Back button focus on mirrorless?

[PeterN]

The main reason for using BBF to me is that it allows me not having to switch between AF-S and AF-C. Setting the camera to AF-C and push the back button once is like using AF-S. When I keep the back button pressed, I have AF-C. Quite useful when you shoot various objects/subjects.

[MILLIREHM]

After reading the article once again I find the title even more misleading. Mr Steve Perry himself has not switched technique himself but just thought that shutter release AF in combination with simultaneousely chosing AF field by thumb might be more advantageous in combination of higher Af-field overage of the frame with the Z system.

I'd like to say that besides switching AF field ist not amongst what I'd call fast operation and a high number AF fields does not make it better, still dont see this as a game changer. Neither the main control dial nor the Subcontrol button are perfect tools for fast purposes, and i consider my D700 to have a better control ergonomy than the D4S that came afterwards. Thus I consider focussing and (slight) reframing to be faster.

What would bedifferent if the AF-field choice can be made by eye-view angle (Canon implemented this once but I cant remember that this had been considered as advanced enough to work). Recently eye detection AF works for human beings and for pets. Maybe in the future a more advanced eye detection system that can handle eyes of birds and other widlife creatures might turn automatic AF-field choice to a means of choice.

[paul hofseth]

I found this theme potentially interesting, but not as informtive as I might have wished.

as a constant, but somewhat dissatisfied  user of manual lenses on the olympus penF I have been considering the Z as a better alternative and  I have examined  the risk of  inadvertently pressing buttons on the Z that might interfere with manual focussing and light metering.

The penF has a wheel at the back that cannot be disabled (Short of using superglue and losing all opportunities to reach menu settings).

The problem is that when takoing a strong grip to steady a long and heavy lens like the 400mm ED-IF (with a speed-booster= effective 280mm, so still hand-holdable with sensor stabilization), the control wheel is pressed and moves the focus point. When both the   spotmetering + enlarged focus point where the focus ahs been set is moved, reframing  is bound to fail.

On inspecting the bodies in the local photo shop, I found that the Z has a similar suspicious-looking wheel ready to be squashed, as did the panasonic. the only body free of potentially disastrous buttons was the Leitz- Panasonic clone SL2, but that costs twice as much as the Z. 

p.

[MILLIREHM]

NIkon SLRs have a Lock option for the main AF-field dial (occasionally i am running into having accidentially locked it!) this is not present with the Nikon Z-series. The touch-display functions can be de-activated in the menu.

[Jack Dahlgren]

The problem is that when takoing a strong grip to steady a long and heavy lens like the 400mm ED-IF (with a speed-booster= effective 280mm, so still hand-holdable with sensor stabilization), the control wheel is pressed and moves the focus point. When both the   spotmetering + enlarged focus point where the focus ahs been set is moved, reframing  is bound to fail.

On inspecting the bodies in the local photo shop, I found that the Z has a similar suspicious-looking wheel ready to be squashed, as did the panasonic. the only body free of potentially disastrous buttons was the Leitz- Panasonic clone SL2, but that costs twice as much as the Z. 

p.

I use manual lenses, including the 400mm P.C Auto (Similar to your 400) on the Z6 with no issue of turning any control wheels. Your grip for long lenses should be the lens itself, let the camera hang off the back.Even on shorter lenses though I have not inadvertently turned any of the control wheels.

[paul hofseth]

yes I agree that heavy lenses should not be suppeorted by the camera alone, but a two-point steadying support is better than one and the body is more stongly squeezed when focussing , especially with the feather-light touch necessary for Nikon Internally focussing optics.  One should have thought that introducing a firmware tweak to allow setting the switches to "do nothing" would have been easy, but Olympus has so far not made any efforts to remedy this fault..

I find that muy heavy Angenieux, Leitz and Zeiss lenses require less of a camera squeeze since their focussing implies a supprorting grip on the lens.

The problem on the pen F is not turning the "wheel", but squeezing it that  activates one of the four switches inside. Touch screens provide no antidote and remain  useless for anyone with less than three arms. On the Pen F they can be turned in so as not to eat batteries and interfere with the actual activity of snapping pictures.

So, furtheer to the thread  theme of "focussing and back buttons" ;can the rear of the Z be made totally immune to any kind of push influencing focussing? -Its front buttons I understand to be harmless  and useful.

p.

[Jack Dahlgren]

yes I agree that heavy lenses should not be suppeorted by the camera alone, but a two-point steadying support is better than one and the body is more stongly squeezed when focussing , especially with the feather-light touch necessary for Nikon Internally focussing optics.  One should have thought that introducing a firmware tweak to allow setting the switches to "do nothing" would have been easy, but Olympus has so far not made any efforts to remedy this fault..

I find that muy heavy Angenieux, Leitz and Zeiss lenses require less of a camera squeeze since their focussing implies a supprorting grip on the lens.

The problem on the pen F is not turning the "wheel", but squeezing it that  activates one of the four switches inside. Touch screens provide no antidote and remain  useless for anyone with less than three arms. On the Pen F they can be turned in so as not to eat batteries and interfere with the actual activity of snapping pictures.

So, furtheer to the thread  theme of "focussing and back buttons" ;can the rear of the Z be made totally immune to any kind of push influencing focussing? -Its front buttons I understand to be harmless  and useful.

p.

I'm not sure why you are concerned about focus button pressing when you are using manual focus lenses. There are 10 different buttons/controls + touch screen on the back. All of them can not be turned off. However, it is only the focus point selector which might be a problem for you. You can have it recenter based on a quick press. There is plenty of room on the back of the camera to hold it with the ball of your thumb and not press any buttons. The memory card door has a lump on it which engages the thumb and provides a good grip.

[paul hofseth]

Sir,
thanks for considering this exotic conundrum. Usually when I take a photo I do not wish to press any buttons beyond the shutter release-To faff around with various gimmicks while focussing and not being certain of where in the frame the measurement is taken is distracting. I have had several shots ruined for this reason. Almost as evil as constant aujtofocus.-

The focus and spot metering point should stay in the middle, not have to be returned to its proper place while in the process. Worry that a firm grip on the body will shange settings needing additional key presses is the reason I wish to make certain that this can be avoided.

[Erik Lund]

Here is a link to a similar thread on the same topic


https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=9576.msg160934#msg160934

[paul hofseth]

Thanks for the link, In the meantime I have acquired a Z7 and discovered that its abundance of useless features does include easily mis-pressed buttons. I never use autofocus since I do not believe in getting sharp twigs behind or in front of the subject matter, nor  in pushing various buttons  instead of focussing (a legacy of long time use of manual film based equipment.

The other day I tried my somewhat heavy Angenieux  180mm and discovered that while supporting  the weight by the lens and focussing plus gripping the camera, the viewfinder was disturbed by the "i" button options (I perefer the uncluttered original Leica SL2 viewfinder minus its speed listing), also the little joystick had managed to move the enlargement point to the edge of the frame.

It seems that the only measure that can help is a drop of superglue on the offending knobs. Luckily they will not affect the usefulness of the Z for ordinary still-photos.

One might ask, why get a Z7 and not use its exravagant features? The answer is that nothing else gives 40Mpx + enables good use of most kinds of manual optics.

p.

[Birna Rørslett]

Reprogramming some of these "useless" buttons to put the focus point to the centre of the frame might help?

I agree that one should be able to lock the focus point, but having an easily accessible reset is the next better solution.

[Erik Lund]

,,,

One might ask, why get a Z7 and not use its exravagant features? The answer is that nothing else gives 40Mpx + enables good use of most kinds of manual optics.

p.

Obviously a Leica M 10 R would fit you needs much much better. Oh well,,,

[MILLIREHM]

Funny
My SLRs have a lock-lever for disabling accidentially moves of the focus point- frequently i ran intoaccidentially locking it but rarely accidentially moving the focus field.
With the Z6 lacking a locking feature it frequently happens to me. appears to be the same with Mk II versions.

I think Nikon should do a firmware upgrade allowing just to disable these controls - should be easily doable

[Birna Rørslett]

I think we all can agree that this locking feature should be easy to implement by firmware. Probably we just have to continue to complain preferably through NPS or other entities connected to the mothership.

[paul hofseth]

Sugestions ad the leitz M type above fail to convince me.The simplicity of just setting time, aperture and distance is appealing and seeing not just a bright frame but also what is outside the frame can be useful especially as with the M3 where one could keep both eyes open while framing and having the frame "suspended in mid air".-- not so easy with the more recent finder magnifications.

Although my M-6 has done good service for many years, their optics are compact and first class The camera body is virtually indestructible  despite having experienced rain and snow. However  my various non Leitz lenses , even my leicaflex ones, will not couple to the rM angefinders, and I dislike focussing via a rear screen, As for the current "visoflex" I much prefer the exceedingly bright and accurate original but for its bulk and long register distance  The ugly bump  electronic VF of the Nikon hinders putting it into a big pocket but at least it will not fall off or break- In addition  Leitz´ spares policy sice they sold off all Leicaflex and Leicina parts to one repairer and kept none themselves, fails to convince, While years ago I was very impressed by Nikon finding a replacement rear element for my 21mm viewfinder decades after it went out of production. So a firmware change or superglue remains the best option.

p.