NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Jan Anne on January 05, 2016, 20:45:14
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Official announcement: http://www.nikon.com/news/2016/0106_dslr_02.htm (http://www.nikon.com/news/2016/0106_dslr_02.htm)
Product page: http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d500/
Nikon's flagship DX-format digital SLR camera offering the supreme performance of the D5 in a compact, lightweight body
TOKYO - Nikon Corporation is pleased to announce the release of the D500, a DX-format digital SLR camera that packs the incredible performance of the D5, Nikon's flagship FX-format model, into an agile body.
The D500 incorporates the same powerful 153-point AF system as the D5, ensuring precise subject acquisition even during high-speed continuous shooting at approx. 10 fps. It supports 4K UHD movies, meeting the demands of multimedia professionals, while the new EXPEED 5 image-processing engine enables it to deliver high-quality images and movies and realizes a wide sensitivity range from ISO 100 to 51200, expandable to Hi 5 (ISO 1640000 equivalent).
The D500 combines the agility of the DX system with superior usability. It employs a touch-screen, tilting monitor, and features SnapBridge support, which enhances the value of your images via constant wireless connection with a smart device. The camera is compatible with the newly released MB-D17 Multi-Power Battery Pack (optional), which can be used with various types of battery.
D500 Primary features
Powerful 153-point AF achieves superior subject acquisition performance across a wide range of situations
The D500's Multi-CAM 20K autofocus sensor module offers a dense configuration of 153 focus points (99 cross sensors) that covers an extremely wide portion of the image area, meaning that even fast-moving subjects can be acquired precisely. AF capability is extended down to -4 EV* with the central point and -3 EV* with all other points, making AF usable even in extremely low light or when shooting low-contrast subjects. A newly employed AF engine and 180K-pixel RGB sensor also contribute to achieving exceptional AF performance in a variety of scenes.
*ISO 100, 20°C/68°F.
High-speed continuous shooting at approx. 10 fps for up to 200 shots (14-bit lossless compressed RAW)
The D500 delivers high-speed continuous shooting at approx. 10 fps*1 for up to 200 shots in JPEG and in 14-bit lossless compressed RAW, without any drop in shooting speed. Even moving subjects can be tracked accurately across a wide field of view at this rapid rate, taking advantage of the camera's stable viewfinder image and a widest-ever diagonal viewing angle*2 of approx. 30.8°.
*1Approximate frame rates for a fully charged EN-EL15 Rechargeable Li-ion Battery, using continuous-servo AF, a shutter speed of 1/250 s or faster, and with other settings at default values.
*2*As of January 6, 2016, among D-SLR cameras using an APS-C size image sensor. Based on Nikon research.
Unique benefits of a compact DX system — added agility in telephoto shooting
Nikon's DX-format D500 provides an angle of view equivalent to that of a lens with an approx. 1.5x longer focal length*1. This permits telephoto shooting using smaller, lighter lenses with a shorter focal length, while taking advantage of performance that rivals the D5 FX-format flagship model. The camera's agility is also enhanced by the kit lens, AF-S DX NIKKOR 16-80mm f/2.8-4E ED VR, the lightweight 5x normal zoom lens, which weighs only approx. 1340 g/2 lb 15.3 oz*2 when attached to the D500.
*135mm-format equivalent.
*2Including battery, XQD memory card and lens.
4K UHD video, suitable for professional productions
The D500 can record 4K UHD (3840 x 2160)/30p/25p/24p as well as 1080/60p video for up to 29 min. 59 s*1, with simultaneous output via HDMI available. It is also possible to generate 4K UHD time-lapse movies within the camera. In Full HD or HD mode, the D500's electronic Vibration Reduction function*2 reduces the effects of camera shake in the horizontal, vertical and rotational directions during hand-held movie recording, while Active D-Lighting preserves details in highlights and shadows to capture footage with natural brightness.
*1Recorded in separate files.
*2Image area will be slightly smaller in DX-based movie format.
New EXPEED 5 image-processing engine achieves sensitivity up to ISO 51200, expandable to Hi 5 (equivalent to ISO 1640000)
The D500's new EXPEED 5 image-processing engine, as used in the D5, delivers standard ISO sensitivity from 100 to 51200, expandable down to Lo 1 (ISO 50 equivalent) and up to Hi 5 (ISO 1640000 equivalent). It can capture exceptionally high-definition images, while effectively reducing noise even at high ISO settings. The new 180K-pixel RGB sensor (approx. 180,000 pixels) further improves the performance of the camera's Advanced Scene Recognition System, and its flicker reduction for still images reduces exposure variations even under flickering light sources.
Touch-screen, tilting 8-cm/3.2-in. high-resolution monitor ensures more comfortable shooting for professionals and advanced amateurs
The D500's touch-panel monitor enables a variety of functions, including instant switching of images using the frame advance bar and text input — shared with the D5 — as well as touch AF and touch shutter (in still shooting). The tilting monitor with 3-axis hinge structure allows you to shoot from more flexible angles for stills and movies. And its large 8-cm/3.2-in. screen with significantly enhanced 2359k-dot resolution lets you confirm focus in amazingly precise detail.
SnapBridge support lets you link with a smart device via Bluetooth® and Wi-Fi®
The D500 can be constantly connected to a smart device* with the SnapBridge application installed (to be available as a free download), via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi. This enables a variety of features: you can automatically transfer images taken with the D500 to your smart device, as well as upload them automatically to NIKON IMAGE SPACE. You can also use the smart device to browse images stored in the camera, as well as embed images with its location and date/time information. SnapBridge dramatically enhances the value and convenience of images taken with the D500.
*Smartphones and tablet computers with iOS or Android™.
WT-7/A/B/C Wireless Transmitter (optional) enables high-speed wired/wireless LAN communication
Nikon's WT-7/A/B/C Wireless Transmitter is aimed at professionals who need to transfer images more quickly than they can with built-in wireless LAN. When attached to the D500, it allows images and movie files to be transferred to computers* or FTP server via both wired and wireless LAN. The D500 with WT-7/A/B/C can be used as a wireless LAN access point, permitting easy connections with computers and smart devices.
*Requires Wireless Transmitter Utility (available for download from Nikon website).
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Now that is a surprise. Not even Nikonrumors knew about it :)
At last the DX-shooters get what they have been longing for since the D300S.
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Very likely my next camera (perhaps with 200-500). ;D
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The AF array coverage is simply fantastic!
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Very likely my next camera (perhaps with 200-500). ;D
My thoughts exactly Chris, and in my case a re-entry in the wondrous world that is Nikon :)
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The AF array coverage is simply fantastic!
Where did you see that, really really curious about that.
Was busy refreshing the Nikon site and posting all the announcements, haven't checked the other sites much besides DPR.
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I see Akira selling his Oly and purchasing the D500 :)
As many others will.
The specs are unbelievable!!!
(I am just curious to know the high ISO capabilities)
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Product page is up http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d500/ (http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d500/) which also mentions it's 20.9MP, very nice balance between pixels and ISO me thinks.
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What I was saying is, I would like to see a jpeg straight out of the camera at 12.800 ISO :)
If it's anything close to the D4/Df I will consider getting one too!
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Thanks Jan Anne for the link.
Nikon is indeed raising the bar this time round. New AF module and new wireless flash technology.
Ok, having just bought the D750 I'm not in for a new camera just now.
But I'm glad to see that the DSLR is still further developed.
So we can assume that late 2016 or early 2017 a D760 should have the new AF module.
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It is very good to see that they finally got rid of the popup flash 8)
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Where did you see that, really really curious about that.
Was busy refreshing the Nikon site and posting all the announcements, haven't checked the other sites much besides DPR.
I read it somewhere in the announcement too.
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Here is the AF-coverage in the D500
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Where did you see that, really really curious about that.
Was busy refreshing the Nikon site and posting all the announcements, haven't checked the other sites much besides DPR.
From the announcement:
To keep pace with the action, the D500 is fitted with the same AF system as the Nikon D5, the Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module, with a separate dedicated processor for AF function. On the D500’s DX format sensor, the 153-point AF array fills the frame from side to side, letting users flawlessly track and lock-onto subjects from the edges of the viewfinder. Like the D5, the D500 utilizes the new 180K RGB Metering system and Advanced Scene Recognition System to help ensure balanced exposures and fantastic color rendition in nearly any shooting situation.
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Now that's a seriously impressive DX camera.
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It seems the touch-screen can be disabled, thank heavens for that. The D500 has all the familiar buttons on both sides of the LCD.
Touch-screen only would be a real turn-off.
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With 3 axis IR too. That's a new one for Nikon DSLR.
Every lens becomes VR effectively.
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I see Akira selling his Oly and purchasing the D500 :)
As many others will.
The specs are unbelievable!!!
(I am just curious to know the high ISO capabilities)
Jakov, I don't know what to say about it! :o :o :o
Nikon needs to announce good wideangle primes for DX. The newly announced 18-55 zooms in two seemingly redundant variation are not well balanced with D500.
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From the announcement:
I did read that but there's marketing talk and then there's the real thing, the image of the viewfinder Bjørn J posted shows the marketing isn't too far off the reality however :)
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With 3 axis IR too. That's a new one for Nikon DSLR.
Every lens becomes VR effectively.
I believe that function is only for FHD and HD video recording, not stills. And not 4k video.
That's how I read the marketing blurb.
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D500 has a 1.0X viewfinder magnification with 16mm eyepoint.
D5: 0.72X and 17mm.
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Jakov, I don't know what to say about it! :o :o :o
Nikon needs to announce good wideangle primes for DX. The newly announced 18-55 zooms in two seemingly redundant variation are not well balanced with D500.
10.5 DX fish-eye
20/1.8 AF-S
40/2.8 DX micro
what else?
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I believe that function is only for FHD and HD video recording, not stills. And not 4k video.
That's how I read the marketing blurb.
Oh. >:(
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10.5 DX fish-eye
20/1.8 AF-S
40/2.8 DX micro
what else?
I would want 18-20mm equivalent on DX (or m4/3 in this regard). For the fisheye, I would prefer the Samyang 8mm/f3.5 which is of stereographic projection type.
I bought two defect samples of 40/2.8 micro (both suffered from the oblique optical axis). Never want to try another.
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Just attached the images to the OP, I really dig the round viewfinder and the little joystick for what I assume is for AF point selection.
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I believe Bjørn R mentioned he had a Nikon event tonight ?
Can't wait for his comments
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Bjørn has to alternate between handling the new cameras and consuming the finest of foods a Michelin restaurant has to offer, I'm sure he is enjoying both in equal measure ;D
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"enhanced 2359k-dot resolution"
That is about twice as many dots as the D810 screen, the highest resolution screen on a DSLR. Not sure if that's a "retina grade" screen that Lloyd Chambers keeps asking for...
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Bjørn has to alternate between handling the new cameras and consuming the finest of foods a Michelin restaurant has to offer, I'm sure he is enjoying both in equal measure ;D
The Michelin restaurant would have to make sure that they have enough bananas in stock for Bjørn. ;D
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"enhanced 2359k-dot resolution"
That is about twice as many dots as the D810 screen, the highest resolution screen on a DSLR. Not sure if that's a "retina grade" screen that Lloyd Chambers keeps asking for...
What's more important is, I think, whether the response of the live view is fast and sharp enough to be used for focusing, not just viewing.
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I would want 18-20mm equivalent on DX (or m4/3 in this regard). For the fisheye, I would prefer the Samyang 8mm/f3.5 which is of stereographic projection type.
I bought two defect samples of 40/2.8 micro (both suffered from the oblique optical axis). Never want to try another.
Hasn't Samyang got a nice 14mm?
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I would want 18-20mm equivalent on DX (or m4/3 in this regard).
Did you see the new Tokina 14-20mm f/2 DX lens?
Link http://www.dpreview.com/news/4439209905/tokina-announces-ultra-wide-14-20mm-f2-lens-for-canon-and-nikon-crop-sensor-dslrs (http://www.dpreview.com/news/4439209905/tokina-announces-ultra-wide-14-20mm-f2-lens-for-canon-and-nikon-crop-sensor-dslrs)
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Hasn't Samyang got a nice 14mm?
Yes. Also there is an even wider 10/2.8. But they are both MF lenses, the distant scales are sloppy and don't focus very close (30cm at closest settings). The optical quality should be very good, though.
Did you see the new Tokina 14-20mm f/2 DX lens?
Link http://www.dpreview.com/news/4439209905/tokina-announces-ultra-wide-14-20mm-f2-lens-for-canon-and-nikon-crop-sensor-dslrs (http://www.dpreview.com/news/4439209905/tokina-announces-ultra-wide-14-20mm-f2-lens-for-canon-and-nikon-crop-sensor-dslrs)
Yes, I'm aware of that. Looks good actually, so long as I can get a non-defect sample.
I don't inted to generalize my unfortunate experiences, but my rate of encountering bad sample is pretty high. :(
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Two things:-
1. Mongo really hopes Nikon has properly tested this new camera and it is not another story of the need to carry out rectifications. Mongo will not be buying one until it has been out for a while and any unknowns become known, if any;
2. Price ???
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2. Price ???
$1,999.95 USD, available coming March.
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"Touch AF" is mentioned. If works just as well as on Oly OM-D E-M1, ground level macro will be a lot easier with the D500 than it used to be. The touch screen can be really useful.
What is the button on the low left of the AF-ON button?
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What is the button on the low left of the AF-ON button?
Joystick works just like cursor, and is great.
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What is the button on the low left of the AF-ON button?
The technology-digest document calls it a sub-selector.
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"Touch AF" is mentioned. If works just as well as on Oly OM-D E-M1, ground level macro will be a lot easier with the D500 than it used to be. The touch screen can be really useful.
What is the button on the low left of the AF-ON button?
I can't believe touch AF is precise enough for macro work. Sometimes for example one needs to focus exactly on the tip of an anther on a flower, and only manual focus will work in such cases.
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$1,999.95 USD, available coming March.
thank you JA
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REALLY interesting: Auto AF fine-tune done using LV focus to correct lens!
Link to brochure: http://chsvimg.nikon.com/lineup/microsite/d500/common/pdf/technology-digest.pdf
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Same AF Fine-Tune as in the D5. Actually, the two cameras D5+D500 is very similar concept as the D3+D300 in their day. Nikon has put a lot of efforts in making the camera layout as similar as possible. Same goes for specifications in terms of ISO etc. The rated ISO range is just 1 EV lower than the new King of Darkness, D5.
Nikon Nordic did not have any knowledge of the camera until just a week ago, so no wonder the world was taken by surprise !! Nikon Nordic CEO declared this is indeed representing the "D400" so much asked and longer for among the Nikon aficionados.
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I am really happy Nikon decided to finally get the "D400" to market
I am sure this will be the natural upgrade for so many Nikon shooters. All those who have not yet switched to mirrorless.
Is it too late? I do not know. The specs are amazing.
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Time Stamps are off. I posted this before Bjørn but the time stamp is 2 hours later
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I can't believe touch AF is precise enough for macro work. Sometimes for example one needs to focus exactly on the tip of an anther on a flower, and only manual focus will work in such cases.
You need to try it before you make up your mind. I thought that would be the most ridiculous of features, but proved myself wrong with Olympus. In addition Nikon has provided a new joy-stick (thanks, Jakov), which may turn out very useful. It reminds me of that found on some IBM/Lenovo laptops, which I like.
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In case anybody had doubts: I have ordered a review sample and will get this as soon as the camera arrives here. Might take some time though as I expect demand for it to be excessive.
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As a D300s owner, the D500 looks like an ideal replacement. The little joystick reminds me of the one on the Leica SL (Typ 601). http://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/3584092808/leica-sl-typ-601/5661622510
Look forward to reading the hands on reviews!
That said, having mostly switched over to an Olympus EM1, I don't see myself buying the D500 any time soon.
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http://www.ishootshows.com/2016/01/05/shooting-impressions-on-assignment-with-the-nikon-d500-and-sb-5000/ (http://www.ishootshows.com/2016/01/05/shooting-impressions-on-assignment-with-the-nikon-d500-and-sb-5000/)
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The D500 certainly got my attention ;D . I've never been happy with the latest DX offerings for Sport. Seems at least one thing was always left out ; fps, buffer ,Focus Point coverage. Not going to rush but would be great to be able to use a DX again at the end of late afternoon/early evening Soccer matches : The 300 2.8 with no TC... super cool.
Edit: I would really be interested in the AF fine tune in live view ;) It appears that Nikon has been listening, just took their time about it ;) .
Bring on some reviews ;)
Tom
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http://www.ishootshows.com/2016/01/05/shooting-impressions-on-assignment-with-the-nikon-d500-and-sb-5000/ (http://www.ishootshows.com/2016/01/05/shooting-impressions-on-assignment-with-the-nikon-d500-and-sb-5000/)
Love the comment about the AF module "Excuse me while I scream like a fangirl at a One Direction concert"
When I purchased the D800 upgrading from the D300 I felt the Af improved significantly, getting -4EV sensitivity has to be fantastic
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Size comparison is already available:
http://camerasize.com/compact/#557,648,188,440,ha,f (http://camerasize.com/compact/#557,648,188,440,ha,f)
I feared the D500 body was the size of D810, but it has pretty much kept the dimensions from D200/D300, with a prism housing that does not extend as far forward as seen from the top, and it is thinner than D7100 (D750 style) at the grip:
http://camerasize.com/compact/#557,648,188,440,ha,t (http://camerasize.com/compact/#557,648,188,440,ha,t)
It is also close to the D750 in size.
After recently getting a refurbished D7100 and warming up to it, I am not ready to pre-order the D500 (thus not likely to have it available by the summer if it follows the 300PF trend...), but I could see one in my future once possible bugs have been worked out if the sensor is as marked an advancement as indicated. I wonder who designed and who manufactures the sensor ?
Added: It is food for thought though that the D500 costs 4x what I paid for my refurbished D7100...
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I am sure the D500 is a great camera for a bunch of photographers, but it probably does not fit into my garage
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My gut tells me, the used market is going to see some real bargains on used D7000-series cameras and well-worked D300s'. (Yeah. I'm kinda brilliant like that.) And, as my moniker might suggest, I know a thing or three about "wannabe" photographers, more concerned with showing off their kit in the park weekends then putting it to any hard use. So we hungry sort, should expect quite a few used, near-mint, D7200's adorning the shelves of our favorite mega store, as people with the means trade up to the D500. And I thank them, most sincerely! Yes, there can be a silver lining to living in the New York metro area. Call it a dividend, at the edge of civilization. Then, there is eBay... ::)
In case anybody had doubts: I have ordered a review sample and will get this as soon as the camera arrives here. Might take some time though as I expect demand for it to be excessive.
Bjørn, you are indeed the point-man supreme to many an aspiring owners' dream. As we anxiously await your evaluation, we're confident we can count on you to cut through the bull... no, make that, the reindeer dung (given your latitude and attitude) to present us with the unvarnished truth, which all hope will include the "ungreased" [sic] truth as well, less we revisit relatively recent nightmares. Still, you got to call it as you see it -- spots and all, if they show. If I were superstitious, I wouldn't even joke about such a thing.
Meanwhile, any prognostications on it's possible UV/IR performance? (Andrea, you on this?)
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I preordered the D5 long before the announcement, but with the surprising D500 announcement, it will be hard to choose between the two cameras! (Of course, the rich man's solution would be to get both :) )
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"Meanwhile, any prognostications on it's possible UV/IR performance? (Andrea, you on this?)"
Quite poor by extrapolation of known data. However, in particular the D500 might be a prime candidate for modification as a "full spectrum" camera.
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"Meanwhile, any prognostications on it's possible UV/IR performance? (Andrea, you on this?)"
Quite poor by extrapolation of known data. However, in particular the D500 might be a prime candidate for modification as a "full spectrum" camera.
A-hahhhhh! And thanks!
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Size comparison is already available:
Thanks for the links, looks very interesting.
I assume most will use the D500 with big tele lenses, the grip is long as its predecessor but also very slim with little room for gloves like the D750 which might be problematic for some. I have very slim and nimble fingers so I should be OK but a pair of bear claws might not fit ;)
Any sightings of the mentioned grip yet?
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Any word on when the D510 will be released?
/Bill
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Any word on when the D510 will be released?
/Bill
... "later" ...
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Any sightings of the mentioned grip yet?
The MB-D17 grip is shown in the D500 technology digest document:
http://chsvimg.nikon.com/lineup/microsite/d500/common/pdf/technology-digest.pdf
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Any word on when the D510 will be released?
/Bill
Assuming you mean D500: "The D500 will be available from March at a cost of around $2000" according to the DPReview announcement.
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The product page for the MB-D17 grip is up as well: http://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/power-packs/mb-d17-multi-battery-power-pack.html (http://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/power-packs/mb-d17-multi-battery-power-pack.html)
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D500 suffers from the same "Canonesque" melt-down first seen on the D4 and later, unfortunately, repeated with D4s and now D5. The finger support provided by earlier models when you shoot in portrait mode is diminished due to the outline shape of the finder, as it is less set off from the camera than for D3/s/x and suchlike models. Adding the dedicated grip might improve handling although it makes the camera significantly bulkier.
However, in numerous other respects, the D500 is a major breakthrough and I'm really looking forward to put the camera through its paces when my review sample arrives.
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:)
What else?
My next for sure...
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Assuming you mean D500: "The D500 will be available from March at a cost of around $2000" according to the DPReview announcement.
No, I actually did mean the D510--the replacement model to fix the problems in the D500.
/Bill
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What is the knurled button shown on both the D5 and D500 close to the AF-ON button? Does anyone know? Is there a place one can download a user manual for the D5 and D500.
Dave
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No, I actually did mean the D510--the replacement model to fix the problems in the D500.
/Bill
A bit early for that, isn't it? Only pre-production D500 units exist ...
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What is the knurled button shown on both the D5 and D500 close to the AF-ON button? Does anyone know? Is there a place one can download a user manual for the D5 and D500.
Dave
The "joystick" is a programmable control. You can alter certain camera settings on the fly with it. They told me yesterday but I was hit by information overload in conjunction with too much excellent white wine to recall now ...
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Can it be disabled?
With its proximity to the AF-On button I could easily imagine problems with accidental activation when wearing gloves or mittens. Even the multi-selector has that problem; when I wear thick mittens I tend to lock it to prevent the focus point from ending out in the periphery...
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A default disabling method that usually works: epoxy glue...
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:)
I was thinking about something more temperature selective...
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Thank you to Ovind for finding this:
http://www.ishootshows.com/2016/01/05/shooting-impressions-on-assignment-with-the-nikon-d500-and-sb-5000/ (http://www.ishootshows.com/2016/01/05/shooting-impressions-on-assignment-with-the-nikon-d500-and-sb-5000/)
Todd Owyoung has shot Nikon for years, so not everyone might view him as having an unbiased view. However this report is based on real-world usage last Autumn.
There are several images posted, sadly I couldn't find any details of ISO settings etc.
A couple of quotes caught my eye:
"how does the new 153-point system work in the real world? Shooting with the Nikon D500, when ambient light conditions called for ISO 12800 and above, the AF of the D500 crushed it, even with moving, low contrast subjects in dim lighting (AKA live music photography). When I photograph musicians, they are almost in constant motion — rocking back and forth, moving up to a mic stand to sing and then shifting back to shred — and this kind of action often happens in very low lighting. A typical show might require an exposure of ISO 6400 at f/2.8 and 1/500, and in this type of lighting, AF has to perform or you go home without the shot. The Nikon D500’s AF nailed these kinds of challenges with ease.
I shoot almost exclusively in AF-C, and I found that the D500 new AF module and algorithms are as good as anything I’ve ever used and better. Nikon’s AF has always been excellent and one of the reasons I have always used Nikon DSLRs, and the D500 only improves on this legacy."
and
"In particular, the new 153-point AF system is class-leading, and I think that this, combined with the 10 FPS continuous shooting rate, are going to be game changers for any photographers who chase decisive moments."
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Now that Nikon isn't hesitant anymore to bring the D5 speed and capabilities in a smaller form factor I wonder if we can also expect a true followup of the D700 based on the D500 and with the D5 sensor, man oh man what a camera that would be with a price somewhere between the D500 and D5.
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I thought you had found eternal bliss with your Sony partner(s)?
Must admit the D500 tempts me a lot.
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A default disabling method that usually works: epoxy glue...
Screw the glue! I'm going to hold out for the "Apollo" variant, or what by then may well be referred to as the D510 Mars Lander. Its distinctive feature will be all the superfluous, over-sized METAL controls actuators, knobs and such. There will even be an app for attaining the seriously retro-cool D100 like image. Carl Zeiss will be clamoring to get limited edition, manual focus lenses made of depleted uranium alloys and iridium glass to market in time for the first Olympic games scheduled to be held in Pyongyang. I will finally purchase a beat-up, used D3x with 1.999k actuations [sic] on it for a paltry 75€. Someone on a yet to be determined web site will muse how great a camera "the Mars" could have been, if only the designers listen to enthusiasts and implemented a film loading capability.
Life is good! Upon careful, independent evaluation last night, I've come to the preliminary conclusion that the D500 might just exceed all expectations in its potential, skewed largely toward greatness. Even if it takes a bit of glue, or white wine, to affirm that!
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I thought you had found eternal bliss with your Sony partner(s)?
Must admit the D500 tempts me a lot.
For my (multi brand) short lenses a full frame mirrorless camera is the way for me, currently the a7S checks all the boxes.
But I am looking for a dedicated and speedy "something long" solution for 2016 as mentioned here http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2145.0.html (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2145.0.html)
The D500 combined with a 200-500/5.6VR seems to be the ticket if the ISO works as advertised and can deliver clean ISO6400 files.
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10.5 DX fish-eye
20/1.8 AF-S
40/2.8 DX micro
what else?
A 16mm would be nice for us DX'ers! ;D
-frank-
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Price in the NL is btw €2369 including 21% VAT.
The 10fps is with the standard battery so there should be no mandatory grip, D5 battery and charger upgrade needed to get the full potential out of the D500 which is nice.
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A 16mm would be nice for us DX'ers! ;D
-frank-
Isn't there an excellent 16-35 f/4 out there?
Alternatively the 16/2.8 fish-eye?
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Isn't there an excellent 16-35 f/4 out there?
Alternatively the 16/2.8 fish-eye?
I like where you're going, with this!
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Isn't there an excellent 16-35 f/4 out there?
Alternatively the 16/2.8 fish-eye?
I'm sure the 16-35/f4 is excellent (I have never tried it), but a 16mm prime at 250 grams, and half the size of the zoom is a completly different animal. And f1.8, f2.0 or even 2.8 is also quite different than f4.0. So I still wish for a good set of DX wideangle primes, even though it's not likely to happen. But who knows, not many people saw the D500 coming....
-frank-
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After some digging I finally found some mention of the AF auto fine-tune on the D5 and D500;
https://photographylife.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-nikon-d500
and on Thom's site .
No details but I really hope it works as Nasim describes.
Bjørn, was this discussed at all?
Cheers,
Tom
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Not only discussed, but demonstrated over a TV hookup.
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So , does this mean that the camera permanently remembers the adjustment for that Lens and that FL or is that too much to ask? I'm in no huge rush so I can wait until you've the camera in hand for testing/review :)
Thanks,
Tom
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No, you are allowed to ask so the D500 can answer an affirmative 'yes'. It remembers.
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Wow, for me that is stunning ;D . Puts the D500 firmly on my to get list. Seems the Voigtlander 15 15mm f4.5 will just have to wait ;)
Thanks again,
Tom
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I am already destined for a D500 experience...if ISO6400-8000 is comparable to my D750. Stellar AF performance and coverage which should be perfect for my dance pvotography.
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The product page for the MB-D17 grip is up as well: http://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/power-packs/mb-d17-multi-battery-power-pack.html (http://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/power-packs/mb-d17-multi-battery-power-pack.html)
Why do we need a new grip for every new camera?
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Why do we need a new grip for every new camera?
So we make sure Nikon stays i business.
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I am already destined for a D500 experience...if ISO6400-8000 is comparable to my D750. Stellar AF performance and coverage which should be perfect for my dance pvotography.
I'm thinking along those lines as well. Big surprise. Waiting on a high iso comparison.
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I told my dealer to add me to the list.
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They had to bring this camera just when I thought I was done with DX format for good! ;)
I might reconsider if the camera is as good as it looks atm. Will wait for user reviews for sure. As many of you I am looking for better AF and high ISO capabilities beyond anything I own for my event/street photography.
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A couple of small things which haven't been mentioned so far:
DK-17F Fluorine-Coated Finder Eyepiece - eyepieces can get very dirty so having fluorine coating is a nice touch.
2359k-dot (XGA) monitor with 1024 x 768 x RGB dots. That is more than twice as many as the the previous high: the D5300/5500 with 720 x 480 x RGB. Interestingly the new screens are not RGBW like the D810/750.
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Nikon claimed they were RGBW. At least that is what I remember and it was before the white wine consumption had peaked :D
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1024 x 768 x 3(RGB) = 2359296 (2359K dots)
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1024 x 768 x 3(RGB) = 2359296 (2359K dots)
+ the white wine = RGBW 😁
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I told my dealer to add me to the list.
I hope I´m in front of you on that list ;)
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I like this camera and what it promises.
I think the old Nikon of the F90/F100 days is back!
The view finder sounds great, even though its housing is still a bit on the prominent side for my taste.
It'd be nice if they were going to offer an option for a double XQD card slot. This would be a really nice and welcome surprise.
I still have an F90 and now after 20 years Nikon was able to issue the digital version of the venerable film camera.
I really hope Nikon had learned from the recent past: I expect better QC and tight more stringent tolerances (for both camera and lenses, now on).
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I think for the D500 it is a good idea to have XQD and SD.
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Definitely better than having XQD + CF, for sure.
I don't dislike XQD and SD though.
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This multiple Nikon announcement is the first one that has really captured my imagination for many years.
I have nearly nothing left in Nikon F mount, but I have found myself wanting to buy one/both cameras for no real reason - they would be overkill for what I am able to shot these days.
Still, if I will the lottery ticket this Saturday, I will take the plunge. ;)
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I have nearly nothing left in Nikon F mount, but I have found myself wanting to buy one/both cameras for no real reason - they would be overkill for what I am able to shot these days.
My thoughts exactly. Rationally I do not need any of these. Financially I can afford both of them. My eyes are so bad currently that I should better think about a system with image review in an electronic finder like Fuji or Sony or Olympus.
After the first euphoria I know I do not need to hurry any decision.
I bought the D3 six months after it came to market, but I never needed her speed. I needed HighISO, she delivered. I needed robustness, she delivered. I needed prestige for some customers, she delivered.
Today? I am not sure. I am very happy with the D600, very happy with my 360Precision-Kolor-Panorama setup, very happy with my Sinar-tabletop-setup, very happy with the D3 as a portrait camera...
What can get better with speedy AF and fps? Nothing in what I currently do. Rationally I take the 8.000 Euro instead and ask some professionals to build a better multi channel customer acquisition system for food photo customers. Then I try the D850 as soon as she comes out as a better Digiback for my Sinar-contraption and reduce the D600 as a panorama/archtecture body.
Gosh. Emotions!
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After checking these specs I think that the D850 (whatever the number will be) will be the next DSLR for me. I am just so much used to my D800 bodies - going back to DX would be a strange move for me right now. As a tele shooting work horse the D500 seems ideal. After all these years waiting for a D300 follow on - I just settled somehow in FX land. Having this buffer and speed and no more an integrated flash plastic gimmick to take care of ... would be so cool to have this in a solid D8xx package.
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The D500, long awaited, nobody believed it any more, now it is reality. Fantastic specs and I am sure I will get one to replace my D300 and my DX line will survive besides the FX main branch. Ideal body of course for supertele photography. Second field of use might be dynamic ground level macro, might finally buy a macro-lens with AF.
Think I will wait until the first storm will reduce and it has been proven that there are no issues. Initial interest will indeed be excessive and I think the D500 will also fire the sales of relatively compact lenses like the 80-400.
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Actually, the two cameras D5+D500 is very similar concept as the D3+D300 in their day.
This is evident. With some delay the D700 arrived.
We could probably expect a semi-pro body with the D5 Sensor 2016-2017, may it be something like a D900 or a Df2
Its indeed the only downside so far with the D500 that it does not use the MB-D12
D300 and D700 both shared the MB-D10
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The "joystick" is a programmable control. You can alter certain camera settings on the fly with it. They told me yesterday but I was hit by information overload in conjunction with too much excellent white wine to recall now ...
D4S also got the joystick, so far I did not find any use of it. Looks as if there is no option to deactivate it, but so far it did not get in my way as the AE-L button was frequently intertwined with AF-ON on the D8xx, D7xx and D3xx series
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I used the joystick frequently on the D4 when moving the AF points from one side of the frame to other. Instead of clicking the round cursor and making an irritating sound, all you need to do is move the joystick :)
The joystick never got in the way of any other buttons or functions!
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I used the joystick frequently on the D4 when moving the AF points from one side of the frame to other. Instead of clicking the round cursor and making an irritating sound, all you need to do is move the joystick :)
The joystick never got in the way of any other buttons or functions!
Think I might give that a try, as the D4s Standard AF point control'S usability is worse than say the D800E due to its smaller size
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DP Review just posted a detailed overview of the D5/D500. The new auto AF fine tune feature sounds very promising on both cameras and the D500 seems to be just about the perfect pro DX body. I can't imagine what I would change.
http://www.dpreview.com/opinions/7352408758/nikon-s-new-d5-and-d500-push-the-boundaries-of-dslr (http://www.dpreview.com/opinions/7352408758/nikon-s-new-d5-and-d500-push-the-boundaries-of-dslr)
By the way, glad to find this forum up and running again, and with a host of old time regulars!
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Some D500 camera porn images here:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20160107_737989.html
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By the way, glad to find this forum up and running again, and with a host of old time regulars!
Welcome JamesT!!!
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Some D500 camera porn images here:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20160107_737989.html
And March still away...
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And March still away...
Put myself on the waiting list today
NAS is creeping up again ;-)
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Better AF, 10 fps, deep buffer, all this will be great with a 200-500mm for birds.
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I am really happy Nikon decided to finally get the "D400" to market
I am sure this will be the natural upgrade for so many Nikon shooters. All those who have not yet switched to mirrorless.
Is it too late? I do not know. The specs are amazing.
This. It does look like a game changer in APS-C sector. A lot of enthusiasts with baby Nikons will think twice now before jumping the ship.
Probably too late for me, since I have invested heavily into FUJI X. But this camera has nevertheless made me stop selling the rest of my Nikon lenses. I have got a bit more reluctant to part with Nikon glass. :o
Regardless of whether I get back to Nikon or not at some stage, I hope D500 will be a good kick in the ass for other manufacturers.
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Hello pals I have a question regarding probable purchase of D500. Till now I was doing only general photography and was using D810 with an array of lenses. After the release of Nikon 200-500 VR , the increased reach within my budget compelled me to get one and I am doing a bit of wild-life too. Sometimes I use the 1.2X crop mode of D810 for greater reach and faster buffer. Will the D500 be more helpful in terms of even increased reach and 10 FPS ? Will the extra dollars be justified ?
Cheers
Somnath
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Hello pals I have a question regarding probable purchase of D500. Till now I was doing only general photography and was using D810 with an array of lenses. After the release of Nikon 200-500 VR , the increased reach within my budget compelled me to get one and I am doing a bit of wild-life too. Sometimes I use the 1.2X crop mode of D810 for greater reach and faster buffer. Will the D500 be more helpful in terms of even increased reach and 10 FPS ? Will the extra dollars be justified ?
Cheers
Somnath
the 1.5x crop portion of your d810 is a bit over 15MP - so compared to the 21MP of the d500 in that same "area" of the sensor, no, there's not much difference in "reach."
so really it comes down to 10FPS and the AF improvements. if you find yourself missing moments in between frames, or having out of focus shots, then it might be worth it ;)
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the 1.5x crop portion of your d810 is a bit over 15MP - so compared to the 21MP of the d500 in that same "area" of the sensor, no, there's not much difference in "reach."
so really it comes down to 10FPS and the AF improvements. if you find yourself missing moments in between frames, or having out of focus shots, then it might be worth it ;)
Thanks a lot, waiting for others to chip in too.
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Somnath, I have been shooting a D7000 for three years. Mostly nature but with a heavy emphasis on birds in flight. I found the AF speed very frustrating. I recently gave up waiting for a pro DX and upgraded to a D750 (then Nikon's best AF system).
My success rate at capturing birds in flight has increased massively. Even on static subjects the AF is a lot more accurate.
If the D500's AF system is as good as it looks on paper, this camera may well be a game changer for nature and BIF.
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Somnath, I have been shooting a D7000 for three years. Mostly nature but with a heavy emphasis on birds in flight. I found the AF speed very frustrating. I recently gave up waiting for a pro DX and upgraded to a D750 (then Nikon's best AF system).
My success rate at capturing birds in flight has increased massively. Even on static subjects the AF is a lot more accurate.
If the D500's AF system is as good as it looks on paper, this camera may well be a game changer for nature and BIF.
Tested a D7000. The problem I found was not the AF speed- it was decent (then compared with D700, D300 and even one of the First D4 bodies) but with AF-accuracy.
AF-systems are advancing and one of the main reasons to upgrade if you do action photography
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the 1.5x crop portion of your d810 is a bit over 15MP - so compared to the 21MP of the d500 in that same "area" of the sensor, no, there's not much difference in "reach."
so really it comes down to 10FPS and the AF improvements. if you find yourself missing moments in between frames, or having out of focus shots, then it might be worth it ;)
Yes thats the point. I am using a D800E configured to quickly switch between FX and DX. The advantage, i can get full frame if situation is allowing it and increased range and speed when needed, plus I can see in the viewfinder what is around the DX frame - sometimes this is advantageous to anticipate and get tight framed shots. The downside: it is still slow in terms of fps and buffer size, then the D4S has its merits again. The only DX-way to get in this range is now promised by the D500. Will see how this will change habits again.
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ISO 1.6M on rear display ;)
http://www.chip.de/news/Nikon-D500-ausprobiert-Semiprofi-DSLR-mit-Ultra-HD-und-ISO-3.280.000_87812330.html (http://www.chip.de/news/Nikon-D500-ausprobiert-Semiprofi-DSLR-mit-Ultra-HD-und-ISO-3.280.000_87812330.html)
(down the page, found via dpreview).
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Thanks guys for valuable inputs. :)
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No, you are allowed to ask so the D500 can answer an affirmative 'yes'. It remembers.
Bjorn: I wonder if you could clarify your response to tommiejeep (reply #83 directly above your post that is quote here) in response to your comment that you saw a TV demonstration of the D500 in-camera AF Fine Tune function? Tommiejeep had asked you in post #83 if the AF fine tune settings could be saved for more than one focal length of a zoom lens? As I understood, your response to him indicated that the AF Fine Tune setting for a zoom lens would be saved for when that lens would be re-mounted. However, I wonder if the demonstration you saw also showed that one zoom lens at different focal lengths could be fine tuned and saved for a few different focal lengths, e.g, long end, middle and wide. I ask all of this because there was a post from a day or two ago at DPreview from someone who attended the CES show just recently in Las Vegas, NV where he asked a Nikon rep if AF fine tune at different focal lengths for a zoom was possible and the response from the Nikon rep was "no." However, the person who had asked that question also indicated that one other Nikon rep there didn't even know anything about the whole AF fine tune feature, suggesting that NikonUSA's booth personnel really don't know much about their products which is not surprising.
Thanks in advance for any clarification you can offer. This is my first post here after joining yesterday. This forum is terrific. I hope the fact that my preference is red versus white wine will not cause me to serve time in some NG purgatory. Best Regards, Jim
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ISO 1.6M on rear display ;)
http://www.chip.de/news/Nikon-D500-ausprobiert-Semiprofi-DSLR-mit-Ultra-HD-und-ISO-3.280.000_87812330.html (http://www.chip.de/news/Nikon-D500-ausprobiert-Semiprofi-DSLR-mit-Ultra-HD-und-ISO-3.280.000_87812330.html)
(down the page, found via dpreview).
pointilism...
great for the "far below any sane asumption" thread!
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ISO 1.6M on rear display ;)
http://www.chip.de/news/Nikon-D500-ausprobiert-Semiprofi-DSLR-mit-Ultra-HD-und-ISO-3.280.000_87812330.html (http://www.chip.de/news/Nikon-D500-ausprobiert-Semiprofi-DSLR-mit-Ultra-HD-und-ISO-3.280.000_87812330.html)
(down the page, found via dpreview).
Some more high ISO screen shots here, also with more realistic ISOs including zoomed in views:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57069027 (http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57069027)
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Sony-Nikon conspiracy? ;D ;D ;D
http://www.dpreview.com/news/4858565432/sony-introduces-new-xqd-and-sd-cards
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What I was saying is, I would like to see a jpeg straight out of the camera at 12.800 ISO :)
If it's anything close to the D4/Df I will consider getting one too!
Frankly to expect good quality @ 12,800 ISO is asking a little too much for a DX sensor even with current technology IMO, and one couldn't expect it to even come close to a FX- D4s/D4, or even a D3.
The ISO comparison to make @ the moment is the DX- D7200 which I had and sold recently and found for me the limit I was happy to stretch the ISO was 1600/2000 tops.
So IF the D500 can push that 1 to 1 1/2 stops to ISO3200/4000 I'd be pretty happy.
Cheers
Marc
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I don't need a new camera, but....
For me it ticks all the boxes I am interested in
Killer AF
High FPS
Movie
The only question mark that remains is, will it be better than my D700 in the region of iso 6400?
I am eagerly waiting for the reviews :)
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Bjorn: I wonder if you could clarify your response to tommiejeep (reply #83 directly above your post that is quote here) in response to your comment that you saw a TV demonstration of the D500 in-camera AF Fine Tune function? Tommiejeep had asked you in post #83 if the AF fine tune settings could be saved for more than one focal length of a zoom lens? As I understood, your response to him indicated that the AF Fine Tune setting for a zoom lens would be saved for when that lens would be re-mounted. However, I wonder if the demonstration you saw also showed that one zoom lens at different focal lengths could be fine tuned and saved for a few different focal lengths, e.g, long end, middle and wide. I ask all of this because there was a post from a day or two ago at DPreview from someone who attended the CES show just recently in Las Vegas, NV where he asked a Nikon rep if AF fine tune at different focal lengths for a zoom was possible and the response from the Nikon rep was "no." However, the person who had asked that question also indicated that one other Nikon rep there didn't even know anything about the whole AF fine tune feature, suggesting that NikonUSA's booth personnel really don't know much about their products which is not surprising.
Thanks in advance for any clarification you can offer. This is my first post here after joining yesterday. This forum is terrific. I hope the fact that my preference is red versus white wine will not cause me to serve time in some NG purgatory. Best Regards, Jim
Jim, good to see you here :) I think we are going to have to wait for Bjørn to get is D500 for proper testing :( . So far most of the "Hands On" reviews are literally that. Most of the ones that actually shot the camera were not interested in fine tuning, and particularly, not long lenses. Is strange that not many even mention it :( . I can find nothing from Nikon explaining how it works. May take a while, Bjørn was still finding things with the Df after his initial assessment. Hopefully we'll get the full story before your trip and before I have the money to buy it :) The only reason I can think of why Nikon has not made it a selling point is that they do not want to admit that some of their bodies need fine tuning with some expensive lenses... lol ... as if was a trade secret ;)
Cheers,
Tom
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"The only question mark that remains is, will it be better than my D700 in the region of iso 6400?"
Betting against that assumption will give very poor odds ...
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I have very limited experience compared to most people here.
But all the Nikons I have used over the years (D100, D80, D7000 and D750) look fairly similar at maximum native ISO.
If the D500 (and D5) follow this trend, they must have made some serious strides in sensor technology, but I guess one can live in hope?
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..........but I guess one can live in hope?
Apparently HOPE is a poor business model. But don't let me stop you from dreaming :)
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"The only question mark that remains is, will it be better than my D700 in the region of iso 6400?"
Betting against that assumption will give very poor odds ...
That means my wallet might take a hit.
D500 + Tamron 17-50 +80-200 af-s for sportshall shooting should cover most bases.
Let the waiting game for reviews start :)
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I have been invited to a session with Nikon tomorrow where the new babies will be presented.
Are there still any questions you'd like me to try and find out more about?
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Sten, it would be just dandy if you could compare the high ISO capabilities with the Df :)
My optimistic guess would be:
D500 @ ISO 6.400 = Df @ ISO 12.800
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As usual I won't be able to get any images on a card so comparison will have to be visual on the cameras' screen. Will bring the Df and 750 with me.
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A little off topic but.....
I am wondering as there was a D3 (FX), D700 (FX) and D300(S) (DX), so will there be a D5 (FX), D550 or ?D850? (FX) and D500 (DX).
A D550 would be a FX 21MP FX camera with all the other features of the D500.
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A little off topic but.....
I am wondering as there was a D3 (FX), D700 (FX) and D300(S) (DX), so will there be a D5 (FX), D550 or ?D850? (FX) and D500 (DX).
A D550 would be a FX 21MP FX camera with all the other features of the D500.
IF there is to be another D700 equivalent my take is
FX line:
D5 - 21mp (Multicam 20k)
D50 - 21mp (Multicam 3500FX or 20k)
D850 - 42mp (Multicam 20k and the Sony sensor)
D750 - 24mp (Multicam 20k)
D650 - 24mp (Multicam 3500FX)
Df2 - 21mp (Multicam 3500FX)
DX line:
D500 - 21mp (Multicam 20k)
D7500 - 24mp (Multicam 20k or Adv 3500DX and tilt screen)
D5600 - 24mp (Adv Multicam 3500DX and rotational screen)
D3500 - 24mp (Multicam 4800DX)
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Sten, I would like to learn if the D500 Bluetooth transmitter can work with an ordinary Bluetooth GPS mouse.
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Sten, I would like to learn if the D500 Bluetooth transmitter can work with an ordinary Bluetooth GPS mouse.
I'll see if I can mate the D500 with my Holux GPS unit.
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I have been invited to a session with Nikon tomorrow where the new babies will be presented.
Cool, have fun :)
No other questions other than NEF's with high ISO performance buts that's difficult to obtain with non prod cams.
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I have been invited to a session with Nikon tomorrow where the new babies will be presented.
Are there still any questions you'd like me to try and find out more about?
If you could try out the auto fine tune it would be interesting.
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If you could try out the auto fine tune it would be interesting.
Yes, that would be nice.
Impressions about the handling.
I'dd think for the rest we'll have to wait for the production versions.
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I have been invited to a session with Nikon tomorrow where the new babies will be presented.
Are there still any questions you'd like me to try and find out more about?
HI: I posted this question to Bjorn a few days ago in this D500 thread. But I don't think Bjorn has seen it. This is my question:
Bjorn: I wonder if you could clarify your response to tommiejeep (reply #83 directly above your post that is quote here) in response to your comment that you saw a TV demonstration of the D500 in-camera AF Fine Tune function? Tommiejeep had asked you in post #83 if the AF fine tune settings could be saved for more than one focal length of a zoom lens? As I understood, your response to him indicated that the AF Fine Tune setting for a zoom lens would be saved for when that lens would be re-mounted. However, I wonder if the demonstration you saw also showed that one zoom lens at different focal lengths could be fine tuned and saved for a few different focal lengths, e.g, long end, middle and wide. I ask all of this because there was a post from a day or two ago at DPreview from someone who attended the CES show just recently in Las Vegas, NV where he asked a Nikon rep if AF fine tune at different focal lengths for a zoom was possible and the response from the Nikon rep was "no." However, the person who had asked that question also indicated that one other Nikon rep there didn't even know anything about the whole AF fine tune feature, suggesting that NikonUSA's booth personnel really don't know much about their products which is not surprising.
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James, you are correct in assuming your post was overlooked by me. The information stream on NG currently is so fast-paced it's easy to miss out posts. Not sure whether this is for the good or worse.
Cannot remember if the Nikon guys discussed the exact topic you refer to. I did observed the fine-tune conducted in situ though. Let Sten pester them to get the complete answer.
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I will pester ;D
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Ok, back from the Nikon session.
Big drawback: the D500 is not present i Norway so no luck there.
AF fine tuning via LV. It works, is easy to do but only for one focal length if a zoom is tuned.
D5 and high ISO: compared to my Df I'd say it's about 1/2-1 stop better (jpeg on screen). Nikon has managed to reduce colour noise/mottling and orthogonal read-out noise striping at very high (>100.000 ISO). This is a clear improvement over the Df. The AF performance is crazy good. How much better than the D4s is hard to judge with no direct camera/scene comparison. In AF-C Auto it easily picked out a face even if it was placed in front of a high contrast and very bright large screen. VERY impressive! Ergonomics is just a small refinememt from the prwvious model.
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Sten:
Thanks for the info. Could the AF fine tune be done for different distances, or would it only remember one distance setting? I might shoot birds between 20 feet and 30 yards, all with same lens/camera combo, so being able to fine tune at different distances would be tremendous.
Thanks
Randy
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I wonder if the size/shape of the D500 focusing screen is the same as for D7100/D7200 and/or D300s?
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Sten:
Thanks for the info. Could the AF fine tune be done for different distances, or would it only remember one distance setting? I might shoot birds between 20 feet and 30 yards, all with same lens/camera combo, so being able to fine tune at different distances would be tremendous.
Thanks
Randy
It was only one af fine tune setting for each lens.
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I wonder if the size/shape of the D500 focusing screen is the same as for D7100/D7200 and/or D300s?
I wonder the same thing. But given the new AF sensor, mirror/submirror and 1.0x viewfinder it may be that the focusing screen is different as well.
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I'll see if I can mate the D500 with my Holux GPS unit.
That would be awesome!
I use the AOKA bt receiver on my cameras .. but the D800's 10 pin port just collapsed inwards the other week. :'(
It'd be nice if the native bt could read a bt GPS device.
On the Nikon website somewhere I noted that there was a marketing material created that specified that location data could be embedded via this bt connection with a smartphone.
This is quoted directly from the Snapbridge section of the D500 marketing blurb:
You can also use the smart device to browse images stored in the camera, as well as embed images with its location and date/time information.
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Another interesting thing about 4K recording with the D500:
If recording to memory card the 29'59" limit will be made up of 10x3min files. Nikon said that the camera automatically keeps recording but the 29'59" session will consist of 10 files. This is of course not the case with direct video out.
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This is a work-around to cater for the 4GB file limit of the file system used on the memory cards.
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Here's how "Automatic" AF-fine tuning works:
On a tripod in good lighting condition, engage LV.
Focus, the press and hold the AF mode button + (halfpress?) the shutter release simulataneously, a message is displayed on the screen, hit OK. The lens is now calibrated (this is how I remember the procedure).
For zooms there is still only one focal length adjustment possible so a best average is all one can do.
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Here's how "Automatic" AF-fine tuning works:
On a tripod in good lighting condition, engage LV.
Focus, the press and hold the AF mode button + (halfpress?) the shutter release simulataneously, a message is displayed on the screen, hit OK. The lens is now calibrated (this is how I remember the procedure).
For zooms there is still only one focal length adjustment possible so a best average is all one can do.
Thanks, that's rather nifty ;)
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That would be awesome!
.. but the goddam D800's 10 pin port just collapsed inwards the other week. :'(
The 10 pin port collapsing inward is a known problem with early D800(s). If you check you may find there is a "secret warranty" in your region. If you haven't done so already I'd contact Nikon. There have been threads on this problem in various Nikon groups on Flickr. Here are a couple of links...
https://www.flickr.com/groups/1567431@N22/discuss/72157643680808984/?search=10+pin+connector+failure
https://www.flickr.com/groups/1567431@N22/discuss/72157631533186623/?search=10+pin+connector+failure
Hope this helps,
Dave
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For some obscure reasons Nikon designed the 10-pin terminal with just a plastic locking tab on the inside. On some cameras a play could develop eventually to make the tab wear down and thus allowing the terminal to rotate. This would in turn damage the solder points on the inside.
On the camera's first maintenance service, ask the Nikon repair tech to encase the internal part of the terminal in liberal amounts of epoxy.
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On the camera's first maintenance service, ask the Nikon repair tech to encase the internal part of the terminal in liberal amounts of epoxy.
How comes they always save on Epoxy? Pity!
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Can't have enough of that stuff - just make sure they agree it's OK to cover a particular spot with epoxy with later disassembly in mind.
Out of Oslo by now otherwise I would post a close-up of how the port looks on the inside. I have a parts camera ready for demonstrating the terminal issue. (the Nikon techs gave me a D3X in complete deconstruction in a plastic bag - comes in handy when I need to test stuff, for example, whether a modified lens clears the reflex mirror)
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Sten:
Thanks for the info. Could the AF fine tune be done for different distances, or would it only remember one distance setting? I might shoot birds between 20 feet and 30 yards, all with same lens/camera combo, so being able to fine tune at different distances would be tremendous.
I have newer heard of fine tuning for individual distance for an AF camera / lens set up... I have a hard time seeing where there would be any issue if the inherent design of the lens is ok...
Yes some lenses are better at distance or close up but for the AF to do anything like this is pushing it...
Sure it would be nice with focal length intervals and for an added TC or not ;)
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As it stands now with the "issues of focus accuracy" of PDAF I recommend keeping a small table at hand where various AF fine tune values are kept. This enables a relatively quick way to dial in needed AF fine tune values. Although Nikon has progressed on the issue, AF is still a bit confused when incandescent lighting prevails resulting in (typically) back focus. I've tried Focal and other devices but in the end knowing your camera/lens combo is the best and quickest way to deal with focus inaccuracy.
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Well, my D800 had this kind of issue where many of my fast primes required a different AF fine tune setting to get good results for different distances, this was a major pain. Nikon adjusted the camera and that didn't affect this characteristic. I then later on moved to D810 and this problem is largely absent now, as is the problem of wavelength dependent AF error. This latter Nikon actually acknowledges and advertises having been fixed in the D810 and the newly announced cameras.
I don't know what the cause of the problem was but it was not a small effect, it was considerable. Since it occurred on several lenses and seemed particular to one camera I didn't take the lenses in. However, I think this is something Nikon should sort out internally; it gets very complicated if you have to do AF fine tune settings for different focal lengths (the effect many not be linear between wide and tele ends of a zoom) and distance.
I find that in the lenses I've purchased in the last few years and newer bodies there are fewer problems and focus problems seemed to peak at 2004 (D70, yikes!) and 2011-2 (D7000, D800) and nowadays my kit works very nicely, even though I still have to fine tune some of my fast lenses. I'm happy to see some automation in the latest bodies for fine tuning.
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Sten , Peroo,
Many thanks. May not be quite there yet but looks a step in the right direction :) . I'll see how you guys are using it once you have them. I'm with Erik on wanting the zooms to record FLs.
Ilkka, I've noticed with the Df and D750 the problem is not nearly as pronounced. My D7100 is a bear and I bought it just for long distance. I think I have it dialled in and get very sharp then shoot at a substantially different distance and not there. Not sure Nikon can do much about it. I try to tune for a median distance and then hope ;). TCs also make a difference. At one point I had two 1.4 E II and two 1.7 E II and had them marked for individual lenses but that was with the D300/D300s/D3s. At those MPs it was not as big of a problem when I look back at images. I now often shoot the D300s instead of the D7100.
Tom
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My D7100 is very accurate, seems only my 12-24mm requires tuning and that has been a known problem lens at infinity before.
Another refurbished D7100 copy I returned due to incorrect register distance also seemed very accurate. Perhaps it would be worth to let Nikon service have a go at adjusting it, but only supply a lens with it that is known not to require tuning (or no lens at all).
Back to the D500:
If anyone has the chance to have a D500 in your hands, I would be very interested in an image of the focusing screen and the focusing screen catch as seen reflected in the mirror. A camera with a flash close to the lens like a compact camera etc. would be best to record it. It could give us a hint how different the focusing screen is from D7x00 and D300.
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Øivind, I sent the D7100 to Nikon, camera only. Asked them to test it and pay particular attention to the alignments and the mount. My cameras take some bouncing around in my diesel jeep on the dirt tracks even though I have pillows to soften the hard suspension. The service center I sent it to normally work on the higher end cameras and know me very well. They could find nothing wrong but, to be honest, I've not really tested it properly, lack of confidence in the camera :( . I probably should have sent the afs 80-400 with the body (the lens that gets used most by my son, his lens :) ) .
I will give it a good go and if still not happy, take the combo up to Mumbai and sit with them ;) .
Many thanks,
Tom
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Not sure this has been shared yet.
NG members might be interested in the 150 MB D500 brochure (http://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-YRYNeYvAi9beHK4x3L-8go_p7JUL6JpQM9h_9xTbwyw==/PDF/D500_Brochure.pdf).
With 50 pages and 150 MB, the PDF is easily the largest D-series camera brochure Nikon has produced to date.
rgds,
Andy
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Nikon d500 jpg @ iso 51200: http://imgsv.nikon-image.com/products/slr/lineup/d500/img/sample/pic_03_l.jpg
Whole set of new images from nikon: http://www.nikon-image.com/products/slr/lineup/d500/sample.html
Still no full resolutions
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Paco. It is in the broschure. Fascinating quality for a DX. Wow.
My D3 cannot do this. My D600 can nearly not do this.
Although I'd like to see the whole 21 Megapixels to judge the post production effect
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Oops, sorry for the repetition. I was very excited.
Going through the brochure now
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If anyone has the chance to have a D500 in your hands, I would be very interested in an image of the focusing screen and the focusing screen catch as seen reflected in the mirror. A camera with a flash close to the lens like a compact camera etc. would be best to record it. It could give us a hint how different the focusing screen is from D7x00 and D300.
Keeping it warm: Since this also was touched in another thread from one of the roadshows that are on now (image was provided for D5; no chance for a roadshow in Alaska though), here is an example of the type of mirror reflection image I am looking for. This one is from D7100 which is what I am interested in comparing to:
(http://otoien.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v17/p1678127533.jpg)
Notice the bump on the focusing screen catch and the handling tab on the D7100 focusing screen. I used my D5100 with on-board flash and 55mm f/3.5 to capture this image.
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I assume you guys picked this up but the D500 is delayed till end of April
http://nikonrumors.com/2016/02/04/nikon-d500-delayed-till-the-end-of-april.aspx/ (http://nikonrumors.com/2016/02/04/nikon-d500-delayed-till-the-end-of-april.aspx/)
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I assume you guys picked this up but the D500 is delayed till end of April
http://nikonrumors.com/2016/02/04/nikon-d500-delayed-till-the-end-of-april.aspx/ (http://nikonrumors.com/2016/02/04/nikon-d500-delayed-till-the-end-of-april.aspx/)
Yes, got the sad message from my Nikon dealer yesterday.
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I assume you guys picked this up but the D500 is delayed till end of April http://nikonrumors.com/2016/02/04/nikon-d500-delayed-till-the-end-of-april.aspx/ (http://nikonrumors.com/2016/02/04/nikon-d500-delayed-till-the-end-of-april.aspx/)
I think the reason given is actually quite good. The more preorders they can deliver to and the less bad press they get before the release date the longer they can sustain the original asking price.
As the first wave of interest ebbs away they can still step down the asking price and satisfy those "late adopters" who wait untill all issues are dealt with and the price has settled to normal street price level.
Quite rational for a for-profit-venture
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how i wanted to own one :o :o :o
i have played around with the D500 and i should say that they should have released the D400 because the D500 just filled the huge DX gap in pro bodies ::)
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A question for those who have handled the D500.
There is a feature on the D3, D3S, and D800/810 that permits the locking of the aperture and/or shutter speed dials.
Is this present on the D500?
I find that my aperture or shutter speed get changed as I move my hand onto the command and sub-command dials when shooting without them being locked.
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jknights: This is the only feature I miss on the D600. IIRC it is present in the D800-Series. It is easy to find in the product shots if the D500 has it. I need a full display product shot to tell, but did not find one.
I love that feature on my D3, esp when working full manual mode with manual flash dosage.
She does not have a dedicated "L" button though. Might be possible the Fn buttons can be assigned. How is it done in the D4 / D5? On my D3 I have the "L" on top of the left dial block...
Okay. In the D4s manual on page 134 they say that you can assign one of the function buttons to be the lock button.
On the D810 (manual page 126) it is the same.
D300S cannot do it, D600 cannot do it, D750 cannot do it.
So: very good question. Very probably : No.
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On the D810 you assign a fn button for L Lock
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Well until I can read the D500 user manual or get confirmation/denial of this feature I wont be preordering a D500.
I will get a D810 to pair with my D800 if necessary as I know that the lock is available on the D810.
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For those who are interested to see the performance difference between the different Lexar XQD nad CF cards in a D500 (please start at 3:40)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEUeRqA41E8
rgds, Andy
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8) Nice, pairing the XQD 2933x with the 2000x SDXC UHS-II, appreciate that the SDXC UHS-II is faster to process into the computer than the XQD 1400x never thought that way until seeing it that way. Thanks for the posting, now I know the pairing to put in the camera.
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Thank you, Andy.
Is Lexar the only manufacturer to make fast XQD?
C* does use CFast in their 1DXMK2. How do these Technologies compare in Real Life?
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I think Sony also make XQD cards.
The XQD will definitely be needed to get the best or most out of the camera for video and action shooting.
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Hi,
just heard the price of the battery grip in germany: About 525€... So in Germany the price with BG is about 2800€.
Harry
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just heard the price of the battery grip in germany: About 525€... So in Germany the price with BG is about 2800€.
All these are initial prices for early adopters.
Plus: Noone forces you to buy in Germany. After a positive Brexit vote the Pound Sterling will fall faster than Nikon can adapt their prices (and the UK will still be member of the Union then), So I guess I can get the Bundle of D5 and D500 and some lenses for a good tarif in the UK.
I bought the D3 and a package of other gear in 2008 when the Euro was at 1.60 US$ ... genuine US-stock for 700 Euros less than the price in the local store, all taxes paid ... International prices change all the time, the differences can be big, very big at times. One reason is that Nikon prices their product very differently in different countries. And I avoid the "gray market" totally.
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Isnt it nice to have old friends in a good place. ;-)
Just phoned Nikon UK and spoke to my friend in the NPS group.
Yes the D500 has the feature I want.
So Yes you can lock the shutter speed and/or aperture values by pushing on Preview button and then turning the command dial or sub-command dial.
Well done Nikon NPS.
I will go and place my order for a D500.
However I will have to wait for late April until it is released.
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Thank you, Andy.
Is Lexar the only manufacturer to make fast XQD?
C* does use CFast in their 1DXMK2. How do these Technologies compare in Real Life?
Sony is doing them a the sam speed 440mb/s, the new v2 series.
Bear in mind that the readers for these new ones don't read well the older XQD, but the reverse applies.
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Thank you, Andy.
Is Lexar the only manufacturer to make fast XQD?
C* does use CFast in their 1DXMK2. How do these Technologies compare in Real Life?
Frank,
as written by others, SONY also makes XQD cards. The new series is supposed to be as fast wrt to read speed, if my memory serves me right, the SONY write speed for their new v2 cards was a bit lower than for the 2933x Lexar cards. Combined with the lower prices / GB, the Lexar cards seem to be the better value for now. I haven't had opportunity to gain first hand experience with either, so please keep this in mind, that is only a spec comparison for now.
The old CF standard evolved in 2 directions. While CFast kept the original SATA kind of protocol of CF and moved it up a bit, XQD is the current successor of CF consortia. Please keep in mind that XQD uses a data transfer protocol which is similar to the PCI express interface (faster, lower overhead, less energy, more room to grow).
In the digital world, standards are in itself a competitive market. The one with the best value, simplest implementation, largest mind/market share, best roadmap to grow, might enjoy a competitive advantage versus his peers.
It is too early to tell, how XQD will progress. imho, they need volume. While the D500 is a good addition, to be really successful at the level of SD and CF, XQD need to be adopted much broader in the market, not only 2 cameras.
rgds, Andy
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Thanks Andy! I found that explanation very helpful :) I dint realize the interface was different.
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Regarding Sony XQD cards, I used a Sony XQD "G" series (Version 2) in a Nikon D4s (which I've since sold). The "G" series card is blazing fast. Write speed was awesome and never did the buffer get hung up. The 32gb card I bought, while a bit expensive came with a USB adapter/reader that worked great with my aging mid-2010 MacBook Pro which has only USB-2. The data transfer speed was very good given the age of my laptop and only USB-2. The Sony "G" series is just a tiny bit slower than the fastest Lexar, but not enough to get worked up about. I think the newly announced Sony XQD cards - "M" Series ???? - are not going to be as fast as the "G" series. As I already own one "G" series card, I'll probably stick to Sony when the D500 finally becomes available in the US in late April.
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Thanks Andy! I found that explanation very helpful :) I dint realize the interface was different.
You are welcome, Erik.
Here is the announcement text of the Compact Flash Association for XQD version 2.0 (with a speed of up to 1 GB/sec)
http://www.compactflash.org/assets/docs/cfapress/xqd2_0%20_140213%20.pdf
The XQD version 2.0 standard was the prerequisite for the speed-up of the recent Lexar and Sony cards above 400 MB/sec.
rgds,
Andy
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http://www.dpreview.com/news/0467323998/cp-2016-features-you-need-to-know-about-on-the-nikon-d5-d500?slide=2
rgds,
Andy
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D500 manual is now available:
http://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/323/D500.html (http://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/323/D500.html)
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All we need now is the camera, not just reading about it ....
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All we need now is the camera, not just reading about it ....
I have started seeing reports from people on the East Coast of the US who have picked them up already today. I am West Coast so will pick mine up in about 7 hours or so.
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Over here in Europe we seem to be given lower priority for this model. Nikon Nordic awaits the first shipment "in April" no date set yet. D5 has been on the shelves for a month, though. I'm on a special list so expect to get a camera from the first batch that arrives.
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Over here in Europe we seem to be given lower priority for this model. Nikon Nordic awaits the first shipment "in April" no date set yet. D5 has been on the shelves for a month, though. I'm on a special list so expect to get a camera from the first batch that arrives.
I have heard that Nikon Nordic expects some D500 cameras about April 24-25. I don't think the D5 has been available on the shelves here in Norway yet. Only a very few lucky ones have got one. Some dealers got nothing but a demo camera so far.
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Maybe only NPS members have received the D5, then?
I'm on the internal list of Nikon Nordic so if the 25 April date is correct, I should get my camera before I depart for Scotland on May 1st.
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All we need now is the camera, not just reading about it ....
plan to have mine in Scotia with a new telescopic optic 200-500
Today nothing .... but I was witness of the first Leica SL Telezoom being sold in Germany 90-280mmm
A woman bought it.
PS. NPS preorders were announced to my brick & mortar dealer for 24th
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Interesting to see how availability differs around the world... The local dealer over here in Eindhoven has the D5 on display and on stock already for a few weeks now.
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Maybe only NPS members have received the D5, then?
Hard to know. I have been on the list since January and expect mine tomorrow (if I wish to buy it), but am a NPU-member.
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So initial reports indicate a high ISO (6400) performance wrt. noise to lie between the D750 and D7200. What a bomb... ::)
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So initial reports indicate a high ISO (6400) performance wrt. noise to lie between the D750 and D7200. What a bomb... ::)
That doesn't sound spectacular to me.
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But it might still be able to produce pictures other than the usual ISO comparison set ups and "real life" test of tame animals and birds ;)
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Here in Tokyo, the real D500 has been on display at Nikon showroom for more than a month. The body is slightly larger than D750, but the grips of both models feel very similar. The live view response is noticeably more responsive than that of any previous models, but still not as fast as that of Canon.
By the way, one of the Sony factories that produces image sensors was affected by the recent earthquake in Kumamoto prefecture, Kyushu. Nikon announced that their production plan will be affected and that they are investigating the situation. The release date of D500 (28th of this month) hasn't been changed...as yet.
Nikon did postpone the release of the new compact cameras until July. But the reason was that they found difficulty in adjusting the software.
They also postponed the release of the compact cameras with 1" sensor for indefinite term. They say that they found the "significant" bug in the image processing chip.
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yes, i have been playing around with that D500 for some time now. :o :o :o
personally, i believe that the FPS could have been higher
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That doesn't sound spectacular to me.
Well usable ISO 6400 sounds quite spectacular given the more than double pixel density of it compared to the D5 plus finally a decent AF system with great coverage and tracking and 10 fps (which I do not need)
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yes, i have been playing around with that D500 for some time now. :o :o :o
personally, i believe that the FPS could have been higher
Which XQD-Card did you use???
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Which XQD-Card did you use???
not so sure, the demo unit has the card door shut :o :o :o
i expect at least 12fps from such a camera
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i expect at least 12fps from such a camera
Why? Nikon officially specifies 10 fps.
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D500 manual is now available:
http://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/323/D500.html (http://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/323/D500.html)
Hm. No silent mode then?
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So initial reports indicate a high ISO (6400) performance wrt. noise to lie between the D750 and D7200. What a bomb... ::)
The D7200 is class leading for high ISO performance on DX format, its quantum efficiency is already high, if the D500 is better that is impressive.
The D750 is also class leading for ISO performance on FX format, not realistic to expect a DX format camera to match it.
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If the design concept of D500 would be in line with that of D5, it might sacrifice the dynamic range at lower ISO settings to achieve more DR at higher ISO settings.
The Nikon designer to D750 said in the interview article that 6.5 fps was the fastest limit that could be achieved with an FX camera that uses the 7.2V Li-ion battery. So, I wouldn't be surprised if 10 fps on D500 is the current fastest limit of a DX camera. Considering that the highest frame rate of D2H was 8fps, D500 is doing a good job.
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Hm. No silent mode then?
The mode dial of D500 has both "Q" and "Qc" settings which I find of no use practically, especially the "Q" mode.
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The mode dial of D500 has both "Q" and "Qc" settings which I find of no use practically, especially the "Q" mode.
The D5 has a silent mode, taking 15/30 frames per second for many seconds of JPEG without moving the mirror...
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The D5 has a silent mode, taking 15/30 frames per second for many seconds of JPEG without moving the mirror...
Isn't that something like "4k still" mode?
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Isn't that something like "4k still" mode?
no, look it up in the manual. The shots are full 21 MP, but not RAW
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Images have a maximum size (size solely determined by frame: FX, DX, 1.2, 5:4) 5Mpx i.e. 2784x1856 in JPG fine. 15 or 30 frames/s for 5s max. Alle options (NR, distortion control, ADL etc..) are non-active.
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Well usable ISO 6400 sounds quite spectacular given the more than double pixel density of it compared to the D5 plus finally a decent AF system with great coverage and tracking and 10 fps (which I do not need)
I'm more comparing to the D7200 which has more pixels. It would have disappoint me if it's not better than the D7200 in the High ISO department.
From what I've seen and read it's a about 2/3 of a stop difference and the grain of the D500 is a little smaller.
If you downscale the D7200 image to the D500 file size the difference is probably more like a 1/3 stop.
BTW I'll get one anyway. :D
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No Lexar 2933x in Gemany currently. All backordered
uff. Found an older ebay buy now option from a reliable seller
155 for two 32GB.
Now I need a card reader.
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Maybe only NPS members have received the D5, then?
I'm on the internal list of Nikon Nordic so if the 25 April date is correct, I should get my camera before I depart for Scotland on May 1st.
I learned today that my dealer got 4 D5-s by the end of March (at sale start), but those went straight to the newspapers (decision by Nikon). Then they got two d5-s today of which one is reserved for me (Nikon's decision again). My next step is to go down to get the camera :)
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My dealer said, that he only received NPS priority preorders for the D5 --- name tagged --- hope my name is on one of the first D500
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To my complete & utter surprise, my D500 arrives this afternoon!
And here I am in the middle of a gazillion tasks and will have no time for days to give it a good workout.
I didn't think the D500 would be here until June.
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You have been a good girl then ...
Camera testing can be done in Scotland.
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To my complete & utter surprise, my D500 arrives this afternoon!
And here I am in the middle of a gazillion tasks and will have no time for days to give it a good workout.
I didn't think the D500 would be here until June.
Congrats and Enjoy! Please "reprioritize" your day and share some first impressions :)
I had the chance to pick up a loaner today but I am still travelling in the US - too bad :(
But my dealer called me, that mine will arrive on Wednesday :) So the fun with the D500 starts in a few days .....
Again, enjoy your "surprise" and w'd love to get your story and of course some pictures.
rgds, Andreas
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Andreas. While we are there. Can you post some more pictures taken with the big one into the other thread.
Esp pictures that show the good the bad and the ugly that the flagship can do?
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Andreas. While we are there. Can you post some more pictures taken with the big one into the other thread.
Esp pictures that show the good the bad and the ugly that the flagship can do?
Hi Frank.
Yes I can do that. I am on my way back from US (just sitting at the airport). I can post some pictures and share the g, b and u with the D5. I was just too busy to do much in fora over the last weeks.
Would have been nice to play around with the D500 over this weekend, but unfortunately it didn't work out that I could pick it up today. It's just a few days anyway when I have a chance to get first impressions of this new model.
rgds, Andy
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I am looking for a quick shot into the mirror box of the D500 that shows the focusing screen and the focusing screen catch as reflected in the mirror...
Like this:
(http://otoien.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v17/p1678127533.jpg)
Focusing screen and focusing screen catch of D7100
Any shot from a compact camera etc. will do.
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Hi Frank.
Yes I can do that. I am on my way back from US (just sitting at the airport). I can post some pictures and share the g, b and u with the D5. I was just too busy to do much in fora over the last weeks.
Would have been nice to play around with the D500 over this weekend, but unfortunately it didn't work out that I could pick it up today. It's just a few days anyway when I have a chance to get first impressions of this new model.
rgds, Andy
No pictures taken?
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No pictures taken?
clarification: I did take pictures, but I had no time to write (longer) posts for NG.
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It looks like the grip is very similar if not identical to that of the d750.
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D750: MB-D16 battery grip
D500: MB-D17, so not the same.