Author Topic: TC 16A  (Read 3958 times)

John G

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TC 16A
« on: July 10, 2016, 19:36:53 »
Hello
        As a response to a request from Thomas G in my introduce yourself thread. I have thought about the usefulness of a modified TC 16A
        attached to a wide aperture ais lens.
        I am not a individual versed in the science of optics, so this will be a experience based overview. Sharing with others how I have
        incorporated the TC 16A into many of my photography outings.
        Firstly I have owned a TC 16A for approximately two years, with the sole intention of carrying out the modification that is on the
        " Foolography site " I used the TC mainly on a 300mm f2.8 ED IF ais. I then had the 300mm modified to a Dandelion chip and was
        very much enjoying the success of focus trap as shutter release control. The Dandelion chips are fragile and will break after a period
        of time if you exchange lenses regular.
        After losing a Dandelion chip I took the TC 16A modification more seriously and asked a friend who plays with hifi assemblies for
        some support with the task.  We discussed all the tasks required and he began to work with the TC. It was done as a non pressure
        finishing date, under the guise that if a mistake is made I will still have a usable bit of glass whilst trying to resolve any electronic 
        issues that we may have incurred.  The operation was a success taking place over a month, there was a delay due to the tone arm
        wire that was used to attach the removed pin back to the PCB, the tone arm wire used on attempt one made the reassembly of the TC   
        difficult and it was feared an internal damage may happen.
        My friend recalled he had a piece of head phone cable stored and sought it out, this was hair thin and worked perfectly, allowing a
        smooth reassembly. I educated myself on the programming of the TC to the D800E camera and after a couple of trials got the
        scrolling numbers on the top LCD. I have also tried this TC attached to a 200mm f4 ais and 85mm f1.4 ais, there are a few exposure
        irregularities with the 85mm, I believe I set the EV to -1 and shoot about 3-5 increments under exposed on the view finder exposure
        scale. The 200mm f4 surprisingly had AF indoors in dim light. I have been using a modified TC 16A for 9 months now.
        Another trick I also have learned is about overcoming EE error flashing on the top LCD screen. If you look at the TC with the face that
        receives a lens facing you, you will notice a small tab that projects forward at about 2 O Clock on the face. When the TC is attached to 
        a lens this tab stiffens in its rotation operation and will hold a given position. I attach the lens and TC camera, if I get a EE error I very
        gently rotate this tab with a fine probe and "VOILA" f4 appears allowing the camera to function.
        This TC combined to the 300mm f2.8 ais easily tracks, hedgerow birds, birds in flight and running animals, I have no fear of it letting
        me down at a given set of focal ranges, a tiny bit of hand controlled focus ring intervention will correct a jump from a short focal to a
        long focal length.
        With the 85mm f1.4 ais I have happily photographed children at play in a very confined space 6mtr x 10mtr with numerous sharp 
        images, it is best used with a f8 to f11, FOV is very narrow and any distance between the subjects when wide open will leave a out of   
        focus area, the camera reads this lens as a f4. It is also going to have a few framing issues if space is not available.
        All shooting is done by me using back button focus.
        Another quirk I have learned is that the TC also has a effect on the minimum focal length of a lens, my 500mm f4 AIP 
        focused closer with a TC 16A than without it.
        If you would like to see some images that have been taken with the 300mm + TC visit my latest images on flora/fauna Strumpshaw
        Fen, all the images are from this combo.
        In critique, the Long Tailed Tits are the 500mm + TC combo. 
        I very much enjoy the TC 16A attached to my lenses and have a second one awaiting a modification, both have set me back £100 and   
        a breakfast.
        The other lens I regularly use is a 70 - 200mm f4 VR and I do not feel I have captured better images with this lens but if I
        were going into a situation I did not see a repeat opportunity of, I will have it with me.           
       
John Gallagher

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2016, 20:13:58 »
If possible, could you please post some photos of the modification itself? Many members here surely could be interested in such a project.

Erik Lund

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 12:14:21 »
I have done this modification for several people:
http://www.foolography.com/free-stuff/modify-tc-16a/
Take good care of the small springs,,, ;)
Erik Lund

Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 12:36:59 »
Aha. I didn't know were familiar with this mod, Erik. Good to know if a TC-16 should cross my path in the future.

Mongo

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 12:57:39 »
Mongo has two 16A converters. He tried the modification on one of them himself and did a reasonable job.  However, the job is a little tricky due to the size and ability to handle such small components. It lasted for some time but then became less reliable due largely to Mongo's  rushed workmanship . Had Mongo taken the usual care , it would still be working today. So, Mongo now uses it manually.

As a result, Mongo bought an additional mint condition 16A (professionally modified) from Canada for about $245 Australian Dollars. It works brilliantly.

HOWEVER.........

- You have to manually bring the lens close to focus and the converter will then do the rest to bring it to fine focus.
- Once modified for a particular series of cameras that may include several models but not others. It would NOT work on the others. For example, it worked with the D200 but not with the D800 (or vice versa). Really cannot remember and have not used it for some time so, the example given could be wrong but it is generally that type of example albeit with different model cameras. You should check that it will work with the intended camera bodies.

it is probably better to buy a good used 1.7EII converter instead and then carry out the very small modification to remove one of the lugs on the bayonet mount so that it will fit all Nikon bodies and lenses

Erik Lund

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2016, 13:42:53 »
Please do note there are two variants; TC16A this topic - The TC16 is for the F3AF.

I have only tested the TC16A brifely but was surpriced how well and fast the AF is and the image quality is likevice high. I am also impressed that the IQ can be maintained within such a large focus span - on the lens in use;

From Mir
Focus detection range with lens at infinity (OO)
300mm - OO to 35m (114.8 ft)
 200mm - OO to 16m (52.5 ft)
 180mm - OO to 13m (42.7 ft)
 135mm - oo to 7.2m (23.6 ft)
 105mm - oo to 4.4m (14.4 ft)
 100mm - OO to 4m (13.1 ft)
 85mm - OO to 2.9m (9.5 ft)
 80mm - OO to 2.7m (8.9 ft)
 58mm - OO to 1.4m (4.6 ft)
 55mm - OO to 1.3m (4.3 ft)
 50mm - OO to 1.2m (3.9 ft)
 35mm - OO to 0.61m (2 ft)
 28mm - OO to 0.42m (1.4 ft)
 24mm - OO to 0.33m (1.1 ft)
 16mm - OO to 0.21m (0.69 ft)
 8mm - OO to 0.19m (0.62 ft)
 6mm - OO to 0.2m (0.66 ft)


....1.7EII converter instead and then carry out the very small modification to remove one of the lugs on the bayonet mount so that it will fit all Nikon bodies and lenses

...will fit many Nikon bodies and lenses ;)
Erik Lund

Akira

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2016, 14:40:21 »
Interesting thread.  Does this modification method for TC16A apply to AF80/2.8 and 200/3.5 as well?
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

Erik Lund

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2016, 16:49:50 »
Not sure since the TC16, TC16S was same vintage as AF80/2.8 and 200/3.5 and strictly for the F3AF
TC16A was later and aimed at other cameras,,,
Erik Lund

Joost Bollens

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 17:23:13 »
The unmodified TC16A works with some film cameras (like F801) and with the first generation of digital bodies (up to the D2 series?).

For more recent dslr's, you have to do the modification  (switching one pin, not very difficult but you need good eyes, since these springs are really very small).

The modified tc is really fun, but has its limitations. I have used it on a d700 and d600 with the 300 mm f/2.8 AIS, 400 mm f/3.5 AIS and 500 mm f/4 AIS.

Results are good, but there is definitely some vignetting, and the corners are somewhat softer. I tested the 300mm + TC16a combination on my new D500, and as could be expected, the vignetting problems apparently are gone in the DX-world. Needs some further testing, though.

Here an example of the 500mm combined with the tc16a on a D600. Photo as such is  not interesting, but I was surprised that handholding a combination of 800 mm still can give so much details.

John G

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 19:55:32 »
Hello
.       Thank you for sharing your thoughts and enthusiasms for the modified TC 16A
.       In response to Bjorns request I will speak with my friend who will modify my second TC 16A.
.       We are about a 100 miles away from each other. If he feels he can achieve the task in one sitting
.       I will do a step by step photographic tutorial.
.       Erik spoke of doing this modification and he has not offered any negatives on its function.
.       It has been stated that there are some parts that are fragile and the operation is intricate.
.       My friend was aware of these conditions and chose a few safety measures that I shared with him.
.       Safe Practice 1, Do as much of the dismantling and reassembly in a high sided container.
.       This will keep all those tiny parts safely as they are released  during dismantling.
.        Safe Practice 2, Speak with a Jewller who does watch repairs, they can supply a spring
        that will be a very close match to any spring that may be lost .
.       Safe Practice 3, The wire used as a extension from the relocated pin back to the PCB "must " be as fine as
        possible, or reassembly can become awkward, with a risk of compressing and damaging a internal component.
.       My friend exchanged his original choice of wire for a wire from a headphone.
        When this modification is carried out correctly it will allow a AF function on many MF ai/ais lens.
         I am not aware of any TC's that can offer this to MF lenses.
.        The idea of the modification being random in which bodies it will perform on is documented, it seems
.        a successful method to overcome this, is to rotate the lever that is on the face at 2 Ol Clock of the TC that the
.        lens attaches to. Rotate this lever with a probe whilst lens is attached, until F4 shows on the top LCD screen.
.        The www.foolography.com has a long history and support for this modification, it has been regularly
         discussed      from 2009 - 2016.
.        There is a long list to be compiled if you read through the thread history, of the lenses and DSLR bodies this
.         modification has worked with.
.         If I attend a Nikongear event in the future, I will bring a TC along.
John Gallagher

Akira

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 20:09:23 »
Erik and Joost, thanks for the clarification.  I thought TC-16A was for F3AF.  I stand corrected now.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

"Limitation is inspiration." - Akira

the solitaire

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2016, 20:25:07 »
I have an unmodified TC16A sitting here and have been planning to do this conversion for some time now.
Buddy

John G

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2016, 21:15:20 »
Hi Joost
            I would be very greatful if you could produce a image or two, to be viewed using the modified TC attached to your 500mm + D500.
            This is a body + lens combination I intend to work with.   
John Gallagher

Thomas G

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2016, 00:07:41 »
John,
thanks for starting the thread :-) Seems it got some life in it  8)
-/-/-

Joost Bollens

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Re: TC 16A
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2016, 09:34:24 »
If the weather allows, I will try to make some shots this evening with the D500+500mm f/4p+TC16a combination. Whereas I occasionally handhold this combination on a full frame body, I doubt whether that will be a good idea on a DX body.  Depending on the actual shuttertimes, 1200mm could even become somewhat challenging for my tripod. 
I personally think that the AF-capabilities of the TC16a have less value added in this situation: for most of the tripodmounted shots I make, I have time to focus manually (and the D500 is doing wonderful in this regard).
I understand you already have a TC17eII (with the tab removed)? At first sight I would expect this converter to be even better than the TC16a when combined with the tripodmounted 500mm, while giving a comparable magnification. Provided you don’t need the AF-assistance of the TC16A….I will make some shots both with the tc16a and the tc17.
I guess the TC16a+D500 combination could be very interesting when using somewhat shorter lenses: 200mm, 300mm? For the D500 is a formidable action camera, begging to be used for wildlive or sports, situations where the AF-assistance might come handy.
But you should be aware of the fact that the AF-assistance is of a limited nature : I have been doing birds in flight with the D700, 300mm f/2.8, tc16a, and while this works for birds with a relatively predictable and straight trajectory, it is hopeless for birds like swallows who follow an erratic random walk. And there the D500, combined with a recent AF-S tele is doing just marvellous.
If you can PM me your e-mail, I will send you the pictures via “we transfer”. My current raw-converter does not yet recognise the D500, therefore I am shooting both raw and jpeg. Just let me know which format you prefer, if not both.