Author Topic: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?  (Read 33620 times)

Dr Klaus Schmitt

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2019, 22:10:19 »
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2019, 22:33:16 »
Did you win it Michael??

I did. I was the only bidder
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bobfriedman

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #77 on: October 12, 2019, 22:43:27 »
Nikon D3 ,CRT Nikkor-O 55mm f/1.2
1/80s f/1.4 at 55.0mm iso200
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Dr Klaus Schmitt

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #78 on: October 12, 2019, 23:51:26 »
I did. I was the only bidder

Congratulations, very rare lens. You and I should be the only owners I know of...
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Akira

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2019, 01:28:28 »
Nikon D3 ,CRT Nikkor-O 55mm f/1.2
1/80s f/1.4 at 55.0mm iso200

That's a nice one, Bob!
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dickb

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #80 on: October 14, 2019, 17:11:32 »
Congratulations, very rare lens. You and I should be the only owners I know of...

Klaus, was yours the one on the wiki photo, along with the JML and the Nikkor-O? If not, there must be another owner somewhere. And your assumption that I am no longer in the august group of owners is incorrect, so there are at least three owners of FJW 54/1.2 lenses in this thread..

Toby

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #81 on: October 16, 2019, 07:53:57 »
Noooo way to "emulate" the CRT Nikkor-O. Forget how the front element "looks"--these are totally different beasties. While both modified double gauss, there are big differences in optical design. The O has 8 elements in 6 groups, while the Nikon 50mm f1.4 is seven elements in five groups, missing a second convex front lens and adding an air space between the cemented doublet at the middle front. In addition, the Nikkor-O has negative field curvature designed in, and has much higher resolution than the standard Nikkor, not to mention that it is optimized for shooting at 1:5. Adding a diopter at the front of the standard Nikkor will simply reduce resolution and add chromatic distortion. And I don't have an optical diagram, but I'd bet that the optical design of that 1.2-1.4 has a completely different optical design, even if the chrome ring at the front resembles the mechanical design of the Nikkor 1.4.

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #82 on: October 16, 2019, 19:40:31 »
The  FJW  lens arrived today. Am in the middle of several days of a video shoot, so I only had time to do a quickie, to see if the lens tracks well. It looks good and has potential for what I like to do. I had to cobble together an M39-M42 step-up ring to use as a stop ring for the adapter, but it worked.

Just a trial.
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Akira

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #83 on: October 16, 2019, 22:21:21 »
Noooo way to "emulate" the CRT Nikkor-O. Forget how the front element "looks"--these are totally different beasties. While both modified double gauss, there are big differences in optical design. The O has 8 elements in 6 groups, while the Nikon 50mm f1.4 is seven elements in five groups, missing a second convex front lens and adding an air space between the cemented doublet at the middle front. In addition, the Nikkor-O has negative field curvature designed in, and has much higher resolution than the standard Nikkor, not to mention that it is optimized for shooting at 1:5. Adding a diopter at the front of the standard Nikkor will simply reduce resolution and add chromatic distortion. And I don't have an optical diagram, but I'd bet that the optical design of that 1.2-1.4 has a completely different optical design, even if the chrome ring at the front resembles the mechanical design of the Nikkor 1.4.

Toby, I posted this thread because of the original design concept for the 1.2-1.4 prototype: to add a convex element to a standard lens.  This reflects their efficient and effective way to design lenses during the time when it took much longer and difficult to design even simple optics.  At around the same time, the same designs seemed to be shared with minimal tweaks (like the distance between the front and the rear groups) between LF and EL-Nikkors.
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Toby

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2019, 06:59:50 »
I have a different version of this type of lens. It is a JML OPTICAL 56MM F/1.2 lens with an electronic shutter that I have wide open. It has an extension that attaches with three Allen wrenches that is labelled "RAFCAMERA 065 - M42x1. I have not done much with it yet..

Michael, Rafcamera is Rafael, a Russian guy who makes all kinds of adapters and clamps to mount odd-size lenses to M42, 52, 58 or 65 helicoids. He is a great guy who will custom make things for you quickly and relatively cheaply, and with high quality. He can make clamps like the one you describe, but can also make custom screw mount pieces if you can give him diameter and thread pitch. He is online at rafcamera.com. I have used him several times and highly recommend him.

Toby

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2019, 07:05:27 »
From what I have seen of these (not firsthand though) the JML 56/1.2 in electronic shutter and the JML 56/1.2 ESDS 109 in M39 appear to be not the same lens design. Can you tell the difference between the Nikkor-O and your JML, with regards to front and rear lens size and curvature, and perhaps distance between the front and rear element? On the Nikkor-O and the FJW these are nearly identical, with the Nikkor having a marginally longer barrel but more recessed elements, making the distance between front and rear element for both about 50mm.

BTW, nice for you that it came with a matching adapter from Rafael / RafCamera. Perhaps in your lens collection there are other lenses with a 65mm diameter you can adapt with it. Quick testing here shows that the Rodagon Heligon 100/1.6 has part of its barrel in 65mm diameter, as does the Qioptiq XR Heligon 100/1.5 you once got from me. The latter only if you can remove its 80mm diameter heavy aluminium outer barrel though (this is attached with a 72mm thread that is fixed with some sort of loctite, so it is a bit of a challenge).

Raf has the same sort of adapter in 82,5 and 88mm versions, ending in a standard M65 thread. I had him once custom make me one in 80mm. Even if the adapter is quite a bit larger in diameter than the lens barrel, it is possible to mount securely with long enough screws. In that case I usually cut a strip of metal and tape around the lens barrel to prevent the screws from marking the lens where they make contact.

Toby

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2019, 07:11:42 »
Two example shots for the JML 56mm f/1.2

The JML is, I believe, a rebranded Ilex Oscillo Paragon 56mm f1.2. They look exactly the same. Much nicer, if you can find one, is the Oscillo Paragon 80mm f1.3, which easily fits into a M52 helicoid and has a more reasonable flange distance. At least I am speaking about the JML mounted in electronic shutter. I have no idea if the barrel version is the same. I doubt it, since the element sizes seem totally different.

Toby

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2019, 07:29:48 »
Toby, I posted this thread because of the original design concept for the 1.2-1.4 prototype: to add a convex element to a standard lens.  This reflects their efficient and effective way to design lenses during the time when it took much longer and difficult to design even simple optics.  At around the same time, the same designs seemed to be shared with minimal tweaks (like the distance between the front and the rear groups) between LF and EL-Nikkors.

Hi Akira, I got that, but that prototype cannot be too closely related to the 55mm CRT Nikkor for one very good reason: the CRT is deliberately designed with negative field curvature, as are almost all Oscillo lenses (Wollensak, Elgeet, Ilex that I know of) in order to hold all parts of a curved CRT tube in focus at a optimized distance. The general optical design might be similar (anyway, all are some variation of a double gauss design), but the element curvatures are nowhere near standard flat-field lenses. This, of course, gives them the unique out-of-focus look that won't be duplicated by adding a diopter at the front. Just for fun, here are a few pics from an Elgeet STL-Navitar 86mm f1.2, which is a symmetrical double gauss design that says "Specially made for TRW Space Technology Laboratories" It has at least two thoriated elements and is highly radioactive. It has the most wild field curvature of any lens I have ever used (optimized for 1:1) and is, I believe, as sharp or nearly as sharp as the Nikkor-O. It is difficult to use, as the effect is over the top, but occasionally I get a shot I like. Again, that field curvature is what produces the "distorted bubbles" in the bokeh, somewhat similar to what happens in the Nikkor-O in a more limited way, and also in lenses like the Wollensak 75mm f1.9 Oscillo-Raptar, another enormously fun lens in two versions, one optimized for 1:0.5 and one for 1:0.9

Of these, the last two show the same image shot first at f1.2 and then at f4, where the effect becomes a bit more manageable.

Akira

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2019, 07:41:44 »
Beautiful images exemplifying characteristics of the special fast lenses, as always, Toby!

I don't disagree with you.  But I believe that the prototype was also designed with the specific amount of the field curvature in mind: the project had started specifically to record the CRT displays.
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Fons Baerken

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Re: Possible emulation of CRT Nikkor?
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2019, 07:44:54 »
Lovely work as always, completely subjective ;)