Author Topic: What is going on with Nikon?  (Read 10443 times)

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: What is going on with Nikon?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2019, 19:14:31 »
I don't make out things. I read it. See https://www.dpreview.com/news/7319905698/sony-bumps-nikon-from-2-spot-as-its-global-still-camera-market-share-increases-4-yoy

Nikon's market share is slightly below Sony's in value (revenue) and somewhat ahead of Sony in volume (in number of units). Canon are far ahead of either Nikon or Canon in either revenue or volume.

Nikkei market share data in units (article published in July 2019)
https://www.dpreview.com/news/4339026299/nikkei-reports-the-digital-camera-market-was-down-22-in-2018


    Canon 40.5 %
    Nikon 19.1 %
    Sony 17.7 %
    Fujifilm: 5.1 %
    Olympus: 2.8 %

Thus if you want to classify the companies as big or not big I would either draw the line between Canon and the rest, or include Canon, Sony and Nikon are the big ones. I'm not trying to nit pick here but there is a lot of exaggeration out there about market shifts and I would prefer a more grounded discussion.

In 2010 the global market shares by manufacturer were as follows:

Canon 19%
Sony 17.9%
Nikon 12.6%
Samsung 11.1%
Kodak 7.6%
Panasonic 7.4%
Olympus 6.1%
Fuji 4.9%
...

It is interesting to look at it from a longer perspective.

Quote
This answer does not agregate anything new, but sarcasm.

I was not being sarcastic. Nikon have not announced the new Noct-Nikkor as a product yet and there is no official promise of its release. It is part of a planned series of products called a roadmap. Since this is a showcase / specialty product of interest to, and within the means of only a small number of people, it is understandable that its speedy  launch is not a high priority for Nikon, but the quality of the lens likely is. So if they delay it a bit to make sure it is excellent, seems to me like a prudent thing to do.


Quote
It looks like you are a lawyer defending Nikon from an offender, treating him with disrespect.

I'm not a lawyer. I'm not defending Nikon but I am for accuracy in the reporting of facts and their fair interpretation.



Frank Fremerey

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Re: What is going on with Nikon?
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2019, 20:29:13 »
thank you, Ilkka
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atpaula

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Re: What is going on with Nikon?
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2019, 22:46:36 »
Nikon's market share is slightly below Sony's in value (revenue) and somewhat ahead of Sony in volume (in number of units). Canon are far ahead of either Nikon or Canon in either revenue or volume.

Nikkei market share data in units (article published in July 2019)
https://www.dpreview.com/news/4339026299/nikkei-reports-the-digital-camera-market-was-down-22-in-2018


    Canon 40.5 %
    Nikon 19.1 %
    Sony 17.7 %
    Fujifilm: 5.1 %
    Olympus: 2.8 %

Thus if you want to classify the companies as big or not big I would either draw the line between Canon and the rest, or include Canon, Sony and Nikon are the big ones. I'm not trying to nit pick here but there is a lot of exaggeration out there about market shifts and I would prefer a more grounded discussion.

In 2010 the global market shares by manufacturer were as follows:

Canon 19%
Sony 17.9%
Nikon 12.6%
Samsung 11.1%
Kodak 7.6%
Panasonic 7.4%
Olympus 6.1%
Fuji 4.9%
...

It is interesting to look at it from a longer perspective.

I was not being sarcastic. Nikon have not announced the new Noct-Nikkor as a product yet and there is no official promise of its release. It is part of a planned series of products called a roadmap. Since this is a showcase / specialty product of interest to, and within the means of only a small number of people, it is understandable that its speedy  launch is not a high priority for Nikon, but the quality of the lens likely is. So if they delay it a bit to make sure it is excellent, seems to me like a prudent thing to do.


I'm not a lawyer. I'm not defending Nikon but I am for accuracy in the reporting of facts and their fair interpretation.

I really don’t care at all about those figures of market share in the camera business.
I thought Nikon and Canon were much ahead of the others and was just surprised to read that article about Sony surpassing Nikon somehow.
Your suggestion that I made this news offended me.
I’m educated enough not to fabricate news, and to treat any other person with respect.
Aguinaldo
Nikon / Zeiss
www.aguinaldodepaula.com

Anthony

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Re: What is going on with Nikon?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2019, 10:46:34 »
Those 2010 market share figures look a bit odd.  What is the source?
Anthony Macaulay


Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: What is going on with Nikon?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2019, 13:12:30 »
I am sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. The DPR article is basically a Sony marketing message repeated by dpreview and it chooses to show only the numbers convenient to Sony and leaves out a lot (for example, Canon's market share).  It is always best to look at multiple sources. The Nikkei ertimates of market share at least include all the relevant brands. I think there is a lot of selective reporting online and often there is a spin to it. Now, I understand that a lot of people here are genuinely concerned about Nikon's fate. Personally I think they are doing OK, not as well as they might have, if some mistakes had not been made, but it's not a disaster, either.

As the Bloomberg stats show, Sony have had the second position in the market before. They seem to have lost it for a while and then regained it, though this time they are stronger in ILC than in the past. This should not be big news really, streets are packed with Sony cameras these days, and many people use their E mount products. In any case I think it's not a healthy state of affairs that there is only two strong manufacturers of cameras, a bit more choice is better for healthy competition. Now we seem to be getting that as there are more different technologies available to the photographer, with medium format also gaining some market (for a time they were outrageously expensive now the smallest MF cameras are comparable to the price of high end 35mm gear).

I think the current situation is probably better for the consumer. I think Nikon can do just fine with about 20% market share even if the total ILC sales decline to 5 million units per year or below. Most of the advances that needed to be made in camera technology to transition from film to digital have been made and I don't think a huge amount of spending on research and development is necessary to continue successfully in the camera market. From what I understand Nikon still spends a large amount of money on R&D and I believe they will remain competitive.

Anthony

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Re: What is going on with Nikon?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2019, 13:31:14 »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-04-15/sony-nikon-narrow-gap-to-canon-with-new-digital-camera-models

https://nikonrumors.com/2011/04/15/2010-worldwide-digital-camera-market-shares-by-vendor.aspx/

Thank you, it seems that the 2010 figures relate to all digital cameras.

The 2010 figures for ILCs are somewhat different:

"In the market for cameras with interchangeable lens, or single lens reflex cameras, Canon controlled 44.5 percent of the market, followed by Nikon with 29.8 percent and Sony with 11.9 percent, according to the data."
Anthony Macaulay

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: What is going on with Nikon?
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2019, 15:42:56 »
Thank you, it seems that the 2010 figures relate to all digital cameras.

The 2010 figures for ILCs are somewhat different:

Yes, both the 2018 Nikkei and 2010 Bloomberg data are for total digital camera sales (not including smartphones though.) Minolta had financial difficulty (they had been ordered to pay license fees for AF tech in court), they merged with Konica and later Sony bought their SLR business and I guess it took some years to get a foothold in the ILC market again after a period of difficulty. If I recall correctly, Sony lost some market share initially and then gained when they introduced NEX and the A7 series. I don't know what Minolta's market share was decades ago but they were the first to produce an AF SLR system (with comprehensive lens line) and were very widely used in the film era. Sony were among the first to produce consumer digital cameras and of course were a prominent figure in the video camera business. I guess the E mount cameras show a successful merger of ILC lens technology, compact camera technology and video camera technology - which is something expected given their heritage.

I don't think Nikkei have published ILC market share figures for 2019 yet.

Anthony

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Re: What is going on with Nikon?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2019, 18:27:33 »
I remember the first Minolta AF SLR, because I was an early purchaser.  This is an interesting article about the innovation.  https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/minolta-innovation-myths.html
Anthony Macaulay

Frank Fremerey

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Re: What is going on with Nikon?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2019, 22:23:50 »
I remember the first Minolta AF SLR, because I was an early purchaser.  This is an interesting article about the innovation.  https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/minolta-innovation-myths.html

I used my dad's Dimage7. It was rather slow but a very good camera apart from the glacial speed.
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

Me: https://youpic.com/photographer/frankfremerey/