Author Topic: Where is Nikon heading?  (Read 57731 times)

Anthony

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2017, 15:05:42 »
With the increase in pixeldensity the AA filter is indeed gradually disappearing.

I guess you have no counterarguments on what he is really talking about.....

The exaggerated statement I quoted is a give away that the author is trying to make an impact rather than provided a considered analysis.

His diagram of the X-Trans array is misleading because it shows large green squares surrounded by smaller coloured squares - in fact, each of the large green squares should by four regular squares.

He criticises the X-Trans on the basis of strangely exposed in camera jpegs shot in poor light, while admitting that raws can be converted well.  It is true that some convertors (e.g. Adobe) do a less than stellar job on X-Trans, but others such as Iridient and Photo Ninja do an excellent job.  So the source of the problem is the convertor, not the sensor as such.

The internet is full of bloggers who try to create attention by inaccurate, misleading or deliberately provocative statements.  Mostly they are not worth detailed analysis.  I have not spent a huge amount of time on this article, because the above issues tell my there are better things to do with my time.

Does the article match your experience of the X-Trans?
Anthony Macaulay

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2017, 15:35:06 »
Why does Nikon still push out new low end DSLRs when their sales are so bad?
What is Nikon doing to counter-act the mirrorlessers?

It's because the of the low-end dSLR's success that Nikon was paralyzed in the mirrorless market.  One of the things that Nikon's Naoki Kitaoka boasted about last year was ‘we're not seeing cannibalization between the DSLR and the Nikon 1: the customer is completely different.'  Avoiding cannibalization is why Nikon went with a 1" sensor and a high price point for the 1 series.  In doing so, Nikon's marketing department forgot a fundamental truism.  It's better to cannibalize your own market share than have someone else come in and take it from you.  They also forgot just how difficult it is to sell a reduced size "luxury" product in the United States.

In my opinion, most of the lower sales of consumer dSLR's is due to a combination of fashion and market saturation.  Simply put, a lot of consumers already have a dSLR that does what they ask of it.  They'd rather spend their money on phones, drones, or other high tech toys.  But while sales are down in percentage, the absolute numbers absolutely dwarf sales of professional and prosumer gear.  This gives the consumer group a lot of power, which is why we end up with a never ending series of 18-xxx lenses.

I'm not sure that Nikon's in a precarious position yet -- it may just be that the inevitable end to the boom has come.  But if they end up in a precarious position, it won't be the first time that Nikon's marketing department lead them there.  Nikon initially treated technologies such as autofocus, TTL flash, and VR as "sizzle" -- they didn't think that pros wanted or needed them.  As a result, the F4 generation of cameras were a disaster for them in market share, and Canon had the stabilized telephoto market to themselves for nearly a decade.  The second time was when dSLR's were just taking off.  Canon's first Digital Rebel had the under $1000 market to themselves for an entire Christmas season, while Nikon tried to sell the less capable D100 for $1500.  As for professional cameras, Nikon's announcement of the 4 megapixel D2h was rapidly eclipsed by an 8 megapixel 1.3 crop Canon.

At both times, Nikon eventually stopped the bleeding.  The F5/F100/F80 series of cameras were excellent and well received.  The D2x was solid.  The 18-70mm f/3.5~4.5 was so much better than Canon's 18-55mm of the time that the "me too" 6MP D70 competed successfully against 8MP Canon cameras.  And the 18-200mm generated actual excitement for Nikon for the first time in years if not decades.

I actually look at lenses like the 105mm f/1.4 the 200-500mm, and the new 70-200mm VR-III as hopeful signs.  It looks like Nikon is trying to establish it's professional products at a higher quality level than Canon.  But the perception of the 24-70mm VR may indicate a misstep, no matter what the technical reality may be.  But whether they realize it or not, Nikon and Canon are facing a real challenge from Sigma and Zeiss.  While brand loyalty helps, if you're Nikon or Canon you can't afford to only offer the 3rd (or 4th or 5th) best 85mm 1/4 or 50mm f/1.4 lenses.

As for myself?  Like those "consumers," my basic needs are more than met by my current gear.  I will eventually want to upgrade my wide-angle zooms and perhaps my 150-500mm Sigma, but I'm in no hurry to do so.  Instead, I'll be watching the EVIL market with an eye towards replacing my V1.  But as long as the "cannibalization" mindset holds, it's unlikely to be with a Nikon.

bjornthun

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2017, 15:55:17 »
Rather than a 1" camera, I would just put the money toward a new iPhone. 1" compacts (with or without lens mount) have had their time.

John Koerner

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2017, 16:00:43 »
It's because the of the low-end dSLR's success that Nikon was paralyzed in the mirrorless market.  One of the things that Nikon's Naoki Kitaoka boasted about last year was ‘we're not seeing cannibalization between the DSLR and the Nikon 1: the customer is completely different.'  Avoiding cannibalization is why Nikon when with a 1" sensor and a high price point for the 1 series.  In doing so, Nikon's marketing department forgot a fundamental truism.  It's better to cannibalize your own market share than have someone else come in and take it from you.  They also forgot just how difficult it is to sell a reduced size "luxury" product in the United States.

In my opinion, most of the lower sales of consumer dSLR's is due to a combination of fashion and market saturation.  Simply put, a lot of consumers already have a dSLR that does what they ask of it.  They'd rather spend their money on phones, drones, or other high tech toys.  But while sales are down in percentage, the absolute numbers absolutely dwarf sales of professional and prosumer gear.  This gives the consumer group a lot of power, which is why we end up with a never ending series of 18-xxx lenses.

I'm not sure that Nikon's in a precarious position yet -- it may just be that the inevitable end to the boom has come.  But if they end up in a precarious position, it won't be the first time that Nikon's marketing department lead them there.  Nikon initially treated technologies such as autofocus, TTL flash, and VR as "sizzle" -- they didn't think that pros wanted or needed them.  As a result, the F4 generation of cameras were a disaster for them in market share, and Canon had the stabilized telephoto market to themselves for nearly a decade.  The second time was when dSLR's were just taking off.  Canon's first Digital Rebel had the under $1000 market to themselves for an entire Christmas season, while Nikon tried to sell the less capable D100 for $1500.  As for professional cameras, Nikon's announcement of the 4 megapixel D2h was rapidly eclipsed by an 8 megapixel 1.3 crop Canon.

At both times, Nikon eventually stopped the bleeding.  The F5/F100/F80 series of cameras were excellent and well received.  The D2x was solid.  The 18-70mm f/3.5~4.5 was so much better than Canon's 18-55mm of the time that the "me too" 6MP D70 competed successfully against 8MP Canon cameras.  And the 18-200mm generated actual excitement for Nikon for the first time in years if not decades.

I actually look at lenses like the 105mm f/1.4 the 200-500mm, and the new 70-200mm VR-III as hopeful signs.  It looks like Nikon is trying to establish it's professional products at a higher quality level than Canon.  But the perception of the 24-70mm VR may indicate a misstep, no matter what the technical reality may be.  But whether they realize it or not, Nikon and Canon are facing a real challenge from Sigma and Zeiss.  While brand loyalty helps, if you're Nikon or Canon you can't afford to only offer the 3rd (or 4th or 5th) best 85mm 1/4 or 50mm f/1.4 lenses.

As for myself?  Like those "consumers," my basic needs are more than met by my current gear.  I will eventually want to upgrade my wide-angle zooms and perhaps my 150-500mm Sigma, but I'm in no hurry to do so.  Instead, I'll be watching the EVIL market with an eye towards replacing my V1.  But as long as the "cannibalization" mindset holds, it's unlikely to be with a Nikon.

This is a great post.

Agree with pretty much everything.

If you look at what Nikon is doing with its newest best gear, it is ahead of every other manufacturer.

Best base ISO camera; best high ISO camera; best AF capability; every FL super-telephoto lens is "best in class" ... and they just came out with the 105mm f/1.4 "The New King."

Sigma to me is more of a threat (as you say to both Nikon and Canon), because they are offering great lenses at great prices ... whereas Zeiss offers great lenses at astronomical prices.

Let's face it, "the ability to take good photos" is no longer a novelty ... anyone can do this now, with a damned cell phone.

The ability to take GREAT photos still requires a camera (be it mirrorless or DSLR) ... especially macro and sports/wildlife.

With cell phones eating up low-end market, ALL camera manufacturers would be well advised to dump the low-end of their arsenal, and (pardon the pun) "focus" on making the best photography equipment possible ... that no "phone" will ever be able to duplicate.

Jack

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2017, 17:24:06 »
Looking at my statistics (Lr: number of picture taken / withheld by camera model), I notice that the share of pictures withheld with smartphones is increasing year on year, exceeding now 10% of my production. Main raison being, the on-hand availability, together with the improving quality and the facility to transfer and process the pictures immediately (Lr Mobile).  If this is already my case, imagine what the trend is with "non-photographers". In addition, I'm using drones for about 7 years; started as a simple curiosity; now the quality is there and affordable: DJI Mavic Pro, 12Mpx DNG quality pictures, which will also make an additional dent into my personal DSLR market share. What else ? May be a (very) partial return to film camera to exploit my underused Leica M6, together with the project to digitize my film library (Epson V8xx planned). This is my personal trend. But for me, Coolpix like cameras are definitely out. And if I watch my children, the trend is even stronger. Difficult to bring them to the DSLR world, although my son is a good photographer.

Now, I'm far from sure that my personal trends are a proxy for the market ...

With regard to mirrorless, I had the chance to do a quite lengthy excursion with the Leica SL and Sony Alpha (thanks to a friend who has the largest retail shop in Geneva and is an NPS and Sony agent) I have big difficulties with viewing through an EVF, at least it is not for me. The advantages are apparently more on the side of the manufacturer, from a economic point of view, enabling to produce cheaper cameras.
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stenrasmussen

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2017, 17:48:16 »
The mobile phones will undoubtly eat well into the compact/enthusiast 1" sensor segment. If Sigma and Tamron continous to offer lenses like they have lately, both the big boys need to get their act together and do more of the AF-S 105/1.4, EF 11-24/4, etc. Weather sealed, well corrected pro glass is absent across much of their lines. The modern world won't wait I'm afraid.

ArendV

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2017, 18:11:32 »
Does the article match your experience of the X-Trans?

Thanks Anthony for your second reaction that is actually a counter argument that makes sense to me. And no I don't have enough eperience with X-Trans to validate his experience. Only brought the article in to try to balance the discussion on directions brands are taking (and that probably failed).
Arend

bjornthun

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2017, 18:51:14 »
Looking at my statistics (Lr: number of picture taken / withheld by camera model), I notice that the share of pictures withheld with smartphones is increasing year on year, exceeding now 10% of my production. Main raison being, the on-hand availability, together with the improving quality and the facility to transfer and process the pictures immediately (Lr Mobile).  If this is already my case, imagine what the trend is with "non-photographers". In addition, I'm using drones for about 7 years; started as a simple curiosity; now the quality is there and affordable: DJI Mavic Pro, 12Mpx DNG quality pictures, which will also make an additional dent into my personal DSLR market share. What else ? May be a (very) partial return to film camera to exploit my underused Leica M6, together with the project to digitize my film library (Epson V8xx planned). This is my personal trend. But for me, Coolpix like cameras are definitely out. And if I watch my children, the trend is even stronger. Difficult to bring them to the DSLR world, although my son is a good photographer.

Now, I'm far from sure that my personal trends are a proxy for the market ...

With regard to mirrorless, I had the chance to do a quite lengthy excursion with the Leica SL and Sony Alpha (thanks to a friend who has the largest retail shop in Geneva and is an NPS and Sony agent) I have big difficulties with viewing through an EVF, at least it is not for me. The advantages are apparently more on the side of the manufacturer, from a economic point of view, enabling to produce cheaper cameras.
The advantage of the EVF is definitely on the side of the user. There is no way I can be sure of getting correct manual focus with a DSLR OVF. With an EVF, offering a focus magnifier and peaking both easily accesible, manual focusing is a breeze for me. An optical rangefinder (Leica M) works fine to, but not DSLR OVFs. Compared to film SLRs, the OVFs in DSLRs have declined in quality. And yes, I've waisted money on alternative focusing screens to no avail.

So, don't suggest that the EVF is there only for the benefit of the manufacturer. You're wrong in that false assumption. Don't assume that one size fits all.

Nikon offers no full frame mirrorless, and I left Nikon behind.

MFloyd

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2017, 19:13:40 »
So, don't suggest that the EVF is there only for the benefit of the manufacturer. You're wrong in that false assumption. Don't assume that one size fits all.

Nikon offers no full frame mirrorless, and I left Nikon behind.

If you have read to the end, you would have noticed that I emphasised only expressing my personal view, in my particular context (action photography), and that this was not meant to be the UNIVERSAL TRUTH.  And if I need absolute certainty about sharpness with my DSLR, there is something called LifeView which gives me all what I want.  In the perspective of the purpose of this thread, I didn't want to elaborate further into what I don't like in EVF.
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bjornthun

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2017, 19:18:23 »
If you have read to the end, you would have noticed that I emphasised only expressing my personal view, in my particular context (action photography), and that this was not meant to be the UNIVERSAL TRUTH.  And if I need absolute certainty about sharpness with my DSLR, there is something called LifeView which gives me all what I want.  In the perspective of the purpose of this thread, I didn't want to elaborate further into what I don't like in EVF.
Din't assume I didn't read to the end.

pkol

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2017, 09:31:47 »
May be not so bad.  Nikon finally decided to do some fundamental company re-engineering.  They also cancelled the DL line http://nikonrumors.com/2017/02/13/nikon-cancels-all-three-dl-cameras-because-of-profitability-concerns-no-word-on-future-development.aspx/
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2017, 10:10:50 »
Cancelling the DL line is probably a wise decision in the longer run. However also a pity as I had set my eyesight on the DL 18-50. Oh well. Money can be spent in other manners, no doubt.

richardHaw

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2017, 10:21:36 »
This is bad indeed as there is poor demand for these cameras. they also somewhat overlap with some compact cameras that they have at the moment :o :o :o

personally, when I held the DL cameras last year at CP+ i really do not know if these will sell, specially for the price that Nikon is asking for. You can even find my videos on youTube. The only one I liked was the small one.

it just made sense to cancel this but the money spent is just wasted. i hope that Nikon redirects the cash for that on a ground breaking and epoch-making product (like the digital SP Rf camera  ::) )

Pistnbroke

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Re: Where is Nikon heading?
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2017, 10:35:11 »
QUOTE

one can use epoxy to ensure the mode dial literally is stuck in a specific position

Can I suggest that you just roll an "o" ring over the knob.  It will sit at the bottom between body and dial and make it quite stiff to move..but you can if you want .
I think you are looking at 20mm x 2mm but I sold my D3300

Always listen to old people or when they die you live on in ignorance