This is how much a new Voigtländer 125mm f/2.5 Apo-Lanthar Costs

[JKoerner007]

Err, no ... the pictures above are clear evidence. The focus throw from infinity to 5m or 3m is clearly much longer with the Zeiss 135/2 than the CV 125. I have no doubt the same continues further along the focus range.

Err .. no, back at you.

Your cut-n-paste pictures indicate nothing, as far as your understanding of the lens goes.

You are saying the CV 125 has 420° focus throw from infinity to 1:4 (will be near 0.7 - 0.75m) and only 200° for the rest of the macro range to 1:1. I don't have this lens but I warrant that those figures are backwards. Or you are measuring something else ...? (the little x2 and x4 markings on the focus ring are not magnification ratios, they indicate exposure compensation required...)

Your 'imagination' is what's backwards.

It's really this simple: rotate the ring, from closest focus, to 1:4 ... that's about 200° (note: this is the real world, with the real lens, not your imaginations from 'pictures' behind a computer )

Rotate the rest of the way ... that's about 420° (same note as above).

I'm not arguing about the qualities or usefulness of the CV 125, just trying to get some facts straight.

I am glad you're not arguing this, too

But you really should STOP opining about a lens you have neither touched, nor used, nor measured, personally

I invite other CV 125 lens owners to either (1) correct me, or (2) correct you, in this regard

[Roland Vink]

It's really this simple: rotate the ring, from closest focus, to 1:4 ... that's about 200° (note: this is the real world, with the real lens, not your imaginations from 'pictures' behind a computer )

* sigh *
What are the focus distances you are measuring? "Closest focus" should be 0.38m, 1:1 right?
What focus distance is 1:4? There are no reproduction ratios marked on the lens so what is the distance you are measuring to?

Another question since you have the lens on hand, what is the focus throw from infinity to 0.8m (the close focus limit of the Zeiss 135) ?

[JKoerner007]

* sigh *
What are the focus distances you are measuring? "Closest focus" should be 0.38m, 1:1 right?

*Sigh* returned ... yes.

Here are the facts:

The CV 125 has 620° of total focus throw.
The Zeiss 135 has 270° of total focus throw.

620 - 270 = 350.

You're trying to say that the CV 125 has more than 350° of focus throw dedicated to "1:4 to 1:1" without ever touching the lens.

What focus distance is 1:4? There are no reproduction ratios marked on the lens so what is the distance you are measuring to?

Just shy of 2 feet.

Another question since you have the lens on hand, what is the focus throw from infinity to 0.8m (the close focus limit of the Zeiss 135) ?

Do you mean the first time, or the second time, 0.8m passes on the rotation effort?

[Bjørn Rørslett]

Please keep discussion on a less personal level.

[Erik Lund]

I agree with Bjørn here, let's stick to the lenses.


I have a feeling that the technical terms are not used uniformly in this debate, so let's clear that up as soon as possible.

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

I have noted all your postings, as well as a multitude of images (yours and others') from this lens ... and I agree ... it is capable of images that no other lens could produce.

Technically-excellent (sharp), when needed, and just a random surprise (often beyond anything hoped) when played with ...

You're about to make my wallet $1000 lighter .. again .. lol

Hardly known or fogotten: There are two other lenses which where then made based on a US gov contract with about identical data and performance, when Nikon was no longer supplying this CRT Nikkor lens, those can be had for quite less... (I have them all)


(c) Wiki Commons

[JKoerner007]

Please keep discussion on a less personal level.

I agree with Bjørn here, let's stick to the lenses.


I have a feeling that the technical terms are not used uniformly in this debate, so let's clear that up as soon as possible.

You're right.

Apologies to Roland for the sarcasm ... made all the more bitter because he was right

I just tested/measured from a tripod, putting a piece of tape at infinity, and taking a photo of a ruler. With my hat in my hand, I report the following:

At the 144 mm mark "filling the 36mm frame" (1:4 reproduction ratio), the Voigtländer 125mm f/2.5 Apo-Lanthar has approximately 150° of focus throw, from ∞ to 1:4, with a 22" working distance from the front of the lens (hood removed) to the ruler.

I measured the total focus throw of this lens as 630° (one complete rotation + 3/4 of another full rotation, computed as 360° + 270° = 630° of focus throw).

Roland's exercise basically shows (a) that I should authentically measure, not guesstimate, before I type, and (b) why I love the CV 125mm.
It is basically two lenses in one:

• A fine portrait lens, with 150° of focus throw from 1:4 to ∞, with Cosina/Zeiss quality; and
• One helluva macro lens, with 480° of focus throw dedicated to the 1:4 to 1:1 macro magnification range, which blows any Zeiss out of the water, and with which no other macro lens can compare.

The Zeiss gives 270° of focus throw down to 1:4, but is impotent beyond that, which happens to be the most important range for my work.
As a field naturalist's lens, for live subjects which don't require AF, the CV 125mm has no equal in my book.

[JKoerner007]

Hardly known or fogotten: There are two other lenses which where then made based on a US gov contract with about identical data and performance, when Nikon was no longer supplying this CRT Nikkor lens, those can be had for quite less... (I have them all)


(c) Wiki Commons

Nice

[Macro_Cosmos]

Then why talk so much about the lens, and other ($4,000 - $9,000) "apo"  lenses, if spending $1600 sends you into a tailspin?



Those lenses are not not in the same league with the Voigtländer 125mm f/2.5.

You also don't need to 'go' to Japan to find one, they're on Ebay (listed by multiple Japanese vendors) from $1600 to $2,000 for a pristine copy, maybe up to $2,500 for a mint copy with box, etc.

Personally, I don't need the box, I just need what it can do.

If you only stack dead insects in a studio, then you'll never appreciate the CV 125.
But if you go out and stack live insects (or flowers) in subtle morning light, the 630° of focus throw + the CV's excellent sharpness wide-open, punctuated with its subtle ability to render bokeh/color gradations will captivate you.

As a macro shooter, you'll find it's the best $1,600 you ever spent

I usually work beyond 2:1, so owning the CV would be more of a luxury than a tool, that's why I can justify spending $5000 on a high-magnification macro setup but not $1.6k on a lens.
With regards to Japan, I've seen some at around $1200, which is a line I'm happy to cross, moreover, considering the resell value, I'm certain that I will end up with more than I paid for.
You have to keep in mind that Ebay robs up to 10% of your sales value, and paypal double-dips 2.9%. These percentages also unjustifiably applies to postage. I understand that need to make money, that's why I personally will look at purchasing a copy in Japan locally -- just to avoid the fees, if that makes sense. Shipping internationally is also something I don't really like, especially if I'm going to drop over 1k on a precise optical item.

Another thing about "those" lenses is that often or not, someone does not know what they are selling. People who would sell a CV 125mm know how much it is worth, people who would sell say some S-biotar lens attached to a scrapped film camera or some weirdo industrial equipment more than often don't know its value. I just picked up 2 thorlabs precision stages from a seller that sells computer parts for next to nothing, the stages are $300+ new. I also purchased a line scanner with a special custom-made nikon rayfact attached. Unlike the printing-nikkors which are optimised for a specific magnification, that one seems to perform extremely well at 1:2 and way beyond. Example:
Laowa 25mm 2.5-5x Ultra-macro Size Comparison by Macro Cosmos (DH)
Third lens.

Daisychaining Bellows… by Macro Cosmos (DH)
Daisychaining 2 PB-4 Bellows: $5 Bill by Macro Cosmos (DH)

And yes, in terms of sharpness and rendition, those 2 lenses aren't comparable to the CV. In terms of versatility however, easily the tilt shift lenses win. I use both tilt and shift, and it's not for those over done toy effect or whatever people call it. You're spot on when it comes to focus throw -- the 85mm is a pain to focus. I can only guarantee one sharp shot out of 10 when handholding it, the focus throw is so ridiculously short, it's just pathetic. The 24mm goes down to 1:2.2 or something, I'll just round it down to 1:2, you can get some very interesting perspectives that the CV 125mm won't be able to produce, so unless we're talking about pure pictorial qualities, there's no comparison between those 2 and the CV 125mm, they are way too different.

I'm usually not able to "go out in early morning", that's when I sleep. I sleep at 5am and get up at 12am-1pm. I enjoy working in the studio with dead bugs, creating high magnification stacks, sometimes even panoramas.

[JKoerner007]

I usually work beyond 2:1, so owning the CV would be more of a luxury than a tool, that's why I can justify spending $5000 on a high-magnification macro setup but not $1.6k on a lens.
With regards to Japan, I've seen some at around $1200, which is a line I'm happy to cross, moreover, considering the resell value, I'm certain that I will end up with more than I paid for.
You have to keep in mind that Ebay robs up to 10% of your sales value, and paypal double-dips 2.9%. These percentages also unjustifiably applies to postage. I understand that need to make money, that's why I personally will look at purchasing a copy in Japan locally -- just to avoid the fees, if that makes sense. Shipping internationally is also something I don't really like, especially if I'm going to drop over 1k on a precise optical item.

I agree, if you're a studio shooter at 1:1, and beyond, the CV 125 isn't much of a choice. I almost never use my own in-studio 1:1; I use a reversed 50mm and wider primes for closer-magnification. (Will be using that Laowa after it ships )

Ebay is bad for sellers, but can be good for buyers. You're talking selling.

Regarding buying, the $400 difference between $1200 and $1600 is far less than a trip to Japan, imo (unless you live there, or plan on going there anyway).

Another thing about "those" lenses is that often or not, someone does not know what they are selling. People who would sell a CV 125mm know how much it is worth, people who would sell say some S-biotar lens attached to a scrapped film camera or some weirdo industrial equipment more than often don't know its value. I just picked up 2 thorlabs precision stages from a seller that sells computer parts for next to nothing, the stages are $300+ new. I also purchased a line scanner with a special custom-made nikon rayfact attached. Unlike the printing-nikkors which are optimised for a specific magnification, that one seems to perform extremely well at 1:2 and way beyond. Example:

Comparing studio accessory components to the subject of this thread (the CV 125) seems an invalid comparison.

We're talking lenses here, not components.

If you're a 100% studio shooter, then I agree, there are many options I too would select besides the CV 125.

However, if you decide to go outdoors, then scanners, breadboards, and the like, are complete anachronisms in this type of setting.

And yes, in terms of sharpness and rendition, those 2 lenses aren't comparable to the CV. In terms of versatility however, easily the tilt shift lenses win. I use both tilt and shift, and it's not for those over done toy effect or whatever people call it. You're spot on when it comes to focus throw -- the 85mm is a pain to focus. I can only guarantee one sharp shot out of 10 when handholding it, the focus throw is so ridiculously short, it's just pathetic. The 24mm goes down to 1:2.2 or something, I'll just round it down to 1:2, you can get some very interesting perspectives that the CV 125mm won't be able to produce, so unless we're talking about pure pictorial qualities, there's no comparison between those 2 and the CV 125mm, they are way too different.

Mmmm, totally disagree with the idea the 85mm tilt-shift "easily wins" over the CV 125 in versatility. (IMO, it is exactly the opposite.)

The tilt-shift is, by far, the more limited item ... reduced to only a few useful parameters, in which it does shine ... but is useless for almost anything else (no 1:1, no focus throw, no sharpness/bokeh by comparison, inferior color rendering, etc.). IMO it takes a way distant back seat to the Voigtländer as a naturalist's optic.

I'm usually not able to "go out in early morning", that's when I sleep. I sleep at 5am and get up at 12am-1pm. I enjoy working in the studio with dead bugs, creating high magnification stacks, sometimes even panoramas.

If studio is your thing, using artificial lighting, then I agree the CV 125 is not the right choice (I have one, and even I never use it in my own studio for macro).

However, for authentic nature photography in nature's best light, the CV 125 is close to peerless.

We both enjoy studio macro; where we differ is I am able to get 2x, 3x, 4x, and 5x macro stacks ... of many arthropods ... without harming anything.
(I do understand the challenge of dealing with the potential for movement, but that is also part of the reward ... when you're able to succeed with the stack of a live organism ... and can return it, unharmed, where you found it.)

[Macro_Cosmos]

Hardly known or fogotten: There are two other lenses which where then made based on a US gov contract with about identical data and performance, when Nikon was no longer supplying this CRT Nikkor lens, those can be had for quite less... (I have them all)


(c) Wiki Commons

  Thanks! I'd like to stalk these lenses!

[Macro_Cosmos]

I agree, if you're a studio shooter at 1:1, and beyond, the CV 125 isn't much of a choice. I almost never use my own in-studio 1:1; I use a reversed 50mm and wider primes for closer-magnification. (Will be using that Laowa after it ships )

Hope you enjoy the Laowa! I'm certainly enjoying mine Great to know people have interest in such a lens, maybe Laowa will make up his mind and make us a 5-10x as well! Goodbye Mitutoyo, I won't miss your consumer-level quality control 

Ebay is bad for sellers, but can be good for buyers. You're talking selling.

I can rant on and eat my keyboard about this!
You know what? I just received another warning for providing a buyer with my phone number! Ebay's messaging system sucks buffalo toes. I once missed an arranged pickup due to the notification, offered the item for free to avoid a negative rating. Thankfully it was essentially worthless. The warning message was about selling outside of ebay, sent AFTER the buyer has PAID, AND  RECEIVED the item, and left a positive feedback!!!!! Grrrrrrrr... Last time it was because a buyer wanted to arrange a local inspection. I'm calling them up tomorrow (eh, today, it's 3:30 am), I can't take this anymore, all my listings have been disabled and account is banned for a week.

Regarding buying, the $400 difference between $1200 and $1600 is far less than a trip to Japan, imo (unless you live there, or plan on going there anyway).

I plan on visiting Japan anyway Not going to specifically go there just for a lens and indulging in Japanese food all day haha.

Comparing studio accessory components to the subject of this thread (the CV 125) seems an invalid comparison.

We're talking lenses here, not components.

If you're a 100% studio shooter, then I agree, there are many options I too would select besides the CV 125.

However, if you decide to go outdoors, then scanners, breadboards, and the like, are complete anachronisms in this type of setting.

Oh, what I meant was I'm strictly a studio worker, actually it's called "digitising specimens". I can justify splurging lots of money on my setup since it's for the field I work in. The CV 125mm however would be a luxury item, rather than a cash maker (well, I'm still learning and gaining skills, not making too much cash yet).

Mmmm, totally disagree with the idea the 85mm tilt-shift "easily wins" over the CV 125 in versatility. (IMO, it is exactly the opposite.)

The tilt-shift is, by far, the more limited item ... reduced to only a few useful parameters, in which it does shine ... but is useless for almost anything else (no 1:1, no focus throw, no sharpness/bokeh by comparison, inferior color rendering, etc.). IMO it takes a way distant back seat to the Voigtländer as a naturalist's optic.

I've used tubes on my 85mm, getting to 1:1, tilt-shift works just fine, and the images are still tact-sharp. The colours aren't the best but realistic enough. Capture One does a great job anyway, the colours produced are snappy to my eye, maybe not to others, but eh, colours is really the realms of subjectivity here. I personally cannot understand why people like those Sigma colours, and even claim that "because it's desaturated, it gives more room for post-processing", this just sounds ridiculous.
Nikon D810 Jpeg Fine VS LR Raw and C1 Raw Conversions by Macro Cosmos (DH)
I'm not sure which lens is sharper, I don't have doubts that the CV would win, however I won't be surprised if the 85mm wins either. Bokeh on the 85mm is just fine in my opinion, or perhaps I've never used a CV to truly appreciate its bokeh rendering. The several major problems I have with the 85mm is its ridiculously short (and frankly stupid) focus throw, gruesome LoCA, and the knobs being tiny.
I use mine primarily for landscapes and close-ups. I'm pretty horrible when it comes to landscapes but I do enjoy it however.
Sydney City Under Blue Hour by Macro Cosmos (DH)

The 24mm is pretty solid as well, but it does have some problems too. Namely the resolution is just enough for the D810, I'm guessing a D850 will render it unusable, perhaps not, I don't know. The knobs are also tiny. Here's a close-up. I like the bubbly specular highlight balls, some people don't like it. Bokeh though, this is a wide angle lens, so getting any sort of bokeh requires sticking the lens up to the object extremely closely. This is a stack of 8 exposures I believe, at f8 or f5.6.
Some Spiky Fruit by Macro Cosmos (DH)

If studio is your thing, using artificial lighting, then I agree the CV 125 is not the right choice (I have one, and even I never use it in my own studio for macro).

However, for authentic nature photography in nature's best light, the CV 125 is close to peerless.

We both enjoy studio macro; where we differ is I am able to get 2x, 3x, 4x, and 5x macro stacks ... of many arthropods ... without harming anything.
(I do understand the challenge of dealing with the potential for movement, but that is also part of the reward ... when you're able to succeed with the stack of a live organism ... and can return it, unharmed, where you found it.)

I've actually obtained some 10x stacks of live critters before. It was far from perfect, but good enough I'd say. I'm surrounded by spiders, and find their corpses everywhere actually, I don't have a problem keeping the corpse. As for killing a living critter, I try not to, but sometimes accidents happen    Ehh, forgetting I left it in the freezer is an example, didn't like the feel. But yeah, if I want to work in the field of specimen digitising, it would be strictly dead critters being handled. I like stacking minerals more than I like stacking critters actually. Minerals are very challenging also. Here's a recent one with the laowa
Gold Nugget by Macro Cosmos (DH)

[Macro_Cosmos]

Hardly known or fogotten: There are two other lenses which where then made based on a US gov contract with about identical data and performance, when Nikon was no longer supplying this CRT Nikkor lens, those can be had for quite less... (I have them all)


(c) Wiki Commons

http://collectiblend.com/Lenses/images/Nikon-58mm-f1.0-CRT-Nikkor.jpg
I just saw this, a 58mm f/1 (!!!!!!!) CRT lens, what the?
Never had a clue about its existence 

Seems like there's only one copy ever made? I'd like to see some images from it, too bad it's in a collector's hands, most likely.

[MILLIREHM]

http://collectiblend.com/Lenses/images/Nikon-58mm-f1.0-CRT-Nikkor.jpg
I just saw this, a 58mm f/1 (!!!!!!!) CRT lens, what the?
Never had a clue about its existence 

Seems like there's only one copy ever made? I'd like to see some images from it, too bad it's in a collector's hands, most likely.

Oh damn this is from 2006, i am too late !!!
8700 $ then

How do you know that there is just one sample made?

And yes probably it is now in a collectors shelf - unused

[Seapy]

Or Dr. Klaus has it?    LOL