Best Micro-Nikkor for film digitizing in the 1:1 to 3:1 range, using a D850?

[Opened Mind]

Hello,

Preface:

I am currently doing my film digitization with a D850, a PB-6 Bellows and film holder, and for a lens, a lens designed specifically for duping film, the Rodenstock APO-Rodagon D 75mm f/4.

The light source is a diffused 5600˚K PRL Lighting Lustra L50 LED array (unlike cheap LED arrays, the L50 is a cine grade light and has both excellent color spectrum and brightness). I have the entire rig mounted on a Really Right Stuff CB-18 Camera Bar which in turn is mounted on my most solid tripod and head combination, an old Gitzo 410 C with a Foba ASMIA head. I focus using live view at 1:1.

I create custom profiles for my cameras using an X-rite ColorChecker Digital SG target and BasICColor Input 5 software.

I have found that I get the best, most film like results by bracketing my exposures (-1, 0, +1)  and, when processing the NEFs in Lightroom CC Classic, using Timothy Armes ENFUSE Lightroom plug-in. It is counter-intuitive (to me at least) but by bracketing and use of the ENFUSE plug-in does a great job of reducing the both the inherent contrast, tone curve, and grainy appearance of duped or digitized film.

I ask about the 3:1 range as I sometimes need greater resolution than a single D850 frame provides so I increase the magnification ratio by focusing closer and use the x/y movements of the PB-6 film stage to photograph the film in overlapping quadrants. This yields an image that is roughly (I don't have an image open on the computer right now so the exact numbers are not at hand) in the 80-100mp range. 

The problem is that with this lens at that magnification I am working at the physical limitations of the bellows unit. I know there is an extension rail for the PB-6 ( the PB-6E) but it is super-expensive and will make my setup much larger.   

The question (finally):

Do any of shorter focal length F- mount Micro-Nikkors yield equivalent performance to the APO-Rodagon D 75mm f/4?

[Jack Dahlgren]

Why not just get another PB6 and mount both rails on a base or bench? This will give you double the travel - though you may need minor surgery on the bellows to extend them. No need for this to be on a tripod at all. Set it on a sturdy table.

When I look back at old slides I feel I’m getting as much out of them that is useful with just a 55mm nikkor. I was never satisfied with the quality of 35mm film even back then, so at a certain point you may be working harder than you need to for very small or even no practical increase in quality. But that is for you and your testing to determine. I just offer my experience.

[Frank Fremerey]

For best results use natural light.

[pluton]

For best results use natural light.

I haven't tried 'natural', ie sunlight or daylight, but lately I've been using tungsten plus AutoWB plus Auto Exposure set at minus 1.66 stops on the camera(D800E). Allows this somewhat dreary work to be accomplished at night.

[benveniste]

Do any of shorter focal length F- mount Micro-Nikkors yield equivalent performance to the APO-Rodagon D 75mm f/4?

My 60mm f/2.8D does reasonably well at 2:1 in forward orientation.  For 2:1 to 3:1, I would suggest trying a Schneider 28 mm f/4 Componon, and staying with your Rodagon for 1:1 to 2:1.

[Frank Fremerey]

I haven't tried 'natural', ie sunlight or daylight, but lately I've been using tungsten plus AutoWB plus Auto Exposure set at minus 1.66 stops on the camera(D800E). Allows this somewhat dreary work to be accomplished at night.

In cases where natural light is not a option I use "full spectrum" artificial light sources, converter bulbs with 5 or six overlapping bands. Problem with these is that there is a slight color change following the grid frequency. I did not test LED yet. But: If I look at results from my old color slides and I put my PB4 with some old 55 Micro Nikkor on a tripod on an overcast day. I get great results with all colors finely reproduced. The D850 is though more than most 135 film does deliver. She outresolves the film grain which is clearly visible in all of its beauty.

Good luck with your archiving.

Frank

It seems LED has gained in quality over the years. Here is from an advertizing:

[pluton]

But: If I look at results from my old color slides and I put my PB4 with some old 55 Micro Nikkor on a tripod on an overcast day. I get great results with all colors finely reproduced.

Ha Ha...I have to wait too long for overcast days in Los Angeles!

Regarding LEDs:  I'd be curious about the so-called 'Remote Phosphor" type of LEDs.  They are in use for film and TV (and some studio still) lighting for a few years now.  They are advertised as not having the color instability over time as with the LEDs with filtration incorporated into the emitters.  The LEDs are permitted to remain their native bright bluish color, and a separate color correction panel, which is replaceable) is held the front of the luminaire.
How full is the spectrum?  Can it compete with natural full spectrum light?  I don't know.
Here is the info page of one of the manufacturers:
https://www.cineolighting.com/cineo-lighting-technology/

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

Nichia makes white LEDS with three peaks leading to nearly 100% light quality. Measured some for a friend and was amazed
what my spectrometer showed me!!

[richardHaw]

http://richardhaw.com/2018/05/02/repair-micro-nikkor-p-c-55mm-f-3-5/

just got this out

coined as the worst in 1:1 amongst the 55/3.5 but I really can't see much difference with my D800 when I had it. maybe because I am always shooting at f/8

[Erik Lund]

Nichia makes white LEDS with three peaks leading to nearly 100% light quality. Measured some for a friend and was amazed
what my spectrometer showed me!!

Thanks!
You should share the data and type Klaus

[Seapy]

Thanks!
You should share the data and type Klaus

I don't know if this is the specific LED Klaus was referring to but it *seems* to fit the bill...  pp. 12 has the crucial spectrum chart.

http://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/products/led_spec/NFCWL036B-V3-E(5145)Rs030.pdf

I do have a local contact who I will call, to see if they can source it or something similar. 

This LED seems to be on a small PCB which would make it easier to work with rather than a bare LED.  It would need control circuit to drive it of course.

Several of these would provide brilliant lighting for photography, I would have thought.

[benveniste]

Several of these would provide brilliant lighting for photography, I would have thought.

Here's the spectral power distribution for that LED, and one published for a self-proclaimed "High CRI" Led product.  As you can see, both the High CRI light and Daylight show a smoother curve.  "Spikey" light is what makes shooting under standard fluorescent lights so problematic, and so it is with many consumer LED lights as well.  I would guess that the Nichia has a CRI in the 80-85
range.

[Seapy]

We are deviating from the original topic here, nor does it fit well under the 'Lens Talk' category.

I had wanted to start a new topic about LED lighting spectrum, I have obtained a prism to try to analyse the light spectrum from these various LED light sources but have yet to find a way to mount it on a camera.  This is an important, vital? aspect of indoor photography, flash isn't an ideal lighting medium and modelling can be a challenge,  LED's seem to be ideal, with added advantage of being small, low power consumption and cool, but obtaining LED lamps's with a reasonably complete spectrum isn't easy.

Does this Nichia Ultra-High CRI White LED fit the bill?

http://www.nichia.co.jp/en/product/led_product_data.html?type=%27NF2W757G-F1%20(Rfa00,Rfc00)%27

Please can somebody who knows, point me to an ideal LED which is good for indoors 'daylight' spectrum photography, preferably with COB, (Chip on Board).

[Øivind Tøien]

The spectral data looks fairly good, but the LED chip would require reflow soldering and outputs only 23 lumen, so one would likely need a number of them. (In comparison my Nitrider bike light with a single LED provides 900 lumen in boost mode, and 200 lumen on the lowest setting with freshly charged battery - in the latter mode it will run for >6h on the single internal 14650 cell. It can be pretty blinding though at short distances even at the low setting.) 

In the film days I duplicated quite a few slides using my 55mm f/3.5 with a tube and a partially home made slide holder with a thin plastic diffuser (milky transparency) lighted by my Nikon SB-24 flash held at about 10cm distance behind the diffuser. The duplicating film required filtering, which was fine tuned from the supplied starting data supplied for the film batch. I also tried it with regular film, and while colors without filtering were pretty good, it became too contrasty, and color casts in the original would be exaggerated. I had to swap in another light source (held it up to a regular light bulb) to focus.

[Oskar O]

I tried a Mitutoyo Plan Apo 5x microscope objective for this purpose, with a 150 mm tube lens to get a magnification of 4x. Worked like a charm, very neatly rendered grain, but film flatness (and rig orthogonality) is a challenge. 2x to 3x is interesting, there is another Apo-Rodagon D designed for 2x, but I haven't tried it. Something worth looking into would be an El-Nikkor 50 or equivalent Apo-Componon HM reversed; the shorter focal length would solve your bellows draw problem.