D800 - v - D810?

[Birna Rørslett]

Moving the entire bellows thus having a fixed magnification and altered subject distance would be the better approach. However, as you are round 1:1 magnification, the practical difference against other methods might be slight.

This is a task well suited for an automated solution such as the Stackshot by Cognisys (or similar products).

[Seapy]

Thank you Birna, this is a conundrum I have often considered, not quite the same circumstances as a three dimensional subject but similar.

I tend to very slightly crop the image in camera, or occasionally close in on a detail.  I also have quite a few 110 negatives which of course need magnification.

[Øivind Tøien]

Thank you all for a good discussion. It all helps to focus my thoughts and resolve a solution.

Since I got my D3 and realised it has it's limitations especially for repeated night time exposures.  I get progressively worse banding using the intervalometer after the first few exposures. I have been trying to plan a solution.  The realisation that repeated long exposures lead to noise and banding has now sunk in.  With this realisation come a search for a solution.  The D3 was the first of a new generation, FX sensor and new standards of high ISO usable range.  Things have moved on, I can't afford new kit but have to capitalise on perfectly usable kit becoming affordable.

My enthusiasm for photography is  somewhat dependant on getting reasonable results, yet I constantly want to push the boundaries.  Achieve new things and to a reasonable standard, the best I can.
...

Robert, have you tried to stack frames using dark frame subtraction (the latter based on almost as many frames as the light frames)? That should help cancel part of the pattern noise. Also if pattern noise occurs at low ISO, turning up ISO can cause it to be drowned out in other noise (as happens with my D7100). DeepskyStacker (DSS) takes care of these tasks automatically.

[Seapy]

No I haven't taken dark exposures, for star trails, found it didn't work, for time-lapse (the first time encountered banding on the D3 and a huge disappointment) it gets complicated, in fact I don't know how you would apply dark frames to time-lapse, for Star stacking I have tried dark frames but although it seemed to work to some degree, star stacking process actually tends to cancel out the banding naturally, because of the sky rotation.

One of my objectives is to create a time lapse of the tidal flow in the nearby estuary at night with the stars apparently rotating in the sky above the estuary and clouds passing by, possibly illuminated by a full moon.  I have tried it but the banding is obvious and intrusive.

According to Ralph Hill

https://sites.google.com/site/starrylandscapestacker/capturing-images-quick-guide

He is now casting doubt on the process of recommending against using dark frames.

[Øivind Tøien]

Yes, neither star trails or non-stacked time lapse is a god candidate for using dark frames. For some sensors with good dark current suppression it is best to drop them, in other cases with a sensor more fixed pattern noise, poor hot pixel suppression and inadequate dark current suppression it makes sense to use dark frames.  However as it is correct that they can add noise, the number of dark frames should approach the number of light frames to reduce their noise contribution. Sticking to 10 dark frames is way to little if one tracks for one or more hours.

[longzoom]

Mirror/shatter slap, in some cases, could be critical for D800. I was trying to avoid speeds from 1/60 to 1/180, if possible. D810 is much better on this respect, and couple times only, I've admitted it with my D850, on the speed of 1/90, or close to it. So the image to illustrate what I really mean. Crop of 200%.  LZ      20161123-2016-11-23 014 by 20161123-2016-11-23 014-3 by longzoom, on Flickrs/longzoom/]longzoom[/url], on Flickr

[ArthurDent]

Seapy- How is the D800 working out for you? Are you satisfied with it, or do you think the D810 might have been a better choice? I ask because I'm thinking of buying one or the other. I wanted a D850, but the prices are just getting too attractive for the 800/810, $800+/- for a excellent used D800 and $1400+/- for a used D810 in excellent condition. I'm also wondering if the extra $600  for the D810 will get me that much extra performance? I'd be using the camera primarily for studio work and portraits/landscape, probably not for astrophotography. Your thoughts and those of the other members would be appreciated.

[Hugh_3170]

I have the D810 and mainly use it for portraits, landscape, and copying work.  I use the live view a lot for copying and for critical focus. 

Whilst I have neither owned or used a D800/800E, for an extra $US600 second hand I would say that the D810 may be the better option in that more of the developmental issues present  in what was back then an all new platform such as the D800/800E was when it was first released are likely to have been worked out of the successor model (aka the D810).  The D810 reputedly has a quieter shutter, better live view, and a better strengthened internal structure than the D800/800E.  Whether these improvements represent value to yourself is something that only you can decide;  for me they certainly do but YMMV.  Good luck.

[Seapy]

Seapy- How is the D800 working out for you? Are you satisfied with it, or do you think the D810 might have been a better choice? I ask because I'm thinking of buying one or the other. I wanted a D850, but the prices are just getting too attractive for the 800/810, $800+/- for a excellent used D800 and $1400+/- for a used D810 in excellent condition. I'm also wondering if the extra $600  for the D810 will get me that much extra performance? I'd be using the camera primarily for studio work and portraits/landscape, probably not for astrophotography. Your thoughts and those of the other members would be appreciated.

I am absolutely delighted with the D800, the colour depth, the recoverable shadow detail and even the recoverable highlight detail are far better than I have experienced with the D3 or even dreamt possible.  The time lapse feature is very useful because it produces a simple video file instead of thousands of JPEG's which then need processing into a movie.  I would have preferred X2 CF slots like the D3, I don't like the SD cards at all, way too picky and fiddly but that's life I guess.

The downsides are, I don't need the resolution, except perhaps for astro photography where it allows greater detail to be recorded.  The large file sizes and the increase in astro intervalometer stacks has caused me to have to fit a larger SSD for this current years images, up from a 250Gb, to a 500Gb, which is well over half full already... I am expecting to need a 1Tb drive next year.  And I haven't taken a picture with the D800 since mid may in Scotland, I have been so busy with summer projects I haven't had time for photography.  I feel the high resolution is inevitable and unavoidable if I am to enjoy the benefits of the better colour depth and greater dynamic range.

Yes, I do plan to get a D810, I believe the IQ is slightly better and there are other items in the specification list which would be good for me.  Longer exposure and more flexible intervalometer settings from memory. Although I have just obtained an MC36 remote which will allow me to use bulb on the camera and set longer exposures than I will ever need in practice.  I think the image processor is newer on the D810, which probably speeds up the processing but more importantly results in even better images.

An unexpected and wonderful outcome from the D800 is by bracketing the exposure, I have been able to copy many Kodachrome slides from the 1960's which were very poorly exposed, we didn't possess a light meter in those days. Bracketing and using Lightroom HDR together with the 'auto' settings allows the recovery of many slides which were otherwise unusable.

I have seen excellent, very low shutter count D810's for less than you mention.  I went with the D800 because it was bargain, I still intend to get a D810, I can't afford nor do I see the need to go the extra mile for the D850.

I am expecting to use the D800 on a bench setup and the D810 for outdoors and astro. I like to do long term time lapse and intend to start image stacking, so it means disturbing the setup when I need the camera outside.

[ArthurDent]

Hugh and Seapy-
Thank you for your detailed replies. You’ve given me lots to think about and you’ve got me leaning in  the D810 direction.

[mxbianco]

...
The downsides are, I don't need the resolution, except perhaps for astro photography where it allows greater detail to be recorded.  The large file sizes and the increase in astro intervalometer stacks has caused me to have to fit a larger SSD for this current years images, up from a 250Gb, to a 500Gb, which is well over half full already... I am expecting to need a 1Tb drive next year.  And I haven't taken a picture with the D800 since mid may in Scotland, I have been so busy with summer projects I haven't had time for photography.  I feel the high resolution is inevitable and unavoidable if I am to enjoy the benefits of the better colour depth and greater dynamic range.
...

I don't see resolution much as an issue, there are ways to reduce resolution and Hard-Disc usage.

For instance, D800/D810 have a native maximum resolution of 7360x4912 px (36 MP). You could change to 1.2x format (30x20 mm image area) and drop down to 24 MP. Or, you could use M or S instead of L QUAL mode
L mode: 7360x4912 (36 MP)
M mode: 5520×3680 (20 MP)
S mode: 3680x2456 (16 MP)
This will affect only the jpg, I'm afraid the NEF will stick to the max resolution (but you have an option for taking the NEF at a single lower resolution where it will occupy 9 MBytes instead of 30-40 MB, look it up in the manual).

There are also more ways of using the sensor: 5/4 mode, DX mode. Each selection will allow you to decrease the pixel count and storage.

Ciao from Massimo

[John G]

I have not posted on here for a long while, neither have I posted on any other camera forums, so I stuck loyal and maintained my subscription.
I am out of touch, very rusty, and slowly getting on board again.
I bought the D800E as my first step up the ladder from my D80.
I chose this body for multiple reasons, but I recall, one that has stuck, it was reported to be a very good camera at Low Light / High ISO, the noise in the images that I recall viewing were cleaner than some of the images I viewed from a D810, as I was mainly shooting outside of my working hours, low light performance seemed at the time to be of a high priority.
There may be differing views on my recollection of my preparation/investigation to to make a purchase, I'm all ears, as a D850 is a attractive proposition to me.
So receiving some thoughts from others of things that need consideration, will be good to ponder. 

[ArthurDent]

Seapy- I think you are right about the prices. After looking on ebay, I think I could find a good 810  for under $1200, maybe under $1000. I was looking at the prices on KEH and MPB, which are considerably higher, but ebay is probably my best bet. I just need to make sure I’m not buying a grey market body