The Mirrorless Nikon D850

[fish_shooter]

The behind the lens filter arrangement seems like the coolest new capability assuming that it could be used for other types of photography (e.g., UV, IR, etc. during the day). It would have probably added to the cost to remove the now not needed D850 parts - VF, AF, etc. As well their removal could cause firmware issues. Yes, in Fairbanks the cooling part is questionable (I have lived there - got my Ph.D. at UAF).
Tom

That is creative, although it seems that not many parts of the D850 are used, so pretty wasteful. All they would need is the main board, sensor board mount, and the screen? I wonder how much that beast weighs? Likely one would need to add a very high end tracker to those 5 grands to carry it all.

(Just come to Alaska, cooling is all free here  )

[Akira]

These are the conversion kit to replace the Sony E/FE mount to an SLR mount (Nikon F, Canon EOS, Pentax K or Sony A) with rear filter thread.

http://www.koheisha.net/sony/emount/sony_emount01.html

[fish_shooter]

These look a bit cobbled together. Nonetheless the concept is good. It looks like the astro cam can use different size filters at the same time, not sure if these Sony examples will.
Tom

These are the conversion kit to replace the Sony E/FE mount to an SLR mount (Nikon F, Canon EOS, Pentax K or Sony A) with rear filter thread.

http://www.koheisha.net/sony/emount/sony_emount01.html

[Akira]

These look a bit cobbled together. Nonetheless the concept is good. It looks like the astro cam can use different size filters at the same time, not sure if these Sony examples will.
Tom

According to the description, you need to specify the filter size (52 or 48mm) when you order either Nikon or Canon mount.  The M54 mount (shown in the image at the very bottom) can accept a 52mm filter on the camera side and a 48mm one on the telescope side at the same time.

[JohnBrew]

Just returned from Portugal where I hauled around all the days my D810, Zeiss 50 Makro and trusty 105 Ai 2.5. I really NEED the mirrorless Nikon.
Of course there are rumors of a Fuji rangefinder MF, which if kept simple could lure me to crack open the vault.
But, after this trip the 810 is not going across the pond again. One day is okay, but over two weeks is just too much.
You can view my Portugal images on my website. More of a travelogue than serious photography.

[chambeshi]

I enjoyed reading this recent essay by Thom Hogan, in which he singled out what he sees as making Nikons Nikon. Alongside the great stable that's Nikkor glass, Thom lists 5 core seminal strings of "Nikon DNA" : Best in class still-image quality; Best ergonomics; State of the art technology; Intelligence; Legacy support ….

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-nikon-mirrorless-wish.html

[pluton]

Overall, Hogan's reasoning seems sound.  Of particular interest to me was the caution that the almost limitless backward compatibility between bodies and lenses may finally have to be broken.
Nevertheless, if the promised Nikon mirrorless product is intelligently designed for actual working photographers, it'll be a good addition to the camera world.

[Akira]

Overall, Hogan's reasoning seems sound.  Of particular interest to me was the caution that the almost limitless backward compatibility between bodies and lenses may finally have to be broken.
Nevertheless, if the promised Nikon mirrorless product is intelligently designed for actual working photographers, it'll be a good addition to the camera world.

My best bet for the compatibility offered by the Nikon mirrorless is for the AF-S G lenses and newer...  MF lenses should still be able to be used in M and A modes, which is common among any current mirrorless cameras of any brands.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

My best bet for the compatibility offered by the Nikon mirrorless is for the AF-S G lenses and newer...  MF lenses should still be able to be used in M and A modes, which is common among any current mirrorless cameras of any brands.

I suspect they will also support AF and AF-D lenses, but the precision of AF control in them does not lend itself to contrast-detect AF (there is a slight amount of play in the mechanism which makes it difficult to make small, precise step adjustments to focus to estimate the gradient). These lenses are most likely to work correctly in those situations where phase detection is used as the main source of information for AF.

In practice I would expect most users to want native lenses (at least if they want autofocus). I don't entirely understand the motivation for cross-system compatibility when the requirements for lenses with regards to exit pupil distance and AF control are different. For manual focus lenses of course this consideration doesn't apply and one would expect full compatibility.

[armando_m]

My best bet for the compatibility offered by the Nikon mirrorless is for the AF-S G lenses and newer...  MF lenses should still be able to be used in M and A modes, which is common among any current mirrorless cameras of any brands.

Right

It would be nice if it shoots and the meter works even with manual lenses with no electronics,  I do not mind if the exif does not show the lens data.

[Erik Lund]

The adapter for the Nikon 1 system, FT-1 is quite complex since there are numerous differences in the electronics to the SLR lenses, it also needs a mechanical servo system with gearbox etc. for aperture stop down action, to make the SLR lenses work at all,,, this among other details makes it slower, this is unavoidable. So the adapter approach will always be a compromise.

[jd1566]

I think that overall Mirrorless still has a long way to go, as per my experiences via Sony A7 and Fuji X cameras.  Sony at the moment is highly active and is releasing camera after camera and has a lot of hype generated by the forums and youtube videos of early adopters, as well as people from press events.  Yet I don't see many Mirrorless cameras at pro events, and the clatter of clicks at Presidential briefings leads me to conclude that they're thin on the ground there as well.  Where they seem to be making an impact is with enthusiasts.  The point is irrelevant however. 

My point really is that the high rate of iteration we're seeing with Sony is a symptom of Mirrorless' lack of capability. Put another way, DSLR's have developed from film cameras and their capabilities have evolved over time.  Mirrorless is attempting to do in less time and fewer generations what the mature DSLR's have done for years. And it shows.  I believe Mirrorless is still one or two cycles from truly challenging DSLR's. And I'm not alone in this.  I cite ByThom's excellent analysis of mirrorless cameras as case in point (see latest comparison D70 vs A7III).  And DSLR's are not a stationary target, as the Nikon D850 has shown, incorporating many (but not all) of the advances of mirrorless into it's design, while maintaining the advantages and DNA of Nikon. 

As I mentionned on another forum post I will be selling my Sony A7RIII because it is simply too cumbersome to use. Ironic, a small camera cumbersome!  I know, I know.. might start a flame war here.  However FOR ME it takes away too much of what I enjoyed about DSLR's while not giving me enough Mirrorless magic.  Sure the EVF is amazing and way better than using an LCD on a D850.  Sure the stabilised sensor makes using older manual focus and unstabilised AF lenses more practical.  But the overall package is lacking in too many areas, and one very obvious one. Hold one, and you will know within 10 seconds if it is for you. And if it is, Im happy for you, truly I am. However ergonomically it is too big of a step back. 

So I stand by my argument that mirrorless is simply not ready. And the high cost of entry will burn many a consumer.  Prices for Sony FF mirrorless are decreasing minute by minute.  The A9 announced middle of last year is already $1000 off! Hefty premium to pay for being an early adopter.  The A7RIII is now $200 off, and a lot less on EBay.  The A7III is priced more reasonably, but don't be fooled. As more and more use it and compare it to the FF DSLR cameras (where prices have already dropped because of age) they will also take a hit on pricing.  Simply put the mirrorless cameras are even more consumer than high-end DSLR's.  We early adopters are paying dearly for it.   I purchased my D810 at signicant discount 2 years ago and sold it for exactly what I paid for it a month ago.  Try that with a A7RII?  So we have a value discrepancy as well as capability issue here as well.  Simply put Mirrorless are cheaper to make, and their used prices are reflecting this reality.

Yes, I know used prices are supply and demand, but there is an intrinsic value that we place on things as well, and that intrinsic value has to do with percieved quality. And that equation does not bode well for Sony in the long term.  My prediction.. their prices will come down substancially at the next upgrade round, and their capability will increase to reach DSLR like levels.  In the mean while DSLR's will mimic Mirrorless where they can while maintaining their own substantial advantages. End result?  Mirrorless will not be takng over the photography world anytime soon.  Unless Nikon or Canon decide otherwise :-) 

[chambeshi]

I think that overall Mirrorless still has a long way to go, as per my experiences via Sony A7 and Fuji X cameras.  Sony at the moment is highly active and is releasing camera after camera and has a lot of hype generated by the forums and youtube videos of early adopters, as well as people from press events.  Yet I don't see many Mirrorless cameras at pro events, and the clatter of clicks at Presidential briefings leads me to conclude that they're thin on the ground there as well.  Where they seem to be making an impact is with enthusiasts.  The point is irrelevant however.  My point really is that the high rate of iteration we're seeing with Sony is a symptom of Mirrorless' lack of capability. Put another way, DSLR's have developed from film cameras and their capabilities have evolved over time.  Mirrorless is attempting to do in less time and fewer generations what the mature DSLR's have done for years. And it shows.  I believe Mirrorless is still one or two cycles from truly challenging DSLR's.

even more cycles - given the Nikon F was released in 1959. Albeit mirrorless coopted a great deal of this hard earned SLR technology. The LCD panel in the DSLR is one

And I'm not alone in this.  I cite ByThom's excellent analysis of mirrorless cameras as case in point (see latest comparison D70 vs A7III).  And DSLR's are not a stationary target, as the Nikon D850 has shown, incorporating many (but not all) of the advances of mirrorless into it's design, while maintaining the advantages and DNA of Nikon. 

I rely more and more on the D850's mirrorless, the focus peaking and silent shutter especially. The top end DSLRs to follow will integrate more and more of these features. The clincher will be a hybrid that builds a EVF into the SLR viewfinder

As I mentionned on another forum post I will be selling my Sony A7RIII because it is simply too cumbersome to use. Ironic, a small camera cumbersome!  I know, I know.. might start a flame war here.  However FOR ME it takes away too much of what I enjoyed about DSLR's while not giving me enough Mirrorless magic.  Sure the EVF is amazing and way better than using an LCD on a D850.  Sure the stabilised sensor makes using older manual focus and unstabilised AF lenses more practical.  But the overall package is lacking in too many areas, and one very obvious one. Hold one, and you will know within 10 seconds if it is for you. And if it is, Im happy for you, truly I am. However ergonomically it is too big of a step back.

 So I stand by my argument that mirrorless is simply not ready. And the high cost of entry will burn many a consumer.  Prices for Sony FF mirrorless are decreasing minute by minute.  The A9 announced middle of last year is already $1000 off! Hefty premium to pay for being an early adopter.  The A7RIII is now $200 off, and a lot less on EBay.  The A7III is priced more reasonably, but don't be fooled.. As more and more use it and compare it to the FF DSLR cameras (where prices have already dropped because of age) they will also take a hit on pricing..  simply put the mirrorless cameras are even more consumer than high-end DSLR's.  We early adopters are paying dearly for it.   I purchased my D810 at signicant discount 2 years ago and sold it for exactly what I paid for it a month ago.  Try that with a A7RII?  So we have a value discrepancy as well as capability issue here as well.  Simply put Mirrorless are cheaper to make, and their used prices are reflecting this reality. Yes, I know used prices are supply and demand, but there is an intrinsic value that we place on things as well, and that intrinsic value has to do with percieved quality.. And that equation does not bode well for Sony in the long term.  My prediction.. their prices will come down substancially at the next upgrade round, and their capability will increase to reach DSLR like levels.  In the mean while DSLR's will mimic Mirrorless where they can while maintaining their own substantial advantages. End result?  Mirrorless will not be takng over the photography world anytime soon.  Unless Nikon or Canon decide otherwise :-)

According to sales by age profile, the bulk of the growing market seeks simple cameras. The latter bundled into smart phones are an innovation that too many confuse to be equivalent to the cameras and optics that confer vital features to pro and enthusiast photographers. How can this dichotomy be broken down - if at all? [EDITED}