Author Topic: Where is Nikon heading?  (Read 57714 times)

Erik Lund

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2017, 13:39:04 »
Sorry - my glass is half full not half empty.
Erik Lund

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2017, 14:22:52 »
Fuji's hybrid viewfinders have terrible quality compared to pure optical or pure EVF. It would be a total loss for me if Nikon went with such a poor compromise. Interchangeable viewfinders or an accessory EVF makes more sense to me as the quality of the image could be excellent instead of low contrast, washed out look of a hybrid.

MILLIREHM

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2017, 15:32:04 »
Nikon never was leading the mass market. But they dont have the Crown in the upper-class they used to have until the 1980s.
And when Sigma holding a more quality oriented aproach Nikon has to react for not being outpeformed when it comes to lenses
Wolfgang Rehm

bjornthun

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2017, 16:08:37 »
Nikon never was leading the mass market. But they dont have the Crown in the upper-class they used to have until the 1980s.
And when Sigma holding a more quality oriented aproach Nikon has to react for not being outpeformed when it comes to lenses
Canon put USM motors in their lenses, and propelled them to the no. 1 position.

MILLIREHM

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2017, 16:31:19 »
Canon put USM motors in their lenses, and propelled them to the no. 1 position.
True, the USM motors amongst others made them get the leading place in pro segment where Nikon had the lead
In mass market  Minolta was the opponent
Wolfgang Rehm

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2017, 17:00:49 »
I wonder what the longevity of those USM motors is?

stenrasmussen

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2017, 17:17:34 »
Nikon could quake the photoworld a bit by:
- Stop making the lower end DSLRs and replace these with well thought out APS-C mirrorless
- Put most emphasis on pro (D5/500/810'ish) DSLRs with modular camera/viewfinders and built in GPS/Bluetooth.
 

bjornthun

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2017, 17:35:04 »
I wonder what the longevity of those USM motors is?
Would be interesting to know, but this isn't CanonGear.  :D

John Koerner

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2017, 17:43:03 »
I thought Nikon did well in the DSLR market (not numbers but products).
The D5, D500 are top of the hill. D810, D750 although at the end of life are still top.
We've got outstanding lenses with the 200-500, 19PC, 105E, 24-74E, 70-200E, 16-80E and earlier with 300PF and superteles.
Main problem for me is QC and price (except 200-500).

This is how I see it, too, Chris.

First of all, I don't really like much of what Thom Hogan has to say (nor the way he says it).

People are confusing "market share" with "quality products."

(E.g., porsche may not have the same "market share" as Toyota, but which company produces better cars ... and which ones would you rather drive? ;) )

Canon has come out with 3 iterations of the Mark V since the D810 has come out, and none of them is as good an overall camera as the D810.

By contrast,  when Nikon comes out with a new product, it renders the Canon equivalent essentially obsolete (as the D810 obliterated the 5D III ... and as Canon's 7D MK II has not a single feature as good as the Nikon's new D500).

I do agree with posters that Nikon should stop making "budget DSLRs" ... they are a wasted effort. Modern cell phones are more convenient and essentially do just as good a job for casual photography.
[For example, my own brother and his family recently planned a European trip. I told them they should invest in a quality camera to document it. After shopping, and shopping, his whole family concluded 1) didn't want to spend the extra money, 2) they didn't want to have to "carry" an extra camera, when 3) they each already had "cameras" in their high-end cell phones. Better still, they each 4) could instantly share their phone-taken photos with friends on Facebook, whereas they have to "go develop" photos taken with a separate camera.]

The truth is, 99% of the population doesn't need a DSLR anymore, because the cell phones now offer excellent image quality, and cell phones are also MORE CONVENIENT for 100% of the population to use as well.

Probably less than 1% of the population is interested enough in photography, these days, to buy expensive cameras and lenses with their cell phones being so good and so handy.
(Let's face it, a camera is a hassle to use, compared to a cell phone. "Processing images" is a hassle to do, compared to instantly sharing images online with a phone.)

Of the very limited number of people, who are so interested in photography that they need truly specialized equipment, and are willing to take all the extra steps that good photography requires, Nikon makes the best overall DSLR products ... in the most important segments ... and they pair those leading DSLRs with the best long-primes ... and comparable "other lenses" with anyone.

Not everyone can afford a Porsche, but those who can "don't care" that Toyota has a "better market share" in the overall auto world.

Bent Hjarbo

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2017, 17:45:49 »
One reason for the decline in marked share, may be related to Nikon not being able to relate to the enormous hype around the mirror-less ILC.
The mirror less may have smaller camera bodies, but if they use a 35mm sensor the lenses tend to be of the same size and weight as the "traditional" DSLR lenses.
If Nikon had optimised their DX lens offerings, they would have had the same offer as Fuji, even with the mirror in the camera.

I have several Nikon 1 cameras, they work fine for travel, pressed also for some sort of sport, and with the CX 70-300 wild-life is possible, but I do agree on all the comment about the user interface, we can hope they will do a V4 with a DSLR user interface, including the flash DSLR flash system.
I the meantime I do the half full analogy, concentrate on what they do well instead of focusing on the thing that should be improved, as I cannot change them ;)

The big deal in mirror-less is that they are cheaper to produce as they have a lot less parts in them and they need less adjusting during manufacturing.
We do however pay more for the mirror-less cameras.

I do some sports photo, mainly cross country skiing, and here I have used D700 and D300s for some years, this year the D300s has been replaced with a D500.
I have also used the D500 together with the 10-24 and the 16-85 zooms for travel, this is actually a compact and lightweight setup, I admit this is not f2.8 lenses, but the pictures as OK. This setup is lightweight enough for me to take it instead of the V1. I admit that for the same weight I could have had a lens kit to use from super wide to wildlife, the attached photo is taken with a V2 and CX70-300. Being of the bus tour not for photographers, the Nikon 1 system was fine.

MILLIREHM

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2017, 17:52:29 »
I wonder what the longevity of those USM motors is?

in comparison to SWM - is there a significant difference or not?
That#d be the question
Wolfgang Rehm

bjornthun

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2017, 17:55:39 »
Nikon could quake the photoworld a bit by:
- Stop making the lower end DSLRs and replace these with well thought out APS-C mirrorless
- Put most emphasis on pro (D5/500/810'ish) DSLRs with modular camera/viewfinders and built in GPS/Bluetooth.
Nikon can't stop selling their lower end DSLRs, since they are one of Nikon's sources of revenue.

The simplest mirrorless strategy I can think of, is to start out with a short flange mount big enough to support full frame in the future. Whether they start with APS-C sensors or 35mm format ones should be up to Nikon's sound judgement.

Nikon will probably go on selling DSLRs for many years, particularly the high end stuff like D810 and D5 and future follow-ups. What would probably go away first would be APS-C DSLRs, but only once a new source of income is established. Nikon should already be working on that.

You need to consider the income statement and Nikon's ledger too!

bjornthun

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2017, 17:59:57 »
Fuji's hybrid viewfinders have terrible quality compared to pure optical or pure EVF. It would be a total loss for me if Nikon went with such a poor compromise. Interchangeable viewfinders or an accessory EVF makes more sense to me as the quality of the image could be excellent instead of low contrast, washed out look of a hybrid.
I agree completely.

Another compromise in the hybrid solution is magnification, which is down to 0.6x, and I believe the eye point is shorter too. Much better to make good OVFs (F3HP) and EVFs (Fujifilm GFX 50) as separate solutions.

ArendV

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2017, 18:04:03 »
As usual these type of discussions tend to end up in defending personal choices in camera gear.

Looking at where Nikon is now I am perfectly happy with their offer in camera's and lenses at different sizes and capabilities.
But we cannot deny Nikon is losing marketshare vs. its competitors and will have to change its roadmap - especially at the lower end - to be successful in future.
They have all the technology in house to be competitive and bend the trend. And mirrorless will not be the only future, but certainly a big part of it.
Arend

stenrasmussen

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2017, 18:15:11 »
Nikon can't stop selling their lower end DSLRs, since they are one of Nikon's sources of revenue.

The simplest mirrorless strategy I can think of, is to start out with a short flange mount big enough to support full frame in the future. Whether they start with APS-C sensors or 35mm format ones should be up to Nikon's sound judgement.

Nikon will probably go on selling DSLRs for many years, particularly the high end stuff like D810 and D5 and future follow-ups. What would probably go away first would be APS-C DSLRs, but only once a new source of income is established. Nikon should already be working on that.

You need to consider the income statement and Nikon's ledger too!

Well, wrt. lower end DSLR sales I just heard that neither Canon's or Nikon's line sell much.