Author Topic: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)  (Read 7703 times)

Vilhelm

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lens info: http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/en/photo-imaging/product-field/photo-lenses/products/dslr-lenses/tiltshift-lenses/

The 90/4.5 Makro-Symmar definitely classifies as what can be called an odd lens, a specialized tool aimed at those who find the Canon and Nikon T/S & PC-E lenses either inadequate for the task at hand (as in not good enough image quality) or annoying given their handling characteristics. The lens has an interchangeable bayonet (replacement costs about 100 EUR + shipping from Schneider) and it is manufactured in Canon EOS, Nikon-F, Sony Alpha and Pentax-K mount. Made on order, I think only B&H Photo Video has them in stock every now and then.

I use the 90/4.5 Makro-Symmar for oevre photos ie. modern art (sculptures, paintings behind glass, medium-sized objects etc.) and for any and all product photos that require tilting the focal plane, as well as architecture (it can be shifted rotating 360°. As opposed to Nikon PC-E lens construction, this lens can be tilted AND shifted independently of axis, rotated with 30° steps. I think it's questionable to call it a "Makro" as it only goes down to 1:4 (min. focusing distance is 0.57m) but it is very useful in product photography that does not require reproduction magnification levels.

It is actually a medium format lens, with DSLR mount so it paints a very big area (about 35% larger) than full frame DSLR tilt/shift lenses. Thanks to this, image quality on a DSLR stays very high even at maximum tilt and/or shift settings. It has 12mm of shift and tilt 8° (360° rotateable) and an Arca-Swiss mount at its optical center point (therefore panoramic and shifting does not introduce parallax shift).

12mm of shift doubles the frame coverage ie the 36mpix D810 can produce 72mpix stitched images from shifted frames. As opposed to the traditionally Nikon choice of X & Y axis tilt/shift, the lens can be turned around its axis for 360° with 30° stops (while it is shifted and/or tilted). It's a fully mechanical lens, aperture control with 1/3 f-stop clicks. The lens construction is in my opionion mechanically ingenious. A total of 9 control rings change the aperture, focus, shift (and shift rotate) as well as tilt (and tilt rotate). Focus throw is as good as it can get, a whopping 330° turn (as opposed to the PC-E Nikkors with a very hasty 160°).

Strongly recommended for those who find their existing choice of tilt/shift lenses inadequate, I can't really find anything bad except the weight (1.1kg) to say about it. Resolving power is better than Makro-Planar 2/100 ZF.2 AND better than Milvus 2/100, the only non-supertele lenses that resolve more detail than this lens are the 85 and 55 Otus and APO-Summicron 2/50 (source: Lensscore)

What does it do? Product photography and architecture, normal or tilted focal plane, shifted or not shifted. For photos taken with this lens you can go to my client's website, about 2/3 of all the oevre photos on this website I have taken with this lens: http://www.jirigeller.com/works.html

For some more images of the lens, and what it does, see these attachments.
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MILLIREHM

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 20:27:52 »
Interesting lens, thank you Vilhelm for posting the link and the pics
Wolfgang Rehm

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 20:37:37 »
Thanks for sharing.
Have looked at them (there's also a 28mm and a 50mm) and had them in hand during one of my stays in London, but didn't decide.

Rather, for my architecture work, I really on the Nikkor PCs and used (I should say tried without great success) a Sinar P system adapted to my DSLR. This proved to be another source of troubles instead of being a solution. So sold the Sinar and just work with the Nikons.

But man these Schneiders are looking at me... again...

Frank Fremerey

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 21:01:49 »
I have the 120mm from this series but not in the TS-mount.

It is the same "optical engine" like the 120TS in Leica S Mount but I got her in Copal 0 on a Sinar plate for my P2.

The performance of this optical formula is mind blowing.
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Vilhelm

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2016, 12:36:51 »
The DLSR series 28mm Schneider-Kreuznach is very very good, the 50mm tilt-shift for some reason is a dud (in some areas even worse than the Nikkor 45/2.8 PC-E Micro). Will post more later, just browsing while waiting for a flight so no archive to substantiate claims with  :D
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2016, 14:06:44 »
Maybe I missed it but what do the MTF charts look like?
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Erik Lund

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 15:00:44 »
They are listed here:

https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=1822

Shoot it at f/8 and your fine says the MTF for the 90mm

Indeed the 50mm is uneven in performance according to the curves...

Don't judge a book by it's cover.
Erik Lund

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2016, 15:19:16 »

Shoot it at f/8 and your fine says the MTF for the 90mm

I like to shoot wide open on a fast and sharp lens. I have been studying the Noct Nikkor, which I know is (or was) a favorite of yours. Unfortunately, apparently that lens has a lot of CA wide open. What other lenses (if any) have the character of the Noct, but might be better corrected?  What the specs say on the Noct look great to me, sharp but with some curvature. The new Noct is not nearly as sharp as the f/1.2. Your thoughts please?
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Erik Lund

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2016, 20:56:51 »
In my opinion the 58mm 1.4 G i sharp enough... I recommend you try it along the Noct-Nikkor!

The only fast similar lens well corrected and fast I know of is the Leica M 50mm f/0.95 not really suitable for Nikon but works on a Sony A7R II

But it belongs in another thread
Erik Lund

pluton

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2016, 21:05:45 »
Aren't the T/S "Macro-Symmars" actually rehoused Mamiya medium-format lenses? 
Keith B., Santa Monica, CA, USA

Vilhelm

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2016, 22:20:21 »
Yes, Schneider-Kreuznach's DSLR lens line is in effect designed to draw medium format, bayonet change costs 90 EUR + shipping at Schneider-Kreuznach. Which is why they wildly outperform DSLR tilt-shifts, they're originally designed for a much larger image circle than kino format T/S lenses.
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Bjørn Rørslett

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2016, 22:36:02 »
Being designed for a larger format usually also means the lens resolves less than those optics optimised for the more demanding smaller format. You can't have it all at once. Or if the designers go all the extra miles, you surely do pay through the nose for that.

JohnBrew

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2016, 14:13:53 »
I rented one of these beasts for a week. Try before you buy.
Image quality was good, mine backfocused which was a pain. Impossible to use with gloves, which I know is a prerequisite for Bjorn, due to the narrow focusing rings. You have to turn the lens over to do stitches, another pain. As we used to say in West Texas "too much sugar for a dime".
Just my opinion.

KarlMera

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2016, 14:30:35 »

Image quality was good, mine backfocused which was a pain.


Did you try it with live view?

JohnBrew

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Re: Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/4.5 Makro-Symmar (Nikon F-mount)
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2016, 21:12:14 »
No, because I used it on a D700 which was the latest Nikon camera at that time.