners. I think his facial structure made this a requirement.

Best,

Dave
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