Author Topic: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses  (Read 4254 times)

Michael Erlewine

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In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« on: February 15, 2016, 15:26:36 »
Lenses, how many do I need? Most of the lenses I have are the result of trying out lenses to see how they work for me.
I do close-up nature photography and for that I like fine lenses that have what is called “micro-contrast,” even though that term may still not have an exact definition. And by fine lenses, I mean well-corrected lenses -- apochromatic. My collection of lenses accumulates because I insist on seeing for myself what others write about them in reviews.

I do this because I feel I have special needs that other photographers may not value. For example: while many photographers argue against paying for lenses that are very sharp wide-open, because they don’t use that razor-sharp depth-of-field that a fast lens has wide-open. That argument does not work with me because often I want to stack focus by painting in focus where I want it. For this, I like to use ultra-fast lenses that are very sharp wide open, so that I can paint focus and also have the best bokeh. That’s why I like these expensive lenses, not just because I want expensive lenses. However, every once in a while I get a flash of realization that any lens will do and that I could take photos with whatever lens I can lay my hands on.

But most of the time I am of the opinion that really great lenses make really great photos and all of that. My multi-year quest for the holy grail of fine lenses was first satisfied when I discovered the Voigtlander 125mm f/1.5 APO-Lanthar, and for years that was my lens of choice, and still is for some work. And I had some runners up, like the Leica 100mm Macro Elmarit-R f/2.8 and the Coastal Optics 60mm f/4, and a few others.

But all of that got blown out the water with the advent of the recent line of Zeiss Otus lenses. Actually, before the Otus series, I was captivated by the Zeiss 135mm f/2 APO-Sonnar, which as far as I can see is really just an early Otus. It is that good. And I didn’t rush to buy the 135mm, because it was not a close-up lens, so it took me quite a while to grasp that I didn’t care what particular focus-length it was, if the lens was a good as a few reviewers said.

And as a sidebar, I don’t credit many reviewers for all kinds of reasons that I will not labor here. I learned about good lenses from no less than our own Bjørn Rørslett, and his reviews have served me well. I used to also value Thom Hogan, but he has kind of gotten out the lens-review mode. The others I value are Lloyd Chambers and Ming Thein. Aside from his reviews, I consider Ming Thein the finest photographer (overall) that I have seen of our generation.

So eventually I got the Zeiss 135mm APO, knowing that I could return it. Well, that never happened. The lens was better than any of the others that I had, IMO, and at the time I was a devotee of the CV-125. Suddenly the Voigtlander 125mm Apo was sitting on the shelf, something I couldn’t have imagined a short time before. And the reason for that, for all its qualities: it was not good enough any longer.

The Zeiss 135mm APO didn’t take extension well, so for my work I was reduced to cropping out the close-up that I was after. And that worked pretty well. When the Zeiss Otus 55mm APO came along, I was already sold on this idea that Zeiss had of making a great APO lens and letting the price fall where it may. So, I was an early purchaser of that lens and with the 55mm Otus I had a lens that not only took extension well, but with which I could do much of the kind of work I like. The 55mm Otus became my workhorse lens, and I still use it all the time.

And the same thing took place when the Otus 85mm came out and again, recently, when the Otus 28mm became available. I got one of the first copies of each, and there is no disappointment. I see there is a tendency in reviews of the Otus 28mm for quite a few reviews to kind of say that this lens is not a “must have,” perhaps not keeper. I very much disagree with that opinion. The Otus 28 is a monster of a lens in quality and performance, perhaps (like many wide-angles)just a little more difficult to focus.

Along the way I began to sell off many of the lenses I have been accumulating but seldom used, in particular some of the Nikon glass like the two 85mm lenses, the 200mm Macro, the 85mm PC lens, and so on. I didn’t need them anymore and was not using them. Unless I wanted a museum of classic lenses, there was no longer any reason to accumulate them. My wife certainly approves of my selling off those unused lenses.

I sold my Zeiss 50mm Macro, and have the Zeiss 100mm macro up on Ebay now. Although sharp enough, they just are not well-corrected enough for my purposes, but I liked the 50mm quite a bit, but its CA is not acceptable anymore IMO. They also were too “contrasty” for my use. I am surprised that many photographers love these lenses and don’t mind the CA. They must be liking the sharpness.

Aside from the earlier Nikon 300mm f/4 (with the shorter near-focus distance) which I will keep, I don’t collect telephotos. I had a Questar Birder (1400mm), but it was too fiddly for my taste, so I sold that too.

I also have a solid collection of what I call “character” lenses, lenses that distinguish themselves by having a certain character or draw, like the Noct Nikkor, the CRT-Nikkor, the El Nikkor 105mm APO, and many others.

Just as many of us have the Nikon trifecta, the 14-24mm, 24-70mm, and the 70-200mm, I still have these lenses, but seldom use them except for family snapshots or musical events (70-200mm). I am considering selling the 14-24mm and the 24-70mm, but I would keep the 70-200mm Nikon.

Aside from some exotic lenses (industrials, etc.), my standard set of lenses “for all seasons” now are the three Oti and the pre-Otus 135mm APO.

As for cameras, I am very happy with the Nikon D810. I have tried and returned many of the various mirrorless cameras, including the Sony A7r, A7s, Nikon 1, and others. IMO, for my work, they are not ready for prime time. As for lenses, I work with a tripod, so am not so concerned with weight and portability, but more with sharpness and speed wide open, and if the lens is highly corrected.

Looking to the future, I would like Zeiss to make an Otus version of an ultra-wide angle lens (FF fisheye) and a good macro, something similar to the Voigtlander 125mm APO, but better corrected. And I would like Nikon to make a 50mp or a 100mp camera with an ISO of 64 and an EVF or an even better LiveView.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

PedroS

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 16:43:58 »
Interesting notes and certainly a different approach.
Have you tried any among the Milvius line?

Almass

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 16:47:40 »
Compulsive Hoarding and Wisdom of Purchase.

We are all guilty one way or the other.

My Wisdom of Purchase is to get additional copies of lenses I like for redundancy purpose. I do not even use the lenses and some are still in the original unopened boxes.....go figure.

I stopped getting Zeiss lenses and completed my Leica R top lenses collection including the Alcan 75 and 180.

It started by trying to avoid carrying the lenses when traveling and hence getting additional copies to keep in each house......Wisdom of Purchase.

You are not alone.


Michael Erlewine

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2016, 16:58:50 »
Interesting notes and certainly a different approach.
Have you tried any among the Milvius line?

My understanding is the most of the Milvus line are just re-worked older Zeiss lenses, which are not as well corrected. For me, I am focusing on what the lens can do wide open, like fast and sharp wide open, not a few stops down.

And Almass: We are in the same ballpark. I have a CV-125 that has never been out of the box, for example. Brand new.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

stenrasmussen

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2016, 17:24:17 »
The Milvus 50 & 85 are new designs.

Michael Erlewine

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2016, 17:35:47 »
The Milvus 50 & 85 are new designs.

Yes, I read that, but I have kind of made my choice to pay for the Otus line of lenses, which are just what I need for the work I do. Those two new lenses are not better than the Otus, so it comes down to a question of weight and money. I don't care about the weight, and the truth is I have a lot of great lenses that I don't use. By selling them I can afford a smaller group of Otus-quality lenses. Seems like a no-brainer for me.

As for the other Milvus lenses, the warmed-up older lenses, they are just what I don't want. Otherwise I would not be selling my Zeiss Makro-planars which are sharp, but not well corrected, and too "contrasty" for me.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Frank Fremerey

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2016, 17:58:41 »
Thank you, Michael, for sharing your insights, appreciated.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/

Roland Vink

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2016, 20:17:28 »
The Zeiss 135mm APO didn’t take extension well ...
Just to clarify because you have mentioned this before. If I understand correctly, it's not that the Zeiss 135mm APO performs badly on extension, it's just that it requires a lot of extension to gain a useful increase in magnification, compared to shorter lenses like the Otis 55/1.4.

I imagine when focused close so the optics are configured for close range, it performs on extension very well.

rosko

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2016, 21:37:17 »
Thank you, Michael, for this interesting reflections/explanations.

I love Zeiss lenses too, firstly for their optical qualities and their perfect manufacturing.

However, I am not so concerned about the optical corrections (I can cope with CA, a good software helps). color rendition and character are more important for my use. In this regard, I found what I wanted with the CV 125mm apo lanthar.

Concerning the sharpness, I know you need very sharp lenses to meet your requirements but for my use, I don't want to get trapped by buying a lens 3 times more expensive to hardly notice more sharpness.

Actually, it seems you have found your holy grail with these Otus lenses.

I would say : if you haven't found your holy grail now, you will never find it... : ;)


Cheers, Francis.
Francis Devrainne

Michael Erlewine

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2016, 22:03:07 »
Just to clarify because you have mentioned this before. If I understand correctly, it's not that the Zeiss 135mm APO performs badly on extension, it's just that it requires a lot of extension to gain a useful increase in magnification, compared to shorter lenses like the Otis 55/1.4.

I imagine when focused close so the optics are configured for close range, it performs on extension very well.

Roland, I bow to your technical knowledge in this. All I am saying is that I ended up not being able to appreciate the use of extension on this lens, not that it cannot be done. I tried it and ended up not using extension on this lens. Instead, I just cropped more.

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Michael Erlewine

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2016, 22:05:16 »

Concerning the sharpness, I know you need very sharp lenses to meet your requirements but for my use, I don't want to get trapped by buying a lens 3 times more expensive to hardly notice more sharpness.

Cheers, Francis.

It is not just sharpness, it is "sharpness" wide-open on a very fast or relatively fast lens, AND the lens being highly corrected as we find in the Otus. I don't find most other Zeiss lenses to my liking, such as the two Makro-Planars, which are sharp, built well, but not corrected enough IMO.
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Erik Lund

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2016, 14:36:09 »
Just to clarify because you have mentioned this before. If I understand correctly, it's not that the Zeiss 135mm APO performs badly on extension, it's just that it requires a lot of extension to gain a useful increase in magnification, compared to shorter lenses like the Otis 55/1.4.

I imagine when focused close so the optics are configured for close range, it performs on extension very well.

Again Pierre Toscani with an most illustrative animation and description of why CRC lens performance isn't optimal when you add an extension ring.

The example with 55mm 2.8 Ais Fig 7 and the comparison when you add PK-13 extension ring on the Ais and the AF 55mm 2.8 is at Fig 8 and 9

http://www.pierretoscani.com/echo_shortpres.html#shortpres05a
Erik Lund

Michael Erlewine

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2016, 14:42:23 »
I don't know all the technical reasons, but i judge all this by adding extension until the results I get are not acceptable IMO. With the Zeiss APO, perhaps the K-1 Ring is useful, but I find it best to use no extension on that lens.
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atpaula

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Re: In Praise of the Zeiss Otus Lenses
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 17:42:09 »
I can't wait to test my Otus 28mm which is coming.

This is rust, by Otus 85mm @ f/1.4.



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