Author Topic: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery  (Read 6278 times)

Frank Fremerey

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https://www.google.com/patents/US20160368777



https://electrek.co/2017/03/01/li-ion-battery-inventor-solid-state-battery-breakthrough/



Triple the capacity and small cameras will last trough the day. And E cars will go for 1000 Miles without recharge
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BW

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 20:23:10 »
Meanwhile I will make due with the 90 miles range on my e-Golf :) Have a Tesla in order which claims 3 times that range.

Bill Mellen

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2017, 00:19:51 »
Sounds fantastic.  I hope it comes to fruition.
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David H. Hartman

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2017, 01:51:53 »
Meanwhile I will make due with the 90 miles range on my e-Golf :) Have a Tesla in order which claims 3 times that range.

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bjornthun

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2017, 14:39:41 »
Interesting for cars and all sorts of devices.

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2017, 21:06:46 »
So, how long will it take to commercialize the technology, and do we know that it will be commercialized? I guess it may take several years for manufacturers of end user products to switch to the new technology even after it becomes widely available. For electric cars the battery's energy density and safety should be of prime concern. And of course it is important to be able to charge it as quickly as possible, if people are to travel long distances with electric cars.

Akira

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2017, 22:39:09 »
I'm more interested in the fuel batteries.  You don't need to way them to be charged.  You just need to fill them up.
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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2017, 22:59:06 »
I'm more interested in the fuel batteries.  You don't need to way them to be charged.  You just need to fill them up.

Are you referring to hydrogen fuel cells?

I read that they can be filled up in a few seconds (!) but safety may be an issue, also the car will be more complex than a pure electric car, and the infrastructure for hydrogen gas stations is missing in many parts of the world (I read that there is only one location where one can fill up a hydrogen fuel cell car in Finland).

Many of the European car manufacturers don't seem to be pushing hydrogen though I don't know how quickly that could change.

Akira

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2017, 23:01:03 »
Ilkka, I was referring to any type of fuel batteries.  Hydrogen, alcohol or anything will do so long as it works.  Lithium is not safe at all...
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

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CS

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2017, 23:14:31 »
From electrek article: "can operate “from -20 degrees Celsius to under 60 degree Celsius.” So what happens beyond 60 degrees Celsius? That number is far exceeded for car interiors, and very likely battery compartments as well, during our Arizona summers. Interiors can exceed 75 degrees Celsius here. I sure don't leave any photo gear in my car during summers. Many places here in the US have similar summer temps.

The low temp of -20 would also be problematic in many places. OTOH, perhaps they can overcome the current operating temp restrictions.
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Ron Scubadiver

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2017, 00:14:08 »
There is a long way to go with battery technology.  About all solar power is good for today is it puts fossil fuel power plants on standby for part of the day.  There is a reduction in CO2 emissions, but it is very expensive per ton because the solar assets are a duplication.

I see lots of Tesla cars on the road here in Houston.  My understanding is EPA rated range is at 97 KPH with no heat or AC running.  Around here people drive a lot faster, and AC is used at least 9 months of the year.  Charging infrastructure in Texas is minimal. 

Jørgen Ramskov

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2017, 14:44:20 »
Ilkka, I was referring to any type of fuel batteries.  Hydrogen, alcohol or anything will do so long as it works.  Lithium is not safe at all...
But fossil fuel is? :o

There's a lot of research in battery tech and if anyone is able to create something really revolutionary it'll likely be a license to print money :) I hope this is as good as it says, but no doubt there's a long way and quite a few years before it's ready for use.

From what I understand, hydrogen fuel cells are very inefficient.

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Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2017, 19:39:53 »
From what I understand, hydrogen fuel cells are very inefficient.

I guess it depends where you want to see the efficiency.  :) If you need to travel long distance, I have read that Mercedes say it takes a few seconds to fill up their hydrogen fuel cells whereas with Tesla even just partial charging takes 30 min on a special brand specific charging station, that gets you maybe 300km (since 30min won't give you full charge), in winter 200km? Then you wait again for half hour if you have a supercharger around? If you don't have supercharger but a regular charging station then it takes much longer. I have not driven a Tesla but this sounds to be a quite inefficient way to travel (say) 1200km to Lapland. When electric cars stop being a novelty and become common, you need a lot of charging stations to be able to handle the same amount of traffic as today with diesel and petrol cars, without slowing down the traffic.

If you're referring to the process of using electrical power (or worse, fossil fuel) to make hydrogen, then I suppose it is inefficient. With a hydrogen fuel cell car you have the option to charge the battery on the electrical network just like a normal electric car, overnight, or you can fill up the fuel cells and be on your way without waiting a long time. If the battery is of the same size then this should not be a problem (I guess a fuel cell car would have smaller battery, but this is a matter of priorities).

Today the most urgent need to reduce emissions is in cities where the air quality is poor and there are a lot of people breathing that foul air. Yes, it has been worse, but the air hasn't been cleaned as much as would be preferable, especially in big cities like London. However, if you are living in a a moderately sized city, you probably won't have access to a place to park your car so that you can charge overnight, unless you own a house in which case you are quite wealthy. Anyway most people in cities live in flats and that means there are no easy ways to charge an electric car. I don't believe there is much going on to solve this situation, which then opens up the opportunity to cars that use fuel cells because they can be filled up quickly, and natural gas because at least it burns cleaner than petrol or diesel.

From a CO2 perspective I suppose electric cars are better if the electricity itself is produced cleanly, which in many of the less affluent places of the Earth, it is not. But because of the lack of incentive to equip everyone with an opportunity to charge overnight, there won't be any fast switching to electric cars for the masses, I'm afraid. And to have a meaningful effect on climate and city air quality, it would have to involve masses of people switching.

Jørgen Ramskov

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2017, 10:26:39 »
You are correct, that charging takes time, even with Tesla super chargers. They have talked about making them faster and getting the time down to 5-10 minutes to get enough charge to be able to reach the next super charger. Tesla have confirmed they are working on their next generation of super chargers that will be faster. Others have started building fast chargers too, chargers that are able to charge faster than the current Tesla super chargers.

It's also absolutely correct that long distance travel is where EV's are at a disadvantage, but for most people, most days, the range a Tesla provides is more than enough and you don't need a fast charger, you just plug it in at night so every morning you got a "full tank". From what I understand, people rarely need to use the super chargers, they almost always charge at home.
There's certainly a need for new infrastructure (a lot more chargers) in the cities to make it possible for people living in apartments to be able to charge their cars. But what will happen when autonomous cars make their entry? It'll no doubt become quite cheap to rent one, so I could imagine a lot of people would do that instead of owning their own car.

I have no detailed knowledge of fuel cells, but from what I read, there's a lot of problems that makes them far from being a good solution anytime soon: http://energypost.eu/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-competitive-hydrogen-fuel-cell-expert/

I think people will switch to EV's when it makes sense for them, especially economically - money talks. Currently, EV's can't really compete for the masses, but prices are going down rapidly and EV's are much simpler cars compared to ICE cars, making them cheaper to maintain.
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Frank Fremerey

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Re: breaktrough in battery tech by inventor of LiIon battery
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2017, 06:30:24 »
In an Interview Elon Musk said that all Teslas are designed for quick battery replacement.

The future business model for E Cars will be that you own the car but rent the battery.

The battery is standardized and will be replaced in 5 minutes or as fast as a refuel of gasoline.

Efficiency. The average European car needs 80kwh to go 100km. A Tesla needs between 15kwh and 25 kwh per 100km depending on your driving style. The real world prototypes of Hydrogen fueled cars used between 200 and 225 kwh per 100km. These horses are dead.

Plus the efficiency to produce eco hydrogen from solar and wind is in the low one digit percent.

E car and battery replacement are the way to go. It is the second wave and a money making model: battery logistics and charging stations. I like to have a Model 3 too. But currently my life style is more to live in a walkable environment without a car
You are out there. You and your camera. You can shoot or not shoot as you please. Discover the world, Your world. Show it to us. Or we might never see it.

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