The new Leica Vario-Elmarit SL 24-70/2.8 made by Sigma?

[Akira]

The newly introduced Leica Vario lens is priced at 2,795 USD which is too cheap for a Leica zoom lens:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/0584150900/leica-introduces-vario-elmarit-sl-24-70mm-f2-8-asph-lens-for-l-mount?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

Then I had a hunch and compared the lens construction published on Leica's website:

https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL/SL-Lenses/Vario-Lenses/VARIO-ELMARIT-SL-24-70

and the suspected original: Sigma 24-70/2.8 DG DN Art:

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/lenses/a019_24_70_28/

Historically, Sigma produced Vario-Elmar 28-70/3.3-4.5 for Leica R mount during the film days.

[richardHaw]

members of the Church of Leica will still buy them

[David H. Hartman]

When considering the price of current Leica cameras and lenses consider the price of a Nikon F2 which was a hand built camera. If Nikon made the Nikon F2 today and built it to the same standards as in the '70s the price would be through the sky.

By holding mostly to their standards Leica has priced itself into a niche market. Nikon has lowered its standards to stay relevant.

Dave

[Hugh_3170]

Love this remark! 

members of the Church of Leica will still buy them

[Ethan]

members of the Church of Leica will still buy them

Church of Leica. Now that is fumy. Although it is more of a Cult than a Church or maybe a Temple.

The original vintage Leica lenses had a couple of unique attributes which was the Leica Glow and the colour temp rendition. This stopped being the case after the Leica R lenses. All lenses after that were "me too" copycat lenses.

BTW. According to a Physics and Optics Phd'r. It has nothing got to do with the optical formula but with the Coating. Same story with Carl Zeiss Jena lenses.

Anyone remembers when air bubble in the glass were sought after at higher price and later fell into desuetude.

Apparently it is called progress!!!

[David H. Hartman]

Anyone remembers when air bubble in the glass were sought after at higher price and later fell into desuetude.

I owned a 127mm f/4.5 Commercial Ektar lens with a bubble. It was a fine performing lens on 6x9cm format.

Dave

[David H. Hartman]

Anyone remembers when air bubble in the glass were sought after at higher price and later fell into desuetude.

I owned a 127mm f/4.5 Commercial Ektar lens with a bubble. It was a fine performing lens on 6x9cm format.

Dave

[rosko]

Very interesting fact, Akira !

Even the lens diagram is the same with the same position of aspheric lenses...

Do you think this vario-elmarit is a rebadged Sigma Art ?

The Sigma ( E mount) is more than twice cheaper...

[Thomas Stellwag]

Very interesting fact, Akira !

Even the lens diagram is the same with the same position of aspheric lenses...

Do you think this vario-elmarit is a rebadged Sigma Art ?

The Sigma ( E mount) is more than twice cheaper...

The Sigma L mount and the Leica share most probably the same glass. I have the old Sigma/Leica, Akira mentiones and it is not a bad lens. As well some elder R mount Leica wide angels are Minolta lenses and their 28mm shift lens is a Schneider, it is not new for Leica to rebrand other manufacturers lenses. I think they apply in some cases more quality control and they give Leica service on them. No idea how it is in several places in the world, in Germany Sigma service is excellent, so there will be no need to pay double price for a Sigma L mount lens. From what I read in  Leica forae the new lens isn´t worse than the Leica zoom, but the real fans say their 90mm is missing for wedding photography. I would be interested to see the difference to the similiar priced Panasonic L lens....has someone here got experience with the new Panasonic line and can explain why they are so expensive?

[Akira]

members of the Church of Leica will still buy them

I would think the members of Leica Church would rather put the new Vari-Elmarit down because it is not purely developed and manufactured by Leica, assuming it shares the same optics with Sigma's counterpart.

When considering the price of current Leica cameras and lenses consider the price of a Nikon F2 which was a hand built camera. If Nikon made the Nikon F2 today and built it to the same standards as in the '70s the price would be through the sky.

By holding mostly to their standards Leica has priced itself into a niche market. Nikon has lowered its standards to stay relevant.

Dave

That would be true.  But Leica products are much fewer made even than Nikon's and Caonon's flagship models and specialty lenses, which should be more influential on their elevated prices.

BTW. According to a Physics and Optics Phd'r. It has nothing got to do with the optical formula but with the Coating. Same story with Carl Zeiss Jena lenses.

Anyone remembers when air bubble in the glass were sought after at higher price and later fell into desuetude.

Apparently it is called progress!!!

Even if the optical elements are shared, the coating of Leica version should be different, because of the different standards for the color rendition.

The rear-most element of Micro Nikkor 55/3.5 with compensating aperture that I had contained a couple of air bubbles, which suggest that the optical glass for the element was so difficult to produce that a few air bubbles were tolerated.

[Akira]

Very interesting fact, Akira !

Even the lens diagram is the same with the same position of aspheric lenses...

Do you think this vario-elmarit is a rebadged Sigma Art ?

I don't think the Leica version is a simply rebadged Sigma Art.  The lens barrel and coatings, for example, should be made to Leica's own standard.

The Sigma L mount and the Leica share most probably the same glass. I have the old Sigma/Leica, Akira mentiones and it is not a bad lens. As well some elder R mount Leica wide angels are Minolta lenses and their 28mm shift lens is a Schneider, it is not new for Leica to rebrand other manufacturers lenses. I think they apply in some cases more quality control and they give Leica service on them. No idea how it is in several places in the world, in Germany Sigma service is excellent, so there will be no need to pay double price for a Sigma L mount lens. From what I read in  Leica forae the new lens isn´t worse than the Leica zoom, but the real fans say their 90mm is missing for wedding photography. I would be interested to see the difference to the similiar priced Panasonic L lens....has someone here got experience with the new Panasonic line and can explain why they are so expensive?

Oh, you have that Vario-Elmar!  When the original 28-70 zoom was made, Sigma was regarded as a you-get-what-you-pay brand.  But this particular zoom gained very good reputation in terms of its performance.  I would suspect that was one of the reasons for Leica to be interested.

Sigma doesn't exclusively design lenses for themselves.  For example, Olympus 75/1.8 for m4/3 is known to be designed by Sigma.  Also, I suspect that Panny/Leica Summilux 25/1.4 was also designed by Sigma: the Sigma's own 30/1.4 DC DN Contemporary shares the same optical formula as that of Summilux.

I'm not sure of the reason for the high price of Panny/Leica 24-70/2.8.  Because of the licensee cost and Panasonic's own technology like DFD AF, 480fps focus control, etc.?

[Erik Lund]

Not all product lines within a company are equal;
Just as a side note - I have visited the Leica factory and seen how they manufacture Leica M lenses. For instance the fine polishing of the focus threads is done by hand, mating the parts together by feel.
Not something you would see today at the big players production lines,,,
It's well know that Leica does business with OEM - I believe that is a good trend for Leica moving forward as a supplier to a very special niche marked.
I was a happy customer at Leica for many years, Leica M was a great supplement to the big Nikon DSLR's for instance D3 and D3X - However they did not compete wel with later incarnations like the D810 or D850 and now Z6 and Z7

[richardHaw]

Nikon is my wife.
Zeiss is my mistress.
Leica is the model i had a 1-night-stand with  (just try and see how it feels like)

[Erik Lund]

  Hehe,,, 

[Hugh_3170]

No wonder you are tired!