NikonGear

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Tom Gresham on January 28, 2016, 20:03:26

Title: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Tom Gresham on January 28, 2016, 20:03:26
I wasn't sure where to put this, so I'll just toss it in here.  I have a couple of older Nikkor lenses which are not AI. 

I'm looking for a recommendation on where to send them to get them converted.

Thanks.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: charlie on January 28, 2016, 21:16:31
I've sent a few lenses to John White at http://www.aiconversions.com/ with good success.
 
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Tom Gresham on January 28, 2016, 21:42:53
Thanks, Charlie.  Will do.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on January 28, 2016, 21:52:47
I anchor a thread with member experiences of converting the old Nikkors of the days before Nikon introduced the AI (Aperture Indexing) feature.

The purpose of such modification is to allow old Nikkors to be used on newer cameras. In order to effectuate this, either the aperture ring itself can be upgraded to an AI-compliant version, or modified  by removing parts of it to allow the lens to mount on these cameras. Upgrade kits are usually long out of stock for most lenses, thus the trimming and milling of the existing aperture ring tend to be required and for this task, special service facilities can be consulted.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Roland Vink on January 28, 2016, 23:39:15
I have a web page with information on AI conversions: http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/aimod.html (http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/aimod.html)
It gives a bit of history and a full list of AI conversion rings that Nikon had. Most are sold out long ago but some are still available on ebay and other places - my site has a few links to sellers that I know of. If you can get original rings that is the preferred option, it looks much better and you can be sure the AI ridge is in the correct place. Where original AI conversion kits are no longer available I also list some people who will do conversions by milling the original aperture ring.

If you find any errors or have new information, please let me know.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Seapy on January 28, 2016, 23:55:16
When I got my first D200 2006? I fitted my Nikkor 105mm f2.5.  I didn't realise they you DON'T fit non AI lenses to most Nikon DSLR's.  It was OK on my D1 but it jammed onto the D200, I very gingerly managed to get it off again and researched the issue.

Cut a long story short, I found some websites with the info and set about the prized Nikkor with my file (I didn't have a Dremel then).  The only really crucial thing, apart from making the gap long enough is to finish the right hand side of the gap at exactly the right place.  Depending on the maximum aperture the location of the end of the gap varies.  I found a chart which gives the data, I will try to find it again.

This is my rather rough and ready result it works well enough, I found the left hand end of the gap was a bit tight to get the lens on and off so I widened it a bit later.  I had neither a vice nor a bench.  It was done at my desk with a little riffer file, I didn't bother with the rabbits ears, they are in my desk somewhere.

For this lens according to the charts I found, the right hand end of the gap has to be at f11 1/3, as I have indicated.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1476/24049003933_ef8d7f181d_o.jpg)
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bill De Jager on January 29, 2016, 04:16:42
[Oops! I was thinking of chipping lenses.  They also do AI conversions but I have not tried that service.]

In the U.S., Legacy2Digital.com (http://legacy2digital.com/nikon/ (http://legacy2digital.com/nikon/)) is one option.  I purchased an already converted 50-135/3.5 AIS from them several years ago and was very pleased.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Hugh_3170 on January 29, 2016, 04:41:22
If doing the modification yourself using a Dremel (or similar equipment, e.g. the rather nice German made Proxxon), then do yourself and the lens a great big favour and DO GET yourself the matching drilling stand and table plus a suitable miniature end milling bit. 

In this way the height of the Dremel in relation to the table can be locked and stay fixed and this enables a slot of uniform depth to be gradually milled out.  I suggest about three to four cuts, each taking only about 0.25mm of metal out.  Mill out the ends of the slot as separate cuts, taking great care to get them in the correct place.  With care, a very neat slot can be cut.  Follow Seapy's advice as to exactly where the slot has to end for YOUR particular lens. 

Sorry if this is all old hat to seasoned Dremel users and afficionados. ;D ;D
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Seapy on January 29, 2016, 09:40:20
Here are my links to AI conversion info.  They may break in the future, I have used them since 2007, so it could be prudent to save the pages to your own hard drive so a copy exists, not wishing to infringe on copyright  but some of these links can be priceless and may disappear one day.

http://www.chr-breitkopf.de/photo/aiconv.en.html#ai_pos

This table is copyright of © 2015 Christoph Brieitkopf  and can be found in the above website. I reproduce it simply because it needs preserving and be available to those who need it. This is the only list of it's kind I am aware of.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1454/24566212012_6081a87ebc_o.jpg)

http://www.aiconversions.com/compatibilitytable.htm

And from Rowlands site:
http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/aimod.html

Of the six links I had in my AI  conversion Tech Info bookmarks only two are still live.



Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on January 29, 2016, 10:59:38
When I got my first D200 2006? I fitted my Nikkor 105mm f2.5.  I didn't realise they you DON'T fit non AI lenses to most Nikon DSLR's.  It was OK on my D1 but it jammed onto the D200, I very gingerly managed to get it off again and researched the issue.

Cut a long story short, I found some websites with the info and set about the prized Nikkor with my file (I didn't have a Dremel then).  The only really crucial thing, apart from making the gap long enough is to finish the right hand side of the gap at exactly the right place.  Depending on the maximum aperture the location of the end of the gap varies.  I found a chart which gives the data, I will try to find it again.

This is my rather rough and ready result it works well enough, I found the left hand end of the gap was a bit tight to get the lens on and off so I widened it a bit later.  I had neither a vice nor a bench.  It was done at my desk with a little riffer file, I didn't bother with the rabbits ears, they are in my desk somewhere.

For this lens according to the charts I found, the right hand end of the gap has to be at f11 1/3, as I have indicated.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1476/24049003933_ef8d7f181d_o.jpg)

For the Aperture ring to work on cameras with 'Minimum Aperture sensor' like on D200 and D40 etc. you also need to cut down the aperture ring to make a second ridge for that to work properly.
The sensor informs the camera that the lens is set to minimum apeture or not... Used for P and S Mode.

If you install one of Bjørns G-Type CPUs no ridges are needed, Since G-Type lenses has no ridges... Not always a good solution since the pre Ai apertures are not always linear - But not all lenses know that... ::)

IMHO the image show how to make a quick and dirty DIY hack that works on some cameras - Not recommended!

Some Pre-Ai aperture rings are a bit short for these mods to work like a real AI or Ais ring, they barely catch the aperture index lever on the camera, so a little extra care when mounting the lens will prolong the cameras aperture index levers life, it's a rather fragile componenet...
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on January 29, 2016, 11:08:43
At the very least, the leading edge on the aperture ring must be cut perfectly straight and normal to the ring, otherwise the metering will tend to be imprecise and/or excessive wear results.

A DIY conversion is better than none (unless you use the Df which can handle almost all non-AI lenses). However, for best results to a lens you intend to use frequently, do get it professionally modified. Or grind down the entire perimeter of the aperture ring and install a "G"-type CPU.Erik has done the latter on a few of my old pre-AI Nikkors, amongst them the original 35/3.5 PC-Nikkor from the '60s.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Seapy on January 29, 2016, 11:09:38
Thanks for the clarification Eric.  I don't pretend to be a lens expert, I just did what I need to do to make his lens usable on the D200, it's one of my favourite lenses.  In due course I do intend to chip it but my funds are limited.  ;)

I better not tell you what I plan for my Schneider 210mm...   ;D

EDIT:
Having re-read your post Eric. it seems I am OK...  I never use Professional or Scientific modes, only Muddle and Amateur.  ;D
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on January 29, 2016, 11:29:20
Not many things scare me re lens modifications - so bring on your Schneider project  ;D
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Seapy on January 29, 2016, 11:52:56
Not many things scare me re lens modifications - so bring on your Schneider project  ;D

 ;D  Working on it...  given we seem to be in a mail free world now, I am running out of backs of envelopes, and I don't smoke, so no fag packets to draw on.

What I would like is a helix extension tube.  I need to mount the lens ~250mm from the body flange to get down to 500mm (subject to lens). I have ideas... But this is straying OT. I will post in my Schneider thread later.

http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2637.0.html
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: David H. Hartman on January 29, 2016, 18:53:04
IMHO the image show how to make a quick and dirty DIY hack that works on some cameras - Not recommended!

I ground down one side of a 1/4" square file so I could file in only one direction at a time. Because of this I was able to make a much neater cut than shown above. I did this to a 105/2.5 Nikkor-P.C. I had a 105/2.5 AI and AIS to compare to. The modification worked fine. That said I did not like the process. There is a lot of chance for error. Having done it once and having succeeded I have never done it again and I don't recommend it.

If the lens is a classic in "classic" condition I'd leave it be out of respect for the lens. The Nikon Df can use most of these old non-AI lens so that's the rout I'd take. If it's a work lens, optically fine but worn otherwise I'd have someone who knows how to do it and guaranties their work do the modification.

That's my 2 cents,

Dave Hartman

Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on January 29, 2016, 19:46:48
A needle file is the right tool for the finishing strokes ;) They come in all shapes one of them is with no tooth on the side,,

The procedure for DIY using hand tools I use is:

Measure twice and cut once,,, Calipers and your eye and a sharp distinct cutting line and angle,,,

First use a hack saw if needed to remove big pieces,,, fine tooth blade for thin items tpi 24 or 32 - bimetal ones are now not so expensive,,,

Then use a quick running small power tool like Dremel the Greman Proxxon makes some amazing ones as well, I have both and the expensive proxxon is a better tool,,,

The trick is to use your eye no and with the Needle file get closer and closer to the line, when ever the little teeth gets filled up you turn the file on the side and tap it gently on the vise to whip off the tiny metal flakes so they don't scratch the surface your working on, switch angle 90 degrees from time to time ,,,

Now cleaning, water and soap before drying - don't remember to clean your hands as well,,,

Now test fitting can begin again use your eye,,,

Then continue, file, clean, test, file, clean, test and have fun!
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Tom Gresham on January 29, 2016, 22:12:54
After reading this, I'm reconsidering this option.  I have a 55mm f/1.2 Nikkor, but I think I'll just leave it as decoration on a Nikon F body on display.  I have a good 55mm f/1.4 manual focus lens that I can use.  Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on January 30, 2016, 12:50:50
A hack saw is of course not needed here for just an aperture ring ;) Don't be scared I just wanted to write up a general how to DIY guide! ;)
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: pluton on January 30, 2016, 19:01:22
Any decent local camera repair shop should be able to properly cut the notch in a non-Ai lens for reasonable money.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on February 05, 2016, 08:51:48
Just a small information re the aperture ring, the ridge you grind away is actually deeper than the F-Mount to avoid hard contact between the parts.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: richardHaw on February 09, 2016, 07:49:56
After reading this, I'm reconsidering this option.  I have a 55mm f/1.2 Nikkor, but I think I'll just leave it as decoration on a Nikon F body on display.  I have a good 55mm f/1.4 manual focus lens that I can use.  Thanks for the help.

Tom, I am going to share how I get even results with a dremel and a stand. it does not take a lot of skill, just patience and a steady hand.  :o :o :o

http://richardhaw.com/2016/01/21/diy-ai-conversion/

now, this will only take into consideration modern Nikon bodies with no minimum aperture sensor because I do not have to deal with them a lot of people don't as well but if you want to, you can use the same technique to shave that bit off to make a smaller tab on the aperture ring. you can use the money that you save from doing it yourself to buy an old inexpensive lens to test on. a file would work as well but the results that i get from the dremel is better.

and yes, just like mentioned above you would want to trim past the bayonet mount by 0.25 of a mm or risk compressing that tiny aperture tab. these aperture tabs come in different heights as well. my D7200's aperture tab is probably 0.15mm taller than what my D750 has! i know that it is insignificant but when doing stuff like this, you want to be sure.

Mr. Vink's site is excellent! i think that we all owe him a pint or two! i would like to treat him to a delicious bowl of ramen when he's in town.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Danulon on May 03, 2016, 21:12:47
For someone who is all thumbs: is there anybody offering to do pre-ai to ai-conversions for old nikkors - preferably in Austria/ Germany?


There is still this old lense set of my father's awaiting conversion in order to be usable with modern DSLRs other than the Df.


Thanks in advance for your help!
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Hugh_3170 on May 04, 2016, 03:22:43
Richard, the link in your useful conversion article contains a table as to where the Ai Coupling Ridge is to be placed as a function of a len's maximum aperture.  Many of the quoted positions in the table within this link are about 1/6th of a stop out.

This link from Christoph Breitkopf ( http://www.chr-breitkopf.de/photo/aiconv.en.html ), gives a table where the positions correspond exactly with those on Nikon factory aperture rings.  I know that 1/6th of a stop is not a lot, but if people are going to the effort of doing an Ai conversion, then getting the Ridge in the correct position does not represent any extra effort.

Christoph's table is here:


Position of the AI coupling ridge

The AI coupling ridge is positioned 4 2/3 aperture stops from the starting aperture, except on lenses with a starting aperture of 1.2 to 1.8. On these fast lenses the offset is 5 aperture stops.

Lens Maximum Aperture, with its Ai coupling ridge placement at aperture:

1.2    5.6 + 2/3
1.4    8
1.8    8 + 2/3
2.0    8 + 2/3
2.5    11 + 1/3
2.8    11 + 2/3
3.3    16 + 1/6
3.5    16 + 1/3
4.0    16 + 2/3
4.5    22
5.6    22 + 2/3

For example, the ridge for a lens with a maximum aperture of f/1.4, is to be placed exactly opposite f/8.0 .   Likewise, a lens with a maximum aperture of f/2.5, should have its ridge placed opposite f/(11 + 1/3) and so on.


Tom, I am going to share how I get even results with a dremel and a stand. it does not take a lot of skill, just patience and a steady hand.  :o :o :o

http://richardhaw.com/2016/01/21/diy-ai-conversion/

now, this will only take into consideration modern Nikon bodies with no minimum aperture sensor because I do not have to deal with them a lot of people don't as well but if you want to, you can use the same technique to shave that bit off to make a smaller tab on the aperture ring. you can use the money that you save from doing it yourself to buy an old inexpensive lens to test on. a file would work as well but the results that i get from the dremel is better.

and yes, just like mentioned above you would want to trim past the bayonet mount by 0.25 of a mm or risk compressing that tiny aperture tab. these aperture tabs come in different heights as well. my D7200's aperture tab is probably 0.15mm taller than what my D750 has! i know that it is insignificant but when doing stuff like this, you want to be sure.

Mr. Vink's site is excellent! i think that we all owe him a pint or two! i would like to treat him to a delicious bowl of ramen when he's in town.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: richardHaw on May 04, 2016, 04:15:20
Richard, the link in your useful conversion article contains a table as to where the Ai Coupling Ridge is to be placed as a function of a len's maximum aperture.  Many of the quoted positions in the table within this link are about 1/6th of a stop out.

This link from Christoph Breitkopf ( http://www.chr-breitkopf.de/photo/aiconv.en.html ), gives a table where the positions correspond exactly with those on Nikon factory aperture rings.  I know that 1/6th of a stop is not a lot, but if people are going to the effort of doing an Ai conversion, then getting the Ridge in the correct position does not represent any extra effort.

Christoph's table is here:


Position of the AI coupling ridge

The AI coupling ridge is positioned 4 2/3 aperture stops from the starting aperture, except on lenses with a starting aperture of 1.2 to 1.8. On these fast lenses the offset is 5 aperture stops.

Lens Maximum Aperture, with its Ai coupling ridge placement at aperture:

1.2    5.6 + 2/3
1.4    8
1.8    8 + 2/3
2.0    8 + 2/3
2.5    11 + 1/3
2.8    11 + 2/3
3.3    16 + 1/6
3.5    16 + 1/3
4.0    16 + 2/3
4.5    22
5.6    22 + 2/3

For example, the ridge for a lens with a maximum aperture of f/1.4, is to be placed exactly opposite f/8.0 .   Likewise, a lens with a maximum aperture of f/2.5, should have its ridge placed opposite f/(11 + 1/3) and so on.

thank you, hugh!!! i shall fix that as soon as possible (maybe tonight). :o :o :o
i shall update my blog about adding the tiny ridge for D80 type cameras. i did not add that since i was only thinking about the cameras that i have. i think it was erik who pointed that out. that thing left my mind as soon as i got my D700 ::) which is a long time ago
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on July 06, 2016, 09:20:49
Here is a shot of a 105mm 2.5 that has been cut to Ai just for reference
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: DougB on September 27, 2016, 22:44:19
To the OP:
I see you are in the USA, so you could use John White at AI Conversions.
He's in Ann Arbor MI & I have used him for several Ai conversions.
A great guy & you can em him with any questions
Last time I used him the cost was $25.00 or $30.00
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on September 28, 2016, 10:52:24
Please post a picture of his work, thanks.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 29, 2016, 10:57:48
To the OP:
I see you are in the USA, so you could use John White at AI Conversions.
He's in Ann Arbor MI & I have used him for several Ai conversions.
A great guy & you can em him with any questions
Last time I used him the cost was $25.00 or $30.00

Yes, I have used John White for converting many lenses and he lives right here in Michigan, so I highly recommend him. And quick too.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Peter on November 07, 2016, 18:29:05
I have done my own hack's it's easy but in one case my first lens I did I wasn't paying attention to the location for where the tab stop should be at. Example my Nikkor-P 105 2.5.
Photo at bottom, had to devise a tab and super glued it on (TRUE HACK). :-[
I also had my local machine shop mill my Nikkor-K 105mm and my Nikkor-H 85mm for $14.00 as I wanted them to be a cleaner cut.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: RonVol on November 23, 2016, 22:35:06
A friend in the Netherlands sent me these images of a 105mm f/2.5 that he purchased.
It by-far has one of the most elegant solutions to this problem that I've seen so-far.
As a machinist; I can say without a doubt that this is 1st class work.

Images are by Oscar Hoogendoorn.
http://www.oscars-collection.nl/
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: RonVol on November 23, 2016, 22:42:19
This is another somewhat elegant solution.
In this case on a UD-NIKKOR 20mm f/3.5.
I guess that not all lenses can be converted in this way.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: RonVol on November 23, 2016, 22:45:39
.............and this is what the modification above looks like on the following cameras: D610, F3 and an F4.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on November 23, 2016, 23:17:59
That 105 is just perfectly done!
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Roland Vink on November 23, 2016, 23:47:15
The 105 looks amazing. No screw holes from the aperture, the AI and EE-servo tabs look perfect, I wonder how it was done?
Is that a join line below the scalloped grip? Maybe the entire lower part of the aperture ring was cut off and new AI part was fabricated and glued on ...?

The AI conversion for the 20mm UD is good, and reversible. It works for this model because the aperture ring is very thin, not possible on other models with a thicker ring...
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: RonVol on November 24, 2016, 02:04:58
I wonder how it was done?
Is that a join line below the scalloped grip? Maybe the entire lower part of the aperture ring was cut off and new AI part was fabricated and glued on ...?

It looks to me like the original ring has been turned to a parallel diameter.
Then a new ring is made and fitted to the original with what might be a shrink-type fit. The new ring is heated slightly causing it to expand and then allowed to cool over the existing ring.
The other option would be for the mating diameters to be machined to close-clearance tolerances and then assembled with some sort of retaining compound like LOCTITE 601.
I like the second option better, less chance of crushing the existing ring.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on November 24, 2016, 08:03:18
Well if it was done correctly it's Silver soldering or brazing, very difficult but strong and as good as the original, even stronger.

The other option is two component Epoxy, acceptable but not good at impact resistance,,,
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: richardHaw on November 25, 2016, 15:03:52
I have always thought that Oscar was Swiss :o :o :o
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Matthew Currie on November 25, 2016, 16:23:19
That 105 is certainly a nice job.

The other one reminds me a bit of a different solution I did long long ago.  In about 1970 I bought a cheap Nikon mount 200 that had no meter coupling at all.  For that one, to use on my old Photomic F,  I made a similar ring with a meter claw on it.  Since there were not even any claw holes in the aperture ring, the added ring was clamped at the bottom with a screw.  A lot can be done with a good piece of aluminum.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: PeterN on December 16, 2016, 11:50:18
just wanted to say: what a wonderful and informative thread.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: BW on December 16, 2016, 18:06:26
I got this little beauty in the mail today, but I was not aware it wasn't AI-converted. How slim are the chance that I could get the AI conversion kit no. 39 at eBay? I am not the dremel-type ;D
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on December 16, 2016, 18:50:44
Chances are very slim.

Erik [Lund] can do it for you, but not for free. Shipping the lens back and forth adds to the costs too. I'd bite the bullet and get an properly AI'd lens to replace the one you just bought.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: BW on December 16, 2016, 19:20:22
Ok. Note to self; read add, before buy ::) I have a metal workshop at work. Maybe the guys there could help me out.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Roland Vink on December 18, 2016, 20:30:03
I got this little beauty in the mail today, but I was not aware it wasn't AI-converted. How slim are the chance that I could get the AI conversion kit no. 39 at eBay? I am not the dremel-type ;D
While some AI kits for other lens models are still available, I have never seen one for any of the pre-AI 105/2.5 models. Your options are the dremel, or trade it for another which is already AI. The AI 105/2.5 has the same optics, better coatings, same long focus throw and same nicely curved aperture blades - that would be my first choice.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: BW on December 18, 2016, 20:55:02
Thanks for the tip! The only thing that has to be removed is on the aperture ring, from where I mount the lens, to f11 and 1/3? Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Peter on December 19, 2016, 04:21:18
This is how I hacked mine with a file by looking at a P with an Ai mount for location at what point to stop. Or send it off to to John White at http://www.aiconversions.com/.
The first one I did I screwed up and over cut it between f32 and f22 and not f11 because I wasn't paying attention :-\ I had to install a stop to the aperture ring, the second one I did right..
This is a great lens although I like the Ais 105 the P still comes with me, they are built like Hand Grenades.
I love 105 lenses these old non Ai lenses are to be had at a decent prices still. The hood is needed during the day.
I have two P one K and an Ais I have not tried the Sonnar-type 105. The image at the bottom was taken with My D700 and the same lens you have.

(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk237/ramseypete/Nikkor-P%20105_zpsnov1bdeq.jpg)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk237/ramseypete/AbaquieNM%202016-07%20Revise-Edited_zpsg9duedmw.jpg)
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Matthew Currie on January 21, 2017, 16:05:06
Thanks for the tip! The only thing that has to be removed is on the aperture ring, from where I mount the lens, to f11 and 1/3? Or am I missing something?
The thing you're missing on this particular lens is that the aperture ring is held on with an additional internal spring that is rather hard to get off and back on without damage.  It's been some years since I did mine, and don't remember the details, but I'm pretty sure Richard Haw can.  All I remember is that it was pretty frustrating and involved multiple tries with a tiny tool to get it back together. It's not impossible, but it's not as easy as some others because of that spring.

The other thing, for which John White's site is useful, is the conversion to clear the minimum aperture switch if you expect ever to use it on older AF cameras that lack an AI metering follower.  The need for this is limited, but lower-end AF film cameras and digitals before the D3000 or so require more milling than the basic AI conversion.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Peter_S on February 01, 2017, 12:37:21
Looking at all your conversions I see that you mill down the aperture rings beyond the bayonet.
I looked at my original AI and AIS lenses and they have also a deeper cut out.
I have to check this evening that the lever of the DSLRs is not bent 🤔

I attached my latest conversions from the weekend. What do you think, should I mill down more??
If yes, there will be a lot of work for the next weekend to mill down all the converted lenses 😬

Looking forward hearing your answers
Peter
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on February 01, 2017, 13:19:10
All I can say is this looks splendid.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Matthew Currie on February 01, 2017, 16:25:30
Of the various ones I have, which have been converted in various ways by myself and others, a couple were done with the rings still on (ugly looking, probably Dremel work, very cheap to buy!) , which pretty much demands that they be flush with the mount.  They work fine.  The AI tab is just about flush as well, but all the ones I've seen also have a tiny bit of play, and for safe mounting a miss is as good as a mile.  I'd try the lenses and maybe use a little piece of paper as a feeler.  If you can put the paper in, you're plenty safe.

The ones in the pictures look very nice. 
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: brent_e on February 02, 2017, 15:05:20
3 more of my lenses went on the chopping block the other night - 16mm f/3.5, 50mm f/2, and 50mm f/1.4.  The 50 f/2 didn't get completed as I hadn't received the right JIS driver to take the ring off. 

Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on February 02, 2017, 15:29:36
What a nice machine,,,  ;D
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: brent_e on February 02, 2017, 15:37:36
What a nice machine,,,  ;D

she's twice as old as I am, at least! 
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on February 02, 2017, 16:46:24
Erik will dream of this machine :D
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: armando_m on February 17, 2017, 22:50:44
I'll have this with me by Monday ... this thread is most helpful
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Peter on February 27, 2017, 03:46:15
Aren't them old Nikkor's a work of true and timeless art? :D
If it last forever it's not considered land fill waste!!
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bjørn Solberg on August 04, 2017, 18:34:14
My first....    Cut thin slices  of my sofa leg until it fitted the ring(work bench), file and screwdriver.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Peter on August 12, 2017, 19:33:04
What is the sofa leg for? ???
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Steven P. on August 20, 2017, 23:09:58
Anyone in my area can contact me on Ai conversions. If I charge anything, it's little more than the cost of a modest fast food meal.

I mark the lens with an F3, remove the ring & flat file, close, then carefully make the match  exact. Long ago, I used the guy everyone recommends, but had to clean up what I consider sloppy work. There was also a local guy with an honest repair shop, (film days.) His work was more than horrible.

There are a few that get more complicated where you have to remove the stop down mechanics.

My opinion only. In the US there are now variances on truth.

<humor>
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: gryphon1911 on September 19, 2017, 03:51:48
Just looking to see if the consensus thinks it is worth the cost to get the following lenses AI converted.  My thought is yes, just for the easier handling on the Df...but what the heck I'll inquire anyway

55/3.5 Macro
135/3.5 Q
200/4 QC
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Hugh_3170 on September 19, 2017, 14:09:45
Andrew, it is definitely well worth the effort to get them converted.  It is not as if this three lenses are particulary unique or rare lenses. 

But why pay to have them converted - learn to modify them yourself - there are a number of examples on this site as to how it is done.  Good luck.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: gryphon1911 on September 19, 2017, 18:52:16
Andrew, it is definitely well worth the effort to get them converted.  It is not as if this three lenses are particulary unique or rare lenses. 

But why pay to have them converted - learn to modify them yourself - there are a number of examples on this site as to how it is done.  Good luck.

I think the last thing that any Nikon lens wants is my ham fisted mitts going to town on them.  I'd rather pay a bit of money and have someone with the proper skill and tools to do it.

I'll try and find the example on the site an see...but my initial thought is that I am ill equipped to do the deed.  :D
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Roland Vink on September 19, 2017, 22:59:07
Before you let anyone put a file to your aperture rings, see if there are any new old stock aperture rings still available. Some suppliers listed here: http://photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/aimod.html#new
Aztech Services have (or had) a large range of AI conversion kits that I have not seen elsewhere.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: basker on September 20, 2017, 00:46:25
I hear bold claims about 3D printers. Would an AI conversion ring be a candidate for output? Since it is plastic you could call it current technology.  :)
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Roland Vink on September 20, 2017, 01:38:48
Interesting idea. Pre-AI, AI and AIS aperture rings are made from Aluminium alloy, and the tolerances are quite fine. Would a plastic replacement made with a 3D printer be strong enough and have sufficient precision? Series-E and AF lenses have plastic aperture rings, so it might be possible.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: basker on September 20, 2017, 03:45:20
 
...Would a plastic replacement made with a 3D printer be strong enough and have sufficient precision? Series-E and AF lenses have plastic aperture rings, so it might be possible.

In casual reading I see 100 micron tolerance claimed. The finish is not especially attractive, but there seems to be remedies for that. You would need a UV resistant plastic that is not too brittle. Seems like injection molded plastic would be better except for the tooling cost.

Modification is not that expensive or hard to find, but I am reluctant to commit the original ring.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Hugh_3170 on September 20, 2017, 05:30:58
No matter how the lenses are converted, the effort is well worth it, especially if one is using cameras such as the D500, Df, D8xx,  etc  that have an aperture follower tab that can engage with the ridge or tab that the conversion process provides or creates on the diaphragm /aperture ring. 

I agree that finding a factory made Ai ring that suits the lens in question is the ideal situation, but these are getting harder to find and modifying the existing ring is often the only option.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on September 20, 2017, 06:32:37
Seems like some of the online 3D printers could recreate conversion rings given an accurate 3D model.
For example shapeways prints in aluminum (along with other metals)
https://www.shapeways.com/materials/aluminum.
Anyone have an out of stock conversion ring to try?
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bjørn Solberg on September 28, 2017, 17:08:49
Hi Peter in Los Alamos, sorry for late reply, but I had to wait for proper screwdriver. But here are pictures of todays Ai conversion of  55mm 3.5 - 32 Micro Nikkor - P serial 713439.

As you can see, in a sophisticated workshop, an adjusted sofaleg can really do the trick. I rinse the ring(and my hands) well in hot running water after visiting "Emil i Lönnebergas snickarboden".

I spray some black paint on a sheet of paper, and use a Q tip to put some paint on the ring after.

More questions? Just ask.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 28, 2017, 17:20:07
An ingenious lens aperture ring clamp for sure :D

The electricity setup in that tool shed appears a little on the rickety side, though ...
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Peter on October 09, 2017, 07:33:31
Hey I do about the same thing, had my local machine shop mill mine for $10.00 each they managed to bend my 105mm K lens ring I had to lightly tap it with a piece of wood still a tad out of round but has not given me any issues. The Nikkor-H 85mm f1.8 came out perfect. I wanted to keep these two lenses clean looking. But for some tosser lenses I break out the hack and file and Testors model paint and shoot away.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: richardHaw on October 12, 2017, 05:29:23
had my local machine shop mill mine for $10.00 each they managed to bend my 105mm K lens ring
:o :o :o
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on January 17, 2018, 13:05:38
Hi all,
I was reading your post and wanted to share my way of non-AI conversions. These lenses are so nicely made. I respect the beautiful mechanics and the labor of love that went into them decades ago.
Rather than chipping / filing away all the material on the aperture ring, I just cut material on the inside of the aperture ring, starting at the points as indicated earlier in this post and as seen on Richards and others website for the right aperture measurements.
I do this with a cross table and and high speed mill. I leave around 0.6mm on the top where the rabbit ears are mounted.

The beauty of this conversion is that A: you dont see this on the outside of the Lens once mounted, B: the rabbit ears stay intact, C: it mounts perfectly on a Df and D300.

So far I have done this on a Nikon Nikkor 200mm, 100mm, 135mm.
The 50mm f1.4 needs material to be added on which I did with some black putty material that is rock hard and easy moldable.
Any questions let me know. More than willing to help out. Based in UK.
If necessary I can post more pictures.


Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on January 17, 2018, 13:28:51
Two other pictures of how it looks once the aperture ring is milled and how it looks once mounted back onto the lens.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on January 17, 2018, 13:33:14
That is a nice clean look, never seen it done like that before ;)
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Matthew Currie on January 17, 2018, 16:13:43
That's nice looking, but I checked a couple of lenses and it appears it would not work for all.  The later 105/2.5 would, but the 85/1.4, for example, would not.  On that one, the AI tab and the outer diameter of the ring are flush, at least on the cameras I tried it on. 

In addition, what John White refers to as the "type B" conversion, to clear the minimum aperture switch on lower-end cameras that lack an AI follower, cannot be done.  At least as far as I can see from an N65, an N-60 based Fuji S1, and a D3200, all those tabs overlap the outside diameter of the ring.  This is, of course, a non-issue for almost all cameras you're likely to use, including the later low-end models such as the D3200 in which that switch is pushed down rather than sideways, but it's a consideration if for some reason you should ever want to mount the lens on one of the older low-end cameras which include the D70, 80 and 90. 

I like the idea, though.  The only unconverted lenses I currently have are a very old 28/3.5, which is definitely out, and a couple of 50/1.4.  Maybe I'll have to try it on one of those.  It would be a grand excuse to get a rotary vise for the milling machine, wouldn't it?

edit to add:  The 28/3.5 would not convert this way, even if it were practical to take the threaded-on flange off.  The ring diameter is smaller, and the AI tab overlaps the outside. 

This is assuming that the dimensions of the AI tab are similar between an F4, a D7100 and an FM10, which are the ones I tried it on.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on January 17, 2018, 16:32:22
Thanks Matthew/Erik for looking. Measuring the camera/Lens will for sure confirm what you can or can't do. I will always opt for conversion clean as possible. Great input Matthew. I am not familiar with other camera's but understand that Nikon did not have a standard design.
And yes it is a nice excuse for some new equipment.

The Nikkor 50mm f1.4 Auto S-C needs material on. I used a Epoxy putty (Milliputty) for this and shaped it nicely while it was moldable.
Once rock hard I sanded it to the required shape & painted it. See picture.
I will post later other pictures of lenses I did.

Again I only tested this on Nikon Df and D300 and can confirm this method works for my lenses so far.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: armando_m on January 17, 2018, 16:45:11
...

The Nikkor 50mm f1.4 Auto S-C needs material on. I used a Epoxy putty (Milliputty) for this and shaped it nicely while it was moldable.
Once rock hard I sanded it to the required shape & painted it. See picture.
...

Beautiful conversions !

I had to add material on the ring of the 35 mm f2.8 pre-AI lens I have. The aperture ring diameter on the lens is smaller than the other manual lenses I have so the ring was not reaching the aperture lever on the camera until I added a protuberance with Epoxy similar to what you show here, except mine is on the outside of the ring, this is on the D800.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on February 12, 2018, 16:48:27
One of the comments gave me the idea to invest in a turning table and chunk. This makes these conversions very easy for those lenses where you can take material off but still leave some material so it won't be noticeable on the outside of the lens. Again I tested this with a Nikon Df and D300. I have not tested this with other Nikon camera's. The aperture ring in the picture is from a Nikon Auto 135mm F3.5.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Hugh_3170 on February 14, 2018, 04:10:08
Not all non-Ai lenses can be Ai converted in this manner, but I really do like the subtleness of the conversion for those lenses that allow this form of Ai modification.  Nice work gentlemen.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on March 25, 2018, 16:56:11
Below a list of lenses I modified so far, in the way described earlier by me (not cutting through the wall thickness). Unfortunately Nikon is not using the same blueprint for the metering tab shape and the distance of this metering tab to the F mount on your camera.
The metering tab of the DF sits closer to the F mount ring on the camera. Clearance on Df is 1.1mm. Clearance on D300 is 1.7mm.
My method works on Df and D300 for following lenses:

Nikon Auto 105mm f2.5 (all versions)
Nikon Auto 200mm f4    (all versions)
Nikon 80-200mm    f4.5

ONLY on Df:
Nikon Auto 24mm   f2.8
Nikon Auto 50mm   f2
Nikon Auto 5,8cm   f1.2
Nikon Auto 135mm f 3.5

Nikon Auto 50mm f1.4 (add material, milliputty will do) see previous post
Nikon Auto 55mm f1.2 (add material, milliputty will do) see previous post

One lens I could not use my method which is the Nikon Auto 28mm f3.5. Here I had to cut through but managed to keep the rabbit ears undamaged.(this only works for Df as the metering tab just slides under the rabbit ears)
If you have questions please send me a mail and I will try to be of help where I can.
I am based in the UK.

Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: JKoerner007 on April 23, 2018, 06:39:43
That is a nice clean look, never seen it done like that before ;)

+1
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: JKoerner007 on April 23, 2018, 07:26:04
Shout out to John White of AI Conversions.com (http://www.aiconversions.com).

Finished 3 lenses (shown 2 of 3, below), sent there and sent back, within 1 week.

Put a strip of tape over the work, for indexing, which I wound up removing, but great service and works like a charm.

I should also add he packaged each lens with great care, for the return trip ... triple-wrapping each one ... and added a lens cap to one I sent to him without.

Nice fellow :)
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on May 02, 2018, 15:17:25
I Updated the list of Nikon Auto lenses which can be Ai-modified as per my described method. You can find the list in my previous post. Let me know if you need support.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Roland Vink on June 03, 2018, 02:53:22
This is a big thank you to two members here who have serviced my old Nikkor-P 10.5cm 1:2.5 lens. First to Richard Haw who cleaned the aperture blades, which were a bit dirty (the lens is over 55 years old). Second to Marcel who applied his unique Ai conversion to my lens. It now fits and meters correctly on my D600, while retaining its original appearance :)
This lens is an early model with 9 aperture blades so should produce beautiful bokeh, now that it has been Ai converted it will be fun to use it.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Erik Lund on June 03, 2018, 16:21:21
Looks cool, enjoy!
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on June 03, 2018, 16:55:16
Even avid collector wouldn't object to such a conversion, presumably :D
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on June 08, 2018, 10:13:41
Thanks Roland for your comment. It was a pleasure to have been able to help you so that you can make use of that nice lens. And of course I am glad it worked out.:-)
Enjoy shooting with that fantastic lens.
:) :) :) Marcel
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: pete on July 11, 2018, 08:53:19
I have a couple of John White conversions and he does a great job.  Have done a few myself but lately I have been real anal about getting the factory AI kits for my vintage lenses.  Most kits are gone so I have to find another lens at auction with the factory kit and swap the aperture rings or just sell of the original lens.  Fortunately collectors prefer the unmodified lenses and I have been able to swap a few out that way.   
Pete
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on July 22, 2018, 15:33:51
Another modification by me with a bit of fine mechanics. For the Nikon Nikkor 55mm f/1.2 I designed and made a tiny aluminium L shape. The 55mm just has a little gap between the bayonet mount and the aperture ring. The long leg of the L shape sits inside and is mounted onto the inside of the aperture ring. The small leg, here visible, actuates the slider on the Nikon Df.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on January 16, 2019, 19:59:03
Recently I had the opportunity to purchase an early Nikkor P Auto 10.5cm, 9 blades lens.  The good news: the optics were good. The bad news: the previous owner used apperently a hacksaw to do an Ai modification..... It was too painful so I tried to restore this.
Basically it was a kind of dentist work. I first drilled tiny vertical holes so my filling material could create a strong grip. I then build-up the wall section with more material. Machined the material down following the original geometry. Sanding, filler/primer/topcoat. It will never be like the original but it's pretty close for a first attempt.  :)
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: desmobob on January 16, 2019, 20:20:13
I just got five pre-Ai lenses back from conversion by John White on Monday.  (50mm f/2, 105mm f/2.5 Sonnar type, 105mm f/2.5 Gauss type, 135mm f/2.8 and 200mm f/4)

He did a great job and the turn-around was one week, including two-day shipping on each trip.  They all look good and function perfectly.  He is a gentleman, pleasant to deal with and I would not hesitate to recommend him.

Stay sharp,
Bob
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Roland Vink on January 16, 2019, 20:26:44
Recently I had the opportunity to purchase an early Nikkor P Auto 10.5cm, 9 blades lens.  The good news: the optics were good. The bad news: the previous owner used apperently a hacksaw to do an Ai modification..... It was too painful so I tried to restore this.
Basically it was a kind of dentist work. I first drilled tiny vertical holes so my filling material could create a strong grip. I then build-up the wall section with more material. Machined the material down following the original geometry. Sanding, filler/primer/topcoat. It will never be like the original but it's pretty close for a first attempt.  :)
Nice work - the previous owner should have sent it to you for your much nicer AI modification. I noticed that your lens has the extra little extension from the lower edge of the aperture ring, the so-called "long skirt" aperture ring. This feature is a carry-over from the original tick-mark series and is only found on the very earliest lenses. What is the serial number? The long overhang means there is insufficient clearance to fit on some cameras including the Df.
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: Bruno Schroder on January 16, 2019, 21:10:45
Great job!!
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on January 16, 2019, 23:06:58
Nice work - the previous owner should have sent it to you for your much nicer AI modification. I noticed that your lens has the extra little extension from the lower edge of the aperture ring, the so-called "long skirt" aperture ring. This feature is a carry-over from the original tick-mark series and is only found on the very earliest lenses. What is the serial number? The long overhang means there is insufficient clearance to fit on some cameras including the Df.

Hi Roland, great to hear from you.
Yes this is the long skirt version and you are correct the long skirt version doesn't fit even on the Df. I restored it in its original long skirt way and left it like that. Swapped an aperture ring over from an other 105mm (documented) for time being with my Ai modification to enjoy the 9 blades.
The serial number is 123632. Gold coloured lens coating front and back. Meter/feet. Lens made in Japan Pat.Pend. Seems you need to update your amazing Dbase :-)
Title: Re: How to get non-AI Nikkors converted?
Post by: MarcelvanEngen on January 16, 2019, 23:21:49
Great job!!
Bedankt :-) Any questions related to ''invisible'' Ai mod. let me know.