Author Topic: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)  (Read 21096 times)

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2017, 20:43:21 »
I used my Df with the 25 cm f/4 Nikkor-Q from early '50s today and got better results than expected. 'Obsolete' does not entail 'useless'. Worth keeping in mind.

Ethan

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 208
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2017, 20:53:57 »
un-pasteurised milk cheese,

Just a small parentheses. You should travel more namely to the South of France around and between Bordeaux and Gaillac where you can enjoy the best unpasteurized cheese ever.

The creamiest of the cream and taste of heaven.

I like this tyoe of obsolete.

P.S. Such is sold in village markets and never in commercial outlets as it is unpasteurized and obsolete.

David H. Hartman

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2787
  • I Doctor Photographs... :)
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2017, 21:00:53 »
...but unless there is a breakthrough using new technology we won't see the improvements like we saw with the D3 generation.

The breakthrough we need is a larger sensor (more square centimeters) to collect more light while the camera size and weight must remain constant and all the lenses we now use must light the new larger image sensor to the deep corners. Is this possible? :)

What about getting more light into each sensor well? I read about a stop is lost for a color Bayer sensor compared to a monochrome sensor.

Can we have Jumbo NEF files so when we amplify the living (stuff) out of an image to increase ISO we don't throw away so much highlight data and clip the DR? I there a possibility here?

Dave Hartman who want to break the speed limit set by physics.

Noise is inherent in light. I never thought of this when shooting film.
Beatniks are out to make it rich
Oh no, must be the season of the witch!

Les Olson

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 502
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2017, 22:19:58 »
Les, it is not for you to decide when a particular item becomes obsolete. It is decided by the users on a case by case basis for each application.

It certainly isn't me and I didn't say it was, but it is equally certainly not, in any straightforward way, the users: the transition from obsolescent to obsolete is determined by the people who make the product and the people who provide the infrastructure support where that is relevant.  If you could not buy film at all, film cameras would be obsolete.  Wouldn't they?

Of course, demand and willingness to produce interact: Kodachrome, eg, had declining sales over many years because consumers - wrongly, IMO - preferred the saturated colours of Velvia, but the decision that demand was too low to justify continuing production was made by Kodak.  There were always people who wanted Kodachrome, and there still are, just not enough to satisfy Kodak. And if Kodachrome is not obsolete, what is?   

To process Kodachrome you needed very expensive, proprietary equipment and specially trained staff, so it was only commercially viable to process it at all if volume was high.  (You can process it as B&W, which is what most people buying it now do, and I have done it, but it is a PITA and after all the trouble it is a not very good B&W film).  So it could not transition to a stable future as a niche product, as other things have - vinyl records, eg, or B&W film - although that always results in higher prices.  I don't know of any example of transition to a stable future as a niche product except on the basis of an open source platform, because otherwise the small producers who are willing to service niche markets cannot.  The thing Nikon could do that would really help Ai and Ai-S users would be to make the F mount open source.

Les Olson

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 502
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2017, 22:37:22 »
Just a small parentheses. You should travel more namely to the South of France around and between Bordeaux and Gaillac where you can enjoy the best unpasteurized cheese ever.

As it happens I live in the east of France, and the village has a maitre fromageur (AFAIK they don't do an emoji for a mixture of ecstasy and fear of a coronary artery occlusion, but if they did, it would go here). 

One of the less well-known aspects of EU agricultural policy is that every cow is subsidised 2 euros per day (more money than 1 billion people in the world have to live on), and the subsidy kicks in if you have four cows.  So it is economically viable to have very small herds, whose produce it is not economically viable for big firms to collect but which is perfect for a village cheese-maker  :).  Of course, dairy farmers in Kenya can't make a living because of EU subsidies, but that is because there is no cut-off at the top end, not because of the bottom end.

Les Olson

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 502
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2017, 23:21:20 »
I used my Df with the 25 cm f/4 Nikkor-Q from early '50s today and got better results than expected. 'Obsolete' does not entail 'useless'.

Lots of things from the early '50s give results unsurpassed by anything of later date.  ;)

Sooner or later, however, there will be none of those lenses left.  One by one they will fall out of bags or get fungus or be thrown in the trash with the rest of Grandpa's stuff when he dies.  You can't expect support for that declining population to continue indefinitely.  There has to be a case made for new production, and ongoing support, based not on nostalgia, but on the photographic value of lenses with fewer elements.   

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2017, 23:32:52 »
The more reason to take good care of whatever gems of the past that surfaces.

David H. Hartman

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2787
  • I Doctor Photographs... :)
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2017, 00:43:41 »
But Nikon is still making AIS Nikkors though for some perverse reason they aren't making the 105/2.5 and 28/2.0.:

Dave Hartman
Beatniks are out to make it rich
Oh no, must be the season of the witch!

Akira

  • Homo jezoensis
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 12825
  • Tokyo, Japan
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2017, 01:56:27 »
But Nikon is still making AIS Nikkors though for some perverse reason they aren't making the 105/2.5 and 28/2.0.:

I think they still make some Ais Nikkors for industrial and professional purposes.  For example, NHK (Japan Broadcasting Corporation) uses 50/1.2 for their own high-speed video cameras as well as 55/2.8 and 105/2.8 Micros for their own hi-res cameras.

Even if the remaining Ais lineups would be discontinued, they may continue to make some on special orders at Tochigi Nikon, like UV 105 and EL-Nikkors.

Incidentally, at Nikon House in Ginza, I heard that the guys from Zeiss bought ten Ais Micro 105/2.8's for their own FA machines, saying that it is sharper than their own Makro Planar 100/2.0.   ;D
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

Roland Vink

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 1535
  • Nikon Nerd from New Zealand
    • Nikon Database
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2017, 02:15:36 »
But Nikon is still making AIS Nikkors though for some perverse reason they aren't making the 105/2.5 and 28/2.0.:
I can only guess that Nikon thought the 105/2.5 could be covered by the AIS 105/2.8 micro. In my experience it has pleasant background rendition so can be used for portraiture (although I have not compared it directly to the 105/2.5). It is also relatively compact compared to AF macro lenses with similar focal length so the size/weight penalty is not too great, and the close focusing ability is useful.

Nikon must have decided the AIS 28/2.8 would be more popular than the 28/2, assuming that most would prefer its close focus ability over the greater speed of the 28/2.

On the other hand they decided to keep producing the 55/2.8 micro, 50/1.4 and 50/1.2, so why keep three lenses with 50-55mm focal length, but not others?

The lack of compact telephotos in the current lineup is disappointing. The AIS 105/2.8 micro is the most compact telephoto in the current price-list, if you need AF the AFS 85/1.8 and AFS 105/2.8 micro are the best options, and they are very bulky compared to the AIS 85/2, 105/2.5 or 135/2.8.

Frank Fremerey

  • engineering art
  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 12615
  • Bonn, Germany
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2017, 07:30:41 »
Seems they double the D500 sensor and leave the rest as is. Good concept. The D500 is a darn good camera. Yet I still hope they will put BSI into the package to combine high ISO capabilities with high Res.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

simsurace

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 835
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2017, 08:19:17 »
In the situations you describe as providing metering, there is NO aperture linkage. Herein lies the clue.
I'm not so sure. I think that Les' D7000 can do it because it has an aperture follower and the camera thinks that there is a non-CPU lens on its max aperture that is set in the menu as f/1.4.
The preceding D90 could not do it and it is unlikely that the D7500 will if it does not have the tab.
Simone Carlo Surace
suracephoto.com

Bjørn Rørslett

  • Fierce Bear of the North
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 8252
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2017, 08:59:06 »
My "problem" is that virtually all my manual lenses for F-mount have been CPU-modified :D Thus difficult for me to evaluate the behaviour on other systems.

Nikon silently wish for the aperture follower to disappear. The 'G' lenses were a first move in that direction and the introduction of 'E' technology takes this change a big leap further. I think we end up with the acclaimed backwards compatibility only being fully supported by the 'pro' calibre camera models. Their marketing department, however, can safely advertise 'compatibility' as long as one can attach virtually all F-mount lenses to any Nikon DSLR.

Hugh_3170

  • NG Supporter
  • **
  • Posts: 2127
  • Back in Melbourne!
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2017, 10:04:13 »
I wonder if this sort of behaviour could ever lead to a class action in the future?

...............................................

Their marketing department, however, can safely advertise 'compatibility' as long as one can attach virtually all F-mount lenses to any Nikon DSLR.
Hugh Gunn

Ilkka Nissilä

  • NG Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1712
  • You ARE NikonGear
Re: Nikon D820 Specs (rumor)
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2017, 10:34:30 »
Well, so far all Nikon FX DSLRs support metering with Ai lenses. I don't think there will be all that many that would feel cheated by Nikon's marketing/specifications regarding this.