Carl Zeiss Jena Apo-Germinar W 8/150

[Michael Erlewine]

Carl Zeiss Jena Apo-Germinar W 8/150

This is a large, heavy large-format classic lens. I mounted it on the Cambo Actus-Mini B view camera, using the Nikon  Z7 on the rear standard.

Just got it, so this is my first photo, a stacked image of some Tansy from the front of our house.

I am impressed!

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

Congrats Michael, you found a really good lens - nice shot!

***

These "Zeiss Jena Germinar W" were the epitome of Zeiss East lens making and they were very costly to make then, 8 lens elements in 8 groups (!!) with extremely tight tolerances and quality control. I have them all I think, but the 150mm is the most sueful of them, all very heavy lenses house in brass.

There were only three types of them built at the Saalfeld plant: the 8/150mm, 8/210mm, 8/240mm all with a special designed and fit graduated ND front filter to compensate for the cos**4 light fall off.

After the fall of the German wall, Zeiss West too over Zeiss East and decided to dump all at the Saalfeld plant (!!!), a friend of mine was able to immediately drive there after he heard about that and salvage as much as he could, most all the rest went into the dumpster or were destroyed - brand new lenses right from the shelf. He later sold them off to the LF-community with the help of a US colleague.

Docter Optics took over parts of the plant, but Dr Berhard Docter unfortunately died way to early. Docter optics still exists in a much smaller scale,  but no such lenses are made anymore.

Arne Croell worked on the history and has written a very comprehensive pdf document in English about them with lots of images and data:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi_vdTXlPzrAhVPM-wKHZR-CLUQFjAIegQICRAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arnecroell.com%2Fdocter.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1Cj-MU78FJ_bkESsnPCkYR

[Jack Dahlgren]

Congrats Michael, you found a really good lens - nice shot!

***

These "Zeiss Jena Germinar W" were the epitome of Zeiss East lens making and they were very costly to make then, 8 lens elements in 8 groups (!!) with extremely tight tolerances and quality control. I have them all I think, but the 150mm is the most sueful of them, all very heavy lenses house in brass.

There were only three types of them built at the Saalfeld plant: the 8/150mm, 8/210mm, 8/240mm all with a special designed and fit graduated ND front filter to compensate for the cos**4 light fall off.

After the fall of the German wall, Zeiss West too over Zeiss East and decided to dump all at the Saalfeld plant (!!!), a friend of mine was able to immediately drive there after he heard about that and salvage as much as he could, most all the rest went into the dumpster or were destroyed - brand new lenses right from the shelf. He later sold them off to the LF-community with the help of a US colleague.

Docter Optics took over parts of the plant, but Dr Berhard Docter unfortunately died way to early. Docter optics still exists in a much smaller scale,  but no such lenses are made anymore.

Arne Croell worked on the history and has written a very comprehensive pdf document in English about them with lots of images and data:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi_vdTXlPzrAhVPM-wKHZR-CLUQFjAIegQICRAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arnecroell.com%2Fdocter.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1Cj-MU78FJ_bkESsnPCkYR

That is a blast from the past. I have the 300mm f/9 Apo-Germinar in press shutter. It tested the limits of the bellows on my Ebony, but is so light and compact.

Here is another small bit of text about it.

The 300mm APO Germinar is very small and very light. It is lighter than a 300mm Nikkor. Mine is mounted in yet another round aperture Prontor #1 shutter. In use, this is one of my sharpest most contrasty lenses. Surprisingly it is only single coated.

The APO Germinar is a 4/4 dialyte design similar to the classic Goerz Red Dot APO Artar and the Rodenstock APO Ronar. These lenses were originally designed for demanding reprographic work, but due to their small size and outstanding performance, they are also highly prized for general studio use and well as landscape photography in the field. The manufacturer's published coverage is a conservative 46 degrees. This yields an image circle of about 255mm for the 300mm focal length. As these lenses throw a much larger circle of illumination than their stated coverage, you will often encounter inflated coverage claims. To be conservative, I will state that the 300mm APO Germinar is an excellent, compact lens for general purpose 4x5 or 5x7 photography. I would definitely NOT recommend this lens for general purpose 8x10 use. As long as you don't try to push the coverage too much (again, not recommended for 8x10), the performance of this lens is truly outstanding.

Reliable sources tell me that perhaps less than 40 300mm APO Germinar f/9 lenses are in existence.

[bobfriedman]

so I have had a CZJ Apo-Germinar W 8/150 sitting in a box for 8 years..  with a M67 filter and larger mount size it was very difficult to find a mounting board for it.. also, mine is clearly not a Copal 1 shown in Figure 6 of the Docter.pdf that Klaus provided.  This lens is also quite heavy.  Serial number #1347

[Jack Dahlgren]

so I have had a CZJ Apo-Germinar W 8/150 sitting in a box for 8 years..  with a M67 filter and larger mount size it was very difficult to find a mounting board for it.. also, mine is clearly not a Copal 1 shown in Figure 6 of the Docter.pdf that Klaus provided.  This lens is also quite heavy.  Serial number #1347

Is it the one shown on page 18 of this article:

https://www.arnecroell.com/czj.pdf

[bobfriedman]

Is it the one shown on page 18 of this article:

https://www.arnecroell.com/czj.pdf

yes sir!.. that would be it.  and it has a center slot half way which I originally thought was for some kind of water house stop.. but I don't really know.

[Michael Erlewine]

yes sir!.. that would be it.  and it has the center-filter slot.

I have the same one. I have a copal #0 with a Nikon F-mount on which i have  right to fit the Geminar. Works fine.

[bobfriedman]

I have the same one. I have a copal #0 with a Nikon F-mount on which i have  right to fit the Geminar. Works fine.

so I could use a picture as this confuses me. mine does not have a copal #0 shutter, so I don't know how this could be the same. also I don't know how this will fit if the lens cells will not separate as with the barrel structure I have for a Copal #0

[Michael Erlewine]

so I could use a picture as this confuses me. mine does not have a copal #0 shutter, so I don't know how this could be the same. also I don't know how this will fit if the lens cells will not separate as with the barrel structure I have for a Copal #0

I built a series of adapter step rings to reach 52mm and then mounted  an F-mount adapter and treated it like a normal Nikon lens on a view camera. However, that adapter was mounted on a lens board about the size of the Copal #0.

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

Careful guys: Apo GERMINAR and APO GERMINAR W are VERY different animals!!

[bobfriedman]

attached a picture.

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

Bob, Apo Germinar W lenses (150/210/240mm) are available in barrel mounts ONLY and CANNOT be used as Front-/Rear group in a shutter;
their documents are very clear about that. You have to use a rear mounted leaf shutter, or a camera which has a built in shutter.

I have no idea what Michael has done, possibly mount the whole lens into an empty shutter, as he mentioned the shutter leafs got damaged.
But he basically uses the shutter just as a mount adapter, no other fuction, since he uses a Nikon-Z body on his Acrtus, he needs no shutter.

[bobfriedman]

Bob, Apo Germinar W lenses (150/210/240mm) are available in barrel mounts ONLY and CANNOT be used as Front-/Rear group in a shutter;
their documents are very clear about that. You have to use a rear mounted leaf shutter, or a camera which has a built in shutter.

I have no idea what Michael has done, possibly mount the whole lens into an empty shutter, as he mentioned the shutter leafs got damaged.
But he basically uses the shutter just as a mount adapter, no other fuction, since he uses a Nikon-Z body on his Acrtus, he needs no shutter.

I agree... well I never did mount my copy. maybe sometime in the future.

[Michael Erlewine]

Mounting was easy. The rear of the lens has very wide threads, so I did not have what I would need. Instead, I reversed the lens so that the rear was facing out. It has a 67mm thread. On this I place a 67mm-to-62mm step-down ring. On that I placed a 62mm-to-52mm step-down ring, and on top of that I places a BR-2A adapter bringing it to a Nikon F-Mount. I have a lens plate with a Nikon lens mount that is roughly about the size of a Copa # 0. I mounted it that way and it seems to work perfectly, with no distortion. Process lenses must be like relay lenses. You can use them reversed.

[bobfriedman]

yep... you can do that. but I always felt that the lens was too heavy for reversing in that way.  I was worried about bending the front threads.