Author Topic: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated  (Read 8293 times)

chambeshi

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2020, 10:31:43 »
The roadmap has been updated with silhouettes of some new lenses:

There is little doubt the 400mm is f/2.8 and the 600mm is f/4 - the first super-telephotos for the Z mount. I had wondered if Nikon would go for smaller versions like the 500/5.6 PF but they are obviously going for the pro sports and wildlife market here.

The 200-600 looks relatively large, probably f/5-6.3 with 95mm filter size

The 100-400 looks like it has a 77mm filter - same as the 70-200/2.8, so the aperture is likely to be f/4.5-5.6.

The 105mm micro is surprisingly large, almost as long as the 50/1.2, filter size looks like 77mm or maybe 72mm. Given its large size I wonder if it is faster than f/2.8?

The S-line 85mm is surprisingly shorter than the 50/1.2, and quite fat which suggests the aperture will be f/1.2. The filter size looks like 82mm at least, maybe even 86mm

The 25-105 looks like about average size, probably constant f/4 aperture and 77mm filter size.

The DX 18-140 is surprisingly compact, probably 62mm filter,

The 50mm micro is not S-line, probably 62m filter.

The 28 and 40 probably have 52mm filter size, I expect the aperture will be f/2.8 for both. My preference would be 40mm f/2 but then it might compete with the 50/1.8 too much.

Thanks for posting  :) Your estimates make sense. Where reach is needed on a MILC, a 100-400 f4-5.6 S should perform fairly well with TC14Z.

On the awaited Z-mount super exotics, it is interesting to look back to Tokyo 1964, when the Nikon F was barely 5 years old and the F system was growing outwards. Nikon exhibited their set of 5 pioneering super telephotos in their home city. Following on the international publicity of the Nikon S thanks to Douglas Duncan's work, Tokyo 1964 can only have added even greater profile to this optical company emerging in postwar Japan!

57 years later, Nikon is in a similar situation with their 4 year old Z system. Not only are the next Olympics going to happen on the other side of the world (Paris 2024), but Nikon cannot afford to miss the global coverage right outside its HQ. This is their big - indeed unique - opportunity to try and bolster their shrinking market share and leverage the profile of the Z system. It would not be surprising to learn their engineers are under huge pressure to deliver high profile MILC products that make an impact in action shooting. Nikon will likely release these Z super telephotos to Pro photographers fairly early next year with the first copies of the Z8 (aka Z9 or Z1).

https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0050/index.htm
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chambeshi

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2020, 10:56:28 »
Going to f/0.7 might have a relevance only for a DX or smaller format system, since the increase in spherical aberration introduced by the larger aperture would require a truly massive amount of optical corrections were the lens to cover any larger format. The Zeiss 0.7 lens was used on a cine camera, remember.

I do hope Nikon maxes out the performance of the future 105 Z Micro-Nikkor, and makes it an APO quality lens. The residual chromatic aberrations of the F-mount AFS 105/2.8 Micro are painfully obvious.

Somewhat off topic.... The use of the Zeiss 50mm f0.7 Planar by the late Stanley Kubrick is legendary, who bought it to capture the candle lit scenes in Barry Lyndon. There's an entire legend around Kubrick's optics

here's the actual lens  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVF1zoyQJHY

most interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p5E7iXxeQE

documentary on Kubrick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK8q6l2dCEA
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D850, D780, 20 f4 AI 28 f2.8AIS 45 f2.8AIP 55mm 2.8AIS+60 f2.8G Micro 58 f1.4G, 85 f1.4D, 400 f2.8E VRII 300 f4E PF 500 f5.6E PF, 70-180 Micro f4-5.6D 70-200 f2.8E FL, Zeiss Distagons -15 f2.8, 21 f2.8

Birna Rørslett

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2020, 12:57:50 »
I have seen -- more than once -- the movie "Barry Lyndon". The candlelit scenes are rendered phenomenally.

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2020, 15:03:29 »
There is the FIFA World Cup in 2022, that should be a good platform if Nikon wants to show off some new long glass. FIFA World Cup can gather audiences of several billion people (3.5 billion watched some part of it in 2018). The world cup in 2022 is at the end of the year so the world should have had a breather after the pandemic. Not so sure about Tokyo next summer.

There is also the Winter Olympics in Beijing in Feb 2022.

Toby

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2020, 08:19:48 »
yes I may be unaware of the full difficulties. I see that f/0,95 is not much more than f/1 but for marketing purposes it can show that it is below 1 (just like 1/300 X-synchronisation where Nikon used to follow Minolta in former days is by far not a full stop more than 1/250) and I picked up somewhere that the theoretical limit of a lens for the Z-mount would be around f/0,5. and that f/0,7 (which would mean full stop more than f/1) would be possible. yes maybe it is impossible to optimise quality and price at the same time though i am sure Nikon has the design knowledge. The current Z-Noct is a wonderful (and yet very heavy) lens but i would not consider it a commercial success on its own - it ist obviously dedicated to be some kind of guiding light for the Z-line

I wonder what makes you think that Nikon has any more design knowledge than any other modern lens maker? These days with CAD, anybody with the requisite knowledge can plug specs into a program and model lenses virtually. The problems rest with the physical medium: glass. There are limits to refractive index and dispersion, unless you have big diamonds you can grind down to the proper shape. It is not so difficult to make a f0.7 lens. There are 50mm Xray lenses of f0.75 around that cover FF and they are reasonably sharp, but the undercorrected spherical aberration is such that it is like shooting in fog. The problem, especially in shorter focal length lenses, is to be able to bend the light enough without creating an absurd amount of aberrations. Saying that Nikon has the technical knowledge is like saying that NASA has the technical knowledge to land a man on Pluto. Technical knowledge and technology are different beasts.

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2020, 12:23:08 »
I am sure that each company (and even individual designers) have some know-how that others don't have.

Nikon did say that the f/0.95 was just a start and that they intend to pursue faster apertures, but it could be that in the current situation this development might not be a priority. Given the cost of the existing 58/0.95 Noct and the current widespread lack of work for professional photographers, it may be difficult to sell a lens that might cost 15k€ or more just because it allows a unique look. It makes sense to pursue such things in a better economic situation one day.

MILLIREHM

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2020, 12:41:40 »
Agree to that Ilkka
The concept of Z-System was made before Pandemic crisis was foreseeable - otherwise it would have required some more adaptations (less S-line optics, more compact design in the roadmap at an early stage).

Toby; i just liked to express that I consider Nikon not having less design knowledge per se than say Zeiss. and there had been some F/0,7 lenses (did not have kept in mind that these weren't full format).
Maybe you know a lot more
Wolfgang Rehm

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2020, 21:10:07 »
There are limits to refractive index and dispersion, unless you have big diamonds you can grind down to the proper shape.
Diamonds would not make good lenses - yes they are very hard and durable and have high refractive index which are desirable optical qualities, but they also have very high dispersion so would have terrible chromatic aberrations (longitudinal and lateral). That's what gives diamonds their colour and "fire". Of course, being being the hardest material, they would also be extremely difficult to grind! :) :o :o

Akira

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2020, 22:30:43 »
Does anyone found any further info on the SR lens which is used in the latest AF-S 120-300 and Z 70-200 zooms?

Canon also developed a special optical element that refracts blue light strongly but that uses some "organic" material and only used inside of a composite element, whereas SR can be used as a single element.
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MILLIREHM

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2020, 22:39:50 »
There was some story of Nikon patenting Sapphire Glass for lens elements - if ever so we will see it in the Z-mount Series I guess
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MILLIREHM

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2020, 22:46:24 »
Does anyone found any further info on the SR lens which is used in the latest AF-S 120-300 and Z 70-200 zooms?


Not so far, didn't even know that the Z 70-200 is using SR glass, thought the 120-300 is the only one until now.
Wolfgang Rehm

David H. Hartman

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2020, 23:03:09 »
...Certanly Nikon can do [much] better than the latest AFS 105 Micro?...

It's a decent lens: It requires Axial Color Aberration correction for every image. It's a honker, really big. The free working distance isn't that good at 1:1. It breaths so it's poor choice for serious macro. AF-S and VR work well. What's not to like?

I bought one because it checked off AF-S needed for my D800 and VR for hand holding were a tripod can't be used. It takes up too much space in my camera bag. I have a 105/4.0 AI and 105/2.8 AIS Micro-Nikkor for serious macro.

I'm confined to the slow lane: at this point, Nikon having released the Nikon Z7 II, I'm getting interested in Mirrorless but if I could scratch together the money for a Z7 II I'd have to use an FTZ adapter as no way in hell could I start a Z-mount lens system.

I'm like a kid looking in the Candy Store Window without a Nickel in my pocket.

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Akira

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2020, 23:16:56 »
There was some story of Nikon patenting Sapphire Glass for lens elements - if ever so we will see it in the Z-mount Series I guess

Isn't that a rumor based on the speculation of SR standing for "Sapphire"?
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MILLIREHM

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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2020, 23:36:13 »
Long years i have thought i wont need AF for macro work. In Recent years I have developed some close-up -action approach where i need it, so the 105 mm AF VR is my latest addition (despite all reasons that are not so optimal). I hope the upcoming Z 105 mm Micro will be stellar. Probably it wont have a tripod mount and I guess it  will be betwen f/2 and f/2,5
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Re: Nikkor Z-mount roadmap updated
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2020, 23:39:47 »
Isn't that a rumor based on the speculation of SR standing for "Sapphire"?

Cant remember where i had it from in original
Found this

https://www.nikoneye.com/nikon-has-patented-a-new-80mm-f-2-0-with-sapphire-crystal-element/

At this time the 120-300 with SR glass was already released
Wolfgang Rehm