Is this a serious offer????

[David H. Hartman]

There should be diffraction stars in her eyes so I could have an easy cheat.

[charlie]

Agree.  It's not a valid comparison.  Too much difference between the shots.  Great care would have to be taken to make valid camera rendering comparisons with a live model.  That's why test comparisons such as DPReview's so often use boring sets composed of inanimate objects.
There is another factor:  If the tester's familiarity is with Nikon, then the software settings and the processing knowledge/experience of the tester used is likely going to be pre-optimized for Nikon.  It might take an extraordinary amount of work to optimize for Canon.

The idea was to see the difference in skin tone color & detail as well as comparing the general rendering and 3 dimensionality between the cameras. The inanimate object tests wouldn't really reveal much in this regard. It was an informal test mostly for my curiosity as I had both cameras on hand (D800/5dMkIII). Aside from matching slight exposure differences, post processing was the same on both images, white balance set from the same place. 

Perhaps a more valid comparison:

 

[MFloyd]

Charlie, you have to change / adapt your lighting. You have to get rid of / attenuate the shadow from the nose on the left cheek

[MFloyd]

.....
As a marketing professional I show how marketing tactics work. People who fall victim to these tactics defend them who bullshit them not the one who helps them free their minds by uncovering the tactics.
.....

Are you a marketing professional ?

[simsurace]

Nikon is bullshitting you. Fact.
You defend them. Fact.
You feel that I have no right to say it. Fact.
You feel hurt because I revealed you are being bullshitted. Fact.

Frank, I think you are putting the proverbial horse before the cart (haven't we talked about horses already?).
First, you have to provide some evidence for the hypothesis that Nikon USA's gray market policy is not being enforced (above bold-faced statement).
After that, we may talk about interpretations or possible reasons (marketing strategies etc.)
So far, I have not seen any evidence for the hypothesis in question, and I find it appropriate that people object to your conclusions.
Especially if you have experience with marketing yourself, you have to be open to the possibility that your above-average familiarity with the subject is yielding an above-average rate of false alarms (i.e. you smell marketing BS, but it is in fact a real policy with enforceable consequences).
Jumping straight to conclusions (i.e. I smell marketing BS, therefore it must be marketing BS) will therefore net you a high rate of false conclusions.

[Frank Fremerey]

Thank you Simone.

Obviously Nikon USA wants to scare people of buying from any source but them.

Factually they tell the story that they will not service items obtained through other channels OR, difficult to tell, they tell the story AND enforce this policy.

Reading through the social media echo above no clear picture emerges.

It could be enforcement or just enough enforcement to make the story believable or it could be paid for buzz. Not easy to tell in these times. Possibly a mix of all that.


Depending on your position on fair market practices this can be considered "legitimate market defense" as some of the people here, who aggressively defend this policy, seem to think OR it can be considered a "customer unfriendly policy" as me and some other people here seem to think.


In my book fair market practice is to create extra value for extra money, like:

"Buy from Nikon USA and you get the following premium:
-- faster and cheaper service
-- sponsored rentals
-- free check & clean every year
All this we do not provide to people who do not buy genuine Nikon USA stuff"


I personally pay extra pemium prices at my bricks & mortars, because I want to see them survive with their cellars full of equipment I can buy same day and not wait until someone ships from somewhere (for cheaper).

Everybody may buy wherever they want and can afford. I would never tell anyone what to do or not do. That is false conclusion.



Simone. One last word: I consider it BS if they tell the story as well as if they tell the story and enforce the no-service-policy.

I am very happy with Nikon Germany / Nikon Europe. They are much better in these respects.

[MFloyd]

...
In my book fair market practice is to create extra value for extra money, like:
...
I personally pay extra pemium prices at my bricks & mortars, because I want to see them survive with their cellars full of equipment I can buy same day and not wait until someone ships from somewhere (for cheaper).

...

(1) your book: any reference, title, publisher ?

(2) you are favoring your local "brick & mortar" shops; nevertheless, you skim US retailers for a cheaper bargain ??

[tommiejeep]

Sorry Andrea, I'll stay one topic from now on 
Tom

[charlie]

Charlie, you have to change / adapt your lighting. You have to get rid of / attenuate the shadow from the nose on the left cheek

It seems my text and the color checker didn't give away that these are test images.
When the model turns a bit towards/away from the light, or lifts/lowers her chin, the shadows follow suit.
Not necessary to change/adapt the light.

[MFloyd]

It seems my text and the color checker didn't give away that these are test images.
When the model turns a bit towards/away from the light, or lifts/lowers her chin, the shadows follow suit.
Not necessary to change/adapt the light.

It's your call ....

Pictures under #108 have no color checker, but I guess those were test pictures as well ...

[charlie]

It's your call ....

Pictures under #108 have no color checker, but I guess those were test pictures as well ...

You are right, Mr Floyd.

[pluton]

The skin color is more saturated in the Nikon shot, as is the color chart.  Should the color saturation have been matched between the two as part of the test?

[David H. Hartman]

What is all this about Nikon v. Canon. What fool started this? I though this thread was about <a topic I'm sworn not to comment on but you can add the topic here>.

Dave

Page 10 coming soon...

[charlie]

The skin color is more saturated in the Nikon shot, as is the color chart.  Should the color saturation have been matched between the two as part of the test?

How do you know which photographs are from the Nikon?

Post #108 I was trying to get both photos to match. They were processed with the same settings though I changed the contrast and saturation of the NEF file to better match that of the 5DmkIII CR2 file.

Post #121 I was comparing images straight out of the cameras with no adjustments other than matching exposure and white balance to the same square on the color checker. 

These are screen captures from Capture One resized and converted to sRGB and they've lost a bit of detail in the process so they're probably not a 100% accurate replication of what I'm seeing when comparing the raw files in Capture One.

Looking at a NEF files by themselves I don't think I'd come to the conclusion that they are lacking in richness though when comparing them to the Canon I found the CR2 files to have consistently richer skin tones, even when the NEF/CR2 files were matched to one another in saturation, exposure, etc.

[charlie]

What is all this about Nikon v. Canon. What fool started this? I though this thread was about <a topic I'm sworn not to comment on but you can add the topic here>.

You brought up the Nikon v Canon thing on the same day I happened to be doing a comparison, how could I not share my findings? Apparently Jack was doing some comparing as well.

Anyway, I think the original thread had run its course so perhaps it was best to change the topic