View Camera Lenses for the DSLR

[Michael Erlewine]

I am still just learning about the various View Camera lenses. Not sure how many on this forum know this stuff, but here is where I am at and I could use some input.

It seems that these View Camera lenses (often in Copal 0 format) are very sharp at small apertures (f/16 – f/22). And there are the older-style  lenses and a newer (“Digital”) View Camera series of lenses that have smaller image circles and work well on the 35mm format that I am used to. So it seems, bokeh is at a priority with these lenses. And so are fast apertures.

If anyone knows, what are the View Camera lenses that are sharp wide-open as opposed to reaching their sharpness at smaller apertures? There are so many different View Camera lenses, versions, and formats that it is hard to get a handle on which ones to consider.

My interest is Tilt/Shift on a bellows system, but I don’t want everything in focus (f/16 – f/22), but would like to see some sharp lenses that are faster. I apologize for my ignorance, but that’s where I am at now. Thanks for any pointers!

[David H. Hartman]

For lenses on a DSLR you'll likely want lenses that deliver at f/5.6 to f/11. By f/16 and especially at f/22 diffraction will cause significant softening of the image on "miniature formats," e.g. 36x24mm and 24x16mm.

Dave

[Akira]

Frankly speaking, I would be skeptical about the possibility of finding any MF lens that is sharp enough to satisfy your requirement on the "small and hi-res" FX sensor wide open.  The MF and larger format doesn't require the same resolving power as the smaller format in the first place.

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

Frankly speaking, I would be skeptical about the possibility of finding any MF lens that is sharp enough to satisfy your requirement on the "small and hi-res" FX sensor wide open.  The MF and larger format doesn't require the same resolving power as the smaller format in the first place.

Yes indeed Akira, "normal" MF or LF lenses will not do - but there are special ones ;-)

[Michael Erlewine]

OK. Putting MF lenses aside, what about Large Format View Camera lenses.

I see that companies like Schneider have 47mm lenses. On a bellows with the Nikon D810, how would the work out? This is supposed to be ultra-wide on a technical camera, but on the D810 I am not clear what they would cover. How does one compare 36 Mpx to view-camera lenses?

[pluton]

You'll find that the dimensions of the image circle are part of the routine tech data supplied by the manufacturers.

[benveniste]

You'll find that the dimensions of the image circle are part of the routine tech data supplied by the manufacturers.

Unfortunately, like most large format lens manufacturers, in the "routine tech data" Schneider gives the image circle at f/22.  However, you can get a better idea from the MTF charts.  Wide open, the 47mm still has a minimum image circle of 120mm+:

However, as long as you are there, you can see that by dSLR standards the MTF looks downright weak, even though the charts only go to 20 lp/mm.  Another challenge facing the original poster is that at infinity, the back focus distance for this lens is around 29mm, meaning that it's unusable at infinity for a Nikon F mount.  Once you've got it on a bellows, you're only going to be able to use it in the macro and near macro range.  If I remember correctly, the Horseman VCC system for Nikon requires you to use a lens of at least 60mm.

For a while, I thought about getting an "eBay special" F-mount back in 4x5" and using it with my Wista and 90mm f/6.8 Caltar-II.  But eventually I surrendered and bought an 85mm f/2.8 PC Micro instead.

[Akira]

The focusing at infinity would not be the problem, as Michael uses the combo for his closeup work.

However, the lenses like Schneider 47mmf5.6 Super Angulon would not be suitable for the purpose.  As Michael already realizes, they are designed as super wide angles and not for the closeup work.

I would think the enlarger lenses for MF are way more suitable for the purpose, and Michael has already explored very deeply.

[Michael Erlewine]

The focusing at infinity would not be the problem, as Michael uses the combo for his closeup work.

However, the lenses like Schneider 47mmf5.6 Super Angulon would not be suitable for the purpose.  As Michael already realizes, they are designed as super wide angles and not for the closeup work.

I would think the enlarger lenses for MF are way more suitable for the purpose, and Michael has already explored very deeply.

I am pretty ignorant as far as understanding View-Camera lenses (Copal 0) used on something like the Cambo Actus (small bellows rig) wih the Nikon D810 as a back. I have several in the 120mm view-camera range and find them "boring" to the degree that they are made to use at small apertures, meaning too much of everything is in focus. So, I would like to find some Copal 0 mounted lenses that are faster and sharp wide-open, which seems like an oxymoron. They were not made for that.

Am I understanding all this correctly that I am better off with enlarger barrel lenses than monkeying with these view-camera lenses?

So, my question here (a few comments down) is, given that something like a 47mm lens for a view-camera.... how does that work if I put a 36 Mpx back (D810) on the view camera? What would 47 Mpx translate to a lens mounted on the Nikon D810 with no bellows. As you can see, I am confused with all of this. I'm not sure I am even making any sense.

I like the view-camera lenses because many are very, very sharp, but what I want is very sharp AND very fast, so I can have some bokeh, but that seems to be impossible to find.

[Akira]

Michael, if you would want to try faster 47mm-class lenses, how about looking at lenses for the MF format like Pentax, Mamiya/Leaf and the like?  They won't cover the image circle as large as Super Angulons does, but they should be sharper and are much faster.  Cambo offers mounting plates to use these lenses on ACTUS MINI.

[Michael Erlewine]

Michael, if you would want to try faster 47mm-class lenses, how about looking at lenses for the MF format like Pentax, Mamiya/Leaf and the like?  They are much faster than Copal 0 shutter lenses, and Cambo offers mounting plates to use these lenses on ACTUS MINI.

My experience with (Mamiya) MF lenses is that lenses were not that "good" for my work. I have, I believe, eleven of them and was mostly disappointed compared to lenses for 35mm DSLRs IMO. I guess I am looking for lenses for use with the D810 on the Cambo Actus that are fast and sharp wide-open. The view-camera (Copal) lenses are incredibly sharp, but too much is in focus. They are great for a certain kind of product photo, etc. It's not that I have no lenses at all. I have a bunch of them, like the El Nikkor APO 105 enlarger lens, which is as good as they get, but I was hoping to find these Copal-based view-finder lenses that were something like that. As you can see, I am kind of going in circles, which suggest that I get it a rest. I am slowly learning about using view-cameras, and like them a lot.

[Akira]

Which Mamiya lenses did you try?  I think RZ/RB lenses would not be up to your requirement.  I was referring to the current lineup for Leaf digital MF cameras.  That said, since the resolution of digital backs are not as high as that of 36MP FX format (maybe except for the latest 100MP one!), even they may not satisfy your need.

[Michael Erlewine]

Which Mamiya lenses did you try?  I think RZ/RB lenses would not be up to your requirement.  I was referring to the current lineup for Leaf digital MF cameras.  That said, since the resolution of digital backs are not as high as that of 36MP FX format (maybe except for the latest 100MP one!), even they may not satisfy your need.

Yes, I had the RZ67, which was not satisfying as far as lenses were concerned, except maybe the 140mm macro and one or two others. The whole digital back thing was a beast to use and primitive compared to the the Nikon DSLRs, etc.

I am looking at the Hasselblad X1D, if I can sell enough older lenses to afford it. Not for my close-up work, but for a general experience with larger photosites. If Nikon would get off their butts, what I probably really need is just a 50 Mpx sensor with larger photosites and I would be happy.

[David H. Hartman]

I was about to abandon the post I was writing when I accidentally posted it. Sorry. 

[Akira]

Yes, I had the RZ67, which was not satisfying as far as lenses were concerned, except maybe the 140mm macro and one or two others. The whole digital back thing was a beast to use and primitive compared to the the Nikon DSLRs, etc.

I am looking at the Hasselblad X1D, if I can sell enough older lenses to afford it. Not for my close-up work, but for a general experience with larger photosites. If Nikon would get off their butts, what I probably really need is just a 50 Mpx sensor with larger photosites and I would be happy.

If you still have D3S, you would use it for tiling to simulate the MF camera with larger photosites.  To do stacking and tiling could be virtually impossible, though...

I was about to abandon the post I was writing when I accidentally posted it. Sorry. 

No worries, David!