NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Dave Becker on July 26, 2019, 06:05:00
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Hi, most of the posts regarding the Nikon Df are 4=5 years old which makes me wonder if you’re still finding this camera a useful tool particularly with Nikon MF lenses.
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yes, no questions about it. its the only Nikon of its kind :o :o :o
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The Nikon Df is my camera of choice when photography is to be fun and enjoyable, not just work :)
I'm on my second Df now as the first met with disaster.
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I find the Df a very personal camera which i mainly use with older lenses, highly recommended! :)
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I also use my Df with my old MF Nikkors.
I agree with Fons and Birna regarding the use.
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I’m still using my Df with delight... 8) It’s just perfect for my use :D
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I love the df, but almost always I use Z6 these days with old MF lenses because focus is so much easier with ability to zoom the viewfinder. Z6 is quieter and smaller too.
I used the df for a long time and some things are great about it, but my vision is not as good as it once was so the electronic viewfinder over-rules everything else.
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The Df has become my main camera since I bought it, in 2014. The D800 does the backup.
It is my nearly daily companion, while commuting, strolling, or travelling, and also finds uses at home.
I mostly use it with MF lenses (Nikkor, Zeiss, Voigtländer, Leitz R), because I mostly use such lenses in the first place. Exceptions are mostly the AFS 85/1.4 and the 300 PF, not to forget the very nice Tamron 45/1.8.
For MF, I did not feel the need for replacing the ground glass, but I've been systematically using the DK 17 M magnifying eyepiece from 2009, wfirst with the D700, then the D800.
I am especially delighted by its IQ; colors feel more natural than with the D800. Very good handling with only a few minuses (exposure compensation control is a bit awkward, while on the contrary shutter mode is easily knocked off position; AF coverage zone is too narrow; I never use the front wheel, which hurts my finger).
It needed servicing only once, in 2017 (aperture lever actuator became weak, then stopped working altogether).
The Nikon Z-something may replace my Df in the future, as I have tested them and was delighted by the results - but not so much by the handling, which is "only" fine. I may have to switch if my eyesight weakens or my hands get less steady, something that may happen also to me (I'm 62 after all). For the time being, I'm fully satisfied. You may have noticed that all pics I've been publishing these recent years, months, days, come from the Df.
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I agree with everything the others say. If
I bought my Df as soon as they were available in 2013. Picture quality was a huge improvement over my D200, which I'd also bought when it debuted. I use a mix of AF and MF Nikkors, and the Df's relatively compact size (as compared to my D200 let alone a D800) makes it easier to pack along on my motorcycle trips.
The Df was criticized for its style, but at least it looked different than every other dslr. Funnily, those same critics never seem to pick on Leica for looking much like film cameras.
Getting the D4 sensor in a small package that echoes my FM3a was more attractive to me than the then 2 years old D800 - both were about the same price. And the D200 replacement I'd been awaiting was only vapourware at the time - the D500 wouldn't appear for 2 more years.
I have only a few nits to pick:
1. the Df doesn't accept Nikon 10-pin accessories
2. the on-off takes too much effort to operate
3. as does the front command dial
The only Nikon I find tempting is the Z6/Z7 - but only as an additional camera. Sadly, my current budget nixes that plan.
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wonder if you’re still finding this camera a useful tool particularly with Nikon MF lenses.
Definitely yes !
Although I am now using mostly my Z6, I still use the Df coupled with old manual lenses.
I guess you are planning to get a Df, aren't you ?
Go ahead !
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Amongst my several SLR Camera bodies, the Df is still part of the lineup. It pairs and balances well with MF- lenses- better than other cameras and it still has got a decent AF when i feel the need for it- also works with screwdriver AF.
The only downside of this camera is the front wheel which hurts my finger even when not used (just when holding the camera) thats a nuissance.
The kit lens not having an aperture ring is a design failure- but there is no obligation to use that anyway, and using the MF goodies is a pleasure.
Got a chrome version because it was the only available then and i did not want to wait but I might a black one to my equoipment some time in the near future. There wont be A Df2 in the near future (probably never) so no need to think for a potential successor.
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Have loved the Df, the only downside for me was grip was too small (shallow) which I eventually got an add on (waited far too long!). And low light auto focus is poor, especially considering how great the SENSOR is in low light!
This forum has a great collection of Df fans! (And helpful to answer questions). Many/ most of us are sad on the lack of a Df2!!!
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Wolfgang, I cannot find the link, but I have seen an add on accessory that fits over this wheel and improves the comfort.
Amongst my several SLR Camera bodies, the Df is still part of the lineup. It pairs and balances well with MF- lenses- better than other cameras and it still has got a decent AF when i feel the need for it- also works with screwdriver AF.
The only downside of this camera is the front wheel which hurts my finger even when not used (just when holding the camera) thats a nuissance.
The kit lens not having an aperture ring is a design failure- but there is no obligation to use that anyway, and using the MF goodies is a pleasure.
Got a chrome version because it was the only available then and i did not want to wait but I might a black one to my equoipment some time in the near future. There wont be A Df2 in the near future (probably never) so no need to think for a potential successor.
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If one of you savvy people could tell me how to use the back wheel when I (very rarely) use my Nikkor PC lens, I'd do so and be able to say I NEVER use that front wheel! Since I've not used the PC in the last couple of years, Im not going to fret about it. I find the grip unobtrusive but effective, but then I don't use heavy or long lenses. Obviously, I am in love with my Df, have been since I first handled it, and intend it to be my last camera, unless there is a Df2, devoid of AF, the front wheel and offers interchangeable screens. There must be other features I could do without, but I've grown to ignore or work around them. Biassed dinosaur? Yes, and unapologetic.
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Wolfgang, I cannot find the link, but I have seen an add on accessory that fits over this wheel and improves the comfort.
Thanks Hugh, that'd be worth searching no matter whether there is a link - good to know that Help exists
(BTW a Df2 design study was rumored with this wheel completely redesigned - its too late for that now Nikon is routing its capacities to the Z System
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Hello,
No intention of highjacking the original poster's question here, i m currently in a dilemma. As a new Dad, i feel my manual focus skills plus lack of video will justify my move from my current Nikon DF to the Z6. I have handled the Z6 at the local dealer on multiple occasions and it does not feel as special as the DF. Especially miss the metal AF-On and AE lock buttons in the perfect spot on the DF.
Would the DF autofocus suffice using say a 50 f1.8 G and 85 1.8G with toddlers? Currently i exclusively use MF lenses with the DF. Maybe video duties would be relegated to my wife's iPhone XS.
Akshay
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Try the 50/1.8G. AF is not too slow. As toddlers move a lot and tend to run towards the photographer (like my rabbit does, by the way), I'd refrain from using longer FLs. Also, the 50 is cheap AND good, so you should not fear buyer's remorse. You may also consult Akira, who does nearly everything else with D750 + 50/1.8 G, and successfully at that.
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Thanks Airy,
I guess i would need to go the the shop and test it out. Any views on the 85 f1.4D instead of 1.8G in terms of autofocus speed and accuracy with toddlers?
Thanks
Akshay
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No idea, I never had any of these. The only thing I know is, when I need *really* fast AF I'd use the 24-70/2.8 G, but that's a big, expensive item.
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Hi, Akshay, this is Akira mentioned by Airy.
I used to use AF-S 50/1.8G on both D610 and D750. Df shares the same AF system with D600/610, and the AF system of D750 is noticeably better in terms of the size of AF area, low light performance, accuracy, speed and immunity to the IR emitted from the incandescent lights.
However, even the AF system of D750 may not be fast enough to chase toddlers when combined with AF-S 50/1.8G. As Airy notes, the 24-70/2.8 zoom should focus faster. AF-S Micro 60/2.8 can focus quite fast.
Although AF-S 50/1.8G is not the fastest lens to focus, it is an excellent all-rounder. It is sharp enough wide open, its bokeh is pleasing, it is very hard to induce flare or ghost. You will not regret having purchased one.
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Thanks Airy for your suggestions and linking me with Akira.
Akira, seems like i will need to head down to the shop and test these. Lucky to have a Nikon 'experience ' centre nearby.
I will make sure i try out the micro lens well. The f2.8 zoom is out of budget and for the size too.
Thanks
Akshay
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Far and foremost one must think of the Nikon df as a mf camera with limited af capaciteit imo.
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Df's AF zone is indeed too narrow for my taste too; I've shot ballets with it nonetheless - but with the relatively fast-focussing 70-200/2.8 G. But generally speaking, the Df is better suited for stills (in MF or AF mode). Now it's for Akshay to judge if it is "good enough" for his use case.
With moving toddlers, I'd expect a relatively low keeper rate, and the not-so-fast AF is not likely to become the main cause for missed shots. I'd just try and take the risk with the 50/1.8 - a very good buy. By the way, I also shot ballet rehearsals with an Oly OM-5 - speaking of slow AF...
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85 1.8G is not the best lens for fast moving toddlers. In the right situation it definitely does the job, but in the wrong situation the AF can struggle (I've used it on D700, now D810). For my kids, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of the 50mm 1.4G and the 35mm f/2D.
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Next to my other camera's I keep the df for mf lenses almost exclusively its strength being the rendering with these objectieve. If you want af look elsewhere!
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Any views on the 85 f1.4D instead of 1.8G in terms of autofocus speed and accuracy with toddlers?
My beloved f/1.4D struggles with toddlers. I came to the sad conclusion that I cannot trust its accuracy. The f/1.8G is much, much better. Once it locks on it tracks pretty well.
As Airy noted, toddlers can be tricky. Keep practising, learn to pick your battles and do not be discouraged!
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As Airy noted, toddlers can be tricky. Keep practising, learn to pick your battles and do not be discouraged!
Good advice on picking your battles (shots) . It has been 16 years since I had a toddler and then I was shooting a P and S. It has been 35years ago that I was shooting my toddling Daughter with an FM and FE, Children , particularly if they are yours can be manipulated for photographs. My 'hints' use a wider lens, as much dof and shutter speeds as the light can handle . Use longer focals for portraits when the toddler is occupied by something.
What do you intend on doing with the images? Depending on your location, I would recommend Photo Books for each year instead of my many boxes of 6x4, 7x5 prints and negs. Get several printed for Grandparents , Kids and yourself. Try and include other important people (to your child) in the images when you can. When they get older they will appreciate people and context.
I've been married a few times and have lost photos (and gear) to several Ex-wives . As a new father you probably want to shoot everything your child does ( I know a very good wildlife photographer who bought a Sony a9 just to shoot their new kid) . With film that was a cost, thanks to digital, not a big expense. Df is fine. Buy what you can afford. Kids get more and more expensive as they get older.
Have fun
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This forum is awesome! Thank you all for your valuable inputs!
My Df is relatively new and with warranty so i can flip it for a Z6 for a manageable loss hence the temptation, especially looking at where i will be in terms of my photographic requirements going forward. Z6 with the Z 50/85 1.8S combo, I'm assuming, will be quicker than the DF + 50/85 1.8G combo.
Tom, other than the occasional A4 or A3 size print for the cabinet or walls, i will collate the digital photos and print photo books as you have recommended. It is a great idea for the future, to look back and enjoy.
My baby jerks due to the Df shutter sound. :) That said i do enjoy taking photos with it more than the Z6 during tests.
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Hi, most of the posts regarding the Nikon Df are 4=5 years old which makes me wonder if you’re still finding this camera a useful tool particularly with Nikon MF lenses.
Z6 is so much better in next to any respect.
See: I even sold my beloved D3 for my new love D500, but the Z6 is different ... not so good with heavy glass but great with old MF gems
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Earlier this year I bought an used chrome Df body with the Df kit lens. I am an owner of many of the AI and AIS lenses and really like to use the Df with those. The image is with the Df mounted on a Nikkor 400 2.8 AIS lens on a tripod and a Nikon polarizer, aperture 11. I just wanted some sharpness, not only the focused point. I use the Df as much as I can! Just pure love!
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Z6 is so much better in next to any respect.
See: I even sold my beloved D3 for my new love D500, but the Z6 is different ... not so good with heavy glass but great with old MF gems
After much agonizing I sold my Df after working with a Z7 for several months. While we here on NG know the many +ves of the Df, The focus-peaking of the Z with classic MFs is in a new league, and it's a pleasure to shoot with 28 f2.8AIS and 105 f2.5AIS.
I think it's a pity Nikon has not upgraded the Df
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I agree about the missing Df upgrade, but it is an even bigger pity that the FTZ adapter was only half done and does not have an aperture follower and non-cpu lens menus exactly like the ones on the Df on it.
Then the Z6/7 would be even more desireable for those of us that have legacy F-mount lens collections - especially since decent cpu chips for these lenses are now hard to come by.
After much agonizing I sold my Df after working with a Z7 for several months. While we here on NG know the many +ves of the Df, The focus-peaking of the Z with classic MFs is in a new league, and it's a pleasure to shoot with 28 f2.8AIS and 105 f2.5AIS.
I think it's a pity Nikon has not upgraded the Df
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I agree about the missing Df upgrade, but it is an even bigger pity that the FTZ adapter was only half done and does not have an aperture follower and non-cpu lens menus exactly like the ones on the Df on it.
Then the Z6/7 would be even more desirable for those of us that have legacy F-mpunt lens collections - especially since decent cpu chips for these lenses are now hard to come by.
The sad news on NR today suggests the Df could be terminated :-( https://nikonrumors.com/2019/08/19/i-think-the-nikon-df-camera-will-be-discontinued-next.aspx/
I couldn't agree more [re FTZ shortfalls] and refuse to stop beating this drum on forums. Apparently someone(s) in Nikon does read these; still I submitted a detailed argument tinto Nikon. Perhaps we will see a 3rd party FTZ released before [IF] Nikon close the gap with a fully functional FTZ. This is not just an adapter supporting full EXIF on classic MF Nikkors (and more) but also screwdriver AF support.
Nikon is unique in the continuity of its F-Mount, and indeed their marketing were crowing about this from the rooftops of Tokyo in broadcast of the Z- release. The truth of F-Mount compatibility is another matter, which is tantamount to false advertising. Poor show
Here's an excerpt of the crux of the problem [emailed to Nikon, 11 April 2019]:
"As we read, the marketing copy emphasizes:
“Great glass endures. That's why Nikon cameras—from the Nikon F in 1959 all the way to D850—have remained compatible with nearly all F-mount NIKKOR lenses. Why would things be any different with the Nikon Z? The Mount Adapter FTZ lets you keep shooting the lenses you know and love while also gaining the benefits of the new Z system. The legacy of compatibility continues.
And reading further:
“…So many possibilities.
Compatible with a huge selection of NIKKOR lenses.
The Mount Adapter FTZ works with approx. 360 lenses in total, 90 of which are AF-S, AF-P or AF-I type and have full AF/AE capability.”
More specifically, we read: “Nikon’s new mount system plays an essential role in the realization of this unprecedented imaging system. What’s more, the Mount Adapter FTZ allows long-time Nikon users to continue utilizing their existing NIKKOR F lenses seamlessly with the new system. Shooting with AE is enabled with a total of approx. 360 types of NIKKOR F lens from AI type onwards, while shooting with AF/AE is available with 93 types of AF-P/AF-S/AF-I lenses, ensuring the same operation as with the new Nikon mirrorless camera system.”
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gpU-PYm90DZMEpiBfbO3-FJzqncadCQDB7qgnqlp_FU1k8_9LXUEfLw9PlLkA==/Misc/NIKKOR-Z-Brochure.pdf
Only 25% of F-Nikkors are Z Compatible : The total given of 360 F-Nikkors must be an underestimate. For how many pre-AI lenses (ie older models) are adapted to Auto-Index on Nikon cameras? Moreover, is not “Shooting with AE is enabled with a total of approx. 360 types of NIKKOR F lens from AI type onwards” stretching the scope of an advertising slogan? At least 75% of these lenses do NOT register the aperture setting in the EXIF fields of a Z6 nor Z7 camera. This is infuriating in my experience. In light of the F-Mount legacy maintained into the higher level DSLR models, compatibility of only 25% (likely less) of F-Nikkors is a poor show in the support of acceptable functionality on Z Mirrorless cameras."
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Massive Df sale out by Nikon, in Europe. Versions offered: with or without 50mm f/1.8; black or silver.
https://www.nikon.ch/fr_CH/product/digital-cameras/slr/professional/df-silver?utm_source=imaging&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=dfpricedrop2019&utm_content=fr_ch_imaging_banner_dfpricedrop2019_ctalink
https://www.nikon.co.uk/en_GB/product/digital-cameras/slr/professional/df-silver?utm_source=imaging&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=dfpricedrop2019&utm_content=en_gb_imaging_banner_dfpricedrop2019_ctalink
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Apparently someone(s) in Nikon read this but I did submit a detailed argument tinto Nikon. Perhaps we will see a 3rd party FTZ before Nikon close the gap with a fully functional FTZ. Not only one supporting full EXIF on classic MF Nikkors (and more) but also screwdriver AF support.
The FTZ adaptor has a built-in motor to stop the lens down (except for Nikkors which use the electronic diaphragm). To drive screwdriver AF lenses, you would need to fit an AF motor inside there too. I doubt it would be possible to fit both inside the adapter.
It's worth taking a look at the old TC-16 for the F3-AF:
(http://photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/tc16.jpg)
In modern terms it could be called an "FT-F3AF" adaptor (F to F3AF). It's job is to adapt F-mount lenses to the F3AF camera and provide limited AF support. The flange to flange distance is roughly the same as the FTZ adaptor so they are comparable in size. Note it is TC only to provide some thickness to the adaptor so that infinity focus can be maintained, otherwise it would be an extension tube :o
Unlike the FTZ it does not have a motor to stop down the lens - the camera does that, the adaptor simply has a mechanical linkage which passes through to the lens. But it does have a built-in AF motor. It does not have screwdrive AF, the optics inside move forward and back, effectively turning every lens into a rear-focus lens (you could focus roughly using the manual focus ring, the AF TC-16 would do the rest). I imagine the motor to drive this would be roughly equivalent to a built-in screwdrive AF motor, and you can see it is quite bulky. Maybe with modern technology the motor could be smaller, but it would be difficult to fit an aperture stop-down motor as well.
So I'm not really surprised the FTZ does not support screwdrive AF. It is disappointing Nikon didn't add an AI linkage though.
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you should get the Df, Roland. they are cheap in japan now :o :o :o
around $1,100 for a nice one. ::)
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My D600 still suits me well enough, although a nicer viewfinder would be nice. I'm filling out my m4/3 kit right now :o :o
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My D600 still suits me well enough, although a nicer viewfinder would be nice. I'm filling out my m4/3 kit right now :o :o
well, at least for the non-ai lenses the Df will be invaluable :o :o :o
currently building my Nikon 1 and Cine-Nikkor collection ::) dentures can wait
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The lack of an Ai linkage is really disappointing.
What is really even more annoying is the poor support for un-chipped AiS lenses. Having used the non-CPU menu to supply the Z cameras with the lens parameters of focal length and maximum aperture for non-CPU lenses and confirmation that an AiS lens is attached, why could Nikon have not then programmed the AiS lens support to make such lenses behave like AiP lenses (which do have metering chips). Why not?
The FTZ adaptor has a built-in motor to stop the lens down (except for Nikkors which use the electronic diaphragm).
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So I'm not really surprised the FTZ does not support screwdrive AF. It is disappointing Nikon didn't add an AI linkage though.
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The lamented lack of an AI linkage is to be understood in light of Nikon's move towards an all-electronic camera-lens interface. Still sad and deplorable, of course.
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you should get the Df, Roland. they are cheap in japan now :o :o :o
around $1,100 for a nice one. ::)
There are several cheap Df offers from Nikon - really looks as if they try to sell it out and discontinue
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There are several cheap Df offers from Nikon - really looks as if they try to sell it out and discontinue
I haven't seen any here in the U.S. at any time in the past and there are none here at present. I suspect that will change later in the year.
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In France too, the Df is getting cheaper : 1799€ instead of 2690€ (No, Richard, we're not in Japan, alas !)...Seems the Z-series is getting more and more success !
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.....Seems the Z-series is getting more and more success !
I am afraid i cant follow this conclusion. I dont know anything about how Z-sales truly perform, i think it is too early to value whether there is overall success - but assumed Z-system is indeed successful it is formally impossible to derive that from shrinking sales or lower prices for the Df.
The Df war released as a high-priced (some have said overpriced) camera body for a limited numer of specialists (the price discrepancies have become bigger in between). So sooner or later some saturation was to be expected. Sales were not high enough to justify a Df2. Nikon has got limited capacities, and needs its manufacturing capability for further supporting and roll-out of the Z-System (whether it will turn out to be successful or not) sales are going down in general, for SLR and for evil
Nikon fosters attempts to gain some additional revenue and might then discontinue the Df (plus some other SLR lines).
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" assumed Z-system is indeed successful it is formally impossible to derive that from shrinking sales or lower prices for the Df. "
That was not my conclusion neither, Millirehm ! I was considering the many Nikon gear users who say that they use a Z7/Z6 as a standard workhorse instead of a Nikon F body (Df, D810, D850 or D750, D610...)
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" assumed Z-system is indeed successful it is formally impossible to derive that from shrinking sales or lower prices for the Df. "
That was not my conclusion neither, Millirehm ! I was considering the many Nikon gear users who say that they use a Z7/Z6 as a standard workhorse instead of a Nikon F body (Df, D810, D850 or D750, D610...)
Thanks Didier for explaining your thoughts.
i am adding the following:
Ideally for Nikon the Z-system attracts users who did not use Nikon SLR before and did not plan to, are tempted by full frame mirrorless system cameras but havent yet had a mirrorless at all or full frame or switch from Sony to Nikon (because of the better viewfinder for instance, despite the not so advanced AF).
The less the Nikon Z -system is cannibalizing the F-system, the better for Nikon.
I dont know whether there are some or many Nikon gear users using Z as a standard instead of F.
But this indicates that they already have one or more Nikon F bodies (or had them and sold them off - which indeed might influence the sales of Nikon F bodies if it becomes a mass phenomenon.
So most of these customers probably had already bought their Df if they'd lusted for its retro design.
Concluding questions is: how many persons were left who still had no Df, wanted to buy one but skipped thad and went for a Z6/Z7 instead?
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Thanks Didier for explaining your thoughts.
i am adding the following:
Ideally for Nikon the Z-system attracts users who did not use Nikon SLR before and did not plan to, are tempted by full frame mirrorless system cameras but havent yet had a mirrorless at all or full frame or switch from Sony to Nikon (because of the better viewfinder for instance, despite the not so advanced AF).
The less the Nikon Z -system is cannibalizing the F-system, the better for Nikon.
I dont know whether there are some or many Nikon gear users using Z as a standard instead of F.
But this indicates that they already have one or more Nikon F bodies (or had them and sold them off - which indeed might influence the sales of Nikon F bodies if it becomes a mass phenomenon.
So most of these customers probably had already bought their Df if they'd lusted for its retro design.
Concluding questions is: how many persons were left who still had no Df, wanted to buy one but skipped thad and went for a Z6/Z7 instead?
I think that anyone who wanted to buy a Df and had not, is not a very strong customer. At this point, though I love the Df, I think the Z is a better camera for most of what I wanted a Df for. The silent shutter, zoomable viewfinder, IBIS and good low-light performance make it a great camera for MF lenses. The only missing thing is an aperture follower on the FTZ so it would capture shooting aperture in the file metadata.
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I think that anyone who wanted to buy a Df and had not, is not a very strong customer. At this point, though I love the Df, I think the Z is a better camera for most of what I wanted a Df for. The silent shutter, zoomable viewfinder, IBIS and good low-light performance make it a great camera for MF lenses. The only missing thing is an aperture follower on the FTZ so it would capture shooting aperture in the file metadata.
For me the Df and a (yet to come) Z would not fulfill the same function. I understand the wish for the aperture follower but I am afraid Nikon wont follow it as they always planned less than 100% of possible compatibility.
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I finally sprung for one.
In most simple terms; "I'm Home."
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The image is from december this year and shows The Fishing Restaurant in Kristiansund town, Norway. I used the Nikon Df on a tripod with the "old" ond really great Nikkor 105mm f2.5 AI lens, aperture f5.5. This combination of camera and lens I really love! Enjoy christmas!
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Super picture with a very good balance between the artificial light and the faint daylight.
Love the emotion.
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Yes, agree. And lovely setting.
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Thanks to both of you, Bent and John!