Author Topic: new pancake Z lenses  (Read 668 times)

richardHaw

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new pancake Z lenses
« on: June 02, 2021, 10:18:41 »

Erik Lund

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2021, 12:48:08 »
Ouch, cheep pancakes - No interest  :o :o :o
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richardHaw

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2021, 13:00:00 »
this is very sad, many people were anticipating them :o :o :o

Didier Klein

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2021, 14:54:04 »
this is very sad, many people were anticipating them :o :o :o

Oh yes, and many people hope Nikon won't make only large and heavy Z lenses...Why should we buy lighter and more compact cameras to put larger and heavier lenses on them ?

There is a market for more modern compact lenses, Cosina-Voigtländer showed the way with Ultron 2/40 or compact 3,5/20 and 2,8/28 lenses...Canon seems to understand this better than Nikon !


David H. Hartman

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2021, 21:50:01 »
I can't read the Japanese characters. Does this lens come with Real Maple Syrup?

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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2021, 22:05:17 »
Oh yes, and many people hope Nikon won't make only large and heavy Z lenses...Why should we buy lighter and more compact cameras to put larger and heavier lenses on them ?

I agree that there is merit in maintaining good balance between lens and camera size and weight distribution so that it is comfortable to handle. But there are also other merits to mirrorless cameras which drive people to purchase large lenses.

Quote
There is a market for more modern compact lenses, Cosina-Voigtländer showed the way with Ultron 2/40 or compact 3,5/20 and 2,8/28 lenses...Canon seems to understand this better than Nikon !

I absolutely agree that there is a market, but I'm not convinced that Nikon doesn't understand this. The f/1.8 series and that it was put out in the early phase of the launch of the Z system suggests that Nikon understand this very well. Although they are not small they're quite lightweight and high quality. The collapsing 14-30, 24-50 etc. also illustrate this philosophy of compactness and light weight in accordance with the size and weight of the camera body, as does the new 50/2.8 macro.

Plastic mount doesn't mean the lens won't perform well.

Nasos Kosmas

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2021, 22:23:42 »

Plastic mount doesn't mean the lens won't perform well.
My plastic 16-50 is an excellent performer

Akira

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2021, 02:13:56 »
I don't think that the plastic material is all that bad.  A plastic mount will break easily when it hit something hard, which eventually help protect the much more expensive camera body.

Also, the plastic barrel should avoid condensation in the cold situations much more effectively than the metal barrel.
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Erik Lund

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2021, 08:51:45 »
I'm not saying there is not room or good use for these small Nikon Z lenses.
I'm saying that choosing plastic for the mount is a very clear indicator for me of the overall material selection and design choices that are set to a certain lower quality/price point than the S-line of lenses.
I have seen plenty of the internal of lenses of all price points and I really don't like the design elements chosen.Nikon could have chosen a level higher, between the Pancake-line and the S-line - Not for me, but I'm sure they make super fine images and many people will love them for the portability and light weight! High IQ require some heft to the glass and that flows into the rest of the design,,,
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richardHaw

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2021, 09:12:49 »
well, this just shows which target market nikon is aiming for :o :o :o
i am pretty sure a plastic mount is cheaper but by how much? if its just $30 id gladly pay that extra $30 ::)

Erik Lund

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2021, 10:35:59 »
well, this just shows which target market nikon is aiming for :o :o :o
i am pretty sure a plastic mount is cheaper but by how much? if its just $30 id gladly pay that extra $30 ::)

Ditto  8)
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2021, 11:32:50 »
well, this just shows which target market nikon is aiming for :o :o :o
i am pretty sure a plastic mount is cheaper but by how much? if its just $30 id gladly pay that extra $30 ::)

But a metal mount would not make the rest of the build or optics any different.

I have seen plenty of Nikon lenses that are poorly constructed (i.e. scarily wobbly barrel in AF D zooms of 1990s, look at the first 24-120 or even the 28-105) but have metal mounts. Newer releases in the consumer category have become less wobbly over time, in fact the 16-50 DX Z feels really nice in terms of mechanical feel compared to kit lenses of old in that same price class.  Even primes such as 50/1.4 AF D had somewhat wobbly barrels and even to such extent that my copy (purchased new) would "jump" visibly when autofocusing in vertical orientation, and sound a bit like something is wrong and it was made worse if a filter was used. But there was nothing wrong with the lens as such, it was made that way. The 80-400 AF-S has a metal mount and its autofocus would stutter a lot and the lens would vibrate easily due to shutter shake or wind. Poorly made but with metal mount.

As for making something in between the compact primes and the S-line; my interpretation of the situation is that the manufacturer is trying to make the lenses distinct enough to expand the size of the overall market for Z lenses and satisfy a larger customer base. If they are too close, the less expensive one might take the majority of the more expensive lens's sales. While it may be appealing for some of us to have a lens that is a perfect compromise between size and quality, some customers really want as light as possible and some want the highest quality possible. Those latter two have marketing appeal (i.e. the best lens in a category or the smallest and lightest), the perfect compromise might not sound so amazing (even if it is really good and practical). It might not be possible for a manufacturer without market leadership position to supply to three levels of moderately fast aperture primes at each focal length (does that translate also to 3 levels of zooms as well? They kind of have that already if we count DX). A lot of people are asking why Nikon are focused on making numerous lenses in a narrow range of focal lengths and leaving out other ranges. 

I do want well-made lenses for my own use but I'm more concerned about collapsing / telescoping designs than the plastic mount in the compact primes. Of course, if the lenses turn out poorly built then that's not a good thing, but I'd give them the benefit of doubt and see what they are able to make and how the lenses will perform.

Akira

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2021, 14:45:18 »
Cheaper lenses are designed to be made cheaply from all aspects, not just replacing the metal mounts with the plastic ones.  Cheaper glass materials, simpler construction and fewer parts to make them easier, etc. are all combined to reduce the total cost.

I'm not try to start a futile metal vs. plastic argument.  A compact and lightweight lens can be a better tool according to the purpose.
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Jack Dahlgren

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2021, 17:42:24 »
Cheaper lenses are designed to be made cheaply from all aspects, not just replacing the metal mounts with the plastic ones.  Cheaper glass materials, simpler construction and fewer parts to make them easier, etc. are all combined to reduce the total cost.

I'm not try to start a futile metal vs. plastic argument.  A compact and lightweight lens can be a better tool according to the purpose.

I love bits of well machined metal. It has such a lovely feel. However, plastics can also be great in the right application. My boat has a plastic rigger which is lighter, stronger and more corrosion resistant than aluminum. I'm aware how futile it can be to argue about materials with traditionalists, but just want to point out that plastic can be the best material for a given use. Light, inexpensive lenses seem to be one of those cases.

Didier Klein

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Re: new pancake Z lenses
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2021, 19:08:55 »
I agree that there is merit in maintaining good balance between lens and camera size and weight distribution so that it is comfortable to handle. But there are also other merits to mirrorless cameras which drive people to purchase large lenses.
I absolutely agree that there is a market, but I'm not convinced that Nikon doesn't understand this. The f/1.8 series and that it was put out in the early phase of the launch of the Z system suggests that Nikon understand this very well. Although they are not small they're quite lightweight and high quality. The collapsing 14-30, 24-50 etc. also illustrate this philosophy of compactness and light weight in accordance with the size and weight of the camera body, as does the new 50/2.8 macro.
Plastic mount doesn't mean the lens won't perform well.

I agree with your explanations Ikka, but what you call lightweight lenses in Z series (1,8/50 = 415g ; 1,8/35 =370g; 1,8/85 =470g... not looking the length of these lenses, between 8 and 10cm) has nothing to do with 1,8/50 AFS-G (170g and 52,5mm length) or with the compact 1,8/50 Ais (145g and 27,5mm length); I understand also that new Z-S lenses are better performers but for myself, I would wish some shorter, lighter, more discrete (street photography) but also well built lenses...