The new Nikon mirrorless system

[Erik Lund]

I'm still very undecided on the new Z,,, Several points seems to pop up when I read about the new Mirror less Z marvels
Some of it seems like jumping over the bridge to get water or the Emporer has no cloths on,,,
Anyway that is what I hear,,,,


In no particular order;
Oh you have many F-mount lenses- we made an adapter that almost works with all of them,,, almost,,,
Yes, no old school mirror, there is an adapter you can use,,,
No mirror at all, yes, we invented a display that is almost as good,,,
Larger mount lets so much light in, no you get same aperture value,,, yes they are 35 and 50mm and f/1.8,,,
I never had issues with light fall off on the nice F-mount lenses, they are f/1.4,,,
I actually like a bit of vignetting often,,, correcting it on the new sensors is no problem,,,
The new focus by wire is almost as good,,,
Yes the camera is so slim because the flange distance is so short,,, yes the rear is really thick to make room for this and that and the finder is just sticking out so you can see the display, it has to because the mirror is removed, its mirror less you see,,, yes when you mount the adapter the lens and camera is of course much longer/thicker than a DSLR,,, but we removed the mirror, so it has to be longer,,, so the flange is closer to the sensor, so we can make amazing lenses, yes they are much longer than F-mount lenses, and larger diameter because the flange is so big,,, it leads so much more light into the sensor that the lenses can be faster,,, no they are f/1.8,,, There is also now possibility to make f/0.95 yes just like Leica M Noctilux,,, just much bigger because,,, yes Leica M is much too small mount just like F mount,,,
Noct has a display to show depth of field, that is none excistant for such a fast lens,,, it's a slice, a mirror less slice, just like sliced bred,,,


Damn I just want to buy a Z7 and take it for a spin 

[Birna Rørslett]

If the promised delivery of my Z7 manifests itself before I go to The Netherlands later this month, you are free to play around with it, Erik. I will be preoccupied with older lenses brought for modification any way.

There are some new 'Emperor's clothes' stories and myths starting to get a momentum with these ML cameras. For example, the myth that the larger mount allows 'more light' and therefore the lenses are 'faster' than the nominal specification. I fear we will learn of more  such nonsensical and fake news in the times ahead.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Well, it is possible there would be less vignetting at wide apertures with shortish lenses.

[Birna Rørslett]

That remains to be seen. The S-line 35/1.8 did exhibit excellent sharpness across the frame into the corners at f/1.8, but as I only used it with jpgs some processing wizardry might have happened in-camera. I have ordered that lens  so will be able to test it with NEFs and with all picture controls switched off.

[Erik Lund]

If the promised delivery of my Z7 manifests itself before I go to The Netherlands later this month, you are free to play around with it, Erik. I will be preoccupied with older lenses brought for modification any way.

There are some new 'Emperor's clothes' stories and myths starting to get a momentum with these ML cameras. For example, the myth that the larger mount allows 'more light' and therefore the lenses are 'faster' than the nominal specification. I fear we will learn of more  such nonsensical and fake news in the times ahead.

That will be much appreciated


True there could be an improvement, less vignetting, but to make such a fuss about it is ridiculous IMHO. It looks like they went for a a too large diameter to me.

[Seapy]

Excuse my sticking my nose in here, to be frank I know sod all about lens design but I don't think the large Z mount has much to do with legacy lenses, more providing an opportunity for the future development of larger exit lens elements (pupils?) so the light rays are not as angular to the surface of the sensor.  With FX and small exit pupils (?) close to the sensor the light rays must be at quite an oblique angle to the surface of the sensor. My understanding is that the light receptors see mainly forward, even at the edges and corners so it must have an adverse effect on light sensitivity, perhaps more with some colour wavelengths than others so a more perpendicular (straight) angle the better.  This must be an even greater issue when the exit pupil is much closer to the sensor than has been previously possible.

Vignetting isn't only caused by restricting the lens throat, the approach angle of the light rays to the sensor is probably more crucial.

Much has been speculated about a larger or even square sensor but I don't expect that, perhaps it can't be ruled out in the future when sensor cost come down and the technology develops. No doubt Nikon are expecting, hoping the Z mount will be around for another fifty years.

[Roland Vink]

It's not just that the large Z mount allows very fast lenses with large exit pupil, it also allows for lenses with large diameter rear element to be close to the sensor if needed. This might be to correct barrel distortion, field curvature, or to make the light rays more perpendicular to the sensor, to reduce "digital" vignetting or color shifts.

For example, there are plenty of wide lenses where the front element is much larger than the entrance pupil. Now it is possible for the reverse, the rear element could be larger than the exit pupil, if the lens designer wishes, to improve lens performance.

The large Z mount also makes it possible to create tilt/shift lenses with greater range of movements than before.

[Seapy]

Thank you Roland, much clearer than my fumbling, poorly expressed thoughts. 

[richardHaw]

I forgot who I talked to but the old 2.1cm may not work with the Z cameras

[Airy]

I hope that small (well, at least short), high quality lenses will also be provided at some point. For the time being, still quite happy with Df and AI stuff.

[Erik Lund]

Excuse my sticking my nose in here, to be frank I know sod all about lens design but I don't think the large Z mount has much to do with legacy lenses,,,

It's not just that the large Z mount allows very fast lenses with large exit pupil, it also allows for lenses with large diameter rear element to be close to the sensor if needed. This might be to correct barrel distortion, field curvature, or to make the light rays more perpendicular to the sensor, to reduce "digital" vignetting or color shifts.

For example, there are plenty of wide lenses where the front element is much larger than the entrance pupil. Now it is possible for the reverse, the rear element could be larger than the exit pupil, if the lens designer wishes, to improve lens performance.

The large Z mount also makes it possible to create tilt/shift lenses with greater range of movements than before.

Completely correct both of you, but is it really so that this is a big problem now? Don't we already have affordable glass that deliver the amazing image quality and we can with a quick raw conversion tinker what we need in PP,,,


The situation is that we all have tons of legacy glass,,,


Other mounts have emerged and died out quite quickly,,, I fear the Z could face the same unless the lenses really are spectacular and relatively affordable.


If they are as I fear, with various defects lateral chromatic fringing as some already report and f/1.8 I'm just raising my concern for selling off my F's and replace then with inferior Z's,,,


The New Noct Z Nikkor must be spectacular but it is more expensive than a 200mm f/2, is it going to be better re.:barrel distortion, field curvature, or to make the light rays more perpendicular to the sensor, to reduce "digital" vignetting or color shifts.[/size][/i]
?


Really, do you think so, will it be better? so I go; Wow it's much better than 200mm f/2 wow    I will be waiting 


The pro sport shooters, birders etc. will not like sluggish or unpredictable AF so it seems we will have a very long grace period or transition to Z, if too slow it will die out,,, Sure they keep the DSLR and F-mount - Rally vice decision as a fall back! IMHO


I'm all in for new Z and hope it works out 

[Seapy]

I forgot who I talked to but the old 2.1cm may not work with the Z cameras

It's on the list of 'unsuitable' lenses. Together with various other lenses which require the mirror to be raised... Seems strange given the apparent freedom of the large mount adaptor?

[Erik Lund]

PS sure Tilt Shift will of course have better possibilities with a larger mount- But I fear they will be huge pieces of glass, I think my 19mm PC-E is quiet on the large side as is

[Erik Lund]

I forgot who I talked to but the old 2.1cm may not work with the Z cameras

It was made for film, the exit rays will render useless on the sensor. Sure it will mount,,, Dremel,,,
That is not one of the lenses I would ever consider to use unless for artistic reasons 

[Erik Lund]

It's on the list of 'unsuitable' lenses. Together with various other lenses which require the mirror to be raised... Seems strange given the apparent freedom of the large mount adaptor?

For all the reasons you mentioned above it will not send the light rays straight onto the sensor so it's 'not suitable' in Nikonsk