This is how much a new Voigtländer 125mm f/2.5 Apo-Lanthar Costs

[JKoerner007]

Well, without one it will be harder to be sure, but if I know anything about you, you will get there sooner or later.

I very much appreciate your passion for Apo ... but also for macro.

Where we diverge, I believe, is in the comparative sizes in the subjects we photograph.

Thus we'll often have different tool preferences.

For artistic macro, arthropods, the CV is it.

For artistic close-up (1:4 and larger), the Zeiss makes sense, though I think the CV does this well also.

[Michael Erlewine]

I very much appreciate your passion for Apo ... but also for macro.

Where we diverge, I believe, is in the comparative sizes in the subjects we photograph.

For me, where we differ is mainly age. I have been at it since the 1940s, natural history and photographing since I was 14 years old.

I believe, in time, we will converge more on APO lenses, of which the CV-125 is a good example. Don't underestimate the Zeiss 100mm Macro Elmarit-R. It is more refined than the CV-125 and there is a 60mm Elmarit that is VERY useful. For me, I got past my interest in 1:1 photos and got more into wider angles. This is done, if I remember, with the D810 and the Otus 55 mm.

[JKoerner007]

For me, where we differ is mainly age. I have been at it since the 1940s, natural history and photographing since I was 14 years old.

I'm catching up to you quick in the age department

We do share similarities, yes.

My first 'pets' 5-6 were jumping spiders, black widows, and praying mantids.

In junior high, as a pre-teen, when other kids were ditching school to smoke pot ... I was ditching school catching rattlesnakes

I believe, in time, we will converge more on APO lenses, of which the CV-125 is a good example. Don't underestimate the Zeiss 100mm Macro Elmarit-R. It is more refined than the CV-125 and there is a 60mm Elmarit that is VERY useful. For me, I got past my interest in 1:1 photos and got more into wider angles. This is done, if I remember, with the D810 and the Otus 55 mm.

Beautiful image ... and you're right ... I do appreciate "stepping back" and capturing the scene, which you did wonderfully, here.

Seeing other people's work, such as your own, helps me broaden my perspective.

As a hiker, though, I just can't justify having the Zeiss 135 and the Voigtländer 125 in my pouch, occupying the same niche. One of them had to go.
The Voigtländer takes beautiful images like that also ... and it gets in close when I need it. The Zeiss was too limited.

I have been very curious about the Leica 100mm Macro Elmarit-R ... but the CV 125 is just perfect for its niche ... and I thank you for turning me on to it.
I will probably secure a copy of the Leica, though, if only to see it for myself ...

As you are, I too am very particular with my needs. I can appreciate the opinions and needs of other discriminating lens aficionados, while realizing they don't exactly match my own.

That said, I will bet ... if we were contemporaries ... living in the same proximity ... we'd both be hiking, talking lenses ... and that you'd bring your CV 125 for those hikes as well

Cheers,

[Michael Erlewine]

Jack: Another lens you might like (I do) is the Leitz Wetzlar 60mm Elmarit-R f/2.8. It is not APO, but it is pretty well corrected and it is only 62.3 mm long and weighs only 400 g. I had to convert it to Nikon mount, but it is a very handy lens for hiking and has that nice Leica bokeh. Of course, there is a larger more expensive version that is APO, which I do not have. I have the Otus series.

You can pick it up on Ebay for $400 or so.

http://allphotolenses.com/public/files/pdfs/1943a3777204b6a7fb3a3dd94ab6e811.pdf

[JKoerner007]

Jack: Another lens you might like (I do) is the Leitz Wetzlar 60mm Elmarit-R f/2.8. It is not APO, but it is pretty well corrected and it is only 62.3 mm long and weighs only 400 g. I had to convert it to Nikon mount, but it is a very handy lens for hiking and has that nice Leica bokeh. Of course, there is a larger more expensive version that is APO, which I do not have. I have the Otus series.

You can pick it up on Ebay for $400 or so.

http://allphotolenses.com/public/files/pdfs/1943a3777204b6a7fb3a3dd94ab6e811.pdf

That is a beautiful lens, in alignment with my wishes (hopes) that Nikon creates a whole new MF line. Perfect size and look.

That said, of the lenses you've highlighted over the years we've known each other, the two most likely to be purchased by "yours truly" are ... (drumroll, please):

• The Nikkor-O 55mm f1.2 CRT; and
• The Coastal Optics UV-VIS-IR 60mm Macro

These two lenses appear to be exactly in alignment with my own personal needs ... as well as being true "keepers" ... unique in a way no other lens can really touch. Especially #1.

We'll see

Edit: PS: Show me the Apo version of this lens (Leitz Wetzlar 60mm Elmarit-R f/2.8 ), if you have the time. I'd like to see it.

[Michael Erlewine]

• The Coastal Optics UV-VIS-IR 60mm Macro

I agree about the CRT Nikkor. I love it.

But not the Coastal Optics lens. It has such a short focus throw that it has to be used on a focus rail to stack. I could hardly focus it for single shots because touching it turned it too far, etc. IMO. And while the lens was highly corrected, the cheap case and lack of hood, etc. is not up to snuff. And the hot spot is for me, in a macro lens, really a PITA... a serious mistake.

I owned this lens for years and sold to a buyer in China. And what I liked least about it was that in a forest, with mottled light coming from above, the lens did NOT handle the light well, but tended to blow out the highlights. That I could not tolerate, so let me know how you like it. It will make you love your CV-125 even more, although it is not as well corrected.

[Roland Vink]

Don't think so Roland.

270° of focus throw (Zeiss) is only 44% of the 620° of focus throw in the Voigtländer.

No way does the CV have 56% of its focus throw tied-up from 1:4 to 1:1.

Actually, the focus throw is more or less proportional to the magnification, especially for lenses which focus by extension such as the lenses in question. So, the CV will have only about 25% of the focus throw between infinity and 1:4, and 75% between 1:4 - 1:1.

You can see this clearly from the pictures ... when focusing to 5m, the Zeiss has more than twice the focus throw than the CV 125:

[JKoerner007]

I agree about the CRT Nikkor. I love it.

I am zeroing-in on one as we speak

But not the Coastal Optics lens. It has such a short focus throw that it has to be used on a focus rail to stack. I could hardly focus it for single shots because touching it turned it too far, etc. IMO. And while the lens was highly corrected, the cheap case and lack of hood, etc. is not up to snuff. And the hot spot is for me, in a macro lens, really a PITA... a serious mistake.

I owned this lens for years and sold to a buyer in China. And what I liked least about it was that in a forest, with mottled light coming from above, the lens did NOT handle the light well, but tended to blow out the highlights. That I could not tolerate,

It's funny, I had the exact same misgivings about the Coastal Optics lens, not from personal experience, but just by looking at the photos: it looks cheesy, unbefitting of the price tag.

I realize the optics are what we're buying, but hey, package a $4500 primo optic with some class, okay?

so let me know how you like it. It will make you love your CV-125 even more, although it is not as well corrected.

Well, to be honest, absolute, perfect correction ... in the field ... isn't really necessary. The CV is plenty good enough.

What matters to me are 1) sharpness, 2) bokeh, 3) exact color replication, 4) subtle color transition rendering, and 5) versatility.

I am a little more dubious about what the Coastal Optics would bring to the table, and a little more excited about the random "wildcard" potential of the Nikkor-O 55mm f1.2 CRT.

I feel I know the CV 125mm, "like the back of my hand" now ... and completely trust it to do me right in any number of ways.

The Nikkor-O 55mm f1.2 CRT seems to be something that you can never truly get a handle on, but that is good in its own way.

It also has an absolutely outstanding build quality (compared to the other), and really compared to any other lens mentioned here.

It's so well-built, it may outlive civilization as we know it ... 

[JKoerner007]

Actually, the focus throw is more or less proportional to the magnification, especially for lenses which focus by extension such as the lenses in question. So, the CV will have only about 25% of the focus throw between infinity and 1:4, and 75% between 1:4 - 1:1.

You can see this clearly from the pictures ... when focusing to 5m, the Zeiss has more than twice the focus throw than the CV 125:

Actually, you have it exactly backwards

Unlike you, I don't have to rely on 'pictures' or 'imagination' ... I can directly pick-up my own CV 125 ... and measure its focus throw in person

That said, I personally measured the 1:1 to 1:4 focus throw range to be a whopping ~200° of "pure macro dedication" ...

The remaining 420° of focus throw (covering 1:4 to ∞) far exceeds the Zeiss 135mm's 270° covering the same range ... thus underscoring the absolute usefulness of the Voigtländer 125mm f/2.5 Apo Macro

(Note: Anyone here, who actually owns this lens, can confirm.)

[Michael Erlewine]

The Nikkor-O 55mm f1.2 CRT seems to be something that you can never truly get a handle on, but that is good in its own way.

It also has an absolutely outstanding build quality (compared to the other), and really compared to any other lens mentioned here.

It's so well-built, it may outlive civilization as we know it ... 

The CRT Nikkor, despite it's curvature, is probably the sharpest lens I have. And yes, it is like throwing the dice, but not really. I have taken some of my best photos with it.

[JKoerner007]

The CRT Nikkor, despite it's curvature, is probably the sharpest lens I have. And yes, it is like throwing the dice, but not really. I have taken some of my best photos with it.

I have noted all your postings, as well as a multitude of images (yours and others') from this lens ... and I agree ... it is capable of images that no other lens could produce.

Technically-excellent (sharp), when needed, and just a random surprise (often beyond anything hoped) when played with ...

You're about to make my wallet $1000 lighter .. again .. lol

[Michael Erlewine]

I have noted all your postings, as well as a multitude of images (yours and others') from this lens ... and I agree ... it is capable of images that no other lens could produce.

Technically-excellent (sharp), when needed, and just a random surprise (often beyond anything hoped) when played with ...

You're about to make my wallet $1000 lighter .. again .. lol

Before you spring for it, please note. It is only great wide open and it is one of the fastest lenses there are, which means razor-thin DOF, which means you have to use it mounted on your camera, which is mounted on a focus rail. I use it for stacking only.  Perhaps you will find another way to use it, but that is how I have to use it. Be sure to understand this. It is not your normal lens. It is not for outside, but you can find out. I just don't want you to be disappointed.

If you do get a copy, be careful screwing in the lens to the mount, so that it does not extend too far into the camera and break the mirror. It is easily done.

It has no helicoid or way to focus.

[JKoerner007]

Before you spring for it, please note. It is only great wide open and it is one of the fastest lenses there are, which means razor-thin DOF, which means you have to use it mounted on your camera, which is mounted on a focus rail. I use it for stacking only.  Perhaps you will find another way to use it, but that is how I have to use it. Be sure to understand this. It is not your normal lens. It is not for outside, but you can find out. I just don't want you to be disappointed.

If you do get a copy, be careful screwing in the lens to the mount, so that it does not extend too far into the camera and break the mirror. It is easily done.

It has no helicoid or way to focus.

Noted ... and appreciate the insight.

Based on the feedback, I imagine it is either for studio ... or for optimal morning light (on a tripod, focus rail), max moisture/bokeh opportunity.

Hope to share some images within the month 

[Jack Dahlgren]

Before you spring for it, please note. It is only great wide open and it is one of the fastest lenses there are, which means razor-thin DOF, which means you have to use it mounted on your camera, which is mounted on a focus rail. I use it for stacking only.  Perhaps you will find another way to use it, but that is how I have to use it. Be sure to understand this. It is not your normal lens. It is not for outside, but you can find out. I just don't want you to be disappointed.

It has no helicoid or way to focus.

True about fixed focus. But I think it is good to use outside in soft light because it is fast and that makes it easy to handhold. Using it with a tripod outside would be a nightmare. I can see why Michael would not recommend that.

Wide open it has almost no DoF, but it is still good even when stopped down. This is at f/8 I think:
803_0685

Here is one wide open:
803_0681

Not sure, but this might be at f/2
803_0719

With fixed angle of view and distance to subject it limits subject matter to things about 5” across and about the same distance away. If you put on an extender you could get higher magnification.

I find myself using it to find soft renderings - but with elements of sharpness which keep them from just being a colorful blur (Heligon I’m talking to you...)

[Roland Vink]

Actually, you have it exactly backwards

Unlike you, I don't have to rely on 'pictures' or 'imagination' ... I can directly pick-up my own CV 125 ... and measure its focus throw in person

That said, I personally measured the 1:1 to 1:4 focus throw range to be a whopping ~200° of "pure macro dedication" ...

The remaining 420° of focus throw (covering 1:4 to ∞) far exceeds the Zeiss 135mm's 270° covering the same range ... thus underscoring the absolute usefulness of the Voigtländer 125mm f/2.5 Apo Macro

(Note: Anyone here, who actually owns this lens, can confirm.)

Err, no ... the pictures above are clear evidence. The focus throw from infinity to 5m or 3m is clearly much longer with the Zeiss 135/2 than the CV 125. I have no doubt the same continues further along the focus range.

And it's not "imagination", I don't make things up. For lenses which focus purely by extension, the focus throw is directly proportional to the extension which is directly proportional to the magnification. This is clear with older macro lenses such as the AI 55/3.5 micro or 105/4 micro, they don't get to 1:1, but the focus travel required to get from infinity to 1:4 is only half that required for 1:2.

On lenses with floating elements or internal focusing, the relationship breaks down a little, the focal length usually reduces with closer focus distances, so the focus throw and amount of extension required to achieve a given magnification is reduced. The Zeiss 135/2 and CV 125 both have moderate focal length shortening at close range, the Zeiss is closer to 130mm at 1:4 and the CV 125 is around 95mm at 1:1, but the above is still broadly true.

You are saying the CV 125 has 420° focus throw from infinity to 1:4 (will be near 0.7 - 0.75m) and only 200° for the rest of the macro range to 1:1. I don't have this lens but I warrant that those figures are backwards. Or you are measuring something else ...? (the little x2 and x4 markings on the focus ring are not magnification ratios, they indicate exposure compensation required...)

I'm not arguing about the qualities or usefulness of the CV 125, just trying to get some facts straight.