NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Bjørn Rørslett on August 10, 2018, 16:13:56
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This is a placeholder for forthcoming news about the eagerly awaited new Nikon mirrorless camera. Nikongear will be in the forefront with hands-on experience etc.
For now, the thread is locked. It will open Aug. 23, 0700 CET
Until then, stay patiently cool.
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Tension is perceptibly mounting amongst the horde of black-clad Nikon officials.
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Couple of screenshots of the lenses from the Nikon Z event.
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Z Lens Roadmap
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Birna is pleased. She has ordered Z6 and Z7.
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Part of the reason is this
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Another reason is the FTZ adapter, that really transforms the Z cameras into a platform for any F-mount lens.
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The FTZ adapter should work with even the most exotic of F-mount lenses. It will allow the use of manual lenses with CPU of course, as expected. AF/AFD lenses will meter, but there is, again as expected, no screwdriver AF transmission, thus these lenses from late '80s up to the first generation of AFS optics will not do autofocus. Indeed, like they behave of most Nikons today.
Here is the 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkor on the FTZ. One can regulate the aperture from the camera's thumbwheel on the top right corner. In this case, as the lens is CPU-modified, nothing additional is required. For non-CPU lenses, there is the same procedure as on traditional DSLRs by diving into the menus and set the lens data there.
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The previous picture highlights a key difference between the Z series and today's F system. The film plane of the Z sits in the front of the camera, not deep into the body as with the DSLRs. Thus, put side by side, the FTZ-equipped Z6/7 juts seemingly further out than the DSLR, however, when one measures from the focal plane mark on either system, there is of course no difference.
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Now, how does the new cameras handle? Remarkably similar to any modern Nikon. Only the trace of flicker in the viewfinder under fluorescent lights indicates this is an EVF not OVF. The finder optics are really advanced and projects a very crisp and clear image to the user. There is no problem reading even the corners of the finder frame with glasses on.
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Now, how does the new cameras handle? Remarkably like any modern Nikon. Only the trace of flicker in the viewfinder under fluorescent lights indicates this is an EVF not OVF. The finder optics are really advanced and projects a very crisp and clear image to the user. There is no problem reading even the corners of the finder frame with glasses on.
Thank you for live Updates and direct first impressions. Many of have been/are leery of EVF performance. Although admittedly marketing speak, the Live technical presentations earlier from Tokyo laid out several poignant statements.
No 1 in FF cameras is core goal of Nikon... The pledge to integrate Z and F mount technology....
The new slogan "Capture Tomorrow" bodes well!
And NOT least - the FTZ adapter supports 380+ F Nikkors but as you point out NO support for AFD focussing. Ouch1 But the singular -ve in today's news :-)
Thank You
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Remaining Cool ;) . Obviously a multitude of questions but am initially very pleased that the non-CPU lens data remains in place. One of my complaints with Sony. I shall check this thread daily. Broke at the moment so no big rush but I may not buy the Tamron FE 28-75 at the end of the month :)
Tom
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The lack of support for "screwdriver AF" was expected and is similar to the situation for all except the higher-end Nikons today. There is always the possibility of another FTZ model that incorporates an additional motor to drive these old lenses, but this solution will be bulky and counterproductive to having a small camera.
Taking a coffee break now. The last 24 hours have been hectic.
In answer to a question not yet asked, "how fast will Birna have the review camera", this occurs within September when her Z7 arrives. There are only pre-production camera in existence now and they only deliver jpg.
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Would be nice if you have one at Photokina. :)
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The 58/0.95 looks just a little bit smaller than my 300/2.8 ;D
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Birna is pleased and order both... That is a very good sign. I'm excited to see can they can do.
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The lack of support for "screwdriver AF" was expected and is similar to the situation for all except the higher-end Nikons today. There is always the possibility of another FTZ model that incorporates an additional motor to drive these old lenses, but this solution will be bulky and counterproductive to having a small camera.
Taking a coffee break now. The last 24 hours have been hectic.
In answer to a question not yet asked, "how fast will Birna have the review camera", this occurs within September when her Z7 arrives. There are only pre-production camera in existence now and they only deliver jpg.
Yes given the trends, shrinking AFD support is understandable.
The other more weighty message I read in the corporate focus on Full Frame are the implications for AFD.
Thanks again Enjoy your cafe and rest
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Tech specs - what we have been waiting for:
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/lens-mount-adapter/mount-adapter-ftz.html (https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/lens-mount-adapter/mount-adapter-ftz.html)
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-cameras/z-6.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs (https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-cameras/z-6.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs)
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-cameras/z-7.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs (https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-cameras/z-7.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs)
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My friend Jan Anne and a good deal more people will also find the new 500/5.6 PF pretty interesting.
It is an upsized version of the current 300/4 PF and weighs less than 1.5 kg. Only 23 cm tall.
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The compact nature of the new 500 becomes apparent when it is mated to the Z camera. The balance is still excellent.
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Focusing speed of the new 500 was quick on my humble Df, less so with the Z6. However, the latter performance might be influenced heavily by the multitude of menu settings for focusing behaviour. Without a manual to read, optimising the camera is not a simple task.
Image quality was crisp enough and high-light blurs were rounded with ever so slightly touch of "onion rings" to them. Some tendency towards "cat's eye" into the corners is noticeable, although probably not that important for practical shooting.
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Just been emailed this. The Nikon PR machine is wide awake today
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/mirrorless-cameras/overview.page?cid=img_en_us:EML:MKT:2018-23-08:ML-ANN:2018-23-08-ML:na:btn:LearnMoreTop&ET_CID=2304539&ET_RID=326680845&SC_ID=0032400001G0FGdAAN (https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/mirrorless-cameras/overview.page?cid=img_en_us:EML:MKT:2018-23-08:ML-ANN:2018-23-08-ML:na:btn:LearnMoreTop&ET_CID=2304539&ET_RID=326680845&SC_ID=0032400001G0FGdAAN)
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Part of the reason is this
Wow, the 58/0.95 lens is huge, reminds me of the Sigma 105/1.4 ... :o
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Filter size is 82mm for that Noct Z. Nikon said it would be manual focus only. The VR is provided by the camera by default (5 dimensions).
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The Noct has a focusing scale so may not be focus by wire like the others.
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The lack of support for "screwdriver AF" was expected and is similar to the situation for all except the higher-end Nikons today. There is always the possibility of another FTZ model that incorporates an additional motor to drive these old lenses, but this solution will be bulky and counterproductive to having a small camera.
I agree that it may be impractical to put the AF motor in the adapter and AF performance on mirrorless would likely not be good.
However, all the previous Nikon FX models have had the AF motor in the body.
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There is no mechanical linkage in the Z cameras. All is electronic.
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An excerpt of the Nikon blurb describing the new camera follow. For technies out there, there is a lot of details to be absorbed and contemplated.
<start>
Z 7 and Z 6 product overview
The Z 7 and Z 6 are equipped with a new backside illumination full-frame, Nikon FX-format CMOS sensor with built-in focal-plane phase-detection AF and the latest image-processing engine, EXPEED 6.
The Z 7 has 45.7 effective megapixels, and supports a standard sensitivity range of ISO 64–25600. In combination with NIKKOR Z lenses, the camera achieves an outstanding level of sharpness and detail, all the way to the edges of the image.
The Z 6 is an all-purpose FX-format camera with an effective pixel count of 24.5 megapixels, and supports the wide range of ISO 100–51200 standard sensitivities. With superior performance at high sensitivities and full-frame 4K UHD movie recording with full pixel readout, the Z 6 responds to a variety of needs, such as shooting in dimly lit environments, and movie recording.
Primary features of the Z 7 and Z 6
1. Equipped with a new backside illumination Nikon FX-format CMOS sensor with built-in focal-plane phase-detection AF
A backside illumination CMOS sensor, with built-in focal-plane phase-detection AF points, has been adopted for both the Z 7 and the Z 6. The Z 7 has an effective pixel count of 45.7 megapixels, and supports ISO 64–25600 range of standard sensitivities (reduction to the equivalent of ISO 32 and expansion to the equivalent of ISO 102400 is also possible). The Z 6has an effective pixel count of 24.5 megapixels, and supports a broad range of standard sensitivities, from ISO 100–51200 (additional reduction to the equivalent of ISO 50 and expansion to the equivalent of ISO 204800).
2. A hybrid AF system with focus points covering approximately 90% of the imaging area
The Z 7 has 493 focus points* and the Z 6 has 273, enabling broad coverage of approximately 90% of the imaging area both horizontally and vertically. This hybrid AF system uses an algorithm optimised for the FX-format sensor, to automatically switch between focal-plane phase-detection AF and contrast-detect AF with focusing. The use of NIKKOR Z lenses further maximises AF accuracy with both still images and movies.
*With FX (36×24) image area and single-point AF enabled.
3. The new EXPEED 6 image-processing engine for sharp and clear imaging and new functions that support creative expression
The Z 7 and Z 6 are equipped with the new EXPEED 6 image-processing engine. Employing the superior resolving power of NIKKOR Z and NIKKOR F mount lenses, subjects are rendered more sharply than ever before. Noise is also effectively reduced.
Additionally, a mid-range sharpening option has been added to Picture Control sharpness parameters. This option, along with existing sharpening and clarity parameters, allows users to make various textures within the screen sharper or softer, for both still images and movies*. The cameras also offer 20 options of Creative Picture Control, supporting creative expression. The effect level is adjustable from 0 to 100.
*Mid-range sharpness adjustment is only possible at “High quality” movie setting.
4. An electronic viewfinder that utilises Nikon's superior optical and image-processing technologies to offer a clear and natural view
The electronic viewfinder adopted for the Z 7 and Z 6 is comfortable and easy to use, comparable to optical viewfinders. Both cameras are equipped with an electronic viewfinder for which an approximately 3,690k-dot OLED panel has been adopted. The electronic viewfinder has, respectively, frame coverage and magnification of approximately 100% and 0.8×, as well as an approximately 37.0° diagonal viewing angle. It draws on Nikon's superior optical technologies and image-processing technologies, ensuring a clear and comfortable view comparable to that of optical viewfinders, with reduced aberration and minimum eyestrain, even during extended shoots. Furthermore, a fluorine coat that effectively repels dirt has been applied to the eyepiece protection window. In addition, the <i> menu can be displayed in the electronic viewfinder, allowing users to quickly view and adjust a variety of shooting settings, including ISO sensitivity, AF-area mode, and Picture Control, all while looking through the viewfinder.
5. An ergonomic design unique to Nikon that enables intuitive operation
The Z 7 and Z 6 have inherited the superior operability that Nikon has cultivated over the years through its development of cameras. The bodies are compact, while boasting a firm grip that is easy to hold, and buttons such as that for the subselector, AF-ON, ISO, and exposure compensation are all placed so that they can be operated swiftly and easily. Additionally, a display panel has been placed on the top part of the camera, where information about settings can be displayed, same as with high-end digital SLR camera models.
6. Movie functions such as 10-bit N-Log that enables wide dynamic range, and timecoding that respond to professional needs
The Z 7 and Z 6 support recording of not only full-frame 4K UHD (3840 × 2160)/30p movies using the FX-based movie format, but also full-HD/120p movies. Sharper 4K UHD movies are made possible, using the full-pixel readout.*1 Additionally, Active D-Lighting, electronic vibration reduction, and focus peaking can be used with 4K UHD and full-HD movie recording. Nikon’s original N-Log can also be used with 10-bit*2 HDMI output. The cameras utilise extensive colour depth and twelve-stop, 1,300% dynamic range to record*3 a wealth of tone information from highlights and shadows for more effective colour grading. Timecode support makes synchronising video and sound to footage recorded across multiple devices easier. Additionally, the control ring built into NIKKOR Z lenses can be used to quietly and smoothly adjust settings such as aperture and exposure compensation.
*1 Excluding FX base movie format for the Z 7
*2 Simultaneous recording of 4K UHD movies with 10-bit output to the camera's memory card is not possible.
*3Not available when shooting slow-motion movies. .
7. Nikon's first*1 in-camera vibration reduction with approx. 5.0-stop*2 effectiveness
The Z 7 and Z 6 are equipped with in-camera vibration reduction (VR). The VR unit provides compensation for movement along five axes. The effects of vibration reduction are equivalent to a shutter speed increase of approximately 5.0 stops*1. This function can also be used effectively with NIKKOR F lenses, including those not equipped with a VR function, with the FTZ mount adapter (sold separately)*3.
*1 Among interchangeable-lens cameras
*2 Measured in accordance with CIPA standards (using the NIKKOR Z 24-70mm f/4 S at the telephoto zoom position).
*3 The level of compensation achieved when a NIKKOR F mount lens is used is not as high as when a NIKKOR Z lens is used.
8. Other features
• Operation system that is inherited from Nikon digital SLR cameras enables intuitive operation of buttons and switches
• Same level of strength and durability, as well as dust- and drip- resistance, as the Nikon D850, offered in a compact body
• An 8.0-cm 3.2-in., approximately 2,100k-dot touch-sensitive LCD monitor, with a tilting mechanism
• Silent photography eliminates shake and noise caused by shutter release. A new peaking stack image function*1 allows the user to confirm the correct settings after focus shift shooting. A simulated monochrome image using focus peaking technology emulates how the depth of field will look after all images are combined to a focus stack in editing software*2
• High-speed continuous shooting (extended)*3 at approximately 9 fps (Z 7) and 12 fps (Z 6) captures fast motion
• Interval timer photography that makes 8K (Z 7) time-lapse movie creation*2 possible
• An extended low-light metering range*4 allows users to easily capture scenes such as the transition from sunset to starry night sky, using auto exposure
• Built-in Wi-Fi® for direct connection to a smart device using SnapBridge
• Built-in Wi-Fi® makes the transfer of images and movies to a computer possible
• Support for existing digital SLR camera accessories such as the WT-7 wireless transmitter (available separately) for transferring images and movies at high speed over a wired or wireless LAN, and radio-controlled Advanced Wireless Lighting, which makes flexible multi-flash photography possible
*1 Can only be confirmed using the camera with which focus shift was performed.
*2 Third-party software is required.
*3 Continuous H (extended) in 12-bit RAW, JPEG, or TIFF format
*4 With interval timer shooting or time-lapse movie recording with silent photography and exposure smoothing enabled.
Development of the MB-N10 Battery Pack
The MB-N10 battery pack that is currently in development will hold two EN-EL15b rechargeable Li-ion batteries, effectively increasing the number of shots possible and/or movie recording time by approximately 1.8×. It will provide the same level of dust and drip resistance as the Z 7 and Z 6, and will support USB charging using the EH-7P charging AC adapter.
Information regarding the release of this product will be announced at a later date.
<end>
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I sometimes question the competency of marketing department managers.
The lens roadmap show no long tele lenses at all for the next 3 or more years.
The 500/5.6 PF is a totally new design, and being so small, I would have thought a perfect lens design to have the lens design team create parallel samples for both the F mount(a commonly asked for lens type) AND a native Z mount.
The biggest criticism of the other mirrorless 135 format system has always been the lack of long tele lenses for their system.
So in Nikon's case, for them to not concurrently design a Z mount version of the 500/5.6 makes absolutely no sense.
How much harder would it have been to have designed a Z mount version of this lens as well?
Basically: their action implies that Nikon is going to be heavily reliant on the FTZ for Z mount owners to mount long tele lenses .. for how long?
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The implication at present is that most people will not plunk down thousands of $$ to buy yet another long lens for a new system. One should be aware that the FTZ effectively turns the Z camera into an equivalent DSLR in terms of what optics can be handled, with very few limitations and for current Nikkors, none at all. The adapter mounts solid as a rock, no wobbling at all partly thanks to a robust construction and the very wide mounting base. In fact I was surprised how "native F" it appeared when put on the Z6/7.
Until the Z has become the dominating Nikon, we will likely not see parallel development of really long lenses. Sooner or later the focal point of development will be on Z Nikkors, but at present the perceived need is for short native lenses not the long cannons. I expect a lot of users will run F- and Z-systems concurrently, like I plan to do. Then the maximum of interoperability is using FTZ so most lenses can be used on either system, plus having a bread-and-butter lens on the Z.
Long lenses can be easily designed for both systems, though. Sooner or later there will be a divide, but no predictions for when that paradigm shift will occur is possible today. Meanwhile, put the FTZ on your long Nikkor and enjoy it on a Z.
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The implication at present is that most people will not plunk down thousands of $$ to buy yet another long lens for a new system. One should be aware that the FTZ effectively turns the Z camera into an equivalent DSLR in terms of what optics can be handled, with very few limitations and for current Nikkors, none at all. The adapter mounts solid as a rock, no wobbling at all partly thanks to a robust construction and the very wide mounting base. In fact I was surprised how "native F" it appeared when put on the Z6/7.
Until the Z has become the dominating Nikon, we will likely not see parallel development of really long lenses. Sooner or later the focal point of development will be on Z Nikkors, but at present the perceived need is for short native lenses not the long cannons. I expect a lot of users will run F- and Z-systems concurrently, like I plan to do. Then the maximum of interoperability is using FTZ so most lenses can be used on either system, plus having a bread-and-butter lens on the Z.
Long lenses can be easily designed for both systems, though. Sooner or later there will be a divide, but no predictions for when that paradigm shift will occur is possible today. Meanwhile, put the FTZ on your long Nikkor and enjoy it on a Z.
I agree on strategy on long lenses. But cannot understand how a Z-Nikkor can be used on a DSLR? Impossible surely. The adapters can only work F > Z
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A new era has begun!
Congratulations on the new twins! ;)
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I agree on strategy on long lenses. But cannot understand how a Z-Nikkor can be used on a DSLR? Impossible surely. The adapters can only work F > Z
That was my point, exactly. The maximum of flexibility will be using existing F lenses on a DSLR, and on the Z via the adapter. Later on adding native Z Nikkors for uses not fully covered by the current lenses in your arsenal, or when maximum compatibility on Z is desirable.
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The FTZ adapter should work with even the most exotic of F-mount lenses. It will allow the use of manual lenses with CPU of course, as expected. AF/AFD lenses will meter, but there is, again as expected, no screwdriver AF transmission, thus these lenses from late '80s up to the first generation of AFS optics will not do autofocus. Indeed, like they behave of most Nikons today.
Here is the 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkor on the FTZ. One can regulate the aperture from the camera's thumbwheel on the top right corner. In this case, as the lens is CPU-modified, nothing additional is required. For non-CPU lenses, there is the same procedure as on traditional DSLRs by diving into the menus and set the lens data there.
How does it work if no Ai tab is present? Thinking of non CPU modified lenses.
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5 pages of Z7 SPECIFICATIONS ARE HERE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ne5ay3opb4d0z50/Nikon%20Z%207%20specifications.pdf?dl=0
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Looks like a full magnesium chassis, although its difficult to tell since the Z-mount is on top, but sure looks like they did it well!
Z6
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still hoping that we get a cheaper version with no EVF :o :o :o
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Part of the reason is this
Wow - Looks like they went all in for the new Z-Noct-Nikkor :o
Tripod mount on a 50mm must be video applications they want to rival Zeiss in that market apparently
Much larger than Leica M 50mm f/0.95,,, it's only 60mm filter thread size,,,
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5 pages of Z7 SPECIFICATIONS ARE HERE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ne5ay3opb4d0z50/Nikon%20Z%207%20specifications.pdf?dl=0
51 page brochure - There's much more detail in here on the new AF etc. Just picked up on pg 41 that "the focus distance indicator [function] at the bottom of the display shows where focus is obtained, between infinity and the minimum range...." is restricted to Z-Nikkors only
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Looks like a full magnesium chassis, although its difficult to tell since the Z-mount is on top, but sure looks like they did it well!
Z6
The Nikon reps stressed the all-magnesium chassis a lot.
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The Nikon reps stressed the all-magnesium chassis a lot.
Great news
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Another reason is the FTZ adapter, that really transforms the Z cameras into a platform for any F-mount lens.
This adapter functionality gives you/us all the freedom in the world to adapt every piece of glass onto the new Z-cameras not only Nikkor legacy lenses, well done indeed.
All you need to do now is to strip the cover glass off the sensor on the Z6 8)
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This adapter functionality gives you/us all the freedom in the world to adapt every piece of glass onto the new Z-cameras not only Nikkor legacy lenses, well done indeed.
All you need to do now is to strip the cover glass off the sensor on the Z6 8)
It is clear the path to telephotos will rely on F-Nikkors, which many of us will find reassuring :-)
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Now, how does the new cameras handle? Remarkably similar to any modern Nikon. Only the trace of flicker in the viewfinder under fluorescent lights indicates this is an EVF not OVF. The finder optics are really advanced and projects a very crisp and clear image to the user. There is no problem reading even the corners of the finder frame with glasses on.
This is actually the crucial point we all had our doubts about if this would actually be possible at all to produce for Nikon.
Amazing feat to achieve this, and in such a compact design, very impressive!
Looking forward to trying it out ;)
Thank you for your swift hands on reports B
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Some interesting bits in this hands-on from DPReview:
https://www.dpreview.com/videos/9606592454/dpreview-tv-nikon-z-7-hands-on-first-impressions?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source
Of course, they've had a few days to play with it.
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still hoping that we get a cheaper version with no EVF :o :o :o
I know many people would like to know how Leica M lenses perform on the new Z also ;)
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How does it work if no Ai tab is present? Thinking of non CPU modified lenses.
As I didn't have any such lenses with me, this is a little speculative on my part. There is a stop-down lever inside the FTZ adapter but no aperture follower. Thus the camera assumes either the lens has a CPU and can be controlled from the camera side (valid for all AF/AFI/AIP/AFS/G/P/E and CPU-modified lenses), or it is entered in the non-CPU list (and selected therefrom), or (and this is the speculative part) it will confuse the camera's meter as the Z thinks the lens is set wide open thus meters at full aperture, but the aperture will close to the set (and unknown) value when the exposure is made.
Sorry if the above seems convoluted, as I'm a little sleep-deprived at present. When I get the review sample (Z7 likely) these aspects of course will receive in-depth attention.
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As to future adapters, I'm pretty convinced Chinese manufacturers already are busy programming their CNC machinery for a plethora of <brand X>-Z adapters. They might rely on the camera falling back to a default metering mode with no lens connectivity is present, as it is unlikely third-party adapters provide the required electronics.
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One aspect important to me got no preliminary answer at the press pre-release event. The Z cameras do have some kind of GPS support, as clearly indicated in the menu systems by the "Location" entries just like my Df and other recent Nikons. However, how GPS (or NMEA streams) enter the camera was unclear to all Nikon reps i pestered on that issue. Hopefully there is a possibility of using the USB remote control port just as my Foolography GPS module operates on my Df. I did not like the hints about a possible Snapbridge connectivity via Wi-Fi as this surely draws a lot of extra power plus relies on an external telephony service we know not always can be present (unlike external GPS/Glonass receivers transmitting to a camera receiver via Blutooth and having their own power source).
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The f/1.8S lenses are new designs with apperantly a focus on better performance compared to their F-mount cousins; good to see that next to the 35/1.8 and 50/1.8 the 20/1.8, 24/1.8 and 85/1.8 are coming too.
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The only odd thing that I see is Nikons new naming and identification marking of their new Lenses maybe I just didn't find out what S-Line is or stands for:
Naming is: S-Line and Z series,,,
Road map: S-Line NIKKOR 58mm 1:0.95 S Noct
On the lens engraving front: Z 58mm f/0.95 S Noct
Lens barrel 58/0.95 S and instead of the old 'gold plaques' a swift handwritten font Noct that looks very classy - Nice
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The only odd thing that I see is Nikons new naming and identification marking of their new Lenses maybe I just didn't find out what S-Line is or stands for:
Naming is: S-Line and Z series,,,
Road map: S-Line NIKKOR 58mm 1:0.95 S Noct
On the lens engraving front: Z 58mm f/0.95 S Noct
Lens barrel 58/0.95 S
In one of the live presentations this morning, the Nikon Exec spelled out the S Series denote the top quality lenses. So it seems "S" updates "Gold-Ring"
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Some interesting bits in this hands-on from DPReview:
https://www.dpreview.com/videos/9606592454/dpreview-tv-nikon-z-7-hands-on-first-impressions?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source
Of course, they've had a few days to play with it.
Another preview here: https://www.ephotozine.com/article/nikon-z6-z7-hands-on-preview-32618 (https://www.ephotozine.com/article/nikon-z6-z7-hands-on-preview-32618)
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Nah. "S" as in AiS, meaning a linear aperture. The reps told us that as they got a direct question from the audience.
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Interesting to see that there will be Nikon branded 120GB XQD card..
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Nah. "S" as in AiS, meaning a linear aperture. The reps told us that as they got a direct question from the audience.
sorry, i got confused. which one were you referring to? :o :o :o
i want to know more about the other "S", that is S-mount. i may make my own from spare parts ::)
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I know many people would like to know how Leica M lenses perform on the new Z also ;)
This I will be doing. Just will need an adapter which I expect we will soon see. BTW I ordered the Z6 as high ISO is of importance. The MTFs are on the Global site and look impressive.
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_24-70mmf4s/spec.htm
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As I didn't have any such lenses with me, this is a little speculative on my part. There is a stop-down lever inside the FTZ adapter but no aperture follower. Thus the camera assumes either the lens has a CPU and can be controlled from the camera side (valid for all AF/AFI/AIP/AFS/G/P/E and CPU-modified lenses), or it is entered in the non-CPU list (and selected therefrom), or (and this is the speculative part) it will confuse the camera's meter as the Z thinks the lens is set wide open thus meters at full aperture, but the aperture will close to the set (and unknown) value when the exposure is made.
If the camera assumes the lens is AI-S, you could set the aperture via the camera - the lens would need to be set to minimum aperture (eg f22) so the full range of apertures is available. But this wouldn't be practical for AI and pre-Ai lenses with the non-linear aperture action.
Another possibility is that the camera assumes the lens is AI-S, when the picture is taken the camera stops the lens down, takes another stopped-down meter reading and adjusts the shutter speed (or ISO) to compensate for any discrepancy. This is how the FA worked with AI lenses.
Of the adapter somehow disables the mechanical aperture linkage when non-CPU lenses are used so pure stop-down metering (using the lens aperture ring) is possible - permanent full-time DOF preview.
Will be interesting to see how the camera/adapter actually work with AI and pre-AI lenses...
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Why start with a 6? Does it mean there will be no D6? Is this the end of the D dinasty?
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Part of the reason is this
I guess 1.4 kg of lens on an 800g body?
What are the real data?
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There are no precise data in the press release I received on the Z Noct. My guess is it will weigh somewhere between 1 and 2 kg.
I also had an in-depth study of the EXIF specification to see how the f/0.95 aperture would be registered. Typically aperture settings and maximum aperture are presented in APEX (Av) form such as
Av = 2 log2 (fnumber)
and encoded into two hex digits, meaning that f/1 is represented as 0x00. F-numbers below 1 will necessitate a negative APEX value for which format the makers need to agree on. The Z cameras themselves could just put the value into the private MakerNote segment, though.
Although f/0.95 sounds impressive, in terms of "lens speed" this is just 1/6 EV faster than f/1.
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CIPA battery life for both Z6 and Z7 is 330 frames according to the DPreview table, so expect to carry a lot of batteries. Not unexpected, as there is just so much manufacturers can do with power consumption given a set of available components. It is better than the AW1 (220) that I can relate to, but AW1 has a built in flash that will push the number down.
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Reminds me of the good old D1 series battery performance,,, arghhh ::)
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Nikon UK quoted much higher battery performance attained under field testing than the CIPA figures indicate.
There will be a new battery pack or grip with double batteries thus increasing shooting capacity markedly. What the end result in terms of number of frames per charge turns out to be can only be evaluated when I get the review camera. My D500 has a surprising thirst for power and I rarely get more than 300 frames per battery with that one thus putting the Zs into the same bracket. Even the humble Df rarely goes beyond 400 frames per charge in my hands.
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Would be nice if you have one at Photokina. :)
Das ist doch mal ein Grund, zur Photokina zu gehen!
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Sure. We'll be there on the 28th. If memory serves I owe you a beer. Perhaps they at least have a prototype or mock-up of the new Noct. Which, incidentally, I already have pre-ordered.
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still hoping that we get a cheaper version with no EVF :o :o :o
An optical rangefinder variant would be nice... ::) (Forgive me. I'm doing it again.)
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As to future adapters, I'm pretty convinced Chinese manufacturers already are busy programming their CNC machinery for a plethora of <brand X>-Z adapters. They might rely on the camera falling back to a default metering mode with no lens connectivity is present, as it is unlikely third-party adapters provide the required electronics.
My sentiments, exactly.
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Sure. We'll be there on the 28th. If memory serves I owe you a beer. Perhaps they at least have a prototype or mock-up of the new Noct. Which, incidentally, I already have pre-ordered.
The mock-up or the beer? ;D 8) ::)
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The Z Noct -- of course :D
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While the quasi obsolescence of the Af-D lenses was not entirely unexpected, and a bit disappointing as I've lost my last practical reason for not investing in 21st Century glass, I'm seeing in the Z-bodies a form factor that should mate well with ancient Nikon bellows and the attendant lenses scavenged from all manner of enlargers, projectors, copiers and Cold War machines. Should be fun.
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Hi!
Can't find info about AA-filters, but I suppose there is one on the Z6-sensor?
/Johan L
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Hi!
Can't find info about AA-filters, but I suppose there is one on the Z6-sensor?
/Johan L
Nikon Press quote:
A backside illumination CMOS sensor without an Optical Low Pass Filter, with focal-plane phase-detection AF pixels, has been adopted for both the Z 7 and the Z 6.
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Nikon Press quote:
A backside illumination CMOS sensor without an Optical Low Pass Filter, with focal-plane phase-detection AF pixels, has been adopted for both the Z 7 and the Z 6.
Aha! So as far as I understand, except for the resolution, and number of focus points, the Z6 and Z7 are very similar. Hard to understand the difference in price, but good news if 24 MP is enough. Z6 seems almost cheap... maybe time to preorder...
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In one of the live presentations this morning, the Nikon Exec spelled out the S Series denote the top quality lenses. So it seems "S" updates "Gold-Ring"
I had thought it might be a reminiscence to the old S rangefinder line
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Why start with a 6? Does it mean there will be no D6? Is this the end of the D dinasty?
Had thought about that as well
originally i was thinking the Z7 and Z6 are middle class and ther will be a premium Z1 with some room in between for upgrades, but the Z6 Z7 ranking order appears to be the other way round
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Off the record I was informed the Z6/Z7 are not endpoints of Nikon development.
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Maybe there will be a Z8 then with some 20 fps aimed at the Sony A9
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Z
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"My aim is true" -- Elvis Costello
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OK NAS is starting
I still wonder how the AF systems compare to the SLR series in terms of speed and accuracy, so better start with a Z7
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from what I can see, AF seems pretty solid :o :o :o
it's the styling that's a bit off at least for my taste ::)
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No crop factor. Thank you very much Nikon!
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Perhaps I'm mistaking but I was under the impression that, generally speaking, mirrorless cameras could allow faster flash sync speeds than DSLR's. I see both the X cameras are rated at x=1/200s, which is slower than Nikon DSLR's.
Does anyone have any insight as to why that might be the case here?
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The new lenses feature "Focus by Wire", not completely unexpected and in line with the mirrorless competition :( The "focus" ring however can be configured for other purposes like aperture control and exposure compensation and is therefore called "Control Ring". So combining AF and manual focus is a software feature, hopefully Nikon has implemented this properly if at all.
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Perhaps I'm mistaking but I was under the impression that, generally speaking, mirrorless cameras could allow faster flash sync speeds than DSLR's. I see both the X cameras are rated at x=1/200s, which is slower than Nikon DSLR's.
Does anyone have any insight as to why that might be the case here?
For these kinds of cameras, the x-sync is a function of the shutter. Usually when cameras have better than 1/250 or 1/320 with flash, they are using some kind of high speed sync feature or they have leaf shutters built into the lenses.
It is very difficult if not impossible right now to get a flash pulse to play well with a fully electronic sensor without the use of the shutter.
Being mirrorless does not automatically mean that you gain unlimited flash use at all shutter speeds.
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OK, so some of my own questions I didn't see listed anywhere else.
1) Can you actuate the shutter by pressing the rear LCD like you can with the D500 or most m43 cameras? Just a curiousity.
2) Can anyone confirm or deny if the AF performance is better on the Z6 than the Z7? I know there is anecdotal posts out there that despite the D5/D500/D850 having the same AF module, that the AF on the cameras, performance wise is slight different, being the D5 the best of the bunch and then going down the line.
3) 12fps continuous shooting on the Z6. Is that full AF and metering or is that only available when shooting at 5.5fps?
Just out of my own observation - why are all the other outlets so "ga-ga" over and comparing everything else against the Z7? It's almost as if the Z6 doesn't exist. I see the Z6, though as the more compelling option for a lot of people like me. Now that I know that the f-mount 24-70/2.8G is fully functional on the Z cameras, I'm doubting my need to grab the 24-70/4 kit lens. Just the Z6 and the FTZ adapter to start with, then wait and see what else?
I'm also curious if my Tamron 70-200/2.8 VC will work.
Good times ahead!
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There is full touch-screen availability on the rear panel. This feature can, of course, be switched off.
The fuss about the Z7 simply is due to the camera being at pre-production sample level now, with sufficient quantities of it to soon beginning to be distributed to testers. Sales of Z7 will commence end of September. The Z6 is scheduled to be available in November, so far fewer units are available at present. Thus Z7 outnumbered the Z6 by a tenfold or larger factor at the Nikon pre-release event.
I did handle the Z6 briefly, but with native lenses at least there were no obvious difference in focusing. This merits more in-depth testing later when my review camera(s) arrive.
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There is full touch-screen availability on the rear panel. This feature can, of course, be switched off.
The fuss about the Z7 simply is due to the camera being at pre-production sample level now, with sufficient quantities of it to soon beginning to be distribute to testers. Sales of Z7 will commence end of September. The Z6 is scheduled to be available in November, so far fewer units are available at present. Thus Z7 outnumbered the Z6 by a tenfold or larger factor at the Nikon pre-release event.
I did handle the Z6 briefly, but with native lenses at least there were no obvious difference in focusing. This merits more in-depth testing later when my review camera(s) arrive.
Thank you so much for the response. It is much appreciated. Makes sense about the availability, which didn't dawn on me initially until you just pointed that fact out.
I guess my thoughts then are to this: Will the optical, stabilization and AF performance of the 24-70/4S z-mount lens be equal to or better than an adapted 24-70/2.8G.
From what I do know right now:
I am not going to go off of DPReview image samples of pre-production firmware JPG or them running and gunning shots on the street.
There is a difference between f/2.8 and f/4 (obviously), but I can count on my hand the number of times I needed f/2.8 on my current 24-70/2.8G.
From what I've read, the adapted f-mount lenses get 3 axis IBIS (potentially only 3 effective stops), while z-mount get the benefit of the full 5 axis (5 effective stops). Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to overlook the fact that I get an unstabilized lens new life with stabilization!
I could save a few hundred dollars and just get the Z6 body and FTZ adapter, but I fear I would be missing out on the benefit of the new mount without at least one native lens. At launch it appears that the only choice is going to be the 24-70/4.
Decisions, decisions! lol
Then again, nothing says I have to be an early adopter, either. I could wait a bit and see how it all shakes out, especially after the awesome resources here get their hands on the camera!
On top of it all, I am going to a Nikon open house on September 7th to see it in person At Midwest Photo here in Columbus, OH.
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One interesting point will be, how much does the firmware do to the files, will they be like the D cameras or will it change distortion etc,,,
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One interesting point will be, how much does the firmware do to the files, will they be like the D cameras or will it change distortion etc,,,
That is a good question.
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Filter size is 82mm for that Noct Z. Nikon said it would be manual focus only. The VR is provided by the camera by default (5 dimensions).
I wonder why the new Noct is so big? AF lenses are often bulky due to the AF motor, but this lens is manual focus.
The entrance pupil of a 58mm f/0.95 lens is 61mm - the same as an 85/1.4 lens. Often the front element is a bit larger so mechanical vignetting is less but from the pictures, the front element is not overly large. It seems possible the lens could be more slender with a 72mm filter size instead??
I had a closer look at the picture attached earlier in this thread, two other interesting things to note:
1. The focus throw is extremely long, you can see the close focus 0.5m mark just to the left of the infinity mark, which means the focus throw is nearly a full rotation, I guess 330°. Michael will be pleased. By comparison, the AI 55/1.2 and 58/1.8 Noct focus to the same distance with "only" 230° rotation (which already makes them slow to focus...). The Z Noct also has a much fatter barrel so the focus travel is proportionally greater in addition to the longer focus angle.
2. There seems to be a small LCD panel in the side of the lens, maybe is like the Zeiss Batis lenses for showing DOF?
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Nikon might try to reduce mechanical vignetting to a minimum -- that's my guess at present.
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I wonder why the new Noct is so big? AF lenses are often bulky due to the AF motor, but this lens is manual focus.
Attached image is from a Nikon brochure https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf.
It looks a very elaborate lens design.
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Many of the lens elements are very thick. Meaning the lens will be heavy.
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Many of the lens elements are very thick. Meaning the lens will be heavy.
And probably very expensive. It has a precision ground large diameter aspherical lens. Now when did Nikon last use one of these ? Probably in the old 28mm f1.4 lens?
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I pre-ordered the Z Noct. Then I would have all Noct versions from the late '70s until present.The F Nocts are interesting and temperamental lenses. Precisely a design to fall in love with, or to dislike.
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How much would it have cost for Nikon to have had 2 card slots ?
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Nikon might try to reduce mechanical vignetting to a minimum -- that's my guess at present.
Then the front element would be larger. Based on the size of the front element, the lens could be more slender with 72mm filter threads - about the location of the raised inner ring
Maybe they wanted the longest possible focus throw for very precise focusing, so decided on a fatter barrel?
More likely... the lens has a lot of glass with heavy elements, the lenses must be mounted with the highest precision to ensure the best optical quality, so the barrel is very highly engineered. Nikon is a proud company, don't want to be outdone by Zeiss Otus or Sigma Art :o
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OK, so some of my own questions I didn't see listed anywhere else.
3) 12fps continuous shooting on the Z6. Is that full AF and metering or is that only available when shooting at 5.5fps?
Good times ahead!
The FPS rate described as "Extended" is at 12 bits (both cameras) and at least the Z7 only has AE only on the first frame. There may be more issues. I found the footnote explained in the brochure.
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i just wanted to say that I am thankful to this community and for this thread. I've been to several other forums around the 'net. Why people cannot be civil about this announcement, I'll never know.
You'd think that someone slapped there mother and called her a nasty name the way they attack. Lol
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I hear you, brother! If one word describes the NikonGear community, it's "civility". "Expertise", "instructive", "professionalism" just naturally follow!
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I'm curious about focusing old lenses, how hard or easy is it?
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I guess 1.4 kg of lens on an 800g body?
What are the real data?
According to Impress-Watch news, the new PF 500/5.6 weighs 1.46kg, 106mm diameter x 237mm long.
https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1139375.html
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I'm curious about focusing old lenses, how hard or easy is it?
Focusing, as in see the focus on the EVF?
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I'm curious about focusing old lenses, how hard or easy is it?
I was wondering myself and whether or not the EVF would allow for zooming in on the image frame as an aid to critical focusing. I can't think of any reason why manually focusing legacy F-mount primes, even Af-D lenses relegated to manual focusing, should be a problem. In fact, I suspect it would be easier, now.
Like I've already intimated on a couple of threads, I believe the Z6 will quickly come to be regarded as "the digital FE", poor photographer's alternative to the Df, and hipsters tool of choice. (The latter somewhat redundant, much like a horse riding a horse... LOL)
All that wistful if wishful musing, and provided the production model doesn't reveal itself to be an absolute lemon, just in time for the holidays. (Says the man who only today received a gold-box D610 from Melville, in exchange for a four-times returned D600 "refurb" purchased used; only to discover the new camera doesn't function properly. Ugh! Somewhere out there is a lonely, used D810 looking for a good home. Mine! Someday... And sorry for the way off-topic digression and navel gazing.)
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For critical focusing, the ability to push a button...a button that is already located under a convenient finger... to zoom in on the image is one of the nicest features of ML cameras in general. It is inconceivable that these new Nikons wouldn't have this feature.
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Keith, I agree. I have more MF lenses for my two Sony Bodies than native lenses I do use some Nikon lenses on the Sony bodies. Focus peaking is not that reliable on its' own but used with Magnification (I assume same as the referred to Zoom) MF is easy and fast. I've been using Sony for a couple of years now and Olympus for longer but when I pick up the DF or D500 I really feel at home. Even though I get images I like from both shooting has to be fun , for me, and not hard work. The big question for me is can a Z6 replace my Df. So far neither MILC has been suitable to fast action, birds and active Events so D500 and my long lenses are not going anywhere.
Tom
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Focusing, as in see the focus on the EVF?
right
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EVF zooming and stopped-down operation (overcoming focus shift troubles) are my most wanted features in relation with legacy lenses. Olympus made them both available long ago with their OM-D bodies and they all worked very well. So I expect something here :)
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A lot of debate about the lack of a second card slot. Personally, I don’t care. I never had a card failure when shooting, and I take about 15’000 shots / year. My question is: is this not a remain of older times, where cards were less reliable ? A little bit in analogy with the many nowadays cars lacking a spare tire.
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A lot of debate about the lack of a second card slot. Personally, I don’t care. I never had a card failure when shooting, and I take about 15’000 shots / year. My question is: is this not a remain of older times, where cards were less reliable ? A little bit in analogy with the many nowadays cars lacking a spare tire.
I lost a file only once, it was with a camera with two filled slots in backup (parallel writing) mode. The file was corrupted on both cards, so a double slot config isn't failsafe either...
The hot debate about the single slot will shorten the waiting queue, so it is a good feature 8)
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Any one seen anything on the silent mode ???
Card failure ..oh yes a 64 GB lexor used it about 20 times before it failed..but I had two slots …..lucky bride ,lucky me
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How much would it have cost for Nikon to have had 2 card slots ?
There's a fair volume of bleating on other forums about singular single card slot. I've only been using XQD cards since late 2016 with the D500, and now D850. (but use SD in my Df obviously). Many of us relying on the fast buffer for wildlife etc, have been relying off a single card only for practical reasons of write speed and compatibility. Well...Zero problems thus far. I've yet to read of a XQD failure (?)
One assumes Nikon did not make a facile decision on core design of the Z6 and Z7. Anyways preordered my Z7 yesterday :-) I'm confident in the robust reliability of XQD technology. The Silent-shutter and allied specs will compliment the D850 for mare clandestine work that I'm developing on selected wildlife subjects. Only apprehension is the relatively short battery life, especially with a MILC mounted remotely etc. So hope the MB-N10 grip appears soon AND that it takes ENEL18's (not stated).
One reads the grip can be charged via USB, specifying the EH-7P Charging AC Adapter: https://www.nikon.com/news/2018/0823_mirrorless_01.htm (https://www.nikon.com/news/2018/0823_mirrorless_01.htm)
A USB cable should charge off any AC adapter (?)
But the CNC machines in china are likely warming up to clone this grip too (judging on the timing of 3rd party grips appearing for the D500 and D850)
The one Spec there should be more cheering about is Nikon have retained the EN-EL15b. A big relief and sooo much less cost and hassle. Thanks very much Nikon ;D :D
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Any one seen anything on the silent mode ???
Card failure ..oh yes a 64 GB lexor used it about 20 times before it failed..but I had two slots …..lucky bride ,lucky me
Anyway, likely she’s divorced by now 8)
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Anyway, likely she’s divorced by now 8)
Wonderful Quip ;D ;D appeals to my cynicism!
My final sixpence on Single Slot (yes I'm an unrepentant Nikonian of 34+ years). Brutal reality in the real World (beyond keyboards)... A Sony MILC (with 2 slots) is far more likely to fail than a XQD card (or a Nikon body in fact).
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I'd be interested in finding out which buttons have secondary functions not printed on the button, and if some of these controls actually don't have their own dedicated button at all.
I have set up my DSLRs to use the Fn buttons as:
- non-CPU lens selection
- image area
and the Z6/Z7 seem to have only two Fn buttons.
This leaves at least these 6 dedicated buttons missing from the Z6/Z7
- flash compensation
- bracketing
- DOF preview
- metering mode
- white balance
- quality
I'm sure they are as secondary functions in some buttons and only the label is not printed on the camera body or button. Will be hard for an old geezer like me to remember which is where. ::) ;D
Is the user manual available for download somewhere? I couldn't find it.
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A lot of debate about the lack of a second card slot. Personally, I don’t care. I never had a card failure when shooting, and I take about 15’000 shots / year. My question is: is this not a remain of older times, where cards were less reliable ? A little bit in analogy with the many nowadays cars lacking a spare tire.
I don't know if cards were less reliable in the old days, the capacity was a lot smaller so the loss in case of card failure was less severe in terms of potential quantity of images lost. But I never lost an image in the early days of digital photography, only recently (a few years ago) two Sandisk Extreme Pro SD UHS-I cards stopped working and some video files were lost on a Memory Stick Pro card. I have not lost anything on CF or XQD cards, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
I think if one has a single card slot, and shooting a critical event, one should at least shoot two cameras and swap often. If one shoots subjects for which retakes are possible, then it should not be a big issue.
For weddings in the US I remember that restaging of the key moments of the ceremony were a normal technique to clear the ceremony itself of disturbing photography and to allow the photographers to get formal and technically good images of the event even if not genuinely "those moments". If a card should fail and the photographer noticed this maybe this is a possible solution to re-enact the moments for photos.
I only use the dual-card parallel writing feature when shooting critical events. I understand that it doesn't guarantee there is no loss of images but it reduces the likelihood.
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Still trying to figure out what comes extra with the Z7 over de Z6 that explains the hefty premium in price.
So far the only differences I could find are of course the different sensors with roughly double the MP's and AF points, different ISO range (lower) and probably a higher DR range. Besides the sensor there seems to be a more efficient (or less powerful) wifi and bluetooth radio on board but should not be really relevant for the price I guess.
With the Sony a7 range the R models came with a full metal vs plastic shell, metal vs plastic buttons, bigger and better EVF with Zeiss coatings, PDAF and CDAF vs only CDAF, etc whereas the Z6 and Z7 seem to be the same construction and feature wise.
What am I missing here?
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A little side note, from the Z7/Z6 brochure, page 53:
"Nikon’s Capture NX-D software is the best way to process original RAW (NEF/ NRW) files without losing any of their extremely rich data. You can adjust options such as exposure compensation, white balance, Picture Control, Active D-Lighting and noise reduction using a slider. It also incorporates color control points that let you edit the hue, brightness, saturation, contrast, etc. of a selected area. JPEG and TIFF files are also compatible."
(emphasis by me)
So it could look like we are getting the control points back in CNX-D.
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Great find Øivind and awesome news if this is the case :)
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Still trying to figure out what comes extra with the Z7 over de Z6 that explains the hefty premium in price.
High resolution has a certain value to the user and typically this type of camera occupies the 3200-3800€ price class.
The 24MP model is perhaps more general purpose and fits the needs of a broader audience (faster, less heavy on the amount of data generated, possibly better high ISO) so it can be offered at a lower price.
This pricing is consistent with existing Canon (5D III/IV vs. 5Ds R), Sony (A7 vs. A7R), and Nikon (D750 vs. D8x0) pricing for "regular" and "high resolution" models.
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Still trying to figure out what comes extra with the Z7 over de Z6 that explains the hefty premium in price.
So far the only differences I could find are of course the different sensors with roughly double the MP's and AF points, different ISO range (lower) and probably a higher DR range. Besides the sensor there seems to be a more efficient (or less powerful) wifi and bluetooth radio on board but should not be really relevant for the price I guess.
With the Sony a7 range the R models came with a full metal vs plastic shell, metal vs plastic buttons, bigger and better EVF with Zeiss coatings, PDAF and CDAF vs only CDAF, etc whereas the Z6 and Z7 seem to be the same construction and feature wise.
What am I missing here?
We read in the pdf Brochure Table (pg 77) the difference you listed in AF coverage differs by 493 vs 273. This has to be the other justification alongside the 46mp sensor.
many in other forums condemn these specs as sub par compared to Sony, as though Nikon should have leapt ahead in key specs. I ignore this noise. Besides what we read about what the FTZ converter brings to Nikonland, I suspect [hope!] it is AF performance where we will experience some surprises. If so, this will justify paying out for a Z7 with fuller EVF coverage. My personal justification is the high quality of the sensor will match if not better my already superb D850 + in the lighter camera with silent shutter and all the other key benefits a MILC of this spec confers on the wildlife, macro and landscape genres.
On another topic, there is no mention of Group Area mode in AF: "Pinpoint, single-point and dynamic-area AF (pinpoint and dynamic-area AF available in photo mode only); wide-area AF (S); wide-area AF (L); auto-area AF"
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The shutter sound of Z7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=-qJe6OFZteU
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In various crop modes (DX, video etc), will the viewfinder image be expanded to the whole display area or be cropped like on a DSLR?
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We read in the pdf Brochure Table (pg 77) the difference you listed in AF coverage differs by 493 vs 273. This has to be the other justification alongside the 46mp sensor.
The area covered is the same, but the Z7 has a higher density of AF points. This is reasonable because to achieve the higher resolution you need to be able to specify the focus more precisely.
If so, this will justify paying out for a Z7 with fuller EVF coverage.
I'm not sure what you mean. The EVF is the same.
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Great find Øivind and awesome news if this is the case :)
Yes, hopefully it is not the marketing department that has gone overboard. The question is also if these control points will be as well integrated as in CNX2.
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Yes, hopefully it is not the marketing department that has gone overboard. The question is also if these control points will be as well integrated as in CNX2.
Control points are useless if the software constantly crashes. NX-D has been the most shocking downgrade from NX2 and perhaps the biggest disappoint I have experienced as a Nikon user.
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The shutter sound of Z7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=-qJe6OFZteU
I expect that can be disabled?
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Suspicion confirmed: the Z cameras support incoming NMEA data on the USB port. Meaning my Foolography GPS units will work. Today's greatest news (for me).
Now we are awaiting L brackets and sundry other gadgets. As the form factor of the Z6/7 is identical, any L bracket should be perfect on either body (I have ordered Z6 and Z7 and hope to get the Z7 in September, the Z6 in November).
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Suspicion confirmed: the Z cameras support incoming NMEA data on the USB port. Meaning my Foolography GPS units will work. Today's greatest news (for me).
Great news indeed
here is overview of significance of the new Z from within Japan - use Google translate. "It can be said that this is an announcement of a high-speed large-capacity communication system of a new era called a Z mount system rather than a camera announcement."
https://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/config/1139440.html (https://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/config/1139440.html)
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This pricing is consistent with existing Canon (5D III/IV vs. 5Ds R), Sony (A7 vs. A7R), and Nikon (D750 vs. D8x0) pricing for "regular" and "high resolution" models.
That I understand but those are different cameras, eg the D750 has consumer specs (with all due respect) whereas the D8x0 can do the pro stuff like 1/8000th shutter, 10 pin connector, etc and the a7R models has the premium EVF, LCD, all metal vs plastic build, etc over the a7 models.
Let me turn it around, if the Z7 is the premium model at 3400 bucks you are getting a whole lot of camera for 2000 bucks with the Z6 as the only difference seems to be the sensor :)
Personally I am in the market for the Z7 to continue the high res journey which started with the D800E, a7R and the current a7RII.
The low res and high ISO journey which started with the D700, D3s and now the a7S will end soon when I sell the a7S as the high ISO performance provided by the high res cameras has been sufficient for my use since the amazing sensor of the a7RII (which should be superseded by performance of the Z7).
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On the Japanese Nikon website, the specification tables for all 24-70, 50. 35mm Nikkor Z lenses indicates the angle-of-view for both FX and DX.
I wonder if this is typo, or Nikon is developing Z bodies of DX format? (I guess it is just typo, though.)
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The FTZ adapter should work with even the most exotic of F-mount lenses. It will allow the use of manual lenses with CPU of course, as expected. AF/AFD lenses will meter, but there is, again as expected, no screwdriver AF transmission, thus these lenses from late '80s up to the first generation of AFS optics will not do autofocus. Indeed, like they behave of most Nikons today.
Here is the 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkor on the FTZ. One can regulate the aperture from the camera's thumbwheel on the top right corner. In this case, as the lens is CPU-modified, nothing additional is required. For non-CPU lenses, there is the same procedure as on traditional DSLRs by diving into the menus and set the lens data there.
Since the adapter doesn't have an Ai tab, aperature can only be set with the thumb wheel, not the aperature ring, correct? If this is the case, then non-Ai lenses will have exposure issues due to the non-uniform spacing of f-stops correct?
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.
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Since the adapter doesn't have an Ai tab, aperature can only be set with the thumb wheel, not the aperature ring, correct? If this is the case, then non-Ai lenses will have exposure issues due to the non-uniform spacing of f-stops correct?
In theory, correct. However, there are options for the camera to correct for such non-linear issues *if* the lens is marked as pre-AIs in the menus.
Since there is no aperture follower on the FTZ adapter, this implies even the oldest non-AI lenses should in principle work. I have kept a few of those ancient designs mainly for testing purposes and that is what they will be used for again with the Z-cameras once my review sample(s) arrive.
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Let me turn it around, if the Z7 is the premium model at 3400 bucks you are getting a whole lot of camera for 2000 bucks with the Z6 as the only difference seems to be the sensor :)
It's not a "premium" model; it's simply the high resolution model.
D3 vs. D3X also differently priced, the build was the same. 5Ds R is similar to 5D III but for the sensor, but more expensive.
It's not due to features, build, difficulty of manufacture etc. but simply that the high resolution is seen to be valuable to the user and hence the user is charged more. Most users do not need it therefore a lower price is easy to justify simply because the cost of R&D per unit is smaller.
Similarly, e.g. Panasonic and Canon charge extra for Log recording. It's a lookup table thing and costs absolutely nothing to add. It's valuable to the specialist user, but most users don't need it, and hence they ask money for it.
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A lot of debate about the lack of a second card slot. Personally, I don’t care. I never had a card failure when shooting, and I take about 15’000 shots / year. My question is: is this not a remain of older times, where cards were less reliable ? A little bit in analogy with the many nowadays cars lacking a spare tire.
I concur. Never used the OCD second card for backup but only for overflow.
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Hmm. Specifications list:
* higher fps rate in extended mode
* better low light AF sensitivity
* higher Bluetooth power
as slight advantages to the Z6. And the full-pixel readout for full-frame 4K.
So one could argue that apart from the resolution (and AF point count) the Z6 is the better model.
Because of its lower price and advantages in video and low light, most users are expected to choose the Z6. The Z7 is then a more specialised camera for high-resolution work.
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Exactly my point whereas with the a7RII you did get the better camera compared to the a7II for all the things mentioned above but also got the better ISO performance due to the backlit sensor which changed the traditional low res is better than high res sensors for high ISO performance.
Btw my comments are not meant to nitpick on the Z7 as the differences are small but just to emphasise that the Z6 is one hell of a camera for the price :)
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My point as well. It also happens to fill my needs better so I'm not going to complain 😊
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I expect that can be disabled?
Yes :)
Available shutter modes:
- Electronically controlled vertical-travel focal-plane mechanical shutter (click to open and clack to close)
- Electronic front-curtain shutter (only the clack)
- Electronic shutter (silent)
On mirrorless the electronic front curtain is my preferred setting as there is no real negative impact on the IQ but one does eliminate any mechanical vibrations before the image is taken which is rather nice feature on these high res lightweight cameras.
The fully electronic shutter should only be used when you want to be silent, on the Sony's there are some negatives involved like limited ISO range and performance (from memory) but have no idea yet what the impact will be for the Zee cameras.
A global shutter would fix the negatives and also enable extreme frame rates but there should always be something left to desire I guess ;)
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From all I read and see so far I am not slightly interested in that system. In fact I am really happy with the D500/D850 combination and hope to aquire a used D5 anytime soon to form a "holy trinity" with one hi iso, one silent operation and one low iso high resolution body.
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I'd be interested in finding out which buttons have secondary functions not printed on the button, and if some of these controls actually don't have their own dedicated button at all.
I have set up my DSLRs to use the Fn buttons as:
- non-CPU lens selection
- image area
and the Z6/Z7 seem to have only two Fn buttons.
This leaves at least these 6 dedicated buttons missing from the Z6/Z7
- flash compensation
- bracketing
- DOF preview
- metering mode
- white balance
- quality
I'm sure they are as secondary functions in some buttons and only the label is not printed on the camera body or button. Will be hard for an old geezer like me to remember which is where. ::) ;D
Is the user manual available for download somewhere? I couldn't find it.
I’m glad to see the camera is not covered in buttons as I use many of them so infrequently that I forget where they are and have to go searching for them (bracket for example).
The other thing I like is the U1 - U3 settings. These seem to be an easy way to combine a number of settings for easy reuse. For example, for panoramas I like to lock down shutter speed, aperture and ISO as well as fixed focus. Bracketing for HDR is also involved.Turning on artificial horizon or grid in viewfinder is also helpful. Combining all those as one of the user settings allows me to take a quick pano, then setting back to M with auto-iso to continue what I was doing. Seems much easier than pushing a whole bunch of buttons.
With all the video functions too, it seems there will never be enough space on the camera body for all things to have a button. Seems the touchscreen can hold a few user configurable buttons too.
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Yes :)
On mirrorless the electronic front curtain is my preferred setting as there is no real negative impact on the IQ but one does eliminate any mechanical vibrations before the image is taken which is rather nice feature on these high res lightweight cameras.
Jan, with faster than 1/1000s shutter speed there can be a considerable influence on bokeh (and skew) by using the electronic first curtain. See this link:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/
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While I'm still clinging to my Df for most uses, I find this new system interesting !
Even if I don't have the cash yet for it, I can't really make my mind on which camera :o . On one side the Z6 should be perfect (low light), but I'm still fascinated by the 46Mpix Z7 (or D850) while I don't really have the use of so much definition ::)
I'm mostly wary of the heavy side of those big files in post, as even the 16Mpix Nefs aren't so easy to load on the iPad (takes some time). As I'm trying to go light and mobile on all counts (Df, Wireless My Passport and iPad Pro) even if I have a iMac and numerous Hard disks.
But these new simple lenses seem fantastic (S35/1.8 and S50/1.8 with a future S85/1.8)!!!
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As it seems Nikon will keep the mount "closed" for the time being, making it very difficult for third parties to make compatible lenses.
For example just look at the MF Voigtlander (Sony) e-mount 40/1.2 thread at Fred Miranda, extremely popular lens and it would be nice to have that one on the Z-mount too.
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i noticed that the EVF DOESN'T FLICKER in artificial lighting :o :o :o
did anybody notice this? there is also no lag or "freeze frame" when you activate the AF ::)
is it just me!?
the XT2 and the a7III both have terrible flickering with the XT2 being the worse of the 2.
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Jan, with faster than 1/1000s shutter speed there can be a considerable influence on bokeh (and skew) by using the electronic first curtain. See this link:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/
Thanks, guess I need to do some testing for myself then as I haven't seen any issues yet.
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i noticed that the EVF DOESN'T FLICKER in artificial lighting :o :o :o
did anybody notice this? there is also no lag or "freeze frame" when you activate the AF ::)
is it just me!?
the XT2 and the a7III both have terrible flickering with the XT2 being the worse of the 2.
Both the X-T2 and X-Pro2 have terrible flickering with the artificial light in our living room. The A7rIII however is flicker free. I see no reason the Nikons cannot be the same.
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For a lot of people 1 card slot is not a dealbreaker, but for me it is.
I had once a card failure during a wedding shoot and boy I was happy I shot with 2 cards in "back-up mode". It saved my ass.
It happened only once, but I wil never do a commercial event/wedding shoot or "Once in a lifetime travel" with only 1 card in camera.
There a couple of other things I don't like, such as fps restrictions, buffer capacity.
The Z6 could replace my Df. ;)
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As it seems Nikon will keep the mount "closed" for the time being, making it very difficult for third parties to make compatible lenses.
Where did you get this info from?
With Photokina on the way I was kinda hoping that Voigtlander and Zeiss would announce their Nikon Z lenses based on their current (and new) Sony EF offerings.
Had to wait 2,5 years for a decent native ultra wide-angle and don't intend to resort to adapting Nikon F lenses again when it isn't necessary.
Here's an image of the amazingly compact and capable Voigtlander 15mm f/4.5 FE sided by the original 15/4.5 LTM and the Samyang 14/2.8, both adapted to the Sony FE mount for size reference. This completely renewed for digital classic has an old skool aperture ring which can either be with or without third stop clicks, has a focus scale and a hard infinity stop, three features I can and will not do without on an ultra wide angle lens so those upcoming focus by wire UWA's without aperture rings are not really my forte.
When the Zee cameras are ones first mirrorless camera its perfectly fine to adapt Nikon F lenses to bridge the transition phase but I already went through all that 5 years ago and not very eager to make the jump to a Z7 while I have a perfect set of lenses for the a7RII, so if Nikon doesn't open up their mount I'll just stick with what I have I guess.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1711/26616822692_244f5bfc00_o.jpg)
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....
So it could look like we are getting the control points back in CNX-D.
WooHoo!
about time(I hope).
counting the seconds till it's release.
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i noticed that the EVF DOESN'T FLICKER in artificial lighting :o :o :o
did anybody notice this? there is also no lag or "freeze frame" when you activate the AF ::)
....
.... I see no reason the Nikons cannot be the same.
I think it was Bjørn towards the lower part of page #1
".. only the trace of flicker under fluoro lights ..."
This may be a big deal for me, as it's possibly the reason I'm anti EVFs to date. They make me queezy when looking through them and fast motion.
(as an aside tho, I am easily susceptible to motion sickness)
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Last year, I opened a thread "when my Df dies, ..."
It looks like my Df can die in peace. But as late as possible, please (I love it and besides, finances are low)
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this first review using a preproduction Z7 reports 800-1000 shots with the preproduction Z7:
".... The battery usage wasn't fully optimised at that point, and I was told it would be improved when released. Having said that, I was getting around 800-1000 images per battery. Update: I've just finished presenting and shooting at the Nikon UK launch event in London. The official rating is around 330 shots per battery. I have no idea how they ended up at that figure as I had shot a shade under 500 images at the event and only 1/5th of the battery was used."
http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review (http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review)
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"I was hired by Nikon Japan to showcase the technical aspects of the new 35mm ƒ1.8 lens "
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http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review (http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review)
A quote from the Z35/1.8 review:
The sensor and lens system is a new design, akin to medium format in the way bokeh (depth) is rendered. I recall hearing that ƒ1.8 on this system is roughly equal to ƒ1.4 on full frame.
To my knowledge the Zee cameras have an FX sized sensor so this remark doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
That said the boke does look nice :)
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I challenged several Nikon reps on that ridiculous statement "f/1.8 is f/1.4" and got no substantial backing for the claim. Which is not surprising as it is sheer nonsense. Probably a dimwit in a marketing department made it up.
Spoke briefly to Ross Harvey and he said battery consumption was a no-brainer as he could shoot all day long and no need for recharging. However, he acknowledged only jpgs were used and of course even bad UK weather is not like a Nordic late autumn or winter.
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I'm curious about focusing old lenses, how hard or easy is it?
Very easy with the few lenses I tried on an FTZ-equipped Z7.
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Regarding f/1.8 and f/1.4, on the European Nikon sites the following is mentioned at both the 35mm and 50mm pages. Sounds more plausible, let’s hope it is true...
“Its outstanding optical performance means that you can enjoy image quality that outshines even the f/1.4 primes that have come before.“
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Is it because the new lenses don't need to stop down for maximum sharpness?
Most 1.4 lenses need to stop down a little for (corner) sharpness.
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Still makes no sense in regard to the marketing rubbish. I expect another bad seed planted by marketing dept and the myth taking a long time to root out.
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B, any preliminary thoughts on the Z35/1.8?
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Very easy with the few lenses I tried on an FTZ-equipped Z7.
Could you explain how this works a bit more? Is there an easy way to magnify the viewfinder image without taking one's eyes off ? Reading the description given in the brochure it doesn't sound like this is possible?
The brochure says:
You can zoom in on the image to confirm focus in detail by pressing the zoom in button before shooting.
Thanks and Regards
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Best EVF so far (quote by one of my friends who have tried them all).
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....
http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review (http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review)
he really liked the camera / lens
When I buy one, it'll be the lower res one, z6, or whatever the model is at the time I get it
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Could you explain how this works a bit more? Is there an easy way to magnify the viewfinder image without taking one's eyes off ? Reading the description given in the brochure it doesn't sound like this is possible?
The brochure says:
You can zoom in on the image to confirm focus in detail by pressing the zoom in button before shooting.
Thanks and Regards
I guess it would be very similar to the Sony's.
With native lenses one can choose wether the EVF should or should not zoom in automatically when the focus-ring is turned.
For adapted lenses which don't feed back the focus distance to the camera I've assigned one of the custom buttons to trigger the zoom mode, one press gives me a red square in the middle of the EVF which I can move around and a second press enlarges the area previously selected. Half pressing the shutter returns the image back to normal for the final adjustments of the composition.
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I guess it would be very similar to the Sony's.
With native lenses one can choose wether the EVF should or should not zoom in automatically when the focus-ring is turned.
For adapted lenses which don't feed back the focus distance to the camera I've assigned one of the custom buttons to trigger the zoom mode, one press gives me a red square in the middle of the EVF which I can move around and a second press enlarges the area previously selected. Half pressing the shutter returns the image back to normal for the final framing of the composition.
Yes I have a Sony A7 and I can use a button to enlarge focus while looking through the viewfinder. But the description of the brochure seemed to imply you need to zoom in before hand and then shoot ... I sincerely hope that the zoom can be assigned to af-on and one doesn't need to take eye off the viewfinder.
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Best EVF so far (quote by one of my friends who have tried them all).
Sten, I thought you were our friend whom tried them all ;D
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Could you explain how this works a bit more? Is there an easy way to magnify the viewfinder image without taking one's eyes off ? Reading the description given in the brochure it doesn't sound like this is possible?
The brochure says:
You can zoom in on the image to confirm focus in detail by pressing the zoom in button before shooting.
Thanks and Regards
I only used direct visual focusing with or without focus peaking. Either way, the image of say a Micro-Nikkor 55/3.5 snapped satisfactorily in and out of focus even under the abysmal light conditions at the press event.
My guess is that in the multitude of options available, there is one to do what you're asking for.
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I was already quite happy with the focussing modes offered by the OM-D, a great improvement in comparison with the ground glass and (useless) focus confirmation dot of, yes, even the Df. Z6/7 can only be better, in other words: quite satisfactory.
Try to use the focus confirmation dot with a Reflex Nikkor. Ha ha. Ground glass is already better, but 500/8 yields a dim image.
I know, that's an extreme case of course.
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Where did you get this info from?
One of the places I read this is:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7-first-impressions-review/2
Hopefully fake news...
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Auto magnification (by turning the focus ring) with the A7rIII in combination with native lenses (among them the MF e-mount Voigtlanders) works really very well. Of course disadvantage is that during focussing the whole picture overview is lost.
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Dominated by marketing jargon etc, but this official document on the Nikon website gives more context and information:
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf (https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf)
note significant emphasis on "Nikkor S" - "At the top of the NIKKOR Z mount lineup are lenses that were developed in pursuit of a higher level of optical performance: the S-Line. Specifically, the highest-quality Noct enables forms of image creation that nobody has experienced before..... S-Line lenses deliver a level of optical performance that meets not only current requirements, but also those of the next generation. S-Line lenses incorporate features and specifications that photographers demand from a high-quality lens. .... Technological advances will further increase pixel counts and push image processing technologies forward. That will demand even more sophisticated optical performance. Based on this assumption, we developed these lenses with an extremely high level of performance – That’s the S-Line..... S-Line lenses are designed to deliver outstanding optical performance, so photographers can choose them with confidence, knowing they will keep responding to their image creation needs well into the future"
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For a lot of people 1 card slot is not a dealbreaker, but for me it is.
I had once a card failure during a wedding shoot and boy I was happy I shot with 2 cards in "back-up mode". It saved my ass.
It happened only once, but I wil never do a commercial event/wedding shoot or "Once in a lifetime travel" with only 1 card in camera.
There a couple of other things I don't like, such as fps restrictions, buffer capacity.
The Z6 could replace my Df. ;)
Shooting with two cards means you are twice as likely to have a card fail. This is the way math works.
-Jack
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Dominated by marketing jargon etc, but this official document on the Nikon website gives more context and information:
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf (https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf)
Interesting read, the description of the Noct is truly mouth watering.
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I challenged several Nikon reps on that ridiculous statement "f/1.8 is f/1.4" and got no substantial backing for the claim. Which is not surprising as it is sheer nonsense. Probably a dimwit in a marketing department made it up.
Could it be that the dimwit has come to the conclusion that the Z-mount being "25% larger than the F-mount" corresponds to a different aperture?
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Could it be that the dimwit has come to the conclusion that the Z-mount being "25% larger than the F-mount" corresponds to a different aperture?
Weirder conclusions have been put forward before. Still no foundation in reality.
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One of the places I read this is:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7-first-impressions-review/2
Hopefully fake news...
Same here, would be a real impediment for me personally.
Sadly the company also says that it won't be sharing the technical details of the mount, preferring to protect sales of its own lenses at the expense of creating of a more inviting, wider ecosystem. So, unlike Micro Four Thirds and Sony E-Mount, third-party makers will have to reverse-engineer the Z mount.
Attached an overview of my current lens lineup for the a7RII:
- Voigtlander 15/4.5 FE, would like to see the 10, 12 and 15mm versions in the Zee mount
- Sony Zeiss 35/1.4 FE, though I'm a big fan of 1.2 and 1.4 lenses the Z35.1.8 should do for now
- Nikkor 50/1.2, can be adapted with the FTZ adapter or a Leica M adapter (split adapters)
- Canon 85/1.2 FD, also with split adapter so can be adapted with a dumb Leica M adapter which should be cheap and available soon
- Voigtlander 125/2.5 APO EF using an electronic Metabones adapter, the fully electronic Canon EF version should make it future proof for mirrorless use IF an electronic adapter becomes available
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Shooting with two cards means you are twice as likely to have a card fail. This is the way math works.
coming to maths
You might be twice as likely to have ONE card fail. But the probability that TWO cards fail at the same time is something completely different
But maybe this was only an ironic statement and i didtn't get it
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coming to maths
You might be twice as likely to have ONE card fail. But the probability that TWO cards fail at the same time is something completely different
But maybe this was only an ironic statement and i didtn't get it
A bit of both actually. People with two cards perceive card failure rate twice as often as those with one. Likelyhood that they both fail from independent causes at the same time is certainly very low.
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Last year, I opened a thread "when my Df dies, ..."
It looks like my Df can die in peace. But as late as possible, please (I love it and besides, finances are low)
Right on!
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There are three (or just two) ways that I can think of to explain the f-stop issue discussed above. Nonetheless the aperture as defined by optics would remain the same, f/1.8 is f/1.8!
These three ways are:
1. reduced lens barrel vignetting
2. the cosine to the fourth power law was "broken" by the optical design
This paper suggest that negative distortion will do it:
https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/39/jresv39n3p213_A1b.pdf
Distort then undistort in the design??? There are folks on this forum that know much more about optics than me so I leave it to them...
3. moving the exit pupil forward (this might be the same as or part of #2) so that image corner light rays are more perpendicular to the sensor
Reduced vignetting from either way would allow a greater light volume to pass to the sensor so the effective aperture if the new S lenses is greater than older lenses. Probably truer for older older lenses like my old MF 35/1.4. Newer older lenses like the current 35/1.4 presumably have more "digital friendly" designs.
Tom
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Maybe an example would help. If my old f/1.4 lens had a T-stop of 1.8 and the T-stop of the f/1.8 S lens was 1.8 then the Nikon statement would be true. They just failed to explain to us how their statement was true.
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No, the statement is not true as long as f-numbers are presented. That different lenses nominally with the same maximum aperture can yield [slightly] different exposures, due to different effective transmission, is basic photographic knowledge. However, depth of field etc. would be similar at the same set aperture. And no lens can be "faster" than what its design aperture dictates. So in no way can an f/1.8 lens "equal" an f/1.4 lens in terms of lens speed.
If one examines the complex optical designs of these new S-Line Nikkors with their large number of elements, it is impossible that their T-values be similar to the f-numbers. Even the best of coatings incurs some loss of transmitted light.
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Makes sense, I guess all that Nikon is trying to say is that the new Z 1.8 lenses are better IQ wise than the formidable F 1.4 lenses which is of course good news :)
What I've seen so far from the Z 35/1.8 is that it shares some of the character of the F 35/1.4 which was build for character and not for stunning Irmatests, for me this is good news as I'm not a big fan of the cold, clinical lenses which are too perfect.
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No, the statement is not true as long as f-numbers are presented. That different lenses nominally with the same maximum aperture can yield [slightly] different exposures, due to different effective transmission, is basic photographic knowledge. However, depth of field etc. would be similar at the same set aperture. And no lens can be "faster" than what its design aperture dictates. So in no way can an f/1.8 lens "equal" an f/1.4 lens in terms of lens speed.
If one examines the complex optical designs of these new S-Line Nikkors with their large number of elements, it is impossible that their T-values be similar to the f-numbers. Even the best of coatings incurs some loss of transmitted light.
Maybe I should have used a number > 1.8 in my example, ROTFL! Substitute 1.9 or 2.0. True that the T-stop will be > f-stop in spite of new coatings. Even with 99.999%(or whatever) transmission at a glass-air interface there is some measurable light loss especially as the element number increases. The T-stop for the new Noct may be > 1.0.
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If the lens was really under corrected for spherical aberrations the background bokeh would be larger (and softer) than a well corrected lens, so it might look like an f/1.4 lens... but that is unlikely to be the case here, the MTF charts are very high... :o
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coming to maths
You might be twice as likely to have ONE card fail. But the probability that TWO cards fail at the same time is something completely different
But maybe this was only an ironic statement and i didtn't get it
There is still a possibility that a second slot could be in the future grip. Let us wait and see. LZ
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LZ, I have seen this mentioned a few places on the NET. I cannot think of any Grips, of any brand, that have had this feature. Any that you know of? I am not really bothered by single card. When I was shooting a lot of Soccer I only used for overflow but , in reality, always had time to change cards. When I used to have great locations for birds used to use in same way. My D700, Df, D300, EM1, a7ii and a7rii only had single card and never a problem. One of the tings I really like having the top LED. Battery and shots remaining :) .
Cheers,
Tom
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Sten, I thought you were our friend whom tried them all ;D
I have some friends. And yes, I have tried a lot in my very modest life. But this one is really from a friend who has access to more brands of camera gear than even our esteemed Birna. I guess the standard up to now has been the EVF of the Leica SL line.
My plan is to get rid of my Sony/Zony and start with the Z6/24-70/FTZ and take if from there.
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Dual cards slots are reassuring, but since huge capacity cards are commonly available now, you have the free choice to change cards after several hundred shots, or several thousand shots. Either beats having to change after 36 shots.
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Standards, or requirements, may have changed. There used to be a risk of losing one film roll due to wrong manipulation in the darkroom, or possibly several due to drowning, massive X-Ray, etc.
I do not know how the figures compare with the probability of "losing" an SD card (usually not resulting in a total loss of contained pictures). I had two cases in 15 years (one CF, one SD, in the second case from a not-so-reputable brand), and only a few pictures were FUBAR.
The gang of US wedding photographers seems very voicy on Nikon Rumors :) though. But, given the overwhelming range of products, there is no need to get ballistic about any particular (missing) feature.
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The lack of a second card slot is what is presented to the market as of now. If that's unacceptable, get something with two slots.
Humans are obsessed with lack of features instead of being happy with what's available.
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I'm just an amateur whom only shoots non critical stuff so if some images are lost so be it.
Never had a card failure with SD and XQD seems to be even more reliable so I really couldn't care less.
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Could the camera be setup to offload its photos over WLAN?
That could help for more critical work.
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Yes, it can.
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Thanks Birna. So that should satisfy the wedding photogs.
What device wouuld you practically recomend as photo backup?
Maybe a wireless SSD?
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Download the complete specification pamphlet and investigate all the myriad of possibilities these Z-bodies offer.
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z7_Z6_Brochure.pdf
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Could the camera be setup to offload its photos over WLAN?
That could help for more critical work.
I noticed in the brochures that there is now this capability to connect to a PC or laptop.
I wonder what kind of speeds are obtainable, and if the transfer can be seamless in the background. Is it possible to transfer large files feasibly?
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There is an approx. 400 Mb/s transfer specification somewhere in that brochure.
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LZ, I have seen this mentioned a few places on the NET. I cannot think of any Grips, of any brand, that have had this feature. Any that you know of? I am not really bothered by single card. When I was shooting a lot of Soccer I only used for overflow but , in reality, always had time to change cards. When I used to have great locations for birds used to use in same way. My D700, Df, D300, EM1, a7ii and a7rii only had single card and never a problem. One of the tings I really like having the top LED. Battery and shots remaining :) .
Cheers,
Tom
Hi, Tom! Yes, some system, in the past, had the second slot in the grip. Oly, if I am not wrong. Today, I believe, when almost all cameras can do video, people definitely need a second slot. I am not among them, I, mostly, with you, but who really knows, what I'll need tomorrow ... Best whishes, LZ
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My plan is to get rid of my Sony/Zony and start with the Z6/24-70/FTZ and take if from there.
Aha, any cool lenses you plan to take along to the Z6?
A question to all current mirrorless users btw :)
I've posted my set of lenses which I've collected over the years for the a7RII and intend to keep using when I make jump to the Z platform, curious which gems you guys have discovered that work well on mirrorless?
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The new S-Lenses using the Z-Mount could be ground-breaking. (Read entire article, good stuff toward the latter part)
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2018/08/im-suspicious-of-nikon-and-its-sonys-fault.html
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More: http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review
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A little side note, from the Z7/Z6 brochure, page 53:
"Nikon’s Capture NX-D software is the best way to process original RAW (NEF/ NRW) files without losing any of their extremely rich data. You can adjust options such as exposure compensation, white balance, Picture Control, Active D-Lighting and noise reduction using a slider. It also incorporates color control points that let you edit the hue, brightness, saturation, contrast, etc. of a selected area. JPEG and TIFF files are also compatible." ....
Just had a look at the brochure and page in question and the screengrab image next to the text does indeed have a colour control point edit showing.
Never been a fan of NX-D, it's buggy slow and interface seems all muddled up compared to NX2 in a few areas. But at least a modern NX2 alternative finally comes to town.
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Could the camera be setup to offload its photos over WLAN?
That could help for more critical work.
You should need WT-7, I guess?
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Following Ross harvey's review I posted yesterday, found Two more initial assessments of the Nikon Z7:
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/a-few-more-thoughts-on.html (http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/a-few-more-thoughts-on.html)
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/25/new-era-for-nikon-nikon-z7-camera-hands-on-report.aspx/#more-125769 (https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/25/new-era-for-nikon-nikon-z7-camera-hands-on-report.aspx/#more-125769)
to help access - links to the 2 official PDFs on Nikon Z
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z7_Z6_Brochure.pdf
(https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z7_Z6_Brochure.pdf)
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf
(https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf)
this first review using a preproduction Z7 reports 800-1000 shots with the preproduction Z7:
".... The battery usage wasn't fully optimised at that point, and I was told it would be improved when released. Having said that, I was getting around 800-1000 images per battery. Update: I've just finished presenting and shooting at the Nikon UK launch event in London. The official rating is around 330 shots per battery. I have no idea how they ended up at that figure as I had shot a shade under 500 images at the event and only 1/5th of the battery was used."
http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review (http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review)
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Download the complete specification pamphlet and investigate all the myriad of possibilities these Z-bodies offer.
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z7_Z6_Brochure.pdf
a good read :)
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Following Ross harvey's review I posted yesterday, found Two more initial assessments of the Nikon Z7:
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/a-few-more-thoughts-on.html (http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/a-few-more-thoughts-on.html)
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/25/new-era-for-nikon-nikon-z7-camera-hands-on-report.aspx/#more-125769 (https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/25/new-era-for-nikon-nikon-z7-camera-hands-on-report.aspx/#more-125769)
to help access - links to the 2 official PDFs on Nikon Z
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z7_Z6_Brochure.pdf
(https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z7_Z6_Brochure.pdf)
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf
(https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf)
Clearly, we will need careful review from a non-marketing connected source in order to get a better handle on just how the Z's check out. I have no idea how they would explain the shot count differences with the battery, it's not what I would term a minor discrepancy shot count. So, what other "real world" experiences await early adopters? That's rhetorical, but you get the idea. ;)
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You should need WT-7, I guess?
WT-7 gives more range but these cameras have built in wifi capability to transfer images to PC.
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WT-7 gives more range but these cameras have built in wifi capability to transfer images to PC.
I wouldn't hold my breath on the (probable) transfer speed of the built in Wifi system.
While they claim AC wifi built in, it's not going to be the higher specced 3x3 mode, which gives decent transfer speed.
The WT-7 may have the 2x2 mode for them to claim the 866Mbps transfer rate.
So using the (camera)Wifi to transfer full RAW images(probably 80+Mb file sizes) will take a while in a mobile situation. If you backup jpgs, it may work quickly.
My personal feelings of the dual card situation is indifference. D800E has dual card slots, I only use the CF!
I had an SD card in there for capturing video for a while, never used it, pulled the SD card for another device, never replaced it.
I'm thinking that it may have been a deliberate choice to allow them an update path for the future. (ie. in the same way they updated the D300 -> D300s) or an upgrade model (possible Z8 or something like that).
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Well, the brochure mentions 433Mbps as the built in wi-fi's max transfer speed (according to IEEE standard) but notes that the actual rates may differ.
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Call me a contrarian, no problem. 8) But the more I read about these new Z-series cameras, the less enthused I am. The initial exhilaration pumped up by the teasers and the hype has completely vaned. At this point I am now 100% certain I will skip this first round. Fine cameras in their own right, no doubt, but not for me. I will have a keen eye for a Z8 or Z1 whatever the high end model will be, probably at the Tokyo olympics?
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I agree with Peter. It is not clear to me that, until the new 58mm f/0.95 lens comes out, there is any image you could take with a Z series camera that you couldn't take with an existing Nikon DSLR.
There's no question that the engineering is superb.
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I see that the Nikon Z flange to sensor distance is 16mm but the Nikon 1 distance was 17mm. There may be some scope for adapting something like the 32mm f/1.2 or 70-300mm Nikon 1 lenses.
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On the FTZ adapter and compatibility with non-CPU lenses, according to Ken Rockwell:
"Although it has no aperture ring feeler, the Z system measures exposure the instant after an old manual-focus lens stops down to its taking aperture the instant before it shoots. This is an even more accurate exposure system because it cancels any inaccuracy in how the diaphragm stops down, which is better than any DSLR."
Sounds promising if true...
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On the FTZ adapter and compatibility with non-CPU lenses, according to Ken Rockwell:
"Although it has no aperture ring feeler, the Z system measures exposure the instant after an old manual-focus lens stops down to its taking aperture the instant before it shoots. This is an even more accurate exposure system because it cancels any inaccuracy in how the diaphragm stops down, which is better than any DSLR."
Sounds promising if true...
That is true of virtually any mirrorless systems, which is why Nikon 1 was so disappointing. In addition, with the mirrorless systems, you don't need to worry about the stray light entering from the finder eyepiece to confuse the light meter, which contribute to the accuracy of metering.
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I see that the Nikon Z flange to sensor distance is 16mm but the Nikon 1 distance was 17mm. There may be some scope for adapting something like the 32mm f/1.2 or 70-300mm Nikon 1 lenses.
Image circle for the Nikon 1 lenses is unlikely to cover FF sensor unless at very close range. As sad as it is true, the ultimate potential of the Z line is going to be achieved with lenses designed specifically for it.
That said the short distance from flange to sensor gives new life to a wide variety of lenses with a more “classic” or idiosyncratic rendering like the “O” Nikkor, heligons and other scavenged lenses, at least for the very slim segment of the world which pays any attention to the archaic and obsolete.
Can’t wait for our local experts here to get hands on one and see where the boundaries and opportunities are.
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>Image circle for the Nikon 1 lenses is unlikely to cover FF sensor unless at very close range.
Of course. But I recall comments that the lenses appeared capable of covering more than just the Nikon 1 sensor. There may be scope cropping into a DX sized image, for example. On the Z7, that would still be plenty of pixels, and one more option for the photographer.
And for the Heligons and whatever, rather more usable options then we presently get from the F mount's 46.5 mm flange distance.
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time to use this thing on the Z :o :o :o
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time to use this thing on the Z :o :o :o
With image stabilization I’m sure it will get some great shots on dark and cloudy days.
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The FTZ adapter has no AI- aperture coupling lever (and no aperture indexing itself of course), but so did the FT1 for the Nikon 1 system. The FT1 has a tiny mechanical contact that is activated (and indicating) when the lens is set to minimum aperture. According to the pictures this is the same feature wih the FTZ.
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That is true of virtually any mirror less systems[...]
Yes, but I'm assuming with non-CPU Nikkors, the FTZ adapter holds the aperture open until the picture is taken, then releases the aperture tab so the lens stops down ... the Z cameras need to wait for this to happen so they can meter when stopped down before making the exposure. This could mean there is a very slight delay in taking the picture when non-CPU lenses are used. Other mirrorless systems lack any sort of aperture linkage with F-mount lenses, so the lens is already stopped down before the picture is taken and the exposure can be taken immediately.
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Yes, but I'm assuming with non-CPU Nikkors, the FTZ adapter holds the aperture open until the picture is taken, then releases the aperture tab so the lens stops down ... the Z cameras need to wait for this to happen so they can meter when stopped down before making the exposure. This could mean there is a very slight delay in taking the picture when non-CPU lenses are used. Other mirrorless systems lack any sort of aperture linkage with F-mount lenses, so the lens is already stopped down before the picture is taken and the exposure can be taken immediately.
This should mean that is not possible to lock the exposure, recompose and than shot. I think is more pratical to let the camera meter at the actual selected aperture as Sony does.
Do you think there will be the option to choose the way the camera meter, wide open (with the supposed lag and no E-lock) or stopped down?
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As long as there is a stop-down lever present, but no aperture follower, the only way the camera can make a correct exposure is on-the-fly metering when the camera actually stops down the lens for taking a picture. If non-CPU lens data is entered, however, the camera at least can make a quite reliable estimate of the exposure in advance, before actual shooting takes place.
If there is no aperture lever in the lens itself, metering would be simply at the set aperture. Possible the metering options then would be restricted to A, M in this case. Of course, if the mounted lens has no aperture linkage and has a preset aperture ring, like old lenses from '50s or '60s, then there is a high risk of getting the exposure entirely wrong (unless the in-the-fly correction is performed, which only can be done with ISO or shutter speed adjustment).
For myself, I have verified that CPU-modified lenses* work as they should, with the caveat aperture has to be set from the camera side. Thus, good bye to the ergonomically optimal approach of using both hands. That's the price to be paid for "progress".
* of which I have a large number in F mount
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IMHO the two card slot issue is not an issue, you should always have a back up camera, memory card, flash if needed and lens, for any critical shooting where a re-shoot is not possible.
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With image stabilization I’m sure it will get some great shots on dark and cloudy days.
yes! I am hoping that I get 48month 0% interest from Fujiya camera :o :o :o
i want the Z7 but I can barely afford the Z6 ::)
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As long as there is a stop-down lever present, but no aperture follower, the only way the camera can make a correct exposure is on-the-fly metering when the camera actually stops down the lens for taking a picture. If non-CPU lens data is entered, however, the camera at least can make a quite reliable estimate of the exposure in advance, before actual shooting takes place.
If there is no aperture lever in the lens itself, metering would be simply at the set aperture. Possible the metering options then would be restricted to A, M in this case. Of course, if the mounted lens has no aperture linkage and has a preset aperture ring, like old lenses from '50s or '60s, then there is a high risk of getting the exposure entirely wrong (unless the in-the-fly correction is performed, which only can be done with ISO or shutter speed adjustment).
For myself, I have verified that CPU-modified lenses* work as they should, with the caveat aperture has to be set from the camera side. Thus, good bye to the ergonomically optimal approach of using both hands. That's the price to be paid for "progress".
* of which I have a large number in F mount
I have just tried my FT1 with a non CPU Ais lens, of course I can not input lens date on the V1, but if the function on the FTZ is comparable it is very ackward to use those lenses. The V1 one stops down the lens, and try to brighten the view finder, so you get a somewhat ok image to look at, but in dim lighting it may not work well. I hope you will be able to test this when you get your samples, and prove me wrong. Otherwise the Df has to last very long.
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Following Ross harvey's review I posted yesterday, found Two more initial assessments of the Nikon Z7:
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/a-few-more-thoughts-on.html
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/25/new-era-for-nikon-nikon-z7-camera-hands-on-report.aspx/#more-125769
to help access - links to the 2 official PDFs on Nikon Z
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z7_Z6_Brochure.pdf
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf
>>>
Clearly, we will need careful review from a non-marketing connected source in order to get a better handle on just how the Z's check out. I have no idea how they would explain the shot count differences with the battery, it's not what I would term a minor discrepancy shot count. So, what other "real world" experiences await early adopters? That's rhetorical, but you get the idea. ;)
one of these USA Nikon reps seem to be well informed by the optical engineers: https://www.adorama.com/g/nikon-mirrorless?utm_source=rflaid63773 (https://www.adorama.com/g/nikon-mirrorless?utm_source=rflaid63773)
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If one really wants to make use of the reduced weight and compactness of this mirrorless it would be firsthand the best to take a Z Camera an FTZ and a pancake type Nikkor-F lens.
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I have just tried my FT1 with a non CPU Ais lens, of course I can not input lens date on the V1, but if the function on the FTZ is comparable it is very ackward to use those lenses. The V1 one stops down the lens, and try to brighten the view finder, so you get a somewhat ok image to look at, but in dim lighting it may not work well. I hope you will be able to test this when you get your samples, and prove me wrong. Otherwise the Df has to last very long.
I'm not sure what you want to do,,, but here is how to cheat Nikon1 with a custom FT1 ;)
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,479.msg3577.html#msg3577
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so many people complaining about the 1 XQD slot in my social media feed :o :o :o
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so many people complaining about the 1 XQD slot in my social media feed :o :o :o
Well, they never loved the Df either... :o
I might decide for a Z7 after all, if I manage to fund it ! I might have a "corporate" shoot for a 100+ portraits in my school (paid mission); so it might be a nice Xmas present for myself ;D
I'm still hesitating, though, between a D850 and the Z7... But whatever the drawbacks, I feel that the size and lightness of the Zx is more what I'm looking for nowadays. And those lenses quality seems the way to go (with the adapter of course as I won't drop my old lenses that are so much fun to use) !!! ::)
We'll see what happens in October !
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If the Z camera had 2 slots, the complaints would be it should have 3 ...
Shot most of my digital epoch (nearly 20 years now) with one-slot cameras and managed to pull off some shots nonetheless.
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If the Z camera had 2 slots, the complaints would be it should have 3 ...
Shot most of my digital epoch (nearly 20 years now) with one-slot cameras and managed to pull off some shots nonetheless.
I fully agree, from film times to today, many of us were used to manage with what we had (ever tried marriages with an M Leica, sort of three hand sport ? :D). Today we have a full choice of cameras and lenses, mostly affordable, and with a lot of ease to use and thousands "gimmicks" to be sure you don't miss you grandchild football game...
I can understand the evolution of photography through time and the tendency to always push back the limits we had before, but this frenzy against the Zx is just unbelievable ! Those guys just don't seem to be able to cope with a change of paradigm, as if they were the real old grumpy luddites with new social media tools !
While I can understand those who prefer to wait or are not interested at all, there is a swelling of "hate" (that alas goes for other things too), instead of a having a natural curiosity about the means and the end of this new saga... :(
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I'm not sure what you want to do,,, but here is how to cheat Nikon1 with a custom FT1 ;)
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,479.msg3577.html#msg3577
I have seen this brain surgery, but I just want the same ease of use as on the Df with old Nikkors ;)
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IMHO the two card slot issue is not an issue, you should always have a back up camera, memory card, flash if needed and lens, for any critical shooting where a re-shoot is not possible.
Not quite the same, unless you're able to take the same shots with both cameras at the same time :P
...I wouldn't be surprised if you have managed that :D
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I can understand the evolution of photography through time and the tendency to always push back the limits we had before, but this frenzy against the Zx is just unbelievable ! Those guys just don't seem to be able to cope with a change of paradigm, as if they were the real old grumpy luddites with new social media tools !
While I can understand those who prefer to wait or are not interested at all, there is a swelling of "hate" (that alas goes for other things too), instead of a having a natural curiosity about the means and the end of this new saga... :(
People have a natural resistance to change while change is the only constant in live, you can either ignore it or embrace it...
Most like the safety and comfort of familiarity though but the learning starts when we venture outside of our comfort zones...
As Steve Jobs used to say; Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish :)
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Everybody who knows me, noticed probably that I’m not a big ML fan, especially because I have no acquaintances with the EVF, despite having tested the best around. So be it. I have no special requirements for video or silent shooting, so the Z series are not made especially for me. But I like the construction and design of the Z’s. And probably, we will have a big (quality) surprise with the S line of lenses, which may outperform everything what exists. And the latter would certainly be very appealing, even for a «old OVF fart » like me.
What is unbelievable, is the Z bashing in the media, with particular emphasis on battery duration, one slot card, and some other features. Most of the people, even the ones who had the camera in their hands, cannot judge at present. The only one of which I can give an opinion is the single card feature. Although, almost all of my cameras have dual slots, I never used the second slot as a backup / parallel slot, but only as an overflow one. Even the latter happened on rare occasions. So for me, the single slot is OK. And, as far as I know, nobody had any problems with XQD cards which went down the drain
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I wonder if those doing all the Z bashing re the single slot are the same idiots who bashed the Df for one slot.
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I wonder if those doing all the Z bashing re the single slot are the same ...
That was not very nice
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here's an interview by Cameraworld UK with the Nikon Product manager, Tim Carter, who states the positioning of the Z MILC wrt D850 etc.
The context to the EVF, IBIS, Video are now clearer (at least to my reading). Note VR benefit is 5 stops max even with VR on a lens. Notably, the explanation on the huge effort Nikon have devoted to the AF underscores that it is customizable. A pity the clickbaiters posing as reviewers on the www and trolls did not wait to read this context.
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/nikon-z7-and-z6-what-was-nikons-thinking-and-how-will-the-z-system-evolve
(https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/nikon-z7-and-z6-what-was-nikons-thinking-and-how-will-the-z-system-evolve)
This is worth watching - and the examples vindicate my strategy on clandestine aspects of wildlife photography:
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/26/adoramas-nikon-z-launch-event-with-corey-rich-and-michelle-valberg-starts-in-15-minutes.aspx/ (https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/26/adoramas-nikon-z-launch-event-with-corey-rich-and-michelle-valberg-starts-in-15-minutes.aspx/)
And 1 NB lesson is the AF has to be optimized to respective tasks. Getting at this optimization lies up the slope of a learning curve ;) ;)
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Thanks a lot for those links ! The video interview was impressive and the images quite fantastic !!! :o
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Thanks, very nice article indeed.
The last paragraph says it all:
We're not abandoning DSLRs. Both systems will work alongside each other. What we can uniquely offer is the best DSLR system, and the best mirrorless system, side by side. The best of both worlds.
Nikon is merely enlarging their ecosystem to cater the needs of both worlds, some of us will stick with the DSLR while others will go all in to mirrorless or use both platforms to combine the benefits of the two to handle a wider spectrum of challenges.
For me the right balance currently is to use short and medium (manual focus) lenses ranging from 15mm to 125mm on mirrorless and use the D500 plus 200-500VR for the long action stuff, when the AF on mirrorless becomes as reliable under challenging light conditions as with a DSLR I might go all mirrorless again but for now I've learned my lesson the hard way that it isn't so at the moment (though I haven't tried the Sony A9 or Nikon Z6 & Z7 yet).
There's no good or bad choice as we all have our specific needs and restrictions, as long as we acknowledge that fact we can continue to coexist peacefully in our little community :)
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the grip doesnt have a shutter button :o :o :o
edit: just speculating. it doesnt have contacts underneath but maybe it will be like the D90 ::)
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Good info, thanks for sharing it
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the grip doesnt have a shutter button :o :o :o
I’ve never really understood the need for a grip. Most of the noise seems to be coming from people who see this new camera as limiting their choices instead of expanding them. Mirrorless fills a hole and offers new possibilities, it doesn’t obsolete the current line up. Nikon has been clear about how both DSLR and mirrorless co-exist, but the negative commenters seem to think their world is ending instead of being expanded.
I think the Z line will be very helpful in the sort of photography I do. I photograph in low light with old lenses so the stabilization will be helpful. The tilt screen in the back will help too - many times I hold the camera over head and hope I’ve framed correctly. My eyes are older so being able to zoom the viewfinder for fine focus will be great. Silent shooting is great to eliminate distraction. And the short flange distance opens opportunity to use a huge amount of weird old lenses. And on top of that, the world of video is new to me.
I think there is a large group of photographers are very slow to adapt to change. In some ways, I am one - I’ve never learned how to use autofocus, but one should see change as oppportunity rather than enemy.
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I think the Z line will be very helpful in the sort of photography I do. I photograph in low light with old lenses so the stabilization will be helpful. The tilt screen in the back will help too - many times I hold the camera over head and hope I’ve framed correctly. My eyes are older so being able to zoom the viewfinder for fine focus will be great. Silent shooting is great to eliminate distraction. And the short flange distance opens opportunity to use a huge amount of weird old lenses. And on top of that, the world of video is new to me.
i understand where youre coming from :o :o :o
i cant trust my eyesight as well :(
by the way, this is just my speculation. there are no contacts underneath it. the D90 didn't have it too but it does support a vertical button so maybe we will see it
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMTtAi5oPoo
Steve Perry's video :o :o :o
No, not the Journey ex-frontman ::)
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In the interview with Tim Carter (Digital Camera World link in post #243), Carter talks about the grip and states:
"Basically we're just announcing that we will be developing a battery pack. It will take two batteries, and boost therefore the battery life of the product. But I don't think it will have a portrait orientation shutter button or a control wheel."
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In the interview with Tim Carter (Digital Camera World link in post #243), Carter talks about the grip and states:
"Basically we're just announcing that we will be developing a battery pack. It will take two batteries, and boost therefore the battery life of the product. But I don't think it will have a portrait orientation shutter button or a control wheel."
no :o :o :o
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Quote from: Netr on Today at 04:04:43
In the interview with Tim Carter (Digital Camera World link in post #243), Carter talks about the grip and states:
"Basically we're just announcing that we will be developing a battery pack. It will take two batteries, and boost therefore the battery life of the product. But I don't think it will have a portrait orientation shutter button or a control wheel."
no :o :o :o
This is NOT what we need to hear! If it is true, then let's hope Nikon remedy the deficiency as priority. No mention of this Z battery pack packing the EN-EL18's also sounds bad
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Not quite the same, unless you're able to take the same shots with both cameras at the same time :P
...I wouldn't be surprised if you have managed that :D
Obviously I check that I have the image on the one camera I'm using all the time when it's important shootings! I'm not tandem shooting :o
What do you do if the lens fails, the battery, the aperture follower etc. - There are so many things that can go wrong besides the cards,,, then your in trouble if your backup is two cards in one non functioning camera!
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Thanks, very nice article indeed.
The last paragraph says it all:
Nikon is merely enlarging their ecosystem to cater the needs of both worlds, some of us will stick with the DSLR while others will go all in to mirrorless or use both platforms to combine the benefits of the two to handle a wider spectrum of challenges.
Yes. It's early days obviously but the outlook across the Greater Nikon Ecosystem is exciting - Sure, enlarging toward wider frontiers :-)
For me the right balance currently is to use short and medium (manual focus) lenses ranging from 15mm to 125mm on mirrorless and use the D500 plus 200-500VR for the long action stuff, when the AF on mirrorless becomes as reliable under challenging light conditions as with a DSLR I might go all mirrorless again but for now I've learned my lesson the hard way that it isn't so at the moment (though I haven't tried the Sony A9 or Nikon Z6 & Z7 yet).
For my needs, I plan to use the Z7 should be perfect for close up and landscape, especially in rougher terrain where a lighter system makes one more mobile. But I will also put the silent mode and allied features to work with subjects, where this MILC sounds optimal for stalking and strategic camera-trapping - ie close encounters by proxy and other. The potential to couple the Z6 / Z7 with the 300 PF and now 500 PF opens up tantalizing horizons.....
My DSLRs will remain core workhorses for wildlife - action obviously. Especially where tricky contexts challenges the AF; so, I foresee scant changes in the job description of the D850. Nevertheless, I rarely shoot the buffer-straining sustained bursts at 9 / 10 fps, which are all the rage with some pundits. So the Z7 should see even wider usage. Where conditions allow, 2-3 cameras will use complementary lenses (eg in a hide / vehicle etc). The sharing of the ENEL15b battery across the Nikon DSLR trifecta and these Z MILCs is a big bonus to lower costs and logistics (charging etc!).
There's no good or bad choice as we all have our specific needs and restrictions, as long as we acknowledge that fact we can continue to coexist peacefully in our little community :)
100% correct. We are privileged to live in these times with such superb technology. Which is why all the +ve's embodied in the Df with MF lenses etc endure :D
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This is NOT what we need to hear! If it is true, then let's hope Nikon remedy the deficiency as priority. No mention of this Z battery pack packing the EN-EL18's also sounds bad
I guess as the battery pack fits to the camera body it might be too slim to take the EN-EL18 type of battery.
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In my understanding, the battery pack is for videographers (with two 15b) as they never need the "portrait" (vertical) shooting option. For photographers, I guess we'll do it the old way (spare batteries in the pocket) as I'm not even sure the EVF can support all the menus choices in the vertical width ??? Maybe that's why the eye piece is a rectangle and not the classical (now) circle.
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I have what is probably an ignorant question (aren't they all). If I want to use many of my old lenses like the Nikkor "O" CRT lens, where I never have had enough room for a wider view, how will I do this with the Z7? I suppose the adapter that Nikon offers will try to recreate what I already have? Will I need to have a shorter adapter to get more in view for the CRT lens or how will that work? Inquiring minds want to know.
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The FTZ adapter will, as you surmised, just recreate the situation you encounter today with your Nikon DSLRs. Thus what one needs is a generic short-flange adapter ending in a Z-mount (for the camera) and M42 or similar at the business end.
However, once the Nikkor-O is brought to a position corresponding to its optimum magnification (1:4-1:4.4), one gains nothing more than field curvature and sharpness decline in the peripheral parts of the image. Thus "a wider view" (ie. focus to infinity with that particular lens is not feasible unless you accept the severe loss of image image this entails. I can already do infinity with the Nikkor-O on my CX and m43-format cameras and while infinity focus is interestingly interpreted on each system, quality suffers badly.
As soon as I'm familiar enough with the Z system, I'll purchase some factory mounts and start experimenting with exotic lenses on the already ordered Z-bodies. Should be some fun.
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There should hopefully be enough clearance in the FTZ for adapting the 10 mm OP Fisheye to a ZX body. It would be much easier to use this lens then than it is with an SLR.
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The 10 OP should fit straight onto the FTZ adapter. There certainly is room enough inside the FTZ.
The same will apply to the 6/5.6 (if you are among the chosen few to own it), 7.5/5.6, 8/8, and possibly the 2.1 cm f/4. ('possibly' because that 21mm has a peculiar lens mount that might not fit).
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"Basically we're just announcing that we will be developing a battery pack. It will take two batteries, and boost therefore the battery life of the product. But I don't think it will have a portrait orientation shutter button or a control wheel."
That would be pretty shockingly bad. A battery pack without controls. Are we back in 1980?
I would understand if this camera was just for video - but it's not. People shoot verticals. For me the purpose of the battery pack on DSLRs has always been to get better support and posture for vertical shooting.
Perhaps the rep just doesn't know and the battery pack is very early in its development.
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the grip doesnt have a shutter button :o :o :o
edit: just speculating. it doesnt have contacts underneath but maybe it will be like the D90 ::)
My best guess:
The battery door comes off, there must be contacts inside this battery compartment for grip communication.
I also use grips for the D810, D200 and D7000 for better grip shooting verticals :)
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,,,
As soon as I'm familiar enough with the Z system, I'll purchase some factory mounts and start experimenting with exotic lenses on the already ordered Z-bodies. Should be some fun.
Looking forward to that journey as well ;) However there will be a dedicated Nikon Z CPU needed or a modified short length FTZ adapter with F CPU build in like the FT-1 modification we did,,,
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Looking forward to that journey as well ;) However there will be a dedicated Nikon Z CPU needed or a modified short length FTZ adapter with F CPU build in like the FT-1 modification we did,,,
I have this need strongly in mind, but as of now, no details of the Z communication protocol are known to me. Will only be weeks before the first camera arrives, though.
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As to the forthcoming battery grip, Timer Carter at the Nikon UK pre-launch on the 22nd clearly stated the unit is in development thus no details are confirmed except it should provide double batteries.
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Apparently a D5 like Z camera is also in the works which will high likely have the vertical grip with buttons, big battery and a second card slot.
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/26/nikon-executive-on-whether-nikon-will-release-a-pro-model-like-the-d5-in-the-z-line-count-on-it.aspx/
So just wait a little longer when those features are a must have :)
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Apparently a D5 like Z camera is also in the works which will high likely have the vertical grip with buttons, big battery and a second card slot.
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/26/nikon-executive-on-whether-nikon-will-release-a-pro-model-like-the-d5-in-the-z-line-count-on-it.aspx/
So just wait a little longer when those features are a must have :)
Thanks JA, I missed this input somehow ;)
Here are the highlights:
Nikon is going to make great products both in DSLR and mirrorless. Nikon will keep releasing new products in DSLR.
- Nikon carefully examined from scratch and concluded that 55mm and 16mm are the best for an inner diameter and a flange focal distance, respectively, in terms of optical performance. That's why a new mount was born.
- In development, Nikon focused on reliability, robustness, and ruggedness which pros and enthusiasts appreciate. It ended up being the Z which is more like the DSLR in design.
- Regarding the EVF, quality was a top priority so that pros see it as good as an optical viewfinder.
- Nikon first decided the size of a new body which Nikon thinks users are happy to accept. Then, everything else was put into that body.
- Ikegami didn't mention clearly but said that the Z's rival is what you think it is.
- The Z's advantage is a high optical performance. The lens is designed for the highest image quality and its optical resolution surpasses that of DSLR's lens. He says that the Z is superior to the DSLR in both still and video photography.
- He expects users to see the Z to be equivalent to the D850 in image quality.
- On whether Nikon releases a pro model like the D5 in the Z line, he said: "Count on it!"
- He anticipates that the third party will reverse-engineer the Z lens.
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Personally I havent used a vertical grip since parting with the D3s many moons ago to keep the cameras clean and compact for travel but do understand that some see this as an essential feature.
Attached an image from DPReview where the Z7 is surrounded by the D850 and the A7RIII (same size as my a7RII), the mirrorless cameras are a lot smaller and lighter so treating them as a DSLR accessory wise might not be applicable anymore as they might be kind off contradictory to downsizing the camera system.
The second image is a quick snapshot of my a7RII with the same Zeiss 35/1.4 FE as in the DPReview image for size reference. The grip of the Sony was a little on the small side for me and as I was also looking for an Arca L-plate I've bought a camera specific Arca plate on eBay which also acts as a grip extender to kill two birds with one stone. I leave the bottom plate attached permanently and will add the vertical "L" section when I plan to use a tripod.
No idea what strap will come with the Zee cameras but the Sony's shipped with the regular brightly coloured DSLR sized straps which looked kinda ridiculous so I've replaced the strap with an all leather strap from Artisan & Artist which is a lot more compact (half the width) and is a way better match with my old skool manual focus lenses.
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Apparently a D5 like Z camera is also in the works which will high likely have the vertical grip with buttons, big battery and a second card slot.
That will likely be an expensive, modest resolution, lower base ISO dynamic range, high fps camera, and we don't know when it might appear (2013?). It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea. People will want vertical grips with controls and double card slots with less expensive and high resolution models as well.
A battery grip was not made available for the D7500 and lack of contacts suggests it is an afterthought in the Z6/Z7. I can understand that battery grips might not sell well without additional features (they used to provide a boost and in the D850 again this is the case) and they tend to get cloned and 3rd party ones sell at much lower cost so Nikon might not be very motivated to make them. But in this case it seems due to the battery life it may be an essential component of the camera, thus the user interface controls should be present also on the grip. Nikon should have provided those controls also on the WT-7 transmitter if they actually wanted people to buy it (there isn't even a tripod socket!) but a well-designed grip or transmitter can sell well. In the case of the Z6/Z7 since there is built in wi-fi to PC then the transmitter is perhaps not a priority but nevertheless for DSLR users it should have mimicked the shape and functionality of a vertical grip.
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That will likely be an expensive, modest resolution, lower base ISO dynamic range, high fps camera, and we don't know when it might appear (2013?). It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea. People will want vertical grips with controls and double card slots with less expensive and high resolution models as well.
Tokyo Olympics (July 2020) is probably the proverbial rubicon for Nikon to bridge in committing to a high-spec Pro MILC. And it could be one impressive camera with the Games so close to home. In the past, Nikon has also put out legendary optics for Olympics close to home (eg the 300 f2.8 in 1972 - Sapporo). Recent prominent announcements include the D5 (Jan 2016), D4 (Jan 2012) with the legendary D3 in 2007 so not in sync with Beijing in August 2008.
A battery grip was not made available for the D7500 and lack of contacts suggests it is an afterthought in the Z6/Z7. I can understand that battery grips might not sell well without additional features (they used to provide a boost and in the D850 again this is the case) and they tend to get cloned and 3rd party ones sell at much lower cost so Nikon might not be very motivated to make them. But in this case it seems due to the battery life it may be an essential component of the camera, thus the user interface controls should be present also on the grip. Nikon should have provided those controls also on the WT-7 transmitter if they actually wanted people to buy it (there isn't even a tripod socket!) but a well-designed grip or transmitter can sell well. In the case of the Z6/Z7 since there is built in wi-fi to PC then the transmitter is perhaps not a priority but nevertheless for DSLR users it should have mimicked the shape and functionality of a vertical grip.
Nikon could add much more functionality with customizable controls etc into their DSLR grips to aid shooting portrait. For MILC, besides packing more charge in the grip (aka battery pack), the grip with batteries will help the lighter Z6 or Z7 balance shooting heavier lenses.
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I have what is probably an ignorant question (aren't they all). If I want to use many of my old lenses like the Nikkor "O" CRT lens, where I never have had enough room for a wider view, how will I do this with the Z7? I suppose the adapter that Nikon offers will try to recreate what I already have? Will I need to have a shorter adapter to get more in view for the CRT lens or how will that work? Inquiring minds want to know.
What could be made is an adjustable adapter, and FTZ where you can adjust the lenght.
Could be used for adding variable extension to for instance wide angle F-mount lenses. sort of an extension ring but the possibility of having negative and positive extension.
You could select freely to add for instance 1 mm if extension on the Zeiss Otus lenses, to give the possibility for a slightly closer crop ;) Would give minimal image degradation.
I have no clue if such an adapter / extender will ever come from the third party pirates,,, But definitely a possible DIY hack
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the mirrorless cameras are a lot smaller and lighter so treating them as a DSLR accessory wise might not be applicable anymore as they might be kind off contra dictionary to downsizing the camera system.
Z 24-70/4 weight 500g DSLR 24-85/3.5-4.5 460g
Z 35/1.8 weight 370g DSLR 35/1.8 (FX) 305g
Z 50/1.8 weight 415g DSLR 50/1.8 185g
Next lens on the roadmap is a 58/0.95 which is likely > 1kg in weight.
There is as of now no evidence of lighter weight lenses for Z, on the contrary!
There are opposing trends in ILC lenses basically. One is to make for smaller and lighter weight, Micro Four Thirds and Fujifilm's offerings are along those lines, as are Sony's camera bodies and to a lesser extent lenses.
But there is another trend which is to maximize image quality in the presence of high-resolution sensors, and this leads to either extremely expensive lenses (Leica) or heavier and larger lenses (such as Sigma Art and Zeiss Otus) than in the past.
Nikon is clearly aiming to make higher quality lenses than previously and this means there won't be weight loss realized on the lens side, except perhaps in some wide angles which are not yet presented.
The camera body is lighter but since it seems to need a bunch of batteries this lightness is also perhaps not as much realized as some hope. Perhaps over time they can optimize power consumption and the firmware but it seems at first there will be a lot of people purchasing battery grips.
Furthermore the professionals who do photojournalism, event photography etc. are used to the f/2.8 zooms and I am betting that's what they will be using also in the future. Zooms are great for covering a variety of situations and going from an overview to close-up quickly, and many photographers need that capability. They also need it indoors which means f/2.8 is it. And the f/2.8 zooms will probably be similar in size and weight compared to DSLR offerings. The superwide angle is possibly going to be a bit smaller.
In other words I don't believe photographers will give up their f/2.8 zooms. And the bodies need good ergonomics for handling these lenses (and larger ones on the long lens side, i.e. 300/2.8 ).
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true. as what the speaker said, they were primarily not aiming for size and weight but for image quality :o :o :o
oh, i wish i can afford a cheap Nikkor-N 5cm f/1.1 ::)
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In one of the interviews linked to this thread the Nikon ambassadors said they got 1770 shots per battery and that video battery performance was similar to D850. Based on those numbers I think that a battery grip is not essential, but could be a nice to have.
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In one of the interviews linked to this thread the Nikon ambassadors said they got 1770 shots per battery and that video battery performance was similar to D850. Based on those numbers I think that a battery grip is not essential, but could be a nice to have.
Yes, I saw that and it looks like good news for most of us... ;)
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Obviously I check that I have the image on the one camera I'm using all the time when it's important shootings! I'm not tandem shooting :o
What do you do if the lens fails, the battery, the aperture follower etc. - There are so many things that can go wrong besides the cards,,, then your in trouble if your backup is two cards in one non functioning camera!
I don't know that having a backup for equipment is equal in comparison to having your work backed up. Mechanical failure is why you have back up cameras and equipment, if something fails you grab the other gear and keep shooting. But when/if a card fails and you loose your work of a scene that already took place and can not be recreated. For most people I suspect this isn't much of a concern but for some lines of work it seems clear how this is something to consider, no?
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Rumours whisper the new Noct will be in the 6K range, don't think a lot of us will have the pleasure of owning one :(
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In one of the interviews linked to this thread the Nikon ambassadors said they got 1770 shots per battery and that video battery performance was similar to D850. Based on those numbers I think that a battery grip is not essential, but could be a nice to have.
But it's not clear in what kind of usage this was, for example, if the photographer is shooting frames in quick succession, then more images can be taken than if there is a lot of viewfinder and autofocus use and then only occasional images taken; the number of shots will be smaller in the latter case.
It would be good to know how long the camera can show the EVF image and continuously focus on one battery.
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I don't know that having a backup for equipment is equal in comparison to having your work backed up. Mechanical failure is why you have back up cameras and equipment, if something fails you grab the other gear and keep shooting. But when/if a card fails and you loose your work of a scene that already took place and can not be recreated. For most people I suspect this isn't much of a concern but for some lines of work it seems clear how this is something to consider, no?
It is a concern for some people obviously, and I do use dual card writing if I shoot an event for a customer or someone other than myself. But when I didn't have two such cameras I wrote on one card and it was not an issue. I didn't stress about it.
But one should also assess other risks and what is the likelihood of a non-recoverable loss of images due to card failure vs. other causes that may lead to the customer not getting the images they need.
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Rumours whisper the new Noct will be in the 6K range, don't think a lot of us will have the pleasure of owning one :(
Well, a 50/1.2 is planned... for 2020 or so...
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Well, a 50/1.2 is planned... for 2020 or so...
Saw it on the roadmap indeed and hope it will be the first of many f/1.2 lenses as they should offer the best balance between speed, usability and price.
Especially eager to see a 35/1.2 with AF, would be a nice go to lens for me to compliment the 50/1.2 Ai-S and 85/1.2 FD for a nice mix between modern and classic rendering at f/1.2. The Z35/1.8 looks very appealing but somehow a 35mm slower than f/1.4 was never able please the fast lens addict in me.
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Rumours whisper the new Noct will be in the 6K range, don't think a lot of us will have the pleasure of owning one :(
You do know a person who will get it ... In fact, already ordered. Some times one simply has to act by instinct and intuition.
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Rumours whisper the new Noct will be in the 6K range, don't think a lot of us will have the pleasure of owning one :(
Perhaps that price rumour is in NOK currency 😛
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But it's not clear in what kind of usage this was, for example, if the photographer is shooting frames in quick succession, then more images can be taken than if there is a lot of viewfinder and autofocus use and then only occasional images taken; the number of shots will be smaller in the latter case.
It would be good to know how long the camera can show the EVF image and continuously focus on one battery.
Yes, battery life will be very dependent on how you use the camera. One observation is that with the EVF you don’t need to look at the rear display so there will be some energy savings there if you are a heavy chimper. But for those who sit and wait with eye to the EVF, the battery may get depleted faster than those who only activate it when they bring it up to their eye.
I think we just need to wait and see, but considering how I usually shoot, I think it will be acceptable. Your requirements are likely to be very different.
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Adding my few cents to the card and battery discussion.
The Nikon Df has significant space restrictions, which lead to the fact that it only had one card slot (and that was SD not the relatively XQD). It was not even possible to use an EN-EL15 form factor for the battery but rather had to rely on an advanced EN-EL14 design. This did not lead to overall rejection of the camera, the Df proved to be more than worthy despite this limited features. Luckily the Z-Series is using an EN-EL15 (like it was the advantage of V1 as the only member of the Nikon1 line). So i see no issue against buying and using a Z so far. Of course the Df is less energy consuming, currently it is not clear how many shots the Z series can do given the contradictional statements existing.
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Adding my few cents to the card and battery discussion.
The Nikon Df has significant space restrictions, which lead to the fact that it only had one card slot (and that was SD not the relatively XQD). It was not even possible to use an EN-EL15 form factor for the battery but rather had to rely on an advanced EN-EL14 design. This did not lead to overall rejection of the camera, the Df proved to be more than worthy despite this limited features. Luckily the Z-Series is using an EN-EL15 (like it was the advantage of V1 as the only member of the Nikon1 line). So i see no issue against buying and using a Z so far. Of course the Df is less energy consuming, currently it is not clear how many shots the Z series can do given the contradictional statements existing.
I'll also add to this from my experience with mirrorless cameras.
Coming from Fuji and Olympus as a background, just to level set.
Specifically talking about the Olympus OMD Em1 Mark II here. The dynamic for the cameras in mirrorless may very well need to be changed from shots per battery to shots and power on time per battery.
What I noticed with battery power is much more about how long the camera is on versus how many shots it takes. The EM1.2 could get pretty close to 1000 shots per charge, if I was continuously shooting with it.
In a blog post I did, I put the Nikon D500 against the EM1.2 at a hockey match. The Nikon did about 10-15% better on battery than the Olympus, given comparable shooting conditions.
Now, if I took a few shots, left the Olympus on and went about my business, came back and took a few more shots and did that...then I would be getting about 200-300 shots per battery.
However, I could get double that or more if I took a few shots, turned the camera off, went about my business, then turned it back on to grab the next series of shots. That is one thing that the DSLR is still very much king on. You can turn it on and leave it on and it used very little battery in that state. Only when you review images or activate the exposure metering or VR does it start to really consume energy.
So, at the end of the day, if switching to a mirrorless camera, shooting discipline changes should most certainly be a consideration to maximize battery life.
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Yes, battery life will be very dependent on how you use the camera. One observation is that with the EVF you don’t need to look at the rear display so there will be some energy savings there if you are a heavy chimper. But for those who sit and wait with eye to the EVF, the battery may get depleted faster than those who only activate it when they bring it up to their eye.
I think we just need to wait and see, but considering how I usually shoot, I think it will be acceptable. Your requirements are likely to be very different.
Twinned Questions in ignorance. Based on experience with the D850 Lv, I assume it is high reliance on the LCD that consumes much more power? As in using LV for long periods on a DSLR? I foresee chimping with one's eye to the EVF will require adapting to a distinct change of tactics using a MILC
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Adding my few cents to the card and battery discussion.
The Nikon Df has significant space restrictions, which lead to the fact that it only had one card slot (and that was SD not the relatively XQD). It was not even possible to use an EN-EL15 form factor for the battery but rather had to rely on an advanced EN-EL14 design. This did not lead to overall rejection of the camera, the Df proved to be more than worthy despite this limited features. Luckily the Z-Series is using an EN-EL15 (like it was the advantage of V1 as the only member of the Nikon1 line). So i see no issue against buying and using a Z so far. Of course the Df is less energy consuming, currently it is not clear how many shots the Z series can do given the contradictional statements existing.
VG points on these lessons of the Df release, with opinions divided. Prominent "reviews" , the trollosphere especially, flamed the camera. In crass ignorance IME. Although I have come to prefer XQD, the single SD is no hassle. Yet the Nikon Df has its own unique niche as a treasured gem
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A very subjective statement:
my best camera ever : Df
my second best : OM-D E-M1
Maybe the Z6 will give me the best of both worlds. Anyway I feel totally relaxed and delighted about the news, no matter the yes-buts.
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I think Ilkka nailed it in post 273. It is possible that Nikon will add a non S-line, maybe a C-Line for compact lenses in the future, we shall see.
There is Z talk in underwater photography as well. Nikon's fame in this area was their water contact lenses. All Nikonos lenses other than the 35 and 80mm for the original mount Nikonos (Calypso to Nikonos V) are water contact lenses. That means the lenses were optically designed to work under water and do not work well or at all in air. The RS lenses although old will outperform all topside lenses placed behind single piece (of glass either flat or dome) lens ports typically used for underwater housings. For example, I am presently using an RS 20-35mm lens that was modified by Seacam with my D3X. However, it does not look like the FTZ will allow me to use this lens with a housed Z body. But there may be a solution, which I posted on Wetpixel. I am re-posting it here as I do not recall seeing many NG folks over there. At least paragraph 1 will be of interest here.:
The FTZ does NOT support screw-drive type AF. It might be possible for someone to develop one that does, either Nikon or a 3rd party. However, it might turn out that the communications protocols in the new Z cameras will not allow this, e.g., adapted lens AF is too slow (such as changing focusing direction).
But..... there is another alternative that seems more interesting to me. That would be to develop an RSTZ adapter for manual-focusing-only with Nikonos RS lenses like done on the RS camera bodies. This would require an adapter with a the screw drive in it but instead of communicating with the Z camera body, it would communicate with an RS analog control switch on the housing (e.g., with a cable)!!! If I recall correctly the RS manual focusing switch controlled focusing speed as well as direction. Therefore a functional analog (to the RS) would be preferred. This hypothetical RSTZ adapter would obviously have to be paired with a housing that came with this switch.
Tom - originally here- http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62720
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My guess is that in some years we will see a Z-Nikonos as Nikon seems to have used the brand name in it's recent videos. Or a new Nikonos series based on the Zx technology !
I had a Nikonos V, great camera for using on a motorbike (weather proof and mostly shock proof). I had a LW 28mm/2.8 surface lens Nikon style with the other W 35mm/2,5. The shutter was more silent then the Leica M (even though it was more of the FM2 type, the housing kept it very, very silent ;)). Of course you had to guess/estimate the distance :o
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My experience of mirrorless battery life is similar to that of Andrew.
With the Fuji X-T2, I get 300-400 shots in normal use. Shooting sport at 11 fps, even with a lot of image review, I get around 1,000 shots per battery. In practice, I have never failed to get a shot because of lack of battery power. It is really not a big deal.
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A Dutch review mentions a couple of things:
- 750+ shots per battery in a very warm Tokio
- Shutter quieter and AF faster then A7RII (which is not last gen)
- AF not as reliable as with a DSLR under challenging light conditions (which is no surprise)
The review (rather boring for the rest):
https://tweakers.net/reviews/6495/de-nikon-z7-in-de-praktijk.html
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That QR plate you posted JA gives me hope that A Aed camera may be in my immediate future.
Looking at the grip as it is, I can't see that I'll warm to it. It gives nowhere for my small finger to rest, or if it does, it'll be cramped up.
Just a few more mm of grip height is all that I think I need.
So, dependent on the EVF quality, I think I may warm to a Z .. just waiting for stock now.
Oh! And the comment from the Nikon manager that Nikon fully intend to continue DSLR progression into the future is humorous(considering their recent history).
While they may intend to continue DSLR support, doesn't mean that it won't cease.
I'm fairly sure the market will dictate if the F mount has a future now.
ie. if the Z mount cameras are as good/better/cheaper .. then the most likely future for the F mount is that development will eventually cease. Of course in what time frame, is the great unknown.
Price wise, I think Canon and Sony will be the deciding factor as to where Nikon's pricing goes. Main reason Canon has always had the lead in DSLR/SLR terms, is that their pricing is more attractive to the general consumer.
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A Dutch review mentions a couple of things:
- 750+ shots per battery in a very warm Tokio
- Shutter quieter and AF faster then A7RII (which is not last gen)
- AF not as reliable as with a DSLR under challenging light conditions (which is no surprise)
The review (rather boring for the rest):
https://tweakers.net/reviews/6495/de-nikon-z7-in-de-praktijk.html
One correction:
False: very warm Tokio
True: insanely hot and humid Tokio
:o :o :o
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A very subjetive statement:
my best camera ever : Df
my second best : OM-D E-M1
Maybe the Z6 will give me the best of both worlds. Anyway I feel totally relaxed and delighted about the news, no matter the yes-buts.
Airy, interesting
I cannot say exactly the same but pretty close. I think my D3S and D750 are in the mx and I have more fun with the Pen F than the EM-1 but not now, Monsoon ;) . My Sony bodies are way down the list . UI >:(
To afford a Z6, the Df and one EM1 would have to go but no need for a quick decision. I will watch for reports on 50 f1.4G on an Z6/adapter.
Watching and waiting :)
Tom
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When Nikon launched the Nikon F in 1959 it was probably intended to be produced in parallel with the well established rangefinder system. The accepted wisdom at the time was that rangefinders were superior for wide to standard lenses, and good for short telephoto, which covers the majority of photographic situations. The the SLR was viewed as a specialised tool for longer telephotos and macro. Nikon did make lenses such as the mirror-up 2.1cm to provide a super-wide lens for the F system, but these are a compromise, in the same way the reflex housing for long telephotos was a compromise for rangefinder cameras.
However, beginning with the Nikkor-H 28/3.5, Nikon showed that practical, high quality wide-angle lenses were possible for SLR cameras. Combined with TTL viewing which allows more accurate framing and DOF preview, the Nikon F soon showed it was a superior system. Sales increased rapidly and the rangefinder system was soon left behind and discontinued.
Will the mirrorless system replace the SLR system in the same way? I don't think the SLR system will be superseded so quickly. The user base is much bigger than the old Nikon rangefinder system was. There are still advantages to the SLR system, such as lower power consumption, and many prefer the optical viewfinders. However, if/when Nikon introduces a more budget-friendly "DX" Z camera, I think we will see resources and sales move quickly away from SLRs to the new system.
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Roland, I think you are correct. I recall the old Usenet days when digital was in its infancy. So many people argued so fiercely that film would reign supreme due to its “infinite” resolution. So many petty arguments about how digital was not archival like film. Arguments about how digital chewed through batteries and of course those saying that cameras should have AA batteries in the event your batteries died and you had to go to a store to buy new ones.
The one slot/two slot thing reminds me of that time.
Main point is that the path of technology will eventually erode those obstacles. The mirror is an obstacle right now. It forces a certain flange depth sure, but more importantly there are so many things you can do computationally when it is gone. Reading directly from the sensor has many advantages and eliminates the problems of a moving mirror (mirror slap, oil spots, misaligned focus, blackout, weight, timing limitations and potentially cost). But erosion is a slow process. Transition from sheet film to roll film, TLR to SLR, rangefinder to SLR, Film to Digital, All took time and co-existed. The DSLR is close to its peak as a technology so it is hard to beat, but I’m confident it will get beaten. Not this year, but soon enough. You can tell it is happening ecause the arguments are so fierce. Change is hard.
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One correction:
False: very warm Tokio
True: insanely hot and humid Tokio
:o :o :o
They are talking about 44C, that is indeed insane :o :o
Hang in there amigo :)
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The facts of the battery usage will be revealed as soon as the cameras ship to real users and reliable review sites. Until then, speculation.
I do believe the CIPA rating is real in the sense that as the same testing method is used with different cameras, the numbers are comparable. Whether the CIPA test scheme corresponds to real users' shooting pattern is a different issue altogether. I do believe that it is a reliable baseline figure though.
Sony A7R III battery delivers 650 shots per charge according to CIPA. The Nikon Z delivers 330. I'd guess that the shooter who got 1700 shots with the Nikon would have got 3400 with the Sony, provided he used the cameras in a same way.
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They are talking about 44C, that is indeed insane :o :o
Hang in there amigo :)
Muchas gracias. :o :o
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It may be that the test was done prematurely with firmware that was not ready. Let's see, maybe the CIPA rating changes with the final release.
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The mirror is an obstacle right now.
For some applications, yes, such as video, or high frame rate stills photography.
It forces a certain flange depth sure,
Personally I'm in favour of mirrorless when it concerns opening up the mount, as I like large aperture lenses and also tilt/shift lenses, and eventually those would be advantaged by the new mount.
But for my people photography, all the EVFs I've tried have been non-starters. I hope there will be improvement but given the reported approximately 1/15s read time for the sensor it doesn't sound like it will be in this generation. A faster read sensor means shorter EVF lag but then there is a dynamic range loss at base ISO, so it is looking like most EVFs continue to be slightly laggy. This may not be an issue for everyone but it is an issue for some.
Reading directly from the sensor has many advantages and eliminates the problems of a moving mirror (mirror slap, oil spots, misaligned focus, blackout, weight, timing limitations and potentially cost).
I suspect the cost of the development of the technology that supplants it may well exceed the cost of the mirror and its associated mechanisms. Integrated circuits are cheap only when there are enormous volumes (e.g. 100 million copies, not 100 thousand like is typical in ILC cameras) involved and even then they are a real cost that is transmitted to the consumer.
The cost might not even be paid with a single camera but the expectation seems to be that users need to go through a series of progressively more mature generations to get finally what they want, but each time thousands of dollars exchange hands. That's the cost of mirrorless. In addition there is the cost of new autofocus lenses with new types of motors which make mirrorless AF possible. With DSLRs, requirements for AF motors are a bit different and most existing lenses were built for those requirements.
Mirror slap creates some sound and vibration, the vibration is mainly a factor when working at slow-ish shutter speeds. Here's my thinking: at fast speeds I am getting very sharp results even with mirror in normal mode and mechanical shutter in use. Moving subjects are frozen in time. If I need to shoot at a slower speed, and if I'm using a lightweight telephoto such as the 300 PF, I switch the D850 to Qc mode which slows down the mirror and opens the shutter early to let the vibrations die and with electronic first curtain I can get a sharper image in those circumstances. But for true sharpness and liberty from any vibration, I prefer a tripod as along with it comes not only freedom from vibration, also more precise compositional control and the photographs that result tend to be with much higher keeper rate and also more carefully considered. Especially with longer telephoto lenses I find that it's difficult to hand hold and obtain precise compositions. If I'm using a tripod I have a bag tricks (EFCS, silent shutter, mirror lockup, back LCD etc.) to avoid shake. I typically shoot my static subjects on tripod and moving subjects hand held.
For silent photography I am interested in a mirrorless camera, but I would prefer a model with an optical viewfinder, even if it means it is limited to a couple of focal lengths. However, I'm not very happy with the present implementation of silent shutter as it can distort moving subjects and also there is possibility of interference with the frequency of flickering lights. Thus there is limited gains in this area unless going to something like the A9, in which case silent shutter can be used fairly liberally but the same camera isn't ideal for other applications such as landscape. If Nikon can make this kind of a camera, it is of interest to me for situations where silence is a significant benefit. At the same time my belief is that the photographer's presence and actions cause at least as much disturbance than clicking a few shots on Qc mode on a DSLR. And flickering lights are very common; to me it is a delight that now DSLRs are able to time exposures to the peak of the flickering light cycle, which leads to more consistent results in such conditions (which are unfortunately very common). I would not want to go into a situation where I have more problems with these lights, banding etc. So I remain uncertain about the topic of the silent shutter. I don't normally shoot high fps, except for some subjects such as samba, and prefer my own timing based on the evolution of the subject in the viewfinder. I agree that some moments are easier to catch with high fps but I intensely dislike the resulting large quantities of data and the difficult and time-consuming process of choosing the best frame of many. I get much more satisfaction from shooting mostly in single shots and find the keeper rate is much higher that way as well. But that means the viewfinder experience has to be pleasing and with as little disturbance as possible. I look forward to testing Nikon's Z viewfinder to see where we are at the moment. In the A9 viewfinder I didn't like how it responds to flickering lights and would not be interested in paying money for that.
The DSLR is close to its peak as a technology so it is hard to beat, but I’m confident it will get beaten. Not this year, but soon enough. You can tell it is happening ecause the arguments are so fierce. Change is hard.
I think the fierce arguments are mostly a sign of the times (in society, humanity etc.) a result of liberating communication via the internet and positioning unverified hearsay at the same level as verified fact. Because people play it like it was a game, and strongly opinionated statements are prized with "likes", the discussion becomes polarized and heated. I do not believe this has anything to do with mirrorless or DSLRs per se. Also the Df generated a lot of heated arguments and it was just about how camera controls are organized basically, some people love the Df controls and others present heated arguments against them. Few people participating in the discussions seem to accept that it is subjective and everyone should have the right to choose for themselves. In the mirrorless vs. DSLR debate also people should accept that the answer is not the same for everyone, and diversity is a good thing, and benefits creativity. It's not a game with winners and losers. If diversity is lost then photography has become less rich.
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I think the fierce arguments are mostly a sign of the times (in society, humanity etc.) a result of liberating communication via the internet and positioning unverified hearsay at the same level as verified fact.
Right, but there may be another sociologic trend that contributes to it: consultants have pulled engineers away from the limelight. A bit like critics (in arts) would place themselves over and above the artists they criticize, long ago already. Having opinions being ranked higher than being able to do (or use). With internet as a resonator, no wonder that guys with opinions may want to become opinion-leaders, as you describe. It is a game with low rewards but even lower costs.
This is not to make a general judgment about consultancy (I've been in that business too, by the way), since there is anyway no clear separation between consultancy and engineering.
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One are I have not seen any comments is about controlling the camera via Bluetooth or WiFi
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Now that you mention it - I can do that with the OM-D, remote control and viewfinder display on my smartphone. Cool. Can be very useful, but not for me most of the time, so I did not check the Z case...
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One are I have not seen any comments is about controlling the camera via Bluetooth or WiFi
I believe Nikon is relying on the Snapbridge App for that functionality.
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There are a multitude of (remote) controlling options available for these cameras.
An aspect to be checked when the review camera(s) arrive.
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That QR plate you posted JA gives me hope that A Aed camera may be in my immediate future.
Looking at the grip as it is, I can't see that I'll warm to it. It gives nowhere for my small finger to rest, or if it does, it'll be cramped up.
Just a few more mm of grip height is all that I think I need.
If its just a grip extension your after there are more options out there, including wood :o :o
http://www.jbcameradesigns.com/shop/
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true success or marketing:
https://petapixel.com/2018/08/28/nikon-is-sorry-that-the-z7-is-selling-so-quickly/
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Familiar site here?
http://www.nikoneye.com (http://www.nikoneye.com)
More Z elaborations
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Latest on the Nikon Z7
Nikon Z7 first impressions - https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/03/nikon-z7-first-impressions.aspx/#more-126548 (https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/03/nikon-z7-first-impressions.aspx/#more-126548)
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For some applications, yes, such as video, or high frame rate stills photography.
Personally I'm in favour of mirrorless when it concerns opening up the mount, as I like large aperture lenses and also tilt/shift lenses, and eventually those would be advantaged by the new mount.
[...]
I think the fierce arguments are mostly a sign of the times (in society, humanity etc.) a result of liberating communication via the internet and positioning unverified hearsay at the same level as verified fact. Because people play it like it was a game, and strongly opinionated statements are prized with "likes", the discussion becomes polarized and heated. I do not believe this has anything to do with mirrorless or DSLRs per se. Also the Df generated a lot of heated arguments and it was just about how camera controls are organized basically, some people love the Df controls and others present heated arguments against them. Few people participating in the discussions seem to accept that it is subjective and everyone should have the right to choose for themselves. In the mirrorless vs. DSLR debate also people should accept that the answer is not the same for everyone, and diversity is a good thing, and benefits creativity. It's not a game with winners and losers. If diversity is lost then photography has become less rich.
I think the widespread assumption that mirrorless has obsoleted optical viewfinders is largely a matter of psychological perception - which more often than not serves to obscure reality. In my opinion and my judgment, it is more than likely that it is precisely what we are witnessing when we hear statements like "mirrorless is the future" - and that by implication optical viewfinder systems are obsolete and doomed to die. There are some advantages to mirrorless, but it is not at all clear that those outweigh the advantages that go with an optical viewfinder. On the contrary, one might say that the optical viewfinder - and the present-day (D)SLR and rangefinder systems that build on optics - are very advanced and will give the most natural view also in the future.
The forces behind the illusion that the OVF is a "dinosaur" on its deathbed are market forces who of course exert a powerful psychological influence on people who influence the opinion of others - this is done deliberately when the manufacturers present their products as innovative and revolutionary and even indispensable to those who want to be at the glorious technological forefront. The psychological perception of progress, modernity and superiority is then spread to the public and takes root.
However, the real and factual technical merits of the systems are rarely analyzed with a cool mind. But precisely that is what we ought to change.
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The rangefinder cameras like Leica M actually has a quite a feature in that with most lenses you have a completely clear view directly of the whole scene and at the same time you can actually through the viewfinder see what is going on outside the image frame, this can be an extremely nice advantage for reportage and PJ style shooting. same as shooting a DX lens on a FX camera with the masking off, takes some getting used to but works,,, Just a heads up from the Leica M camp ;)
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The rangefinder cameras like Leica M actually has a quite a feature in that with most lenses you have a completely clear view directly of the whole scene and at the same time you can actually through the viewfinder see what is going on outside the image frame, this can be an extremely nice advantage for reportage and PJ style shooting. same as shooting a DX lens on a FX camera with the masking off, takes some getting used to but works,,, Just a heads up from the Leica M camp ;)
Which only serves to emphasize that fact that optical viewfinders - in rangefinder cameras as well as DSLR systems - are permanently viable.
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. same as shooting a DX lens on a FX camera with the masking off, takes some getting used to but works,,
Enjoyed that feature with D8xx series cameras, especially with cropped FX tele lenses.
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Mirrorless appeals to the manufacturers because it's substantially cheaper to manufacture. Nikon will make a handsome profit per unit on the Z7 particularly.
After an hour spent operating a EVF-equipped camera in bright sunlight will make one grateful for returning to the OVF SLR.
A few minutes of trying to focus an OVF SLR camera in near-darkness will make the EVF seem a marvelous miracle.
I hope that both will be available well into the future.
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It would be good to have the best of both worlds in a sustainable way
with the F and Z system as the best (but not optimal) crossover compatibility available. Thats great.
The example of D2X and F6 shows that sometimes parallel worlds are waning faster than expected, so I am feeling ambigous.
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It would be good to have the best of both worlds in a sustainable way
with the F and Z system as the best (but not optimal) crossover compatibility available. Thats great.
The example of D2X and F6 shows that sometimes parallel worlds are waning faster than expected, so I am feeling ambigous.
Yes...it's purely a business decision and it could go faster than we'd like. There may be only top of the line (D5/D850) choices for DSLR at some point.
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Mirrorless appeals to the manufacturers because it's substantially cheaper to manufacture.
Is that really the case? Mirrorless requires greater processing power and faster read times from sensors (to make possible a near real time EVF and silent shooting, and because more data is to be processed for autofocus) and these chips cost a lot of money to develop, and the equipment to manufacture them is very expensive. Assembling DSLRs seems to be really cheap, judging from the prices at which they can be put out on the market.
Mirrorless appeals to companies like Sony, Panasonic etc. because they have a strong video background and they want to push the market towards convergence of still and video cameras because it is their area of strength. Mirrorless is kind of a video camera, just a bit slower frame rate but higher resolution.
Integrated circuit manufacture can be really expensive and it only becomes inexpensive per unit when the volumes are approaching billions such as in cell phones. Cameras are orders of magnitude smaller volume business and thus the cost of development of the ICs per unit can be high.
I would be happy to be proven wrong by data on the actual costs if anyone can present them. Please don't use something manufactured in a hundred million copies as evidence of the alleged inexpensiveness of something that is only manufactured in a hundred thousand copies.
In my opinion the optical viewfinder is a preferred solution to stills photography especially of moving subjects as long as the idea is to make individual frames instead of essentially a video feed. I sincerely do not believe that the prism and some motors etc. are more expensive to make than those stacked sensors and EVFs.
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I would agree with Ilkka :)
Many photographer today "have" to deal with video (though it's a completely different media), for corporate or marriage and maybe even travel or events, mostly because of web access and presence for corporations' sites or blogs.
Others can still operate with still photography as "Art", wildlife, macro, fashion, even reportage, etc. because it's either printed in magazines or in photo books or again in galleries.
Mirrorless is an easy access to video (Z6) with the capacity of having great stills (Z7, Z6), for marriages and corporate, it's a light weight, multi purpose tool (even with the needed additions), but for wildlife, portraits, landscape and even street, the OVF is still for many an asset.
I don't think the SLR are dead or dying, as we do see the resurgence of film when many said it was dead and buried. Even youngsters who are already quite good with an iPhone try to learn film processing and buy (cheap) film cameras, not all of those jump to mirrorless and video !
The good news is that now we can have several tools and can choose the one we need (or can afford) ;)
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Joe McNally has done an interesting shoot with the Z7 - some great photos, and BTS photos and video.
https://blog.joemcnally.com/2018/09/04/shooting-aliens-with-the-nikon-z-7/
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In my opinion the optical viewfinder is a preferred solution to stills photography especially of moving subjects as long as the idea is to make individual frames instead of essentially a video feed. I sincerely do not believe that the prism and some motors etc. are more expensive to make than those stacked sensors and EVFs.
I prefer [good] optical finders also, and I don't have a cost breakdown on the design/construction of, say, a D750 vs. a Z6. But, the elimination of human employees almost always saves money., doesn't it?
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But, the elimination of human employees almost always saves money., doesn't it?
I don't believe that.
I read that Mercedes moved from robot building of cards to largely human assembly (robots help with specific tasks such as welding) because it was easier to get humans to work around the many configuration options available in their cars than program the robots to deal with it.
Building things with machines may work well for large series, but if you have a rich variety of products then humans may be a good option.
Making ICs can take weeks or months with the many steps needed. Expensive machinery taking weeks or months to make components leads to real costs that have to be passed onto the consumer.
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Joe McNally has done an interesting shoot with the Z7 - some great photos, and BTS photos and video.
https://blog.joemcnally.com/2018/09/04/shooting-aliens-with-the-nikon-z-7/
Good catch, Tim!
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Summary in DCW - N-Photo magazine
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/features/99-things-you-need-to-know-about-nikons-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-system?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=25566&utm_term=12242905&utm_content=423818 (https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/features/99-things-you-need-to-know-about-nikons-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-system?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=25566&utm_term=12242905&utm_content=423818)
Also see this synopsis of 4 video reviews (in German) by Swiss photographer Stephan Wiesner. Honest in his disclaimers etc
http://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2018/09/excellent-nikon-z7-reviews-by-stephan-wiesner-in-german.html (http://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2018/09/excellent-nikon-z7-reviews-by-stephan-wiesner-in-german.html)
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Just been to a one on one hands on review
Nikon Rep said 20,000 had been sold and that the stock was not yet packed having firmware updates before shipping ..??
The Good.
The black out is minimal in fact confirms in silent that you took a picture
The mechanical shutter is almost silent ..nothing to worry about more like a leaf shutter .
The viewfinder is good and bright ..excellent
General handling was great .
Battery life 1000+ on stills 4 hrs on video 4k
Grip was excellent and the function buttons came easy to the finger tips.
On off switch for the LCD was good
The Bad.
It £4000 so for me and the wife one each too expensive.
One card slot ..no good for weddings.
rubber covers over the connectors horrible...one piece
WOULD NOT WORK WITH TAMRON 150-400 (OR ANY G2)
WOULD NOT WORK WITH THE SAMYANG 14MM MANUAL FOCUS
Did not like rear thumbwheel..too difficult to tape up.
A little slow to come on when switched on.
So better than expected.
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Thanks for the links
Summary in DCW - N-Photo magazine
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/features/99-things-you-need-to-know-about-nikons-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-system?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=25566&utm_term=12242905&utm_content=423818 (https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/features/99-things-you-need-to-know-about-nikons-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-system?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=25566&utm_term=12242905&utm_content=423818)
Interesting and surprising for me was Nikons statements that the Z-mount offers advantages in Super-tele design. I am wondering what that might be. Z lenses roadmap is not reflecting tele sector at all, and the F line is filled with superb Supertele optics of all kind with some more to come.
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Just been to a one on one hands on review...
...WOULD NOT WORK WITH THE SAMYANG 14MM MANUAL FOCUS...
...So better than expected.
Thanks for your impressions. In what sense does it not work with a fully manual focus, AiS-equivalent(?) lens?
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With the 14mm Samyang and the Tamron 100-400 it just flashes error, The Tamron works perfect with the other D7200/800/810 as does the Samyang.
By better than expected I mean better than the u tubers are saying
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Is it possible that there is a menu option in camera that needs to be set for full manual lenses? I know on the Df, you need to setup the manual focus lenses as either AI or non-CPU for it to meter correctly.
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Is it possible that there is a menu option in camera that needs to be set for full manual lenses? I know on the Df, you need to setup the manual focus lenses as either AI or non-CPU for it to meter correctly.
I expect the ZX to have a menu for (still just 9) setups saving focal length and speed of a non CPU lens. A separation between AI/Non AI does make sense for the Df as it has an AI-aperture coupling lever that can be switched away allowing Non CPU lenses to be used. The FTZ can take both (as the low level Nikon D bodies). As the AI coupling is missing distinguishing between AI and Non AI lenses (without CPU) does not make sense as they have to be treated the same.
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With the 14mm Samyang and the Tamron 100-400 it just flashes error, The Tamron works perfect with the other D7200/800/810 as does the Samyang.
One needs to lock the lens to the minimum aperture otherwise the FEE occurs. I tried a number of lenses on the Z6/7 via the FTZ adapter and all cases of flashing errors were solved simply by setting the lens correctly.
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As expected the foolography Unleashed GPS Bluetooth dongle does work with the Z7. Also in combination with the Unleashed my Bad Elf GPS logger can be used as Bluetooth remote control. (AF +trigger)
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One needs to lock the lens to the minimum aperture otherwise the FEE occurs. I tried a number of lenses on the Z6/7 via the FTZ adapter and all cases of flashing errors were solved simply by setting the lens correctly.
Just to clarify my understanding, is this with chipped lenses that this needs to be at smallest aperture or unchipped?
With the dumb adapter and my Olympus PEN-F, the camera uses the available light coming through the iris of the lens and adjusts the shutter and ISO accordingly. The EXIF always reports the widest aperture, so a my Nikon 105mm f/2.5 always shows the aperture as f/2.5...and I'm Ok with that because the lens is usable and the camera can figure out the exposure. I'm hoping the Z6/Z7 can do something similar.
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We are seeing the first results using the Nikon Z7 in the field >>
This detailed feedback by Marcus van Oosten, who tested 2 prototypes of the Nikon Z7 in Madagascar. Some will remember his Hercules Rising promotion last year for the D850
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/07/nikon-z7-field-report-by-marsel-van-oosten.aspx/#ixzz5QUV8Phug
(https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/07/nikon-z7-field-report-by-marsel-van-oosten.aspx/#ixzz5QUV8Phug)
This guy works for Nikon UK but I like his style and honesty https://youtu.be/Ex5vVy6KBac (https://youtu.be/Ex5vVy6KBac)
and here are the earlier reports by Ricci Chera:
https://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2018/09/excellent-nikon-z7-reviews-by-ricci-chera.html (https://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2018/09/excellent-nikon-z7-reviews-by-ricci-chera.html)
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Just to clarify my understanding, is this with chipped lenses that this needs to be at smallest aperture or unchipped?
I used chipped lenses and their behaviour needs to be "G" look-alike. Meaning the aperture on the lens must be set to its minimum. For a native "G" lens (and native AFS* too) the aperture is always controlled by the camera thus they function without further effects from the user's side. For AI/AiS lenses which are CPU-enabled, the aperture must be set to the minimum on the lens otherwise the FEE error occurs. I was a bit puzzled about this and will investigate in depth as soon as my review cameras arrive, of course.
With the dumb adapter and my Olympus PEN-F, the camera uses the available light coming through the iris of the lens and adjusts the shutter and ISO accordingly. The EXIF always reports the widest aperture, so a my Nikon 105mm f/2.5 always shows the aperture as f/2.5...and I'm Ok with that because the lens is usable and the camera can figure out the exposure. I'm hoping the Z6/Z7 can do something similar.
That remains to be seen -- an important aspect of forthcoming system testing as far as I'm concerned.
* The earliest AFS generation with aperture ring, such as the 17-35/2.8 or 28-70/2.8, would likely need to have the aperture ring locked to the minimum to avoid the FEE error. These lenses do allow aperture control on the lens if the DSLR camera is set up accordingly, but probably not on the Z bodies
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This detailed feedback by Marcus van Oosten, who tested 2 prototypes of the Nikon Z7 in Madagascar. Some will remember his Hercules Rising promotion last year for the D850
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/07/nikon-z7-field-report-by-marsel-van-oosten.aspx/#ixzz5QUV8Phug
(https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/07/nikon-z7-field-report-by-marsel-van-oosten.aspx/#ixzz5QUV8Phug)
This guy works for Nikon UK but I like his style and honesty https://youtu.be/Ex5vVy6KBac (https://youtu.be/Ex5vVy6KBac)
I used to chat a bit with Marsel in another life and on another forum (we were moderators). He's as honest as anyone can be, and when something bugs him, he can be vocal about it. He lives for his work (and I hope it makes him live), and happen to use Nikon gear since the beginning as his tools of trade, but he's no "fanboy". He use what it gets to have his pictures done.
I believe him as I would some others here ;)
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"And flickering lights are very common; to me it is a delight that now DSLRs are able to time exposures to the peak of the flickering light cycle, which leads to more consistent results in such conditions (which are unfortunately very common). I would not want to go into a situation where I have more problems with these lights, banding etc. So I remain uncertain about the topic of the silent shutter."
One of the hands on reviewers mentioned that you can see the banding through the EVF, which makes it easy to adjust the shutter speed and eliminate it. He indicated as a practical matter, banding is an education issue rather than a technical issue.
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One of the hands on reviewers mentioned that you can see the banding through the EVF, which makes it easy to adjust the shutter speed and eliminate it. He indicated as a practical matter, banding is an education issue rather than a technical issue.
But can you eliminate the effect and keep a fast shutter speed to freeze subject movement?
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But can you eliminate the effect and keep a fast shutter speed to freeze subject movement?
You can run shutter speed fast enough to stop action, they just need to be a multiple of the frequency of the lights that cause the banding.
60hz, 1/60 will stop the banding. So will 1/120, 1/180, etc
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There is banding with mechanical shutter at any speed or only with the silent electronic?
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There is banding with mechanical shutter at any speed or only with the silent electronic?
Banding can occur on both.
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I'm still very undecided on the new Z,,, Several points seems to pop up when I read about the new Mirror less Z marvels
Some of it seems like jumping over the bridge to get water or the Emporer has no cloths on,,,
Anyway that is what I hear,,,,
In no particular order;
Oh you have many F-mount lenses- we made an adapter that almost works with all of them,,, almost,,,
Yes, no old school mirror, there is an adapter you can use,,,
No mirror at all, yes, we invented a display that is almost as good,,,
Larger mount lets so much light in, no you get same aperture value,,, yes they are 35 and 50mm and f/1.8,,,
I never had issues with light fall off on the nice F-mount lenses, they are f/1.4,,,
I actually like a bit of vignetting often,,, correcting it on the new sensors is no problem,,,
The new focus by wire is almost as good,,,
Yes the camera is so slim because the flange distance is so short,,, yes the rear is really thick to make room for this and that and the finder is just sticking out so you can see the display, it has to because the mirror is removed, its mirror less you see,,, yes when you mount the adapter the lens and camera is of course much longer/thicker than a DSLR,,, but we removed the mirror, so it has to be longer,,, so the flange is closer to the sensor, so we can make amazing lenses, yes they are much longer than F-mount lenses, and larger diameter because the flange is so big,,, it leads so much more light into the sensor that the lenses can be faster,,, no they are f/1.8,,, There is also now possibility to make f/0.95 yes just like Leica M Noctilux,,, just much bigger because,,, yes Leica M is much too small mount just like F mount,,,
Noct has a display to show depth of field, that is none excistant for such a fast lens,,, it's a slice, a mirror less slice, just like sliced bred,,,
Damn I just want to buy a Z7 and take it for a spin ;D ;D 8)
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If the promised delivery of my Z7 manifests itself before I go to The Netherlands later this month, you are free to play around with it, Erik. I will be preoccupied with older lenses brought for modification any way.
There are some new 'Emperor's clothes' stories and myths starting to get a momentum with these ML cameras. For example, the myth that the larger mount allows 'more light' and therefore the lenses are 'faster' than the nominal specification. I fear we will learn of more such nonsensical and fake news in the times ahead.
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Well, it is possible there would be less vignetting at wide apertures with shortish lenses.
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That remains to be seen. The S-line 35/1.8 did exhibit excellent sharpness across the frame into the corners at f/1.8, but as I only used it with jpgs some processing wizardry might have happened in-camera. I have ordered that lens so will be able to test it with NEFs and with all picture controls switched off.
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If the promised delivery of my Z7 manifests itself before I go to The Netherlands later this month, you are free to play around with it, Erik. I will be preoccupied with older lenses brought for modification any way.
There are some new 'Emperor's clothes' stories and myths starting to get a momentum with these ML cameras. For example, the myth that the larger mount allows 'more light' and therefore the lenses are 'faster' than the nominal specification. I fear we will learn of more such nonsensical and fake news in the times ahead.
That will be much appreciated ;)
True there could be an improvement, less vignetting, but to make such a fuss about it is ridiculous IMHO. It looks like they went for a a too large diameter to me.
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Excuse my sticking my nose in here, to be frank I know sod all about lens design but I don't think the large Z mount has much to do with legacy lenses, more providing an opportunity for the future development of larger exit lens elements (pupils?) so the light rays are not as angular to the surface of the sensor. With FX and small exit pupils (?) close to the sensor the light rays must be at quite an oblique angle to the surface of the sensor. My understanding is that the light receptors see mainly forward, even at the edges and corners so it must have an adverse effect on light sensitivity, perhaps more with some colour wavelengths than others so a more perpendicular (straight) angle the better. This must be an even greater issue when the exit pupil is much closer to the sensor than has been previously possible.
Vignetting isn't only caused by restricting the lens throat, the approach angle of the light rays to the sensor is probably more crucial.
Much has been speculated about a larger or even square sensor but I don't expect that, perhaps it can't be ruled out in the future when sensor cost come down and the technology develops. No doubt Nikon are expecting, hoping the Z mount will be around for another fifty years.
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It's not just that the large Z mount allows very fast lenses with large exit pupil, it also allows for lenses with large diameter rear element to be close to the sensor if needed. This might be to correct barrel distortion, field curvature, or to make the light rays more perpendicular to the sensor, to reduce "digital" vignetting or color shifts.
For example, there are plenty of wide lenses where the front element is much larger than the entrance pupil. Now it is possible for the reverse, the rear element could be larger than the exit pupil, if the lens designer wishes, to improve lens performance.
The large Z mount also makes it possible to create tilt/shift lenses with greater range of movements than before.
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Thank you Roland, much clearer than my fumbling, poorly expressed thoughts. ::)
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I forgot who I talked to but the old 2.1cm may not work with the Z cameras :o :o :o
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I hope that small (well, at least short), high quality lenses will also be provided at some point. For the time being, still quite happy with Df and AI stuff.
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Excuse my sticking my nose in here, to be frank I know sod all about lens design but I don't think the large Z mount has much to do with legacy lenses,,,
It's not just that the large Z mount allows very fast lenses with large exit pupil, it also allows for lenses with large diameter rear element to be close to the sensor if needed. This might be to correct barrel distortion, field curvature, or to make the light rays more perpendicular to the sensor, to reduce "digital" vignetting or color shifts.
For example, there are plenty of wide lenses where the front element is much larger than the entrance pupil. Now it is possible for the reverse, the rear element could be larger than the exit pupil, if the lens designer wishes, to improve lens performance.
The large Z mount also makes it possible to create tilt/shift lenses with greater range of movements than before.
Completely correct both of you, but is it really so that this is a big problem now? Don't we already have affordable glass that deliver the amazing image quality and we can with a quick raw conversion tinker what we need in PP,,,
The situation is that we all have tons of legacy glass,,,
Other mounts have emerged and died out quite quickly,,, I fear the Z could face the same unless the lenses really are spectacular and relatively affordable.
If they are as I fear, with various defects lateral chromatic fringing as some already report and f/1.8 I'm just raising my concern for selling off my F's and replace then with inferior Z's,,,
The New Noct Z Nikkor must be spectacular but it is more expensive than a 200mm f/2, is it going to be better re.:barrel distortion, field curvature, or to make the light rays more perpendicular to the sensor, to reduce "digital" vignetting or color shifts.[/size][/i]
?
Really, do you think so, will it be better? so I go; Wow it's much better than 200mm f/2 wow :o :o :o I will be waiting 8)
The pro sport shooters, birders etc. will not like sluggish or unpredictable AF so it seems we will have a very long grace period or transition to Z, if too slow it will die out,,, Sure they keep the DSLR and F-mount - Rally vice decision as a fall back! IMHO
I'm all in for new Z and hope it works out ;D 8)
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I forgot who I talked to but the old 2.1cm may not work with the Z cameras :o :o :o
It's on the list of 'unsuitable' lenses. Together with various other lenses which require the mirror to be raised... Seems strange given the apparent freedom of the large mount adaptor?
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PS sure Tilt Shift will of course have better possibilities with a larger mount- But I fear they will be huge pieces of glass, I think my 19mm PC-E is quiet on the large side as is ;)
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I forgot who I talked to but the old 2.1cm may not work with the Z cameras :o :o :o
It was made for film, the exit rays will render useless on the sensor. Sure it will mount,,, Dremel,,, :o
That is not one of the lenses I would ever consider to use unless for artistic reasons ::)
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It's on the list of 'unsuitable' lenses. Together with various other lenses which require the mirror to be raised... Seems strange given the apparent freedom of the large mount adaptor?
For all the reasons you mentioned above it will not send the light rays straight onto the sensor so it's 'not suitable' in Nikonsk
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Akira posted a japanese link to a Nikon prototype exhibition
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,7834.msg127153/topicseen.html#msg127153
Thanks Akira
This lead me to another link which appears to be specs including a compatibility Chart for the FTZ adapter
http://www.nikon-image.com/products/accessory/body/ftz/spec.html
Given my non existent japanese skills it appears to contain also a list of incompatible Nikon F-lenses below
The 21 cm Nikkor is also listed here (update unfortunately the 10 mm OP fisheye as well)
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The large Z mount also makes it possible to create tilt/shift lenses with greater range of movements than before.
Will this be an opportunity for the Cambo Actus to capitalise on new, more suitable hardware? Will the protruding grip get in the way?
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Akira posted a japanese link to a Nikon prototype exhibition
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,7834.msg127153/topicseen.html#msg127153 (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,7834.msg127153/topicseen.html#msg127153)
Thanks Akira
This lead me to another link which appears to be specs including a compatibility Chart for the FTZ adapter
http://www.nikon-image.com/products/accessory/body/ftz/spec.html (http://www.nikon-image.com/products/accessory/body/ftz/spec.html)
Given my non existent japanese skills it appears to contain also a list of incompatible Nikon F-lenses below
The 21 cm Nikkor is also listed here (fortunately the 10 mm OP fisheye is not included)
The site is there in English as well, lots of info ;)
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/camera-lenses/dslr-lenses/index.page
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For all the reasons you mentioned above it will not send the light rays straight onto the sensor so it's 'not suitable' in Nikonsk
Thank you Erik, each day I learn something new! ;D
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The site is there in English as well, lots of info ;)
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/camera-lenses/dslr-lenses/index.page
Thanks Erik
Just found out and wanted to update the link
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/accessory/camera/ftz/spec.htm
it lists all non- AI lenses as incompatible which is hard to believe as there is no AI coupling lever
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Will this be an opportunity for the Cambo Actus to capitalise on new, more suitable hardware? Will the protruding grip get in the way?
Seems like they have kept good distance to grip and trigger area on the Z so potential is definitely there,,,
It's just more movement requires more coverage and it in turn requires more glass, i believe.
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It lists all non- AI lenses as incompatible which is hard to believe as there is no AI coupling lever
Perhaps "incompatible" doesn't mean unusable, like some of the limitations with the F mount? Maybe it just means unsuitable, as in loss of image quality due the the reasons Roland outlined?
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Perhaps "incompatible" doesn't mean unusable, like some of the limitations with the F mount? Maybe it just means unsuitable, as in loss of image quality due the the reasons Roland outlined?
Please read this warning from B on the 21mm f/4 Nikkor O:
Oh dear.NEVER EVER THINK OF MOUNTING THE 21/4 NIKKOR-Oon any camera except Nikon F, F2, or late NikkormatsIt will mount on a mirrorless model through the appropriate adapter, however, performance is quite poor.
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,5290.msg83795.html#msg83795
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Completely correct both of you, but is it really so that this is a big problem now? Don't we already have affordable glass that deliver the amazing image quality and we can with a quick raw conversion tinker what we need in PP,,,
For the 50mm f/1.8 S, it does have notably higher MTF than the current F mount AF-S version. There are high quality 50mm's such as the Otus and the Sigma but they are huge and heavy. I think the new 50mm f/1.8 seems to strike a good balance between weight and image quality. If the vignetting is also low then it could also be used for indoor available light images with an advantage over current f/1.8 lenses. The 58/1.4 AF-S has low vignetting but particularly soft corners. With the new mount I would expect such compromises could be avoided. Also on the Canon side their new 50/1.2 R seems to be significantly sharper than their EF mount version. I am not saying that this is all about the new mount, could be simply that they are made to a higher standard, but they haven't done that with the DSLR 50mm lenses that they produce.
The situation is that we all have tons of legacy glass,,,
Quite right, I am quite happy with my existing Nikon (and third party) lenses for the F mount but a couple of exceptions only.
Other mounts have emerged and died out quite quickly,,, I fear the Z could face the same unless the lenses really are spectacular and relatively affordable.
I think the first three lenses seem quite competitively priced given the image quality (though obviously the image quality needs to be assessed in practical use). The Noct is another situation but if Nikon bring out both a 50/1.8 and 50/1.2, then most people won't need to consider the Noct.
If they are as I fear, with various defects lateral chromatic fringing as some already report and f/1.8 I'm just raising my concern for selling off my F's and replace then with inferior Z's,,,
Lateral CA can be corrected in software and thus it can be seen as an easier-to-forgive error than, e.g., longitudinal CA (which can also be corrected in some way but at least the algorithms that I've tried have been very slow).
I doubt the new Z lenses will be inferior. It's just as the sharpness increases, it is easier to see CA if uncorrected (since other aberrations are so well corrected). I also don't think it has been Nikon's aim to make apocromatic lenses; what they seem to go for is a "pleasing overall look", though there are exceptions. The trend is now towards the greatest sharpness and somehow Sigma got ahead of Nikon in this when the 36MP cameras came out Nikon seemed to be a bit unprepared, and only more recently have been putting out lenses that take greater advantage of the high-resolution models.
Although I think Nikon lenses yield beautiful results I think they really need to work on the perceived value in the eyes of a typical customer aspect.
The pro sport shooters, birders etc. will not like sluggish or unpredictable AF so it seems we will have a very long grace period or transition to Z, if too slow it will die out,,, Sure they keep the DSLR and F-mount - Rally vice decision as a fall back! IMHO
I think it's not necessary for the system to be the best for sports or bird in flight photography; it can exist as a portrait, wedding, event, travel, landscape, video system parallel to the DSLRs. I think only a small percentage of photographers get into telephoto action due to the costs involved (not to mention heavy gear as well) and a system doesn't need to be the best at everything to find customers.
I don't think the Z system will fail. If it does, then Nikon may fail as well, since the constant drummaging by websites that make money from switchers and buyers of the latest gear has imposed on people's minds that "mirrorless is the future" (and the only future). I personally find that it is great that there is a diversity of different technologies available and prefer the DSLR for my use but sometimes this kind of waves of consumer buying trends take over and investors can make decisions that affect us in adverse ways. Also there are so many posters online who cannot tolerate diversity and want to impose the same type of camera on everyone. This is something I really dislike. Let people decide for themselves.
One advantage that the large diameter mount may be more stable when used with adapter and existing F mount lenses. The larger diameter means the forces on the mount (from a lens that is acted upon by gravity to twist the camera mount) should be a bit smaller.
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Thanks Ilkka, your right on all accounts :)
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The perceived extra stability of the new wide Z-mount with 4 claws is very obvious.
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The perceived extra stability of the new wide Z-mount with 4 claws is very obvious.
Agreed. And requires less movement angle to mount/unmount the lens, wich is comfortable. The downside is, that it unmounts itself easier when the unlock button is activated accidentially (Had a D700 coming off my 200-400 Supertele this way, when i was grabbing just the lens - fortunately the mounted MB-D10 prevented damage.
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Dpreview has some Nikon Z7 raw files available for download; these just open in the latest version of ACR. The night shots with the 35/1.8S full open look very very very promising.
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Good on me I have the 35/1.8S on order, then :D I was pretty impressed by its optical quality when I tried it in London some weeks ago. Not equally sure about the lens design and handling as such, but only field use will clarify these aspects.
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Birna, hopefully it handles reasonably well too.
ACR mentions that it uses the built-in lens profile of the 35/1.8S; for the 35/1.8S it means that in ACR both distortion and vignetting cannot be changed (on the lens corrections tab).
The latest PhotoNinja also is able to open these Z7 raw files; assuming that PN does not use any built-in profile for distortion it seems to me that the geometrical distortion of the 35/1.8S is rather low. It might mean that ACR does not do any distortion correction for this lens at all.
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Once the camera and lenses are in hand, it should be a simple matter to block the contacts with thin tape and record a photo showing the native distortion, even using ACR/Lightroom.
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« Henri Cartier-Bresson didn’t have dual card slots »
Ted Forbes (2018]
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« Henri Cartier-Bresson didn’t have dual card slots »
Ted Forbes (2018]
Heck, he dared to carry only one camera at a time !
Then again, he was not in the wedding business ;)
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Once the camera and lenses are in hand, it should be a simple matter to block the contacts with thin tape and record a photo showing the native distortion, even using ACR/Lightroom.
You can also just pump up the exposure in PP until you see the banding from the sensor, then it's quite obvious what is done in firmware and or PP
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DC World review of the Z7
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=25770&utm_term=12242905&utm_content=425713
(https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=25770&utm_term=12242905&utm_content=425713)
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DC World review of the Z7
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=25770&utm_term=12242905&utm_content=425713
(https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=25770&utm_term=12242905&utm_content=425713)
Thanks for the link
The described limited success of the Nikon 1 system was housemade and not because it was not full frame. Nikon lacked a clear concept and had the wrong lenses. With a better designed V1, there could have been a good, silent highspeed camera with attractive crop factor that is compact and easy to lug around.
For me the main issue of the Z-system is not the XQD card. I have already made the change described and XQD is my main card type already.
More crucial i see the battery life issue.
If i go for a Z it will be the Z7 on first hand. It already has more highres. than is suitable to full-format and we wont see further development in this direction. What is to be expected are future Z generations with more fps bigger cache and faster AF than the Z6 offers. As already said here the first generation Zs are not competitive for fast wildlife shootings (compared to D500, D5, D4S)
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I discovered that XQD cards have been exchanged by error, after my aborted attempt to record some Z7 pictures on my card. So, I inherited some Z7 JPEG pictures ... for what they are worth. Nevertheless, they look promising:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1897/44663585961_cc1fe93764_b.jpg)
Nikon Z 7
NIKKOR Z 24-70mm f/4 S
ƒ/4.0 34.0 mm 1/40s ISO 160
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For me the Mirrorless waiting is over,,, No Z7 for me,,,
I went for a D850 - the overall universal performance just blew me away when I got it in my hands and i was sold when I saw the files,,, Wow 8)
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Agree with Erik, I prefer the layout and OVF of the DSLR. Perhaps with more native lenses I might be persuaded, but seriously, I'm happy with my current output using now dated technology.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3bnisFXRVk
:o :o :o
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Richard, I was pleased to see the non-CPU data on the Z bodies. Now I would like to see details on the split screen zoom and how to set FL for IBIS. Watching for PDF manual.
Thanks
Tom
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It is *interesting* to see an AF fine-tune menu entry in a mirrorless camera...
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It is *interesting* to see an AF fine-tune menu entry in a mirrorless camera...
It could be for approaching subjects, sometimes it can help to set a tiny bit of front focus for those situations and then reset it when done with the scenario.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3bnisFXRVk
:o :o :o
Thank you, I finally got to see what is up at ~7 to 8 o'clock on the front end of the FTZ! I gather this switch is what prevents a non-Ai lens from being OK. I wonder if an FTZ could be modified to eliminate this (permanently short it out for example) or that maybe a third party FTZ copy to enable use with these lenses. Those I want to use include 2 AU-1 lenses, especially my 1200mm ED, and a 200mm Medical Nikkor. I don't give a damn about using any built in light metering - completely manual use would be OK.
Tom
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It is *interesting* to see an AF fine-tune menu entry in a mirrorless camera...
The Olympus EM1 series cameras have this feature as well. Needed for use with legacy lenses.
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Thank you, I finally got to see what is up at ~7 to 8 o'clock on the front end of the FTZ! I gather this switch is what prevents a non-Ai lens from being OK.
If you look carefully, you can see the switch is pushed in when the lens is set to minimum aperture. That means pre-AI lenses can be mounted, the greater overhang of the aperture ring will simply push the switch in regardless of the aperture setting. This is similar to many of the low-end DSLRs. It means most pre-AI lenses will probably mount with no problem (it would be nice to have this confirmed though).
Also, on Ric's demonstration, we see the lens stops down immediately when the aperture ring is turned, so stop-down metering is employed and you get "full-time" DOF preview. If the aperture stop-down lever in the FTZ adaptor had been engaged, the lens aperture would be held open regardless of the aperture ring setting, the lens would only stop down at the moment the picture was taken. The camera of course has no way of knowing what aperture is set, so the exposures would be wrong. Therefore, the aperture stop-down lever is somehow not engaged when non-CPU lenses are used. It would be interesting to see how it works in more detail. In a few weeks I will be in London and hope to visit Greys of Westminster, hopefully I will see for myself :)
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If you look carefully, you can see the switch is pushed in when the lens is set to minimum aperture. That means pre-AI lenses can be mounted, the greater overhang of the aperture ring will simply push the switch in regardless of the aperture setting. This is similar to many of the low-end DSLRs. It means most pre-AI lenses will probably mount with no problem (it would be nice to have this confirmed though).
Also, on Ric's demonstration, we see the lens stops down immediately when the aperture ring is turned, so stop-down metering is employed and you get "full-time" DOF preview. If the aperture stop-down lever in the FTZ adaptor had been engaged, the lens aperture would be held open regardless of the aperture ring setting, the lens would only stop down at the moment the picture was taken. The camera of course has no way of knowing what aperture is set, so the exposures would be wrong. Therefore, the aperture stop-down lever is somehow not engaged when non-CPU lenses are used. It would be interesting to see how it works in more detail. In a few weeks I will be in London and hope to visit Greys of Westminster, hopefully I will see for myself :)
I will be looking for your analysis!! I guess seeing the action of the stop down lever in the front of the FTZ during an exposure with no lens mounted would be interesting to look at with and without the switch being pushed in.
It would be great if non Ai lenses could be used as is in spite of Nikon's verboten list.
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If you look carefully, you can see the switch is pushed in when the lens is set to minimum aperture. That means pre-AI lenses can be mounted, the greater overhang of the aperture ring will simply push the switch in regardless of the aperture setting. This is similar to many of the low-end DSLRs. It means most pre-AI lenses will probably mount with no problem (it would be nice to have this confirmed though).
If the FTZ is similar to the FT1 the switch is pushed by the EE-servo coupling post of AI lenses when the Aperture is set to minimum. It is unknown what the adapter does with this information. This coupling post was invented for use with the F2AS DS12 servo and no other camera body ever since was using it as far as i know of. It should not have anything to do with pre-AI lenses compatibility as there is no EE-servo coupling post present. These should mount in genereal as there is no AI-coupling lever on the FTZ adapter (the presence is usually the obstacle if there is no possibility to put it aside - like in the Df, FM,F4) but there might be restrictions with specific lenses.
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It would be great if non Ai lenses could be used as is in spite of Nikon's verboten list.
Yes that would be great, and i dont understand why nikon has listed pre-AI lenses as incompatible in general. They have the same mount and stop- down lever als AI-(S), AF screwdriver and AF-D and AF-G-lenses do.
It is possible to use lenses on SLR too that are not officially compatible, so why not here as well?
UPDATE: Tried to mount a Nikkor-H-Auto 50mm f/2 lens (which is "AI'd" but only with the quick and dirty Dremel approach) on the FT1 Adapter (as it is the only native Pre-AI lens I have now). It does not mount due to some mechanical obstacle and so far I have not a real clue why maybe a ridge on the lens baffle does not have enough clearance with the stop-down lever of the Adapter (its not the little mechanically contact on the adapterbecause it is not activated when mounting neither with or without AI). Of course I dont know, whether this is similar with other Pre-AI lenses and whether the FTZ adapter would show the same behavior.
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I've used pre-Ai Micro 55/3.5 compensating aperture or even CRT 55/1.2 without problem on Sony NEX5R/T, Olympus E-M5MkII, Panasonic GX8, GH2 and GH5 in terms of focusing and metering.
I wonder why Nikon keeps saying that those lenses are incompatible with their mirrorless cameras including the now defunct Nikon 1.
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Some of the pre-AI lenses have pretty comprehensive flanges protruding from the rear. These can conflict with the camera mount. Once the obstacle(s) are filed off, the lenses usually will mount on the FT-1, and I suspect, the FTZ as well.
Eagerly awaiting my first Z kit that is due to arrive shortly. All these compatibility issues will be tested and evaluated of course.
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Yes, I know that. But the adapters I used with all those mirrorless cameras were dumb ones without any chip or contacts.
I wonder why Nikon mirrorless cameras are made so that they don't work with the dumb adapters?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3bnisFXRVk
:o :o :o
Richard, thank you for making this video and sharing it here
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http://richardhaw.com/2018/09/23/report-nikon-z/
just my opinions :o :o :o
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Thank you Richard! ;)
Very sober write up of your findings ;) Interesting times to follow Nikon.
And yes, there are so many hands on reviews on the new Z that finding anything worthwhile to read is an exercise in stamina, ridiculous actually.
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Richard: very refreshing write-up and your experiences by and large echo my own so far. However, my children have flown the coop so I have ordered everything 'Z' for myself :D
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Thanks Richard for this write up.
I get to see the Z-beast this coming Saturday. I hope that they will have the FTZ there for me to try as well as the cameras.
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Nice write-up Ric. Just a correction about the Z Noct, you say "I also notice that it has a very short focus throw" ... if you look at the picture you'll see it requires nearly a full revolution from infinity to the close limit of 0.5m, that's a very generous focus throw ... :)
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http://richardhaw.com/2018/09/23/report-nikon-z/
"that ergonomics are just as important as specs, if not even more"
That's the key point.
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Yes.
Thanks for the overview, Richard.
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Nice article, Richard, thank you for your insights... :)
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I wonder why Nikon keeps saying that those lenses are incompatible with their mirrorless cameras including the now defunct Nikon 1.
It seems Novoflex builds a "dumb" ring :
https://www.novoflex.de/en/products-637/lens-adapters//adapterfinder-products/nikon-z-mirrorless/adapter-nikon-f-lenses-to-nikon-z-mount.html?rgerg=38
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Exactly what they did for adapting Nikon F lenses to OM-D bodies, years ago. Fine with me (except the high price).
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At €169.00, why not just buy the Nikon FTZ adapter - not much more cost and a whole lot more functional?
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My thoughts exactly
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At €169.00, why not just buy the Nikon FTZ adapter - not much more cost and a whole lot more functional?
no reason to buy a dumb adapter instead of the FTZ for mounting F-lenses
Novoflex and MFT offer dumb adaptations of other different kind of lens mounts
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One really has to be "dumb" to pay this much for an adapter that essentially does nothing. Get the real thing, the FTZ.
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As there are lots of adapters from other mounts to Nikon F (easy due to the flange distance) it also might be easier to take an FTZ and combine it with some cheaper adapters to use EOS, FD, or whatever kind of other lenses.
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Stacking adapters is generally not the best practice. Only use if no other direct approach is available.
I expect inexpensive adapters <brandX>-Z to flood the market as soon as the Z system becomes widely available in the shops.
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i am inerested to see amedeo adapters for the Z :o :o :o
too bad he had to flee his country and rebuild his company :'(
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I have many lenses with an M39 or M42 mount. What I would like to do is mount lenses like the Nikkor “O” CRT lens on the Z7 camera and get a wider field of view than I get with an F-Mount. I see that Novoflex will have many mounts available soon. Which of these adapters would be the best purchase?
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I will just wait for amedeo muscelli or cosina ones if I were you. novoflex is too much but they are good! :o :o :o
i am surprised that theyre still in business! their competitors mostly died out in the last decade!
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I still have 19, 50 and 180 APO R lenses. Will see how they are performing on 45MP sensor, with IBIS. LZ
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This is essentially the same question I asked earlier. Perhaps someone will take the time to explain to me the physics or mechanics of getting a shorter adapter for the various non-nikkor lenses that I have. What happens if we have an adapter for the Z7 that has a Nikon-F mount, but is just shorter? In other words, how do we get a wider view (focus range) out of many of the so-called exotic lenses like the APO El Nikkor 105mm?
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In other words, how do we get a wider view out of many of the so-called exotic lenses like the APO El Nikkor 105mm?
Take a few steps back?
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Changing distance of the lens-to-film plane will make a lens focus farther or closer, or not be able to focus at all. One might be able to get a particular lens to focus closer than usual or going to infinity, but once the lens is outside the design parameters, image quality will suffer, some times dramatically so. The so-called 'X-ray' lenses (Rodenstock etc.) are prime examples of this optical fact. Even adding extension with no glass inside can influence performance badly.
An interesting lens for the Z might be the Nikkor-O 55/1.2. As it will focus to infinity on say a 1 Nikon CX or m43 camera, it should be able to do the same on an Z. However, image quality declines sharply on these small-format cameras, and combined with a Z body, in all likelihood deteriorates further. Might be interesting nevertheless. I certainly will experiment with the combination once my Z cameras arrive.
A final point is noticing one will not get a wider view on the Z, just wider range of focusing, with a lens such as the 55/1.2
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Michael, in principle making these mounts is simple, a block of aluminium, a lathe, a Dremel and a couple of files.
Making the Z mount bayonet isn't difficult, no more so than the F mount, it's a straightforward turning operation. Having done that, all you have to do is machine the lens mount of choice, which is likely not hard either, bayonet or screw. Someone with a modern CNC lathe could knock them out for fun. As fast as they can cut the blanks off a length of aluminium.
One trick idea would be to create a helicoid within the Z mount adaptor, again not difficult, single, double even quad start threads are entirely possible with ease on CNC machines. That would enable whatever focus throw you desired.
Make friends with your local CNC machine shop or a keen model engineer. Mechanically, anything is possible with the Z mount.
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Michael, in principle making these mounts is simple, a block of aluminium, a lathe, a Dremel and a couple of files.
Making the Z mount bayonet isn't difficult, no more so than the F mount, it's a straightforward turning operation. Having done that, all you have to do is machine the lens mount of choice, which is likely not hard either, bayonet or screw. Someone with a modern CNC lathe could knock them out for fun. As fast as they can cut the blanks off a length of aluminium.
One trick idea would be to create a helicoid within the Z mount adaptor, again not difficult, single, double even quad start threads are entirely possible with ease on CNC machines. That would enable whatever focus throw you desired.
Make friends with your local CNC machine shop or a keen model engineer. Mechanically, anything is possible with the Z mount.
Sorry but this must have been written with a lot of :o :o :o :o and/or :) :) :) :) :)
Such a mount as the F or Z- will be extremely expensive to make in a series of 1!
To start off it's not just ordinary aluminium, ofcourse you could get away with it but,,, the tolerances etc. not something you just do, the geometry of these mounts are in fact very complex!
You make it sound like making a focusing mechanism that don't rotate is piece of cake, sorry I don't get it,,,?
Sure you can get cheap copies but that is a whole other story!
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Here is a drawing of the F-mount
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OT Erik, I´d like this drawing for a print on a T - is it protected?
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So, I used the wrong term "wide view," when what I meant was range of focus. I use the Nikkor "O" CRT lens a lot, as well as many other "exotic" lenses, but the focus range often is very restricted. I would like to know what to ask for if I want the Nikkor "O" lens to have a larger focus range? Obviously, an adapter with a built-in helicoid that ranged from less than an F-Mount to the standard F-Mount would be perfect. However, would not adapters like 39-mm and M42 also do this? And I know that any change will mess with the optics to some degree, but with the Nikkor "O" (which already is gifted with strange optics) might not be worse for more focus range. I am just learning here.
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OT Erik, I´d like this drawing for a print on a T - is it protected?
The images are available on Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_F-mount
It's a png file I have no idea about the copyrights ;)
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So, I used the wrong term "wide view," when what I meant was range of focus. I use the Nikkor "O" CRT lens a lot, as well as many other "exotic" lenses, but the focus range often is very restricted.
1. I would like to know what to ask for if I want the Nikkor "O" lens to have a larger focus range?
2. Obviously, an adapter with a built-in helicoid that ranged from less than an F-Mount to the standard F-Mount would be perfect.
3. However, would not adapters like 39-mm and M42 also do this?
And I know that any change will mess with the optics to some degree, but with the Nikkor "O" (which already is gifted with strange optics) might not be worse for more focus range. I am just learning here.
1. An adapter with build in focus: Female Leica M39 thread mount (39mm) - to - Nikon camera Z-mount
2. A. Yes it can be more or less the length of an FTZ adapter, just with focus, depends on what is needed.
2. B. Yes Voigtlander makes such an adapter for Leica M on Sony A7, so just have patience and someone might make one and offer them online at some point in time, here a nice gentleman show it to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc5FqNIB5rc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc5FqNIB5rc)
3. Adapters usually don't have focusing build in, if your thinking using the new Nikon FTZ with an adapter, it will do absolutely no difference to your current Nikon D850 setup in any way or form regarding range or view.
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brass should be better but heavy :o :o :o
oh, it's Tom! (RIP) :'(
our best bet is amedeo muscelli
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1. An adapter with build in focus: Female Leica M39 thread mount (39mm) - to - Nikon camera Z-mount
2. A. Yes it can be more or less the length of an FTZ adapter, just with focus, depends on what is needed.
2. B. Yes Voigtlander makes such an adapter for Leica M on Sony A7, so just have patience and someone might make one and offer them online at some point in time, here a nice gentleman show it to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc5FqNIB5rc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc5FqNIB5rc)
3. Adapters usually don't have focusing build in, if your thinking using the new Nikon FTZ with an adapter, it will do absolutely no difference to your current Nikon D850 setup in any way or form regarding range or view.
Thanks EriK. I can always use a focus rail to focus, although that is second best to a helicoid. What I'm looking for, as you understand, is increase focus range for lenses like the Nikon "O."
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Exactly! ;)
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So, I used the wrong term "wide view," when what I meant was range of focus. I use the Nikkor "O" CRT lens a lot, as well as many other "exotic" lenses, but the focus range often is very restricted. I would like to know what to ask for if I want the Nikkor "O" lens to have a larger focus range? Obviously, an adapter with a built-in helicoid that ranged from less than an F-Mount to the standard F-Mount would be perfect. However, would not adapters like 39-mm and M42 also do this? And I know that any change will mess with the optics to some degree, but with the Nikkor "O" (which already is gifted with strange optics) might not be worse for more focus range. I am just learning here.
BORG, a Japanese astronomical telescope manufacturer, makes thin adapters for mirrorless bodies of Sony, m4/3 and Nikon 1 with which you can set the lens closer than using the adapters with the "correct" registry.
https://www.tomytec.co.jp/borg/products/partsByC/14
I guess they would make similar adapters for Nikon Z or Canon EOS-R. The adapter has the proprietary 49.8mm thread on the opposite side of the camera mount, but BORG also makes 49.8mm to 42mm adapter and 42mm to 39mm adapter. So, you can attatch virtually any lenses.
The attached image is the m4/3 mount adapter.
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Yes and then just add a focusing helicoid (Also know as variable extension tube ;) ) to that adapter
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Yes and then just add a focusing helicoid (Also know as variable extension tube ;) ) to that adapter
Also, you can simply omit the helicoid to maximize the focusing distance!
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Also, you can simply omit the helicoid to maximize the focusing distance!
And use a rail. That sounds good to me.
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But for 99.9% of lenses you will be beyond infinity focus on the Nikon Z :o
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But for 99.9% of lenses you will be beyond infinity focus on the Nikon Z :o
In a galaxy far, far away .... or beyond.
If the 55/1.2 Nikkor-O is really bad outside the very on-axis centre on the small m43 or CX formats (which it demonstrably is), it will be even worse on the Z. Alternative, one can get it into the design range m=1:4-1:5 and get optimum performance, but no infinity focus.
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But for 99.9% of lenses you will be beyond infinity focus on the Nikon Z :o
As a close-up photographer, I don't require infinity focus.
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I think you misunderstood Erik.
As the register distance on the Z is so much shorter than on the F , you need to add *more* extension just to get the lens to focus equally close. Meaning that with the FTZ adapter, there is no change in the focusing range at all.
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http://richardhaw.com/2018/09/23/report-nikon-z/
just my opinions :o :o :o
Richard, It is refreshing to see a down to earth opinion, thanks for sharing your article
I'm in the same boat as you interested in the Z6, plan to order it in the future.
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I think you misunderstood Erik.
As the register distance on the Z is so much shorter than on the F , you need to add *more* extension just to get the lens to focus equally close. Meaning that with the FTZ adapter, there is no change in the focusing range at all.
What I don't want is the same range as the FTZ adapter, but something that will increase that range at whatever expense to the lens IQ.
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But for 99.9% of lenses you will be beyond infinity focus on the Nikon Z :o
You don't need to focus at around infinity. Michael just wants to focus a little further than, say with Nikkor-O mounted on a D850 via BR-15.
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Then, one has to build an adapter [+ focusing] from the ground, starting with an Z mount and adding suitable extension. With the FTZ adapter in place, there will be no difference -- by definition.
The Nikkor-O, put directly on the Z, will not focus at all (or rather, it is way beyond infinity).
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Then, one has to build an adapter [+ focusing] from the ground, starting with an Z mount and adding suitable extension. With the FTZ adapter in place, there will be no difference -- by definition.
That was what I just said, before being shot down in flames by Erik?
It isn't as hard as he is making out.
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Here is a photo I just took an hour ago that suggest what I like to do with the Nikkor "O" CRT lens, wide open. The DOF is razor sharp, but by stacking that very thin depth of field and leaving the rest as bokeh, a nice effect can be had, IMO. This stack is 74 layers deep.
Nikon D850
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Wonderful as always Michael, I think you are getting the hang of it! ;D ;D ;D
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You don't need to focus at around infinity. Michael just wants to focus a little further than, say with Nikkor-O mounted on a D850 via BR-15.
It was you who posted to omit the helicoid :o :o :o Here:
Also, you can simply omit the helicoid to maximize the focusing distance!
That is why I commented that you the would be beyond infinity!
Please re-read B's posts and mine as well - and you should be able to follow ;)
I know all about Michaels line of work, we have been helping him here for years through thick and thin, adapters 8)
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That was what I just said, before being shot down in flames by Erik?
It isn't as hard as he is making out.
This is not what B is saying, B is talking about putting finished items together, something completely different.
You where talking about manufacturing the mounts!
Real F and Z-mounts are forged to withstand use.
Please get a quote for an F-mount and a Z-Mount with matching focus unit without rotation from a local workshop and share the price please ;) it will be more expensive than a Micro Nikkor 60mm AFS
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It was you who posted to omit the helicoid :o :o :o Here:
That is why I commented that you the would be beyond infinity!
Please re-read B's posts and mine as well - and you should be able to follow ;)
I know all about Michaels line of work, we have been helping him here for years through thick and thin, adapters 8)
Yes, I know. I was just referring to Nikkor-O with which you cannot focus at around 1/5 or larger when mounted on an F-mount camera via BR-15. You cannot even remove the original retaining ring. You cannot focus for any smaller magnification on an F-mount body. I do know you know that.
But the Z-mount body allows you to mount Nikkor-O closer to the sensor than the F-mout body does. That's why I said you can even remove the helicoid if the mount adapter and the helicoid combo happen to be too long for the purpose. And I do know you know that.
I think Michael understood what I said.
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not sure if I am missing something but I notice that most adapters focus past infinity :o :o :o
is there something that I dont know about!? ::)
Is it a good idea to shim my adapters so they stop at infinity?
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not sure if I am missing something but I notice that most adapters focus past infinity :o :o :o
is there something that I dont know about!? ::)
Is it a good idea to shim my adapters so they stop at infinity?
Rick, as you may have sensed, we are not talking about the adpters leaving some room for the inconsistency of the infinity stop of the attatched lenses. It is about how to focus further than the usual F-mount adapters allows.
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i think i got confused :o :o :o
time for caffeine and nicotine ::)
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i think i got confused :o :o :o
time for caffeine and nicotine ::)
I need some sleep. :o :o :o
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Good to see Nikon has published pdfs of the Z7 manuals - finally on the Download Center
https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/492/Z_7.html (https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/492/Z_7.html)
also several new firmware updates - see here on NR
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/26/nikon-releases-several-firmware-and-software-updates-180-400mm-p1000-wt-7-sb-5000-and-more.aspx/#more-127634
(https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/26/nikon-releases-several-firmware-and-software-updates-180-400mm-p1000-wt-7-sb-5000-and-more.aspx/#more-127634)
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A quick scan through the reference manual, I remain skeptical about the AF fine-tune option. If it means that S-line lenses may have to be calibrated for proper AF in default AF modes, then IMHO something went wrong very wrong...
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A quick scan through the reference manual, I remain skeptical about the AF fine-tune option. If it means that S-line lenses may have to be calibrated for proper AF in default AF modes, then IMHO something went wrong very wrong...
Just going off the other mirrorless cameras that use that feature, it should not be the case for the S-line lenses. It usually id needed for legacy/adapted glass. In the case of Olympus 4/3 glass adapted to micro four thirds, the legacy 4/3 lenses may need AF fine tune, so the feature is there. It is needed because not all 4/3 lenses are optimized for contrast detect AF and only use the PDAF on sensor feature.
My guess is that the FTZ adapted lenses may need a little help from time to time with being calibrated.
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The adapter manufacturers cannot control the tolerances of the camera or lenses. So in order to make an adapter that can be attached to any camera or lens and is guaranteed to focus on infinity, it should probably be a bit on the short side.
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Just going off the other mirrorless cameras that use that feature, it should not be the case for the S-line lenses. It usually id needed for legacy/adapted glass. In the case of Olympus 4/3 glass adapted to micro four thirds, the legacy 4/3 lenses may need AF fine tune, so the feature is there. It is needed because not all 4/3 lenses are optimized for contrast detect AF and only use the PDAF on sensor feature.
My guess is that the FTZ adapted lenses may need a little help from time to time with being calibrated.
AF fine-tune in the Z7 can store settings for up to 30 lenses... pg 295. With all the TC combinations the memory fills up fast :-)
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Another new function buried in the Z7 Focus-Stacking settings is the function "Create" that gives a B&W composite image with focus peaking to check focus across the stack after shooting. This should be useful. [pg 228 in Z7 Reference Manual]
This should be useful...
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My guess is that the FTZ adapted lenses may need a little help from time to time with being calibrated.
Very plausible, something along these lines is mentioned in the adapter compatibility document. Nikon could have been more clear about this in the manual, and picturing the S-line 24-70/4 in the AF fine-tune section is not building confidence.
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AF fine-tune in the Z7 can store settings for up to 30 lenses... pg 295. With all the TC combinations the memory fills up fast :-)
Fine tuning shouldn't be needed with on-sensor PDAF. But it may be that when a subject is approaching quickly, the AF may be lagging a bit, so by adjusting the fine tune towards front focus may help. There should not be any need to make lens-specific adjustments in the same way as with a DSLR since the PDAF sensors are in the same plane as the main image photosites. So the number of lenses possible to store seems excessive. Even DSLRs only have 12 to 20 slots (and with DSLR the fine tune is typically needed).
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I know in the past, Nikon has mentioned that the SWM motors get a little off and require some fine tune. It is possible that the pulsing motors (AF-P) suffer the same, so the feature is there. It will also depend on the AF algorithm.
Olympus uses their PDAF sensor tech to know which direction to turn the AF, but confirms the final AF using C-AF. If Nikon implements something similar, then S line lenses should not require any adjustments. All theoretical and assumption on my part.
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I know in the past, Nikon has mentioned that the SWM motors get a little off and require some fine tune.
That was exactly what the repair person at Nikon service here in Tokyo explained to me. After the fine adjustment of the motor, I didn't even need to activate the in-camera fine tuning function.
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I think its the VR :o :o :o
i do remember something like that being explained to me.
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I think its the VR :o :o :o
i do remember something like that being explained to me.
No, it's about the SWM for the AF. I've had a couple of my AF-S primes calibrated in Ginza.
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No, it's about the SWM for the AF. I've had a couple of my AF-S primes calibrated in Ginza.
the VR as well :o :o :o
the default position had to be calibrated too if I recall it
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the VR as well :o :o :o
the default position had to be calibrated too if I recall it
Okay, I'll see to it. Today, I boutght AF-P 10-20/4.5-5.6G at Fujiya Camera which is my only VR lens.
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On another forum, people are starting to get notified that theyshould be getting their cameras today. Anyone else get the same?
My FTZ adapter has shipped, but i ordered the Z6....so I'll be putting the FTZ on the shelf until November! :D
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Andrew, I hope you are not ordering the 50/1.8...
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/28/the-nikon-nikkor-z-50mm-f-1-8-s-mirrorless-lens-is-delayed-until-mid-december.aspx/
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a few people that i know of already got theirs :o :o :o
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Andrew, I hope you are not ordering the 50/1.8...
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/28/the-nikon-nikkor-z-50mm-f-1-8-s-mirrorless-lens-is-delayed-until-mid-december.aspx/
No, sir....the 24-70/4 kit. I already have the 50mm f/1.8G that I will use adapted. I think I'd be more interested in 35mm S lens anyway as a native prime if I go that route. I'm thinking that the 24-70/4 will be sufficient for my needs. If it is sharp enough, I might also sell the 24-70/2.8G. Can't wait to test that out though.
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I handled the Z7 today at NPS and is not my thing at all. It was equipped with the 1.8/35mm native lens, the AF was fast and accurate but ergonomics was far off for my hands, weight distribution was plain wrong. Nothing compared to the D500 which is just perfect and the D850 which is next to perfect for me or the D3. nono for me.
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I handled the Z7 today at NPS and is not my thing at all. It was equipped with the 1.8/35mm native lens, the AF was fast and accurate but ergonomics was far off for my hands, weight distribution was plain wrong. Nothing compared to the D500 which is just perfect and the D850 which is next to perfect for me or the D3. nono for me.
I'd be interested to hear more, specifically about the weight distribution. Too front heavy? Back Heavy? Unbalanced one side or the other?
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review by Ming Thein of the Nikon Z7 with 24-70/4 Z Nikkor
https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/09/29/2018-nikon-z7-24-70-review/ (https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/09/29/2018-nikon-z7-24-70-review/)
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I'd be interested to hear more, specifically about the weight distribution. Too front heavy? Back Heavy? Unbalanced one side or the other?
mostly hanging to the right, with bigger lenses probably hanging to the front too, I guess. Did not try.
Again: the D500 (gripped) still features the best ergonomics in my book. The D850 is a tad on the large side, the D5 is better than the D850 but I do not like the distribution of buttons in portrait mode
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mostly hanging to the right, with bigger lenses probably hanging to the front too, I guess. Did not try.
An L-bracket might improve the hanging to the right imbalance (my experience from the D7100).
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review by Ming Thein of the Nikon Z7 with 24-70/4 Z Nikkor
https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/09/29/2018-nikon-z7-24-70-review/ (https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/09/29/2018-nikon-z7-24-70-review/)
It's great to see Ming Thein reviewing Nikon products again, IMO.
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So how will it compare with the d850, same sensor, but...
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I'm using a D5 and a D850 on a daily basis. I tried the Z7 for a couple of hours. I felt quickly familiar with its handling. Just perfect ergonomics, as far I can make an assessed judgment, given the short time frame.
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PS: I just noticed that I used the EVF yesterday without even noticing that is was an EVF. Something like this never happened to me before. Even the very good XPro2 EVF was clearly an EVF, the GFX EVF,is clearly inferior to theXPro2.
Just WOW.
I felt fully naturally like A DSLR OVF.
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PPS: silent. great. love the silent release. beautiful.
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Frank, it almost seems as if you are retrospectively falling in love?
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All the Nikons I bought during the last four decades came in yellow-gold boxes, this one arrived in a black box with a yellow bottom. A free Sony 64GB 440/400MB/s XQD card was in the box.
First impression: body is a little smaller than expected, but with a very good grip and the (not too small) AF-ON button at the right location. The 35/1.8S is longer than expected, a little bit weird and beercanish. It has a metal focus ring. Together not too light, and not too heavy.
This time no need to wait for the battery to charge; I already own a pile of EL-EN15 batteries for the other Nikons.
I must have searched in vain for a rather long time to find the auto-magnify function (for Z lenses with focus ring movement detection), but it doesn’t seem to be there. So I assigned the 1:1 zoom function to the red video record button. The good news is that manual focus override is always possible without touching a button at all (like with an AF-S lens on a DSLR). Of course this makes only sense if AF activation is removed from the release button. Fuji and Sony don’t have this…
The FTZ adapter works well with AF-S G and E lenses in AF mode; it is very very very easy now to pinpoint focus with the 58/1.4 NeoNoct at F/1.4.
For all lenses with a CPU it seems that the Z7 always closes the aperture down up to F/5.6; beyond that it keeps the aperture at F/5.6. As far I can see, and as expected, lenses without CPU (Ai, Ais Nikkors) are always used stopped down.
For non-CPU lenses it seems essential to enter the lens data correctly in order to have the IBIS work properly. Having lenses chipped makes even more sense now.
No strap attached yet, but handholding with the FTZ adapter isn’t that uncomfortable at all, even with bigger and heavier Nikkors.
A lot to try yet, best thing now is to go out shooting.
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Frank, it almost seems as if you are retrospectively falling in love?
No. The only reason I might be liking it is as a digiback for my sinar p2.
The mirrorbox hinders me from using a focal length shorter than 90mm. With a gain of 30,5mm register distance I imagine I get more movements and can cater to shorter FL.
I will wait and see how things develop and if they develop well, I might be getting a Z-mount-bellows-adapter for maximum movements and shorter FL. Currently I only need the 120mm for Table Tops to do my work, so no need to change... plus: I just dug out some huge prints done with an earlier setup and 12MP. Mind blowing IQ ten years ago. I cannot really imagine a custumer paying one cent more for something technically even more advanced
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No. The only reason I might be liking it is as a digiback for my sinar p2.
The mirrorbox hinders me from using a focal length shorter than 90mm. With a gain of 30,5mm register distance I imagine I get more movements and can cater to shorter FL.
I will wait and see how things develop and if they develop well, I might be getting a Z-mount-bellows-adapter for maximum movements and shorter FL. Currently I only need the 120mm for Table Tops to do my work, so no need to change... plus: I just dug out some huge prints done with an earlier setup and 12MP. Mind blowing IQ ten years ago. I cannot really imagine a custumer paying one cent more for something technically even more advanced
I am interested, as you are, with using the Nikon Z7 on a view camera (Cambo Actus Mini) and understand that Cambo will have a Z7 mount but have not been able to determine if it is the mount we have to screw in (three screws) or the whole mount that is pre-assembled and just locks in easily.
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Just a quick update about my experience using the Z7 in the field today.
I mainly do wildlife photography and I normally uses D5 and D850.
Today I tried out the Z7 in combination with my D5 on the 180-400VR and 70-200VRII photographing fast moving birds in the Norwegian mountains.
For still photos of fast moving birds the autofocus in Z7 are not keeping up. I got great pictures of birds sitting still, but as soon as there was rapid movement it failed (sparrow hawks chasing jays are not an easy target).
Every time I take a photo the EVF freezes for a very short while. This makes the action in the EVF feel a bit like slow motion.
For movies the camera works fine, much better than my other cameras and I got some movie of fast moving birds that looked good.
Battery life was not a problem but you need extra batteries for a day in a hide.
Conclusion for my use is that the camera sadly is no alternative for my D850 but I´m still hoping they can fix the slow autofocus in software. My camera have firmware 1.00
If your main photography are slow moving targets and movies I think the Z7 will be a good alternative. Picture quality is really good, as expected with the D850 sensor with updated electronics.
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Just a quick update about my experience using the Z7 in the field today.
I mainly do wildlife photography and I normally uses D5 and D850.
Today I tried out the Z7 in combination with my D5 on the 180-400VR and 70-200VRII photographing fast moving birds in the Norwegian mountains.
For still photos of fast moving birds the autofocus in Z7 are not keeping up. I got great pictures of birds sitting still, but as soon as there was rapid movement it failed (sparrow hawks chasing jays are not an easy target).
Every time I take a photo the EVF freezes for a very short while. This makes the action in the EVF feel a bit like slow motion.
For movies the camera works fine, much better than my other cameras and I got some movie of fast moving birds that looked good.
Battery life was not a problem but you need extra batteries for a day in a hide.
Conclusion for my use is that the camera sadly is no alternative for my D850 but I´m still hoping they can fix the slow autofocus in software. My camera have firmware 1.00
If your main photography are slow moving targets and movies I think the Z7 will be a good alternative. Picture quality is really good, as expected with the D850 sensor with updated electronics.
Thats what was to be expected and I dont think it will be resolvable by firmware update. And BTW the D850 is not a full alternative to the D5 because the cache is not sufficient
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Just a quick update about my experience using the Z7 in the field today.
I mainly do wildlife photography and I normally uses D5 and D850.
Today I tried out the Z7 in combination with my D5 on the 180-400VR and 70-200VRII photographing fast moving birds in the Norwegian mountains.
For still photos of fast moving birds the autofocus in Z7 are not keeping up. I got great pictures of birds sitting still, but as soon as there was rapid movement it failed (sparrow hawks chasing jays are not an easy target).
Every time I take a photo the EVF freezes for a very short while. This makes the action in the EVF feel a bit like slow motion.
For movies the camera works fine, much better than my other cameras and I got some movie of fast moving birds that looked good.
Battery life was not a problem but you need extra batteries for a day in a hide.
Conclusion for my use is that the camera sadly is no alternative for my D850 but I´m still hoping they can fix the slow autofocus in software. My camera have firmware 1.00
If your main photography are slow moving targets and movies I think the Z7 will be a good alternative. Picture quality is really good, as expected with the D850 sensor with updated electronics.
How did the D850 compare to the D5 regarding AF in the situation you described?
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I did not use D850 yesterday, but previous experience with D5/D850 autofocus on birds is that D5 is faster than D850 and that D850 is faster than D810. I think D500 is more close to D5 autofocus than D850.
About buffer size on D850 I think that for my use there is enough buffer in D850 for my use. D850 is not an alternative to D5, it is my second camera in those scenarios.
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I did not use D850 yesterday, but previous experience with D5/D850 autofocus on birds is that D5 is faster than D850 and that D850 is faster than D810. I think D500 is more close to D5 autofocus than D850.
About buffer size on D850 I think that for my use there is enough buffer in D850 for my use. D850 is not an alternative to D5, it is my second camera in those scenarios.
I see it pretty much the same. I did not upgrade to D5 so far and can tell the D4S is more than competitive with D500 and D850. I see no limitations with D4S and D500 but sometimes ran into full buffer with the D850. I am choosing them according to the planned shooting.
We have to wait for some years until a Z camera might be on the same level.
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Wolfgang: Which Memory Cards do you use in the D850? I have not had a single buffer full with the Lexar 2933x XQD, but I had trouble when using SD cards, also UHS 2, which seem to be performing well on paper but are much slower in real life.
Michael: I do not understand your question. Is it about the Cambus or the Z7?
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Wolfgang: Which Memory Cards do you use in the D850? I have not had a single buffer full with the Lexar 2933x XQD, but I had trouble when using SD cards, also UHS 2, which seem to be performing well on paper but are much slower in real life.
Frank: I am using a 128 GB Sony G type XQD card (and a Sandisk Extreme Pro SD card but only as a reserve not as a RAID1- mirror) which should equal the speed of the Lexar 2933 XQD i am using in the other XQD-cameras (well 440 MB/s R, 400 W, the lexar does 440 R but i dont know whether it keeps this speed for writing as well). I bought the Sony because at that time there was no Lexar evailable any more and for the D850 i wanted to have a bigger card than the 64 GB i am using elswhere. Never gave the D850 a try with one of the Lexar cards, should test this in the future to see whether there is a noticeable difference.
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Wolfgang: Which Memory Cards do you use in the D850? I have not had a single buffer full with the Lexar 2933x XQD, but I had trouble when using SD cards, also UHS 2, which seem to be performing well on paper but are much slower in real life.
I also find this. Initially with the D850, I found it easy to run into the buffer from time to time. Now I keep the SD slot empty and use only G series Sony XQDs, after I made this change, I have not felt the D850 buffer limiting for my use. But, I mostly now use the EN-EL15a batteries as the sound of the camera is a bit quieter that way, and the camera feels a bit lighter, and for most of my shooting this is preferred rather than the extra 2fps. For high frame rate, I more typically use the D5. With the EN-EL18a I still feel the D850 performed well in figure skating photography and I was able to shoot quite liberally without problems.
I would recommend only using the XQD slot and switch to 12-bit compressed or 12-bit lossless compressed NEF when shooting at 9fps. If using 14-bit recording and 9fps then I can see how one might run into the limits of the camera, but 14-bit capture probably doesn't deliver better image quality at ISO 400 or above.
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I would recommend only using the XQD slot and switch to 12-bit compressed or 12-bit lossless compressed NEF when shooting at 9fps. If using 14-bit recording and 9fps then I can see how one might run into the limits of the camera, but 14-bit capture probably doesn't deliver better image quality at ISO 400 or above.
I have set the camera to 12 bit NEF lossless compressed and am using it both with EN-El15 and the EN-EL18 together with battery grip. Will need to do further testing, did not have too much shooting time the last months.
As i said i do not use the SD card but so far I havent thought that inserting a card while not using it may be a delaying factor as well??
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I need an L-Bracket/Plate for the Nikon Z7, but I understand that you would have to take it off everytime you want to use the FTZ adapter, which is not acceptable to me.
Does anyone know of an L-Bracket that works with the FTZ adapter without having to remove it each time?
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I need an L-Bracket/Plate for the Nikon Z7, but I understand that you would have to take it off everytime you want to use the FTZ adapter, which is not acceptable to me.
Does anyone know of an L-Bracket that works with the FTZ adapter without having to remove it each time?
Because the FTZs tripod mount is in the way, and the Arca profile might be broader than the camera? (this could be solved with a decentered solution). Maybe it is too early for L-brackets. RRS lists Z7-brackets as to be designed.
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Because the FTZs tripod mount is in the way, and the Arca profile might be broader than the camera? (this could be solved with a decentered solution). Maybe it is too early for L-brackets. RRS lists Z7-brackets as to be designed.
I hear you, but it is not too early to point out what we need, correct?
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I hear you, but it is not too early to point out what we need, correct?
yes thats correct.
But if there is not positive answer now, it would be too early to give in already
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As i said i do not use the SD card but so far I havent thought that inserting a card while not using it may be a delaying factor as well??
The SD in the slot sould only delay if you set the memory management to "backup". The buffer then clears at SD card speed not at XQD speed. I did that once. It was healed by emptying the SD card slot.
The fps and AF speed of the D850 and possibly the data rate too, depend on the voltage the camera is operated with. With the ENEL 15 it is 7 Volts, the D5 batteries work at 11.4 Volts. The buffer size stays the same but the buffer fills much faster with 9 fps. I shoot 14 bit RAW lossless compressed plus JPEG fine and did not fall into a full buffer yet. For birds I might fall back to NEF only.
Buffer fills faster with uncompressed than with lossless compressed of course.
PS: my D850 sometimes does not recognize the ENEL18 if an ENEL15 is present. Work around is to open the battery compartmemt, slide theD5 battery out and in again.
Never had that with an empty ENEL15 compartement.
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I have set the camera to 12 bit NEF lossless compressed and am using it both with EN-El15 and the EN-EL18 together with battery grip. Will need to do further testing, did not have too much shooting time the last months.
As i said i do not use the SD card but so far I havent thought that inserting a card while not using it may be a delaying factor as well??
I have not tested, but I have read that having an SD card in the D850 slows it down. Maybe you could do a test?
I use 2933x 440MB/s XQD in my cameras.
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I have not tested, but I have read that having an SD card in the D850 slows it down. Maybe you could do a test?
I use 2933x 440MB/s XQD in my cameras.
I could do a test shooting, but no precise measurements and it will take some time.
BTW The cache of the Z-series appears to be more limited given the specification
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Wolfgang: I did a little research on the net: several users report that an SD card in the camera set to "overflow" will NOT slow down the camera, whereas an SD card set to "backup" will.
In your case I would check the real speed of your XQD with H2testw and try 12/14 bit compressed/uncompressed in the camera settings for speed of buffer cleaning
PS: your best option will probably be 14 bit lossless compresses which is a tad over half the size of a 14 bit uncompressed file meaning "double your buffer size"
according to this test: https://www.google.de/amp/s/photographylife.com/compressed-vs-uncompressed-vs-lossless-compressed-raw/amp
the 12bit option gives you only another 10%
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PS: your best option will probably be 14 bit lossless compresses which is a tad over half the size of a 14 bit uncompressed file meaning "double your buffer size"
according to this test: https://www.google.de/amp/s/photographylife.com/compressed-vs-uncompressed-vs-lossless-compressed-raw/amp
the 12bit option gives you only another 10%
That's with a D810.
With a D850 there is a dramatic difference between maximum burst depths obtained with 14-bit and 12-bit lossless compressed (51 vs. 170 images at 7fps; 54 vs. 29 at 9fps), according to the user manual (7fps) and menu guide (9fps). So the most important thing to do is when expecting the buffer to limit one's shooting, use 12-bit recording instead of 14-bit with this camera. And use a fast XQD card. The max burst depth figures in the manual seem to be taken with lens cap on and base ISO, in real-world subjects you typically get fewer shots but it still holds true that the 12-bit recording gives significantly longer bursts. A slight additional gain is achievable if you turn on compressed NEF instead of lossless compressed NEF (200 vs. 170 for 7fps; 56 vs. 54 for 12-bit 9fps).
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The SD in the slot sould only delay if you set the memory management to "backup". The buffer then clears at SD card speed not at XQD speed. I did that once. It was healed by emptying the SD card slot.
The fps and AF speed of the D850 and possibly the data rate too, depend on the voltage the camera is operated with. With the ENEL 15 it is 7 Volts, the D5 batteries work at 11.4 Volts. The buffer size stays the same but the buffer fills much faster with 9 fps. I shoot 14 bit RAW lossless compressed plus JPEG fine and did not fall into a full buffer yet. For birds I might fall back to NEF only.
Buffer fills faster with uncompressed than with lossless compressed of course.
PS: my D850 sometimes does not recognize the ENEL18 if an ENEL15 is present. Work around is to open the battery compartmemt, slide theD5 battery out and in again.
Never had that with an empty ENEL15 compartement.
Difference in AF- speed when using ENEL18 vs 15?
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No difference in AF speed in connection with grip and EN EL18 or other options.
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No difference in AF speed in connection with grip and EN EL18 or other options.
Thank you, Erik, reassuring 🙂.
Then I’ll manage without it.
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I spoke with the Really Right Stuff staff and they tell me they are very aware of the problem of attaching the FTZ adapter has to be taken into account when designing an L-Bracket. While not promising a solution, they are on the case.
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I spoke with the Really Right Stuff staff and they tell me they are very aware of the problem of attaching the FTZ adapter has to be taken into account when designing an L-Bracket. While not promising a solution, they are on the case.
Thats good news. Thanks for the efforts. I like their L-Brackets. I hope they'll find a solution
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It shouldn't be that difficult to design a L-plate that allows for attaching the FTZ adapter (although the tripod mount on the body is rather offset towards the front). The bottom of the Z7 has approximately the same width as a dovetail, and during mounting of the FTZ it will not touch the bottom inner side of the grip or plate. Depending on the clamp design however, it might touch the FTZ.
It will get more complicated however if a mounting plate is to be attached to the FTZ itself. Then, depending on design, all kinds of interferences might occur.
For sure there is a need for such a FTZ plate; with bigger Nikkors without tripod feet (e.g. 105/1.4E) and FTZ it is imho not advisable to clamp the body itself.
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It is still early days before we see thorough reviews of the Z7, let alone the barely glimpsed Z6. NR have highlighted the more useful rapid appraisals and impressions. Following close on Ming Thein (see link above) Photography Life has put out their Part 1. This is one space I've learnt to watch, and learnt a great deal, including Nikkors telephotos especially. Completing the D850 review took PL well into 2018
https://photographylife.com/nikon-z7-first-impressions-and-sample-photos#comment-269426 (https://photographylife.com/nikon-z7-first-impressions-and-sample-photos#comment-269426)
I don't normally cross-links posts across Forums but this one caught my eye ;)
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61734872 (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61734872)
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The rangefinder cameras like Leica M actually has a quite a feature in that with most lenses you have a completely clear view directly of the whole scene and at the same time you can actually through the viewfinder see what is going on outside the image frame, this can be an extremely nice advantage for reportage and PJ style shooting. same as shooting a DX lens on a FX camera with the masking off, takes some getting used to but works,,, Just a heads up from the Leica M camp ;)
Just remember:
Masking is only possible with D700, D800 and D810 if AF point illumination is turned off ;) 8)
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I spoke with the Really Right Stuff staff and they tell me they are very aware of the problem of attaching the FTZ adapter has to be taken into account when designing an L-Bracket. While not promising a solution, they are on the case.
Seems to me an FTZ variant along the lines of the PN11 extension with a foot, possibly rotatable or offset to allow fitting, depending on the arc needed with the four prong bayonet mount.
If somebody could get one of those made it would be a big advantage for heavy lenses and studio work. While the larger mount would seem strong, the thin body appears flimsy compared with a thicker DSLR.
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The Z7 body is assembled out of cast magnesium parts, it's quite sturdy and well capable of withstanding bending and certainly no risk that the Z-mount bending or coming off during normal use, the screws are directly into the casting unlike many DSLR, even the D810 for instance has plastic under the F-mount itself ,,,
The Z6 and 7 castings are not similar to for instance a D5, the Z body is made out of several parts that are put together, so yes less strong than the some of the Pro DSLR.
There will for sure be a lot of plates both for the FTZ and Z7, may I suggest a bit of patience,,, :o :o :o
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Just remember:
Masking is only possible with D700, D800 and D810 if AF point illumination is turned off ;) 8)
Just what I wanted to know, as I sometimes use my D800 in DX mode.
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There will for sure be a lot of plates both for the FTZ and Z7, may I suggest a bit of patience,,, :o :o :o
All the patience is already needed waiting for the S-Line 85/1.8S and 20/1.8S. :)
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That's with a D810.
With a D850 there is a dramatic difference between maximum burst depths obtained with 14-bit and 12-bit lossless compressed (51 vs. 170 images at 7fps; 54 vs. 29 at 9fps), according to the user manual (7fps) and menu guide (9fps). So the most important thing to do is when expecting the buffer to limit one's shooting, use 12-bit recording instead of 14-bit with this camera. And use a fast XQD card. The max burst depth figures in the manual seem to be taken with lens cap on and base ISO, in real-world subjects you typically get fewer shots but it still holds true that the 12-bit recording gives significantly longer bursts. A slight additional gain is achievable if you turn on compressed NEF instead of lossless compressed NEF (200 vs. 170 for 7fps; 56 vs. 54 for 12-bit 9fps).
thank you very much!!!
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No difference in AF speed in connection with grip and EN EL18 or other options.
Did you try it? How did you measure it? I just remembered I read it befor but it might be I remember wrong.
I am quite positive that screw driver AF is much faster on 11.4V than it is on 7V
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The speed of the AF is chosen according to the lens mounted on the camera and if a TC is mounted and what TC it is.
If the AF is too speedy accuriring and locking might fail more often. As usual it's a value conservatively chosen by Nikon engineers.
Only tweak I know of is to remove the last pin connection on the 2xTC's to speed up the AF,,, and yes then it can miss acquisition,,,
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The easiest af speed test is to mount a lens cap and shoot a video of the focus scale while the lens is hunting for focus between the two end stops.
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Thank you, Erik
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The easiest af speed test is to mount a lens cap and shoot a video of the focus scale while the lens is hunting for focus between the two end stops.
That doesn't take into account how much time the camera spends processing that data and making a decision about focus adjustments. One would need to trigger the AF electrically and then record the trigger signal in a synchronous way with the video to see how much time the camera spends from the command to focus until completion. I suspect one would need to repeat this procedure many times with different scenarios to see what changes there are, if any. We know the mirror moves faster with the EN-EL18 series battery, which also creates a louder and higher pitch sound. However, it is harder to make definite evaluation of AF performance.
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The easiest ,,,,
8)
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8)
Right, I understand your point, I just wanted to emphasize that it is not a simple thing to prove that there is no difference, or measure how large the difference there is.
I can consider setting up an experiment; I guess if I used the audio channel of a video camera to insert the trigger signal it could work, at least if there is no delay associated with the input. But this won't happen soon; I just don't have the time to put into it, and since the camera works great I don't have a pressing need. :)
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AF speed does not only mean how fast the motor drives the lens which is very difficult to measure because some lenses AF well with one camera and not with others. For me AF speed means how fast and how often critical focus is acquired. That I cannot measure with a lens cap on.
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We were focusing on speed, yes ;)
Acquisition and locking on depends also on how long time the mirror and sub mirror are in the correct position for the AF module to work properly, and since the mirror is definitely behaving differently so will the sub mirror be,,, Here the grip will make a difference,,, how much, not sure, will be very difficult to measure,,, but try it out ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dVmGVa3Rbw
Here the clear difference between a couple of old workhorses ;)
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The new Nikon mirrorless system is of course a fine system in its own right.
There are however some factors that would warrant the suggestion that the days of the (D)SLR may not be numbered after all.
- Mirrorless technology means considerably higher energy consumption. There is no way around it; a given battery capacity will always give a significantly higher number of exposures with an optical construction. This superiority will be even more significant in cold weather. Have you ever done northern light (aurora) photography. I and my friends have. Our Canon and Nikon DSLRs held up just fine even if we had to change batteries every now and then, and the DSLRs with their optical viewfinders functioned with no problems even in -43 and -49 in Northern Norway. How would a mirrorless camera do in such cold environments?
- We have cameras with optical viewfinders that last for decades, and an optical system lasts for an unlimited time. We know that LCD and in particular OLED technology does not last forever before they start to weaken. How long are present-day electronic finders made to last?
- The use of existing lenses requires the FTZ adapter, which means the insertion of an additional gadget between the body and the lens. For some this is okay, others will think that they are better served with Nikon's DSLRs since they give native compatibility - which means no need for an adapter which builds out the size of the whole rig. I may not be the only one who does not feel like buying high end lenses for $$$$ and then need an adapter to be able to use them.
- An even more significant factor is that the mirrorless system is incompatible with the many millions of brilliant Nikkor AI and AIS lenses out there. Yes, you can attach a manual Nikkor to the adapter and the camera will meter - but unfortunately it will be old style stop down metering. And unfortunately, the electronic viewfinder is no substitute for wide open metering. Usually, a lens is not used at full aperture. When stopping down from for example 2.8 to 5.6 there is a 200% loss of light. At aperture 8.0 there is an 800% light loss from full aperture 2.8. When the electronic viewfinder has to compensate for such major losses of light, the quality of the image will be dramatically reduced - and many will be of the opinion that the optical viewfinder gives the clearest and best image to start with. It may be suggested that stop down metering is not what we want in the 21th century. The existence of manual lenses is just another reason why the (D)SLR may enjoy a long life.
Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway
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The new Nikon mirrorless system is of course a fine system in its own right.
There are however some factors that would warrant the suggestion that the days of the (D)SLR may not be numbered after all.
- Mirrorless technology means considerably higher energy consumption. There is no way around it; a given battery capacity will always give a significantly higher number of exposures with an optical construction. This superiority will be even more significant in cold weather. Have you ever done northern light (aurora) photography. I and my friends have. Our Canon and Nikon DSLRs held up just fine even if we had to change batteries every now and then, and the DSLRs with their optical viewfinders functioned with no problems even in -43 and -49 in Northern Norway. How would a mirrorless camera do in such cold environments?
- We have cameras with optical viewfinders that last for decades, and an optical system lasts for an unlimited time. We know that LCD and in particular OLED technology does not last forever before they start to weaken. How long are present-day electronic finders made to last?
- The use of existing lenses requires the FTZ adapter, which means the insertion of an additional gadget between the body and the lens. For some this is okay, others will think that they are better served with Nikon's DSLRs since they give native compatibility - which means no need for an adapter which builds out the size of the whole rig. I may not be the only one who does not feel like buying high end lenses for $$$$ and then need an adapter to be able to use them.
- An even more significant factor is that the mirrorless system is incompatible with the many millions of brilliant Nikkor AI and AIS lenses out there. Yes, you can attach a manual Nikkor to the adapter and the camera will meter - but unfortunately it will be old style stop down metering. And unfortunately, the electronic viewfinder is no substitute for wide open metering. Usually, a lens is not used at full aperture. When stopping down from for example 2.8 to 5.6 there is a 200% loss of light. At aperture 8.0 there is an 800% light loss from full aperture 2.8. When the electronic viewfinder has to compensate for such major losses of light, the quality of the image will be dramatically reduced - and many will be of the opinion that the optical viewfinder gives the clearest and best image to start with. It may be suggested that stop down metering is not what we want in the 21th century. The existence of manual lenses is just another reason why the (D)SLR may enjoy a long life.
Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway
Per,
Your points seem quite similar to those made when we moved from film cameras to digital. Somehow we managed to get past those issues, and I think we will again. In the meantime pull out the old FM and pop in a roll of film.
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I plan to check out the Z6 for low light shooting, but I'll not be an early adopter.
On the partial incompatibility of the the FTZ with Ai/AiS lenses:
1. It seems to me possible that an adapter could have the rotating Ai follower, and internally transduce its position into aperture data to feed to the camera through the contacts. Doesn't solve the 'big lens on small body' problem, of course.
2. With Ai lenses and the Z cams, there will always be old-fashioned manual exposure: Asses the brightness of the scene (with or without a light meter,) set shutter speed and aperture, take picture.
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On the partial incompatibility of the the FTZ with Ai/AiS lenses:
1. It seems to me possible that an adapter could have the rotating Ai follower, and internally transduce its position into aperture data to feed to the camera through the contacts. Doesn't solve the 'big lens on small body' problem, of course.
It should be noted that not only non-CPU lenses are used stopped down; on the Z7 lenses with a CPU are also used stopped down in the range from full-open down to F/5.6. Beyond F/5.6, there is no further stopping down (this behaviour is good for preventing focussing errors due to focus shift).
This current Z7 system behaviour makes a rotating Ai follower not useful down to F/5.6.
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It should be noted that not only non-CPU lenses are used stopped down; on the Z7 lenses with a CPU are also used stopped down in the range from full-open down to F/5.6. Beyond F/5.6, there is no further stopping down (this behaviour is good for preventing focussing errors due to focus shift).
This current Z7 system behaviour makes a rotating Ai follower not useful down to F/5.6.
How does DOF preview work with large apertures? Often focusing is more critical wide open.
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How does DOF preview work with large apertures? Often focusing is more critical wide open.
It means that for the larger apertures from full-open down to F/5.6 there is always DOF preview, beyond F/5.6 one gets the F/5.6 DOF.
BTW this "down to F/5.6" aperture closing mechanism also works in e.g. S mode, one can observe the aperture dynamically changing depending on light conditions or adjusted shutter (or ISO) speed.
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Some first thoughts about the Z7
My Nikon Z7 arrived and a hefty little thing it is. No, it is not as large as my D850, but it is heavy enough with a lens on it. Of course, the first thing I discovered is that there are no L-Plates that fit the Z7 available. There are some for preorder, but when I called Really Right Stuff and ordered one, it seemed from talking with them that they have not yet even figured out how they are going to approach the FTZ adapter in relation to L-plates. So, for now I have to use a large and heavy (giant) L-Plate adapter from Novoflex for portrait mode. Either that or swing my Arca-Swiss Cube geared head 90 degrees.
In fact, it dawned on me that if the only reason I am getting a mirrorless Nikon is to save space and weight, the savings are not that great. As mentioned, the Z7 is a weighty thing. So, what’s left? For me, there is the new mount and the promise of faster lenses wide open, which I would like a lot.
As for the FTZ adapter, it seems great. In fact, once attached, the camera feels like any DSLR all over again, so tightly does it fit in. I also look forward to mounting the Z7 on my view camera and gaining a little added focus range there. I have mounts for that on order.
As for the EVF, yes! It does feel like an OVF or at least I am not conscious of it being electronic as I have been with other mirrorless cameras I have owned (Sony, Hasselblad, GFX, etc.). It is really nice AND YOU CAN MAGNIFY IT! As for the rear LCD? It’s about what I am used to with the D850, so no problem there.
My pocketbook groaned when I played with the 24-70 f/4 lens because it is obvious that it fits the camera like a glove and if the new mount ups the APO-quotient for native lenses, I can see myself wanting a few more of these natural Z7 lenses. Ouch! Perhaps it’s time for me to off-load some of my many legacy F-mount lenses!
As for menus and buttons, well, what’s new? Every camera-iteration has some of that and while the Z7 is a lot like my D850, it’s different too. The little OLED (or whatever it is) on the top of the camera is very handy and easy to READ.
I can see that I will probably do a lot more point-and-shoot with the Z7, since it is so “handy.” As many have said, this is not simply a replacement for the D850, but something in itself. I imagine a smaller kit to travel with that contains the native 24-70 Z7 lens, the adapter and one or two legacy F-mount lenses. And since the video in the Z7 is a step-up, I can see using it (with an XLR-add-on) and ported to my Atomos Shogun Inferno as 10-bit 4K 4:2:2 FF video (and log gamma modes) to do interviews or whatever. I won’t have to carry a larger dedicated video camera, etc.
I have yet to see for myself (or hear from others) if anything else about the Z7 is problematical, especially if the image quality is as good as the D850 and if the banding-issue affects my work. My guess is that it won’t.
So, I am just getting familiar with the Z7. Next for me, is to try a lot of non-native lenses via the adapter and see if everything is equal.
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Indeed the new Z mount is, mho, a serious point of interest so lets see what the future will bring in this respect.
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IMHO the Z mount made a very good start with the 35/1.8S (I didn't buy the zoomy thingy so cannot say anything about that). Lovely bokeh rendering and sharp already wide open from near to far.
The metal focus ring is properly damped (but the focus by wire can sometimes act a little weird). If anything, there is some (easy to remove) purple fringing aroud highlights full open. So I am very interested what the 20/1.8S and 85/1.8S (both will come next year) will bring.
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Since the video on the Z7 has been (somewhat) upgraded, what kit/connectors would you suggest to add XLR connectors so that the various Rode mics could be used, if you know?
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I can now physically see that the problem of L-Plates and the FTZ adapter is a tough one. Now that I have the camera and the adapter, it does not work well with L-Plates or any plate. Even short single plates extend out where the FTZ adapter wants to be. I have ordered a VERY thin Arca-Swiss plate that may be able to get around the problem, but it has not arrived yet. Checking out non-native lenses and they seem, so far, to work well. Since I have no reasonable L-Plate, I am forced to used the Arca Cube geared head at a 90-degree angle, which is not as stable.
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Sounds like a Dremel is called for ...
I'll get my Z system shortly and will experiment with various brackets.
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Disassembly of the Z7 at Kolarivision:
https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/
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Birna;Look no further!....
3 Legged Thing has the worlds first L brackets for Z6/Z7.
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Birna;Look no further!....
3 Legged Thing has the worlds first L brackets for Z6/Z7.
It does not handle the FTZ adapter as far as I can see, which is what is needed for those of us with a lot of legacy glass.
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Michael, could you please post an image of the presumed l-plate issue as I don't understand the problem.
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Disassembly of the Z7 at Kolarivision:
https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/ (https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/)
They don't waste time ;)The most interesting thing here apart from design and build quality is this quote:
Another unique aspect: the cover glass of the Z7’s sensor is about half a thick as the Sony’s, coming in at 1.1mm. This means the Nikon will have better performance with adapter lenses right out of the box. However, with our ultra-thin conversion (https://kolarivision.com/product/sony-a7-series-thin-filter-legacy-lens-upgrade/) measuring down to 0.2mm, the camera will still benefit a great deal from a modification service if you’re a Leica lens (or other legacy glass) enthusiast.
Which sound promising indeed! Cool 8)
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Disassembly of the Z7 at Kolarivision:
https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/
interesting read. thank you for sharing, Eddie!!
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I am not clear how/where I turn on or off the stabilization system. I can't seem to find how in the handbook? Where is it please.
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I am not clear how/where I turn on or off the stabilization system. I can't seem to find how in the handbook? Where is it please.
menu -> photo shooting menu -> vibration reduction
i assigned it to a slot on the i menu, so i iht i and tap the wiggly hand onscreen.
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menu -> photo shooting menu -> vibration reduction
i assigned it to a slot on the i menu, so i iht i and tap the wiggly hand onscreen.
Thanks. That did it. I was looking for something about axes or something. LOL.
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The reviews of the Nikon Z7 as regards image quality seem to finding the IQ a little less that what we find in the D850. This may well be true, but so far, for the kind of work I do, I can’t see a problem and I like to shoot at base ISO 64 and value blacks and shadows more than most.
Here is stacked image (like I am prone to) taken with the Nikon Z7 with the FTZ adaptor on it, using the APO El Nikkor 105 f/5.6, one of my favorites. This was taken on the Campo Actus-mini in vertical mode. In this case the FTZ adaptor adds a lot more extension to the Actus, but it does not matter. I have on order a mount that will be minimal, which will give me more focusing range than I can get with the D850. Yet, who knows when that will be released.
As mentioned, I can’t see anything that would make me nervous. It may well be there, but perhaps for astronomical or special situations, which I have few occasions to have.
For me, a feature I like in the Z7 is its size. I am already planning to build a little kit for road travel with one of my little Nanuck hard cases. My only question is how much I want to bring for the Z7 videos, like interviews and 4K 4-2-2 video exported to the Atomos Shogun Inferno. Maybe two cases.
This is a test shot, not retouched much. Sloppy, but just want to look for problems.
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Not sure what to comment on when you state that the image is sloppy done and you're looking for problems ;D
Looking forward to your usual standard and the in camera stacking evaluation 8)
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Not sure what to comment on when you state that the image is sloppy done and you're looking for problems ;D
Looking forward to your usual standard and the in camera stacking evaluation 8)
I was looking for deal-breakers for my work, before I pass the date where I have to send it back. However, things look good and there are pluses for me.
I might actually use the EVF, which i have never used on the D810 and the D850.
It will get me more room on the view-cameras because the Nikon D850 (in my case) requires a small extension ring to rotate from the horizontal to vertical and the Z7 does not.
Lighter, smaller, yet still highly functional.
I like the XQD and have never had a failure in my D850 of the card.
The image I posted was 44 layers and needed some retouching I did not do because I was just looking for how it handled black and shadows. There are other images, but no problem there either.
they may well find flaws with the sensor and banding, etc., but so far this does not seem to be something I will run into. Almost all my photos are exactly shot with perfect histograms for what I do. Anyway, I still have the D850 and have no interest in selling it. These are two different cameras. However, I also still have the D810, but have not sold it because it has way too many actuations.
And the wildcard for me is will I pack this little thing and take it on the road. I just might.
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However, I also still have the D810, but have not sold it because it has way too many actuations.
How many is "too many"? There could be interest in that 810. ;)
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....However, I also still have the D810, but have not sold it because it has way too many actuations.
i took the arrival of the Z7 as an opportunity to clean house, selling the D500, D810, X-E2, a couple Nikon 1 bodies, and couple each Nikon 1 and Fuji X lenses! it feels good to clean house and arrive at just three cameras: the iphone XS max, the Z7, and the D850.
surprisingly my 810 with many actuations yielded an excellent price. bodies depreciate more than lenses, but not terribly so in the first 3-5 years it seems.
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Birna;Look no further!....
3 Legged Thing has the worlds first L brackets for Z6/Z7.
I spoke with this company and their L-Plate will accommodate the FTZ adapter.
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UPDATE on the Nikon Z7 for my particular use.
I like the Nikon Z7, but like all things, using it for a while brings with it some realizations, which I want to comment on here.
I have the Nikon Z7, the FTZ adapter, and the 24-70 f/4 native lens. Please note that the kind of work that I do requires a lot of precision and great lenses.
Using the Nikon Z7 with its own 24-70 f/4 lens is fine for general snapshots and perhaps even some more semi-serious work. However, I find, while the 24-70 is sharp-ish, it is not sharp like the lenses I am used to (Otus, APO, etc.). I am sure it was not intended to be that sharp. It seems well-enough corrected IMO, but the sharpness is not quite what I require. This, of course, is disappointing, but I pretty-much knew this coming in. Of course, I hoped for a miracle. LOL.
On the other hand, using the FTZ adapter I have access to many APO lenses i have collected, including the set of Otus lenses plus the Otus-like 135 Zeiss that presaged the series. They work great as they always did!
I am hurting for lack of a proper L-Bracket and have had to use the Arca C1 Cube for vertical/profile shots, which means leaning it 90-degrees from horizontal, which works but is not what I like to use. So, I might as well use my D850 for which I have a great RSS L-Bracket.
Things I especially like about the Z7 are the EVF, which I find myself using more and more. With the D810 and D850, I never used the OVF, preferring to work on the back-LCD. But the Z7 EVF is really amazing and you can magnify it, which of course the older OVF cameras could not do.
So, I am keeping the Nikon Z7, waiting for an L-Bracket that will accommodate the FTZ adapter. However, and this is a big “however,” unless Nikon releases APO/Otus level lenses for the Nikon Z7, I will be using the Z7 with the FTZ adapter for most of my work.
For family photos, casual walk-around work, and perhaps for semi-serious work, I could use the Z7 with the native 24-70 f/4 lens. But, when I ask myself, I might just as well use the better lenses any time I do serious photography. They are just so much better.
You get the idea. The Z7 for not-so-sharp work with native lenses, but the Z7 + FTZ adapter for my regular work. And, to repeat, if I am mounting the huge Zeiss Otus lenses, I might just as well use the Nikon D840 for the added support.
However, I find that I will definitely be using the Z7 on my view camera, the Cambo Actus Mini. It is perfect there and when I get a Z7-Bayonet for the Actus, I will be able to get even more focus range from my exotic lenses, which I very much need.
In summary, I love the Z7, but without the FTZ adapter I am limited in what I can do with it. As Otus-level lenses come along native to the Z7, this will be much different. I would love an APO lens for this mirrorless camera!
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I have no intension of ever becoming a Z6/7 owner, but I do have an abiding interest in Nikon gear, and I wonder how long it will be before the "NEW" is dropped in discussion forums and it simply becomes the Nikon Z system or the Nikon mirrorless system. :)
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... I wonder how long it will be before the "NEW" is dropped in discussion forums and it simply becomes the Nikon Z system or the Nikon mirrorless system. :)
A matter of months, I'd guess. The Z system seems to gain wide acceptance by the users.
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A matter of months, I'd guess. The Z system seems to gain wide acceptance by the users.
Birna,
Any update on when you are getting yours? Michael's comments are always insightful, but his use cases are mostly different from mine.
I would love to see how it compares to DF in low light with older lenses (AI, Pre-ai etc.) and there are few who could match your abilities in evaluating those use cases.
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I'm promised my Z gear on the next allocation round by Nikon Nordic. Thus it'll arrive "soon" ... that's all I know at present. Obviously this time Nikon targetted alternative regions so we Nordic citizens got a minor share of the new production runs.
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The Z7 has more or less the same Focus shift shooting option as found in the D850 with the addition of a so-called Peaking stack image. With this feature active, the camera will employ focus peaking to create a black-and-white preview stack that
can be used to check focus after shooting. The major disadvantage of this feature is that one has to press a few buttons to see this preview, not a good idea if one wants to add additional shots for the stack in the same setup without disturbing it.
The S-line 35/1.8S has a multi-focusing system, which is claimed to deliver good performance over the whole focusing range. The added "Focus stacking for dummies" pictures at close focus using this feature were both taken at the F/1.8 maximum aperture, the stack was processed with Helicon Focus.
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Michael, having universal (L-)plates is mandatory when testing or switching camera gear on a frequent bases.
I have two for many years now which allows me to use, borrow or test nearly any camera or lens on my tri or monopods before the dedicated plates become available.
RRS has an universal L-Plate which can mount almost any camera:
http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/MC-L-Multi-Camera-L-Plate
And the Wimberly P5 universal plate goes wherever I go when I travel with camera gear (for cameras and lenses):
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/276977-REG/Wimberley_P_5_P5_Universal_Quick_Release.html?sts=pi
Both plates have the ability to centre the plate to the camera or lensfoot regardless of where the screw hole is located so should be able to stay clear of the FTZ adapter :)
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Michael, having universal (L-)plates is mandatory when testing or switching camera gear on a frequent bases.
I have two for many years now which allows me to use, borrow or test nearly any camera or lens on my tri or monopods before the dedicated plates become available.
RRS has an universal L-Plate which can mount almost any camera:
http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/MC-L-Multi-Camera-L-Plate
And the Wimberly P5 universal plate goes wherever I go when I travel with camera gear (for cameras and lenses):
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/276977-REG/Wimberley_P_5_P5_Universal_Quick_Release.html?sts=pi
Both plates have the ability to centre the plate to the camera or lensfoot regardless of where the screw hole is located so should be able to stay clear of the FTZ adapter :)
I hear you, of course. I have already ordered (and paid for) the forthcoming RRS L-Plate for the Z7. And I have several workarounds, as well. Right now I am using one plate on the FTZ and another for the camera. And I have a huge L-Plate from Novoflex and ultra-narrow plates.
I didn't know about the WImberly, but it looks great. Now, if it just had a flexible L-Plate to attach to it.
For my use, effectively the Z7 is a mirrorless DSLR because I need the FTZ adapter to get lenses that are superior to the native S-lenses, at least to the S-24-70. I have tired MANY small walk-around cameras like the Sony RX series, but there they sit on the shelf. I will use the Z7 with native lenses to shoot family and probably other photo tasks. I will see what I can get away with, but unfortunately the only one I have to impress is myself and a sharp-ish lens like the S-24070 Z7 series comes close to passing muster, but just falls short. My mind insists I go for that extran detail and I reach for the adapter and APO lenses, etc.
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On Friday I received the Z7, the FTZ, the 24-70 S and the 35 S. I had to wait until yesterday to use the camera because I was waiting for an XQD card to arrive by FedEx. This delay gave me the chance to actually go through much of the User Manual, which proved to be helpful.
Once the card was in the camera, I headed to the Mall to get a new battery for my iPhone.
While there, I look some pictures with the Z7 and the 35. I missed focus more than I thought I would, which could be a factor of not getting the settings right (especially all the focus options that are new and different); or it could be my bad technique trying to handhold this sensor-rich camera.
Whatever the case, here are three examples that at least show rough cuts of what the camera can do in my hands. More than three might constitute an abuse of any viewer’s time.
My general sense of the Z7 and the lenses is that it is a small but formidable little package. It is comfortable to hold and much lighter to carry. Plus it’s got a lot of horsepower under the hood, and the 35 has a lot of potential for me to embrace (haven't tried the 24-70). Finally I find it very attractive. I bought it for general use, and for travel and spontaneous out-the-door photography. I am not disappointed. Once I get the hang of it, it should suit my purposes very well.
I like it!
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The added "Focus stacking for dummies" pictures at close focus using this feature were both taken at the F/1.8 maximum aperture, the stack was processed with Helicon Focus.
Jérome of Lambique and Bob et Bobette... Good grief ! And I thought I was the only dinosaur left with some knowledge of those comics... :o
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It will be interesting to see whether Cosina/Voigtlander produce a Z-mount version of their 110mm APO Lanthar that is available in the Sony E-mount.
I suspect that there would be a lot of interest in such a Z-mount lens. ;D
UPDATE on the Nikon Z7 for my particular use.
I like the Nikon Z7, but like all things, using it for a while brings with it some realizations, which I want to comment on here.
.......................................................
.......................................................
I would love an APO lens for this mirrorless camera!
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It will be interesting to see whether Cosina/Voigtlander produce a Z-mount version of their 110mm APO Lanthar that is available in the Sony E-mount.
I suspect that their would be a lot of interest in such a Z-mount lens. ;D
Yes. I will have to use the FTZ adapter until one comes along. I can use the Z7 with the view cameras I have with no problem right now.
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Jérome of Lambique and Bob et Bobette... Good grief ! And I thought I was the only dinosaur left with some knowledge of those comics... :o
Oh no Jacques but we use different names for the characters this part of the globe. :)
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Jérome of Lambique and Bob et Bobette... Good grief ! And I thought I was the only dinosaur left with some knowledge of those comics... :o
No, you're not :)
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011JKE28U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This L-Bracket will work with the FTZ adapter. If you want the vertical element to fit closely to the left side of the camera, you may want to cut off the very far end of one of the stainless steel rods, which is easy to do and it fits snug. The rod stops the 1/4-20 screw from going to the edge as far as we want. Inexpensive too, relatively.
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I am finding this L-Bracket problem with the new Nikon Z7 a real hassle. I wonder if any of you have found a practical solution? Here is my problem.
My use of the Z7 is twofold. I want to do some work with the camera using its native S-lenses, like the S-24-70mm Zoom. To do this I require a L-Bracket that form-fits the Z7 and that can give me horizontal and vertical positions.
On the other hand, I want to use the many legacy lenses I have on hand. For that, of course, I need the FTZ adapter and for large lenses like the Otus 28mm APO lens (which is heavy) I want to make use of the tripod foot on the FTZ, but again, I need both horizontal and vertical positions.
I found an old L-Bracket that I put on the FTZ tripod foot and using this I can rotate to either position. But I’m not sure that I can use the FTZ adapter (with its L-Bracket) and also find an L-Bracket that I can attach to the Z7 at the same time.
Above all, I do not want to be taking either L-Bracket on and off the various mounts, as sooner or later I could strip one or the other.
If I can find a thin-enough L-Bracket to fit the Z7, all this might work out, but that is a lot of L-Brackets (and weight) when I use both the Z7 and the FTZ, each with their own L-Bracket.
So, I wonder what other folks are doing about this. Any ideas please?
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You might consider a camera rotator that would attach to either the body or FTZ foot. Here is one from RRS (but discontinued):
http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/search?keywords=CRD-87
But models from other makers are available:
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astrohutech-camera-rotator.html
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You might consider a camera rotator that would attach to either the body or FTZ foot. Here is one from RRS (but discontinued):
http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/search?keywords=CRD-87
But models from other makers are available:
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astrohutech-camera-rotator.html
That would probably be useful, but more weight to carry around, etc. I'm hoping I can fiddle something together, even it I have to modify the whole thing. Will soon know. Thanks.
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I would like to do the same thing - leave Arca Swiss type L brackets on both items all the time. Looks like we will have to wait and see what develops. In the meantime I am resigned to using tiny plates. I found this thread to be useful (see esp. the pix): https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4327908
I ordered a Sunway 39R like shown for my Z6. I already have some small sized "wildcard" plates with an L-edge on hand, with some that dating back over a decade to use on the FTZ.
Tom
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This Gitzo gadget might be a way of doing vertical shots while retaining rigidity: https://www.manfrotto.us/gitzo-right-angle-bracket
I think this can go on top of your existing tripod heads. You will need the round plate that goes in the hole (they also make columns that fit in too but as that would add a moment arm to your rig loosing rigidity). Similar widgets may be made by others, maybe Linhof?
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For the Sony I use split E to Leica M in combination with M to F or FD adapters and multiple E to M adapters.
One E to M adapter does AF, one does macro extension and the one from Novoflex can have a collar mount attached. Novoflex already announced their Z adapters which will either fit the current collar mounts or will come with a new one.
Here's their offering: https://www.novoflex.de/en/products-637/lens-adapters/adapter-collar-mounts/adapter-collar-mounts-products.html
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If anyone sees a Z mount to m42 helicoid released I’d like to hear about it.
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I tested a Z7 today at BIC Camera, Yurakucho, Tokyo. I had my Noct (AIS) in the bag, and the vendor let me try it with the FTZ adapter.
First impression is very good: Focus peaking and stabilization work well. I could focus reliably. No trouble with the EVF even when stopped down at F/8.
Given the resolution, the same rule applies as to the D8xx : the "safe" minimum speed, when shooting handheld without stabilizer, is 1/(twice the focal length in mm).
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I want:
- S-mount adapter (inner and outer mount WITH distance scale AND infinity stop)
- LTM 39 adapter WITH infinity stop
:o :o :o
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I want:
- S-mount adapter (inner and outer mount WITH distance scale AND infinity stop)
- LTM 39 adapter WITH infinity stop
:o :o :o
I'd give almost anything for the S>Z adapter myself. Not equally keen on the Leica thread, though, but that reflects more my choice of lenses over the years.
I shall get a few factory Z bayonets as soon as possible and experiment with some of my optical exotica.
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:o :o :o
would like to see how that pans out
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Here is a question:
I would like to find an adapter for the Nikon Z7 that will take Sony-E lenses. Are any available or is this one of those situations where it can't be done. I have the newish Voigtlander Macro lens in E-mount that I would like to use with the Z7.
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Brad Hill on the Z7 and latest Nikkor lenses, including the 180-400 f4E TC
https://photographingthewest.net/new-nikon-gear-with-brad-hill (https://photographingthewest.net/new-nikon-gear-with-brad-hill)
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Here is a question:
I would like to find an adapter for the Nikon Z7 that will take Sony-E lenses. Are any available or is this one of those situations where it can't be done. I have the newish Voigtlander Macro lens in E-mount that I would like to use with the Z7.
That will be very difficult; both Voigtlander APO Macro-Lanthar lenses (65/2 and 110/2.5) have floating elements, so it is advisable to mount the lens at the intended register distance. For Sony the register distance is 18mm, for Nikon Z it is 16mm. To mount the Voigtlanders on the Z7 18mm away from the sensor the lens needs to be positioned 2mm in front of the camera mount. An adapter of 2mm thickness should be needed, seems rather difficult if not impossible to make. Remounting the lens might be a better idea.
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That will be very difficult; both Voigtlander APO Macro-Lanthar lenses (65/2 and 110/2.5) have floating elements, so it is advisable to mount the lens at the intended register distance. For Sony the register distance is 18mm, for Nikon Z it is 16mm. To mount the Voigtlanders on the Z7 18mm away from the sensor the lens should thus be mounted 2mm in front of the camera mount. An adapter of 2mm thickness should be needed, seems rather difficult if not impossible to make. Remounting the lens might be a better idea.
I see. Thanks. Makes sense.
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Brad Hill on the Z7 and latest Nikkor lenses, including the 180-400 f4E TC
https://photographingthewest.net/new-nikon-gear-with-brad-hill (https://photographingthewest.net/new-nikon-gear-with-brad-hill)
they want to review the 500PF but write 300PF
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While the scramble to design for L-Brackets is on, I need one now. I have ordered one from RSS (which I may return), but in the meantime this one is working pretty well.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1056517-REG/promediagear_plx3_universal_l_bracket_3.html
I include a couple of quick snapshots. Note that the L-Bracket fits because the ¼-20 screw can move at right angles to the length of the bracket a certain amount. See the letter “A” which shows you the screw. Note that one of the two stainless steel rods bumps into it. Now, this is OK with me because I want to leave room for the remote (which is plugged in in the images) and extends quite a ways. However, if you want the vertical part of the bracket to fit snug, you would have to use a hacksaw to trim the rod I marked so it does not butt into the screw. I still may do that, but right now all is just fine. The L-Bracket is strong enough and I have the FTZ adapter installed.
However, if I want to use really heavy lenses (Otus 28mm APO) I may want to use the tripod foot of the FTZ adapter for added strength. I have a second (different brand) small L-Bracket that mounts on the tripod foot of the FTZ adapter, and they fit nicely side-by-side, yet there is no room between the two L-Brackets to mount either one an Arca-Swiss quick release clamp. Bummer.
This means that on the occasions I use heavy lenses, I will have to take off the L-Bracket from the Z7 and install the other L-Bracket on the FTZ foot. I don’t like it, but at least it is workable.
A lot of my work is done in portrait (vertical mode), so I need to be able to work back and forth quickly. I know... there are other methods and some were presented here.
This is just what I am using for the moment, for those interested.
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Michael, why don't you use the L-bracket on the FTZ adapter all the time for the work? Currently there should be no lens you can mount on Z7 wiithou FTZ...
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Michael, why don't you use the L-bracket on the FTZ adapter all the time for the work? Currently there should be no lens you can mount on Z7 wiithou FTZ...
I don't always want to use non-native lenses, so its apples and oranges. I don't want the FTZ on all the time. The L-Bracket is more stable on the camera, but it is pretty good on the FTZ as well. I need portrait and landscape mode on both and they can't be on at the same time, so there I am caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. I will also see what RRS comes up with. They may have a better solution.
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i'm still enjoying the Z7, although it's limitations relative to the D850 are definitely becoming clearer, and they primarily have to do with focus. i'd say most of my shots with the f/1.8 primes of moving subjects are out of focus. this (and EVFs) has always been my issue with mirrorless cameras, and i don't think nikon has solved it. still a fabulous camera for many many uses.
focus peaking at larger apertures seems unreliable, and in particular there is something about using the z7 + ftz + 19mm pc-e which is very awkward and easy to screw up. you don't want to hold the thing only by the camera, but since the lens shifts there isn't a great place to grab the FTZ, and most of the rest of the smooth part of the lens is focus ring. obviously this lens is often used on a tripod, but i have often used it handheld on the d850 with absolutely stellar results. i was hopeful that the evf of the Z7 would make it easier to use still, since you wouldn't have to look at the rear LCD to focus it. sadly not, it's just ergonomically very awkward.
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A Sun shade greatly adds to the comfort when handling the 19mm PC-E, even on Z7
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Regarding L-brackets etc. This 'Video' cage has some huge advantages re stability and interference, or lack of it ;)
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-cage-for-nikon-z6-nikon-z7-camera-2243.html (https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-cage-for-nikon-z6-nikon-z7-camera-2243.html)
Something similar could easily be connected also to the FTZ adapter or via a combination of both,,, Just a heads up for you all ;)
Looks cleaver and stable with the attachment to one ot the strap eyes. Similar to RRS.
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Markins has just released 2 types of L-plate for Z6/Z7:
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Markins has just released 2 types of L-plate for Z6/Z7:
Do you have a link? I would like to see how they handle the FTZ adapter with a camera attached in the photo.
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Does that "video" cage, as did the Df, put the the fun back into photography?
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Does that "video" cage, as did the Df, put the the fun back into photography?
Hard to see how that could be, as the caged camera is unlikely to provide a good grip for free-hand shooting. Pleased to be proved wrong though, as this is the first impression only.
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Regarding L-brackets etc. This 'Video' cage has some huge advantages re stability and interference, or lack of it ;)
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-cage-for-nikon-z6-nikon-z7-camera-2243.html (https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-cage-for-nikon-z6-nikon-z7-camera-2243.html)
Something similar could easily be connected also to the FTZ adapter or via a combination of both,,, Just a heads up for you all ;)
Looks cleaver and stable with the attachment to one ot the strap eyes. Similar to RRS.
Eric, I bought the Smallrig L-plate
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-l-bracket-for-sony-a7iii-a7m3-a7riii-a9-2122.html
for my Sony a7iii. It works well except not an easy fit for use of the Techart Pro so I took a small metal file to it and now it works fine. I just used a black magic marker to 'paint' the silver bare metal. Adds good height but is slightly heavy.
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Noone speaks about the Z6. I can imagine that a Z6:
- has better low ISO and better high ISO IQ than the D5
- is a neat and light carry always package with Novoflex MTZ and a Leica M mount lens or a ZENIT 1/35mm
- has a nice tonality comparable to the D600
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Z6 isn't publicly available -- yet. I have ordered it, though. Expect it to be useful mainly for the reasons listed by Frank.
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Z6 isn't publicly available -- yet. I have ordered it, though. Expect it to be useful mainly for the reasons listed by Frank.
what about adaptation of the non Aid glass to the Z series???
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Noone speaks about the Z6. I can imagine that a Z6:
- has better low ISO and better high ISO IQ than the D5
- is a neat and light carry always package with Novoflex MTZ and a Leica M mount lens or a ZENIT 1/35mm
- has a nice tonality comparable to the D600
Right, to me it seems the Z6 would make a better companion to the D850 than the Z7, if versatility was the aim.
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I guess silent shooting at a theatrical performance or in other silent low light areas is a good way to utilize the Z6. I still fo not like the ergonomics
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On the EVF:
It is the best I’ve tried out. Sony, Fujifilm, Leica...Nikon’s above them all.
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On the EVF:
It is the best I’ve tried out. Sony, Fujifilm, Leica...Nikon’s above them all.
The Z7 EVF shines in the natural colour look, some people even call it "OVF-like". But compared to the Sony A7RIII EVF it is much more prone to flicker in artificial lighting conditions, and is jerky, lags in 1:1 magnified mode (the Sony is fluid in 1:1). For manual focussing in 1:1 magnified mode, especially with the Sony auto-magnify option that the Z7 doesn't have, the A7RIII has imho the better EVF.
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I guess silent shooting at a theatrical performance or in other silent low light areas is a good way to utilize the Z6. I still fo not like the ergonomics
That´s the reason I have one on order. Still not sure about how the electronic but not global shutter will affect the moves of the dancers -my primary goal- or banding with stage lights. Usually they are not led but a new law is lurking in the near future, I´m afraid, to change them all.
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Personally I'm mainly interested in the optical performance of the new lenses. The 35mm being my primary lens - the new 35mm f/1.8 Z line looks very promising.
But I was wondering how the decision was made to start writing the lens type around the front element. I've had a Fuji X system for a few years where this is also done. And many other manufacturers do it. I used to do long exposures with ND filters on my Fuji 14mm and 16mm where the writing was visible on the final photo. I know that this can easily be corrected with a permanent marker pen.
My current Nikon lens lineup don't have any writing around the front element which I really appreciate.
Any thoughts on why Nikon R&D seems not to talk to each other?
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But I was wondering how the decision was made to start writing the lens type around the front element. I've had a Fuji X system for a few years where this is also done. And many other manufacturers do it. I used to do long exposures with ND filters on my Fuji 14mm and 16mm where the writing was visible on the final photo. I know that this can easily be corrected with a permanent marker pen.
My current Nikon lens lineup don't have any writing around the front element which I really appreciate.
Any thoughts on why Nikon R&D seems not to talk to each other?
Good point, Daniel.
I guess that it is easier and simpler to print or engrave the lens names on the retaining part of the front element which is flat. Also, there may be some promotional reasons, because the camera is often seen and pictured from the front.
Interestingly, or rather strangely in this respect, the industrial APO Nikkors, which were often used for the reproduction, have their names and serial numbers on the front, engraved and painted in white! My 240mm/f9.0 APO Nikkor bought in mint condition has the numbers and names are painted in black presumably by the originaly purchaser. I believe that it is to avoid unwanted reflection.
Nevertheless, I was a bit surprised that the letters reflected by the ND filter can be visible in the final images. Perhaps the DOF of the lenses of such short focal lengths would have contributed for the problem?
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Nikon did change the position of the engraving for some lenses to reduce the possibility of it showing in reflective subjects.
In early 55/3.5 micro lenses the name is engraved on a ring inside the filter. The very first versions with the preset aperture ring and 1:1 has the engraving just inside the filter ring where it is easily visible. Due to the short working distance of this lens, the engraving could be visible when photographing reflective subjects. In the following versions the engraving is recessed further back, about half way between the filter ring and front element, where it could be better shaded and less visible. Starting with the K/New Nikkor version, the engraving is moved to the side of the barrel outside the filter ring which largely eliminates the possibility of reflections showing in the picture. Similarly, with the 105/4 bellows, early lenses have the engraving inside the filter facing forward, which were later moved to the side of the barrel.
Steering back to topic, none of the current Z lenses are extremely wide or close focusing, so the front facing lettering is unlikely to to be reflected in the picture. I will assume any Z macro lenses won't have writing at the front ...
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At last, today I got the long awaited message from Nikon UK: your pre-ordered Z7 kit is allocated and will be sent ASAP. I think I'll get the basic Z7/24-70/FTZ kit now. Other Z items, amongst these the Z6, hopefully will follow soon. The super-Noct 58/0.95 is unlikely to materialise this year, so have to hope for the early spring 2019 perhaps. That combo would be great for the NG Scotland gathering (May '19?).
According to my contact with Nikon Nordic, allocations to the Scandinavian region have been meagre and demand outstrips available cameras by an order of magnitude (at least). The Sendai factory is running flat out and probably will not be able to deal with the backlog orders for some time yet.
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It appears that Nikon changed the regional allocation for the Z7 as compared to the D850.
Here in the US the Z7 basic kit is in stock at all big distributors like B&H, Adorama or Amazon!
Nevertheless the D850 still carries a leadtime of typically 2-4 weeks...
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Maybe the Z7 is easier to build, so the production rate is higher?
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Not sure how many D850 are assembled? For the Z7 I recall a rate of 20'000 / month with a much higher automization percentage than the D850.
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Didn’t Nikon slow down production of 850 in favour of the Z’ers?
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It appears that Nikon changed the regional allocation for the Z7 as compared to the D850.
Here in the US the Z7 basic kit is in stock at all big distributors like B&H, Adorama or Amazon!
I don't it's a distribution issue but simply not that much demand for the Z7 as it is now. There are only two native lenses available as of now, and it'll take a couple of years before you can buy a reasonably all-around kit without using adapter. I think the demand will pick up at that point.
Nevertheless the D850 still carries a leadtime of typically 2-4 weeks...
If you look up on Nikon USA's site
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/dslr-cameras/1585/d850.html#Product-WhereToBuy
ten stores currently list the D850 "in stock".
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D850 is in stock at last in my country. It was listed as 'on back order' until recently.
My guess is that Nikon builds up stock of the Z6 these days. Clearly the demand of their cameras still outstrip production. Sendai is but a quite small industrial plant. I was actually amazed how small the facility was when I visited it.
My Nikon contact told me they could sell many times more cameras than currently allotted to the Scandinavian market.
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A question on non-CPU lenses? There is sketchy info on the Net (and Z7 pdf Manuals) concerning the use and EXIf data. It appears that the value entered does tell IBIS(VR) the focal length but some are saying the EXIF does not show the values input to the menu. Having used many Ai,Ais lenses on the DF and others, that does not make since. I also use many adapted lenses on Sony a7rii and a7iii. When using dumb adapters there is no EXIF but using Techart pro I get the exif set up on the Techart Pro App. and aperture set on the camera (f2 for Techart0. I am primarily interested in Nikon non-CPU and Leica M mount lenses.
Can anyone clarify :)
Cheers,
Tom
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Tom we will have to wait till Birna picks up her Z to get the definitive answer.
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Birna might have difficulty to find a non-CPU'ed lens...
Lenses without CPU are marked as "0.0 mm f/0.0", but the EXIF property for focal length is properly filled with the focal length from the non-CPU lens data. Next to that, the exposure data always shows the maximum aperture of the (non-CPU) lens also from the non-CPU lens data.
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Nikon has traditionally hidden away all the required data in unorthodox places, if one mounts a non-CPU lens and enter it from the menu list. Thus no wonder many programs read nonsensical information such as 0.0mm f/0 afterwards from the EXIF. I will, of course, mine the Z EXIF for useful information.
Birna might have difficulty to find a non-CPU'ed lens...
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No worries -- I do keep a few pre-AI non-CPU-modified lenses around for testing purposes :D
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My understanding (which might be wrong) is that the EXIF data includes the CPU data entered into the camera, i.e. the focal length and maximum aperture. Since the adapter has no way of sensing how far the aperture ring is turned, it cannot pass on the stopped down shooting aperture to the camera, so that will be missing from EXIF data.
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My understanding (which might be wrong) is that the EXIF data includes the CPU data entered into the camera, i.e. the focal length and maximum aperture. Since the adapter has no way of sensing how far the aperture ring is turned, it cannot pass on the stopped down shooting aperture to the camera, so that will be missing from EXIF data.
Your understanding is correct, I actually can see both focal length and maximum aperture in the metadata.
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My understanding (which might be wrong) is that the EXIF data includes the CPU data entered into the camera, i.e. the focal length and maximum aperture. Since the adapter has no way of sensing how far the aperture ring is turned, it cannot pass on the stopped down shooting aperture to the camera, so that will be missing from EXIF data.
Leica solved and Patented this by having a light meter on the front, outside of the Leica M, that measures the light directly and compares it with the light entering through the lens and on to the internal light meter, then having the lens data, focal length and max aperture, entered manually or reading the 'engraved' 6-bit lens code, the camera software can make an educated guess to what aperture value the lens is stopped down too. Works quite well actually in real life shooting ;)
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My understanding (which might be wrong) is that the EXIF data includes the CPU data entered into the camera, i.e. the focal length and maximum aperture. Since the adapter has no way of sensing how far the aperture ring is turned, it cannot pass on the stopped down shooting aperture to the camera, so that will be missing from EXIF data.
Thanks All. Roland, that is sort of what I'm expecting. There is a thread on FM with folk playing with LM to Z adapters:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/11
Eventually more folk will have to hand and may learn more. There appear to be some 'tricks' not covered in the Manuals :)
Cheers to everyone
Tom
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Thanks All. Roland, that is sort of what I'm expecting. There is a thread on FM with folk playing with LM to Z adapters:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075/11
Eventually more folk will have to hand and may learn more. There appear to be some 'tricks' not covered in the Manuals :)
Cheers to everyone
Tom
The EVF of the Z series works very well with the old MF lenses, very easy for precise focussing, but the handling of the lenses in combination with the adapter remains IMHO a PITA. I would have been perfectly happy with an F-mount body with an integrated EVF.
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Hi Eddie, Nikon has filed a few patents for Hybrid VF over the past few years, sort of thought the new bodies might have. I am interested in how well Nikon has implemented Focus Peaking. With my Sony bodies it is really only good for 'Ballpark" and I have to use magnification to get as sharp as I want. Sounds as if Nikon may be better :) . Also seems there may be some lag in magnification on the Z bodies but seems dependent on other settings.
I am not too interested in the Z7 , at the price, but very interested in the Z6.
Cheers,
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IMHO it's very subjective how good this focus peaking works, there are several settings to fine tune but it really comes down to what would you use it for, what type of photography, scene, light contrast, slow fast etc.
Fo me the difference between EVF of Z7 and a Zacuto finder in live view on the D850 is similar,,, for slow paced work like using a PC-E nikkor for architecture.
I would not recommend Z7 for fast paced work with f1.2 or f/1.4 manual focus as a substitute for a D850.
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I wanted to take a picture of my microphone. I was curious how well the Z7/35S combo would capture the texture of the velvet sleeve the microphone wears when not in use. I took a picture and the result was photo number 1.
I didn’t understand why the camera rendered the scene so bizarrely. I took a couple of more snaps and the issue became almost totally washed out by this interference. See photo number 2. (While concerned at the time by what was causing this problem, I was somewhat attracted to this second image for its outré strangeness)
Anyway, after turning off the camera, taking out the battery ( etc.) and testing it by using it satisfactorily in other rooms, I figured that there was some sort of electronic interference because of all the electronica in my man cave. I put the computer to sleep, turned off the lamp on my desk, but the problem persisted. Finally, I turned off the printer and the problem went away. While I hardwire the printer to the computer, when I set it up I must have left the wifi connection active and it clearly fouls up the Z7.
So, I took picture number 3 and am amazed how well it looks in a room with only northern light on a rainy, cloudy day. It was taken at iso 3200; 1/13th of a second, f/4 and handheld. f/4 was chosen to get some depth of field, The focus is on the bottom flap of the sleeve. I like the sharpness, color and bokeh, and the pronounced blown highlights kinda work for me.
Most importantly, it captured the velvet texture to my satisfaction!
In the pursuit of some sort of standardization, all photos are undefiled by post production except to convert the raw files to jpegs using Capture NX-D.
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Reminds me why I always use cables not wireless in my office. Something to ponder while UPS shuttles my Z package all over Europe. Maybe it ends up at the correct address in the not too distant future??
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Birna, how right you are. And, UPS is not always so kind to packages that come my way.
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Tom Hook: I put my D500 & D850 to airplane mode to avoid interference but I never have seen such a stark interference. How very intersting.
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I wanted to take a picture of my microphone. I was curious how well the Z7/35S combo would capture the texture of the velvet sleeve the microphone wears when not in use. I took a picture and the result was photo number 1.
I didn’t understand why the camera rendered the scene so bizarrely. I took a couple of more snaps and the issue became almost totally washed out by this interference. See photo number 2. (While concerned at the time by what was causing this problem, I was somewhat attracted to this second image for its outré strangeness)
Anyway, after turning off the camera, taking out the battery ( etc.) and testing it by using it satisfactorily in other rooms, I figured that there was some sort of electronic interference because of all the electronica in my man cave. I put the computer to sleep, turned off the lamp on my desk, but the problem persisted. Finally, I turned off the printer and the problem went away. While I hardwire the printer to the computer, when I set it up I must have left the wifi connection active and it clearly fouls up the Z7.
So, I took picture number 3 and am amazed how well it looks in a room with only northern light on a rainy, cloudy day. It was taken at iso 3200; 1/13th of a second, f/4 and handheld. f/4 was chosen to get some depth of field, The focus is on the bottom flap of the sleeve. I like the sharpness, color and bokeh, and the pronounced blown highlights kinda work for me.
Most importantly, it captured the velvet texture to my satisfaction!
In the pursuit of some sort of standardization, all photos are undefiled by post production except to convert the raw files to jpegs using Capture NX-D.
From the trail from the blue light it looks like shutter stayed open for an extended time. It is very odd that the printer wifi would affect how long shutter stayed open. Is there an IR connection?
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Tom Hook: I put my D500 & D850 to airplane mode to avoid interference but I never have seen such a stark interference. How very intersting.
Frank, airplane mode is a good idea, thanks.
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From the trail from the blue light it looks like shutter stayed open for an extended time. It is very odd that the printer wifi would affect how long shutter stayed open. Is there an IR connection?
According to the exif data of the first image, the shutter speed was 2.5sec. at ISO200.
I would suspect that Tom moved the camera thinking that the exposure had been completed while the shutter was still open.
The shutter speed of the second image is as long as 6sec., again, according to the remaining exif data, which would well explain why the image is blurry and overexposed.
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From the trail from the blue light it looks like shutter stayed open for an extended time. It is very odd that the printer wifi would affect how long shutter stayed open. Is there an IR connection?
Jack, no IR connection. Why does the trail suggest extended time when the camera was stationary?
I am downstairs but will check the exif later to see if the shutter stayed open inordinately long and will modify this post accordingly. I seem to remember that the blurry photos had an iso of 200 which demands to some degree slower shutter speed.
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According to the exif data of the first image, the shutter speed was 2.5sec. at ISO200.
I would suspect that Tom moved the camera thinking that the exposure had been completed while the shutter was still open.
The shutter speed of the second image is as long as 6sec., again, according to the remaining exif data, which would well explain why the image is blurry and overexposed.
Hi Akira, being a luddite of sorts, I don't know how to access the exif. Our messages crossed while I was writing Jack and my answer to him inadvertently supports your post. Question I have: why did the shutter speed fluctuate so dramatically? I did have it in silent mode which can be a cause of a prolonged depression of the shutter because I simply don't know any better!
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Hi Akira, being a luddite of sorts, I don't know how to access the exif. Our messages crossed while I was writing Jack and my answer to him inadvertently supports your post. Question I have: why did the shutter speed fluctuate so dramatically? I did have it in silent mode which can be a cause of a prolonged depression of the shutter because I simply don't know any better!
Tom, your room doesn't appear to be of a Luddite to me. :D
Anyway, I downloaded the images you post by clicking the file names shown under respective pictures, and checked out their properties. You should have the original files, so you can check out the exif directly from them. For some reason, the exif data for the first and the second images were still there.
I'm afraid I'm not sure what caused the shutter speed fluctuation. By "silent mode", you mean the shutter was set to the full electronic? If so, I would suspect it would be the firmware glitch, which should be addressed by the next firmware update.
Hope you will be able to enjoy your new combo without problem!
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Akira, knowing you know about such things, that is a condenser mike, which is somewhat old school if not actually luddite-ish. I think Frank's suggestion of airplane mode seems a good one. I don't use wifi on my camera so regarding that technology, "get thee behind me Satan!"
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Akira, knowing you know about such things, that is a condenser mike, which is somewhat old school if not actually luddite-ish. I think Frank's suggestion of airplane mode seems a good one. I don't use wifi on my camera so regarding that technology, "get thee behind me Satan!"
Tom, as you would know, the condenser mikes, even the vintage ones, are still going strong in the most modernized recording studios!
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Akira, you are right on the money. Love my condenser mikes. 8)
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I have a hard time believing interference had anything to do with the change in shutter speed. The camera was set to Aperture Priority. My guess is that for whatever reason the camera choose a long exposure based off the black printer for images 1 & 2. For image 3 the camera decided on shorter shutter speed based on the lighter areas of the scene above the printer.
I don't know how the Z cameras make metering decision's, but the older Nikon DSLR's can make pretty drastic metering changes within the same scene solely based on where the focus point is located, I'm speaking to matrix metering mode.
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yes, the area around the focus area is weighted heighly
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I have a hard time believing interference had anything to do with the change in shutter speed. The camera was set to Aperture Priority. My guess is that for whatever reason the camera choose a long exposure based off the black printer for images 1 & 2. For image 3 the camera decided on shorter shutter speed based on the lighter areas of the scene above the printer.
I don't know how the Z cameras make metering decision's, but the older Nikon DSLR's can make pretty drastic metering changes within the same scene solely based on where the focus point is located, I'm speaking to matrix metering mode.
The only things I can verify are that there was interference from the printer, that each picture I took was focused on the same place and that once the interference disappeared, the camera could then take a "normal" picture.
My question is, did the interference block the ability of the camera to acquire focus and thereby cause confusion creating the erratic conditions including the lengthening shutter speeds? I will say the second picture was probably caused by my thinking the picture was finished being taken when it wasn't, causing me to move the camera prematurely. Silent mode was something I was trying for the first time that day and it's behavior initially flummoxed me.
Sorry for my inarticulate responses, but I simply do not understand the technical aspects of these cameras as well as some of the rest of you, which results in a lack of clarity. :-\
Thanks for commenting.
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The only things I can verify are that there was interference from the printer, that each picture I took was focused on the same place and that once the interference disappeared, the camera could then take a "normal" picture.
My question is, did the interference block the ability of the camera to acquire focus and thereby cause confusion creating the erratic conditions including the lengthening shutter speeds? I will say the second picture was probably caused by my thinking the picture was finished being taken when it wasn't, causing me to move the camera prematurely. Silent mode was something I was trying for the first time that day and it's behavior initially flummoxed me.
Sorry for my inarticulate responses, but I simply do not understand the technical aspects of these cameras as well as some of the rest of you, which results in a lack of clarity. :-\
Thanks for commenting.
It seems putting the camera on a tripod with the same scene and turning your printer wifi settings back on for some tests could quickly sort out whether it played a role or not. I'd be very surprised if it in fact had any influence.
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It seems putting the camera on a tripod with the same scene and turning your printer wifi settings back on for some tests could quickly sort out whether it played a role or not. I'd be very surprised if it in fact had any influence.
I can't imagine that creating the wifi interference between my camera and the printer a second time would be good for the Z7 (or the printer for that matter). When it happened the first time, it upset me because I thought the camera was damaged. I don't care enough to further explore and clarify the whys and wherefores of this electronic dissonant moment. My curiosity is satisfied.
Yikes!!
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Ok.
It just seems to me that wifi interference making a camera change its exposure is a rather serious claim. A claim that unless it is reproduced in a more controlled environment which removes the possibility of operator error, I don't think should be taken to seriously.
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Ok.
It just seems to me that wifi interference making a camera change its exposure is a rather serious claim. A claim that unless it is reproduced in a more controlled environment which removes the possibility of operator error, I don't think should be taken to seriously.
Charlie,
I've resolved the issue to my satisfaction. That there exists the possibility of operator error, I will gladly stipulate. That my conclusions cannot be taken seriously unless more rigorous investigation is done, I will also stipulate. If need be, let's agree to disagree on this, shall we?
Cheers,
Tom
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Akira, you are right on the money. Love my condenser mikes. 8)
My preferred one is still the (condenser) Neumann U87 Ai :)
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My preferred one is still the (condenser) Neumann U87 Ai :)
Christian, are you recording engineer?
(Sorry to keep straying!)
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My dream Z7 has a pair of Neumann KM-184 in DIN mount (90°, 25cm base). Invisible of course.
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All this talk of Neumann microphones makes me feel like a piker. 15-20 years ago I bought a pair of Shure KSM32's for recording conversations at home. Because of the prices one pays for really high end microphones (such as Neumanns), I don't want to even hear them because I don't want to know what I'm missing! Audio envy anyone?
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the Neumanns need 48V phantom feed they cannot get from the camera
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Christian, are you recording engineer?
(Sorry to keep straying!)
Not at all, but have always been passionated by sound engineering. ;)
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My dream Z7 has a pair of Neumann KM-184 in DIN mount (90%, 25cm base). Invisible of course.
That's a real luxury!
Not at all, but have always been passionated by sound engineering. ;)
Nice to know that. Thank you!
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Here is the website link that shows how the L-Brackets for both the Z6/Z7 body + FTZ are mounted:
https://www.photoproshop.com/Camera-Accessories/Camera-L-Brackets/Nikon/Markins-L-Bracket-Nikon-FTZ.html
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That's a very well designed L plate for the FTZ adapter!
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That's a very well designed L plate for the FTZ adapter!
Apparently so. As i already ordered the Markins L-bracket for Z6/7, I might just as well order the FTZ bracket. They seem to be designed to be used together.
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thats one of the better korean brands. i see them at cp+ occasionally :o :o :o
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A simple question to bolster my understanding. I am mounting an AF f28/D on the FTZ adapter on a Z6.
* I have to lock the aperture fully stopped down, yes?
* no autofocus, but do get focus peaking
I dug through several long threads, but i think that is my take away?
Thanks,
Rob.
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Yes, when using an AF lens with contacts then camera can control the aperture.
You can check.....if you are in A-mode and change aperture and look through front lens you can see the aperture changing when you turn the wheel.
It happens "real-time" and not just during exposure like on a normal F-body.
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With my AF 85/1.4 D body sets aperture instant down to 5.6 and the last steps down to 16 it will do like an F-body (stop down during exposure).
But you need to set the aperture stopped down so camera can control the aperture.
If I don't do it a message is shown on the screen that I should lock the aperture to the max. aperture no. (16 in this case).
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The 'FEE' error message sometimes pops up even when the aperture of the host lens is set to the minimum. This can occur in particular for well-used lenses which may not completely engage and press down the tab on the FTZ due to wear. The solution is simple, use a small toothpick or similar and push down the sensor tab of the FTZ. Or even better, lock the tab permanently by inserting a tiny screw in the tab slot, then secure with a drop of glue or nail polish. All my FTZ adapters (4 at present) are modified in this manner.
Apart from avoiding the annoying error message, one now has the opportunity to see the depth of field and bokeh at apertures from f/5.6 to the maximum of the lens, for example, f/2 or f/1.2 before pushing the shutter release.
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This is all it takes to solve the FEE issue .... a tiny screw, secured by a drop of nail polish.
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Oh Birna! Could a more elegant solution not be found? ;)
A little epoxy perhaps? Still reversible and with the potential to be made invisible with a little paint? ;D
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One has to use the remedies nearest at hand. I got bags of genuine Nikon stock screws from my friendly Nikon tech, and nail polish is always at the standby these days :)
My approach works reliably. That is what matters to me.
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Wonders of the Z system.
Z6, 50mm 1.8 @1.8, 8000 iso, 1/25th handheld with ibis on. Piece of cake.
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Because of the big impact the card type and speed has on the Z9 buffer, I tried with the z6 out of curiosity. I only had two cards at hand today, same 64gb capacity, both sony xqd G, read 440mb/s write 400mb/s. Exact same card.
On h*, raw 14 bit the results were
Z61, card1: 55 shots
Z62, card2: 35 shots
Kind of weird...I switched cards and the results were
Z61, card2: 34 shots
Z62, card1: 55 shots
I was worried about a lesser camera but the difference is the card performance. They both come from kits, already in the camera box so I mostly reject the possibility of a fake card.
I have heard of sample variation on lenses but not on memory cards, and not by this huge margin.
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Because of the big impact the card type and speed has on the Z9 buffer, I tried with the z6 out of curiosity. I only had two cards at hand today, same 64gb capacity, both sony xqd G, read 440mb/s write 400mb/s. Exact same card.
On h*, raw 14 bit the results were
Z61, card1: 55 shots
Z62, card2: 35 shots
Kind of weird...I switched cards and the results were
Z61, card2: 34 shots
Z62, card1: 55 shots
I was worried about a lesser camera but the difference is the card performance. They both come from kits, already in the camera box so I mostly reject the possibility of a fake card.
I have heard of sample variation on lenses but not on memory cards, and not by this huge margin.
Have you tried contacting Sony about it? It seems like a faulty card.
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They are old cards. Never fail me and I have never fill the buffer but today for the test, so most likely no but if ultimate performance is your trait, be aware.
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Have you tried contacting Sony about it? It seems like a faulty card.
If the lower number meets the specification, then the card is not faulty. One would think that semiconductors would all be the same, however, they are actually a bit like cookies. Fabrication processes while tightly controlled are still not perfect and some chips from the same wafer and batch come out with different characteristics. Some are faster, some slower, some are more power hungry, some have defects. The resulting chips are "binned" - meaning separated by characteristics, not thrown into a trash bin - and are used in different products at different price points. Ones which have defects can often be partially used as a lower capacity chip by fusing off the non-functional areas.
Now, sometimes, there are more good chips than planned, and there is less demand for the premium chips than there is for lower performance chips so manufacturers will sell the top bin product in a lower bin product. While I have no idea about this particular situation, it would not be unusual for something like that to have happened here.
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Because of the big impact the card type and speed has on the Z9 buffer, I tried with the z6 out of curiosity. I only had two cards at hand today, same 64gb capacity, both sony xqd G, read 440mb/s write 400mb/s. Exact same card.
On h*, raw 14 bit the results were
Z61, card1: 55 shots
Z62, card2: 35 shots
Kind of weird...I switched cards and the results were
Z61, card2: 34 shots
Z62, card1: 55 shots
I was worried about a lesser camera but the difference is the card performance. They both come from kits, already in the camera box so I mostly reject the possibility of a fake card.
I have heard of sample variation on lenses but not on memory cards, and not by this huge margin.
I’ve recently bought a second Sony G 64GB XQD card which was faster than the “same” card from 2018, bought at the same trusted shop locally. With D500 I went from the low 40 to mid fifty with RAW 14bit +JPG and with the Z6 from 25 to around 35.
The cards have different labels and model numbers, the one on the left is the older QD-G64E and the newer one is QD-G64F which was produced last August.
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I have heard of sample variation on lenses but not on memory cards, and not by this huge margin.
Sorry if technology has moved on, but I've heard several,people (inc Birna I think) warn that the life and usable areas of memory cards is finite.
I found this to my cost with an SD card in a phone where the entire card became corrupted when I tried to write a huge file to it. I realise this was discussed when SSDs became more popular though, and isn't believed to be an issue with them, so my suggestion may be out of date.
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Those are some variables: card production finesse, date of production differences, finite life, etc... thank you all for the information.
Just one more point of data, both of the cards I tried have the same labels in the front.
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On the rear you should find the model number of the card, are they the same?
Here’s a snapshot with the iPhone 13 Pro using the new macro lens of the latest QD-G64F iteration.
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Yes, they are both QD-G64E