Author Topic: Z9 Failure  (Read 1080 times)

averity

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2023, 20:38:01 »
repair not covered under warranty

Spare parts   € 2065.04
1329Z-A0P9A6 SHANDING UNIT
1359G-A0S54K IMAGING BRACKET UNIT

+ standard service charge
+ vat

almost 3k

MEPER

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2023, 20:48:52 »
Why is it more than just the "shutter unit"?

averity

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2023, 21:01:54 »
Why is it more than just the "shutter unit"?

yes, the report says they need to change the CCD as well

MEPER

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2023, 21:34:49 »
Ok, that probably explains the high cost......
Do you have a personal Insurance that could cover part of the cost?
 

Bernard Delley

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2023, 18:01:06 »
I do not think think that the Z9 protective shutter may be made of plastic. My guess is that it is similar to a normal focal plane shutter, however with a design focus more toward robustness than for highest shutter speeds of 1/8000 sec. So the shutter blades cannot be very much thicker. The dark color and texture really makes me think of the similarity. A protective shutter could be white or mirrored for better resistance against accidental hole burning by a fast lens pointing to the sun unnoticedly.
I learned the hard way about the sensitivity of shutter blades. Pointing a D7200 with a AF 135mm f/2 DC at f/2.8 briefly into the sun in LV mode for a test shot did damage to the shutter, but not to the sensor. The short moment of obscuring the sensor before the the picture exposure was enough to burn through the thin metal curtain. A more detailed report is at    https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65673774   

averity

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2023, 23:09:04 »
@Bernard Delley a very interesting article, I would never dream of opening an expensive camera,,, I am very worried about this happening again, I am extremly tempted to just cut my losses and forget about repairing the Z9

Bernard Delley

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2023, 10:34:33 »
I would not do DIY on a Z9 now. I also guess that there is paucity of replacement parts for the protective shutter as of now. These are gathered from broken cameras in Asia for resale. 
I sure would do 3 tests to evaluate, if there is damage to the sensor.
Test 1 is black frame: lens cap on, manual exposure 1/5 s ISO 6400, the background noise should be reasonably uniform and show no evidence of the burn. Maybe needs boost in PP to near reasonable gray,  to reasonably see something. Settings could be varied. 1/5s exposure was the longest with most previous Nikon models, where no "hot pixel suppression" algorithm was applied to the raw data.
Test 2 defocused uniformly illuminated image, maybe sky, say f/4. To check if pixel responses show no burn damage.
Test 3 defocused uniformly illuminated image, maybe sky, f/22 or more closed if possible. To check if burn has deposited debris on top of the sensor stack. (if yes, can it be cleaned?)
The result of test 1-3 could be used as argument at Nikon for not changing the sensor.
If you are on a trip, you still have a functioning camera as is. Evidence of damage could be minimized in PP for each image.
It would be not acceptable for me to work with a damaged camera in the longer run. I would bite the bullet for the  appropriate repair cost or other measures, like sell as damaged.
Prevention can be done by having a lens cap while the camera is not in use.

Bernard Delley

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2023, 10:51:24 »
I happen to be reviewing my household insurance continuation. Curiously, they try to expand their business by offering a choosable section of all-risks type for electronic stuff. I have to double check if it really is what I seem to understand.  It seems inexpensive. I always felt , I need to take responsibility for self inflicted mishaps and have to have enough dough left for an  appropriate fix. On more serious travel, it means having  backup camera and lens(es) with me to start with.

averity

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2023, 11:34:17 »
I happen to be reviewing my household insurance continuation. Curiously, they try to expand their business by offering a choosable section of all-risks type for electronic stuff. I have to double check if it really is what I seem to understand.  It seems inexpensive. I always felt , I need to take responsibility for self inflicted mishaps and have to have enough dough left for an  appropriate fix. On more serious travel, it means having  backup camera and lens(es) with me to start with.

I agree with what you say, it’s no one’s fault but mine, the problem I have is I don’t know what I did to cause it, I certainly didn’t knowingly point it at the sun, I am wondering how long it takes to make such damage in the hot Spanish sun.

Fons Baerken

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2023, 13:16:31 »
Calvin, how unfortunate thats quite a bit of bad luck! May hope you will find the proper solution!

Bernard Delley

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2023, 15:48:54 »
It takes a fraction of a second pointing accidentally into the sun as my experience with the 135mm at f/2.8 on the D7200 shows. If the aperture is near open, no cap on the lens, it might have happened putting the camera back to the bag.
I hope Nikon becomes aware of the problem, which is likely to happen again with somebody. A white or mirrored protector might stand almost 100 times more exposure before melt/evaporation. I hope to see such on the next model.

Birna Rørslett

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2023, 16:45:32 »
The shield tiles seem to be easily interchangeable. Thus Nikon might provide an easy "fix" by supplying white tiles in the future? Meanwhile it appears prudent to focus any lens away from infinity when the camera is put in the bag, and a lens cap is an additional safety measure (until it, inevitably, get lost).

It is worth noting that the shield is *not* a shutter curtain and its only task is to prevent ingress of dirt and dust onto the sensor itself.

Chris Betson

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2023, 09:59:48 »
On the basis that the shutter would be changed in any "official" repair - I would take a scapel or other thin steel blade and gently insert the tip between the top two shutters to one side and gently work it towards the burnt area with a twisting motion to separate the shutters.
Once the shutters are separate, clean up any proud plastic and test the operation of the camera - if it works OK then I would send it in to Nikon for the recall - they might just possibly fix the shutter too!

Birna Rørslett

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2023, 11:09:44 »
I've rearranged these shield tiles a number of times when I was experimenting with my adapter for X-ray lenses :( The lens got stuck on the shield and either blocked camera operation or made the tiles become loose or disarranged. Sometimes just 1 of the tiles was in place. A fine-pointed tweezer and some patience fixed the problem. The Z9, fortunately, is very forgiving of my sins.

Regarding terminology, I think we should not apply the term 'shutter' (although it is correct if one sees the device as a kind of Venetian blind) since it is easy to confuse the shield with a true shutter [curtain]. The Z9 has no [mechanical] shutter and the shield is, as stated before, just protection against ingress of dust and dirt onto the sensor.


averity

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Re: Z9 Failure
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2023, 12:22:26 »
got my copy of the Z9 back yesterday, lucky for me the sensor was ok and didn't need replacement, I attach some photos and the invoice in case of interest to anyone