Author Topic: Nikon DF  (Read 36953 times)

chambeshi

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2019, 11:25:56 »
Z6 is so much better in next to any respect.

See: I even sold my beloved D3 for my new love D500, but the Z6 is different ... not so good with heavy glass but great with old MF gems

After much agonizing I sold my Df after working with a Z7 for several months. While we here on NG know the many +ves of the Df, The focus-peaking of the Z with classic MFs is in a new league, and it's a pleasure to shoot with 28 f2.8AIS and 105 f2.5AIS.

I think it's a pity Nikon has not upgraded the Df
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D850, D780, 20 f4 AI 28 f2.8AIS 45 f2.8AIP 55mm 2.8AIS+60 f2.8G Micro 58 f1.4G, 85 f1.4D, 400 f2.8E VRII 300 f4E PF 500 f5.6E PF, 70-180 Micro f4-5.6D 70-200 f2.8E FL, Zeiss Distagons -15 f2.8, 21 f2.8

Hugh_3170

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2019, 15:19:51 »
I agree about the missing Df upgrade, but it is an even bigger pity that the FTZ adapter was only half done and does not have an aperture follower and non-cpu lens menus exactly like the ones on the Df on it. 

Then the Z6/7 would be even more desireable for those of us that have legacy F-mount lens collections - especially since decent cpu chips for these lenses are now hard to come by.

After much agonizing I sold my Df after working with a Z7 for several months. While we here on NG know the many +ves of the Df, The focus-peaking of the Z with classic MFs is in a new league, and it's a pleasure to shoot with 28 f2.8AIS and 105 f2.5AIS.

I think it's a pity Nikon has not upgraded the Df
Hugh Gunn

chambeshi

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2019, 14:47:19 »
I agree about the missing Df upgrade, but it is an even bigger pity that the FTZ adapter was only half done and does not have an aperture follower and non-cpu lens menus exactly like the ones on the Df on it. 

Then the Z6/7 would be even more desirable for those of us that have legacy F-mpunt lens collections - especially since decent cpu chips for these lenses are now hard to come by.
The sad news on NR today suggests the Df could be terminated :-( https://nikonrumors.com/2019/08/19/i-think-the-nikon-df-camera-will-be-discontinued-next.aspx/

I couldn't agree more [re FTZ shortfalls] and refuse to stop beating this drum on forums. Apparently someone(s) in Nikon does read these; still I submitted a detailed argument tinto Nikon. Perhaps we will see a 3rd party FTZ released before [IF] Nikon close the gap with a fully functional FTZ. This is not just an adapter supporting full EXIF on classic MF Nikkors (and more) but also screwdriver AF support.

Nikon is unique in the continuity of its F-Mount, and indeed their marketing were crowing about this from the rooftops of Tokyo in broadcast of the Z- release. The truth of F-Mount compatibility is another matter, which is tantamount to false advertising. Poor show

Here's an excerpt of the crux of the problem [emailed to Nikon, 11 April 2019]:
"As we read, the marketing copy emphasizes:
 “Great glass endures. That's why Nikon cameras—from the Nikon F in 1959 all the way to D850—have remained compatible with nearly all F-mount NIKKOR lenses. Why would things be any different with the Nikon Z? The Mount Adapter FTZ lets you keep shooting the lenses you know and love while also gaining the benefits of the new Z system. The legacy of compatibility continues.
And reading further:
 “…So many possibilities.
Compatible with a huge selection of NIKKOR lenses.
The Mount Adapter FTZ works with approx. 360 lenses in total, 90 of which are AF-S, AF-P or AF-I type and have full AF/AE capability.”

More specifically, we read: “Nikon’s new mount system plays an essential role in the realization of this unprecedented imaging system. What’s more, the Mount Adapter FTZ allows long-time Nikon users to continue utilizing their existing NIKKOR F lenses seamlessly with the new system. Shooting with AE is enabled with a total of approx. 360 types of NIKKOR F lens from AI type onwards, while shooting with AF/AE is available with 93 types of AF-P/AF-S/AF-I lenses, ensuring the same operation as with the new Nikon mirrorless camera system.”
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gpU-PYm90DZMEpiBfbO3-FJzqncadCQDB7qgnqlp_FU1k8_9LXUEfLw9PlLkA==/Misc/NIKKOR-Z-Brochure.pdf

Only 25% of F-Nikkors are Z Compatible : The total given of 360 F-Nikkors must be an underestimate. For how many pre-AI lenses (ie older models) are adapted to Auto-Index on Nikon cameras? Moreover, is not “Shooting with AE is enabled with a total of approx. 360 types of NIKKOR F lens from AI type onwards” stretching the scope of an advertising slogan? At least 75% of these lenses do NOT register the aperture setting in the EXIF fields of a Z6 nor Z7 camera. This is infuriating in my experience. In light of the F-Mount legacy maintained into the higher level DSLR models, compatibility of only 25% (likely less) of F-Nikkors is a poor show in the support of acceptable functionality on Z Mirrorless cameras."


#chambeshiphoto
D850, D780, 20 f4 AI 28 f2.8AIS 45 f2.8AIP 55mm 2.8AIS+60 f2.8G Micro 58 f1.4G, 85 f1.4D, 400 f2.8E VRII 300 f4E PF 500 f5.6E PF, 70-180 Micro f4-5.6D 70-200 f2.8E FL, Zeiss Distagons -15 f2.8, 21 f2.8


Roland Vink

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2019, 00:55:01 »

Apparently someone(s) in Nikon read this but I did submit a detailed argument tinto Nikon. Perhaps we will see a 3rd party FTZ before Nikon close the gap with a fully functional FTZ. Not only one supporting full EXIF on classic MF Nikkors (and more) but also screwdriver AF support.

The FTZ adaptor has a built-in motor to stop the lens down (except for Nikkors which use the electronic diaphragm). To drive screwdriver AF lenses, you would need to fit an AF motor inside there too. I doubt it would be possible to fit both inside the adapter.

It's worth taking a look at the old TC-16 for the F3-AF:


In modern terms it could be called an "FT-F3AF" adaptor (F to F3AF). It's job is to adapt F-mount lenses to the F3AF camera and provide limited AF support. The flange to flange distance is roughly the same as the FTZ adaptor so they are comparable in size. Note it is TC only to provide some thickness to the adaptor so that infinity focus can be maintained, otherwise it would be an extension tube :o

Unlike the FTZ it does not have a motor to stop down the lens - the camera does that, the adaptor simply has a mechanical linkage which passes through to the lens. But it does have a built-in AF motor. It does not have screwdrive AF, the optics inside move forward and back, effectively turning every lens into a rear-focus lens (you could focus roughly using the manual focus ring, the AF TC-16 would do the rest). I imagine the motor to drive this would be roughly equivalent to a built-in screwdrive AF motor, and you can see it is quite bulky. Maybe with modern technology the motor could be smaller, but it would be difficult to fit an aperture stop-down motor as well.

So I'm not really surprised the FTZ does not support screwdrive AF. It is disappointing Nikon didn't add an AI linkage though.




richardHaw

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2019, 02:01:57 »
you should get the Df, Roland. they are cheap in japan now  :o :o :o

around $1,100 for a nice one. ::)

Roland Vink

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2019, 03:17:16 »
My D600 still suits me well enough, although a nicer viewfinder would be nice. I'm filling out my m4/3 kit right now :o :o

richardHaw

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2019, 03:28:29 »
My D600 still suits me well enough, although a nicer viewfinder would be nice. I'm filling out my m4/3 kit right now :o :o

well, at least for the non-ai lenses the Df will be invaluable :o :o :o

currently building my Nikon 1 and Cine-Nikkor collection ::) dentures can wait

Hugh_3170

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2019, 07:00:13 »
The lack of an Ai linkage is really disappointing.

What is really even more annoying is the poor support for un-chipped AiS lenses.  Having used the non-CPU menu to supply the Z cameras with the lens parameters of focal length and maximum aperture for non-CPU lenses and confirmation that an AiS lens is attached, why could Nikon have not then programmed the AiS lens support to make such lenses behave like AiP lenses (which do have metering chips).  Why not?

The FTZ adaptor has a built-in motor to stop the lens down (except for Nikkors which use the electronic diaphragm).
........................................................................


So I'm not really surprised the FTZ does not support screwdrive AF. It is disappointing Nikon didn't add an AI linkage though.
Hugh Gunn

Birna Rørslett

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2019, 08:10:19 »
The lamented lack of an AI linkage is to be understood in light of Nikon's move towards an all-electronic camera-lens interface. Still sad and deplorable, of course.

MILLIREHM

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2019, 22:35:31 »
you should get the Df, Roland. they are cheap in japan now  :o :o :o

around $1,100 for a nice one. ::)

There are several cheap Df offers from Nikon - really looks as if they try to sell it out and discontinue
Wolfgang Rehm

Bill De Jager

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2019, 03:40:24 »
There are several cheap Df offers from Nikon - really looks as if they try to sell it out and discontinue

I haven't seen any here in the U.S. at any time in the past and there are none here at present.  I suspect that will change later in the year.

Didier Klein

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2019, 08:11:37 »
In France too, the Df is getting cheaper : 1799€ instead of 2690€ (No, Richard, we're not in Japan, alas !)...Seems the Z-series is getting more and more success !

MILLIREHM

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2019, 17:35:30 »
.....Seems the Z-series is getting more and more success !
I am afraid i cant follow this conclusion. I dont know anything about how Z-sales truly perform, i think it is too early to value whether there is overall success  - but assumed Z-system is indeed successful it is formally impossible to derive that from shrinking sales or lower prices for the Df.

The Df war released as a high-priced (some have said overpriced) camera body for  a limited numer of specialists (the price discrepancies have become bigger in between). So sooner or later some saturation was to be expected. Sales were not high enough to justify a Df2. Nikon has got limited capacities, and needs its manufacturing capability for further supporting and roll-out of the Z-System (whether it will turn out to be successful or not) sales are going down in general, for SLR and for evil
Nikon fosters attempts to gain some additional revenue and might then discontinue the Df (plus some other SLR lines).
Wolfgang Rehm

Didier Klein

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Re: Nikon DF
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2019, 19:39:01 »
" assumed Z-system is indeed successful it is formally impossible to derive that from shrinking sales or lower prices for the Df. "

That was not my conclusion neither, Millirehm ! I was considering the many Nikon gear users who say that they use a Z7/Z6 as a standard workhorse instead of a Nikon F body (Df, D810, D850 or D750, D610...)