NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Airy on April 15, 2017, 07:41:44

Title: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on April 15, 2017, 07:41:44
... buy another used Df
... buy another new Df
... buy the successor to the Df
... resell about everything, get a Leica (digital) and a Summicron, and ascetically restrict myself to that unique angle of view and to that ridiculously long minimum focussing distance.

Ok, let's hope it won't happen that soon. I do not have any visibility on the Df "line", assuming there is a "line". With growing age, I'll need better focussing aids for sure, even though "statistical shooting" (three shots to ensure a sharp one) greatly helps.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Fons Baerken on April 15, 2017, 07:53:21
My most used camera, the Df, and at twice the price of the D7500 a single SD slot in common :)
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on April 15, 2017, 07:58:23
My most used camera, the Df, and at twice the price of the D7500 a single SD slot in common :)

... and an F mount !
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on April 15, 2017, 08:42:41
I have already crashed one Df beyond even Erik's attempts of repair. Just bought another specimen of it. Probably get a spare one on top of that later. Or the successor if it arrives.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: BW on April 15, 2017, 09:23:02
Mine is holding together so far and keep on giving me pictures every day. I wouldnt be suprised if it does that for a couple of more years. I will never outperform my Df, Im just not that good as a photographer. It is all I need from a camera. If there would never be another Df, I would make due with whatever low megapixel/high Iso camera they offer.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on April 15, 2017, 09:26:19
Same here. However I'd seriously consider Sony mirrorless here, since they would handle my many MF lenses via a mechanical adapter. Too bad for the OVF pleasure, but at least I could further make sensible use of the legacy Nikkors. m43 makes my old Canon FDs sing, so why not...
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Jakov Minić on April 15, 2017, 11:03:49
My Df didn't die but I bought a D750 and I have to admit that the Df is being neglected ever since.
Børge is right, we rarely outperform today's cameras...
Next time I buy camera it will be making coffee  :)
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on April 15, 2017, 11:29:58
I briefly tried the Sony A7 for my legacy 'S' lenses and gave up. Horrible contraption designed by people not knowing how photographers operate. The EVF was awful and contrary to claims wouldn't allow me to focus the Noct or 55/1.2 Nikkors with any degree of certainty. Actually I do much better with those lenses on the Df.

The distance from theory to practice can be very long.

For coffee, a dedicated coffee maker is to be preferred.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on April 15, 2017, 11:35:37
I confess not having tried Sony EVFs so far. Your experience reduces my choices by one count then.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: David H. Hartman on April 15, 2017, 12:46:50
When will Nikon get off its ass and put a cell phone in a dSLR? The phone could be operated with voice commands with a Bluetooth headset. The cell phone wouldn't need any external controls on the camera. Maybe some features could be accessed with the touch screen. Dick Tracy has his wrist TV. Why can't I have a phone dSLR?

Dave Hartman
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on April 15, 2017, 13:04:07
the question was rather related to after-Df, rather than after-DSLR in general
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Akira on April 15, 2017, 13:35:48
I've used Olympus, Panasonic and Sony mirrorless cameras, and I can focus manually far better on them (EVF or LCD) than on any DSLRs I have used.  The bigger problems of EVF is, however, the strain on my eyes.

Currently my only solution is an optical finder with the focus aid...
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on April 15, 2017, 14:14:31
With the Noct especially, my only focus aid is Df + DK-17M. Focus confirmation point is useless (the neutral zone is just too wide). Most effective improvement would be eye surgery, to get rid of that goddam astigmatism on my right eye. Changing the focus screen would then become a secondary improvement, if at all needed.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on April 15, 2017, 14:48:08
I am waiting for the announced Df2, and see what it will be like (promising front wheel as some preliminary photos indicate), then decide wheter a Df2 or another Df (a black one then) is the replacement
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Akira on April 15, 2017, 22:10:13
With the Noct especially, my only focus aid is Df + DK-17M. Focus confirmation point is useless (the neutral zone is just too wide). Most effective improvement would be eye surgery, to get rid of that goddam astigmatism on my right eye. Changing the focus screen would then become a secondary improvement, if at all needed.

The magnifier imposes another problem to me: the viewfinder image suffers from the vignetting.  I have used all of my D7000, D610 and the current D750 with the rubber eyepieces removed to get my eye as close to the ocular as possible.

The last (D)SLR with which I can focus comfortably was FM2 with E3 screen.  It was better than F3.  I figured that the mirror that let some portion of light through it to feed AF sensor or the metering sensor darken the finder image more considerably than I had imagined.  All DSLRs have such mirrors.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on April 15, 2017, 22:18:08
I got used to the "vignetting " that was, by the way, more noticeable with the D700 than with the Df. It is like Leicaist having the lens obscuring the bottom right. I'd rather have it than not being able to focus manually.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: David H. Hartman on April 15, 2017, 22:32:10
The magnifier imposes another problem to me: the viewfinder image suffers from the vignetting.  I have used all of my D7000, D610 and the current D750 with the rubber eyepieces removed to get my eye as close to the ocular as possible.

The last (D)SLR with which I can focus comfortably was FM2 with E3 screen.  It was better than F3.  I figured that the mirror that let some portion of light through it to feed AF sensor or the metering sensor darken the finder image more considerably than I had imagined.  All DSLRs have such mirrors.

The Nikon FM2/n has a 0.86x finder with a 50mm lens focus to infinity (or something like that). The Nikon F3HP (DE-3) has a 0.75x finder while the F3 (DE-2) has a 0.80x if memory serves me. The eyepoint on the F3 (DE-2) is high enough that I can comfortably see the entire finder with my glasses on. The Nikon F3 offers me the best viewfinder experience in an SLR. The Nikon F3HP/F3 can use old style non-Red Dot focus screens that are the same optical design as the Nikon F and F2. The non-Red Dot screens are useful for super speed lenses.

I used a Nikon DK-17 (I'll have to check that model number) 1.2x magnifier on my D2H and it was fine but I can't see enough of the data at the bottom of my D800. I tried the 1.2x magnifier on my D300s and can't use it either.

Face structure plays a role in how much eye point on needs. This explains why some can use a finder comfortably with glasses and others not.

Dave Hartman

I'm going to have to check the percent magnification on the F3HP and F3. I originally put down 0.70x and 0.75x but I think that was wrong. I seem to remember the F100 has having a 0.70x finder and I didn't enjoy manual focusing on an E/B screen with the F100. The F5 was the same as the F3HP for finder magnification. The F5 was about the same as an F3HP with Red-Dot screen for manual focusing so it wasn't good for lenses faster than f/2.8~f/2.5.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: bjornthun on April 15, 2017, 22:53:29
So, the FM2 was 0.86x magnification, pretty close to the 0.9x of the Olympus OM-1. That explains why I liked the FM2 as well.

In addition to facial structure and eyepoint, subtleties of the glass prescription, curvature and thickness of the glass could determine, if a viewfinder works for an individual or not.

I once had glasses for use with contact lenses and another pair with another prescription for use without contact lenses. Suffice to say that they didn't work equally with the same viewfinder. So, the prescription matters as well.

Luckily, EVFs works well for me.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Lorne on April 15, 2017, 22:59:50
When my Df's shutter failed (at 28K) at year's end I considered what I'd replace it with should the fault be terminal. If I couldn't find a good 2nd hand/refurbished Df, I suppose a D750 would be my FX choice and D500 a DX alternative. Shockingly, currency fluctuations mean that a new Df lists at 30% more than in 2013.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Akira on April 16, 2017, 00:29:39
Dave, you are right about the magnification of both F3 finders (x0.75 and x0.8 ).  That's why I preferred non-HP finder even though I wear glasses.  No problem with the viewing the info display in the finder.

The viewfinder magnifications of Olympus and Pentax SLRs are larger, but I couldn't see the info when I view the entire image frame, which made me stay away from any of their cameras, although I was very much attracted to OM-2 spot/program, -3 and -4 as well as Pentax MX.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: David H. Hartman on April 16, 2017, 07:31:26
The FM3a which was based on the FE2 had a finder magnification of 0.83. I never even touched​ one of those but I suspect I would have preferred it to the slightly higher finder magnification of the FM2n and the FE2. I was OK with the 0.86 finders a tiny bit higher eye point would have helped.

Dave
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on April 16, 2017, 22:12:08
The FM3a which was based on the FE2 ....

It should have been called FE3 (or FH- for the hybrid shutter), getting an M was misleading
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on April 16, 2017, 23:19:28
Back to topic, if you don't mind.
The alternatives I brought were serious.

One slight change: should I switch to Leica, then I'd need a noctilux. I am getting used to the no to, that's why...
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Akira on April 16, 2017, 23:38:06
Noctilux has been a dream lens since I had seen an image on film taken with the previous f1.0 non-aspherical version.  Now that M10 allows live view, the vignetting should of little problem.  You can use Sony Alpha 7 series if you like.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: JJChan on April 17, 2017, 00:45:03
Back to topic, if you don't mind.
The alternatives I brought were serious.

One slight change: should I switch to Leica, then I'd need a noctilux. I am getting used to the no to, that's why...

My friend Airy - you got a Noct? We need proof! Photos please (from Df to keep in thread!)

JJ
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on April 17, 2017, 04:31:39
One pic in another thread so far (see "guess who" under portraits). Others coming up.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Hugh_3170 on April 17, 2017, 05:18:24
It probably should have been called an FE-3m rather than the FM-3a, as it was IMHO more of an update to the FE-2 than the FM-2n, although it did offer the best of both of these two fine predecssors in the one body.

I still have mine and it is worth hunting down for those photographers still into film, even though it is not as plentiful as its two forebears. 

It is a shame that the FM-3a was released so late, as was the late release of lenses at that time such as the Ai-P series, in which only three examples hit the markets in those pre-AF days.  I understand that at one stage all of the Ai-S series of lenses were planned to be upgraded with a metering chip and were then to be released as Ai-P lenses. 

Oddly enough the FM-3a did not use the metering chip in the 45mm f/2.8 Ai-P pancake lens that was released alongside it.


It should have been called FE3 (or FH- for the hybrid shutter), getting an M was misleading
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: David H. Hartman on April 17, 2017, 07:24:03
Who here is going to be buried with their Nikon Df when *it* dies?

Dave Hartman
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: tommiejeep on April 17, 2017, 07:51:39
Talk about 'prying it from your cold, dead hands'  ;)
I am regretting helping a young man sell his grandfather's, still boxed, unused Panda last year , $1,300  >:(
Just hope Nikon comes up with something I want.
Tom
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 17, 2017, 16:42:15
Ok, let's hope it won't happen that soon. I do not have any visibility on the Df "line", assuming there is a "line". With growing age, I'll need better focussing aids for sure, even though "statistical shooting" (three shots to ensure a sharp one) greatly helps.

Yes. I also do bracketing to ensure at least one usable RAW when my ageing brain did not again forget to reset from "M" to "A" leaving an inside shooting. I even started to use the rear screen on weaker days!

The next Df will be delivered with a custom rollator in black and yellow with a tripod attached and a motif bell...
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on April 17, 2017, 17:54:04
If there is no DF2 ever, I'll buy another DF ! Or I may get my FM2n out and set up again my old darkroom chemistry !!!
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 17, 2017, 18:27:59
If there is no DF2 ever, I'll buy another DF ! Or I may get my FM2n out and set up again my old darkroom chemistry !!!

I bought and FM2n and have found no way yet to adjust it to my eye-sight condition... (IMO there is not way)

I have been to a master optician and he took a lot of time to test and analyse the problem. He cannot solve it because of the FM2n construction.

I will go for an F6 instead which has an optical system designed relative and adjustable to the eye like all modern cameras
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: bjornthun on April 17, 2017, 23:57:43
Frank F., can you still purchase diopters for the FM2? Or did your optician find that you could not replace the glass in a generic diopter with the one you require?
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: the solitaire on May 23, 2017, 21:26:53
I bought and FM2n and have found no way yet to adjust it to my eye-sight condition... (IMO there is not way)

I have been to a master optician and he took a lot of time to test and analyse the problem. He cannot solve it because of the FM2n construction.

I will go for an F6 instead which has an optical system designed relative and adjustable to the eye like all modern cameras

Even though the FM2n is quite  abit smaller and lighter then the F6, both are magnificent cameras. It's a shame you can't get the FM2 to work for you.

Today was the day. Back when I bought my D3 I thought: "When my D3 dies, I'll either have it repaired, or buy another D3"

And to be honest, the D3 would have done everything I ever wanted a digital camera to do. But I lost one of two shutter release buttons fairly early on (and never got around to have that repaired), the rubber grips are worn down so much that hey hardly stick to the camera body. I guess it's equal parts luck, spittle and hope that keep them on there. The LCD display on the back (the big colorful one) has gone hazy. And even though I kept my sights on the used D4 market until today, this morning a thought struck me, and I might be leaving the Nikon camp. Events later this week will tell me more.  So even though I was so convinced even just a few months ago, I might move to Fuji sooner rather then later, while still holding on to my Nikkor lenses though.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on May 25, 2017, 10:01:48
Just got a used, but very fine looking Df, so now I have to see. Also got a 105 2.5 of the frist optical design. Will see what it can compared to my AiS version.
So I will stay in the Nikon camp for now ;)
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on July 04, 2018, 14:52:31
I see an alternative (not: a full replacement; not: an equivalent) looming :
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/03/first-set-of-rumored-specifications-for-the-nikon-mirrorless-cameras.aspx/

Only the F-mount adapter is not mentioned. We'll see if Nikon maintains its tradition of backward compatibility.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Frank Fremerey on July 04, 2018, 16:01:24
interesting, Airy.

Drive by wire focus or direct focus?
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: pluton on July 04, 2018, 17:23:21
interesting, Airy.

Drive by wire focus or direct focus?
If it is drive by wire, then I will declare the War Against The Machines officially lost.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on July 04, 2018, 17:38:57
I’m still depending on my dF for it’s moderate size, low light performance and ability to use any lens. If the mirrorless camera does all this (and more?) then that is where I go when the dF gives up. Seems like the right camera for the type of photography I do.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: gryphon1911 on July 05, 2018, 00:26:29
I will buy another Df if I can, but if not and the next gen Nikon mirrorless goes where I think it will, it could very well be that.  I honestly care more about being able to continue using my manual focus lenses into the future than I do the camera bodies. 

So, even if Nikon were to fold up shop tomorrow, I'd still adapt my legacy glass onto m43/Fuji bodies.  I might sound crazy to you, but seems legit to me.    Lol.  :)
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: JohnBrew on July 05, 2018, 04:40:39
Just ordered my first. After yet another European trip with the D810 I swore it would be the last. After toying with the idea of another Leica M (geez, I've only had 7!), I decided to go with the lightest FF Nikon - the Df and & in addition a 50 1.8 will replace my Zeiss 50 Marko And the combo will save about 600 hundred grams of ugly fat. The new Nikon diet :)
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: JohnBrew on July 05, 2018, 04:46:23
I see an alternative (not: a full replacement; not: an equivalent) looming :
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/03/first-set-of-rumored-specifications-for-the-nikon-mirrorless-cameras.aspx/

Only the F-mount adapter is not mentioned. We'll see if Nikon maintains its tradition of backward compatibility.

I wanted to wait for the mirrorless but I understand that Nikon is having all sorts of hell with the F adapter. And then there's the actual delivery time to just a normal customer...
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Frank Fremerey on July 05, 2018, 06:04:04
If it is drive by wire, then I will declare the War Against The Machines officially lost.


we could employ a robot to do the shooting
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on July 05, 2018, 08:36:54
Just ordered my first. After yet another European trip with the D810 I swore it would be the last. After toying with the idea of another Leica M (geez, I've only had 7!), I decided to go with the lightest FF Nikon - the Df and & in addition a 50 1.8 will replace my Zeiss 50 Marko And the combo will save about 600 hundred grams of ugly fat. The new Nikon diet :)

Welcome to join the club. However it is difficult to part with the Zeiss 50/2. Currently I use the (even heavier, uglier, bulkier) Milvus version on Df. The 50/1.8G is nice though.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on July 05, 2018, 08:41:15
I wanted to wait for the mirrorless but I understand that Nikon is having all sorts of hell with the F adapter. And then there's the actual delivery time to just a normal customer...

A purely mechanical adapter would be OK for MF lenses. This is how I happily used Canon FD lenses on Oly m43, adapters coming from a third party. The Canon FD adapter is basically an extension ring, while the Nikon FD adapter in addition has a ring that would actuate the aperture lever (no steps of course). But MF lens users are not the main target, I guess.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on July 05, 2018, 08:49:33
Just ordered my first. After yet another European trip with the D810 I swore it would be the last. After toying with the idea of another Leica M (geez, I've only had 7!), I decided to go with the lightest FF Nikon - the Df and & in addition a 50 1.8 will replace my Zeiss 50 Marko And the combo will save about 600 hundred grams of ugly fat. The new Nikon diet :)

I hope you'll be happy with it  :) My usual MF lenses are the 50mm f/1.8 "long nose", the 28mm f/2.8 AI-S, the 85mm f/2 AI and the very nice 105mm f/2.5 AI-S.
While I do have and use AF lenses for some paid work, I find that I return to the MF lenses as soon as I can. Mostly for the small size but also for a "quality" of shooting and for the resulting images... ;)
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: JohnBrew on July 05, 2018, 13:28:37
I don't believe I could ever part with the 105 2.5 Ai Probably 60% of my shots in Portugal were taken with it. I don't find much difference between the Otus 55 and the 105 as far as sharpness goes. (Seriously). Maybe I just lucked out with my copy.
No, I'm not getting rid of the 50 Makro, just putting it on the shelf for other uses.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on July 05, 2018, 14:27:09
Well, I bought the Zeiss 135/2 and the 105/2.5 AIS the same day, and I came similar conclusions... then again, the Zeiss has a bigger (ans stellar) full aperture, is nearly APO, has somewhat better bokeh, and does close-ups.

But when in Portugal last year, the 105/2.5 (AI in the latter case) did 40 % of the shots, the 50/2 AI 42%, and the remaining 18% were done with the Tamron 45/1.8 (mostly night shots)...
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: JJChan on July 05, 2018, 15:02:55
Just ordered my first. After yet another European trip with the D810 I swore it would be the last. After toying with the idea of another Leica M (geez, I've only had 7!), I decided to go with the lightest FF Nikon - the Df and & in addition a 50 1.8 will replace my Zeiss 50 Marko And the combo will save about 600 hundred grams of ugly fat. The new Nikon diet :)

John
I have travelled with my Df and AFS 50mm 1.8 on many occasions - again mainly for the size. The 50 1.8 is always surprising and there is a rendition, although not the hyper microcontrast of the Makro, that is pleasing especially at night.
The other lens which I may suggest is a good light travel companion is the sadly much maligned AFS 28mm 1.8 which is small and much lighter than the Zeiss 28mm. Microcontrast is again not as intense but has an always surprising aesthetic quality.

The other joy of using the Df is that it is a really nice camera to use - the shutter action is addictive. The sensor gives beautiful colours and is very forgiving with exposure errors. If only the autofocus was good. It is adequate becoming weak especially for run and gun night street photography.

28mm 1.8
JJ

Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: pete on July 06, 2018, 20:05:09
I upgraded my D800e to the D850 and it is just awesome.  I use it with my modern telephoto lenses.  While the D850 is basically the DSLR of my dreams, I still mostly carry and use my Df and vintage glass for general shooting.  I like the small size, control layout and high ISO capability of the Df.  My kit/collection of vintage lenses has grown since I got the Df and many are still Non-AI so the Df is the only choice from Nikon.  I expect to use the Df for a long time and if it fails, I will replace it with another Df or hopefully Nikon has come out with the Df2 by then.  Reading this thread makes me want to get a spare Df just in case...
Pete
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: JohnBrew on July 07, 2018, 05:00:44
Hi JJ, thanks for your response. When I travel I especially like to roam the streets at night grabbing a shot now and then. Then when I return home I turn them into bw's. I feel the Df with the 50 1.8 will be great for this. In the past I had to use the large and expensive 1.4 Leica's with relatively low ISO's. Now I feel I have a better chance of returning with more "keepers".
When I ordered the Df the ",special edition" lens was on back-order,but yesterday I was alerted it was back in stock again and I'm supposed to have mine Tuesday. Looking forward to putting it through it's paces.
I must say first impressions of the Df are very positive. I really had no idea how cool this camera is for an old fart like me!
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Frank Fremerey on July 07, 2018, 07:23:03
Welcome to join the club. However it is difficult to part with the Zeiss 50/2. Currently I use the (even heavier, uglier, bulkier) Milvus version on Df. The 50/1.8G is nice though.

the 50g is nice, very nice for the price. Since I bought the 58g the 50g does not see much use though. The 58g is a tad on the bulky side but light weight 382g compared to 182 for the 50g and the aperture is 1.4 not 1.8. From my experience if I needed to chose a single lens for the Df I would go for the 58g or the 1.8/85g
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Frank Fremerey on July 07, 2018, 07:39:23
JJChan: great sensitive shots in #48!
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: JohnBrew on July 07, 2018, 17:47:01
the 50g is nice, very nice for the price. Since I bought the 58g the 50g does not see much use though. The 58g is a tad on the bulky side but light weight 382g compared to 182 for the 50g and the aperture is 1.4 not 1.8. From my experience if I needed to chose a single lens for the Df I would go for the 58g or the 1.8/85g
I would have gone for the 58 1.4, but I have a whole slew of 58mm filters for the 50 1.8.
And I certainly had a mental battle over choosing the 1.2...but same conclusion - no filters in the arsenal for that lens, either.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Akira on July 08, 2018, 02:55:12
I would have gone for the 58 1.4, but I have a whole slew of 58mm filters for the 50 1.8.
And I certainly had a mental battle over choosing the 1.2...but same conclusion - no filters in the arsenal for that lens, either.

John, this is a little unexpected comment from you as image quality connoisseur.  Which filter(s) do you use most often?  I would understand when you use a protection filter in the dusty or splashy conditions.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: tommiejeep on July 08, 2018, 05:32:07
Interestingly the idea of selling my Df has recently popped into my mind, never thought that would happen.   I have a few lenses that I use on the Df only, mostly MF.  The Df, 58 1.4G is my favourite along with 105 f2.5 Ais/Ai ,28  f2 Ai and 75-150 f3.5 Ais E..  I am happy using various adapted lenses with MF on the Sony bodies.  The real kicker is I love that Df sensor and the fact I can use CNX2.  A couple of years back I almost bought another Df.

I am happy with the D500 , with long lenses, for Sport and birds but I am shooting less of both.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: JohnBrew on July 10, 2018, 00:28:10
John, this is a little unexpected comment from you as image quality connoisseur.  Which filter(s) do you use most often?  I would understand when you use a protection filter in the dusty or splashy conditions.
Well, there 's the CP and I have ND's 3, 6, and 10 stop. Maybe a bit of overkill, but these were all used on a Rodenstock 70 HR-W on MF. I like choices :) I can even use the shutter release from MF on the Df! Kinda cool.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Akira on July 10, 2018, 03:19:10
Well, there 's the CP and I have ND's 3, 6, and 10 stop. Maybe a bit of overkill, but these were all used on a Rodenstock 70 HR-W on MF. I like choices :)
I can even use the shutter release from MF on the Df! Kinda cool.

Thank you for the explanation.  That makes sense.  I think the cable release would offer much more comfort and far less frustration than the wifi/bluetooth control, especially that of Nikon!.   :o :o :o
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 07, 2018, 12:19:23
When my Df dies, I will... 1.st consider buying another one (this time a black version) _ and/or consider buying a Z7. For this decisionmaking the latter is also compact and lightweight but the Df has better support for non CPU lenses.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on September 07, 2018, 15:44:19
Nearly the same conclusion here. Another Df, or a Z6 (rather than 7). I am not afraid of stopped down metering. I never chipped any lens, reward is relatively small for my taste. Cleaning, lubrication and infinite point  calibration are much more important.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 07, 2018, 20:31:24
I give the Z7 priority because there will rarely be a camera with more resolution soon, but probably a Z8 or Z9 with more speed capability will top the Z6 in the near future. But that  should be subject of further discussion in another thread. In the meantime it is clear that we wont see a Df2.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Kenneth Rich on September 08, 2018, 01:06:39
MILLIREHM, your statement, "It is clear. . . . Df." suggests you mean NEVER, and 007 taught me to say "NEVER SAY NEVER!" It's not the perfect  camera, but for my needs, it's a long way ahead of what comes in second place. For me, a revised Df would be the same old Df with a few things omitted, not added.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Birna Rørslett on September 08, 2018, 01:37:40
I'd like a Df which was a tad more robust. Otherwise nothing is amiss really. Thus when this Df dies (it's my second unit as the first one  disintegrated completely in a mishap), I'll get another of the same kind.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: ianwatson on September 08, 2018, 06:13:33
Perhaps it is a function of our early influences. My F2 was fun and a delight to handle. However, I found myself reaching for my F100 in preference. My wish is for a D850 with 24 megapixels.

There is no harm in dreaming  8)
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 08, 2018, 14:59:45
MILLIREHM, your statement, "It is clear. . . . Df." suggests you mean NEVER, and 007 taught me to say "NEVER SAY NEVER!" It's not the perfect  camera, but for my needs, it's a long way ahead of what comes in second place. For me, a revised Df would be the same old Df with a few things omitted, not added.

You are right in "Never say never"
So what i meant was that it is clear to me, that it wont fly in the upcoming near future. Why I think so?

1.
https://nikonrumors.com/2017/09/15/new-interview-with-tetsuro-goto-from-nikon-full-frame-is-the-trend-if-nikon-will-go-mirrorless-it-must-be-full-frame.aspx/

Tetsuro Goto was  saying

"On successor of Df in Nikon 100 Year Anniversary: the company position is that it needs Df sales volume increase to justify the investment of developing Df successor. Although Df reviews are very good buy overall sales volume is not. If we don’t buy the Df now, it’s hard to expect a Df successor. If you like Df, please buy it now. Personally I have been thinking about Df successor, not like the Df now but more retro style. Design drawings and the overall product design are ready."

so the sales were not justifying an immediate follow-up even then.

Now Nikon is focussing its energy on the Z-series launch. D5, Df and Z7 are produced in Sendai, actually production runs for the Z7 only with the other two halted.
Nikons developing and production capabilities are limited and does not allow infinite parallel releases at the same time.

The Z-hype has breaked out or at least Nikon tries to foster it because they want to sell a new system. There is no D5S out there (which usually had to be expected for this year) and we dont know when a D6 will come. Some even dont see it for sure that there will be a D5 successor on the F-mount flagship slot. Probably Nikon is planning it but who knows what the market does,will Z be a flop or a landslide or something in between.

Finally I conclude that the chances for refreshing the niche product Df weren't too high but have decreased. I'd prefer to be proven wrong.

 

Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Kenneth Rich on September 08, 2018, 17:35:21
" it is clear to me, that it wont fly in the upcoming near future."  Yes, I would NEVER say you are wrong in that one! And WHEN it comes, (NEVER say NEVER) pray it is as simple , as reliable, as robust as the F2 series.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 08, 2018, 23:58:20
It cant be as simple as an F2, it is a digital body. On the other hand the F2 is way more complicated in its mechanics ;-)
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Viv on September 09, 2018, 10:39:01
The Df has tempted me intermittently for years.
Is continued resistance futile?
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Hugh_3170 on September 09, 2018, 12:09:05
You know that it is!  ;D

...............................................
...............................................
Is continued resistance futile?
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on September 09, 2018, 12:23:02
A matter of taste, for sure - since 2014, the Df has become my daily gear. As good as it may be, my D800 is my backup camera...
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Jacques Pochoy on September 09, 2018, 12:47:10
After some income tax surprise, The Z7 will have to wait for a while. But my faithful and workhorse Df is getting seriously worn out (mostly cosmetic) and when I inquired recently for a photographer friend (still on film) it seems not so easy to get a "new" Df in Paris (he wanted a brand new one).
I'm a bit afraid of the Df's fate, hoping some are still in stock somewhere  ???
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: golunvolo on September 09, 2018, 13:39:59
I saw two days ago a brand new df (black) for sale on a respectable store in Granada. Full price of course at some 2800 €, so there is still hope for your friend
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Birna Rørslett on September 09, 2018, 14:13:12
---
I'm a bit afraid of the Df's fate, hoping some are still in stock somewhere  ???

My Nikon dealer still has brand new Df cameras listed.

Apparently the Df owners cling to their cameras, as few Df bodies enter the second-hand market.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: golunvolo on September 09, 2018, 14:53:30
They do. Price for second-hand are stuck at around 1500€ for a long time now if you happend to find one here
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Akshay on September 09, 2018, 16:40:09
A large electronics and home appliances retailer had  DFs on sale in Singapore recently for as low as USD 1450. I m pretty certain most were sold out. Maybe they were getting rid of old inventory.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 09, 2018, 21:50:55
Limited offers on the second hand market
Buyers have to find where it is on stock. Currently there are no Df production runs as it is said that Sendai is working full capacity for producing 20000 Z7 a month, and they will have to produce the Z6 later in this lear as well.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Akira on September 09, 2018, 23:01:29
Apparently, Df is more popular in Europe than in Japan?  There is enough stock of Df (black or silvver, kit with the special 50/1.8G or body only) here in Japan.   The body is sold for around 200,000 JPY and the kit, for around 230,000 JPY.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Tiktok67 on September 10, 2018, 00:45:39
I’m a recent Df convert, and didn’t really consider that model for quite awhile due to some of the negative reviews.  I happened upon a gently used one at the local Nikon dealer (for a great price) and once I handled it I bought it.

I started out 35 years ago with MF Nikons, so the Df and I clicked instantly. Also brought  all of my great MF Nikkors out of storage and love using them again!
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Birna Rørslett on September 10, 2018, 00:50:29
The Df story shows that one should experience a camera to make up one's own opinions and not trust negative reviews too much.

For me, and likely many other users, the Df has brought back enjoyment of photography.  Plus I now can put my many CPU-modified F-mount lenses to good use.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Kenneth Rich on September 10, 2018, 02:31:33
Lots of talk, worthy talk about "when my Df dies" but almost nobody seems to consider simply getting it repaired.  Many years ago, when i was a lot younger, maybe more foolish, and had more money, I bought a Panasonic LC-1.  It eventually burned out something important- mother board or sensor, don't remember what, but when i took it in for repairs, the manager of the photography dept, was aghast I wanted it repaired, and said it would cost an arm and three legs.  I insisted, and had the work done.  I loved/still love that camera, and saw nothing like it on  the market until the Df came along. More accurately, until I learned that the Df had come along, been around  for quite some time.  I bought the Df because it was everything the LC-1 was and bags more. For me, when the Df dies, I will strive to find a repair house that can pull it apart and replace what has gone west.  Only then, if it cannot be fixed, will I replace it with another Df.  Yes, maybe I should buy another now and put it away. 
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 10, 2018, 02:42:42
I'm on my second Df now. Will there be a third? Maybe. Depends on how the Z6/Z7 cameras already ordered stack up in daily use. I expect the Z7 to effortlessly replace or augment what the D810 now accomplishes for stacking and other specialised purposes. As these cameras are run off the mains in the studio, battery consumption is moot, and I have no intention of using them in the field. The latter application is reserved for the Z6. However, the Z6, has to be seriously attractive in practice to tempt me away from a Df.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: richardHaw on September 10, 2018, 04:41:08
itching to buy a silver Df to pair with "Blackie" (my black Df) :o :o :o
selling for 202,000 JPY now and I may get it cheaper.

last time I talked to mr Goto he said that the Df2 project was scrapped but recent developments point to a Df2 in the coming years ::)

1: the statement pasted above.
2: Goto-sensei said the same thing to me several months ago.
3: shops aggressively pushing Df sales. such as buy the Df now while it lasts and explicitly saying that people arent selling theirs.
4: a large price drop.

Now, heres what I want to see:

1: I would like one without a built-in motor but have a smaller outer radius for the throat so I can use my VERY old Nikkors from the time the F debuted.

2: I hope some of the suggestions I sent to mr Goto will be implemented such as a meter readout on the top like the Nikkormats that I still love to use. I gave him a simple schematic that's easy to implement via firmware.

3: smaller and of course cheaper! dont mind if it still uses the same sensor or the 24MP one.

4: interchangeable prisms are a no-go since i was told that its "mendoksai" or troublesome to implement and adjusting it for every camera is tedious. this was the experience with the F5 he said if I remember it correctly.

5: interchangeable screens! (K, coarse center matte, P).

6: NO grip! for DIY purposes.

7: ML-L3 support.

8: a flip screen like the D5300 so I can rotate the back and hide the screen.

this is my wish-list ::)

now, I would like to see a true P mode like the one on my FA but thats probably asking too much and it will make it expensive
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: richardHaw on September 10, 2018, 04:47:13
here's a cool idea. lets make a list of what we want and i will personally send it and see what happens :o :o :o
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: ianwatson on September 10, 2018, 05:15:26
Give me a screen suitable for manual focus. I do not care for any split prisms nor the like. Just a decent screen. Interchangeable screens are a great idea.

A more accurate electronic rangefinder would be nice, if possible.

A better autofocus module, please.

I could live without a motor for AF/AF-D lenses.

No grip would be fine.

Keep the resolution down. 24 Mp at the most. 

No built-in flash!

No video. If you want video then buy a video camera.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: richardHaw on September 10, 2018, 05:24:46
No video. If you want video then buy a video camera.

or the Z cameras :o :o :o
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 10, 2018, 19:05:32
Lots of talk, worthy talk about "when my Df dies" but almost nobody seems to consider simply getting it repaired.   

I understood "when it dies" different from getting a malfunction or some damages that can be repaired. If  a camera dies means is unrepairable to me
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 10, 2018, 19:09:16
BTW:the things i'd like to have for a Df2

First: A front wheel with better ergonomics. This is making my fingers hurt (especially when the camera has no grip - i dont need one but a better wheel)

Second: A kit lens with an aperture ring

Third: better readout from non-CPU-lenses (maximum aperture), P and S- mode with AI-S lenses (Not that I use that too often, but to lately correct the deficits the F4 had against the FA in this aspect.

... (to be continued)
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on September 10, 2018, 20:45:05
I understood "when it dies" different from getting a malfunction or some damages that can be repaired. If  a camera dies means is unrepairable to me
... I already got it repaired once ... (camera-side aperture lever no longer functioning). We'll see how long supplies and support will last.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on September 10, 2018, 20:56:46
BTW:the things i'd like to have for a Df2

First: A front wheel with better ergonomics. This is making my fingers hurt (especially when the camera has no grip - i dont need one but a better wheel)

Second: A kit lens with an aperture ring

Third: better readout from non-CPU-lenses (maximum aperture), P and S- mode with AI-S lenses (Not that I use that too often, but to lately correct the deficits the F4 had against the FA in this aspect.

... (to be continued)

First: agreed... and I'd immediately program it to exposure compensation (see "third").

Second: no (personal thought). I got enough legacy lenses. Unless they'd propose a remake of the Noct with a moulded front element, thus cutting the costs big time, and with nanocoating.

Third: I only use A and M... Third bis: when I dial in the FL and minimum aperture, I'd like to see them reflected in the EXIF data. Currently I'm obliged to input them in LR metadata.

Fourth: an exposure compensation (top left wheel) without locking. Mine has the tendency to "stick", and from day A to day B I need to press the unlock with one finger and rotate the wheel with two more fingers, over the whole range, just to get rid of the sticking. Very annoying.

Fifth: an eyepiece mount with a longer thread. The DK-17M is difficult to screw properly and would fall down every now and then.

Sixth: an interchangeable ground glass. I had that on Canon T90, why not here? narrower tolerances?
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Birna Rørslett on September 10, 2018, 22:30:46
There is no problem swapping the groundglass of the Df with another. I currently use a K3. Very nice behaviour with the medium fast lenses yet still allows pin-point focusing with my Nocts.

If the non-CPU lens menu is used, the actual lens data are all recorded in the EXIF. Ne need to re-enter. At least that is what my Df allows, but I rarely use the option as most of my manual lenses have their own CPU. An additional bonus is of course there is no need to use the front wheel, which I freely admit is made to fit Japanese [lady] fingers. Instead I set the aperture directly on the lens in the manner used in the old ages of film. Much more ergonomic and easier on the hands.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Airy on September 10, 2018, 23:00:03
As far as I can see it, AI or non-AI lenses are systematically identified as 0mm f/0.0. The actual settings are indeed available, at least in the case of AI lenses, under the FL and aperture infos, not however lens type. This is a pity, since the lens type is entered or approximated manually (since there is no FL = 90mm in the proposed list, I pick 86 as an approximation, etc.).

Also, I'd like to use the front wheel for aperture compensation (without lock), but it is too sharp and stiff anyway.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: basker on September 10, 2018, 23:37:28
...If the non-CPU lens menu is used, the actual lens data are all recorded in the EXIF...

I think my FL entry shows up in the exiftool output as "Focal Length : 50.0 mm"
and the max aperture entry may be in "Effective Max Aperture  : 2.0"

I still have not found any indicator for the AI/non-AI setting. Suggestions please?
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Birna Rørslett on September 10, 2018, 23:38:14
Use the rear wheel for minor +- adjustments. Works smoothly.

The EXIF data values are present in the case of non-CPU lenses, but some programs seem unable to extract the relevant data. One can hardly blame Nikon for that. As I wrote my own EXIF data module I eschew the issue any way.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on September 10, 2018, 23:38:38
As far as I can see it, AI or non-AI lenses are systematically identified as 0mm f/0.0. The actual settings are indeed available, at least in the case of AI lenses, under the FL and aperture infos, not however lens type. This is a pity, since the lens type is entered or approximated manually (since there is no FL = 90mm in the proposed list, I pick 86 as an approximation, etc.).

Also, I'd like to use the front wheel for aperture compensation (without lock), but it is too sharp and stiff anyway.

If I use the non-cpu lens selection it identifies whatever focal length I have set. I've not seen the behavior you are seeing.
I'm with Birna on using the aperture ring on the lens itself. Maybe it is just habit, but the dial does not give the same positive feeling.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 15, 2018, 11:35:07
P.S. For a Df2 I'd like to have it a (CF-express prepared) XQD card slot instead the SD.
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 15, 2018, 11:37:41
Maybe it is just habit, but the dial does not give the same positive feeling.

I see it more than a habit. it allows better distribution of tasks between the left and right hand (maybe long superteles as an exception) and it is easier to accidentially change the aperture with the dial than with the aperture ring (the front wheel of the Df is a nuissance but is less prone to this nasty habit)
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: Kenneth Rich on September 18, 2018, 04:47:57
Can the back,(main?) command wheel totally replace the  sub-command ( front) wheel for everything, if I only use manual focus  AI/AIS Nikkor lenses?  I have an  old Nikkor 35mm f2.8 PC lens I very rarely use, and I recollect that the instruction manual for the Df mentioned to use this  command wheel to sync the aperture on the old pre-set lens to the camera aperture, by turning/adjusting camera aperture when the exposure meters were on. Couldn't the main command wheel also do it?  What actual purpose does the sub-command wheel have, if I only use AI/ AIS lenses? My  Df2 would dispense with this front command wheel!
Title: Re: When my Df dies, I will...
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 18, 2018, 19:03:15

Third: I only use A and M... Third bis: when I dial in the FL and minimum aperture, I'd like to see them reflected in the EXIF data. Currently I'm obliged to input them in LR metadata.

Practically I only use A and M as well. But If  a camera is dedicated to old manual lenses like the Df is i want the things to work if it is technically possible (and it has proven to be) - or skip P and S modes completely.

BTW: if the FM2 could be upgraded from  X synch speed  1/200 to 1/250 this should be possible for a Df(2) as well, then it is one full stop.