The Mirrorless Nikon D850

[Michael Erlewine]

That’s how I use the Nikon D850, with no mirror (or mirror-slap) and only LiveView. I never was infatuated by the mirrorless concept just because it was a smaller camera. I like the size of the D800E, D810, and D850. If anything I liked about the concept of a mirrorless camear was the “idea” of using alternative lenses, getting perhaps a greater field of view out of some really fine lenses.

I was disappointed with the Pentax K3 and K1 (which I owned) and how little they lent themselves to alternative lenses. Same goes for the Hasselblad X1D (which I bought); although they have some nice lenses of their own, they did not care about all my lenses. As for the Fuji GFX (which I also bought), I held out hope for it accommodating the many great lenses I have, and they did do a so-so job, IMO; they kind of came half-way, but certainly not like I had hoped or imagined.

I sent all the above cameras back or sold them and was left with my Nikon D810, which did work for me and which I appreciated. But my thirst for what I imagined mirrorless might bring was still there.

Then along came the Nikon D850. It was everything I could hope for in a mirrorless camera other than it was heavier (which I did not care) and it had a mirror (which I never have used, other than to test it). The Live View LCD on the D850 was just enough better to be fully usable by me and those few extra pixels (45.7 Mpx, which don’t seem like much, are just enough to quench my thirst for a larger sensor.

Then it dawned on me that most of my search for a medium-format mirrorless was about the EVF and not about the presence or absence of a mirror, a larger sensor (or so I thought), being smaller, or anything else. Give me a workable LiveView screen, an electronic front-curtain shutter, silence, and turn the mirror-up off and I am a happy camper. I am.

So, the bottom line for me is that I am interested in what Nikon will come up with in their potentially forthcoming mirrorless camera, but I don’t need it. Yes, if it is 100 Mpx I would turn my head and if it had an even better EVF that might interest me too. But I doubt we will see in it THAT large a sensor and actually I don’t really need it. My very fast computer is already chugging on the D850 files.

For me, the Nikon D850, as I use it, IS the mirrorless camera I always imagined AND it has all the other goodies that I have learned to love in a Nikon DSLR.

If I had to guess, I’ll bet that the forthcoming Nikon mirrorless will NOT add up to what I have right now in the Nikon D850.

Your thoughts, other than that I may be crazy. LOL.

Shot with the Nikon D850 and the Schneider Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5

[Jack Dahlgren]

Your usage and the reasoning you apply to camera choice certainly are coherent and point out the fact that the D850 is BOTH mirrorless and reflex camera.

I have slightly different use cases, and would welcome the potential for a smaller lighter body and smaller lenses. I carry my Df everywhere, using it mostly with short lenses, and it would be nice if it could lose an inch here and there. A tilting rear screen would also help as I like to hold the camera at arms length to look from above or at low angles.

Of course, the biggest issue is not in the feature or function itself, but rather how well is it implemented. A great optical viewfinder is better than a bad electronic viewfinder, and the reverse of that is possible as well.

If I were a birder or sports photographer I think I’d want whatever viewfinder to be a real-time detailed view. Here again, mirrors always have a blackout period, but when open they refresh at the speed of light. There are always trade-offs.

For the 850 both are available, making it a very good all-around camera.

[Frank Fremerey]

there are technical aspects to a camera. all nice to have.

but I feel what makes me love a camera an get better pictures is the handling an the integration into my workflow

Funny. I mistyped "workglow" and it fits Michael's work wonderfully!!!

[JohnBrew]

I think that implementation is going to be the 'buzzword" for most of us. The new mirrorless Nikon is going to require new lenses (damn!). However, they certainly will not leave us F lens people in the lurch and will have an F adapter available from the get-go?
Personally I will order one the instant they are available. This has got to be the travel camera for me. I am (on my knees) praying that if they have to use an EVF it will be a game changer even against the Leica SL!
I believe Nikon knows they have to knock this one out of the park and if they don't Canon and Sony will eat their lunch. When you're talking about entire new native lens systems it will be easy for anyone to change brands, just saying...

[tommiejeep]

John, agree,   Sony has been big on Innovation but poor on Implementation.  The a9 and third generation appears that some photographers have gained ground on Techs and Marketing but a long ways to go.  If Nikon can put all of the improvements to DSLRs  gained over the years, towards producing a great mirrorless then they could do very well.  Lens adapter will be a huge deal.  My a7ii and a7rii are very slow in operation and have too many quirks to make them a pleasure to use. They rank 3rd behind my Nikons and Olympus bodies.  If I were making lots of money from Photography(lol) and agonized over every image (I am not and I don't) I would probably be happier with Sony (maybe) 
Tom

[Akira]

I'm interested in the sensor Nikon is going to employ for their FX mirrorless body.  Even if the banding caused by the reflections from PDAF pixels on the sensor could be a rare issue, Nikon would concern about the possibility, unlike other manufacturers.

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Is the banding also present in dual pixel enabled sensors?

If not, this could be the answer. One drawback is that the sensor photosite count has to be double of what is realized in the final resulting image (or quadruple in a quad-pixel cross-type implementation), and this presents a  processing burden for the camera (since AF data needs to be acquired quickly and processed in an instant, having (say) 50 to 200 million photosites to read for each AF step seems like a lot of work for the camera's processors).

But, NHK do 8K video at 240fps now so maybe the processing capability is within reach in the future. And of course Canon have had dual-pixel AF for a while, but it's not as fast as one might hope for.

[Akira]

Is the banding also present in dual pixel enabled sensors?

If not, this could be the answer. One drawback is that the sensor photosite count has to be double of what is realized in the final resulting image (or quadruple in a quad-pixel cross-type implementation), and this presents a  processing burden for the camera (since AF data needs to be acquired quickly and processed in an instant, having (say) 50 to 200 million photosites to read for each AF step seems like a lot of work for the camera's processors).

But, NHK do 8K video at 240fps now so maybe the processing capability is within reach in the future. And of course Canon have had dual-pixel AF for a while, but it's not as fast as one might hope for.

I haven't heard of the banding issue of Canon's dual pixel sensor.  The current Panasonic models employ 240fps CDAF on the 20MP sensors, but I think the shorter read-out time of a small sensor is beneficial here.

[arthurking83]

Sounds like you need a Phase One XF to complete the cycle.
Add in the 100Mp IQ3 back.
Output to a high quality hi res screen via HDMI(rather than a dinky little viewfinder!!)

.. and you're all set.

Don't know how adaptable the XF is to the lenses you have tho.

[Lenco]

With apologies to Mr Erlewine, I'm new D850 user, so could you explain the maneuvers that make it a mirrorless camera. Also, since you use LV exclusively, do you use a magnifier or similar to shield from bright light?

[Michael Erlewine]

With apologies to Mr Erlewine, I'm new D850 user, so could you explain the maneuvers that make it a mirrorless camera. Also, since you use LV exclusively, do you use a magnifier or similar to shield from bright light?

On the D850, I use LiveView and magnification to focus. If I am outside n bright light I use a little viewfinder (Zacuto) that I hold up to the back of the camera. Is use liveView as you would an EVF.

[Ann]

I use a 10" x 8" LiveView screen. (It is really an iPad used to control the camera over its own WiFi network with CamRanger.)

I can set and control focusing and all my camera settings on the iPad. I can also use it with my StackShot equipment.

This is what my set-up looks like when used to drive StackShot:







Another advantage (apart from the large control-panel cum viewfinder) is that you are not touching the camera body itself. (you could also drive CamRanger with an iPhone but I prefer to use the large screen of an iPad.

This set-up provides me with both remote radio-control of the camera and a walk-about off-camera flash.

[fish_shooter]

FYI, one can now buy a mirrorless (effectively) D850 right now with some special benefits:
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/05/27/new-nikon-d850-cooled-camera-for-astrophotography.aspx/#more-122197
It will cost you a cool (!!) five grand!
Tom

[Seapy]

Cool! 

[Øivind Tøien]

That is creative, although it seems that not many parts of the D850 are used, so pretty wasteful. All they would need is the main board, sensor board mount, and the screen? I wonder how much that beast weighs? Likely one would need to add a very high end tracker to those 5 grands to carry it all.

(Just come to Alaska, cooling is all free here  )