24 mm and 135 mm MF AI-S lens where to look for

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

I second what Bjørn has noted above. I have numerous MF Nikon lenses and have purchased the majority from the Fred Miranda site (Fredmiranda.com) as the purchase experience is "safer" than though the Bay, etc. Also have a look at KEH.com - another reputable retailer.

Of course I fully agree that the Fred Miranda site is eminently reputable as is KEH, but I became a little curious when you seem to suggest that "Bay" (eBay) provides a less safe purchase experience. I have made many purchases through eBay, I have picked Excellent or Near Mint manual Nikkors, and I have never been disappointed let alone exposed to any form of fraud. What did you mean by your statement, have you had bad experiences?

[Bjørn Rørslett]

Yes, we can agree there.

The change of aperture construction had also to do with the way aberrations manifested themselves. Nikon did a lot of research and experiment with their designs to make them not optically "better", but also more pleasing to the eye.

Most people doing extensive business on eBay have experienced the occasional bad apple amongst the sellers. I have met scamming attempts but think they are more infrequent now and eBay buyer protection concurrently has improved. If in doubt pay with credit cards so if you have been had, you can ask the credit company to engage in the sale. The last 12 months I have had a handful of eBay interventions on my behalf and no money has been lost although compensations some times arrive slowly.

I have only good experiences with KEH over the years, but their prices tend to be pretty high on many items and there is often excessively prices on shipping. Thus KEH is the place to go mainly for higher-priced gear think stuff that is expensive everywhere and one wants to cut risks of doing a bad purchase.

[jhinkey]

Bjørn, would you say that the 105mm 2.5 is optically superior to the 135mm 2.8 AI/AIS? If so, would that also apply to the 135mm 3.5 AI/AIS?

I've, like many others I'm sure, owned (single) copies of the 105/2.5 AI, 135/3.5 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, and 135/2 AIS.  Of these, the 135/2.8 AIS was the weakest by a significant margin for sharpness contrast, etc.  Hence the 105/2.5, 135/3.5, and 135/2 AIS were kept on (though the 135/3.5 was eventually sold and replaced by the 135/3.4 APO Telyt, it was a very very good lens).

I would say in order of overall optical goodness of the three lenses you mentioned would be:
105/2.5 > 135/3.5 >> 135/2.8 (i.e., the 105/2.5 being the better of the three).

My 2 c.

- J

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

I've, like many others I'm sure, owned (single) copies of the 105/2.5 AI, 135/3.5 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, and 135/2 AIS.  Of these, the 135/2.8 AIS was the weakest by a significant margin for sharpness contrast, etc.  Hence the 105/2.5, 135/3.5, and 135/2 AIS were kept on (though the 135/3.5 was eventually sold and replaced by the 135/3.4 APO Telyt, it was a very very good lens).

I would say in order of overall optical goodness of the three lenses you mentioned would be:
105/2.5 > 135/3.5 >> 135/2.8 (i.e., the 105/2.5 being the better of the three).

My 2 c.

- J

Thank you, jhinkey. I own the 135mm 2.8 AI - which I suppose is optically the same as the AIS version - and it definitely is the least brilliant among my MF Nikkors. Hence, I recently ordered (through eBay) a 135mm 3.5 AIS in the expectation that it will provide a visibly better optical performance.

[paul_k]

@ Hans

At the moment there are several 2.5/105mm's offered on Marktplaats

There's an Nikkormat FtN for sale with a 28, 50 and 2.5/105mm for sale, considering the body mentioned very likely to be pre A-i lenses
Similarly there is a 2.5/105mm (not clear whether it's the Gauss or Sonnar version) for sale since May 7th no one apparently has made a bid on yet
There's also a 1.8/105mm for sale, but that version does not have the near mythical reputation of the 2.5

There also a a pre AI 2.5/105 for sale (for Eur 90 !!) at a classical camera store in Rotterdam, but the seller himself mentions it shows signs of regular use

That said, I personally never liked the 2.5/105mm I bought in the late 70's together with my F2AS (I think it was a Gauss version).
Probably my fault, as I primarily used it as a low light short tele, usually wide open with shutterspeeds of around 1/60th
Which as a rule resulted in blurry images due to camera shake, and after a while I traded it in for a 2/85mm Ais.
Not a brilliant performer, but a good/practical workhorse lens for the low light shooting I used it for

There also are several 24mm's for sale, even a 2.8/24mm Ais for Eur 129, but they all appear to be more modern (not preAi or N-C) versions and might not be what you're looking for

HTH

[jhinkey]

Thank you, jhinkey. I own the 135mm 2.8 AI - which I suppose is optically the same as the AIS version - and it definitely is the least brilliant among my MF Nikkors. Hence, I recently ordered (through eBay) a 135mm 3.5 AIS in the expectation that it will provide a visibly better optical performance.

Yes, my 135/3.5 was pretty darned good for sharpness on my D800, but its age was showing due to low contrast.  The 135/3.4 is way better in this regard.

[Akira]

Hi Arika,
I just now see you post, we must have cross posted I suppose
What do you mean by NC versions?
Sorry I ask but I'm not well known on these terms 

Hans, sorry for my belated response.  As explained by Bjørn, "N" means that the optics of the lens consists of nine elements.  The early Nikkor lenses employed the naming system based on the mixture of the Latin and Greek numbers (nona, in this case).

[John Geerts]

I've, like many others I'm sure, owned (single) copies of the 105/2.5 AI, 135/3.5 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, and 135/2 AIS.  Of these, the 135/2.8 AIS was the weakest by a significant margin for sharpness contrast, etc.  Hence the 105/2.5, 135/3.5, and 135/2 AIS were kept on (though the 135/3.5 was eventually sold and replaced by the 135/3.4 APO Telyt, it was a very very good lens).

I would say in order of overall optical goodness of the three lenses you mentioned would be:
105/2.5 > 135/3.5 >> 135/2.8 (i.e., the 105/2.5 being the better of the three).

My 2 c.

- J

The suggestion is made the 135/2.8 is a bad lens, which it isn't.  It is a great lens, and very compact !  Of course it is a little bit less sharper (if that is the only goal) than a brilliant lens like the 105/2.5  but it has it's own merits, what Bjørn also indicated.   I like the lens for back up, because it is easy to take with you if you need some tele-work.

At f/4 onwards it's is pretty sharp, and the bokeh is actually very good at f/2.8. The bit of 'softness' wide open works great for portraits. 

[Øivind Tøien]

Of course I fully agree that the Fred Miranda site is eminently reputable as is KEH, but I became a little curious when you seem to suggest that "Bay" (eBay) provides a less safe purchase experience. I have made many purchases through eBay, I have picked Excellent or Near Mint manual Nikkors, and I have never been disappointed let alone exposed to any form of fraud. What did you mean by your statement, have you had bad experiences?

Ebay can be so many things, one just have to do the homework on checking out reputation of the seller. Any problematic situation I have encountered was resolved without problems, refund given in a timely manner. Several of my ebay purchases have ended up with great deals from Roberts (a US photo store who also sells on ebay). They were really nice to deal with on the phone when I had problems with an asymmetrical aperture of a 200/4 AIS; they went though and visually inspected aperture on all their samples to get me the best one.

One thing to consider regarding which version to get is also if one plans to chip the lens, and if so if it will be used on one of the 3000 or 5000 series bodies (or the recently announced D7500). Then it is best to go for the AIS versions as the AI version and earlier will not provide linear aperture when controlled from the camera body.

I have the 135mm f/2.8 AIS, and there is not anything to complain about with respect to performance. I include an example posted here before, on the AW1 via the FT-1 adapter. The AW1 has a higher pixel density than the D800. Compared to the 105mm f/2.5 which I also have, it has different characteristic with respect to background rendering, so their use is complementary. However if I had to choose which one to get first it is hard to get around the 105mm f/2.5.



135 mm f/2.8 AIS (chipped) @ f/6.3 on NIKON 1 AW1,  1/1250, ISO 400.

[John Geerts]

Never had any problems with Ebay. The seller-system of Ebay combined with the guarantees with Pay Pal  works very good.

A recent example with the 135/2.8  Ai  on the D800E  @ 2.8

[Fons Baerken]

Df  135mm f/2.8 ai

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

Df  135mm f/2.8 ai

This resembles what I know my 135mm 2.8 AI to be capable of.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

I have the 135mm f/2.8 AIS, and there is not anything to complain about with respect to performance. I include an example posted here before, on the AW1 via the FT-1 adapter. The AW1 has a higher pixel density than the D800. Compared to the 105mm f/2.5 which I also have, it has different characteristic with respect to background rendering, so their use is complementary. However if I had to choose which one to get first it is hard to get around the 105mm f/2.5.



135 mm f/2.8 AIS (chipped) @ f/6.3 on NIKON 1 AW1,  1/1250, ISO 400.

Yes, that is good.

It would be interesting to see an example at max aperture 2.8 which is the acid test for any fast lens. In my experience, the Nikkor 135mm 2.8 AI is not "bad" in any way, but it lacks that brilliance of others in the same series.

[John Geerts]

Yes, that is good.

It would be interesting to see an example at max aperture 2.8 which is the acid test for any fast lens. In my experience, the Nikkor 135mm 2.8 AI is not "bad" in any way, but it lacks that brilliance of others in the same series.

The photo I posted is at f/2.8

[Tri-x]

WoW, lot of replies.
Thanks fot that. I have a lot to read.

First I will free Some money by selling orher stuff and see what comes on my path 24 or 105 or 135. About this I have to think.

Thanks again and have great weekend