Author Topic: Cameras: Coming Full Circle  (Read 42900 times)

David H. Hartman

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2016, 22:23:30 »
All of my large format lenses are Nikkors. They were first to multi coat while Schneider offered sing coated lenses with soft coatings. As I recall the large format Nikkors where soon eclipsed by Rodenstock. The exceptionn was the ED tele Nikkors.

Dave
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David H. Hartman

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2016, 22:47:36 »
Michael,

Have you considered a 6x9cm view camera? I don't see the short hop from FX to near double 35 worth starting a new system.

Linhof makes a beautiful 6x9 view camera. You might consider a used view camera. I'm sure there are lower cost 6x9s available. With a 6x9 view camera you get swing and tilts without the problems of an SLR mirror box and the cost of a true medium format camera system is probably higher than a 6x9 view camera.

Best,

Dave
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2016, 23:55:20 »
I am pretty clear about what I want. For one, I want a small enough system to easily travel with. Not too large or conspicuous, but high quality images. The X1D is small siszed, fits in a fairly small bag, and seems right. I have a bunch of tlit/shift systems, the Nikon D810 (and many lenses), and so on.

Unless the X1D is a dud, in which case I will return it and wait for the Fuji or an eventual Nikon 50 Mpx. Otherwise I will enjoy the Haselblad and see what else turns up. My plan is to move away from just close-up and toward landscapes and portraits, etc.
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Danulon

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2016, 00:13:38 »
I am still with the first reply.


You say that you need a compact high Resolution set "NOW".


That won't happen. At least not the way you imagine and if you include the time for researching, purchasing, testing, learning usage of your new set by mind... How much time would you consider to be required to run thru these steps? How long until Nikon supposedly releases its successor to the D810? How much money do you "burn" during your tests? (Or does money not matter in your equation?) How much time could you spend taking more photos instead? Is it worth the commotion?


Just a total amateur's two cents.


Cheers,
Günther
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2016, 00:20:45 »
'Me thinks thou dost protest too much." I am fine. Don't worry about me. I am selling some lenses and purchasing the X1D. I still have everything else I have used. I am not 30 years old. Time for me to take photos and the X1D looks like it can do it. I have read VERY carefully, and trust Ming Thein as a judge of cameras, having followed him for years and used most of the same Nikon-related gear that he does.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2016, 00:26:35 »
Here is what I have been doing for a long time, this with the D810 and the Noct Nikkor. I like it, but I am ready for portraits and landscapes.
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bjornthun

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2016, 01:16:41 »
Michael,
How great is the real difference between 50mp on Hasselblad X1D and 36mp on Nikon FX? Maybe the lenses will be an important part of the equation too? What about using the Zeiss lenses (Otus? , 135/2 Apo Sonnar) you already own? Maybe the Nikon AF-S 58/1.4 or Nikon AF-S 105/1.4 will give what you are looking for, and they can be used for portraits.

The Nikon AF-S 58/1.4 might not get top scores in every test out there, but I've lots of nice images from it on fredmiranda.com. So in capable hands...

Maybe a 105/1.4 can give some medium format look?

If you're happy with the Nikon D810 bodies, why not stick with them? Perhaps there will be a D820 with the 42mp sensor from the Sony A7RmkII in just a few months? 42mp or 50mp are almost the same in linear resolution...


Michael Erlewine

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2016, 01:30:13 »
Michael,
How great is the real difference between 50mp on Hasselblad X1D and 36mp on Nikon FX? Maybe the lenses will be an important part of the equation too? What about using the Zeiss lenses (Otus? , 135/2 Apo Sonnar) you already own? Maybe the Nikon AF-S 58/1.4 or Nikon AF-S 105/1.4 will give what you are looking for, and they can be used for portraits.

The Nikon AF-S 58/1.4 might not get top scores in every test out there, but I've lots of nice images from it on fredmiranda.com. So in capable hands...

Maybe a 105/1.4 can give some medium format look?

If you're happy with the Nikon D810 bodies, why not stick with them? Perhaps there will be a D820 with the 42mp sensor from the Sony A7RmkII in just a few months? 42mp or 50mp are almost the same in linear resolution...

Larger sensors like the Sony 50 Mpx are not just larger; they have larger photosites that capture more light. Haselblad has its own take on color, etc. and etc. I did not really like the Sony A7r II and sold it.

Medium format cameras give the medium-format look, at least until Nikon comes up with a larger sensor. I am getting the X1D and I will return it if it does not give me what I am looking for.
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David H. Hartman

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2016, 02:49:20 »
Part of the.medium format look is the 56 millimeters on the long side of 6x6 or 6x4.5 formats. Size matters not just the number of megapixels but the physical dimensions of the format. The focal length of the lenses used for a particular working distance, crop and perspective. The size of the entrance pupil and more. It all matters. 42 or 50 megapixels won't materially change the look if the format dimensions are still 36x24mm.

Dave
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Erik Lund

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2016, 09:31:43 »
Looking forward to your findings of the quality of the new Hasselblad and their lens series!
Erik Lund

Les Olson

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2016, 10:11:05 »
Part of the.medium format look is the 56 millimeters on the long side of 6x6 or 6x4.5 formats. Size matters not just the number of megapixels but the physical dimensions of the format.

A digital image file does not have a "long side".  What you say is certainly true in the film realm, because for any given print size you cannot change the output resolution except by using a bigger negative.  Larger negatives = better prints.  But in digital you can change the output resolution.  When sensors were 6MP the point was academic, because 8 x 10 at 300 dpi is over 7MP, but 13 x 19 at 300 dpi is only just over 22MP, so at 50MP you can have just about any print size at just about any output resolution, and larger sensors no longer = better prints. 

Another aspect of the medium format look is, as you say, lens focal length and entry pupil, and that is still there in the digital realm.  But compared to the effect of larger negatives on print quality those things are minor.  Plus, of course, in the case of the small-medium format cameras like the X1D and the Fuji the effect disappears, because the fastest Fuji lens is a 63mm f/2.8 and the fastest Hasselblad is a 90mm f/3.2. 

simsurace

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2016, 13:35:32 »
Larger sensors like the Sony 50 Mpx are not just larger; they have larger photosites that capture more light.
The Sony 50 Mpx sensor is not any larger than the D810 sensor, nor does it have larger photosites. The sensor of the Sony A7R II has about the same size as that of the D810, and it has smaller photosites, but more of them. What were you trying to say here?
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2016, 13:39:18 »
I think he's talking about the Sony 50MP sensor with 33mm x 44mm dimensions that is used by several medium format cameras.

Akira

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2016, 13:39:38 »
Michael, did you wait for the A7RII to offer uncompressed 14bit RAW after the firmware update?
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bjornthun

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Re: Cameras: Coming Full Circle
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2016, 14:35:50 »
Larger sensors like the Sony 50 Mpx are not just larger; they have larger photosites that capture more light. Haselblad has its own take on color, etc. and etc. I did not really like the Sony A7r II and sold it.

Medium format cameras give the medium-format look, at least until Nikon comes up with a larger sensor. I am getting the X1D and I will return it if it does not give me what I am looking for.
Michael,
What I had in mind was not for you to repurchase the Sony A7R mkII, but to wait and see, if Nikon in a few months will offer a D820 with the same 42mp sensor, or maybe an even better sensor. Nikon is known to be able to extract even more quality from Sony sensors, than Sony do themselves.

Another aspect of Hasselblad X1D is that the operation of the camera is very modern with command wheels and a touch menu interface. This makes me think that you should try before you buy, if you didn't like Sony. This since Sony has a very modern, almost computer like interface. (Yes, Sony needs to work on the user interface.)

I hope this helps. :)