The Leica 90mms... a mine field

[tommiejeep]

One of the main reasons for buying the Sony a7II was to be able to use many different lenses with adapters.  I tend to use the 75-135 FLs a lot for candids, Documentary, Street and portraits.

I have also started playing with adapted lenses on the EM1.  I've always wanted to try a Leica lens...    There are so many variations in the Leica 90mm group.  I really want something, used, that is small, light and fun to use.   The cheap 90 Summarit looks good on paper.  The 90 Summicron f2 seems better, but heavier.  Then we get into the 90 2.8 teles... confusing  .   I am looking at LTM or M.   I am having fun with the Voigtlander 75 2.5 LTM  but would prefer longer.

No idea when the Batis 85 1.8 will be available, already several delays to my date, and I am getting much happier with MF.

Any experiences, recommendations , things to look for, problems, will be appreciated.
Cheers,
Tom

[Almass]

One of my preferred lenses is the Leica R 90 APO.

[Erik Lund]

I have almost no knowledge about the performance on A7 series... and no 90mm Leica M lenses except the Voigtlander...

The 90mm APO Lanthars are identical for LTM and Ais mount, not really macro lenses, I dislike both, due to very difficult to nail focus due to very short focus throw.

At that focal length I would buy a 105mm 2.5 Nikkor in LTM It's amazing! a Leica M Voigtlander adapter to Sony E with helicoil saves the day and give you a little extra close range... I did shoot it on Bjørns A7 and super nice to use, long throw 
But since you don't care so much what mount is on it you could get 105mm 2.5 as Ai, almost identical lens read about it here:
http://www.nikkor.com/story/0005/
Here the Ai is the one to get, longer focus throw and rounder aperture blades around 2.5 -3.5
It's so good on digital you won't believe it!

The design and feel of the Micro Nikkor Ais 105mm and the Ai is very different, I prefer the Ais in this case by far - but it's rare...

[Bjørn Rørslett]

The 90 mm class is more akin to the more commonly seen 85 mm of which there are many suitable for a Sony through adapters.

I take the opportunity to mention the 85 mm f/1.8 Takumar for Pentax (M42 mount). There is an older f/1.9 version as well (or at least I believe it's older). Pentax had a range of very decently performing lenses for their original Spotmatic cameras and the lenses were ruggedly built too.

Of course I also second Erik's suggestion of a 105 Nikkor. Either the AI 105/2.5, which is easy to get, or the predecessor 105/2.5 "K" as you don't need the AI feature for non-Nikon use.

[tommiejeep]

The Leica 90mm f2 APO ASPH R or M, is outside of my budget for having fun, about $2,300 is the cheapest I've found in UK  .  An older, non-APO is doable as are some of the f2.8's .  A mint - 90 Summarit f2.5 with hood is around $1,100.  A guy in Germany is asking me to make an offer on a Mint 125 2.5 APO Lanthar but his asking price is right up there EUR 2,300.

I have, and use, the 105 2.5 Ai and Ais.  The 85 1.4D shares the Df with the 58 1.4G and the 105's with the DC105 f2D.  I've only tried the 105 Ais, 135 f2.8 Ais and the 28 f2 Ais on the Sony/Novoflex adapter.   I have not shot them enough to see if they match their performance on the Df.  I've tried my recently returned 180 2.8D on the Sony but not very successful yet.  I will watch out for a Macro 105 f4 Ais.

I actually had a Spotmatic years ago and shot it with the Nikkormat for a couple of years in London and then went to the OM1 for a bit and then back to Nikon.  Only had a 50 and 35 for the Spotmatic.  I've almost bought the Nikon 85 f2 Ai (Ais) a couple of times.  A friend is trying to sell me a Jupiter 9. Neither he, nor I, can quite figure out which one it is  .  It does have some real character, but then again, he is a heck of a lot better than I am  .  I'll have to look at the Pentax lenses as well as some Minoltas.  Really trying to find some interesting , fun lenses that I would use on the Sony(and EM1) and not the Nikons.     At some point I  will get around to some really wide lenses.  I may move back to London for a spell and shoot more Metro-Street 
Thanks all, keep any fresh ideas coming
Tom

[Bjørn Rørslett]

There was a Minolta 85/1.4 with a good reputation as well if you search outside the Leica-Nikon domain.

[tommiejeep]

Bjørn, this was first up on eBay UK:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mint-Minolta-AF-85mm-F-1-4-G-D-Limited-Edition-Lens-For-Sony-A99-A900-A7R-A7-/151895923484?hash=item235db3db1c:g:FxYAAOSwo0JWLw4x
I do not think so    Of course there are many around in the $650-750 range but quite a few interesting lens for less.

I'm not really locked into Nikon or Leica.   I may try a relatively cheap Voigt lanthar 90 3.5 LTM (although not Erik's favourite).   I really have no need for another lens . Something interesting and reasonably small , light and fun to MF.  Heck , the 85 1.8
G is pretty darn sharp on the D750 but not tons of personality  .  The 70-200 2.8 vrII works a treat on the D750/D3s , particularly in the middle ranges, for events.
Tom

[Jan Anne]

I can't believe that I'm referring to Ken but here's his take on the different Leica 90mm options for the M system
http://kenrockwell.com/leica/90mm-lenses.htm

Found it helpful in understanding the differences in performance, weight, etc.

[tommiejeep]

J.A., funny , when you Google for 90mm comparisons that is top of the list    .  A couple of guys you have mentioned before think the 90 Summarit is pretty good compared to its pricier siblings .

Bjørn, I had never even heard of the Minolta varisoft Rokkor 85 f2.8.  Was that a gimmick or does it actually work ??  Just out of interest 
Tom

[Bjørn Rørslett]

Well that f/2.8 model wasn't the Rokkor (Minolta) lens I had in mind, but since you ask: yes, this works more or less similar to Nikon's DC feature if I understand correctly.

[JJChan]

Tom
Just my 2c
I've had a bit of a play with some Leica - all late 80s summicrons 35,50 and 90mm.
My friend had also recently got himself 35mm summilux FLE and a 0.95 noctilux with M240 M-P.

His 90mm was chrome, had a tiny built in hood and was made in Canada about 1988. It's a really nicely made lens and had high detail and micro contrast. It was about the same size but a good bit heavier than Cosina Voigtlander Apo lanthar 180mm SL but taking the bigger Nikon adaptor into account, was more compact and better balanced.

These 80s cron Leicas are something else. They do render very beautifully with high micro contrast but less macro contrast than modern Zeiss (which somehow make the Zeiss look a little too hyped). They are all very tiny and play really well with the Sony. I think they are really made for portraiture. I'm sorry I can't post any shots but they are all of my friend and his workplace hence privacy issues and also very snapshot non artistic.

The downside is that these glass are eyewateringly expensive. Too expensive to buy on a whim unlike ancient Pentax M42.

[Akira]

I used the second version (of Ernostar design) of Summicron 90/2.0 on Kodachrome 25 in the 90s.  The image was a combination of sharpness and creamy bokeh.  I also had 90/4.0 Rokkor for Minolta CLE which should be optically (maybe except for the coating) identical to that for Leiz/Minolta CL.  It was sharp and the bokeh was pleasing, so long as I remember.

I also used various 50/2.0 lenses during the film days: Summicrons of different versions, a non-coated Summitar as well as Summar.  And I've found that the internal coatings of Leica lenses of all periods at least up to the 90s are all-too easy to get fogged in the humid climate.  I have seen so many samples that are fogged in Japan.  According to a well experienced Leica repairman in Japan said that it is very tricky to clean the internal coating because is of softer type.  And once fogged, it will not be clear again.  I don't know if the problem is addressed in the current lenses.

I also used an L-mount 105/2.5 Nikkor and a non-coated Elmar 90/4.0 on films.  Both were quite sharp and the bokeh was beautiful thanks to their near perfect round aperture.

That said, I have no idea how they would perform on the digital sensors.

[tommiejeep]

One of my preferred lenses is the Leica R 90 APO.

Do you have a preferred Dealer for used Leica lenses?   I have bought a few things from Clifton Cameras over the years but obviously not Leica.  Red Dot, Aperture , someone else?  The three I named have varying warranty periods and return policies.  A Leica purchase would be 'instead' of the Batis 85 1.8 which is costing me $1,100.
Cheers,
Tom

[tommiejeep]

Akira, many thanks.  What you said about humid conditions and Leica lenses really rings alarm bells  . I've lived in Southern US, South Vietnam, Bangkok, Washington DC, Mombasa, others with high humidity but Goa tops them all.   I have to be super careful of the in and out of A/C with all of my gear.
Thanks for the heads up.

JJ, I am only looking at used gear but that is expensive enough  .  Your 2c is worth more than my 2 Rs these days  .  My wife is in the UK end of Jan - first week of Feb so looking at few options.  At the moment no gear lust for Nikon but who knows what might happen in January  . Interesting that some of the Leica 90's are same size, or smaller, than the Batis 85 and some are less expensive.  Of course I get a 3 year warranty with the Zeiss.  I am really starting to enjoy MF with some of the lenses.

Cheers,
Tom

[Almass]

Do you have a preferred Dealer for used Leica lenses?   I have bought a few things from Clifton Cameras over the years but obviously not Leica.  Red Dot, Aperture , someone else?  The three I named have varying warranty periods and return policies.  A Leica purchase would be 'instead' of the Batis 85 1.8 which is costing me $1,100.
Cheers,
Tom

No I do not have a preferred dealer.

Leica dealers in UK is a lottery situation as you have to constantly visit them and check their stock.

My recommendation is ebay Germany and the HongKong ebay seller Breguetcamera