This is how much a new Voigtländer 125mm f/2.5 Apo-Lanthar Costs

[Macro_Cosmos]

I consulted an optics engineer that I know and according to him, the CV Apo-Lanthar lenses aren't truly apochromatic, they are however somewhat close, obviously closer to the Sigma FakePO lenses. The simple logic here is that producing an apochromatic lens with high transmission index is way more expensive than the retail prices of these lenses.

I decided to ask about the Zeiss Apo-Sonnar, which he gave the same conclusion above. The Otus however he called "midrange" apochromatic corrected. The really good, truly apochromatic lenses from Zeiss are well known and extremely expensive. There's also the "sapo" which stands for super apochromatic, he showed me a couple from his collection. I'd love to show them here but he kindly asked me not to. Some truly fascinating lenses that I have never seen, and Google yields practically nothing.

The Otus line is truly optically amazing, but favours CA correction instead of the Zeiss characteristic in colour. I used to like many others think colours are all just bogus and can be replicated in post. I was wrong, it's simple. Correcting for CA requires throttling certain wavelengths of light, making them desaturated. This can be fixed in post to some extent. A truly apochromatic lens however retains such colours as well as adequate correction.

Enjoy hunting!

[richardHaw]

 

[Erik Lund]

Too bad you are not allowed to write about  the lenses you refer to,,,


We have talked a lot about the APO Lanthar over the years, among many threads this one:


http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,14.msg25.html#msg25


And also APO'ish alternatives:


Here is a long search for perfection or near perfection
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,6728.msg108134.html#msg108134


Yes APO is just a marketing hype name in most cases, but for some of us it is a must in some cases or it will take a lot of PP to get a usable image,,, sometimes not even possible,,,

[Michael Erlewine]

Indeed, APO is not a standard, so all kinds of lens are labelled as APO. Within my budget, I collect them, but not to sit them on a shelf, but to use them for photography.

I would like to know the names of the truly-truly APO lenses. Ones we are familiar with must include the UV-Nikkor 105mm, which is beyond my pay grade, but I do know the Coastal Optics 60mm macro. I would agree that the Voigtlander 125mm APO-Lanthar is “somewhat close” to being APO, enough at least for me to use it a lot, but I am aware that it does not compare to the Printing Nikkors, of which I have a few, the 95mm, 105mm, and the 150mm. Of the 150mm Printing Nikkors I have both the common one and the earlier version, which are quite different.

The Zeiss Otus series (include IMO the 135mm) are good enough, IMO, to be called APO and the APO-El Nikkor 105mm is among my most-used lenses. If the super apochromatic lenses are all macro (1:1 and above), even if I could afford them I would not use them much, being a close-up photographer.

If those of you who know would point out what these super APO lenses are, who made them, etc. I would love to study more about them.

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

Oh my, how I love stuff like that, "I saw it and it was soo great, but I cannot talk about it" ;-)

So here a bit about them:

Superachromats are long known and are based on the works of Maximilian Herzberger and his patent(s):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superachromat about him here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Herzberger
He worked for ZEISS, but being Jewish, was forced to leave Germany to the US where he then worked for KODAK.

If someone wants to read about it, here: https://www.osapublishing.org/ao/abstract.cfm?uri=ao-2-6-553

Those Superachromats  are difficult to make, since extremely tight tolerances are needed, otherwise the "super-achromaticity" is lost.
ZEISS made some for Hasselblad, the 5.6/350mm for example and later the advanced 2.8/300mm (one currently for sale in DE for EUR35.000).

PS: if you like to buy a CV Makro Apo Lanthar, buy them directly in Japan, they are much cheaper there...got mine for less than 50% of ebay prices :-)

[Michael Erlewine]

Oh my, how I love stuff like that, "I saw it and it was soo great, but I cannot talk about it" ;-)

So here a bit about them:

Superachromats are long known and are based on the works of Maximilian Herzberger and his patent(s):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superachromat about him here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Herzberger
He worked for ZEISS, but being Jewish, was forced to leave Germany to the US where he then worked for KODAK.

If someone wants to read about it, here: https://www.osapublishing.org/ao/abstract.cfm?uri=ao-2-6-553

Those Superachromats  are difficult to make, since extremely tight tolerances are needed, otherwise the "super-achromaticity" is lost.
ZEISS made some for Hasselblad the 5.6/350mm for example.

Thanks Klaus: Can you give proper names and descriptions or links as to some of these super apochromatic lenses, so I could start to follow them. You know what lenses I have; what should I be looking for in this regard. Thanks.

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

Thanks Klaus: Can you give proper names and descriptions or links as to some of these super apochromatic lenses, so I could start to follow them. You know what lenses I have; what should I be looking for in this regard. Thanks.

If you plug in "Hasselblad Superachromat" in ebay search, you'll find quite a few. Those are all Tele-Lenses, not optimized and suitable for macro use, I fear (as I know your interest and work Michael). And Hasselblad lenses are a PITA to use (been there, done that with the Habla UV-Sonnar 105mm)

[Michael Erlewine]

If you plug in "Hasselblad Superachromat" in ebay search, you'll find quite a few. Those are all Tele-Lenses, not optimized and suitable for macro use, I fear (as I know your interest and work Michael). And Hasselblad lenses are a PITA to use (been there, done that with the Habla UV-Sonnar 105mm)

There must be other super-APO-chromatic lenses that would be more approachable.

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

There must be other super-APO-chromatic lenses that would be more approachable.

Haven't found any so far...

[Danulon]

Oh my, how I love stuff like that, "I saw it and it was soo great, but I cannot talk about it" ;-)(...)

Especially if the thread starter chooses to post anonymously on this forum. There is a reason why I registered with my real name and later on changed it. Whenever I see one of these anonymous guys here I wonder what they have to hide... definitely not trust inspiring.

[JJChan]

Michael I have heard the Takumar Ultra-Achromat 85mm f4 for M42 is a pretty special lens. I think Andrea has got one.

Macro-Cosmos - every so often you get lucky - there have been a handful of Apo-Lanthars 125mm on Gumtree in Oz. A Canon EF mount was for sale in Melb for $1100 for about 3 months without takers. There was a Nikon mount sold for about A$1600. It's a matter of keeping an eye on it.

As Dr Klause writes, they are available in Japan and far more reasonably priced than HKG or Singapore. They are still going up in price despite the Milvus 135mm....

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

Michael I have heard the Takumar Ultra-Achromat 85mm f4 for M42 is a pretty special lens. I think Andrea has got one.

Macro-Cosmos - every so often you get lucky - there have been a handful of Apo-Lanthars 125mm on Gumtree in Oz. A Canon EF mount was for sale in Melb for $1100 for about 3 months without takers. There was a Nikon mount sold for about A$1600. It's a matter of keeping an eye on it.

As Dr Klause writes, they are available in Japan and far more reasonably priced than HKG or Singapore. They are still going up in price despite the Milvus 135mm....

I have the Ultra-Achromatic Takumar 85mm, and as much as I like it, an uncoated 70s lens cannot fulfil Micheasl expectations. It is great for UV though and has no noticeable CA.

[Macro_Cosmos]

Indeed, APO is not a standard, so all kinds of lens are labelled as APO. Within my budget, I collect them, but not to sit them on a shelf, but to use them for photography.

I would like to know the names of the truly-truly APO lenses. Ones we are familiar with must include the UV-Nikkor 105mm, which is beyond my pay grade, but I do know the Coastal Optics 60mm macro. I would agree that the Voigtlander 125mm APO-Lanthar is “somewhat close” to being APO, enough at least for me to use it a lot, but I am aware that it does not compare to the Printing Nikkors, of which I have a few, the 95mm, 105mm, and the 150mm. Of the 150mm Printing Nikkors I have both the common one and the earlier version, which are quite different.

The Zeiss Otus series (include IMO the 135mm) are good enough, IMO, to be called APO and the APO-El Nikkor 105mm is among my most-used lenses. If the super apochromatic lenses are all macro (1:1 and above), even if I could afford them I would not use them much, being a close-up photographer.

If those of you who know would point out what these super APO lenses are, who made them, etc. I would love to study more about them.

The ones you've included are on my list of "truly apochromatic lenses" as well. There's also the Zeiss sapo lenses, Ultra-micro-nikkors, and the entire apo-El Nikkor lenses. Really nice stuff. There's a lot of really good Rodenstock, Schneider, and some Leica lenses that are also highly apochromatic. Super APO refers to s-apo lenses, exotic and hard to find. There's also sCCD and sCMOS cameras, S here usually refers to either scientific or super. Really conventional names, but expect to pay an extra zero to get close to them. Lots of the extremely high end industrial lenses and microscope objectives are also apo-corrected, some don't have the letters in their names. The CO 60mm you have despite its small shortcomings is one supreme piece of glass. I wish I could get one as well

Correction: S-apo is a notation he likes to use, to define the high end apochromatic lenses. It turns out that some of the lenses he showed me are under the label of SPlanar. These have a ridiculous pricetag, just like the superchromats: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hasselblad-S-Planar-T-C-120mm-F5-6-Medium-Format-Camera-Zeiss-Lens-Near-Mint/323035729983?hash=item4b366e103f:g:fZAAAOSwLlVam5GF

Oh my, how I love stuff like that, "I saw it and it was soo great, but I cannot talk about it" ;-)

So here a bit about them:

Superachromats are long known and are based on the works of Maximilian Herzberger and his patent(s):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superachromat about him here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Herzberger
He worked for ZEISS, but being Jewish, was forced to leave Germany to the US where he then worked for KODAK.

If someone wants to read about it, here: https://www.osapublishing.org/ao/abstract.cfm?uri=ao-2-6-553

Those Superachromats  are difficult to make, since extremely tight tolerances are needed, otherwise the "super-achromaticity" is lost.
ZEISS made some for Hasselblad, the 5.6/350mm for example and later the advanced 2.8/300mm (one currently for sale in DE for EUR35.000).

PS: if you like to buy a CV Makro Apo Lanthar, buy them directly in Japan, they are much cheaper there...got mine for less than 50% of ebay prices :-)

Yeah, unfortunately. I'd love to show them, but he asked me not to. I did google all of them, yielded absolutely no results, so you'd have to take my word on it. Kodak is also an interesting company, they are seemingly "bankrupt"... but being the frontiers of CCD cameras and holding almost a natural monopoly on them... the amount of money they get paid each year is quite staggering. Nice advice on the CV 125mm I do have it on a list of "must buy" when I eventually visit Japan, along with many other exotic/fun things that can't be had in kangaroo land.

Especially if the thread starter chooses to post anonymously on this forum. There is a reason why I registered with my real name and later on changed it. Whenever I see one of these anonymous guys here I wonder what they have to hide... definitely not trust inspiring.

Ehhhh, why do you dislike anonymity? Actually, I'm not anonymous. My screen name "Macro Cosmos" can also be found on flickr and instagram, which links to my real identity.
So yeah, before making such an allegation, it would be a great idea to think of the reasons. The "I wonder what they have to hide" is a notion that really makes me cringe. "If you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide", right? I'm sure you know who said it, and I'm sure most people knows what such lines of reasoning ultimately leads to. I'm not angry or anything, I'm just here to share my thoughts and the knowledge I gained from people who I consider teachers. Screen name of not doesn't reflect on the validity of statements. My reason for using a screen name is basically because my name is too generic, and my full name is a tongue twister. The screen name sounds way better. Malicious? No.

My friend who has helped me a lot with my various photographic assignments asked me to not share them, no amount of doubting will make me concede. He has actually been the victim of IP fraud, he buys and exchanges those lenses to study on, so I can totally see the reason and respect his decision. Oh... and aren't you anonymously posting?

Michael I have heard the Takumar Ultra-Achromat 85mm f4 for M42 is a pretty special lens. I think Andrea has got one.

Macro-Cosmos - every so often you get lucky - there have been a handful of Apo-Lanthars 125mm on Gumtree in Oz. A Canon EF mount was for sale in Melb for $1100 for about 3 months without takers. There was a Nikon mount sold for about A$1600. It's a matter of keeping an eye on it.

As Dr Klause writes, they are available in Japan and far more reasonably priced than HKG or Singapore. They are still going up in price despite the Milvus 135mm....

Yeah, you are right here. I've seen those circulating around. To be honest, I can't justify paying $1600 for it. I paid $1000 for my 85mm pc-e, $950 for my 24mm pc-e (shift locking mechanism is broken but I put some nylon screws into a panorama rail which I use anyway to provide support for the lens), I also paid $160 for an ultra-micro-nikkor, which I flipped for $800. There's lots of great deals to be had. Japan's used camera stores are definitely a treasure box to me. I'm still desperately trying to get access to the lab equipment dumpsters of my university, I want some precision equipment that has been replaced/damaged. Sick of hunting them down on fleabay.

[Macro_Cosmos]

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cameraphotosupplyonline.com%2Fthumbs%2F152298327901_1.jpg&f=1

Here's an S-biogon.

There's also a lot of S-Planar and 2 S-Distagon lenses I saw. Can't find any information on them.

S-orthaplanar:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-S-Orthoplanar-60-4-Macro-Camera-Lens-M42-Screw-Mount-/301262643261
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2655%2F3867527742_a40cbde0c4.jpg&f=1
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Zeiss-Opton-S-Orthoplanar-5-6-105mm-/261570807187
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/SOP105.jpg
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BB%E3%83%84%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B9%E3%81%AE%E3%83%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BA%E8%A3%BD%E5%93%81%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7

There's lots of these S-(insert optical setup here type of lenses. Fascinating, I'd love to be able to test one some day.

[JKoerner007]

As Dr Klause writes, they are available in Japan and far more reasonably priced than HKG or Singapore. They are still going up in price despite the Milvus 135mm....

The Zeiss Milvus/Apo Sonnar f/2 (same lens, different casing) is a terrific lens, in some ways, but can in no way replace the Voigtländer 125mm f/2.5.

I bought and sold the Zeiss 135 f/2 Apo Sonnar, twice, because (when all is said and done) it is almost useless as a nature lens compared to the Voigtländer 125mm.

The CV 125 has a closer focusing distance, it has 4x the reproduction ratio, it is lighter, it has more than twice the focus throw, and (ultimately, IMO) it produces better, more pleasing images.

I love the images my CV 125 produces ...
I did not 'love' the images I got from the Zeiss Apo Sonnar (aka: Milvus 135).

Yes, the Zeiss is sharp, very sharp, but it over-saturates the colors in my opinion, and its extreme sharpness + almost harsh, over-saturated colors were not 'beautiful,' imo.
It also renders colors a little on the warm side, for my taste.

By contrast, the CV 125 renders colors almost perfectly. There is a "naturalness" to the images produced by the CV 125.
The colors are smooth, beautiful, and it is sharp enough to stand out as excellent, without being so sharp, and so saturated, as to look harsh and unnatural.

I could never justify bringing the Zeiss APO Sonnar with me on a nature hike: too heavy, too limited in what it can do.

By contrast, I would never think about going on a nature hike without the CV 125.
It can do anything the Zeiss Apo Sonnar can do (as well or better, IMO), and there are dozens of field applications the CV 125 can do ... that the Apo Sonnar/Milvus cannot do.