Workflow - LR - consider alternatives ?

[RobOK]

I've long been bought into LR for library and Raw conversion, but lately feels slow and I feel locked in with Adobe.

Considering adding Photo Mechanic on front end ( per other thread). In my brief trial, I love the speed but have to learn the keyboard short cuts.

But I also hear about people using C1 and other raw converters - so my question is, when people use more stand alone raw converters, then what do you use for library functions?

I would love to hear people's work flow at a high level - not detailed steps, but just what products used for:
- import/rename
- culling / rating
- metadata
- later search

To a lesser extent - publishing to web, books, social media.

I don't use Photoshop.

Right now I am Lightroom for all of those functions but am examining my workflow. My main camera is Nikon Df but also use Sony NEX-7 and in the past Nikon D300.

Thanks!
Rob.

[chris dees]

I'm interested in this as well.
Extra problem I have is my LR-catalog with over 125.000 entries.

For import/rename you can use Nikon Transfer. It's free and it has more or less the same possibilities as LR import

For culling and rating I use FastRawViewer. Very fast and it uses the RAW image (not the embedded JPG).

From that point I import it in LR and I have not found an alternative

[RobOK]

I really like the options for culling in LR. X for delete and P for pick (select). Then with one click you can delete all X's. I have not been able to replicate this in PM and as far as I can tell you can't change the key mapping. The speed is impressive.

[RobOK]

I really like the options for culling in LR. X for delete and P for pick (select). Then with one click you can delete all X's. I have not been able to replicate this in PM and as far as I can tell you can't change the key mapping. The speed is impressive.

I had missed a setting in "Accessibility" that lets you Rate with single key (1-5) and I missed that the T key toggles a tagged indicator on and off. So I am using "1" as a first cut to keep and T to tag for deletion.  The keyboard commands seem pretty well hidden, but here is a link to their help wiki:
http://wiki.camerabits.com/en/index.php?title=Keyboard_Shortcuts#Preview_Window_Shortcuts_.28OS_X.29

[Jakov Minić]

I use ViewNX2 for transferring, renaming, deleting, sometimes even converting.
If it needs treatment, I open the RAW file in PhotoNinja, save to TIFF, open in Photoshop and that's about it
I hope PhotoNinja advance in the future so I don't need Photoshop, but I doubt that that will happen any time soon...

[Andrea B.]

I really like the options for culling in LR. X for delete and P for pick (select). Then with one click you can delete all X's. I have not been able to replicate this in PM and as far as I can tell you can't change the key mapping.

I'm not entirely sure I understand your LR method, but in photo mechanic you can move through a contact sheet row by row via an arrow key. As you navigate, any highlighted thumbnail can be deleted during that navigation by just hitting the delete key.

But if you want to wait and delete your culls as a group, then just arrow through the thumbnails and hit T for "tag" on any thumbnail you want to remove. When done, hit Command-T followed by delete.

You can also navigate by arrow and make tags on the larger previews for a better view.

Right-hand for arrow key. Left-hand for T "tag".
Cmd-T then Delete.

***

The keyboard commands are easily available from the top dropdown menus if you forget them.

[RobOK]

I really like the options for culling in LR. X for delete and P for pick (select). Then with one click you can delete all X's. I have not been able to replicate this in PM and as far as I can tell you can't change the key mapping.

I'm not entirely sure I understand your LR method, but in photo mechanic you can move through a contact sheet row by row via an arrow key. As you navigate, any highlighted thumbnail can be deleted during that navigation by just hitting the delete key.

But if you want to wait and delete your culls as a group, then just arrow through the thumbnails and hit T for "tag" on any thumbnail you want to remove. When done, hit Command-T followed by delete.

You can also navigate by arrow and make tags on the larger previews for a better view.

Right-hand for arrow key. Left-hand for T "tag".
Cmd-T then Delete.

***

The keyboard commands are easily available from the top dropdown menus if you forget them.

Thanks Andrea, I did discover much of what you posted...  The "T" command is no where to be found in the menus, it is Command and the + sign for Tag.  The ratings show Option 1-5 (not just the numbers 1-5).  So I don't agree that the commands are easily available from the dropdown -- most of the commands from the Help file are NOT in the menus.

But I do appreciate your reply and welcome any other PM tips!!  I am getting the hang of it.

[Sash]

If you do not use PS, then CaptureOne Pro, in my opinion is the natural progression from LR.
It has a slightly different interface compared to LR, but it is highly customiseable.
It does importing,  cataloging, metadating, tagging, rating and bunch processing very well. And on top of that it is a more advanced editor. I used LR and C1 for a month in parallel, and got frustrated with C1 interface first. But as soon as I got used to it, I could find less and less reasons to use LR for the sheer quality of C1 processing. I first bought it to process FUJI files, but then realised it does Nikon and Ricoh RAW conversion better as well. LR is probably better with social media, but C1 is more aimed at pros processing large quantities of files.

[Anthony]

I use ViewNX2 for transferring, renaming, deleting, sometimes even converting.
If it needs treatment, I open the RAW file in PhotoNinja, save to TIFF, open in Photoshop and that's about it
I hope PhotoNinja advance in the future so I don't need Photoshop, but I doubt that that will happen any time soon...

Jacob, if you set PN up as a filter in PS, you can move an image from PN to PS without creating a tiff.  This saves a lot of time, and space. 

You have to change settings in both programs to set this up. http://www.picturecode.com/tutorials/photoshop.php

[chris dees]

If you do not use PS, then CaptureOne Pro, in my opinion is the natural progression from LR.
It has a slightly different interface compared to LR, but it is highly customiseable.
It does importing,  cataloging, metadating, tagging, rating and bunch processing very well. And on top of that it is a more advanced editor. I used LR and C1 for a month in parallel, and got frustrated with C1 interface first. But as soon as I got used to it, I could find less and less reasons to use LR for the sheer quality of C1 processing. I first bought it to process FUJI files, but then realised it does Nikon and Ricoh RAW conversion better as well. LR is probably better with social media, but C1 is more aimed at pros processing large quantities of files.

Is there a way to import your LR catalog into C1 (or another RAW converters)?

[Anthony]

Jacob, if you set PN up as a filter in PS, you can move an image from PN to PS without creating a tiff.  This saves a lot of time, and space. 

You have to change settings in both programs to set this up. http://www.picturecode.com/tutorials/photoshop.php

Jacov, sorry for getting your name wrong, the spellchecker betrayed me.

[afx]

... but C1 is more aimed at pros processing large quantities of files.

Its silly insistence on specific output places make it actually less usable for that...
Their whole recipe mechanism looks like it is from IT stone age. As much as I despise LR, their export, especially when coupled with the tree exporter plugin is still better in that area, but it is still a far cry from what Biible(RIP) and now AfterShot have been doing for a decade...
Both C1 and LR are too stupid to assign dedicated hotkeys for specific outputs though.

Is there a way to import your LR catalog into C1 (or another RAW converters)?

Yes, C1 can import a LR catalog (I think that was added a year ago or so).

@RobOK:
Which platform are you on?

For
- import/rename
- culling / rating
- metadata
PhotoMechanic is King of the Hill.

But searching is Mac only.
On a Mac, PhotoMechanic can us Spotlight for image searching, but not so on Windows.

C1 has a built in DB, but it is a toy DB just like LR (which seems to be sufficient for most causal users).

Depending on the DB power you need, you might want to have a look at iMatch. This is an extremely powerful image manager, good enough to make it the core of an image agency, but it is Windows only.

cheers
afx

[Jakov Minić]

Jacov, sorry for getting your name wrong, the spellchecker betrayed me.

My name is Jakov
Thanks for the TIPP!

[armando_m]

I'll like to be able to cull faster than with LR

PM is great, amazingly fast, but I'm not currently willing to pay for it

Fast raw is ok, need to learn the keyboard shortcuts

[HCS]

I cannot offer faster culling. But where Andreas is offering iMatch win only, i offer photo supreme (PSU). While PSU is both win and mac, it also comes with a server version that uses PostgreSQL. As you may know, that is a grown up database.

PSU itself is not the fastest in the world, but is very stable (for me at least). I run the postgres server on the same machine as is my workstation. You are free to choose any configuration you like, probably depending on how much of a DB admin you are.

PSU is good enough for importing, it offers a host of naming/renaming options and file placement options. Culling with selects, or star ratings, or colour flags. Sending to external raw converters (i use C1, PN and LightZone), pixel editors (e.g. Pixelmator, Affinity Photo), or other sorts (email, HDR, stacking, etc.). It is also pretty strong in metadata, even though i don't use much of that. I do use the catalog keyword hierarchy for my organization, but don't really use image metadata.

It even does (some) export, but i never use that, i export from C1.

In my opinion, C1's catalog is not ready for large libraries. While some can use it, it lacks too many necessary features to make it compete successfully. Hopefully Phase One improves in that area, the more competition, the better (for us).

@Andreas: could you explain a bit more about "Its silly insistence on specific output places" regarding C1? I don't understand that.