Nikon D850 previews, commentary - first reviews

[Frode]

I got the D850 on Friday and tested it in figure skating photography using 300/4 PF, 70-200 FL and 200/2 II. I am left with mixed feelings.

The good: images are stunningly detailed. The touchscreen functionality is much more general than in the D5 and works well. Tolerably good images in artificial light at ISO 6400 (with the D810 I was happy until ISO 2000). (Unrelated to figure skating photography: When tested with a stationary subject, he 300 PF hand held in quiet mode give visibly sharper images at 1/50s (with EFCS on) than in S mode: it seems the slower rise of the mirror and the electronic first curtain now are available for hand held shooting and work brilliantly in Q/Qc modes. )

The surprise: Snapbridge worked basically as one would expect if one hadn’t read all the bad reports of v. 1.0. I was able to connect to my iPhone 6 without problems and automatic transfer of small jpgs worked fine as long as the camera was set to record both raw and jpg. I didn’t try full size image transfer. Also the camera remote control with exposure adjustments worked as well as sending manually selected images. Stopping automatic transfer didn’t work immediately - it took hours to clear the buffer of images in the queue it seems and I would appreciate a refinement where automatic transfer is suspended immediately so I can speed up the transfer of priority images selected manually.

The not so good: Well, sometimes the camera would hesitate to focus on the skater. When I lost my patience I lifted my thumb from AF-ON and pressed it again then it would focus. The shots that the camera would take were generally in focus and highly detailed. However, the hesitations happened every once in a while. Sometimes the camera would not respond to controls in image review (playback). It would take some time before it got ”online” again. I was mostly using D25 and group-area AF. I think the AF hesitation mostly was in dynamic area mode.

I have some theories/speculation. I suspect either the camera is busy processing the rather large files and this causes bottlenecks / delays in AF processing, or there may be a firmware bug. Switching back and forth between the two cameras left the impression that one was much more responsive than the other.

I am a little disappointed. I understand that a 45MP camera isn’t likely to be as fast as a 20MP one especially when the latter is purpose-made for action and more expensive. However I expected the responsivity to be closer. I have no complaints about AF accuracy - after auto fine tuning all my lenses seemed to focus where they needed to (with excellent detail). It’s just that I am used to immediate response when I request the camera to do something and this behaviour was unexpected.

I’ll talk to Nikon about this when I get the opportunity and when I have more experience with the camera.

Interesting experience.

I tried a D850 during a Golden eagle «session» a couple of weeks ago (good light) and I must say that the AF performance was really impressive! It didn’t have any problems regarding BIF- situations. In fact, I don’t think my D4s would do any better in those situations. I don’t think I had any out of focus pictures during BIF- situations.

Amazing quality of the files!

Must say that I’m considering a D850, but not if your experience turns out to be a general «problem».

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Must say that I’m considering a D850, but not if your experience turns out to be a general «problem».

Well, I might not have noticed anything if I weren't used to the D5. Any new camera takes some getting used to before knowing how to operate it in an optimal way.

[Frank Fremerey]

I got the D850 on Friday and tested it in figure skating photography using 300/4 PF, 70-200 FL and 200/2 II. I am left with mixed feelings.

The good: images are stunningly detailed. The touchscreen functionality is much more general than in the D5 and works well. Tolerably good images in artificial light at ISO 6400 (with the D810 I was happy until ISO 2000). (Unrelated to figure skating photography: When tested with a stationary subject, he 300 PF hand held in quiet mode give visibly sharper images at 1/50s (with EFCS on) than in S mode: it seems the slower rise of the mirror and the electronic first curtain now are available for hand held shooting and work brilliantly in Q/Qc modes. )

The surprise: Snapbridge worked basically as one would expect if one hadn’t read all the bad reports of v. 1.0. I was able to connect to my iPhone 6 without problems and automatic transfer of small jpgs worked fine as long as the camera was set to record both raw and jpg. I didn’t try full size image transfer. Also the camera remote control with exposure adjustments worked as well as sending manually selected images. Stopping automatic transfer didn’t work immediately - it took hours to clear the buffer of images in the queue it seems and I would appreciate a refinement where automatic transfer is suspended immediately so I can speed up the transfer of priority images selected manually.

The not so good: Well, sometimes the camera would hesitate to focus on the skater. When I lost my patience I lifted my thumb from AF-ON and pressed it again then it would focus. The shots that the camera would take were generally in focus and highly detailed. However, the hesitations happened every once in a while. Sometimes the camera would not respond to controls in image review (playback). It would take some time before it got ”online” again. I was mostly using D25 and group-area AF. I think the AF hesitation mostly was in dynamic area mode.

I have some theories/speculation. I suspect either the camera is busy processing the rather large files and this causes bottlenecks / delays in AF processing, or there may be a firmware bug. Switching back and forth between the two cameras left the impression that one was much more responsive than the other.

I am a little disappointed. I understand that a 45MP camera isn’t likely to be as fast as a 20MP one especially when the latter is purpose-made for action and more expensive. However I expected the responsivity to be closer. I have no complaints about AF accuracy - after auto fine tuning all my lenses seemed to focus where they needed to (with excellent detail). It’s just that I am used to immediate response when I request the camera to do something and this behaviour was unexpected.

I’ll talk to Nikon about this when I get the opportunity and when I have more experience with the camera.

Try the same in Offline mode.

I switched Offline mode on on day one and never turned back: I guess the background-tasks are not well managed in current firmware.

No hiccups sind 7 September and I use her every day.

d9 AF is great
3D Af in certain situations, like picking a person from the crowd with a fast prime.
Auto AF if I want to have focus on the nearest object

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Try the same in Offline mode.

Thanks for the tip.

I was trying to reproduce the slight delay in AF that I experienced at the skating event at home and wasn't able to detect any perceptible delay or AF performance issue indoors in low light.  I think it's not something that will show up in normal day-to-day shooting but in intense circumstances. I'll comment on it again when I am shooting some action later on.

d9 AF is great

D9 is indeed a great AF mode, it's the mode I use most commonly with the D5. In figure skating I tend to congregate to D25 as the movement is sufficiently unpredictable that I can find it hard to hold the 9-point area on the subject and D25 helps with that a bit. At longer distances I use group area AF (activated using the lens buttons). I find it to be the fastest in low light and it can focus in situations where the light is very low whereas at some point dynamic area AF can pause to think for a bit (low light such as ISO 25600, f/2.8, 1/500s). If the movement is more casual and not terribly fast or unpredictable, I find D9 to perform the best under the most common circumstances. It is specific enough to use to focus on the eye of the subject but permits a little bit of wiggle in holding the AF point. I think D9 has given me the best percentages of in-focus shots in event photography with the D5.

3D Af in certain situations, like picking a person from the crowd with a fast prime.

Right, I agree this is a good application.

Auto AF if I want to have focus on the nearest object

Yes. I use Auto area for pairs and ice dance if I stop down to f/4 it is precise enough; if I shoot at f/2.8 or faster then I usually find that group area allows me to be more specific.

[bobfriedman]

The not so good: Well, sometimes the camera would hesitate to focus on the skater. When I lost my patience I lifted my thumb from AF-ON and pressed it again then it would focus. The shots that the camera would take were generally in focus and highly detailed. However, the hesitations happened every once in a while. Sometimes the camera would not respond to controls in image review (playback). It would take some time before it got ”online” again. I was mostly using D25 and group-area AF. I think the AF hesitation mostly was in dynamic area mode.

was the camera in AF-S instead of AF-C  ?

[Ilkka Nissilä]

AF-C.

[Frank Fremerey]

What I cannot understand is that an important product like the D850 plus accessoires is not available for nearly 4 months now. Any insight into what might be the problem?

[Ilkka Nissilä]

What I cannot understand is that an important product like the D850 plus accessoires is not available for nearly 4 months now. Any insight into what might be the problem?

It was the same with the D800. It's a sign of a successful product when demand continues to exceed expectations for some time.

Nikon brought out some products in 2016 which got a cold shower from the customers. I guess it's safe to plan the production of new products conservatively if you don't have a clear idea of whether it will be received favorably.  At least in the European market the D850 is priced higher than the D810 was; the estimation of how many people will tolerate the higher price level must be difficult.

[chambeshi]

What I cannot understand is that an important product like the D850 plus accessoires is not available for nearly 4 months now. Any insight into what might be the problem?

Commenting on NR to the post 'Hercules Rising', Thom Hogan suggested the lower yield with the D850 sensor is to blame'
to Quote: "Thom Hogan • 5 days ago
Look, on a camera like the D8xx, the development is somewhat predictive. Since it would use the D5/D500 stuff, the basic body/controls would have had a full year to be realized by Jan 2017. That part's easy. Thus, mules of the new body would have been ready in late 2016, early 2017.

The sensor is the tougher part. You really need to lock that down at least six months prior to launch, as you need to verify it is what you think it is, and you need a three-month window to get production grade samples out and understand your yield.

Nikon appears to have wanted to launch the D850 in July 2017 with the 100th anniversary. Launch, as in announce in July, ship in August. That would have required the new sensor to be locked back around the start of the year. Which brings all these mentioned dates into play for prototypes.

It's clear that the D850 didn't launch as expected. I suspect that sensor yield has played a part in that delay and the lowish volume of units that have hit the stores. At least that's what I hear from my sources."

"Again, to my knowledge the D850 sensor is done on the old Toshiba fab now owned by Sony. Also, there are rumors that Sony warned Nikon about possible yield issues, though I've not gotten any details about why."

[Ilkka Nissilä]

Scarcity of the MB-D18 grip cannot be blamed on sensor yield. My guess is still that Nikon expected it not to sell well.

[Frank Fremerey]

About the MB-D18 I heared that the production units were faulty and had to be redesigned and production relaunched.

I am happy I got my camera on day one and hope I will get my battery pack in January. I already have two EN EL 18 plus charger by Patona

[Ilkka Nissilä]

In Finland the grip was available immediately after launch but I skipped since I could not get the camera then. Now I have the camera but there is a few weeks of waiting period for the grip.

[Ron Scubadiver]

Well, I might not have noticed anything if I weren't used to the D5. Any new camera takes some getting used to before knowing how to operate it in an optimal way.

The image of the young skater in blue is dreamy.

Adorama just sent me an email that my D850 has shipped.  It's only 12 days since I ordered it.  The backlogs must be shrinking.  I had no expectation of getting it before the new year.  Which far flung place should I take it too?  Any suggestions?

[chris dees]

I got mine in 10 days as well (this Tuesday) but no sign of the grip (I think I'm going after a 3rd party one with these prices).

[Frank Fremerey]

The image of the young skater in blue is dreamy.

Adorama just sent me an email that my D850 has shipped.  It's only 12 days since I ordered it.  The backlogs must be shrinking.  I had no expectation of getting it before the new year.  Which far flung place should I take it too?  Any suggestions?

the most significant bonus of the D850 is the color rendition at ISO64. Sheer unbelievable. I would go to Guancaste National Park in Costa Rica, I guess less that  two hours  flight from Houston. Take on the lichens with a tripod!!!